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Standalone GPS Receivers Going the Way of the Dodo
Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that more than 40 percent of all smartphone owners and 80 percent of iPhone users use their mobile devices to get turn-by-turn directions driving down sales of traditional standalone GPS units from companies like TomTom, Garmin and Magellan. During the first quarter, TomTom said it shipped 29 percent fewer GPS units compared with the period in 2008 while Garmin's unit sales fell 13 percent from the previous year. While smartphones are susceptible to interruptions from incoming phone calls and using the mapping features for a long time can chew through battery power, the list of the smartphone's shortcomings is dwindling as some of the latest navigation applications offer voice navigation and take advantage of the phone's always-connected state to offer real-time traffic updates, directions to contacts in the phone's address book and more. 'I've not stopped using a GPS because I never bought one in the first place — they are expensive and inconvenient,' says Steve Weller. 'Now with the iPhone, I will actually use GPS — and the 10 other functions it replaces.' The traditional GPS device companies are trying to adapt, seeking to expand their reach into the smartphone market. TomTom recently announced that it would introduce a portable navigation application for the iPhone that would feature turn-by-turn directions and audio prompts. 'The simplicity of having one device and not needing to pull the Garmin out of my glove compartment is enough,' says Andrew DiMarcangelo. 'I want to get into my car and do as few things as possible.'"
as I don't own a GPS or a Satnav and don't have a GPS in my phone, ipod or anything else.
I use maps and if required a compass and somehow, I don't seem to get lost.
Perhaps this is a slow news day?
was really just a matter of time i suppose.. the only advantage the gps units had over smartphones is the fact they still worked on trips that take out them out of signal range.
If I recall correctly it's been for years that TomTom and Garmin have been offering GPS apps for Symbian phones. That's probably all their business will be about in a few years anyways.
You just got troll'd!
Expensive and inconvenient?
What about the stupid toll tax you have to pay on your IPhone plan or any other smartphone for that matter?
With the downturn in the economy it only stands to figure that gizmos like GPS are falling off a lot of people's shopping lists. I won't deny that some are taking the cheaper route and using an existing device for their nav but how many are using it because they have it and not because they really wanted it to begin with?
Couple this with more and more cars coming equipped with these devices already installed.
Between these three factors I think it's a bit easier to see where the slide is happening. Simply assuming that it's all phone based is short sighted.
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Earlier today, local knowledge and maps were going the way of the dodo. By the end of today, we should have hover-cars and warp drive!
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...will be introducing GPS models that have insane per-minute charges and require payments for making noises and changing screen backgrounds so mobile users will feel more comfortable.
It's hard to use your phone for navigation when your only choice is paying extra for the service provider's half assed navigation app because they disable GPS on all their phones. And they prevent non-official apps from using aGPS too.
I've got a Garmin and love it. It's made to sit easily on the dash, has a bigger screen than a phone, doesn't need cell coverage, and doesn't keep me from using my phone.
The only thing not to like is that the maps eventually get out of date, and that it's a separate cost.
The ideal would be to have it built in to my dash and update itself via Wi-Fi when I pull into the driveway.
I don't want my GPS attached to anything that transmits a signal.
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really, 80% of iphone users use applications that were only released a month ago? fishy statistics. (i.e. made up)
I've never owned a stand-alone GPS, but back in January I picked up a Blackberry Storm, which is the first "smart phone" that I've owned. Frankly, if there is anything about this phone that actually justifies having it, it would most definitely be Google Maps, which can talk to the GPS chip in the phone to find out where I am and were I'm going without having to pay for the Verizon Navigator thing or for a separate GPS device. If it's not too cliche, I'd say that it really has changed my life for the better as I used to get lost all the time (with a 5-digit Slashdot ID at age 25, I clearly don't get out much).
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I still think there is a niche for stand alone GPS. For me, I always use one when hiking and boaters (large water) use them extensively aswell.
Anyone else fed up with audio prompts for turn-by-turn? I want HUDs to finally find their way into vehicles - i mean, they've been in fighter jets for ages, which is just a step away from my Subaru Forester.
Honestly, how expensive can it be to put the video on the dash instead of throwing it on some 3rd-party mount, or in the already-cramped control console? I say that the companies need to make better use of the windshields in cars, and allow me to listen to loud music while I don't know where I'm going.
Never, and I repeat, NEVER agree to pay for GPS "service." You already have in your federal taxes. These ***hole cellphone companies that charge you for GPS are full of themselves. I will never use a phone-based GPS if it costs me a penny extra. Vote with your wallet.
I have an iPhone and a dedicated GPS unit because I don't want my phone triple-tasking as a phone, music player, and GPS unit while I'm driving. I don't trust it to do that many things at once without them tripping over each other at some point.
29 and 13% fewer sales may be meaningful, but may not. How much have sales of other items fallen in this economy? What % of people who would use a GPS had bought one in previous years so didn't need one this year. I've been looking at getting one of these for a few years, and late 2007 was the first time the price & features were what I was looking for. So I could see 2008 being a big selling year for anyone who wanted one and thus 2009 would be a drop off from 2008. (I finally bought my first one 2 weeks ago so there's at least one example counter to my argument but I still think it's possible)
Why would I need to buy another one? My mobile phone gets wear and tear in my pocket, but my GPS stays in the car, until I need to update the maps. So there's really no need to upgrade on a continuous cycle.
And how about digital cameras? And how are mobiles game consoles going to sell a few years from now?
Those are other functions cellphones are replacing. We get more and more functionality crammed into fewer and fewer devices. I guess in a few years we'll have cellphone sized computers with jacks to attach keyboards, monitors and other various periphery so we can use them with sensible input and output devices while we're stationary and still retain some or most of the functions while we're mobile.
What I'd invest in was sensible input/output devices for mobile use. So far, I see very little in that area.
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Yes, TomTom announced they will be making a GPS app.
I also announced that I would be making a turn by turn directions app the day the iPhone SDK comes out.
Now I know I'm not going to finish my project so thats out, but I'm quiet sick of hearing 'announcements' saying 'we've got XXX!!!@$!@%!@#%' and not seeing it for months.
If you go to the TomTom page for the iPhone version you see 'Turn by turn car navigation for iPhone is here'.
I call bullshit. Its not here, if it was here I'd have bought it or at least see it on the App Store.
This kind of bullshit advertising needs to stop, and sites like slashdot need to stop promoting this bullshit until it actually exists.
Press releases and news stories about shit that doesn't actually exist yet need to stop.
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This is gps-evolution. Heres a cloud you might want to fly into. Its a speedlimit cloud.
Android App to alert speeding.
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When I read this article, I freaked out! See, I use a tiny $35 GPS receiver with my Nokia N800. The receiver has 1 button (pwr), a usb charger and a rechargeable battery. That's it. No screen. It connects to other devices via Bluetooth.
These aren't going away, I hope.
I like that as newer GPS tech becomes available, I don't have to swap a complete unit to get it. Recall the excitement over the SiRFstarIII chip a few years ago?
My dad's in his late 60's and I got him a TomTom for christmas. That's what he wanted. It's simple enough for him to use and he doesn't have any problems with figuring it out. The screen is large and easy for him to read. I also know a number of hunters and hikers who go to places were the GPS in cell phones won't work, but a GPS receiver still will.
I just add a Cell phone for him to my plan for fathers day. (He had a crappy pre-paid one in the car for emergancies, but he never used it because it didn't work on the farms.). It has turn by turn naviation, if you want to pay for the feature, but he's never going to use it. First off the screen is too small and he barely uses it now to make phone calls. I think I've called him more than anything.
Now take me. I have an iPhone. I use the turn by turn directions on a regular basis. I have no need to get a Tom Tom. I use my iPhone. There are different markets here that are served by different products. Now, they may not sell as many GPS systems, but they still have their uses.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
There's only so much that "voice guidance" can do, and it never seems to be enough to remove the need to see, or mess with, the map.
I for one will always be a techie... but I will also always be a proponent of the "one device per task" mentality. Do one thing, do it well, and you will always have my patronage. Sure, the iPhone and similar smart phones offer nice GPS features, but it's still not a GPS. Inherent limitations such as battery life and incoming calls will always be a problem because of the nature of the device. The fact of the matter is the iPhone is trying to serve both as a phone and a GPS (among a multitude of other things). There's nothing wrong with this, but it does mean that certain sacrifices must be made to ensure compatible functionality.
I program software for a living - I am very well aware of the trade-offs you make when you change your feature set... and that yes, believe it or not, feature sets can conflict in non-obvious ways. The idea of one device that does everything just as well as a device specifically suited to a particular task is just a pipe dream - and one not supported at all by the history of the consumer market.
I think the drop-off we're seeing in GPS sales could be attributed at least equally as much to a flood of inexpensive GPS devices on the market with no annual fees as it could be the GPS features on the smartphones.
Personally, I own a Garmin and a cell phone and an iPod Touch. Let's see... my cellphone reliably makes calls without being interrupted or unstable (due to 3rd party apps). My iPod actually has a faster cpu than the old iPhone (granted, I hear they've given the new one more juice) and my Garmin has a great big screen that is easy to read and hasn't failed me yet (and it's never run out of battery life since it's powered by my car... and it's never been interrupted by an incoming phone call... go figure!).
Don't get me wrong, I love new technology and the ability to combine multiple functionality under the same device... I just wish we'd all acknowledge that such a device will never be quite as good as having separate devices for each specific functionality. This is just economics 101 folks...
As TFS itself points out, much of the navigate-by-smartphone market is people who wouldn't have bought a GPS anyway. Either they didn't like the idea, or for some it would never even have occured to them... but put it in their hands as an add-on to something they do want, and voila!
The GPS market, meanwhile, has a lot of people who either need and/or are conditioned to believe they need a specialized device rather than an add-on feature to a generic electronic gadget.
So why would stand-alone GPS sales be down? Hmm, I just can't seem to think of any other factor that might be in play
Do they have maps on the phone or is it like Google maps only? And besides subscription (running you around $2,000 over two years), what about those dead areas?
I'll think I'll stick with a dedicated device there, thanks.
OTOH, has any of the GPS manufactures made a GPS app with map for the iPhone yet? If not, why not? So they don't get the profit off of a hardware sale, charge $50 for the app, beyond 30% commission to apple, profit. Besides, the almost-guaranteed data stream of an iPhone could work wonders for the first comer, besides signalling traffic jams for the user, the data collected about the roads people take in their known area could become invaluable and cheap way to collect data, because they're routes locals would choose vs the dumb approach taken now where all roads of a certain type being treated equally by algorithms that ignore many realities that make roads better or worse for certain streches. It could become a real edge to the first GPS manufacturer who could claim and really have smart routing which would have their GPS direct you through town like a real local would navigate it.
Only reason Garmin and TomTom sold hardware was because there was no other way. with the iphone and other cell phones becoming more powerful there is no reason to sell hardware anymore since all the value is in the software. TomTom is going to sell a whole kit for the iphone that includes the software, and a way to mount it on your windshield and plug it in so the battery doesn't wear out
Another key advantage of the smartphone-type GPS? Less theft.
Since most folks carry their phones around with them, the default behavior for these is to remove them from the car everytime you step away. Also, since GPS service is frequently tied to a data plan, as soon as you cancel, that part of the functionality disappears for the thief (plus some types of phones can be blacklisted by the provider, making it even more difficult for the thief to benefit).
I don't know how it works for iPhone apps using GPS but I have Verizon Wireless and I'm not paying an extra $10 a month for VZNavigator when I have a $100 TomTom that does the job perfectly already. If I didn't have a TomTom I would get one since, with some basic math, it "pays for itself" in 10 months. I also have a handheld garmin gps that I use for geocaching. That said, if I could use a smartphone with Verizon without having to pay $30 a month for a data plan and that had a standalone gps receiver not locked out by Verizon, that I could use with 3rd party software from Garmin or TomTom, I would probably do that instead of the handheld but still use the TomTom in the car.
I've owned a Garmin for well over a decade, and I've not seen one app on any phone that could match it for functionality. All the apps-on-phones will show you a map (usually network scraped from Google Maps or the like), but very few will have a single-key "Mark This Spot" (aka Man Overboard), or an easy Waypoint database, or easy Routing between waypoints, or measure useful things like Velocity Made Good (velocity towards target, not velocity in your current heading). I've seen little support for logging tracks to a simple file format you can retrieve for analysis (like geotagging photos from non-phone cameras), because phones and phone apps don't like to support file systems. When GPS apps actually perform better than GPS units at common GPS tasks, then I'll be interested.
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I've never even used a dedicated GPS navigation device at all; I went straight to a general-purpose device in the form of a good Pocket PC (iPAQ hx4700) and a separate Bluetooth GPS receiver (Globalsat BT-338). The iPAQ does a multitude of other useful things when it's not being used as a navigator (PDA, PIM, MP3 player, Wi-Fi VOIP phone, universal remote control, etc.), has a 4-inch screen to rival most of the dedicated devices, and the batteries in the GPS receiver last 20 hours. I also have topographic nav software for it as well, so I can pop the extended battery onto the iPAQ and take the pair on the trail for a weekend backpacking trip. I've also been able to pick and choose from a variety of navigation software to use, which would NOT be an option with a dedicated device. The combined price tag was larger than an equivalent dedicated device, but the combined capabilities are far greater.
Garmin, Magellan, TomTom, Navigon... eat your hearts out.
Eh? Most smartphone GPSes do not work everywhere, compared to a standalone GPS. Secondly, good luck trying to drive in a city like Boston without a GPS - and good luck going on a long trip with the risk of your battery running out (compared to a car GPS with comes with a car charger). I pretty much have to stop using the phone and use only the GPS feature, which defeats the purpose of a phone.
And some of us travel so often that it is a lot easier to have a GPS with us in our laptop bags. You never know when you'll need it...
I do not know, if you've been living in your same little bubble suburb for all your life and go to the same job, then it is possible that a GPS could be irrelevant. Otherwise? The ones on the phones don't even come close.
....says Andrew DiMarcangelo. "I want to get into my car and do as few things as possible."
I don't want to do anything extra, such as:
- using my mirrors
- using my turn signals
- paying attention to traffic
- planning lane changes ahead of time
- thinking
That sounds like most of the drivers around where I live.... :-)
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If 80% of the iPhone users use it for turn by turn directions RIGHT NOW, just what application are they using? If they are referring to the google maps application, it isn't something that you'd use while driving, like a true GPS device does. It's the same as using your web browser to get directions to a location and printing it out, but conveniently the article doesn't mention the percentage of users who use the web browser to print directions. It just simply took a simple scenario, distorted the facts and presented it as evidence.
It also didn't mention other big reasons that people don't buy standalone GPS devices - it's already integrated in the car. A second factor is that buying standalone devices increases the chances of someone breaking into the car to stealing it, often causing more damage than the device is worth.
Anyone telling us that dedicated GPS is going the way of the dinosaur is talking marketing drivel and trying to sell you a phone with a GPS.
The chips sets in the phones I've tried including the one on my Nokia 6220 classic are complete crap compared to my TomTom one XL or my Garmin Etrex Legend Hcx. The dedicated GPS units lock on quickly and continue to work if you take them indoors. (Sometimes they even lock on indoors, which amazes me because I live in a 2 story house). In contrast my phone GPS takes ages, loses the signal easily and to top it off if I want maps or assisted GPS I have to pay for it.
Not to mention the fact that they're more useful in a car rather than attached to a mobile phone (which is illegal to operate while driving a vehicle where I live). I'd expect rather to see them built into cars more and more as standard.
Unfortunately the GPS companies are also trying to make you pay again and again with map updates. Still, phones also require map updates. I'd love to see a GPS come on the market that used open maps (Open maps do exist!) and attached into some standard sized dashboard module. Let the hardware manufacturers make their money honestly on the hardware.
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And here slashdot was just saying that satnav was going to destroy local knowlege!
I have GPS on my phone, but I don't use it, as I suspect it will cost me. Maps are cheap and disposable.
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In some places (like Ontario, Canada where I live) they are outlawing the use of hand-held devices by drivers. I don't think the standalone GPS is going away here, because if it can be mounted on the dash then it's ok.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
You can get a good standalone nav system for $150 for your car, which doesn't end up costing ungodly-per-month.
For those who have a smartphone, yeah, the standalone nav system is dead. But for those unwilling to pay the $40/month more that something like an iPhone costs, the standalone nav systems have an excellent role still to play.
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If the GPS system continues to be maintained, there may still be a niche market for stand-alone GPS devices. I enjoy wilderness treks, often via canoe, and that's one area where a stand-alone GPS makes some sense. In such areas, there's usually no phone reception, and little need to worry about calendars, address books, or other such features. In the backcountry, my primary concern would be battery life, and any device with extraneous features would simply chew through more power faster.
My primary use for GPS is not navigation, however--it's for tracking my route once I return home. Somemay use GPS for wilderness navigation, but unless you are carrying a portable solar charger and/or extra batteries, they have limited uses on long trips. Ideally, I'd love to see self-contained GPS recorders (no screen or UI beyond a "recording" LED, and perhaps a control to allow the frequency of writes to flash) with attached solar cells, so I can simply carry the device and set it out in the sun to charge. That, however, is another topic, about an idea I'll never be able to afford to make happen.
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My take on the issue of the sales drop is that the GPS market was approaching the point of market saturation already before the economic downturn, but the price points for the units had not started their normal trending down due to saturation market pressures.
When the economic downturn hit, the prices of the units were still high, but the market evaporated almost instantly. Had the prices already started coming down prior to the downturn, I think the unit sales would have been slightly better in the long run.
As it stands now, the consumer perception of the devices is that they're overpriced and not a necessity.
I know that I have sat on the sidelines waiting for the prices of the units to drop, and will most likely buy one now that the prices have corrected appropriately.
No need to download 5gb of maps over the cellular line... In fact, I'm sure the admins of these kinds of services would rather you didn't (there are a lot of phones out there).
e.g.
http://europe.nokia.com/explore-services/maps/download
However, even having downloaded the maps to your phone, you can still get realtime services to them; like traffic data over the wireless line, should you choose to use it.
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It's amazing how easy it was to get people to willing provide precise tracking data about themselves.
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The article (and a lot of comments I have read so far) are only talking about casual navigation GPS, as in vehicle GPS units. The current crop of phone GPS solutions is inadequate for backpacking, camping, exploring or basically any outdoor activity that takes you very far away from a cell tower or a charging station.
Most non-dedicated GPS units do not have a compass (the new iPhone 3GS is a notable exception).
Most non-dedicated GPS units have pretty wretched sensitivity and accuracy compared to dedicated GPS units, especially in rough terrain or heavy tree cover. Anybody who does much geocaching will know this. It's no big deal while driving, but it can be very annoying to take the time to claw your way up a steep hillside only to realize you are 100 feet away from where you want to be, on the other side of a deep ravine. Even with driving, inaccuracy can be annoying, which is why TomTom includes another dedicated (more accurate) GPS in the vehicle mount for the new iPhone.
Most phones do not use standard AA or AAA batteries, making it more difficult and expensive to carry spares out away from electrical connections.
Some (most?) phone-based GPS solutions do not even install maps locally on the device, instead relying on cellular communications to download maps live, making them totally useless outside of cell coverage. AT&T's recently announced product for the iPhone is one example.
Rain (or anything else that might get the unit wet). There are many dedicated GPS units available that have various levels of water resistance.
I want a phone that's optimized to be a phone
I want a GPS that's optimized to be a GPS
Combo devices require compromise
Like they say about a duck
It doesn't walk well, swim well or fly well, but it walks, swims and flies.
If so, why is the G-Map turn-by-turn GPS app for iPhone OS 3.0 a roughly 800MB download? Their maps are locally stored. I see on their FAQ that they claim to be the first app with locally stored maps, so perhaps this ability (no need for WiFi) has not been well publicized yet. If the reviews I've read were a little better I'd probably already own a copy.
Also, to be fair, I'm not 100% sure it does the route guidance locally, but if it has the maps local, why wouldn't it?
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Nokia (the biggest phone producer) for example, have their own mapping software (Nokia Maps, or Ovi Maps depending on whether you use the web site or the phone interfaces) and are including it free with all their phones, so, where does that leave tomtom and garmin?
Dead and buried is where. They just don't know it yet.
One of the things I find interesting is that this all started kicking off about 3 years ago, but nobody at Garmin or TomTom really noticed. Was the management asleep or what?
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A good idea. The next step would be something like a HTC Touch HD. Only slightly smaller display, but higher resolution and the phone and a GPS receiver are already integrated and still with all the advantages of your iPAQ (except the infrared port, though).
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In the past, travelling or just going out has meant carrying some combination of my Palm Treo, my Sirius Stiletto, my TomTom, my PSP or my Zune (never all at once, mind you). The iPhone has already made going out and staying on the grid WAY easier for me, so I'm very much looking forward to the TomTom iPhone car mount.
Now the only piece of tech I'll need to keep around is the Stiletto for long road trips.
I'm 100% in favour of this mobile convergence that's going on. If there's one space that *NEEDS* convergence, it's the mobile space.
People are killing them because they can't escape? If only there were a way to find a route to safety.
I've tried using the VZW Navigator app during the free trial on my BB Storm. I've tried using the garmin app for BB's free trial, and I've used Google Maps.
Garmin's app for the BB has the best feel overall, and can be integrated with Panoramio, which is neat. Google's works for finding places or people (Latitude), but doesn't do voice prompts. VZW Nav just looks like a cheap nav app and for the $10 a month, you'd be better off purchasing the Garmin app for $100.
Now here's the big issue... the BB GPS chip works apparently by talking to the cell tower. I've tried turning the feature to enhance the GPS location off, and things like Geotagging my photos won't work when I have little to no cell service, even if the GPS signal is strong. I purchased a cheap $30 16 channel Bluetooth GPS receiver, and when it's paired the GPS feature works with full or no cell service. I'm not sure how many other phones have this happen, and I'm not sure if there's a work around for the BB Storm, but from what I've seen the stand alone GPS units are still the way to go ($200 garmin) as some also work as a hands free device for those states that require that. But if I did have to use a GPS program on a cell phone, the phone better have a large screen, such as the Storm, and have a well laid-out and clean UI such as the Garmin app.. Nothing like the VZW Nav interface.
Thanks for the feature list! A waterproof case like they have for cameras with a capacitative touch-though membrane would do it for the iPhone, though it would have some trouble with sunlight. However, there is an exotic device called a *shade* that solves this. Also, with the new hardware interface features of iPhone OS 3, you can interface with the autohelm. Elevation maps -- that's just a software feature.
Only a utterly complete fool would think the standalone GPS is going the way of the DoDo bird.
Hmm, and you thought your feature list was some sort of insurmountable barrier? Extrapolate much?
I had a berry at the last job with telenav. It was very slick but telenav was a fee every month, plus ridiculous berry charges. I don't have a job that comes with a berry so I have a cheapie cell now. Do I feel some tech lust when looking at the latest smartphones? Sure, but the monthly fee is like a swift kick to the crotch, erasing all interest. No fucking way I'm paying that much. Get back to me when unmetered data plans are part of the basic package.
While the downside with stand-alone GPS receivers is that they only get updated maps once a year, the upside is that there's no recurring fee with them. You pays your admission and you pays no more. And the Garmin Navi's have gotten really frickin' cheap! Reliable, dependable, great maps for the areas I drive in.
I think there will always be a market for stand-alone gps just like there's always going to be a market for bargain basement no-frills cell phones.
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Pros: like others mentioned, my phone is already streaming pandora or playing music and occasionally taking calls/texts- having all of these being done by one device at the same time is a bottleneck -if not of hardware, then certainly of user interface
Cons: my stand alone, dedicated, only has one job to do in it's whole stinking existence, GPS receiver takes *forever* to triangulate. Granted if I sit in one place it works relatively fast, but a large number of times I'm already moving when I need it to come to life. My iphone triangulates on cell towers to get me going "well enough" right away, and still even manages to triangulate GPS faster than my NUVI. This is a frustrating PITA.
Also, the NUVI interface, although highly recommended by my user experience colleagues, is pretty cumbersome. Address entering that requires the STATE and CITY EVERY TIME is frustrating. I would like the menu choices of inputting addresses to a include "near me" option or have it done radially like google maps does.
Obviously, the #1 market for standalone GPS receivers is the OpenStreetMap mapping community, who wander around making GPS traces to create a free world map. I've found that for this job you want the most sensitive and accurate receiver possible, and a standalone unit from Garmin seems to give better quality data than the GPS sensor built into my BlackBerry, especially in city areas where not much of the sky is visible.
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I just picked up a standalone GPS for $88 Canadian (US equiv = $75.50). You call that expensive? And as for inconvenient, WTH are you talking about? You trying to tell us a dedicated machine is more inconvenient to use that an add-on app for a cell phone?
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I prefer using my serial Garmin GPS on the laptop for long road trips or wardriving. The cell does have GPS, but I haven't used it since I found its limitations don't suit my needs. Cell GPS coverage is spotty since it is assisted GPS and I can't seem to poll the phone for use with the wardriving equipment. The cell also doesn't seem to have the accuracy of the serial GPS - the serial version updates faster with new positions.
Finally the Verizon navigation software on the phone was extremely buggy - it crashed every 15 minutes and had to power cycle the phone to revive it every time. At least with GPSdrive+Kismet+gpsd on Linux, I haven't had that problem aside from forgetting to plug the laptop into the ac adapter.
For most of the population though, the phone probably works just fine, and likely better than lugging around a laptop+GPS equipment. For my purposes though, the external GPS makes better sense.
80%? Surely 80% of iPhone users don't have GPS in their phones, considering the original iPhone didn't have GPS...
I own and use both standalone TomTom GPS and a cell phone with intgrated GPS receiver.
The TomTom is way better and faster. It links satellites in few seconds, the phone needs minutes.
It has a touch screen with a very usable UI.
It costs way less than a phone with touch screen and navigation software.
First off, obviously GPS units won't become exctinct. However you will see some major players go out of business as sales will shrink in a major way. Partly because people already have them, partly because of smart phones. Sure they aren't as good, but guess what, mp3s aren't as good as CDs either and how many people still use a sony discman rather than an mp3 player (and this transition started back when home ripped mp3s were horrible with hisses and tweets). Fact of the matter is that smart phones with GPS capability can only hurt stand alone GPS sales. And its going to hurt them a lot. Most only care about getting from point a to b and for as often as most people need them it doesn't even have to do so in the best fashion.
Everything will end up in one handheld device. Inevitable.
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... just like digital cameras have disappeared because of the arrival of camera phones.
Sheesh.
End anonymous moderation and posting on
I've got my wife beside me telling me where to go. And yes, she'll give me turn by turn directions if I need them!
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
I see you just reinvented my Garmin iQue M5...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And in other news, due to the preponderance of cell phones that play music, car audio systems are going the way of the dodo.
What's idiocy is thinking how you like to use a device is how everyone else will want to use one. GPS on my phone might be nice but so is my Garmin. It has a much larger screen, doesn't depend on a cell network to function and I can easily mount it forward in the vehicle to see while driving.
I just love it when some fool reporter tries to push an agenda or tell me how I'm supposed to use a product.
I would be very skeptical of a GPS in my cell phone, as I would expect there to be some kind of fee to use it.
The thing I like about stand-alone GPS devices is you buy them one time and that's it. No recurring fees - the GPS system is free to everyone.
I'm sure if and when they launch a GPS replacement they will try and make it subscription based in order to get the signals.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I can't argue with their sales data, but I concur with the "hogwash" tag. There was a time when I carried a PIM, a Cell Phone and an MP3 player, and rejoiced when I could finally afford a single converged device. It makes sense both from a technological and a practical point of view that we've achieved further convergence to the point that one device can additionally have GPS and games and a camera and video and internet browsing and more. However, there is a ceiling on the eyeballs-to-interfaces ratio that you're going to hit at some point: there's only so many things you can do at once.
On a recent long car trip my "phone" was monopolized as I had it playing music for the whole ride, and my wife frequently used it to surf the net. Occasionally we even took a phone call. In short, because we were already using multiple other features on the "phone," the GPS functions could not be in front of my eyes when I wanted them.
So count me in as someone who does have a mobile convergence device but was nonetheless very happy to have purchased a standalone GPS (my first, a TomTom One XL), earlier this year (ironically right in the middle of their 1st quarter sales downturn).
Some of you already have those cute little shirts on that say disco sucks, right? That's not all that sucks.-Frank Zappa
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1297287&cid=28637303
Seriously, what's with the trend to move from independent, dedicated purpose devices which do their job well to a set of half arsed, low quality implementations locked in to a monthly contract where the phone company has a level of control over their users that would impress the Stasi?
No thank you very much, I'll stick to my separate GPS, digital camera and landline, with a cheap mobile on PAYG for when it's unavoidable. Cell phones don't even work well as *telephones* in my experience, never mind all the other stuff.
It's been a bizarre progression. A few years ago I got a new stereo for the car which included (amongst other things) a navigator with turn-by-turn instructions. It was really expensive. Map updates for this beast are available every two years for a street price of about $150. (List price $270.)
A short time later, I could buy a Garmin (with free map updates) for the cost of just the map updates for my current, car-bound GPS. (You'd think the manufacturer of my unit would respond to this market reality by lowering the price of their updates. Nope.)
But I don't have to buy a Garmin, because a few months ago I acquired a free application on my Blackberry that gives turn-by-turn instructions and also has free updates.
I can see the appliance manufacturers moving to software solutions to survive. I hope they realize that ease of use is paramount. I've rejected a few apps because they were too annoying to program.
But I suspect there will always be specialist applications for GPS that require an appliance. For when you need a screen bigger than 3 inches wide, or you're away from cellular service.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
SINGULARITIES!!!
The GPS in my HTC Touch (Windows Mobile 6) locks on within 5 seconds and even semi-works in tunnels since it uses AGPS constantly.
I have had TomTom installed on it for over a year, and it works like a charm. I sold my GPS a week after I got this phone and have not looked back.
HTC Titan with GPS Chip
I've had the HTC Titan (Sprint Mogul PPC-6800) phone since it came out and it has a real GPSOne chip inside for aGPS satelite reception and not just cell tower ID triangulation for fake GPS. Before that I had the HTC Apache (Sprint PCC-6700) that required a separate GPS Receiver connected by Bluetooth and that also worked great since I only had to turn on the receiver when navigating.
Mount and Charger
I use the cheap Arkon CM929-S phone mount to keep my phone in-front of me connected to an air-vent while I drive and also the Motorola Mini-USB Car Charger for keeping my phone powered up during long trips.
TomTom Navigator 6 and 7
I've been using TomTom Navigator version 6 and now 7 installed on this phone running Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.0, 6.1, and soon 6.5. I've used my phone to navigate here in the US, Canada, and also in Europe without any problems at all, except for having to copying the 500MB maps to my storage card before I go, since I only had a 1 GB storage card. If I had a large capacity SDHC storage card then I could keep all the maps on it for the entire world.
PPCKitchen BuildOS and Radio ROM Firmware
I've been taking advantage of the phone customization software such as PPCKitchen BuildOS software for creating and loading customized and updated versions of Microsoft Windows Mobile operating system builds on to my phone that allowed me to go from 6.0, to 6.1, and now to 6.5. I've been updating the Radio ROM firmware on my phone with the instructions from XDA Developer Wiki page for HTC Titan to the latest releases to enable GPS functionality on this phone since the original release of the phone did not have the Radio ROM firmware to allow interfacing with the GPS chip until Sprint released it a year after the phone became available.
Little Inconveniences
Since Sprint uses the US only CDMA network cell phone standard I couldn't use my phone in Europe to make calls but I still retained the full GPS functionality. On top of this we use Google Maps software loaded on these phones for locating stores and saving them as contacts so we can then use TomTom to navigate to those contacts. Everything works great except when Google Maps decides to be lazy and not save the zip-code in the address in the contact or when the address line in the contact includes additional numbers such as apartment or suite then TomTom gets confused thinking those are street numbers since they match European address standards such as "16 Main Street Suite 2" to "16/2 Main Street". We then have to manually edit the contact to remove the apartment or suite number and add the zip code, it is a pain and we are waiting for TomTom to fix their software since this bug existed sine version 6 and now with 7.450.
Convenience Through Convergence
My wife also uses the same exact phone since we share the same phone plan and company and she loves the ability to be able to take the car and go anywhere she wants with her friends without worry
I totally agree with the moving to fewer devices... I currently have a TomTom, Blackberry Storm and a Zune... each has hits own 'cable' now.. freaking BB changed the USB port from the mini-usb to something newer/different.. Zune, well they always were different and the TomTom is using the simple and tested mini-usb...
Anyway, I found that the music capabilities of my Blackberry Storm are good. Also, the GPS works well (Blackberry Maps and Google Maps are all I need really) and lugging around 3 devices and 3 cables has me using my phone more and more as an all in one device... Purchased a cradle/mount for my Storm and now I just use it for travels and its worked out really well... even using the Storm as a geocaching device with the BlackStar app... who needs anything else ?!?!?! :)
I still use my garmin for laying down tracks in the woods while on the mtb. To do that with the blackberry I'd have to buy special software, and also buy a subscription to it. Screw that. The garmin is a bit more robust and waterproof too, and if I lose or break it, I'm out just a GPS vs. an expensive phone and primary means of communication.
Drawback is the old garmin downloads quite slow over serial cable. Maybe I'll look at the trimble outdoors after all, assuming I can upload tracks from it to gpsvisualizer.
3G phones have a data-rate fast enough to be able to use Google Maps or equivalent, but if you lose data connectivity, you lose you mapping. In addition, if your 3G signal happens to fall-back to GPRS, you can actually be driving faster than the map segments can download - not fun.
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A phone is not going to replace my Garmin, because there are no charts (or NMEA). For a boater, that could be life-and-death (MV Queen of the North, no-one checking GPS), or thousands of dollars damage, or maybe just being stuck for 8 hours waiting for the tide (been there, done that, mostly pre-GPS or without the right chart). Google terrain won't cut it because it doesn't show enough detail underwater. Granted, Garmin/Magellan etc. could licence their charts to the phone makers, and the best GPS (or camera) is the one you have with you. On the other hand, for wandering around the city or just breadcrumbing a hike, a smartphone can replace a pocket GPS, plus it's networked. I use my Nokia tablet with (cached) Google Maps in Maemo Mapper, and push routes to it from my PC. A big-screen set would be safer in the car, though (less need to take eyes off the road and fiddle with tiny buttons) and a waterproof/vibration-proof set would be better on my motorcycle (where a GPS sure beats messing with paper maps!)
you believe in -1 gods ?
I find it funny that you "never even used one" and then went for a cumbersome setup citing a weekend backpacking trip. A Garmin outdoor unit also lasts ~20 hours, on 2 AAs that is, can easily be read in bright sunlight, is rugged and waterproof (!) to boot, not to mention the neat extras like a barometer to improve accuracy. I can see the benefits for city or in- car navigation with cell phones, but outdoors, not a chance.
Right, because no one ever drove in Boston before they invented GPS. Look, I agree that GPS units are really, really handy, but even way back at the dawn of time, in the eternal mists of the past, even before... the Internet (cue trumpet blast)... people still managed to drive with these things called maps. Which you bought pre-printed on a substance called "paper". Even in Boston.
I'll agree that a standalone unit is probably going to be better than a phone GPS, for much the same reason that a standalone camera is better than a phone camera. But that doesn't mean the phone-based versions of these things aren't pretty damn handy.
The iPhone app store has a marine navigation application that handles your location (including locally stored charts). There are also several apps that do tide/current prediction. The iPhone has other problems for the marine navigation function (in my view, it's not rugged or water-resistant enough), but it's certainly got the FEATURES to do the job.
I think rather than GPS devices going obsolete, they'll transform into car computers which can do things like radio, play mp3s, give directions, browse the web, play videos. Sure, half those things shouldn't be done by the driver, but there are legitimate use cases for each. If it had wifi, it could auto-sync to your home mp3 collection (iPods are nice for portability, but usually it's pretty clumsy to use them in a car). Additionally, they'll link to your cell phone, so you don't even need to take it out of your pocket.
Phones can do these functions, but they don't really integrate into cars very well. A good phone will have a small screen, so it's not huge in your pocket, which is not a feature you want in an in-car GPS device. A phone GPS could be mounted for easy viewing, but it will still have a small screen. A car will likely have easily accessible music functions, which you then can't use very easily with your phone. Some cars have iPod docks, but that wouldn't necessarily work well for GPS. Not to mention if you want to use these functions from your phone, you'll need to take it out first.
You can pry my TomTom from my cold dead hands. There's no way I'm going to depend on my phone for this....yet.
Aviation is where GPS rules. Right now, the FAA is working on shutting down some of the old radio navigation beacons because GPS is so much better. Garmin also has a big presence in aviation with both hand-held and panel mounted units. Their new hand-held has GPS, weather provided by XM satellites, and terrain elevation.
Granted, this is a niche market - you could buy a small stack of laptops for the price of one of the hand-held units and a large stack of laptops for the price of a panel mount unit.
un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
I have a Garmin GPSmap 76CSx, purchased it a year or so to aid with sailing as I liked the blue chat maps. It's a great device, waterproof, mapping is good, ease of use is good. I also use it on land as well.
I've also got an iPhone 3GS and the GPS is pretty good, but if you don't have internet access then lookups on things are not going to work, and with a dedicated GPS that has the mapset installed on it, that's not a real big problem - of course items not being totally up to date could be an issue.
If Garmin decided to have an iPhone viewer and enabled me to use my existing maps then I would seriously consider ditching my 76CSx. Of course a waterproof case for the iPhone would be required as well, but that is probably available.
I am going to look at Navionics as I believe they do have an iPhone viewer app, and they also do marine mapping, so perhaps switching to a different map provider may be an option to go totally iPhone.
They need to work with the auto manufacturers to make the GPS an integral part of the car like AC or the car stereo. Turn-by-turn directions are most useful while driving (when else to you really use it.) Why have to rebuy a GPS app everytime you switch your phone provider or phone?
I guess I'm in a niche market then.
One thing that I've not seen discussed is a POI (Point of Interest) database. There are tons of these on the Internet that you can download and then upload to your GPS unit. As a Volunteer firefighter, I developed a POI database of every Fire Department in my state for use by the Fire Marshal's office. They are uploading them to their GPS units in the Investigator's vehicles. In addition, I'm developing a POI database of every fire hydrant in my department's jurisdiction in order to make water-supply location much easier. Then we will purchase a GPS unit for each fire apparatus and use the database regularly.
Just a couple weeks ago, we used GPS units in a very rural area with heavy tree cover to assist in finding a mentally handicapped person who had wandered away from home. With no reliable cell signal, and with dense forest, we would have been lucky to have been able to use a smartphone to track or log our movements. Once we layed out the search area and followed the GPS data, we were able to find him and return him to his family.
Along those same lines, we have landed the local aeromedial helicopter in rural areas using coordinates from our handheld GPS unit.
If you are only using your GPS for turn-by-turn directions, you are only scratching the surface. These units offer so much more. Oh, and did I mention that a GPS unit doesn't require a data plan?
I for one use a standalone unit because:
1.you get superior reception (my new Garmin gpsmap 60cx can get a reception on forest trails, under trees, and even inside my house at certain places) ... both which can be used to locate you at least... ... I know nokias have garmin maps (which is the only map you can get for Costa Rica with full routing).... but my iphone has no maps for example, and my last Nokia (business edition expensive trash) is so unreliable and crashing that I would not trust that at all with telling me my location
2. you get 12+ hours operation on 2 AA batteries
3. you can get rugged models (water proof, shock proof - my iphone would get trashed withing 1 hour of offroading)
4. you do not share the device with phone calls, music etc), and that also means that you still have a phone if you trash your gps and you still have a gps if you trash your phone on the trail
5. you get maps
6. accessories: you get mounts for bikes, cars, boats, you can connect antennas, .. so ...
7. You can link it to a pc, pocketpc, on any OS that can read serial data (use it just as an external module)
8. Cell phones suck battery like crazy when they are out of service are and are trying to reconnect - where I need a GPS there is usually no reception
Well... for me the GPS is for my dive bag and my offroad bike, and take it to explore new trails with my wife and my dogs ...... so I need a rugged standalone unit....
If I lived in a big city I might just use my cellphone , but out here this is not a good idea
With the economy in the toilet, it seems that this drop in sales could easily be caused by the economy and not about ANYTHING else. Sure, some people may use a phone version, but TomTom Navigator 6 for smartphones was there too, and most people wanted to go with the larger dedicated device just because of the screen size alone, plus getting proper support.
When the economy recovers, I am sure that sales will pick back up again.
I've long considered a 4 inch display a functional minimum. I chose the hx4700 because of the size AND the fact that it's a true 640x480 display, not 320x240. Only a few others like the Dell Axim x51(?) were comparable in that regard. (HP didn't actually USE the full res, instead cutting it back down in half by pixel-doubling; it took a third-party hack to enable use of the native resolution... which is REALLY tiny even at 4 inches.)
Does the M5 have both SD and CF slots? How much RAM and ROM? Does it have a 4 inch 640x480 native resolution display? Can you run Windows Mobile 6.1 on it like I am now on the hx4700?
Nope. There's a reason the hx4700 was the most expensive Pocket PC on the market at the time. It was actually better than everything else.
which way the Dodo would have gone if it had used GPS ...
You know what they say about opinions. They're all fabulous!
I'm sure that the writer of the article could have wasted time suggesting that this was "as opposed to Personal Navigation Devices such as those used by the typical consumer while driving to the Grand Canyon on vacation", but any reader with a quarter of a brain should have been able to read that without the print being involved.
Wish I could mod you up. This the point the GP misses. All the scenarios he mentions are niches, which probably will not see the GPS being replaced by smartphones in the near future.
GGP also misses the key point of a "trend". Standalone units might be more specialized today, but phones evolve fast.
The "hard" problems are multitasking and battery life. Separate devices allows you to browse your address book while keeping an eye on the map. Ask for directions over the phone while plotting it into your GPS.
I lost my sig.
You obviously have not tried to drive in Europe trying to find a small hotel in the middle of the old town then! With tiny one way streets in old town centres - lot of one way streets and dead ends. Road signs in a different languages and scripts (Greece, Turkey, Slavic regions etc)
I think the article is correct, in that people will no longer want to buy TomToms. However, what I think the future of such apps (standalone or otherwise) is in advertizing. You get the GPS device for free, but it will tell you when you're passing a McDonald's (in case your kids were dozing and missed the sign), what special offers are available in the stores you're passing, etc. Basically, it's google's business model expanded to the GPS computer. Maybe google should just buy up TomTom.
Let's put the genes back in Genesis.
I don't know about anyone else, but my standalone Magellan better allows for "doing as few things as possible" when I get into my car.
Let's take the simplest of GPS operations: Getting the GPS unit up and running and displaying a map with my current location on the screen.
My BlackBerry:
* Unlock the keyboard
* Type in the password if it's been long enough since I used it last
* Scroll to my "downloads" folder
* Scroll to Google Maps or whatever other GPS app and start it
* Place the BlackBerry in my windshield mount
* (Maybe) plug the charging cable in
My Magellan Maestro:
* Turn on car.
This might be a little simpler on an iPhone. For example, maybe you could put your GPS app on the first page of your home screen, so you just have to unlock the keyboard, start the app, mount it on the windshield, and (maybe) plug in the charging cable. Still sounds like more things to do when you get into the car.
Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
No, it doesn't have all those flashy features, but you had to hack and upgrade your ipaq to do what the M5 was designed for.
Most smartphones use AGPS (assisted GPS) which require a data connection to a cell phone tower to function. They basically offload the processing of the received satellite signals to a remote server with more horsepower. No data connection, no satellite fix. Other smartphones rely on timing signals or satellite location data from a cell tower to get its initial fix. The iPhone does use AGPS rather than regular GPS, but I'm not sure what augmentation it uses. Regardless, since most smartphones won't have GPS functionality away from cell towers, that means they cannot replace stand alone GPS units for hikers, boaters, and others who routinely go where there is no cell service.
Hack? Upgrade? Bullshit: I bought the BT-338 and loaded the Tom-Tom software. Do you actually call that hacking? If you think that's hacking, I guess the really difficult things I do with that and other hardware must be sufficiently indistinguishable from magic to you, huh?
I can also do a helluva lot more with my "hacked" device, as I described, than you can do with your one-hit-wonder M5.
dude, seriously, remove the fucking pinecone from your ass. some people just want to buy a gadget that does what they want when they buy it. not everyone is one of you fucking twats who has to buy gadget A and add stuff to it so it now includes the features of gadget B. this is why linux isn't taking over on the desktop, because holier than thou fucks like you command that something out of the box isn't good enough, you have to DO something to what you hvae for it to be useful, you're never happy unless youve had a hand in something. gp has a good point, go masturbate into the cf slot on your ipaq.
I never TOLD YOU to buy the same things I did. I described how *I* solved the problem, and why I solved it that way. The real fucking twats here are you, Anonymous Coward, and CompMD: it's both of you who have criticized MY method of solving the problem, NOT the other way around. CompMD criticizes my approach, so I defend it, and then you jump in, fucking twat that you are, and berate me for defending my method when criticized?
It's rare that I feel the urge to use this combination of words, but go fuck yourself, because sperm production is about all the usefulness you seem to have, and we certainly don't want your disease spreading.
TomTom has made their software available for Windows Mobile devices for as long as I can remember. I definitely wouldn't be caught without it on my Touch Pro2, it's an absolute godsend. Guess they're ahead of the market in this game, at least in the UK.