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FTC Rules Outlawing Robocalls Go Into Effect Next Week
coondoggie writes "Nearly a year after announcing the plan, new Federal Trade Commission
rules prohibiting most robocalls are set to take effect Tuesday, Sept. 1. With the rules, prerecorded commercial telemarketing robocalls will be prohibited, unless the telemarketer has obtained permission in writing from consumers who want to receive such calls. Hopefully the rules will go a long way to helping consumers eat dinner in peace without being interrupted by amazingly annoying telemarketer blather or in this case prerecorded blather. The requirement is part of amendments to the agency's Telemarketing Sales Rule (TSR) that were announced a year ago. After September 1, sellers and telemarketers who transmit prerecorded messages to consumers who have not agreed in writing to accept such messages will face penalties of up to $16,000 per call."
...or did they make sure to keep that loophole in there for themselves again...
The person I should call when my dinner is interrupted by another call? I bet their voicemail is slashdotted the first day.
Something witty.
For the most annoying types (scams mostly) this won't matter any. There's already a "Do not call" mechanism that's ignored. The legitimate ones will obey, the rest will just continue on.
Yes, it gives some teeth for when you actually catch them, but for the millions of us who have been getting the "Your credit rating will be affected!!!" calls lately, I doubt it will make any difference to our evening meals.
}#q NO CARRIER
Governmunt regulation is bad and socialist and communist and will make our children weak and effeminate. I know it's true because Ronald Raygun told me so. Why does the FTC hate America?
RON PAUL! RON PAUL! RON PAUL!
Presumably, "opt-in" counts as "in writing", and my library will continue to robocall to announce that my book on hold is available. But on the flip side, I can see all sorts of obscure checkboxes when you order online that enable robocalls should you not notice and check/uncheck them.
Scumbags who use robocalls don't care about laws or reputations. Most of the products they peddle are outright scams or at the very least a bad deal for customers.
The perpetrators will set up shop offshore and evade detection. This law, just like CAN-SPAM, will make no difference at all.
The problem is that any language they put in the bill to protect mass "information only" calls, can also be used as justification by clever spammers. "But we weren't trying to sell anything... we are trying to educate prequalified members of the public on this issue, and were merely pointing them to our web site filled with articles from experts and offer them the opportunity to join our community of interested citizens absolutely free of charge."
So.. what's the going rate for a callcenter in... well, what's the cheapest place nowadays?
Paying somebody to call a bunch of numbers, regurgitate a preconceived message, then transfer to the appropriate office if the called person takes the bait... can't be all -that- expensive* and circumvents the 'pre-recorded' bit of a 'robocall', right?
If -only- that bit is what is ruled against, then an automated dialer can still at least only transfer those who answer the phone to the poor sod with the aforementioned job, too.
Surely a loophole can't be that big?
* more expensive than a completely automated dealie, of course, but the above is, I presume, the way they did this -before- such technology was available..
Happy Dude is not going to be happy.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
in fact, the last 3 or 4 days (strange coincidence) I've been getting calls that ID themselves as 'sbc messaging' (calif). my answering machine (real actual one, not a phone-company service) picks up and takes their message. I get home and play back the recordings and they are *just* "we're sorry.". and that's all they say!
wtf?
really. wtf? what purpose is that? chew up my 'tape' space? (no I'm not literally tape-based, just a figure of speech, y'know).
so, I try calling back since they did leave an actual # in the caller-id. when 'they' answer, its still a recording and says something like 'this is a non-profit; we are exempt from the no-call list'. again, WTF!! they go on to say they are selling (!) tickets to some event for $40 and its non-profit (again, with this loophole thing).
I leave them 'a message' alright. I will continue to chew up their time and disk space like they are wasting mine.
or, in fact, I'm working on a hardware hack that will use caller-id and MY BLACKLIST and simply just not pick up the phone (disconnect the ans. mach. from the phone jack via a relay) if the caller-id name is that stupid 'sbc messaging'. no good ever came from calls that ID themselves with that string (seriously). I want to black list them and that name, but I don't think you *can* via any simple 'phone company' way. isn't the phone company 'in on it', so to speak? they are allowing their phone network to be abused like this and they *sell* phone service to these scumbags. they're *happy* to take their money.
there simply is no purpose in calling me and then leaving a no-op of a phone message.
something needs to be done. if need be, at the hardware (local) level. but something needs to be done.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
With the rules, prerecorded commercial telemarketing robocalls will be prohibited, unless the telemarketer has obtained permission in writing from consumers who want to receive such calls.
Ah.
You can expect the "permission" to be buried in the fine print of phone contracts, software licenses, and the like. And be sure to remember to uncheck that "share your information with third parties" box.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Well, thanks folks.
Those assholes with the robocallers are now going to phoning Canada with their scams, because it's out of jurisdiction. We saw it with the do not call list, and now...
Hell. I might just stop answering my phone entirely.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I'm thinking it might be time.
something that ensures a human is at the other end, and a thinking one, at that. yeah.
phone spam is getting to the point where we need blacklists and whitelists. wildcards on names, numbers in caller-id. or even trapping on lack of caller-id.
arms race they want? we can meet that challenge.
but its a damned shame we've let ourselves get to this point ;(
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Every online or paper contest you ever enter from now on will include the small print "By entering this contest you consent to being placed on a call list".
The people running the contest will then get to sell your contact info and consent to be robo-called.
Most of the robo calls (all scams) that I get in Canada come from the US. I hope that this is not allowed. Also will they just move to India or whatnot and phone North America? The best place to block these calls is at the Telco level. Have people dial a code when crap calls come in. Then after a handful of crap calls are noted the number is blocked for all people who opt into this system for all users of the Telco. This would not only block scams and whatnot but it would block all numbers that other people have indicated are obnoxious as all DNC lists seem to exclude political and charity calling. I don't want anyone calling me who isn't a friend or family. I didn't get the phone for any one else to phone me so any telco that will block all crap calls will win my business.
it's only that some are more equal than others:
However for those who have called on the FTC to help eliminate the other phone scourge - political robocalls - the new rules will not help. Calls from political campaigns are considered protected speech the FTC said.
Next they can ban those annoying spam text messages.
I don't ask for much. I just want $16 per spam mail.
I'd rather get 10 spam messages than one phone call. The phone call distracts me from my day to day activities, while email is a mode I put myself to check. I'm glad they're outlawing robocalls.
God spoke to me.
That wouldn't be so bad, except no one here speaks Spanish. So I have no idea if it's a bill collector, a telemarkter, or a candidate running for office in a Spanish speaking area.
All the Spanish I know is basically ordering a beer and asking for directions to the bathroom, so I know they're not selling Dos Equis or directions to the toilet.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
What, no skynet tag? What's wrong with you /.?
Only outlaws will use robocalls!!!
Like I give a shit about Scarlett Johansson opinion on candidates or pending legislation
Calls from political campaigns are considered protected speech
But who knew we'd already granted computers rights?!!
Quack, quack.
If they already have a call center in the cheapest place, I can guarrantee they don't care about the pre-recorded law as they aren't in the US.
What detractors against regulation miss is that their creed, if enacted, would also eliminate regulations that personally benefit them. It's just another aspect of the Right's extraordinary ability to convince otherwise-rational people to act against their own interests. Through careful stoking of innate fears via the media, the Right induces a pathology in approximately 33% of the population.
Crap! The drugs are wearing off!
RON PAUL! RON PAUL! THE GOVERNMENT WILL KILL YOUR BABIES!
"There's already a "Do not call" mechanism that's ignored"
I haven't gotten a single call on my mail line since the day I put it on the Do Not Call List.
Recently I got another number and couldn't figure out why I was suddenly getting unsolicited calls. Then I remembered the DNC List and once again haven't gotten a single unwanted call.
Yeah, this strikes me as a roundabout way to make telemarketing calls more expensive. Why not tax them instead, whether they're pre-recorded or not?
The shareholder is always right.
I wouldn't consider paying a fine (in this case, $16K/incident) to be much of a punishment. Sure, the robocaller stops bothering me, but once the robocaller is fined the government keeps it all. Every time a robocaller calls me, I'm the one who is inconvenienced, so why don't I get anything for helping to bring one of these guys down? It seems to me that if I report the number and it gets successfully prosecuted, I should get a cut of the reward. You can take the $16K fine and split it up equally among the people who reported that same number, and everyone wins.
It will never happen that way, though.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
Because we only adopt "market-based" solutions when they benefit the existing oligarchs. Putting a fair price on a shared resource in order to establish an efficient market is SOCIALIST AND THEREFORE EVIL.
Let me say this first: I'm an aussie and (thankfully) we don't have the issues that you guys seem to have in the U.S. with all these telemarketers.
Could not the whole telemarketing thing be put under a trespassing code, rather than a freedom of speech one? As far as I'm aware (which is not at all), you guys can put a sign on your front gate that says 'No Trespassing' which will stop any door-to-door salesmen. This of course doesn't stop someone standing at your front gate shouting slogans and the what-not.
However, if it could be done that your phone was an extension of your territorial rights of terrestial land, could not _any_ breach be regarded as trespassing?
2c
The government can make all the regs they want, the telcoes render then null and void. We already have plenty of rules against junk faxes, violating the do not call registery, outright scam calls, etc. Now what do you do when you get one? The ones you would want to make pay always either blank out the caller-id or put a totally bogus (I get a lot of 1-555-* myself) number into the field. So that means the telco would have to give you the identity of the caller. Obviously THEY know who it is, they have the billing records. But you would need a court order to pry that information from them. I have even tried calling them and saying the last call into my line was illegal, and if they couldn't give me the info could they report it to the FTC, law enforcement, anybody? on my behalf. Nope, customer records are private without a court order and the phone company isn't interested in policing customers who pay them a hell of a lot more then you do.
So good luck getting the spammers/scammers to actually pay any fines until they get notorious enough for the FTC to run a sting against one.
Democrat delenda est
Call me? If I know your number, cool. Else if you know the extension, either my permanent one for friends, or the throwaways I use for business purposes, cool. Else you had better be listening closely enough to hear the digit you must press to even leave a message.
This appears to me that it will weaken the existing prohibition against this practice by providing the "in writing" loophole. Calling without a real person on the other end was already illegal except in limited circumstances due to the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (TCPA)
[...]
(1) Prohibitions
It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States, or
any person outside the United States if the recipient is within the
United States--
[...]
(B) to initiate any telephone call to any residential
telephone line using an artificial or prerecorded voice to
deliver a message without the prior express consent of the
called party, unless the call is initiated for emergency
purposes or is exempted by rule or order by the Commission under
paragraph (2)(B);
[...]
How much do you want to bet that consent to robo-calls will quickly be added to the boiler plate in all sorts of contracts as well as privacy policies and TOS notices.
If it doesn't show up in everybody's mail box as part of a change to their credit cards' privacy policies, that might actually surprise me.
-Mysteryvortex
Over the past couple of years or so, I've gotten probably a few hundred robocalls from about five different sources. I await in anticipation to see if any of these drop off the radar as a result of the new law.
With VoIP technologies and techniques, how long before people attempt to skirt the rules by operating outside of U.S. borders?
Oh, fuck you. Obama's policies, if he can get undemocratic senate to pass them, would obviously benefit the common man. That his approval rating is falling is a refection of the skill of the satanic Republican provocateurs and not of any rational problem with his approach.
We'll be taxing them starting on Tuesday, at $16,000 per call
Last I looked, the senators took pains to draft into the bill that they themselves were exempt from the no-robocall rule for their political campaigns. (and my phone did ring off the hook with campaign robocalls in the last few elections too) Is this still the case?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
"Felicidades."
Now who is doing to tell me when the warranty on a vehicle which I may or may not own is going to expire?
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
It seems like an obvious thing to add with todays level of technology. Although I have been registered on the do not call list for years, and that has not stopped many companies from interrupting my daily life with mortgage ads, and other unwanted sales pitches.
... that there are seemingly a number of surprisingly 'good' things (for the people) coming out of our various federal departments recently?
I'm curious if this has to do with better appointments to tops, better pressures, coincidence, or maybe a seriously interesting change for the better in government....
I doubt the last one, lol.
I haven't really looked into it, but from what I read the other day it looked like Google Voice would handle all this shit. Did I read it wrong?
Calls from political campaigns are considered protected speech
But who knew we'd already granted computers rights?!!
...and who knew we actually granted "right" politicians computers?!?
Then I saw it was robocalls and not Robocops that were being banned. Chalk one up for the government for a change!
[http://it-tastes-so-good.blogspot.com] Are you hungry?
Price fixing and taxation are not the same. Twisting the terminology to bash people you disagree with only makes you look deceptive. On another note, who are the oligarchs in charge of telemarketing?
The government can't save you.
But who knew we'd already granted computers rights?!!
Yeah. Because nothing that anyone says using a machine -- say to aid in disseminating their thoughts to many more people than they could talk to in person -- is actual protected speech!
Now report to the reeducation center, citizen.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
What about hang up phone calls?
I get two cell phone calls a day from the same 866 SOB. If I pick up, the line goes dead on the other end after about 3 seconds. They haven't tried to sell me anything (which is outside the wording of these FTC rules)... though they are presumably waiting for me to answer the phone shouting "yes" so that they can dub it to any contractual agreement that suits their fancy. But maybe they have a darker, more devious purpose?
for years but it doesn't stop calls coming in from the rest of the world. Sadly there's not much you can do about that
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
I'm sure those drafting the legislation wouldn't leave such a blatant loophole ... lol.
We should have a brainstorm.ubuntu.com but for laws, people could add suggestions, others could comment and vote up/down. The legislators draft up the results.
The last two cell phone numbers I had were bombarded by robocalls from bill collectors looking for the previous owner of the phone number. Those calls offer automated options for the intended recipient, but NO automated option for "wrong phone number". Instead they give you a number for you to call and wait on hold if you want to tell them that the person is not at you number.
Whenever their call yields a caller ID number, I report it as a telemarketing call. I get a letter a month later explaining that it wasn't, but at least I've caused someone some trouble.
How about Robogeisha? Is she safe?
Because they're mostly scammers who will lie and cheat on their taxes, and many of them have their call centers where the US doesn't collect taxes and are likely to just move there. They're also likely to be state taxes, which are tricky to enforce for interstate traffic such as telephone and Internet sales.
More effective might be changes in phone rates. A clear contract with the telephone company that forbids such behavior, along with a stiff and federally and internationally permitted hefty financial tariff by the _phone companhy_ for violations, would add a significant cost to many such businesses. And penalize the phone companies for permitting it, penalize them _hard_.
It would put tracking the behavior in the hands of the people who gain the most now by abuse (the phone company selling phone time) and replace it with incentive to stop such behavior. Right now, the phone company has no reason to stop this behavior. They're happy to sell the time, even at the ludicrously low business rates for such companies it's just money to them.
My robot won't be happy...
Because we only adopt "market-based" solutions when they benefit the existing oligarchs. Putting a fair price on a shared resource in order to establish an efficient market is SOCIALIST AND THEREFORE EVIL.
Taxation is a "market-based solution"? I fear you're letting your dogma cloud your thinking.
I think I'll leave the SIT tones at the beginning of my voicemail message anyway. The way this reads is for *prerecorded* messages. Not robo-dialing itself, that forwards a pickup to a live telemarketing droid. I'm reading this just from the summary, though, and the article may say otherwise.
Yes, when taxation captures externalities, it helps the market function better.
I get some robocalls but not that many, and zero of them are politically affiliated. What I do get though are ethnically targeted telemarketers calling me up and speaking in hindi or urdu. Somehow someone sold the company information which includes my ethnic background and they try to cater to me by speaking my language. I ask them where they're calling from and most of them say they are in India or Pakistan, and sometimes a Middle Eastern place like the UAE where lots of South Asians have moved. They sell all sorts of stuff from insurance to long distance plans to duct cleaning service and travel packages. There's nothing I can do to stop these guys and when I answer the phone they speak as though they are some seldom-spoken-to relative calling me after a long time. Friggin annoying. I'm on the Canadian National Do Not Call List which reduced telemarketing calls by about 75% despite its huge list of exceptions...but of course it doesn't apply to international efforts to sell crap.
The AC got yanked away from his computer by the men in the black helicopters as he typed his subversive speech on that machine (which has no rights to free speech)!~
What we need is a technological solution to the problem. I think an AdBlock type approach would work - the phone would automatically hang up calls without ringing (perhaps playing back a "Do not call this number again" automated message beforehand) from numbers on a blacklist synced daily via wifi or dial-up. Additionally, should a call somehow get through, there would be a nice big red "Ban" button that would add a number to a local list and submit it to the list maintainer during the next sync. If a sufficient number of users ban a number, it would be added to the blacklist. Simple and, with the right number of users, effective.
May the source be with you.
I once read an article, I think it was by Bill Gates, about reversing charges.
You could add people that wouldnt get charged at all (e.g. your parents) and set your own rates (unknown caller can call me during dinner, but it will cost them $5 a minute. )
That sounded like a very good idea. After all, it IS my phone, so I want to be able to decide who is allowed to bother me.
I've been looking for that article for a while, but I cant find it. Anybody?
Either A) whoever modded you "insightful" WHOOSH'ed, or B) I failed to take you seriously because your point makes no sense.
Please, let it be A.
Yes, when taxation captures externalities, it helps the market function better.
Which does not make it market-based.
I don't think illegal robo callers will send there caller id.
Fine print is only part of the problem. I once read through a contract (it almost sounds un-American to do so) and came upon a large paragraph. It was in a normal font of about 12 pts. It was so intentionally obfuscated and filled with legalese that it was almost impossible to understand. It was about 10 lines long and it consisted of a SINGLE sentence! This sort of nonsense has got to stop. There was a movement to ban legalese and maybe that movement has to be revived. At the very least it has to be scaled back.
But the robo callers were so easy to defeat. Just let the phone ring for at least six times before picking up. Either the robocaller gave up and hung up, or when you did pick up, there was dead air and you could hang up quickly. Now there'll always be a person on the other end.
It should be illegal to own robocall equipment unless you are a school or government agency (such as a police/fire department).
-- I Am Not A Terrorist.
If you are on the do-not-call list, you won't get any calls ANYWAY.
The problem I have is from the 'oh-so-many' organizations, now (including my local Salvation Army Store!), that robocall for charity -- and I have NOT done business with them.
I think they get their numbers from the public phone book -- I rarely get calls on an unpublished number (have to pay extra for), but get scads on my public number.
would also eliminate regulations that personally benefit them
You're amazed that some people would give up perks to protect your freedoms? That's pretty much the basis of our society.
the Right induces a pathology in approximately 33% of the population
Yes, anybody who you disagree with must be mentally ill. Left and Right are bogus indicators, anyway.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)