Slashdot Mirror
Twitter, Facebook DDoS Attack Targeted One User
An anonymous reader writes "A Georgian blogger with accounts on Twitter, Facebook, LiveJournal, and Google's Blogger and YouTube was targeted in a denial of service attack that led to yesterday's site-wide outage at Twitter and problems at the other sites on, according to a Facebook executive. The blogger, who uses the account name 'Cyxymu' (the name of a town in the Republic of Georgia), had accounts on all of the different sites that were attacked at the same time, Max Kelly, chief security officer at Facebook, told CNet News." Here are user Cyxymu's LiveJournal Google cache and LiveJournal account (unreachable at this writing). Larry Magid writes on CNet that this individual blogs about independence of a breakaway region of Georgia. Macworld has some speculation in other directions on the motivations behind the DDoS attack.
Update: 08/07 19:52 GMT by KD : Cyber attacks on Cyxymu are not new. For over a year Evgeny Morozov has been calling attention to him as the first digital refugee.
Update: 08/07 19:52 GMT by KD : Cyber attacks on Cyxymu are not new. For over a year Evgeny Morozov has been calling attention to him as the first digital refugee.
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1328011&cid=28976247
Interesting...
(yes this is a dupe of my firehose post...I thought once articles were on the front page they were no longer in the firehose)
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Any guesses as to how many more people will start following "Cyxymu" solely because of this attack? It's called The Streisand Effect, Russia, and it's very real.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Really, he's the only guy with an account on Twitter, Facebook, LiveJournal, Blogger and YouTube?
So if you ever hear of a simultaneous attack on SlashDot and Twitter... that's aimed at me. See, I have accounts on both sites, so clearly...
Here in capitalist America whole country use Twitter to get informed. In Soviet Russia, Twitter shut down whole country to get informer!
In Georgia and Russia it's Twitter that shuts you down.
So immediatly following a true DDoS attack on these sites you provide links to them so that they can then be \.'d this...is...awsome.
I smell a rat. Big one, whiskers thick as cat5.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
I'm interested in how each different network will handle the situation. We have moved to centralization on the Internet, and I'm curious as to whether any of these places will give in to the attackers demands, such as disabling or removing the atackees account.
Sig: I stole this sig.
The coordinated Internet attack against a computer account owned by a Georgian is likely not a coincidence as the attack occurred precisely on the day marking the 1-year anniversary of this show of Russian military force. For that same reason, that a pair of Russian submarines loaded with nuclear missiles were recently patrolling off the East Coast of the United States is not a coincidence.
There has been numerous DDOS attacks over the years by Russia's youth group the "Nashi" but mainly against the ukraine. I'm sure in a year or so when the media dies down some crazy Putin funded mother Russia group will come out and admit to it.
Yesterday, he was the target of a DDoS attack. Today? The target of the Slashdot Effect. Poor guy will never have a functioning social networking page again...
Here is the list of active Iranian opposition to coup government that got attacked yesterday as well:
http://www.facebook.com/mousavi
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zahra-Rahnavard-/79757303129
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Mirdamadi-/129589377387
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Abdollah-Ramezanzadeh/104800577446
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behzad-Nabavi-/112121917445
source of list: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/news-current-events/27068-mousavis-facebook-deleted-4.html#post60410
Obviously this user is used to DDoS and is quite aware of being at the wrong (could say both sides are wrong) end of them.
For that same reason, that a pair of Russian submarines loaded with nuclear missiles were recently patrolling off the East Coast of the United States is not a coincidence.
Doesn't make sense. Submarines spotted on the other side of the globe, not even on the day of the 1 year anniversary sounds very much like a coincidence. You think they were gonna nuke twitter servers or somethin?
Nuclear POWERED, not nuclear ARMED. If you read the source and not the blog refering to the source you'd know this already. "Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html
http://www.worldsoccerbars.com
Odd, CNN had reported they were Akula-Class Attack submarines and specifically pointed out that they did not carry nuclear warheads. I think this article is sensationalizing the fact that they are nuclear-powered by using the more vague term "nuclear-armed" in order to make people think that they're boomers.
If the location of Russian Boomers was world news while on patrol they wouldn't be a show of force they'd be a sign of weakness as the whole point is you have to fear either a first strike without time to respond or a retaliatory strike from a target you can't take out in your first strike because you can't find it.
Knowledge of where that launch platform is (which means you can bet your ass it'd being shadowed by an attack sub of our own) would invalidate the threat.
It occurs to me that if you're saying something important, and want people to see it, the best way on the internet is to manufacture a Streisand Effect on yourself. Pretend that someone wants to muffle you. And do it by crashing major sites.
Not saying that's what happened here, but it's definitely a possibility.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Well its kind of badass to be the sole purpose some of the world's largest websites got beaten offline.. Aww who am I kidding, the jerk from high school still wins.
The coordinated Internet attack against a computer account owned by a Georgian is likely not a coincidence as the attack occurred precisely on the day marking the 1-year anniversary of this show of Russian military force. For that same reason, that a pair of Russian submarines loaded with nuclear missiles were recently patrolling off the East Coast of the United States is not a coincidence.
Whoa! I better put on my tinfoil hat before continuing to follow the linked article!
It was my understanding that the pair of subs were not capable of carrying nuclear missiles. Can you provide source to the contrary?
>had accounts on all of the different sites that were attacked at the same time
That pretty much describes a large number of users that use YouTwitFace. Maybe YouTwitFace was the target...
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
They are Akula class attack submarines, which in a war would primarily be used against submarines and ships. They are quite possibly armed with nuclear weapons, but not ICBMS. The big nuclear missiles are on Typhoon class subs that are, presumably, drifting around undetected somewhere in the Barents Sea.
Just as a follow-up, the subs are nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed as indicated in your linked article to the guardian. They are Akula class subs
From Reuters: "Akula is the NATO code name for the Nerpa submarine, which has been in service since the mid-1980s. They are armed with torpedoes, cruise missiles and can carry underwater missiles."
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5740DV20090805
Cruise Missiles != Nuclear Missiles
Are you sure Russia attacked first? According to my own understanding of the situation, it's Georgia that invaded South Ossetia, a territory that declared independence from Georgia since the mid-1990's and has many Russian citizens within its territory. You can understand Russia's interest in those two territories.
So it's not as simple as declaring "Georgia's territory is sacrosanct therefore Georgia should be united".
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Those subs were most likely not carrying nuclear missiles. The Guardian article sites a NYTimes article which states that the subs were nuclear powered not nuclear armed. So clearly the objective is to attack Twitter by rolling a nuclear sub on it. Too bad they were on the wrong coast. Those nutty Russians!
$Obligatory comment on the uselessness and irrelevance of Twitter.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
And tyrants as always don't much like anyone else's freedom.
All the more reason to oppose tyranny. Wherever it is found.
Now to get the Internet to recognize tyranny as damage and route around it...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
He is up to 515 now. Keep it going! :)
Further, the Kremlin has recognized the occupied territory -- Abkhazia and South Ossetia -- as independent nations although the entire family of Western nations has not.
On a side note, why Abkhazs and Ossetians, nations with distinct language, culture and history from both Georgians and Russians, have such a bad luck (especially compared to Kosovo citizens)?
Just because they happen to align themselves with Russia?
Coding etudes
Where are the slashdot stories about netsplits?
The twist in the tale seems to be that whilst attempting to silence Cyxymu they have now made him and his blog posts world-famous. His name has entered Googles Hot Trends as a rising search. Facebook and Twitter DDoS - Cyxymu
if the usa invaded isla de la juventud?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_de_la_Juventud
because havana has political disagreements with the population there
oh, the people of south ossetia have disagreements with tbilisi? gee, fucking wow. so the people in south ossetia are like outlying regions in every goddamn country on the planet? awesome rationale for russian military invasion
russia is engaging in neoimperialism. to frame russian aggression against a small neighbor as some sort of defensive posture is the biggest pile of steaming bullshit imaginable. biden is absolutely right: russia is stuck in the 19th century. seriously, russians: what the hell is wrong with your country? why are you so goddamn ultranationalistic? why do you favor "strength" over justice? putin walks around with his shirt off, russians swoon, and the thuggish crimes of the veritable mafia that runs that country are forgiven
i now await my complete psychological deflections and projecting on others: more tired typical anti-americanisms when RUSSIA is the one engaging in military aggression (its the usa's fault, obviously, when russian tanks roll, obviously!), and other such completely intellectually incoherent attempts at justifying what is nothing more than obvious naked russian imperialistic aggression on a small southern neighbor
sorry if i sound so critical of russia. easy solution: just come find me and drive an icepick into a brain, pour some polonium in my tea, or dose my food with dioxin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky#Assassination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#Dioxin_poisoning_controversy
for daring to question oh so unquestionable mother russia. or just shoot me in the street, like you do any other russian journalist who dare criticize the rationale and thinking of the strict party line of the dumbest ultranationalist russian thug, right?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/05/russias-gangster-state/
heaven forbid a little self-critical introspection might actually result in a better russia, right?
russia is a pathetic thugocracy: "strength" over justice
that kind of "strength" will of course result in the weakest russia that will ever be, that will make the humiliation of the russo-japanese war look like a pride building exercise, mark my words russia. not that russia will ever find that out and correct its course. because criticism of russia is a crime
russia: self-criticism is the way to a better russia. only the psychology of a thug is antagonistic to this idea. and so without such introspection, you get the brutal thug life you deserve
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Perhaps they don't know who he is.
but also,
(Cruise Missiles != Nuclear Missiles) != No Nuclear Warheads
some countries were also capping torpedoes with Nukes, IIRC.
What if several parties tried to do a (maybe if in isolated form, dumb) DDoS the same day ? Maybe a lot of social sites have frequently tries to DoS them, and maybe they usually can resist the attack. But if yesterday they got several attacks at once for different reasons the effect could have been visible to us at last.
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.
Wait - they can't figure out who the guy is in meatspace based on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and blogs, but have the ability to take down a number of the world's largest websites? Sites that are designed for massive usage?
The sole piece of evidence that I'm seeing cited by the news organizations is the following sentence in the CNET story:
The blogger, who uses the account name "Cyxymu," (the name of a town in the Republic of Georgia) had accounts on all of the different sites that were attacked at the same time, Max Kelly, chief security officer at Facebook, told CNET News.
In other words, "Max Kelly said so."
How on earth can he with confidence make a statement like this? I'm not asserting that he's wrong. I just really want to know what the evidence is that convinces him that he's right. What, were tens of thousands of machines just accessing this one guy's profile?
Has anyone else read more on this, or have any sources or insight?
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept, but people can lie on the internet. Also, proxies.
The big nuclear missiles are on Typhoon class subs that are, presumably, drifting around undetected somewhere in the Barents Sea.
Of course that is except the one which that nice Scottish-accented Lithuanian captain handed over to the US in the early nineties.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
I'm sure there's some small-town nobody somewhere in the continental us, or some native in the northwest territories who also has accounts on these sites.
OMG russia is after THEM!!!
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Can someone please explain how an attack like a DDoS can target a single account, or even a subset of accounts on a large site like twitter or facebook? I clearly must be missing something here, because I figured these people host multiple accounts on a given server, and probably mirror all accounts across multiple facilities.
It's not like Facebook has a separate server for each user account... Or when I create my facebook account, is some sysadmin at Facebook ordering another T1 pipe from the ISP?
you think they were gonna nuke twitter servers
One could only hope...
Oh, and don't everyone go check it out at once--we wouldn't want Slashdot blamed for the next DDoS attack on this fellow's account.
No, people would blame Google and Yahoo! when a bunch of American, Canadian, British, Irish, Australian, and New Zealander users start hitting his Twitter page through the Language Tools and Babel Fish pages.
I think it's a commentary on twitter .... while people talk about twitter in terms of the iranian revolution [sic], it's primarily overhyped retarded shit. Also, the OP was expecting to get laid by virtue of his first post.
The real fact is that people like to be shit to each other. Russia and Georgia was just a variation on the theme
Hence the reason for many Western nations silence on certain parts of the issue. Spain has the Basques to worry about, Canada has Quebec (and possibly Alberta), it's a sticky mess we're getting into if we open our mouths.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't though...
Julie Moult is an idiot.
According to a report by the "Times Online" and another report by guardian.co.uk", today is the 1-year anniversary of the Russian invasion of Georgia.
Aug 8 Dustin Hoffman born in Los Angeles, 1937
Aug 8 Montenegro declares war on Germany, 1914
Aug 8 Richard Nixon resigns the US presidency, 1974
Aug 8 The Great Train Robbery -- $7,368,000, 1963
The above suggests to me that it's American Neocons seeking to regain the power of the presidency, working in conjunction with Serbian terrorists angry at their Montenegrin brothers along with a few German Nazis still fighting the good fight, a plot funded by the money stolen in 1963, and spearheaded by none other than than Dustin Hoffman.
because pre-soviet history allows for excusing any crimes russia commits
additionally, america does bad things. therefore, its ok for russia to do bad things
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I found this strange (but interesting) account of what really happened (I must post as Anonymous): ... âoecabalâ consisting of some of the most powerful people and corporations in the United States are behind the deadly rampage which occurred in the US city of Pittsburg, where three women were killed, and nine wounded, in a massacre blamed on an âoeanti-social, woman hatingâ man named George Sodini [photo top left].
However, according to these FSB reports, the depiction by the US propaganda media of George Sodini as âoeanti-social and woman hatingâ could not be âoefurther from the truthâ in describing what Russian Intelligence files profile as âoeone of the most important financial computer wizardsâ who was so âoedeeply entrenchedâ in the current Global banking collapse, and which many FSB experts believe it was his, Sodiniâ(TM)s, computer program that has, in fact, engineered the theft of Trillions of Dollars in what was once the American peoples wealth.
Interesting to note in these files about Sodini was that he was educated by one of the most prestigious, and private, of the American elites academic institutions called Carnegie Mellon University, and which was established in 1900 by the Scottish American industrialist (otherwise known as Robber Barons) Andrew Carnegie, who aside from the billions he pillaged from the American people was also one of the group of US industrialists ( known as the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club) responsible for the 1889 Johnstown Flood which killed over 2,200.
Even more interesting about Sodiniâ(TM)s being educated by Carnegie Mellon University (and which provides us an important clue into this âoemassacreâ) is this institutions decadeâ(TM)s long research into human mind control, and which began in the early part of the 20th Century when the Mellon Family (The Carnegie family merged with the Mellon family Institute to create the Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh in 1967) made the âoeamazing claimâ that sodium fluoride prevented tooth decay, a âoediscoveryâ that literally turned âgarbage into goldâ(TM).
The Mellon family had amassed their vast fortune through their ownership of the American Aluminum Company (Alcoa), which was the largest producer of the waste toxin, sodium fluoride, which, up to their new âoediscoveryâ had no value other than being an effective rat poison, but was such an environmental hazard of great public concern the cost of their having to dispose of it would have, effectively, bankrupted them.
Today, Sodiniâ(TM)s alma mater, Carnegie Mellon University, remains in the forefront of mind control research, and as we can read as reported by the Popular Science News Service:
âoeThe Force, it appears, may be with us sooner than expected. A study in the journal Nature this spring all but confirmed the latest evolution in the hard-charging, heady field of cybernetics: Monkeys can control machines with their brains. In the experiment, conducted by neuroscientists at the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University, a pair of macaque monkeys with electrodes implanted in their brains were able to quickly learn how to operate a robot arm as though it were their own, successfully fee ding themselves more than half the time.â
And being at the forefront of mind control research has been very lucrative to Carnegie Mellon University too, and who in just the past 8 years alone has received over $300 Million in US Military and Intelligence Agency contracts, the majority of them, of course, classified.
Now from his âoetrainingâ at such a storied institution, Sodini, these reports continue, was âoerecruitedâ by none other than the wealthiest of Americaâ(TM)s current Robber Barons, and richest man in the World, Bill Gates, and who upon hiring Sodini placed him at the prestigious Pittsburg law firm of Kirkpatrick & Lockhart Nicholson G
Lets not exaggerate the issue here. Yeah it sounds good to always bring up the Streisand effect but most need to remember it really only works when the subject is famous. It would be an interesting small bit of research to poll all those who read the story and/or replied to it to see how many could recall the name five minutes after, one hour, or more.
Hell I had to scroll the page back just to know it again.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
"america does bad things. therefore, its ok for russia to do bad things"
assume america is the most bloodthirsty, vile evil empire that ever existed in the history of the world
ok
in what way does this validate anything bad russia does?
"well see my neighbor, he stabbed his wife to death. therefore when i cut your arm off, that's excuseable"
very shallow efforts at rationalization, no?
a strong people are a people who can engage in self-criticism and take criticism from others. in fact, this is probably the most effective metric for true strength in the world, on any issue, from individuals to entire nations
so you have criticisms of the usa? good, fine, lets hear them. i welcome your criticisms. the usa is not perfect. i have plenty of problems with american behavior too. i spit on the gw bush administration. i recognize every subject of american aggression you raise in your comment and a whole bunch more you didn't mention
and now, guess what... its your turn. let us hear YOU criticize russia. let us hear you address my criticisms of russia. directly, rather than deflecting my words back emptily: "well, america is bad too, so you can't criticize"
what is this, kindergarten? are you 5 years old?
is it impossible for a russian to self-criticize or hear criticism of russia?
do you think this is a sign of strength on your part?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The reason there are so many Russian citizens in South Ossetia is because when the region became semi-autonomous prior to the conflict, Russia granted the South Ossetians Russian citizenship.
Hence the reason for many Western nations silence on certain parts of the issue.
The U.S. wasn't silent. The official party line of the U.S. government at the time was that Russia should completely vacate all parts of Georgia, declaring it "sovereign Georgian territory" or something to that effect. Many prominent politicians, including John McCain (at the time a U.S. presidential candidate) voiced support for Georgia by declaring "We are all Georgians" in support of the Georgian nation. There are rumours that there were U.S. soldiers in Georgia during that conflict (though I don't think that was verified).
Oh, and the whole missile defence shields to be built in the Czech Republic and Poland, despite Russia's strenuous opposition, also involve meddling in Russia's back yard.
That hardly qualifies as "silence" to me.
To be fair, the Obama administration seems to be taking a far more pragmatic approach to Russia, emphasizing cooperation while agreeing to disagree on certain issues (namely Georgia, but not to the extent that the Bush administration did).
As for Quebec (speaking as an English mother tongue Quebecker), there are rumours of CIA involvement in the initial Quebec separatist movement. On the other hand, the Clinton adminstration showed a clear bias towards a united Canada, according to remarks from Bill Clinton during the 1995 referendum and Madeleine Albright's comments in Hull a few years later.
So, yes, the U.S. intervenes in the affairs of other nations when it's in its interests to do so. That should hardly be news to anyone.
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The reason there are so many Russian citizens in South Ossetia is because when the region became semi-autonomous prior to the conflict, Russia granted the South Ossetians Russian citizenship.
Agreed, but how does this justify Georgia's attack on South Ossetia? If I were in charge of Russia and somebody was attacking territory directly beside mine, you bet I'd become concerned.
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Did anyone else read "Cyxymu" as "Sexy Moo"
Ave Molech Setting
"Was Moose and Squirrel!"
- B. Badenov
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
According to a report by the "Times Online" and another report by "guardian.co.uk", today is the 1-year anniversary of the Russian invasion of Georgia. Russian troops has not exited the territory of Georgia though Vladimir Putin signed an agreement to do so. Further, the Kremlin has recognized the occupied territory -- Abkhazia and South Ossetia -- as independent nations although the entire family of Western nations has not.
The coordinated Internet attack against a computer account owned by a Georgian is likely not a coincidence as the attack occurred precisely on the day marking the 1-year anniversary of this show of Russian military force. For that same reason, that a pair of Russian submarines loaded with nuclear missiles were recently patrolling off the East Coast of the United States is not a coincidence.
You forgot to add that Kosovo is not recognized by the Russian Federation nor the entire "family of Western Nations" (see Spain), but that did not stop the "family" from recognizing the breakaway areas of Georgia as occupied Georgian territory. Do you see the hypocrisy? The "family of nations" may decide what is independent or occupied territory with a complete disregard for context of the situation.
The small comment of the devious Russian submarines was a nice touch trying to demonize Russia and diverting the argument, but you should also add the fact that American and Israeli advisors were directing and working with Georgian forces before and during the attack as well as supplying the country with armaments. The Russian's have every right to stay to prevent foreign aggression.
Let's also forget that the U.S has a few hundred bases around the world (including U.S naval fleets), has worked on building a missile system in Poland, attacked and invaded countless countries, subverted democratic movements by coup/covert operations and promoted "free market" Capitalism through its proxies (the IMF and World Bank) all in the name of democracy and freedom.
Yes those dirty commies are up to no good and America is the beacon of light. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless America.
So this happens on the day the Georgian government releases the fabricated report about last year's conflict with Russia. Coincidence?
how does responsibility and accountability work?
you take stock of events, and you admit where you have done wrong
but there is an alternative line of thought, that losers engages in, which is: you take stock of events, and you explain away everything as completely not your fault
"If you cannot condemn American actions when they are obviously done for selfish reasons (operation Ajax?) then you can't condemn Russian actions when they are done for what you consider to be selfish reasons."
what the hell does that have to do with anything? give me a list of every single crime america ever did. i admit to all of them. at this point you can criticize russia? or: give me a list of every single crime america ever did. i admit to none of them. so russia can now commit horrible crimes? what the hell does anything america ever did, whether america is the devil himself or a complete innocent angel, have to do with the evil russia did?
basically what you are saying is "russia doesn't have to be accountable for anything bad it ever did, because somebody, somewhere else, did something bad once"
this is how you think about the world. this is the paraphrasing of your words above
the way you think is the path of ruin for us all. we need people in this world to take MORE responsiblity and accountability, not less. and all your thinking is "this is how you take less responsibility: you observe somebody else did someting bad, so now its ok i did something bad"
no, idiot: america does plenty of bad things. russia does plenty of bad things. you admit to them. that russia did bad things does not excuse the usa. that america did bad things does not excuse russia. get it idiot? you don't read the histories of the world to explain why no one is responsible for anything in this world, you read it to understand the context of certain vile actions and behaviors, but it doesn't excuse ANYONE
here's a random bit of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
now, according to you, and the way you think above, this bit of history gives america the right to do evil without explaining itself. why? because russia did something bad once. fucking bullshit, right? well that fucking bullshit is exactly your words above, in reverse
for example, you point out operation ajax. ok, and? this was something evil america did. so now what? now we can't criticize russia? now russia is allowed to do evil things? because operation ajax happened once? wtf?
you don't have any intellectual honesty. we need MORE repsonsibility taking in this world, not less, and your whole way of thinking is all about tearing down accountability and responsibility
you are what's wrong with this world. no, i really mean that. your rationalization is the exact same rationalization that goes through the mind of anyone right before they commit any crime in this world: "well someone else did something bad, so this crime is ok"
i have a job for you to do: criticize russia. criticize something bad it did. you will find out an amazing thing: you can still criticize the usa after you do that. that you can criticize BOTH the usa and russia, and that criticizing russia doesn't mean you're an american neocon, and that criticizing america doesn't mean your a russian apologist
isn't that fucking amazing you moron?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
To make things even more confusing, apparently the Soviet's refer to the Typhoon class as Akula.
From the wiki: "Note that Akula ("shark") is the Soviet designation of the ballistic missile submarine class designated by NATO as the Typhoon class submarine."
bored IT guy
yelling at strangers on teh intarwebs is a calm idyllic diversion, no?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
a pair of Russian submarines loaded with nuclear missiles were recently patrolling off the East Coast of the United States
and hilarity ensued!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOZuLD1u_K4
There are no nukes on those subs, only torpedoes.
o_O
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your insightful comments. Rant, actually. Insightful rant. You have provided insight into your mind, to be honest.
Perhaps, now that you have finished with your tantrum, you will provide a list of crimes committed by RUSSIA. Today's Russia, that is. Not the old Soviet, but today's Russia. You have blathered on and on about this and that, you have avoided comparing Russia to anything or anyone else, and you seem to believe that Russia is evil. Got evidence? Citations? Surely not Georgia - I maintain that the "invasion" of Georgia was a justifiable action, comparable to actions that the US has rightfully taken. Chechnya? Possibly - the jury is out on that one, IMO. They are battling zealots there who look an awful lot like the terrorists that the US is battling. List some crimes, alright? Is Russia evil, or not?
If/when you come up with a list of crimes, I will probably compare them to things that I know of, and things that I understand. People do that.
BTW - you have not yet given any indication that you understand anything about operation Ajax. A passing reference to it, is all.
And, finally, NO, YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE A NATION (or it's people) with any honesty unless you demonstrate that you understand how and why it operates. Russia doesn't exist in a vacuum, any more than Japan or Korea does. Any action taken by a nation or by a people as a whole is the result of some sort of stimulation in it's environment. A short study of Nazi Germany will make that clear. The loss of WW1, combined with the hardship and suffering of the Great Depression, aggravated by callousness and greed on the part of WW1's victors all contributed to creating Nazi Germany. You've got to look at the BIG PICTURE if you want to understand anything at all.
Go ahead, fire back now. It's not like I take you seriously enough that the personal attacks mean anything. Take your best shot.
Or, you could just drop all the bullshit, and make a meaningful post. Your choice.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Oh come one, how do they know it was an attack against twitter? Twitter is always down - they run their server on one 286 and server it via a ZyXEL 56K Data/Fax Modem - if two people on the planet happen to log into twitter at the same time the site fries!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
russia is engaging in neoimperialism? What about USA my friend? Why don't you look at recent 60 years old history and lets count how many countries USA has invaded and how many has Russia? Need we even mention Iraq, Afganistan, constantly bombing Pakistan etc etc etc? you are truly a pathetic idiot or a total shill. I feel sorry for your severely limited view of the world.
You seem to be using secondary definitions of invasion that don't apply to the concept of imperialism. The primary definition, "incursion of an army for conquest or plunder," does apply to imperialism, and is not something America has engaged in for quite some time. You cite Iraq and Afghanistan as examples of American imperialism, yet in what way have we come to conquer or plunder? If conquest was our aim, why would we enable them to set up their own democratic government rather than claiming them as a U.S. Territory and institutiong our own? If plunder was our goal, would we not have taken the oil instead of buying it? In reference to Iraq, people love to toss out the "fact" that no WMDs have been recovered, which in itself is not entirely accurate, caches have been found scattered about, but nothing large enough to be news worthy. I find myself constantly having to remind people that lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. We know Saddam had the chemical weapons, and we know he used them. Just because he hid/destroyed/sold them we are supposed to pretend they never existed? We also know that the Taliban supported Al-Qaeda, who we know attacked us on 9/11, we know they controlled the remains of Afghanistan, and we know it was partly our fault they were there in the first place, giving us some responsibility in cleaning up the mess. In both of these countries, the US has led the efforts to break the stranglehold of tyrannical governments that have stifled innovation and economic growth, enabling the people to make their own choices. The economies in both Iraq and Afghanistan are doing much better than they were before we intervened.
I don't seem to be able to find any instances of American conquest since WWII and the islands we took from Japan, some of which they had taken from us, and some of which were later returned to Japan. I would hesitate to call this imperialism, however, since these islands were of tactical significance in our war with Japan, both as the means for the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor, and the US to attack Japan. Islands that held no military significance were isolated until after the war, rather than invaded.
I am not familiar enough with Russian history to verify or deny their recent acts of imperialism, and the atrocities I am familiar with are not germane to this descussion, and indeed are irrelevant to my point. You seem quick to deflect the finger from Russia towards the US, but provide no supporting facts to your argument, though you do provide loosely veiled hints at other facts not relative to the point you were attempting to dispute. Even if there was a long list of countries invaded by the US, that would not make it right for anyone else to do so, excepting circumstances where territory was being reclaimed by the original inhabitants, but then there are no nations in existence today that did not conquer their land from someone else if you look far enough into the past. Some would like to use that as justification of human nature to go to war and conquere others, but I would argue it is the animal nature that is territorial, and it is the human nature that seeks to improve itself, to rise above the base animal instincts and consider the betterment of the society and species along with the individual. Through intelligent discourse and sharing of information is this accomplished. Survival of the fittest does not mean survival of the strongest, those who can plan ahead and anticipate eventualities are more likely to survive in the long run than those who attempt to conquer and destroy that which they do not, or refuse to, understand. Jus
Ignorance is Bliss -- And the Opposite is True -- Genius is Madness
[...]and spearheaded by none other than than Dustin Hoffman.
and Dustin Hoffman was in "Sleepers", with who? Kevin Bacon!!!
you ALMOST got by not mentioning the usa even once
i got faith in you kid, you can do it someday
as for your tip about looking at the big picture: many thanks. this is a blindingly radical concept that had never occurred to me before. you are truly a gifted mind beyond the realm of average men
and as for operation ajax: this had to do with cleaning bathroom floors, right? i had never even remotely heard of such a historical event until this very thread in which you brought it to my very attention. my gosh, where would i ever be without your laserlike cutting mind?
(snicker)
but you challenge me to make a meaningful post, so i'll drop the fun and games and repeat something i already wrote in a comment above for your benefit:
you don't read the histories of the world to explain why no one is responsible for anything in this world, you read it to understand the context of certain vile actions and behaviors, but it doesn't excuse ANYONE
i need to mention this, because this seems to be what your conception of getting the big picture means: " people do bad things, but there are reasons for it, so its ok they do bad things"
"A short study of Nazi Germany will make that clear. The loss of WW1, combined with the hardship and suffering of the Great Depression, aggravated by callousness and greed on the part of WW1's victors all contributed to creating Nazi Germany."
ok, and... so we don't criticize nazi germany? explanation=excusing?
or, to put it in the frame of this discussion: "yes, russia invaded a tiny sovereign neighbor because of that neighbor's internal conflicts, but america is a big poopyhead and i was talking with some guy on slashdot and he committed the crime of not criticizing only the usa 100% of the time... and so we can excuse russia for its crimes because there is a BIG PICTURE"
zzz
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
blame everything on russia. even if there's no proof. that's the motto of the american media, and seemingly, the idiots that follow it religiously. i figured, at very least, a site full of intelligent people such as slashdot would able to reason and question the claims, but apparently not when it comes to politics. the attack on the georgian blogger wasn't meant to silence him. how in the world do you silence somebody when the attack only last a few hours? and these are social network sites full of people that practically live there, so you know people are going to be pissed and asking questions when their homes become inaccessible. so OBVIOUSLY, this not an attempt to silence someone, but rather to bring A LOT of attention to him. so let's ask a simple question: who would want to bring attention to a pro-georgian, anti-russian blogger on the anniversary of south ossetian war?
georgia used to be part of the ussr. hell, stalin was georgian
and? that means its ok if the usa invades cuba? that makes it ok for russia to invade georgia? obviously no on either. so why the fuck do you believe any of your bullshit rationalization above means its ok for russia to invade georgia?
islas de pinas (the old name) had a lot of land that was owned by americans before cuba repatriated all of that land under communism. all those americans bought the land fair and square, so the usa has every right to invade... for justice!
the usa freed cuba from spain, with the blood of american servicemen, so cuba owes the usa big time, and the usa left cuba like a nice gentleman, left without a fight, so now cuba should allow the usa to take over islas de la juventud... for justice!
and other such pure fucking bullshit
and yet you believe that exact same bullshit, when russia says it about invading georgia. fucking amazing, your ignorant blindness
but there's a BIG PICTURE (tm)! yeah, there's a big picture you dimwit: invaders use any fucking reason they can think of to invade a country they want to. what, you didn't learn enough from your vast understanding of history yet you retard?
countries invade other countries all the time, and they always have their "reasons". hell, here's another bullshit reason for you: "because saddam hussein is building nukes". fucking laughable bullshit from the moment it came out of little drunk frat boy monkey gw bush's mouth. you understand that. you understand its bullshit
so why don't you fucking understand russia's reason for invading georgia is the same sort of bullshit? what the hell is wrong with you? there's always REASONS you dimwit. but when russia gives you its REASONS, you go "yeah, makes perfect sense". what a moron
and you keep fucking rambling on and on about operation ajax. dude! do you imagine i will defend it or something? it's like a parallel obsession in your brain, like the only thing you even understand about history. we get it, retard: the usa did something evil. the usa did something wrong. no one is disputing or denying that. what do you think operation ajax proves? that the ussr should now be excused because operation ajax occured? i mean, what exactly does fucking ajax fucking prove about russia invading georgia in any way whatsoever?
do you see how fucking twisted your stupidity is?
if you reply, i'm going to start babbling incoherently about how the dutch massacred indonesians in the banda islands to retain control of the spice trade. it was obviously greed, and yet the dutch say they care about human rights, hah! what liars and hypocrites, right?
and you have the audacity to criticize the japanese invasion of manchuria?
how can you do that, when the dutch massacred indonesians you fascist apologist?
huh?!
what the HELL do the dutch in indonesia have to do with the japanese in manchuria?
i don't fucking know, i'm just trying to play your game, i'm just thinking like you think
you're the asshole who keeps fucking babbling about operation ajax when we're talking about russia invading georgia
what a fucking moron
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
How dare you spell slashdot like this '\.' !!!!!
don't you know the dutch massacred bandanese?
therefore, what motivates the dutch forever after is evil and selfishness
and no dutchman can ever possibly criticize the russians then after that massacre, of course
meanwhile, the russians, look at those cute russians
when they tell me they care deeply about the welfare of the south ossetians, well now look, don't you get the BIG PICTURE (tm)? obviously, those cute russians are innocent angels, while you are a selfish evil dutchman
see, i am vastly intelligent student of world history. i see the BIG PICTURE (tm). and what world history has taught me is that the dutch are always motivated by pure selfish evil, while the russians are poor innocent victims fighting for justice
"I'm finished arguing whether Russia had any right to invade Georgia, because they did no such thing."
right. just like islas de la juventud is not REALLY part of cuba because i know some guys there who said so so the usa can invade now
what a fucking ignorant retard you are. no really. you say you are finished? dude, you never even got started. you're a fucking moron. i'm not hurling insults. i'm taking an objective measurement of your ability to think critically about the world: you're STUPID
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Russia gave out Russian passports like candy to South Ossetians, then declared most of them were Russians - well... Duh.
Here's how to do it if you are the U.S.:
1. Hand out U.S. passports to Mexicans on the U.S. border regions (they'll gladly take them)
2. Create/subsidize pro U.S. movement in those areas (easy)
3. Once the "movement" gains ground, have the movement elected into government forcefully - kick out and burn down every Mexican's house who doesn't agree with it; then ask the "elected" government to declare independence
4. "Protect" them when Mexicans try to secure their border
It's not a rocket science really.
Besides, I didn't see anyone coming to rescue for Chechnya when Russia "invaded" it for similar (and many other worse) reasons.
not only that 1200 people died in the Georgian attack on the two areas. I clearly remember a few reports of fleeing civilians talking to western media crews that this was Ossetia's Sept 11.
Those were the words.
so if the ussr can find some dudes in juneau who would support invasion, you would too?
solid fact: the propaganda reasons russia gives you for invading georgia, that you swallow unquestionably, are just as flimsy as the ones american apologists give for operation ajax: it was the cold war, we couldn't let iran fall under russian influence see? its all innocent
that reason of course is bullshit. and yet you believe that same flimsy bullshit when russia gives you it about invading georgia
oh, right, ossetia is not part of georgia, as a vastly intelligent student of world history, you know this
russia wants to control the PIPELINES you ignorant blind fuck. russia has its little feelings hurt about losing empire, you ignorant blind fuck. tibilisi was acting all uppity, so it deserved it, right?
well, russia has every right to invade alaska:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alaska
Russian America (Russian: ) was the name used for Russian possessions in the Americas during the period between 1733 and 1867 in which Russia claimed the territory that today is the U.S. state of Alaska and established settlements farther south in California. Formal incorporation of the possessions did not take place until the Ukase of 1799, which established a monopoly for the Russian-American Company and also granted the Russian Orthodox Church certain rights in the new possessions.
Contents [hide]
1 Russian discovery of Alaska
2 Russian settlement
2.1 1740s to 1800
2.2 1800 to 1867
3 Missionary activity
4 Sale of Alaska to the United States
5 See also
6 References
[edit]Russian discovery of Alaska
The first written accounts indicate that the first Europeans to reach Alaska came from Russia. One legend holds that the first Russian settlement in Alaska was founded when boats from a 1648 expedition of Semyon Dezhnev, which was meant to go to the Anadyr River, were carried off course and carried to Alaska. There is no evidence, however, of such a settlement or settlements. It is possible that Dezhnyev and Fedot Alekseev, a Russian merchant, became the first people to sail into the Arctic from the Pacific through what is now called the Bering Strait.[citation needed] His discovery was never forwarded to the central government, leaving the question of whether or not Siberia was connected to North America. In 1725, Peter I of Russia called for another expedition.
As a part of the 1733-1743 second Kamchatka expedition, the St. Peter, captained by Dane Vitus Bering, and the St. Paul, captained by Russian Alexei Chirikov, set sail from Russia at the Kamchatkan port of Petropavlovsk in June 1741. They were soon separated, but each continued sailing east.
On July 15, Chirikov sighted land, probably the west side of Prince of Wales Island in Southeast Alaska.[1] He sent a group of men ashore in a longboat, making them the first Europeans to land on the northwestern coast of North America.
On roughly July 16, Bering and the crew of St. Peter sighted Mount Saint Elias on the Alaskan mainland; they turned westward toward Russia soon afterward. Meanwhile, Chirikov and the St. Paul headed back to Russia in October with news of the land they had found.
In November, however, Bering's ship was wrecked on Bering Island. There, Bering fell ill and died, and the ship was dashed to pieces by high winds. The stranded crew wintered on the island, then the survivors built a boat from the wreckage and set sail for Russia in August 1742. Bering's crew reached the shore of Kamchatka in 1742, carrying word of the expedition. The sea otter pelts they brought, soon judged to be the finest fur in the world, would spark Russian settlement in Alaska.
History of Alaska
Prehistory
Russian America (1733-1867)
Department of Alaska (1867-1884)
District of Alaska (1884-1912)
Alaska Territory (1912-1959)
Recent history (1959-present)
Other topics
v d e
[edit]Russian settlement
[edit]1740s to 180
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#Cold_War_Origins
can't even keep track of the facts for your own sacred white elephant. i'm sorry this has escaped your attention, oh genius student of world history
now, here:
chiapas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiapas
independent ethnically succinct group of oppressed indigenuous peoples abused by mexico city and in open revolt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation
so, according to your support for russia's invasion and division of georgia according to the tired reason imperialists have given forever, you support the american invasion of mexico to support chiapas as an independent country? yes or no. if yes, you are still a retard, but at least an honest one. if no, tell us why, when the reasons the usa would give for invading mexico to "liberate" chiapas would be the same as what you believe russia tells you about georgia, you dumb fuck
remember sudetenland you fucking moron?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland#Sudeten_Crisis
you want 100 examples from history showing this support of oppressed minorities to be a tired propagandistic excuse by imperialists from throughout history? you probably already know 100 examples, since you are such a brilliant student of world history, right?
military invasion is the ONLY way russia can help south ossetia, oh great student of peace and love?
its because of pipelines you fucking moron, russia wanted a monopoly. fucking ignorant douchebag. you understand petrodollar greed about operation ajax, but not georgia
you are A MORON
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"You lose again. The only way Russia figured into the equation at all, was peripherally. The fact that the West controlled Iran's oil, denied the Soviet any opportunity of topping any bid we might make for the oil. Don't even TRY to bring the cold war into the Iranian coup. Iran wanted money that the US and UK were unwilling to pay, so they toppled the Iranian government."
yes MORON, i KNOW that. what you just said in that quote is what 100% i know and believe
you are acting like i am defending operation ajax, which is obviously why you bought the retarded example up in the first place!
but no, MORON, what i am doing is using your own example AGAINST you: the cold war fear of the usa? BULLSHIT REASON
right? both agreed?
real reason: OIL
now we are in agreement, right?
if you remember, i bought up the operation ajax example 2 3 posts above to MAKE FUN of the bullshit reason the usa gave for operation ajax, because its the same bullshit russia is giving you for invading georgia. do you want me to find that post of mine above or do you think you can trace for yourself with your vast intellect the reason i bought up operation ajax
ok, now let's see if your vast intellect can follow the bouncing ball:
bullshit russian crocodile tears reason for invading georgia: the poor suffering south ossetians
real reason for invading: monopoly on oil and gas pipelines to europe
agreed? no?
so you understand real reason vs bullshit propaganda reason when it comes to operation ajax
GOOD FOR YOU
but you don't understand the difference between a real reason and a bullshit propaganda reason when it comes to the russian invasion of georgia
why is that, moron?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Hackers tried to censor one guy by knocking out his twitter for a few hours. The irony of this is that, now his Twitter is getting a new follower every minute. Take a look for yourself, it was 1420, I pressed refresh and it was at 1433. Epic failure for the hackers, especially if they payed for the bandwidth.
It's not just the Western Nations that don't recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, it's (at least the last time I checked) no one but Russia and Nicaragua. It's a bit of an odd situation though, as Abkhazia does have some basis in claiming a seperate history, just as South Ossetia wanted independence to join with North Ossetia, That the Russians are taking them both on as puppet states truly taints any hope for a reasonable discussion of the subject. A lot of the post-Soviet borders of the area are screwy, it's unfortunate that fighting is the only method anyone has figured out to try to change them.
I had the pleasure of being in Georgia a few weeks ago. Last years war began at the end of Russia's yearly Anti-Terror training in the region, this year they moved it up in response to the NATO ops in the region and we found ourselves right across the border from the largest "training" in the history of the region. People there are still VERY sensitive about it, a man who gave us a lift through Gori pointed out an entire series of buildings had been bombed during the invasion as well as a bridge that they were still repairing because a Russian tank fell through it. I could barely believe how nice the town looked but I've seen the pictures and I recognize a lot of the buildings.
On a server with millions? As far as a DDoS attack is concerned?
The name of the town is Sukhumi.
"Cyxymu" is what the word looks like when written in Cyrillic script.