Slashdot Mirror
India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database
Oracle Goddess writes "As part of a project to issue ID cards for all 1.1 billion of its citizens, India has announced plans to place information on every single citizen in what will be the world's second largest citizens' database. The government believes the scheme will aid the delivery of vital social services to the poorest people who often lack sufficient identification papers. It also sees the scheme as a way to tackle increasing amounts of identity fraud and theft, and, at a time of increased concern over the threat of militant violence, to boost national security and help police and law officials. 'This could be used as a security measure by the government which leaves migrant workers, refugees and other stateless people in India in limbo, without access to public services, employment and basic welfare,' said Charu Lata Hogg, an associate fellow of the Asia program at Chatham House."
When I read "Your Rights Online: India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database" I was horrified, But then I read further and realized that, while bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound.
Turns out they're only planning on putting some data about the citizens in the database. But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc. and manage them however they wish.
For now at least.
--MarkusQ
Hey dammit, we had the idea of reducing everyone to a number long before you did, and we're the only ones that should have to suffer with that kind of stupidity. You can steal our jobs, but don't steal our retarded government ideas -- as a patriot, I simply must draw the line there!
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Sort of like the IRS? They have how much money you make, where you live, what you own, who you're married to, and who are your kids.
India currently has no real way of identifying a person uniquely - other than a passport. Most formal government identification systems are uncontrolled and easily available in exchange for money. So we dont really have a credit system, no social security number etc. One recent change was PAN cards - a tax identification number.
So this could will help a lot in uniquely identifying a person - especially in a country where there are 28 languages, and where migration of labor has started increasing substantially.
This is also being led by Nandan Nilekini of Infosys fame.
[An estimated 100M id cards will be rolled out in 3 years]
I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it. This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to, say, find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.
Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.
We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy). We can't regulate government into sanity. But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that.
Instead of fighting back at any recordkeeping, we might consider the following:
People like to have something tangible and external to blame. It wasn't my fault; God did it. It wasn't my fault; The 1984 Government did it. Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men. It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.
Futurist Traditionalism
You're already in several federal databases, plus who knows how many databases owned by multinational corportaions. The time to panic has long passed, and apparently you slept through it.
Caveat Utilitor
I think I know how this will work out.
I already have a national ID card which lets me vote, I have a PAN number which tracks literally every economic transaction of significance I make. They know everything about my vehicles and my travel arrangements.
Now, they're going to pay someone to build a system which correlates all this into some useless information. It'll take six years to build & cost tons of money for the government, half of which will end up being passed under the table as kickbacks and the rest with the contractors. Eventually, the system will be built and works fairly decently, but has no information about anyone who does not really volunteer it first-hand.
It'll be done, but completely useless. Some people will become rich and ... as the general attitude will be "I want less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it". A complete waste of tax payer's money, but not quite the invasion of my privacy that most people imagine.
But hell yeah, I'm going to protest. Even their incompetence can't be depended up on :)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
As a citizen of India, I whole-heartedly welcome this measure. One of the benefits (amongst many) is that native Indian citizens will not be marginalized by hordes of illegal immigrants who have crossed the borders of our country. That might sound callous, and yes, it indeed is, but the harsh reality is that many regions of our country have had their demographics completely changed by vast, un-checked immigration from Bangladesh and Burma. These immigrants zealously bring their religion with them - the one with the conspicuous lack of family planning or birth control and outdated ideas regarding education and treatment of women. (I assume you can guess which one)
For a country like India which is already heavily overpopulated with a severe lack of natural resources, such immigration is just breaking the elephant's back. A national identity card system will go a long way to address this severe problem.
I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures. Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here. And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
Will the system be fool-proof? Of course not. It will be hacked - I expect it will be hacked both socially (corruption) and through technology and will definitely be misused a number of times for fake identities. The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.
India is a corrupt democracy.
The more rules and laws are present, the more corrupt the government becomes.
I bet my ass that billions of dollars will be spent to implement it, with doubtful results.
The really criminal and refugees will escape by paying the local officials and politicians.
The poor lower end will get their cards after they pay some money.
The middle class will be harassed since most move around the contry.
The uber-rich will not care.
In short another fiasco to add to the many fiascos called government programmes.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Parent poster is the reason why such a National ID Card is a bad idea for India.
This card will become a means to make people prove their "Indianness".
This is a very bad idea in a nation as diverse and full of competing ethnic/religious/language groups as India.
People should not have to prove that they are Indian.
Making people do so will poison the soul of this nation and cause existing divisions in society to deepen rather than be healed.
But it did work. It's only recently that we have even had the technology necessary to have this kind of (relatively) secure ID card and the databases that would make it actually useful. Somehow, we managed to get along prior to having this capability. Just think of America during the late 18th century. Back then you could commit a crime, skip town, and effectively disappear. Hand-sketched "WANTED" posters were about the most technologically sophisticated method of finding someone. There were no federal crime databases, so you could have a criminal record and move to another state and tell any employer "I have no criminal record" and they would have no effective way to prove otherwise.
Somehow, this didn't break society or cause it to melt down into a mass of anarchy and crime. In fact, the Americans of the late 18th century didn't even remotely have (especially violent) crime like we do today and the people were much more shocked by things like murders and robberies than we are today. They tended to have strong ideals and beliefs, and generally had faith in something greater than making money in order to have children so that they can grow up to make money in order to have their own children... I don't even think that what the faith is in is the point, but rather, that you have it and know because of it that there are higher ideals than immediate expediency.
There is a serious lack of inability to understand a sentiment. The best expression of that sentiment known to me is found in the Tao de Ching, chapter 57:
The more laws and restrictions there are,
The poorer people become.
The sharper men's weapons,
The more trouble in the land.
The more ingenious and clever men are,
The more strange things happen.
The more rules and regulations,
The more thieves and robbers.
Therefore the sage says:
I take no action and people are reformed.
I enjoy peace and people become honest.
I do nothing and people become rich.
I have no desires and people return to the good and simple life.
That this is so nearly impossible for us to imagine today is the real problem. The Founding Fathers understood this and their beliefs about freedom, what we often label "Libertarianism" today in order to make it sound like just another option, embodies this realization when it's correctly understood and not merely parroted or preached.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
You are one of the privileged few who generate enough income to be above the threshold to pay taxes.Not the entire population of India has a PAN number or a ration card or any form of id whatsoever. The central idea of the national id is NOT to track citizens. Its main aim is to counter the major malpractices that thwart the efficacy of public welfare programs, where government provided benefits are usurped fraudulently by intermediate crooks (some of whom are a part of the govt machinery) Its the pessimism of the likes of you that holds us back.The kickbacks and under the table aspects are one of the major reasons why this has been entrusted to Nilekani. Get your facts right. After a long long time we have a government that is trying to sincerely uplift the masses. If you cant support them, at least dont hinder them.