Slashdot Mirror
"Hidden" PayPal Fees Inciting Community Unrest
Several sites are reporting on the addition of extra fees to PayPal that are just starting to become common knowledge. While PayPal has certainly had their fair share of controversy, the new "transaction fees" that promise to affect the entire customer base are already well on their way to becoming another. "For example, a personal account sending another personal account money for a one-time payment for, say, mowing your lawn was not previously charged any fees on either side, but is now charged the usual transaction fee (the sender gets to decide who pays). The only way to avoid this is by selecting 'gift' when making the transfer — something you can't do if you're following through on a purchase or invoice from someone. And, if you fall into this category (which many people do), it's likely that you had no idea about the changes until just now."
... when is /. going to re-enable the direct credit card payment option for those who want to subscribe? I was a subscriber for the longest time until this option went away. Not everybody is willing to do business with Paypal or has the ability to do so.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
...than using a credit card.
Ever since they began taking a percentage of my transactions, I stopped using Paypal whatsoever for the freelance work I do.
Paypal was nice when it began, but the more time passes the more annoyinng it becomes.
Do you D?
I don't know any details, but I'd imagine you'd be waiving any of your buyer's protection rights by sending money "as a gift" instead of for a good or service.
Whale
I'm just fucking thrilled with PayPal right now, can't you tell?
I think I'm just going to close my Paypal now
My account was closed for me when I sold an item to someone on eBay who later claimed that he never received the item. Paypal locked my account over this dispute and claimed that I needed to provide them with a tracking number to get the block removed. I did so and then the buyer changed his story from "I never received it" to "he sent me an empty box"
In spite of the fact that his story changed once confronted with the tracking number they still sided with the him and permanently blocked my account until I "repay" them for the money they reimbursed him. If I hadn't already transferred the funds into my checking account I would have lost them and the item I was selling.
As far as I'm concerned Paypal can burn in hell.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I sold an expensive (~$1800) camera package for a friend on eBay. Got an instant PayPal payment, with a confirmed shipping address, but no other communication from the buyer.
Shipped the package to the Texas address via UPS Ground. Followed the tracking info as it hit various points, and eventually made it to the destination...
...where it bounced, launching an exception that the "recipient had moved", and that it was being "redirected to the new address". An address which happened to be within 50 miles of my own address. The "buyer" continued to ignore emails.
Called up PayPal, explained that I'd shipped the package to a confirmed address. They said, "Yes, you should be covered under Seller Protection." I then explained that it had been bounced to an unconfirmed address, without any action or agreement on my part. "Oh," they said. "If you can't provide proof that the package has been delivered to a confirmed address, you aren't protected."
"So," I ask, "you mean that I can send a package using your approved shipper, with your approved tracking, to an address that you've confirmed -- and if the "recipient" redirects the shipment somewhere else, they can then claim that they never received the package, and I'll lose my payment with no recourse?"
"Well, I'm afraid so."
"So I guess I'd better recall the shipment and eat the shipping fee." "Yes, if I were you, that's what I'd do."
And that's why my eBay/PayPal annual sales volume has gone from five figures to one figure (0).
Actually, the article is about PayPal charging more for their service without out notifying customers.
eBay have a stranglehold on the online payment situation, they've banned the use of Google Checkout.
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
Paypal is operating as an unlicensed bank. I am amazed that the Feds have not already come down on them. And don't get me started on Ebay...
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
I found my notice from PayPal on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying
"Beware of the Leopard."
I made an eBay sale recently. The charges, when I placed the auction, amounted to 50p, but by the time Paypal took them from my bank account they had quadrupled to £2. On an item that only sold for £15 this amounts to a 10% surcharge. But who is getting the extra £1.50?
eBay say that the discrepancy is down to Paypal, Paypal say they're just passing on eBay's charges. Yet, as far as I can gather, they are the same company?!?
I get the feeling they are "bouncing" small amounts like this back and forth between the two divisions in the hope that nobody will notice, or at least that we can't be bothered chasing it up.
I wish more sites accepted Google Checkout.
PayPal works with money like a bank or credit card, but they are treated like an internet Western Union on steroids, and yet most of the public is trusting them like a bank, which is a mistake.
PayPal needs controls like bank. The majority of their transactions may be okay, but that's like 95 to 99%... of billions. That's way too many bad transactions. They need to be made more secure, particularly for consumers.
I avoid PayPal like the plague because I don't want to become a statistic.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
You're kidding, right? Paypal didn't send a mass e-mail to all its users saying "Dear Customers, We're jacking up our fees!". Instead, they sent out a mass mail that said "Dear Customers, We updated our Terms of Service. By doing nothing, you agree that you accept the changes."
Take a look at Paypal's legal page. The Paypal "Terms of Service" are actually 14 different agreements, all written in legalese, all saying that they can be changed at any time for any reason by Paypal. All together, the agreements add up 4000 lines, give or take. Not every user is subject to every agreement (some are for specific services), but many are.
So can you really say with a straight face that you believe it is reasonable to expect Paypal users to reread 4000 lines of legalese every time Paypal announces that they've made some change to the agreement? It's not like they're providing diffs. They do not want their customers to understand these agreements or how they have changed because they are dishonest. That's the crux of the issue - Paypal is acting in bad faith to screw their own customers and hiding behind legalese when called out on it.
I have a hunch that they figure out who to side with based on how valuable either party is to them. If you're an infrequent buyer screwed by a big-time seller, kiss your money goodbye, and vice versa. If both parties are frequent users, maybe they just take the hit. If both parties are infrequent users, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they do what you describe above. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one (oops, wrong shady business on that last one).
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
Often times the Paypal "Dispute Process" can be really messed up.
I used to sell a lot of stuff on EBAY when I was unemployed for a period of time. I'd buy things in bulk and sell them off on EBAY. It wasn't making me rich and it was a lot of work but it was helping me get by a hard time....until they started making things difficult for me.
The worst problem was a $27 transaction. The buyer paid and a day later my account was locked. The reason? Apparently at some time the buyer was a victim of credit card fraud so they decided it was fraud again....and because I was receiving the money I MUST be involved. Both of our accounts would be locked pending a paypal investigation.
I had about 60 packages I had to ship out very shortly and the money to do that was...in my Paypal account. Being poor and unemployed, I didn't have nearly enough money to cover it outside of that account. I talked to the guy with the $27 transaction on the phone and we decided to just call Paypal and get them to cancel it. No way. We were both under suspicion of criminal activity. In the meantime, I had another 70-80 auctions end but the Buyers could not send me money because of my frozen account. Obviously "Paypal froze my account" didn't inspire confidence so few of those people worked with me and I got stuck with EBAY seller fees.
I tried to explain the situation to the other people I owed goods. Some asked if I could just refund their money. I agreed to that but...guess what? I couldn't! As time wore on, they started getting mad and filing more complaints. By the time the original was cleared up 23 days later I had another 30 or so complaints where.....I couldn't refund the money. Ebay Fees hit (That money could come out) which left me with not enough money for all the refunds anyway. Of course, they started hammering my bank account after that. Luckily I got a job shortly after and was able to make sure everyone got their merchandise or money....but Paypal just destroyed me, my once spectacular Ebay reputation, and my bank account. It was absolutely ridiculous.