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Microsoft Holding 'Screw Google' Meetings In DC
Runaway1956 writes "Microsoft's chief Washington lobbyist has been convening regular meetings, attended by the company's outside consultants, that have become known by some beltway insiders as 'screw Google' meetings, DailyFinance has learned. The meetings are part of an ongoing campaign by Microsoft, other Google opponents, and hired third parties to discredit the Web search leader, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the matter. 'Microsoft is at the center of a group of companies who see Google as a threat to them in some combination of business and policy,' said a source who requested anonymity to avoid retribution. 'The effort is designed to make Google look like the big high-tech bad guy here.'"
can't say I'm surprised.
I've been holding some pretty good 'screw Microsoft' meetings for years in the toilet.
Nothing new here...
Joking aside; a little farther and these meetings could been seen as illegal collusion.
Anyone else reading "other third parties" as "politicians"?
...the kettle called to say "YOU"RE BLACK".
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
Microsoft and its cronies are wasting time. They forget that it all comes down to what people want to use, choice in this case.
I just did a fresh install of xp and ie8. It was maddening trying to set google as my default search engine AND to remove bing from the list. It was definitley setup up in way to make it unintuitive.
http://p8ste.com - Web based Clipboard
Actually, you know, I'm kinda getting nostalgic. In ye goode olde days, even just a "Microsoft exists" would generate a flurry of pure hate, and let's not even get into news of such obviously evil behaviour as offering a free CLI version of their compiler. Now as of the time I've hit "Reply To This" were only 5 replies, and mostly moderate stuff. It hardly looks like the proper "screw Microsoft and the horse they rode in on" parties we used to hold :P
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
All these competitors must be very desperate if they organize themselves instead of competing with one another. And I don't mean desperate as in "making less profit" or even "running at a loss", I mean desperate as in "about to be finished in the near future".
This is the best advertisement for Google I can imagine. It's basically Microsoft and there other competitors advising you to put your money on Google.
Bing means disease in Chinese.
Just saying.
This is like the internal campaign Dell had going several years ago while I worked there, and I'm sure every company has something like that, even if it's only as a joke, or to improve employee morale.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Meh. Were I a Microsoft stockholder, I would sue them for malfeasance if they didn't exhaust every cost-effective, competitive resource available.
Every large corp. lobbies the government for market favoritism. Any large corp. that doesn't is screwing its shareholders.
The problem is that you can do this at all, when the government is supposed to regulate (i.e.: even out) commerce and promote the general welfare (i.e.: not pick winners and losers).
--
Toro
Whoah! Looks like MS might be right on this one. After some detective work worthy of Sherlock Holmes, I have uncovered this.
...Google has been convening with other companies that see Microsoft as a threat and trying to lobby different Washington interest groups "Microsoft as a big bad technology company".
I.e. a practise otherwise discribed as a standard procedure of strategic competition in corporate America. You don't have to like it, but it's not exactly news. Catching them in the act of trying to bribe a congressmen/senators would be news.
In a competition, the playing field is level and the one who works the best or the hardest or the most efficient wins.
We need a new word for the kinds of "competitive behavior" we see where the focus isn't about making better stuff or providing better services, but is instead focused on bringing down the people around you. In competitive sports, there are rules against such behavior. We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
Microsoft is very easy to criticize because they are very well focused on bringing the competition down instead of working to make themselves more competitive. They need to have their language license revoked when their describe their behavior as "competitive" and "innovative." The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated. Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
That would make sense that at least one or two politicians (or their aids) would attend. But if they were to attend, would they be friend, foe or observer?
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
microsoft not only has dominance on the desktop & laptops, they also have damn near 100% market share in the EVIL department too.
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
All major corporations have strategic meetings about their main competition. Why is this so different just because its Mircosoft doing it?
Or is news really that slow today?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I agree with you about that. It seems obvious that Microsoft would rather try to bash their competitors and hold them down until they drown than to compete on the merits. But they can't do it by themselves.
A previous poster described this as collusion. Conspiracy might be a better word, but that might be construed as a "theory" rather than something that was actually documented.
Now if Microsoft is having meetings with their competitors to take down Google, I have to wonder just how cooperative Microsoft really is. Given the level of paranoia exhibited by MS, anyone MS deals with is a potential threat to them. The vast majority of partners and collaborators with Microsoft have wound up either dead or permanently handicapped. I wonder if all of the attendees at those meetings have considered that trend. To see the trend, go here.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Italy was invited.
The effort is designed to make Google look like the big high-tech bad guy here.
If your effort has widely become known as the "screw Google" meeting, it seems to me that you're doing a pretty bad job of it. Of course, this is DC... cash can easily substitute for credibility.
Like last year's prom queen spiking the punch. Maybe if she hadn't turned into a total bitch, people would still give a shit what she has to say.
Do you see what I did there?
It is a shame that Microsoft feels it is unable to compete in the marketplace, and now must walk the shadowy halls and back rooms of Washington DC in order to stay relevant.
I love the irony of holding regular smear meetings in order to make others look like the bad guy.
If BING was one of the attempts to "screw Google" then Microsoft are playing Pee Wee Morris to Google's Lassie.
No, that's already being used --> https://ssl.scroogle.org/
Leave no chair unturned!
Google is on the verge of monopolistic powers... already have that in search. Being in control of search is much more scarier to me than in control of PC platforms. If you hate Microsoft, you should also hate/fear Google.
Journal
Upon a -fresh- install of IE8, you are -asked- what default search provider (and accelerator and a few other things) you want, and Google is in those lists.
You are wrong. I just did it yesterday, and the only choice I had was to leave the default search provider set to bing, or I was allowed to delay my switch to another provider once the setup wizard had completed.
http://p8ste.com - Web based Clipboard
The new details about Microsoft's D.C.-based efforts to undermine Google shine a light on the role of third-party firms, funded by tech giants, that engage in activities such as astroturfing, corporate propaganda, and misinformation. Media reports have hinted at a "whisper campaign" undertaken by entities acting at Microsoft's behest to undermine Google, both with policymakers and the public.
Coupled with Microsoft's long standing campaign to influence social media discussions in technical forums, like this one. Instead of investing that money in making better products, we've come to the point where success has to include not only dominating the market, but influencing social media and the regulatory environment. It's almost like their operating system business is an afterthought for Microsoft these days. They're not about building better products as much as hanging on to their market share and putting down competition.
Remind me again why the artificial person that is a corporation deserves the same freedom of speech protections as an individual? Seems like they sort of have an unfair advantage already when it comes to getting their free speech packaged and distributed.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Thank you for this interesting combination of lunatic fantasy and revisionist history. Well done.
Gee, I wonder where all of these anti-trust concerns came from regarding Google? Gee, I wonder why Eric Schmidt and Arthur Levinson had to leave Apple's board? So, lame. And pathetic. I know some people will say that every company does this... And that's fine but it doesn't make it right. In fact it just makes MS look... lame and pathetic. Oh we can't compete let's lobby!
The time is not far off when all will realise that Google Earth is not simply the name of an application but our destiny !
Here's the procedures for the major browsers as I find them 'intuitively'; e.g. I'll double-click an item expecting a dialog of options to come up.. in lieu of that, or in the case of fields, I right-click the thing expecting a fly-out of options.
There might be shorter routes, but in that case they weren't very intuitive -to me-.
I had to cheat for FireFox's Address bar, doing a google search, to find out that setting was hidden in about:config .
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IE8
As above, but please note that it's the dropdown -next to- the search box, on the right of the magnifying glass.
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For the remaining exercises, let's try adding Bing to the others (for demonstration purposes - though I guess if you like Bing...), making it the default, and then removing it again.
=====
FireFox 3.5 (3.5.1) - 'Default' Search: Google
-----
Adding Bing
-----
1. Click on the drop-down arrow on the left hand side of the search field
2. Select "Manage Search Engines..."
3. Click on the "Get more search engines..." option
You will now be presented with the FireFox add-ons website. None of the top-listed options are the major search engines, and bing is nowhere to be found in page 1, so...
4. enter "Bing" in the search field
5. change the "within" dropdown to "Search Tools"
6. click the big green Search btton
7. the first result should be the official, Microsoft bing! team-supplied, search engine. Click on the Download Now button
8. click on Accept [the license] and Install (if you want, read the license first.. It's Ms-PL)
A "Add Search Engine" dialog will now pop up
9. Click the Add button. ( You can check the "Start using it right away" option if you want, but that won't make it the default. )
-----
Making Bing the default (while adding: n/a; from scratch only)
-----
FireFox doesn't really have a 'default search'. It will simply use whatever you have selected last in the search field.
One could argue, however, that any junk entered into the address bar, which leads to a search engine (guess which?), is akin to a default search engine. So to that point...
1. Enter "about:config" in the address bar.
1.5. If you haven't previous ignored the "This might void your warranty!" (what warranty would that be, Mozilla? Tongue-in cheek humor, eh?) warning, click the "I'll be careful, I promise!" button.
2. Double-click on the entry "keyword.URL" (scroll down, use filter, not counting that as a 'step')
3. Enter the string: "http://www.bing.com/search?q="
(For arbitrary engines, you'll have to figure out which part of the address is the keyword bit and make sure that's the last item, etc.)
4. Click the OK button
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Removing Bing
-----
1. Click on the drop-down arrow on the left hand side of the search field
2. Select "Manage Search Engines..."
3. Select the Bing item
4. Click on the Remove button
5. Click OK
=====
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Google Chrome 2 (2.0.172.43) - Default Search: Google ( XD )
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Adding Bing
-----
1. Right-click on the address/search bar
2. Choose "Edit Search Engines..." from the context menu
3. Click the Add button
4. Enter as Name: "Bing"
5. Enter as URL: "http://www.bing.com/search?q=%s"
(For arbitrary engines, you'll have to figure out which part of the address is the keyword bit and make sure to place a "%s" in the place where the keyword would occur.)
6. Click the OK button
7. Click the Close button
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Making Bing the default - from having added it
-----
( do not follow step 7 above )
7. Click the "Make Default" button.
8. Click the Close button.
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Making Bing the default - from scratch
-----
1. Right-click on the address/search bar
2. Choose "Edit Search Engines..." from the context menu
3. Select "Bing"
4. Click the "Make Default" button.
5. Click the Close button.
-----
Removing Bing
-----
1. Right-clic
VICTORIA, Steampunk Britain, Thursday -- An all-out Microsoft rocket attack on Google's London office yesterday caused a small fire from a ruptured gas cylinder, a reminder of the browser and search engine wars and Microsoft's overwhelming might.
The six-story-tall Microsoft mecha, approaching from the direction of Victoria Station, unleashed an all-out attack, belching amusing farts of smoke from its Zune HD assault flamethrowers, before halting with an E74 error and collapsing onto the top of the building, where Google employees were enjoying their regular Thursday afternoon barbecue roasting a Snow Leopard on a spit.
Four fire engines and twenty firefighters in hazmat suits were sent out after reports of Vista fumes in the area.
The attack came a day after a Microsoft suicide car bomber killed seven cockroaches and gave himself a papercut when his car computer bluescreened. Microsoft disclaimed responsibility, asserting it was a completely independent suicide commando who only coincidentally happened to be in the pay of their PR agency.
The BBC has reported Microsoft's complete victory in the battle, with extensive Zune downloads in Silverlight format of the victorious Seattle Revolutionary Army in action.
Illustration: The destruction of the Isengard data centre
http://rocknerd.co.uk
... from Google's business.
Microsoft has to get more money for share holders. Google's money sources are better than their "original" money coming from Windows selling.
Do you own shares from Microsoft or Google? If both, which one's shares you perefer?
In Capitalist West, MS screws Google in front of you.
In Soviet USA, AT&T, Apple, Google, MS and the NSA screw you.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Take a chill pill, fanboy. Yes, I get it. In your little world, everyone who isn't at Microsoft's throat, must be some kind of "Microsoft drone" and "acting like victimized kittens".
Meanwhile, the rest of us have better things to attach our self-esteem to, than to either corporation. You know, actual personal achievements, not "I barked for my corporate master like a good doggy today." I swear some people should have been four-legged.
Briefly: rest assured that some of us are merely amused at the whole butthurt fanboy act, rather than being pro-Microsoft. But, then again, if you had enough brain to understand that, you wouldn't be a fanboy in the first place.
But, yes, thanks for amply illustrating my point. It's exactly that kind of idiotic fanboy foaming at the mouth act that I was referring to.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Well, if the median age _dropping_ has caused more professionalism and less butthurt fanboy acts, I guess that's a heck of a vindication of teenagers. You know, since the stereotype about 14 year olds is the other way around :P
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
In ye goode olde days, even just a "Microsoft exists" would generate a flurry of pure hate
The problem with this was that the two minutes hate often didn't last much more then two minutes, and was a bit repetitive and superficial. For recidivist agents of spiteful malevolence such as Microsoft, even a detailed two decades hate would not suffice.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
In competition No the playing field isnt always level, some teams are way better than others and even the good guys will lose quite often BUT
at least everyone in theory is playing by the same rules.
Google is winning because people like their search engine, it works and even 6 year olds can and do use it.
Microsoft often won, and they got in trouble for this, because they owned many of the playing fields and made the rules and told the teams they sponsored about hidden ways of getting an edge on their fields that werent in the rulebook.
I dont really care if Microsoft is selfish as long as they play by the rules and make good products...because Microsoft does make some very good products. Microsoft Publisher is a very good product, there is nothing in open source that comes even close.
Microsoft, we have taught you well.
when you say 'Click' do i right-click again?
(can't tell you how many times i've been asked that during a 'support' call...)
While simple for people who can bounce between operating system and program interfaces but MOST people don't even (our mac friends inc(de)luded), don't even know there is such a thing as a right click - let alone what it is for.
While you agonizingly make your point, the reality is that FF & Chrome users DON"T WANT TO USE BING. If Bing is a tool it is the one in the bin at the grocery store as you wait in line to checkout. Or in the 100 yard long aisl to checkout at Fry's.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
It basically boils down to Google does things people like, Microsoft does things people don't like. For example, Windows ME. As one person above mentioned, there was a spike in Microsoft hating around the time Windows ME came out. And for good reasons. Google on the other hand makes cool stuff. Also explains why Apple is liked so much more than Microsoft.
Besides that, Microsoft has proven time and again that it is dangerous to do business with them: they not only destroy their competition, they will destroy their business partners if it makes them a buck.
Qxe4
Well it wasn't intended as a tech support manual. I daresay if you ask *some* people to right-click a button, they'll move the cursor on the right-hand side of the button and click it using the left mouse button. :)
Also.. the left mouse button is the on that is usually on the top, and not on the left -side- of the mouse (as some mice have buttons there).
We can keep this up all day - I'm sure you got the post just fine
"While you agonizingly make your point, the reality is that FF & Chrome users DON"T WANT TO USE BING." ;)
I used Bing as an example - I could have said AltaVista, or Baidu (hi China), or The Pirate Bay for all I care.
Just because Google is, by a huuuuuuuuuuuge margin, the most popular Search engine, and is the default search engine for all of the other major browsers (none, other than Google, of which are owned by any company that also happen to make a search engine), doesn't take away that the procedures in other browsers can also be a little... daunting, at times (if not just completely impossible).
If you're saying "well nobody wants to use any other search engine anyway, and those who do - well it's okay for them to suffer the pains"... right-o then
This is an excellent post, but let me provide an alternative explanation for Opera 10.00 (not sure if it works in 9, but it probably does...):
1. Navigate to www.bing.com
2. Right-click on search element and select "Create Search"
3. Enter a keyword. (since bittorrent is gone in Opera 10, I just select b by default)
4. Expand the window with the "Details >>" button
5. Tick the dialog boxes next to "Use as default search engine" and "use as Speed Dial search engine as appropriate" and click OK
6. The next tab you open will have a Bing search bar.
====
I do believe this is the simplest way to add a search to any browser. I may have expanded my steps more than the OP, though.
Just tested - yep, works in 9 as well.
That's -very- nifty - thanks for the heads-up - but to loop it back to this discussion... is it intuitive?
e.g. if you hadn't heard of it, or happened to spot it while e.g. copying/pasting into any field (as apparently it adds this for -any- text form field.. which makes it very powerful, though nonsensical for many fields), would you have expected that to be the way you -could- add a search engine?
My post was more expanded, actually, counting any reasonable interaction... for this, it would have been..
1. go to website
2. right-click on search field
3. choose Create Search...
4. enter a keyword
5. click OK
or
5. click "Details >>"
6. Check the "Use as default search engine"
7. Click OK
Again, though, that's an awesome feature. Must head on over to FF Add-ons to see if there's an FF version of this.
No, the real issue is that Google has found a delivery model that is almost entirely platform-neutral. As long as you've got a browser that's capable of handling Google's AJAX apps, you can access their services. It doesn't matter whether it's a PC, a Mac or a smart phone. Microsoft is just going to have to bloody well compete in the modern market place, and while it's starting to, it's history since the mid-1990s of competing with any of the leading web portals has been dismal. They weren't even able to take on Yahoo when it was king of the hill.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
oh, silly me. I guess that would be the "Add a Keyword for this Search..." option.. I'd already forgotten about that. Although it technically doesn't add it as an option in the drop-down, but only through a keyword prefix in the address bar (probably why I'd already forgotten). /nokarma
Google is no better than Microsoft, they just have a PR firm that has managed the nerd-cred more effectively.
That is simply wrong.
1: MS have a long history of abusing their monopoly. Google haven't.
2: You can easily switch away from the Google stuff that you use. You can not easily switch away from your MS stuff.
Okay, Google may be an evil corporation, but they haven't done anything obviously evil yet. I think...
I think perhaps you should have waited until IE8 actually started and ran for the first time. At first run, I am taken to a page where I can choose anything and everything. I invariably turn off all accelorators, change my home page, and change my search engine at that first run, restart IE8 to check that my changes took, then never run IE8 again.
Yeah, this is my own MS bashing article, but let's bash MS for the things they do wrong. The fact is, installation and first run of IE8 makes it tolerably good. And, I'll also mention that IE7 and IE8 both went a long way toward actually securing Windows against malware. Not nearly far enough, but it's a tremendous improvement over IE5 and IE6.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Don't forget the whole "Don't be Evil" thing. Notice that Google is not having "Screw Microsoft" meetings in DC, and if they did, everyone would be shocked. It's funny how much this sort of thing effects company actions. Overall, I'm a fan of both Microsoft and Google, but I trust Google to be a better steward of things I care about, like a digital on-line library. You have to like Bill Gates for his foundation, and for supporting the disabled with special Windows features, but his company has been ruthless and underhanded in business for decades.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
After a trip to Brazil, RedHat's Tiemann was told that the Foundation requires that MS have "cabinet level access" to the government and that MS products be used in any projects the Foundation is involved. If there is a shred of truth to this whatsoever than I cannot regard the actions of the Foundation as true charity. Rather it is the most dishonorable sort of influence peddling.
Well... that sounds VERY much like Microsoft, but they are saving lives, and educating children. They have to get some credit for the good they do.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
You wouldn't mind answering a simple question, would you? Are you a neocon, or a republican? Wait - scratch that. The question is better phrased as, Are you a rabid neocon, or a foaming at the mouth republican?
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
You're doing things the hard way...
To add Bing, you just visit www.bing.com and click the link in the upper-right that says "Add Bing to your browser." (Actually, I'm not sure what browsers this supports, but at least IE and Firefox. I've done it.)
Comment of the year
We need a new word for the kinds of "competitive behavior" we see where the focus isn't about making better stuff or providing better services, but is instead focused on bringing down the people around you. In competitive sports, there are rules against such behavior. We can't have ice skaters bashing in the knees of other ice skaters now can we?
Microsoft is very easy to criticize because they are very well focused on bringing the competition down instead of working to make themselves more competitive. They need to have their language license revoked when their describe their behavior as "competitive" and "innovative." The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated. Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
War?
The requested URL
Tracking != abusing.
Recommended reading: any recent EULA by Microsoft.
And compare it to license agreements which come with Google products.
Regards,
Ruemere
Microsoft can't bring out anything to compete with Google. It fails in search, fails in consumer electronics (Other than the XBox, but they are unreliable).
It has had an unpopular Windows launch, competition from Apple in the computer market and phones.
They're a sore loser, their empire can't last forever. Perhaps if they were nicer people and spoke to their competitors instead of trying to blitz them off the face of the planet then they might come across as people that you want to buy from or work with?
Nonetheless, the "education" probably is intended to make the kids dependent on Microsoft products forever...
$ make available
Agreed
I think google earth is a very cool app that improves with each successive release.
On the other hand, I absolutely loathe everything M$ have done. Sure, they brought personal computing to the masses. Then they proceeded to ass rape all those new customers with shit products like windoz95 while dominating the market.
I will never again use any of their products period.
Just die already!
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
I don't notice that, actually. I'm not in a position to know what high level strategy meetings Google holds and with who so just because I'm not privy to them, doesn't mean I assume they can't be happening (or would be shocked if I found out that they were). After all, given that Google is clearly not run by idiots, then it's implausible to think that they don't have meetings to plan how they'll take profit away from Microsoft. And if they did have such meetings, and somebody somewhere decided to call it a "screw Microsoft" meeting, then how would that be different to what we're seeing now, except that the actors would be different. Google throws plenty of money around in Washington, hiring former senators, lobbying firms and sons of politicians. What do you think that money goes toward? It's not buying office supplies, it's buying the "friendships" of people. There's a word for that, and the word smells as bad whether its Google or Microsoft footing the bill.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause. Anyone know of a word that describes this sort of behavior? Perhaps a few from psychology text books might well fit in here somewhere.
How about Machiavellian?
You wouldn't mind answering a simple question, would you? Are you a neocon, or a republican? Wait - scratch that. The question is better phrased as, Are you a rabid neocon, or a foaming at the mouth republican?
Dear sir, while your gentlemanly approach is appreciated by those with fully function brains, I fear your liberal form of criticism is lost on this pug. --As I strongly suspect the man is simply barking mad. Or a mangy troll.
-FL
While we're here, does anyone know any reason for believing Google *is* evil? I ask people on occasion, but they're never able to point out anything rational, they just point into the darkness and tell me what *might* be out there...
No, that's already being used --> https://ssl.scroogle.org/
And Microsoft would NEVER use anybody else's IP.........
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
They're called Anti-Competitive Practicies, they're at times illegal in most western countries, Microsoft was found guilty of them in the US, and the US government rolled over and did nothing because "[some] advocates of laissez-faire capitalism (such as Monetarists, some Neoclassical economists, and the heterodox economists of the Austrian school) reject the term, seeing all "anticompetitive behavior" as forms of competition that benefit consumers." Feel free, especially, to read the part about "natural monopolies" and consider how many Republicans are so inclined to end regulation.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
Now we know where they are when they aren't in their screw the customer meetings ;-)
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Notice that Google is not having "Screw Microsoft" meetings in DC
I'd be very surprised at Google if they did this... What did they spend all that time creating Wave for?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
It basically boils down to Google does things people like, Microsoft does things people don't like. ... Also explains why Apple is liked so much more than Microsoft.
Let's see. Last night Mrs. Baur was telling me about an American who was killed in Cebu recently. I tried to find the article on the Philippine Inquirer website - no joy. In despair, I tried googling it and found the story and one of the links pointed back to the Inquirer.
I love my Macbook Pro. The user interface feels good. It's a logical evolution of the NeXTStep interface I learned to love with Windowmaker over a decade ago. I can have X11 apps running on the same screen as native Mac apps, all my remote work apps Just Work. I can play World of Warcraft. The dashboard is very cool and it does virtual desktops. Oh and /bin/zsh is installed by default. The only annoyance is that sometimes the bluetooth mouse goes a little crazy, but it's not enough to spoil the "experience".
Most of my Microsoft Windows experience was with XP a couple of years ago. A single desktop Just Plain Sucks. Not being able to fix the Big Key to the left of the A key to work as Control as God intended it to be, Just Plain Sucks. Not having access to a Unix Shell Just Plain Sucks.[1] Having it crash all the time (at least once a week) Just Plain Sucks. Oh and let's not get into the involuntary ALT-TAB of death in the middle of battles in WoW.
So let's see, I have a choice between things I enjoy using and get value out of, or I can use something that makes me want to drive a screwdriver through my forehead.
[1] I know there's Cygwin around somewhere, but this is the same sort of argument Microsofties use against Linux, so it's fair that I use it too.
Wow, just wow. You took the ONLY non-internet service they provide (or will provide), completely changed how it is going to function and THEN used it as a completely invalid argument against a completely valid comment.
And the troll award goes to: BONCH!!!!!
Right. but I would refrain from using words like "conspiracy" or "collusion", anything which paints this as criminal so quickly. Businesses can form alliances. They do form alliances against other businesses, and historically consumers and regulators have allowed this. Microsoft is paranoid, but so is any highly successful company that's being threatened by game-changing competitors. It's clear Google is a different kind of competitor, otherwise Microsoft would have been able to deal with Google sooner.
These meetings could very well be the stuff of movies, men in trenchcoats meeting at the docks at midnight to discuss putting a hit on Google; OR they can be one of a hundred strategy meetings that competitors in a common industry hold together annually. Until I see Ballmer tossing molotov cocktails, I'm just going to assume that this was an ordinary business meeting with donuts and bad coffee.
No, I'm just doing things the browser-centric way, which is what the GP's post was about :)
What you mentioned works in Chrome as well - it should work for any browser that is compatible with OpenSearch. But that is search engine-centric, and a different topic (every search engine should offer such a link, for sure, as that would be -the- most intuivite method).
Um, the *future* Google OS is just going to be a branded Linux platform. Unless, and I don't know how they would manage it, they block anyone from running any code they want to, there'll be nothing stopping people from running Firefox, or heck, installing Wine and running Internet Explorer. If Google truly wanted that kind of lock in, then they ought to be like Apple and the iPhone.
But hey, don't let any sense of accuracy or even logic get in the way of trying to score one against Google.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Isn't this news a key part of the big "Screw Microsoft" campaign?
Does running a Google operating system that only runs a Google browser and ties into Google web services by default really count as "platform-neutral?"
Yes, it really does.
The Google OS doesn't provide any functionality that you can't get from Google web services on any other platform, so there is no bundling, tying, or extending any kind of monopoly.
Furthermore, the Google OS's platform is the hardware, and Google OS is platform neutral because it is open source, based on Linux, and already runs on a wide variety of (hardware) platforms.
but they are saving lives, and educating children
Microsoft isn't doing any of that. Bill Gates is doing that with his own money.
But the comparison shouldn't be of Bill Gates doing it vs nobody doing it, it should be Bill Gates doing it vs other people doing it with their own money if Bill Gates hadn't sucked the money out of their pockets with his monopoly pricing.
Labor unions have been targeting Wal-Mart for years. Why is it Ok for these trusts — entities existing solely to maintain and raise the price of their members' services — to target a business, instead of getting the taste of anti-trust laws?
Microsoft — even after partnering with Yahoo! — is far from holding a noticeable chunk of the search market. I'm pretty sure, they can do anything they want to, when challenging the dominant player, while the Google's hands are somewhat tied by the anti-monopoly legislation...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I would be inclined to agree with you. However, all the arm twisting that went on with the OOXML adoption process at the ISO level suggests that Microsoft may be willing to go a lot farther.
Did you read about the smear campaign against Peter Quinn in Massachusetts? How about the stacking of the committee responsible for approving and working on the defects in the OOXML "standard"? Maybe these events show no crime, maybe not.
Yes, it's probably true that these meetings aren't collusion or a conspiracy. But it might also be equally true that to MS, it isn't illegal until they get caught. I guess I can say that I take a fairly pessimistic view of Microsoft in light of their history, and that we just happen to disagree on how to describe these meetings.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Whatever the word, it needs to convey the abandonment of fair play principles of competition and the selfish and callous disregard for others in the damage they cause.
That word is "war".
(meeting chairman) - "Google has a functional, viable and popular product, and we don't."
(second voice, Boston drawl) - "Whadda we gonna do aboud' it?"
No, no sig. Really.
ThePromenader
If you want to read about Google paying money to hire former senators or the son of the Speaker of the House (and they're not hired to do "work" in the sense that you or I would think of it, they're hired for their influence), then such information is documented, undisputed and easily found.
:)
As to accusations of bias in lieu of being able to dispute anything I've ever said, I am not nor have I been, employed by Microsoft. At best, they were one of several purchasers of software I worked on years ago that a former employer produced. I have no financial stake in this, just a distaste for hypocrisy and / or naivety. And I can't get you a copy of Windows 7, but I can send you a link to the Gentoo website which is my preferred OS, if that helps?
Regards,
H.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
We want to use Google's service but we want to bash them for making money off of it.
I don't think that's what they are saying. Using SSL simply hides your search terms from others (eg. your employer), your ISP, etc. It doesn't affect what google sees are gets paid for.
I think the difference between Google and Microsoft is that Microsoft's Business Model is based on customer lock-in. It's well known and documented. They do this by deliberately creating incompatabilities, MS-only "standards", formats, etc.
Google has become sucessful by creating the best search engine. You always have the choice of using the search engine you like best. But, most people use Google because they feel it is better.
that only runs a Google browser
You can run firefox, opera and ephinany under Chrome OS.
but they are saving lives, and educating children
I think we need to temper that a little. What could have been done with the Money these governments are spending on MS products becasuse they are locked in?
The word "bully" comes to mind, but I fear it is too simplistic and doesn't adequately describe the depth of planning and focus demonstrated.
Strategic bullying?
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
And if they did have such meetings, and somebody somewhere decided to call it a "screw Microsoft" meeting, then how would that be different to what we're seeing now, except that the actors would be different.
The operative word there is "If". I don't know what Google's meetings are like, but what I do know is what they are doing and what they are pushing for in Washington. Google's efforts seem to be for open standards and web freedom, MS is lobbying to try to force the government to use MS products.
I live near Munich and watched as MS tried to force the city government to use Windows. They tried every trick in the book, and most of them involved strong-arm tactics rather than fighting to compete by providing the better product.
They lost that battle and the entire project cost is only slightly more than what the licenses for Windows and Office would have cost for the time period. Going forward they are saving millions of Euros.
I have no issue with any company competing or even with proprietary solutions and if MS were to compete on that basis, more power to them, but that is not their business model.
Sure, they brought personal computing to the masses.
Apple II? Commodore 64? Amiga?
Remember that MS got big by supplying DOS to IBM.
Google may track my usage of their websites, but they don't track my usage of other websites. They also don't track other things I do on my PC. As one poster pointed out, you should read the EULA of any MS product if you want to see what MS tracks.
And, you always have the option with Google to use anothe search engine. You could use Bing, for example, but I suspect they are gathering the same information (or more) that google does.
Exactly!
Any company that is big business and makes money is evil.
In fact, anyone that makes more money then me is probably evil for, too.
There is no way for anyone to make money in the evil US without being evil.
So, how do I know, that this topic is not a result of Google's evil anti-microsoft meeting?
Until that happens they've got no fucking chance.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Ah, but you can donate x million dollars "worth of" software quite easily when the CDs cost a buck or less each to press, and claim the $500 donation of the software as a tax deduction...
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Microsoft is just going to have to bloody well compete in the modern market place
They can do that. They did it once before, when Bill Gates realized the Internet was leaving them behind. It will be harder for them to do it again, because they no longer have a visionary (if only a commercial visionary) in charge of the company, but they can do it.
And oh, just to make myself clear, out of the ten PCs in my home, only one, an old laptop, runs Windows, and that's only so I can see how viewers on the Windows platform will experience our websites.
I'm don't drink Windows koolade; I simply look at what's happening in the world.
That is what a US federal judge call msft tactics.
I know, M$ are such poor losers, instead of bringing their game, to a new level, they would rather whine about how much higher this level is NOW because of the new kid on the team...jesus! Google has done nothing but try to improve the internet experience....and now M$ is looking for bugs at any costs...instead of looking at THEIR own bugs, and fixing them!
If I could, I would bitch slap Balmer...and throw HIM a chair!