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Apple's Schiller Responds To iPhone Dictionary App Fiasco

Posted by Soulskill on from the not-so-sinister-after-all dept.

beef curtains writes "Phil Schiller, Apple senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, responded by e-mail to a blog post discussing Apple's rejection of a dictionary app. If Schiller's e-mail is to be believed, it offers an interesting perspective on this whole issue. He said, 'The issue that the App Store reviewers did find with the Ninjawords application is that it provided access to other more vulgar terms than those found in traditional and common dictionaries, words that many reasonable people might find upsetting or objectionable. ... The Ninjawords developer then decided to filter some offensive terms in the Ninjawords application and resubmit it for approval for distribution in the App Store before parental controls were implemented. Apple did not ask the developer to censor any content in Ninjawords, the developer decided to do that themselves in order to get to market faster. ... You are correct that the Ninjawords application should not have needed to be censored while also receiving a 17+ rating, but that was a result of the developers' actions, not Apple's.' PC World has an article summarizing the drama-to-date, the blog post, and Schiller's response."

29 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. Re:surprise by Bredero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because a dictionary getting any age rating is a good idea how?

  2. Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple didn't force him to censor the app. The developer "voluntarily" did it. Of course, it was his only option if he wanted to get it published...

    1. Re:Nothing new by Kumiorava · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Published before the parental controls were implemented... it's a big difference. I don't agree with parental controls, but some people do and to keep those people in peace and using the service we all have to tolerate some inconveniences.

    2. Re:Nothing new by davester666 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem with this is 2 things.

      1. He was given an either-or situation. Either self-censor the dictionary, including some helpful "examples" from the app store reviewer, OR wait an unknown period of time for Apple to implement a new rating level. Effectively, he was told he had to censor the app if he wanted it in the app store in any foreseeable timeframe.

      2. The specific examples the developer quoted as being objected to by the reviewer included 'standard' swear words, and not just so-called 'urban slang' that Phil mentions in his response. And these exact same words are already in existing dictionary apps in the app store, with MUCH lower rating levels (Dictionary.com is rated 4+, and includes the specific example words the app reviewer listed).

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Nothing new by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Parental controls for dictionaries is stupid on its face.

      Yes, just what we need, parents denying the use of dictionaries to their children.

      Good troll. 10/10 Would Rage Again.

      --
      BMO

    4. Re:Nothing new by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, the difference between "student dictionaries" and regular dictionaries is not primarily one of cenorship. The difference is in expected educational level of the user - the definitions are simplified, the technical pronunciations are replaced with easy to follow examples, etc. Sure, most slang terms aren't included, but that's far from the primary difference as it was here with Apple.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:Nothing new by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but it's a bit different when the "dictionary" is, for example, Webster's vs. Urban Dictionary. I don't remember seeing the definition of a "Cleveland Steamer" in the former...

    6. Re:Nothing new by bmo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To follow up on myself:

      In my elementary school, there was a big unabridged dictionary ready for use by anyone,

      In my local 3 room public library, the unabridged dictionary was in the Children's/Young Adult room.

      In the local library down the road from me, the unabridged dictionary is in the Reference section and does not have a giant "NC17" sign on it.

      In Apple's world, there would be armed guards around all three.

      Pure bloody-mindedness.

      --
      BMO

    7. Re:Nothing new by davester666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >But, again, Apple did not require the app to be censored, that was a completely voluntary choice of the developer.

      Yes, by that standard.

      "You can either remove these specific words, OR you can go out of business (which was the other option he was given)".

      "You can say whatever you want, but if the gov't doesn't like it, you'll get shot". I guess this also isn't censorship, because it's your choice.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  3. Back atcha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It provided access to other more vulgar terms than those found in traditional and common dictionaries, words that many reasonable people might find upsetting or objectionable.

    words I often find upsetting and objectionable:

    censorship
    groupthink
    DRM
    paternalism
    authoritarianism
    proprietary
    patronizing

    Thus I have an Android phone. Though it had to be rooted too. But at least when I try to install a program, it asks for my permission rather than the other way around.

  4. Schiller is a shill... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But don't worry, he wouldn't be lying this time...

  5. Cause and Effect by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The developers may have 'chosen' to censor their work, but only because it was the only way their work could exist at all. That's still censorship.

    Apple claiming that the developers chose to do it is like saying someone chose to jump in front of a bullet that was aimed at their child. Yes, they chose to... But it's hardly their fault.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:Cause and Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      OK, let's all read the summary before modding this one up - the developer chose to censor the words so that they could get the app up before Apple could get parental controls implemented. Shiller states that the words were more objectionable than common swear words, and so needed to fall into the 17+ category. The developer could have waited for parental controls to be implemented, or they could choose to filter the most objectionable terms manually - there was a clear way forward in both cases.

      Whether or not the dictionary truly contains words worthy of an NC-17 is a separate argument.

  6. Not a proper response by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 4, Interesting

    'The issue that the App Store reviewers did find with the Ninjawords application is that it provided access to other more vulgar terms than those found in traditional and common dictionaries, words that many reasonable people might find upsetting or objectionable. ...

    I'd like to see Schiller respond to the developer's allegation that the reviewers sent screenshots of specific common swear words - fuck, etc. explicitly typed in by Apple employees.

    Schiller's denial is so vague as to be a non-denial - note he doesn't actually specifically say which words they were rejected for, just hints that this was really quite a dirty, unsavoury dictionary and had no place on a nice store like ours. His implication does contradict the message sent to the developers, which homed in on quite common words which belong as slang in a normal dictionary.

    Much like the Kama Sutra rejection, this brings home how farcical Apple trying to be gatekeeper and arbiter of taste on the app store really is. They should give up now before their reputation sinks under the weight of their hypocrisy - every week I hear of a new stupid and arbitrary decision by their app store reviewers.

    The Google Voice one was worse than this though - at least these guys got a reason which made some sort of sense.

    1. Re:Not a proper response by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Much like the Kama Sutra rejection, this brings home how farcical Apple trying to be gatekeeper and arbiter of taste on the app store really is. They should give up now before their reputation sinks under the weight of their hypocrisy - every week I hear of a new stupid and arbitrary decision by their app store reviewers.

      Looking at the parents group response games like beer pong or "Madworld" got on the wii, I have a little sympathy. Neither game was marketed at kids. Parents groups seemed more upset with Nintendo than the publishers, citing reasons that boiled down to "OMFG, KIDS PLAY THE WII, HOW COULD YOU NOT CENSOR THIS NINTENDO?!?"

      Granted, doing stupid things to avoid upsetting stupid people is stupid, but they are a company, not an organization dedicated to freedom of expression. They'd be reasonable to think that if they don't maintain some standards, parents groups would fly off the handle, boycott it, and they'd be losing out on their most profitable market: kids. It's somewhat positive that at least now they would have published it rather than just quashing it forever.

      Naturally, the real solution should be parents acting like parents, but naturally pigs will fly before these groups put responsibility on their members.

    2. Re:Not a proper response by schon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you a parent?

      I am.

      in many of these cases I think the parents *are* acting like parents when they complain.

      No, they're not, they're acting like children when they complain.

      I know many slashdotters live in some fantasy world where parents are able to monitor their children every waking hour, but it's not reality.

      OK, so now we know that you're not just a parent, you're a bad parent.

      Because if you were a good parent, you wouldn't want to be monitoring your children every waking hour, nor expecting someone else to do it for you.

      Being a good parent involves teaching your children your values so that you don't *have* to monitor them.

    3. Re:Not a proper response by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am, and in many of these cases I think the parents *are* acting like parents when they complain. I know many slashdotters live in some fantasy world where parents are able to monitor their children every waking hour, but it's not reality.

      I know that, everyone knows that. And I had hoped that everyone would realize the folowing: if something is a concern to you, like your kid reading dirty words in a dictionary, then you should deal with it yourself, not make everyone else deal with it.

      I know you have a lot of chores to do, but it takes about 5 minutes to do any one of a number of things to remedy the situation on your end:
      -take the Ipod away from him
      -trust him not to download it
      -don't give him a credit card
      -don't give him the password to itunes
      -talk to him about dirty words
      -realize he already knows them
      -wash his mouth out with soap if he uses them

      The world doesn't have a responsibility to sanitize itself because you have issues with what your kid sees reguardless of how much free time you have.

  7. Re:would someone please tell me by Chyeld · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The dictionary was based on Wiktionary. So I would imagine it could quite possibly contain the fabled seven words and many others. Regardless, it's disingenuous to say that you aren't censoring apps and that the developer did it voluntarily, when the actual truth is you were rejecting the app and the developer had the choice of waiting for an undetermined amount of time (till you actually implmented the partenal controls) or 'self-censoring'.

    That's like saying, "No, we didn't force a confession out of him, we just kept hitting him till he felt like talking."

  8. What?? by 4D6963 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Blackadder said it best :

    Samuel Johnson: Ah, I see you've underlined a few (takes dictionary, reads): `bloomers'; `bottom'; `burp'; (turns a page) `fart'; `fiddle'; `fornicate'?

    George IV: Well...

    Samuel Johnson: Sir! I hope you're not using the first English dictionary to look up rude words!

    Edmund Blackadder: I wouldn't be too hopeful; that's what all the other ones will be used for.

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  9. Re:surprise by 4D6963 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Keeping dictionaries away from children is always a good idea. Nothing good ever came out of letting children use dictionaries.

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  10. Upset reasonable people??? by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously the dictionary he's using has a rather different definition of reasonable people than mine does.

    Mine says reasonable people aren't upset by words, especially the ones they write themselves. Reasonable people also have no expectation of going through life without encountering something they might find offensive, as they know that that idea itself is offensive to some people.

    Why can't we, as a group, start using the names of idiots like that as slang for 'offensive' things? Like ...

    Schiller - verb: To use ones tongue to clean a toilet bowl.
    Intelligent Design - noun: The act of writing ones name in faeces.

  11. Re:surprise by dotgain · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Just FYI, the iPod Touch is pretty much an iPhone minus the Phone, GPS and Compass*, and can run most of the same apps without any monthly cellular cost.

    *I've probably left a couple of inconsequential things out, it doesn't matter.

  12. To Recap by Aim+Here · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I apologise in advance for the bad language but in the interests of having a complete public record on Slashdot, here's a list of the words and phrases that Apple censors from their iPhone dictionaries:
    ---
    Reality Distortion Field
    egomaniac
    vendor lockin
    exploding iPod
    making unfreedom hip
    iCon
    backdated stock options
    Lisa
    fanboyism
    ---
    There you go. I feel dirty now, and shall wash my keyboard out with soap.

  13. So how about the Safari Application? by fluch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does Safari need a 17+ age limit to be used? Will it be removed from the iPhone and iPod Touch? From Mac OS X? It can access even darker places outside there in the virtual world! Oh my godness! :-O

  14. In-store censoring by quacking+duck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Canadian App store users, try this: search for "redskins" As in the Washington Redskins NFL team.

    In each of the resulting 7 or so apps, each of their descriptions has Redskins censored, i.e. "R*****ns."

    (Non-Canadians can verify this by downloading either Pandora Box or AppMiner apps, which download app lists for each country separately, and setting them to use Canadian currency)

    Native American sensibilities is one thing, but censoring the name of a recognized sports team is pretty damn ridiculous. This raises a question: what was the process for getting it censored, and who demanded it be censored?

  15. Re:surprise by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't think you people realize just how close we came to having an app on iPhones that contained vulgar words.

    Disaster was narrowly averted.

    These things start innocently enough. A dictionary, for example, that defines the word "crap" and includes a phonetically-spelled pronunciation. Before you know it, iPhone users will be using those words, and then it's a straight path downward to public displays of affection between members of different races, laughter at fat people in stretch pants, and ultimately universal health care for everyone.

    This is how societies are destroyed. I'm sure if you were to read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, you would see that this is how it happened. And where is Rome today? "In Italy" you might say, but I mean the spiritual Rome of civilized behavior, regular bathing (for the upper classes) and great philosophers like Plato and Jesus.

    Don't scoff. You look like you're getting ready to scoff, so just...don't. I mean it. I've had enough of you scoffers.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  16. Re:OKAY by StellarFury · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Parents would have an easier time if more of them did their jobs. No disrespect to your parenting skills, personally - I have no idea how you parent your children, and won't pretend to - but "parents cannot win" because most of them suck at their job or refuse to do it, and have persistently cried to the government or third-parties that "it's hard" and to "do it for them." So even the good parents can't win.

    Parental controls DO affect people who don't use them. What the fuck do you think the FCC is? The ESRB? The MPAA Ratings Board? That shit is, in essence, "parental controls." They say what gets sold or shown where.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think these organizations shouldn't exist. But they overstep their bounds all the time, and yes, I'm going to blame overprotective, whiny parents just as much as I'm going to blame puritanical religious zealots or stodgy politicians or whoever else is busting down freedom of expression.

  17. Re:surprise by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes you do need to search and I don't believe Apple when they say they have done this.

    Anecdote: When my daughter was in HS she came home one day and said her teacher told her that swear words are not in the dictonary. I grabed the family dictionary (a large 1980's Macquarie hardback). We looked up the word "fuckwit" and found it had a one word definition of "nincompoop". From that day forward my brother-in-law has been known to my kids as uncle nincompoop.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  18. Full of iShit by kiddailey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dear Steve and Steve:

    Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous:

    * Anyone can receive e-mail that contains profanity and porn. Please remove MobileMail.app from everyone's iPhone.
    * Anyone can access or stumble upon profanity, porn and more while web browsing. Please remove MobileSafari.app from everyone's iPhone.
    * Anyone can download and purchase songs full of profanity and sexual references. Please remove the iTunes Music Store from everyone's iPhone.

    Until you remove those three apps as well, it's obvious that you're full of iShit.