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Game Over For Sony and Open Source?

Posted by Soulskill on from the forsaken-beards dept.

Glyn Moody writes "Sony has never been much of a friend to hackers, and its infamous rootkit showed what it thought of users. But by omitting the option to install GNU/Linux on its new PS3, it has removed the final reason for the open source world to care about Sony. Unless, of course, you find Google's new distribution alliance with Sony to pre-install Chrome on its PCs exciting in some way."

40 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Buy a damned computer, or one of the mobiles you can install Linux on.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Who Cares by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 4, Insightful

      without the use of most of the computing power when you actually put linux on it, it seemed gimped to begin with. In other words they weren't exactly being open source friendly from the start any way.

    2. Re:Who Cares by vadim_t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A console is a computer, just with annoying restrictions tacked on.

      But generally good advice, that's why I don't buy consoles in general, and avoid Sony like the plague.

    3. Re:Who Cares by zindorsky · · Score: 3, Informative

      Buy a damned computer, or one of the mobiles you can install Linux on.

      Maybe you should RTFA before posting ...

      Of course there are a million machines you can install Linux on, but the PS3 was particularly nice because of its Cell architecture. That allowed for some super-computer like performance for a low, low price. Lots of research institutions used PS3 clusters for low cost supercomputing. Now that future is jeopardized.

      --
      If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
    4. Re:Who Cares by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the article

      Sony explained their decision on the Playstation 2 developer forum, in a post that has since been removed:

      "The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes--this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3."

      And this is understable, seeing how much PS3 price has come down from its launch.

      Old PS3 owners still have the option, it just affects the 'slim' model.

    5. Re:Who Cares by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A console is a computer, just with annoying restrictions tacked on.

      But much cheaper, and with far less software glitches.

    6. Re:Who Cares by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For how many more months will the Old PS3 remain available with a hardware warranty?

      If you're interested in running Linux on a PS3, you probably already own one. If you don't, Sony has given you fair warning to get a "chubby" PS3 while they are still available.

      Besides, I don't think this is going to stop anyone from running Linux on the slim PS3. It's not like the iPhone comes with a "install other OS" option in the boot code.

    7. Re:Who Cares by Toonol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But it's DRM that has been completely inoffensive and pain-free. That's the difference. I don't have a problem with copy protection. I wouldn't mind nailed down DRM on my pc, if it simply stopped games from being copied. The problem with DRM on the pc is that it goes further than that... it tracks you, it breaks things, it modifies your setup, it takes away legitimate functionality, it hinders free development... It ends up being the Sony rootkit, which should have put some Sony execs in jail.

      If DRM meant that I always had to put the Starcraft 2 dvd in my computer when I wanted to play it, and NO OTHER RESTRICTION, I might actually buy the game. Instead, DRM seems to mean 'contact Blizzard every game for permission to play. Here's my IP, battlenet ID, etc., etc...'.

      Sigh. I'm sure console games will eventually go that route, though.

    8. Re:Who Cares by Khyber · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Slim PS3 might be more hackable without the hypervisor being around. Odds are greater that one could better unlock the power of the PS3 since there's no hypervisor restricting access to the hardware directly.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    9. Re:Who Cares by jpmorgan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nobody uses the PS3 for supercomputing these days. The ugly secret of the PS3 is that its 'extreme performance' was mostly marketing. While it was fairly fast at release, it is ridiculously complex to code for. You're talking about a machine with 9 distinct memory spaces, 4 instruction sets and 3 compilers. And while Sony may market it as having '2 teraflops' of performance, it only has about 450gflops of total programmable computation power. The vaunted Cell processor only clocks in at around 250GFlops, which you get pretty easily with Core i7 (Nehalem)... and it's a LOT easier to get peak performance out of the Core i7. Let me repeat that for emphasis it is mindbogglingly simpler to get peak performance out of the Core i7. And if you're willing to spend more a little time and money to code to a specialized platform, GPU computing with CUDA (and OpenCL once it matures) spanks the Cell. You can buy multi-GPU machines from NVidia that are pushing 4 teraflops programmable.

      Ultimately though, the biggest killer of the PS3 in supercomputing is all that power is single precision, and single precision only. You can get away with single precision SOMETIMES in scientific computing, but more often than not it's a deal breaker. Even when you can use single precision, it's often in a mixed precision context. The PS3 has no double precision support, and that kills it.

      The PS3 is awesome on paper, but in reality it's just awful.

    10. Re:Who Cares by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ooh, bad idea mentioned Orange Box.

      EA ported Orange Box to PS3 and Valve refuses to support it.

      That's not such a big deal for most of the games in it (excepting performance problems), but Team Fortress 2 has had continuing updates on the PC platform (and the Xbox 360 version has even had a few bugfix patches).

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    11. Re:Who Cares by thtrgremlin · · Score: 3, Funny

      You aren't very familiar with Sony, are you?

      --
      Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
    12. Re:Who Cares by nog_lorp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, you've never had a scratched disk and been forced to shell out another $60 bucks to get a game you already own?

      I also find it offensive and painful when I can't run my own code on my computer.

    13. Re:Who Cares by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The guy that owned the xbox and compromised the xbox360 security, claimed the only reason that the ps3 was safe from pirates was because they let you run all your otherOS/homebrew stuff, it will be interesting to see if this happens or if
      1) homebrew are happy using the older consoles
      2) homebrew try but fail to cack it
      3) pirates crack the new (weaker) ps3 without homebrew's help

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    14. Re:Who Cares by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My rerfigerator is a a computer. My thermostat is a computer. My car's engine has a computer. My remote control is a computer. I don't get persnickety about not being able to Linux on those devices. Why should I, or anyone else, get upset that I can't put Linux on a console? The other poster is right. If you want to install Linux and use it buy a device that lets you easily install and run arbitrary code. You'll never achieve the mythical "year Linux takes over the desktop" if you keep wasting time trying to put it on everything *BUT* desktop computers.

    15. Re:Who Cares by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pain free? have you ever heard of titles breaking,

      On a console? Is that like when PC games are released early in the alpha stage and the first 3 months are so are devoted to patching the game into a somewhat-workable state? And a broken console can't stop me from doing work (at least not directly, heh heh) but a broken PC means not only can I not play games, I probably can't work either.

      or that you have to pay for every add-on that PC users get free,

      Ah, but you can sell your console games when you're finished (for the most part). That's much better to me than getting some crappy after-the-fact add-ons.

      or that you can't upgrade your hardware like a PC and constantly stay up to date?

      You mean that crushing feeling you get when your PC that used to be bleeding edge gets sloooower and sloooower every time you install a newer game? Don't miss it.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  2. And both users of PS3 Linux were sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It didn't sell them any significant number of new PS3's. That they did it for the first generation was fine, but it's not a contract they signed in blood.

  3. Cost/Benefit by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    RTFA. Sony has chosen not to maintain the Hypervisor for the new hardware. You can still run linux on the old systems, and they do not plan to disable that feature. This isn't open source hate, it's a practical business decision by a company that loses money every time they sell a console. They made the console cheaper.

    --
    Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
    1. Re:Cost/Benefit by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And stopped people from buying it that weren't going to buy games and accessories with it.

      Yes, some gamers also installed Linux, but there were -many- people who bought it just to install Linux, for various reasons. Each of those sales was an absolute loss for Sony and it doesn't make sense to encourage it.

      I don't blame them one bit. Besides, I installed linux and it wasn't a very good experience on the PS3, between horrible installs and slowness and general awkwardness like having to choose what to load on reboot/etc. I ended up just putting a PC in the room instead.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Cost/Benefit by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to say it, but Sony probably lost more PS3 sales by removing the PS2 compatibility than they did removing the ability to run Linux.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    3. Re:Cost/Benefit by CronoCloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree, anyone who wanted to run Linux on a PS3 probably already has one. The slim model is not aimed at Sony's hardcore fanbase (who probably wanted backwards compatibility and already have a PS3) or open source geeks, but those who don't have one already.

      Sony said something similar when they released the slim PS2 without the hard drive bay: "Look, most likely anyone who wanted to play the few hard drive enabled games already has a fat PS2 because they're hardcore fans"

  4. Also saddened by the fact that ... by neonprimetime · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... PS3 Slim won't run PS2 discs

  5. Stupid Article. by Reason58 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm in the "open source world".

    Should I stop caring about Burger King because I can't run Linux on a Whopper?

    1. Re:Stupid Article. by Astroturtle · · Score: 5, Funny

      YES, DAMN IT. YES!

      --
      --- http://www.astroturtle.com
    2. Re:Stupid Article. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... Are you saying you got a Whopper to run Linux before?

      Link me to sauce.

      I mean source.

    3. Re:Stupid Article. by jpmorgan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Should I stop caring about Burger King because I can't run Linux on a Whopper?

      Of course you can't. That's what NetBSD is for!

  6. duh by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is that PS3's are cheaper sources of Cell processors than anything IBM is selling. If you want to set up (at a university say) a research cluster of 4 or 8 Cell based computers for astrophysics, datamining, or the like, it was cheaper to buy PS3's than even consider the IBM bought Cell based servers. But then you weren't buying games, and Sony wasn't getting financial credit for subsidizing academic research (if they donated the equipment it would be a tax write off likely but if you buy it they get nothing, and since they're selling at a loss they only want you to buy if you'll buy games too).

    Also, as amusingly geeky as this was, how many of their gaming customers actually bothered? This was never an actual selling feature of the system, they were trying to circumvent EU import tariffs on game consoles that aren't on computers. The EU didn't buy it with the PS2, I doubt they bought it with the PS3.

  7. I call BS by overlordofmu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I love my PS3.

    I love Linux.

    Sony is the only console maker that DID support Linux.

    They dropped the support because it was an rarely utilized feature and it was cheaper not to support it on the new model.

    I run Linux on all my PCs (2 laptops and 4 desktops) but never installed it on my PS3 (despite having partitioned my upgraded hard drive with room for it). I never felt the need to do so. I run a media server on two of the Linux boxes and I don't need the PS3 to be a 7th general purpose computer when that is not it's intended function as one and not designed for that purpose.

    This fanboy of Linux (and fanboy of Sony as well) doesn't care about the dropped support. I thank Sony for all the support up to this point and wish this platform continued success.

  8. Moody by whisper_jeff · · Score: 3, Funny

    After reading that summary and the completely transparent hatred for Sony in it I and forced to say that, yes, Glyn is Moody. ;)

  9. It didn't bring people to the platform by mo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to work for Sony developing PS2 games. The number of people I met that cut their teeth writing code on the linux kit before getting into the business was exactly 0. I might have been the only person I knew who even had a modchipped PS2, everybody else just didn't care since they had the PS2Tool on their desk to do development. Sony is probably discontinuing offering Linux because it didn't spark the development push that they had hoped for. Still, I would think this would limit the number of supercomputer clusters that use PS3's. You'd think the marketing benefits of being a platform in the top 100 supercomputers would be valuable, but perhaps Sony is still willing to work with academic institutions to make this possible still.

    1. Re:It didn't bring people to the platform by masmullin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It didn't spark the development push because Sony crippled the ability for Linux to use all of the hardware.

      If they wanted to spark development, they should have let the OtherOS have free reign.

  10. Re:They crippled it by CannonballHead · · Score: 4, Funny

    You mean, make it into a normal computer? ;)

  11. Re:They're Too Big to Write Off Entirely by hansamurai · · Score: 3, Informative

    Creator's Club is simply nothing like the OtherOS support Sony had. One is for developing XNA framework games and selling them on Xbox Live, the other is for turning your PS3 into a slightly gimped Linux box (gimped as in no direct access to GPU). They're targeted at completely different people and don't even serve remotely the same purpose.

    --
    Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
  12. Do we really need the commentary? by brkello · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just summarize the article, don't whine to me about how you don't like Sony. I am able to evaluate actions they take individually. Rootkit = bad. PS3 not supporting linux = good business decision. They are in no way related to each other since this isn't replacing Linux on the PS3 with a rootkit.

    And seriously wake up. If you get pissed at Sony for the dumb things they do, then you probably wouldn't buy a product from anyone if you actually paid attention to all the crap that has gone on in each company's history.

    --
    Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  13. I'm with you on this one. by Malkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree. This quote really made me giggle:

    But by omitting the option to install GNU/Linux on its new PS3, it has removed the final reason for the open source world to care about Sony.

    Unless they -- I don't know -- like playing console games, like the vast majority of people who buy game consoles. My microwave oven doesn't run Linux, either, but it somehow manages to still be useful to me.

    Honestly, I think out-of-touch rants like this only serve to further reinforce the "Linux zealot" stereotype, and drive the mainstream away from Linux.

    1. Re:I'm with you on this one. by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My microwave oven doesn't run Linux, either, but it somehow manages to still be useful to me.

      *whistles innocently*

      Don't be too sure about that. I've worked on embedded systems on consumer devices, and you'd be amazed at what runs Linux these days. Hardware manufacturers really like NOT paying license fees & royalties for their embedded firmware.

      --
      ---dragoness
  14. Be fair, now. by Toonol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All Sony has done is reverted to the status quo for game consoles. The Wii and 360 don't allow Linux to be run. While Sony should be praised for including a (mostly gimped) linux option with the PS3, they shouldn't be condemned any more than Nintendo or Microsoft for not including it. I'm not a Sony fan at all.

    There's FAR better things to criticize Sony about.

  15. Re:Actually not much of an option by Bluesman · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think you might be misinformed. I installed 3.0 yesterday, and the option is still there.

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  16. Re:Actually not much of an option by CronoCloud · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a CECHE01 PS3 with a Linux install on it, I updated to 3.00 without worrying about losing my ability to boot or install a newer Linux distro. The options are still there and they work, just like I still have the ability to virtual PS2 memory cards and play PS2 games even though PS3's newer than my model can't do that.

  17. Drupal by michaelcole · · Score: 4, Informative

    This headline is dramatic and uninformed. Linux isn't the only open source project out there.

    Sony has made huge contributions to the Drupal CMS (Website Content Management System).

    They have hired a full-time programmer who is 100% dedicated to open source (CCK/Views modules).
    They have sponsored major improvements to Drupal - http://drupal.org/node/383954

    Ease up on the rhetoric, before you sour other open-source projects.

    Maybe you want to couple your perceived right to hack the PS3 with open source? That's dangerous. Make an open-sourced PS3 and no problem. Mike