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"Smart" Parking Meters Considered Dumb
theodp writes "The jury's still out on whether Chicago taxpayers were taken to the cleaners by a rushed 75-year lease of the city's metered parking to a Morgan Stanley consortium. But most would probably agree that the new shared Pay Boxes that replaced the city's old parking meters don't exactly live up to their 'Smart' billing. Here's what the redesigned 'user-friendly' parking solution looks like: 1. Park your car. 2. Walk up to 1/2 block to a Pay Box. 3. Wait in line to use it. 4. Use coins or credit cards to purchase parking time — up to $84 for 24-hours (add $50 if you run out of time). 5. Wait for a paper receipt to be printed. 6. Walk up to 1/2 block back to your car. 7. Place the receipt on your dashboard. 8. Head off to your destination, perhaps passing the Pay Box a second time. So before other cities suffer the same fate as Chicago, Portland, and others, is there a 'smarter' way? Some suggest the ParkMagic In-Car Meter, but no new orders are being taken in Chicago. Any other ideas?"
Yay, first post!
They have those things in Sacramento California also, they suck! I hate them! They're the worst!
I heard in some cities though that they place sensors under the parking spots that reset the meter whenever somebody removes their car, as another way of making sure nobody gets any free time.
If only there was some sort of token people could use to activate the meters... But it would have to be something almost everyone carries. Hmmm...
If one were to forge the ticket (which can not be examined closely while under the dash glass...), I wonder how often the meter readers would actually check the machine data or ticket number/serial?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Then have the customer enter the spot number they parked in at the pay box. No return trip, no silly paper receipt to put on the dash board, no worries. Was that so hard?
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What happens if parking enforcement comes around while you're in the middle of the walk-wait-pay-walk process?
Robot Parking Garage
You can build them upwards, you can build them downwards. They take up so much less space than sidewalk parking. Properly designed, they can park and retrieve vehicles really freaking fast.
This reminds me of the Gwinnette County traffic camera deal in Georgia where a private company took over a public service and it goes to heck. Granted the camera deal included a kickback from every ticket, so the company exploited the system to issue more tickets, but still... ideas like this should be brought before the public before implementation so that these problems have a chance to be thought through. Let me step down from the soapbox...
Body in a woodchipper...HA HA!
Also, the new meters could have worked, but the out-sourcing to a private company destroyed any hope of that.
An example of their ineptitude: they forgot to put batteries in some of the meters, making it impossible to get the magic slip of paper, and then ticketed people for it.
We have a pretty decent system in Calgary. The pay boxes are easily found downtown, and the payment is linked to your license plate so you don't need to go back to your car. Also payment via cellphone is available. All in all I like the new system compared to the old time meters.
Ask anyone in Chicago who isn't on Daley's payroll, and they can tell you that the jury is not out on the parking meters: Daley, once again, did whatever the fuck he wanted and the residents, once again, were screwed over.
The parking meters described are user hostile to the population of Chicago. However, they do a much better job of keeping the life of the organization that bought them and runs them easy than having to physically collect coins from so many different parking meters.
The government is not the people.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
They even make these handy devices which can be used to hold quarters and fit in your car's cup holders, or stick themselves to something on the dashboard to the right of the driver, or....
If you don't park downtown regularly - great! $20 in quarters should last a long time. If you do park there regularly - all the more reason to be prepared and stocked up!
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
I've seen this in multitude of places world wide. Not so popular in US but exists here and there. What exactly is their problem? Walking half a block extra? I knew people in Chicago were some of the least fit in the country but this sounds like extreme whining. Would they prefer to walk back from wherever they are every hour to "feed the meter"? Or do they want a system that lets them pay without leaving the car? That's called a parking garage :)
Here in Calgary there's a similar system called Park Plus. If you park downtown you have to find one of the park plus machines (they're not very hard to find, they're all over the place), and punch in your license plate # and a 4 digit code indicating where you're parked (those are on signs all over the place too). There's no receipt or parking pass though. The system is enforced by a set of trucks covered in cameras and antennas. I presume they automatically scan the license plate of every parked car and check against the central system whether you've paid or not. What's pretty cool about it is you can also setup a debit account with the system, and then pay through your cell phone- call the system once when you park to 'check in' and again when you leave to 'check out' and it deducts the payment from your account.
The system works pretty well in Vancouver, Canada.
You can use coins as normal or you can dial a phone number to pay by credit card. Each meter has a number used to identify it.
The first time you use it, you have to register a license and your credit card number. After that, it remembers it based on your caller id I would imagine. You can register multiple cars no problem. It's a bit of a pain enter your license the first time you use it (it would be nice if you could try to use voice recognition first) but after the first time, it's pretty smooth.
The nice thing is that you don't have to go back to your car when you run out of time. To me, that is the biggest pain of street parking. Forget that you have to go half a block to pay for parking. If you have to run back from a few blocks, or in the middle of eating, that is even worse. With the system, we just call the number again and it asks if you want to extend your time. You just enter how many minutes.
I usually use it like this: (a) put in as many coins as I have and take a picture of the meter which has the id number with my iPhone (b) if I'm not back by the amount of time I got from the coins, I call and add time.
Sunny
Be my Friend
Where I live, Burbank, CA, we got rid of all parking meters -- and good riddance to boot! You can park anywhere in Burbank without paying a fee -- pull into any city lot and go to the local AMC Theater, watch a movie --> head on over to your favorite eating spot, have a bit to eat --> head on over to the ice cream shop, get a double-dipper --> browser the magazine shop, read later PC Magazine --> walk the Media Center Mall, hang out with friends --> finally head back to your car! NO RUNNING TO DROP QUARTER. Nice
The Spice Must Flow!
The ParkMagic in-car meter is a scam on the part of the city to steal your paid-for parking time from you. (To be fair, the new smart meters a half a block away from you are probably a scam too). It used to be that if you had extra time on the meter, someone else could park there for the extra time and save themselves money. Considering that if someone else left with extra time you could park in their spot and take advantage of the free time, over the long run it would tend to average out that you were only paying for the actual time you spent parked in your spot.
Now with the new changes, nobody else can take advantage of leftover time on your meter when you leave, and you can't get any kind of refund. So all of the extra time that people pay for -- the city's getting their money for free.
Everyone says they want cities to stop over spending on infrastructure and to have realistic services but every time they inconvenience you just a little bit it's back to "spend spend spend! I can't walk half a block!"
Similar installations have been deployed where I live, and have already had one major benefit:
Fewer people are taking cars in to town.
Though I'm not sure the local retailers share my enthusiasm on that one.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I'm a Portland resident and have been in constant contact with these meters since they were installed a few years back. Seriously, they are not that bad! I don't know why there is even a debate about them. They are reasonably dispersed in Portland, so the "have to walk" argument does not apply. The price is about what you would expect for street parking... And anybody stupid enough to be street parking for 24 hours deserves the cost. You need overnight? Try a garage. Much cheaper.
So far, no drawbacks. Plus you can use a credit/debit card. I was thrilled when these went in here in Portland, and I haven't changed my mind yet.
Can somebody please give a solid answer as to why these meters are a problem?
In a number of cities in Israel you purchase scratch-off cards in connivence-stores. When you want to park you scratch the date/time off the card (to "activate" it) and hang it in your window. I think its pretty brilliant. No physical infrastructure to maintain. To money/coins to collect. If the city wants to change the price of parking - they just change it. No machines to update.
That only really works if parking is a nearly unlimited commodity. Unmetered parking when parking is scarce just leads to people circling forever, like New York City.
I mean, sure, no payment is always the most convenient option, because you don't have to deal with payment. You could avoid the hassle of tokens or payment cards on a subway if subway rides were free, too.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Burbank is not Chicago. I haven't been to Burbank, but if it's an economical use of space in Burbank to put down free parking lots you can't even compare it to a real city (defined by density and layout -- Burbank is certainly a real place where people do real things, but it doesn't sound very urban) like Chicago. Parking meters are put on commercial streets because if they weren't people would park there indefinitely. The summary complains that it would cost $84 to park in some of these places for 24 hours. That's the point! To prevent people from doing that so that the street parking spots are open for convenient access to businesses and city buildings. You don't want parking across from City Hall or the main library downtown clogged with commuters, so use high per-hour rates to push them into parking garages. And you wouldn't want all the spots outside neighborhood cafés and restaurants occupied by residents, so you use meters to keep them on the residential streets (where, if there is a parking shortage, the landlords have an incentive to actually provide parking, which is somewhat rare in many older neighborhoods).
1. Park your car.
2. Walk up to 1/2 block to store entrance.
3. Wait in line to enter and obtain a cart.
4. Pass the checkout counters and walk the equivalent of two or three blocks inside the stoor while manually loading groceries.
5. Wait in line to pay using coins or credit cards.
6. Wait for a paper receipt to be printed.
7. Walk up to 1/2 block back to your car.
8. Place the groceries in the car.
9. Head off to your destination.
10. Carry groceries inside destination.
11. Store groceries in various locations depending on consumability and shelf life at room temperature.
Embarassingly, it is already like this in Portland, Chicago and other cities worldwide.
The whole point of meters was to encourage people to be quick and move on, freeing up parking so others can patronize the same businesses. That's why there are time limits and feeding the meter is illegal in many places, even if you own the car.
Perhaps instead it's time to rethink the whole concept of meters and find a better way to accomplish the task. Preferably one which leaves as few hazards in a too-narrow roadway as it is. Something like.. valet parking, satellite lots, underground parking (I understand this has been very successful in Boston, for instance), mass transit, etc.
It is clear to anyone with more sense than a turnip that individual transportation machines is not a solution that scales well. But it's tricky because it's not enough to have the bandwidth, a viable "public transportation" option needs to have equivalent or better latency, too.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Oh my god. I dropped my cheesy fries, ice cream and XXL soda and almost had a heart attack just thinking about walking up to half a block! Please resuscitate me when somebody comes up with a drive-through parking meter payment system.
My city started installing this system and I thought it was inefficient but could be more convenient in some circumstances.
However, I talked to one of the parking enforcement people and it was eye opening. They now know exactly when a meter expires via a wireless link from the smart meter to a handheld device. No need to walk past every meter now. They can just get a reading of which spot is expired and if a car is in that spot.
It's just a giant money grab by the city under the guise of "smart" technology. It's smart alright - smart for the city.
In Ann Arbor, the "smart" meters are susceptible to an exploit where if you add 5 cents of time to a meter, you remove all the existing time on that meter. For $1, a prankster can reset 20 parking spots and watch everyone get parking tickets. More info at this screenshot of a now-deleted comment on AnnArbor.com.
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
And painted lines are either too small to parallel park your stupid Hummer, or a massive waste of space to park a smart car. Without lines, you can squeeze more cars into a block because people get right on each others ass--which is the way it should be. Everybody should get on each others ass, that way there is no wasted space.
Put in lines, and you waste an assload of space so some idiot can parallel park his boat-car.
No thanks. I'll keep my city streets free of painted lines and if they become painted, I (and most of my neighbors) will take the suggestion, but if there is enough space, we'll happily park our cars between the lines. After all, when it takes 15 or 25 minutes to find a space, if my car can fit, I'm parking it--fuck your lines.
PS: nothing makes me smile more than grown men who need their wife/girlfriend/friend to get out and guide them into *giant* spot. Buddy, I can park your car so there is only two inches between the guy in front and the guy behind and do it without tapping either bumper. It takes a while, but as I said, when you look for 25 minutes to find a spot--if I even think I can fit, fuck it, I'm going in!
Arlington, VA has recently replaced alot of their parking meters with them as well. Each space has an individual meter that works exactly like the old one did, except it can take a credit card as well. Problem solved.
In Taiwan it appears driver friendly rather than operator friendly. People just park and leave, then a parking inspector would come round every 30 minutes or something, take a photo of their number plate with a device, and leave a waterproof ticket on their windshield. Each time the inspector comes round he or she leaves more tickets on each windshield. When the driver comes back they get all the tickets and pay them at the nearest 7-11. I assume you have a certain grace period to pay the tickets.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
You'd think, but at least in Chicago, the privatization contract included anti-competitive clauses:
Section 3.12. Competing Off-Street Parking.
(a) Subject to Section 3.12(b) and Section 3.12(c). the City will not operate, and will not permit the operation of, a "Competing Public Parking Facility." A "Competing Public Parking Facility" means any off-street public parking lot or public parking garage that (i) is (A) owned or operated by the City or (B) operated by any Person and located on land owned by the City, or leased to the City, (ii) is within one mile of a Concession Metered Parking Space, (iii) is used primarily for general public parking; (iv) has a schedule of fees for parking motor vehicles that is less than three times the highest Metered Parking Fees then in effect for Concession Metered Parking Spaces in the same area; and (v) was not used for general public parking on the effective date of this Agreement.
The Three R's of Portland
or
Why Portland Sucks
"Latte Town" was coined a few years back and is the most appropriate term for the City of Portland that I have ever heard. A Latte town consists of mostly white, educated baby boomers and young single people. The inhabitants of the town are usually newcomers who have priced out all the original inhabitants. These towns are usually expensive, pretentious, abound in natural fibers and are laid back on the surface. Latte towns like Portland pride themselves on their most cherished concepts of diversity and inclusiveness. Most Portlanders accept this myth as Gospel but upon close examination Portland's dirty little secret is revealed. Portland is an overwhelmingly white, non-ethnic city. It is as vanilla as it gets so it makes one wonder what all the celebrating of diversity is all about. Drive through any neighborhood surrounding the downtown area and the impression that you get is that Portland is nothing more than a series of elitist ghettos compromised of rich white homosexuals, rich white yuppies, rich white hippies, rich white trust funders, and rich white kids from the suburbs pretending to be street people. Where's the diversity? Well it doesn't exist but the average Portlander likes the concept and in their eyes the different shades of rich whites all constituent diversity. In a series of articles I will attempt to breakdown and explain these subtle distinctions between the various factions of lily white, latte people that make Portland what it is.
The Artist-Intellectual
The visitor or newcomer to Portland is bound to be struck by the sheer numbers that belong to this group. They seem to be everywhere and are in fact everywhere. They are the reason that all the coffee shops have tables and chairs. The artist-intellectual fancies himself as a poet, a writer, a musician, a filmmaker, etc. You get the drift. They spend most of their days idling around the coffee establishments that one finds every 10 feet. They are usually equipped with a notebook that they use for their poems, journals or their artwork. No one ever gets to see the contents of these notebooks. More often than not they have a beaten and weathered paper back copy of some book authored by Kafka or William S. Boroughs. They love to discuss their favorite subject, themselves. Given the opportunity they will prattle on for hours about their poems, art work or the film they are making. You never get to actually see any of their work but you do get to hear about it. Their lives are like one never ending semester in grad school. Initially I believed these losers but then got to thinking. What would an aspiring actor, artist, musician, filmmaker being doing in Portland Oregon, a latte town? Why wouldn't they be in NYC or LA? Because they're phonies, that's why. Here's how it works with these clowns. They flunk out of college in New Jersey so their parents send them to Reed College in Portland in hopes that they will get their act together. They drop out of Reed but stay in Portland while still on Daddy's tab or some trust find. One Saturday Josh or Seth drifts down to one of the hundreds of hippie craft markets downtown. Some hippie is selling didgeridoos that he made I between bong reps. Josh buy one and takes it home where he proceeds to get baked after which he blows a few sour notes into the didgeridoo. The next day he's a musician. Not really but that's what he's telling everyone at the coffee house and pretending is good enough for a Portland artist-intellectual, in fact it's everything. In three months he will switch his designation from musician to filmmaker and then onto to something else 3 months later. As long as it sounds cool he will keep this charade up and no one in his circles will call him on it because they are doing the same thing.
The Activist
This group is usually comprised of people that used to be part of the artist-intellectual group in Portland. They have gotten a little older and may have finally, after 12 years, obtained a liberal arts degree from Portlan
People too poor for a ramp (read: college students me) could instead trade time for a spot. Sure, you might have to circle for 10 minutes and park further away but that meter might only cost you 25c for 15 minutes.
I understand that more expensive parking puts the cost of driving more clearly on the driver but I don't like it. Ramps are already quite expensive and meters are hard to find so I like being able to spend my time instead of money (it still puts the cost on me...just in a way that I can handle). Also, a lot of the heaviest drivers don't use meters--they have monthly parking passes for work at a steep discount compared to hourly parking.
I get that increasing the perceived cost driving will cut down on unessential car use but sometimes it is simply necessary. Necessary car use is what things like uhaul and zipcar (and igo car--the chicago only zipcar equivalent that I use sometimes) are for...whenever I am parking somewhere, you can rest assured that I *need* to be doing that driving because I am already paying out the ass for mileage on a uhaul or on the clock for my igo car...
Bottles.
I don't understand the modern viewpoint that cars are evil, and their usage should be discouraged. They are simply an update of the classic horse-and-cart that humans have used for 10,000 years, and the reason humans used these carts was because they were great for carrying lots of stuff.
Don't believe me? Well I just bought almost a month's worth of groceries. Try carrying 20 bags onto the local subway or bus or walk home. I think I'll keep my horseless cart. Thanks.
As to the point of the article - This is just more of the same politician stupidity that gave us hackable, error-prone computer voting (and eventually led to the return of paper ballots). Just because something is "new" doesn't mean it's better than the old system. The old mechanical meters invented in the 1920s may not be sexy, but they get the job done, and as this article demonstrates the new meters are not any better.
An upgrade to new tech is only worthwhile if it's an actual UPgrade, rather than a downgrade.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Most people here seems to regard parking meters as normal and acceptable devices. Fact is that the SOIL is public. That means that the SOIL is YOURS. Now would you like to be charged for living into your house? I doubt it. So why can you accept that someone is renting your land? Here now you are debating which form of stealing is better for you. Like debating whatever is better to be eaten by a lion or a tiger.
*LONDON CASE* - Just in case my points need proof. London is the best example that the government is not able to get public transport done in a decent way. Those who had the pleasure to visit London had the pleasure to witness the outcome of this resignation policy, where citizen don't question for a long time the actions of their governors.
Tube: In london the tube is the most expensive public transport of the world. To eradicate privacy concerns you are told that you've got no privacy: the tube is covered with cameras. They are there just to easen your feelings of unsecurity and keeping souvenir videos of dead kamikaze bombers for later inspection.
Congestion Charge: You can't use your car if you don't pay. Basically 16$ flat rate to get into the city. Cameras with number plate recognition software will note every car entering the charging zone. At the end of the day number plates will be cross referenced against a database of payments made -and don't forget to fuck privacy.
Parking: Public parking in central london is practically non existant. Where it is available the rates are so high that made possible for a private parking industry to florish (usually 36$ per day, 3,60$ per hour). With the advent of decriminalised parking the practice is becoming much more widespread and as evidenced by the TV docu-soap 'Clampers', can be very arbitary: "clampers using threatening behaviour". Insane measures to clamp even bikes: Inside the Greater London area all footway parking is prohibited unless it is specifically exempted and signs indicate that you may park partially or wholly on the footway. -
Conclusions: In london there is no other options but to be raped insane charges by local authorities. You take a bike, you can't park and risk clamps - You take a car you pay for using (congestion charge) and parking (if and when you find a spot) - You take the tube you are going to pay the most expensive transport system of the world AND you are still uncertain if you can reach your destination in time or whatever (It's like lotto, if you're lucky you get in time, if youre not lucky you're screwed since anything can happen, from detours to surface lines, delays or anything else - Also take for granted that when it happens you will find yourself dumped in parts of the city you never knew they existed before).
You, like most people miss the point of the new meters. They transfer the cost of use directly onto the driver. Where as the old meters had to be emptied and maintained by the thousands, these new meters can be emptied less often (more CC, less coin) and there are an order of magnitude less of them.
The ones they installed in Portland even have a spiffy automated cart that empties them. The meter maids pull up in their special golf carts, and the machine does the rest. It's considerably cheaper for the city itself, and the "cost" is the same to the driver. With the added bonus of slightly more hassle. It's also no longer possible to break a meter to get free parking, something I have seen done more than once. Now if the local meter is broken, you are supposed to find the next nearest one and use it instead.
The only downside for the city is the increase in pedestrian accidents because people are forced to cross the street (usually mid block) to get to the meter on the other side. And then back again. Most people just jaywalk, and this causes accidents. Portland had an expose about it a year or so ago, but I can't be bothered to dig through the horrid oregonian website to find it.
You seem to be in agreement with his point. It's not his car that's evil, it's *him*.
Fact is that the SOIL is public. That means that the SOIL is YOURS. Now would you like to be charged for living into your house? I doubt it.
Ever heard of property/real estate tax?
Speaking as a Londoner -
That's not true about biking - the biggest worry about having a bike in London is that it will get stolen / vandalised when you lock it up. It doesn't stop people though, there's a thriving bicycle scene here, and I call bullshit on the idea of bikes being clamped (the clamps wouldn't fit for a start).
The tube is a pain in the arse - but that's mainly because when it was built they didn't think it necessary to put in 4 tunnels (like in NY), so they aren't able to maintain it properly (in NY they routinely shut down 2 tunnels to fix them, without having to shut down the whole line - in London they barely manage to keep the lines working in the 6 hours of down-time every night).
Then there's the overland rail network, and the buses - they have their problems too but they do give you options (I take the bus into work, and my journey is consistently between 20 and 30 minutes, and I always get a seat).
Anyone who drives in central London is crazy and / or masochistic, but what's new? It's been that way for ever, that's why I don't bother having a car. When I really need one I use a streetcar ( http://www.streetcar.co.uk/ ), a service that pays the congestion charge anyway (and note that it's only the centre of the city that has the charge, and only during office hours).
Then there's the DLR in East London, or the south London tram service - both examples of well-run, clean and effective public transport whose only downside is that they only service parts of the city.
In regards to the article - if you're looking for a 'smart' meter, how about using your mobile phone: http://www.bromley.gov.uk/transportandstreets/parking/park_phone_and_go.htm
Finally: "where citizen don't question for a long time the actions of their governors." - O RLY?
There are plenty of transport options of which you missed buses, local train services, crossrail, private coach operators, mopeds, motorcycles, electric/hybrid vehicles, taxis. Yes the tube is fairly expensive but public transport in London is still pretty good considering the load it works under.
As for cars, screw cars. The congestion charge was introduced in because cars ground London to a standstill. For 95% of commuters there is no reason at all to drive in anyway since central London (where charging occurs) is very well supplied with tube and bus routes. If you absolutely must drive and don't want to pay the charge, you have plenty of other choices, including driving hybrids and electric vehicles which incur no charge.
Does that mean London's transport system is perfect? Far from it but it works and works quite well aside from when the unions decide to go on strike.
>>>Technically, you never truly 'own' property.
Property tax was invented by the Progressives, who would probably call socialists in today's terminology. There was a problem where rich people were buying land, saving it, and then selling it for profit. That drove-up land prices and made it difficult for poor or middle income citizens to buy land. The progressives/socialists came-up with the idea of property tax.
Basically the property tax is supposed to offset any profit, and thereby discourage speculation. As with most good ideas, it was perverted and now it's become a way to turn citizens into the modern-day equivalent of serfs. You rent the land rather than own it.
The worst type of property tax is in Virginia where you pay a tax on your car. Why? A car's not property - it's an appliance; it depreciates rapidly. There's no valid reason to charge an annual tax/tribute on a depreciating hunk of metal, anymore than you'd pay property tax on a refrigerator or a stove or a television.
Greedy politicians.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I'd rather do daily groceries by bike.
Do you have children? Do you live with a partner? Does s/he work? My wife and I each work and get home from work at around 5:30. We have dinner with our daughter around 6 or 6:30, then bath time, story time and bed time with one parent, while the other parent cleans up from dinner. Then it's an hour or so of 'us' time, before we head to bed. Where exactly in our schedule is this mythical time to do 'daily groceries by bike' in the dark pouring rain in February?