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Why Users Drop Open Source Apps For Proprietary Alternatives

maximus1 writes "Hard as it may be to imagine, 'free' is not always the primary selling point to open source software. This article makes some interesting points about subtle ways Open Source projects might lose to the competition. Lack of features is a common answer you'd expect, but the author points out that complicated setup and configuration can be a real turn-off. Moreover, open source companies may not do enough to market major upgrades. If they did, they might lure back folks who tried and dumped the earlier, less polished version. This raises the question: what made you dump an open source app you were using? What could that project have done differently?"

35 of 891 comments (clear)

  1. Stability by Ada_Rules · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On the verge of dumping firefox after years of use. 3.5.2 was horrible. 3.5.3 crashed within the first 5 minutes of use. The #1 reason I would dump any SW product is stability. If it can't perform its intended function without crashing then nothing else matters. Lets just hope I don't need to switch to Chrome to get this to post.

    --
    --- Liberty in our Lifetime
    1. Re:Stability by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Stability isn't the only issue. GIMP and Cinelerra under Linux are heaps more stable than Photoshop and Premiere under Windows, but that doesn't draw me away towards the open source side. In that case, as mentioned in the summary, feature set is high on the priority list there.

      I have done my best however to stick to FOSS as much as possible. I do prefer MS Office over OpenOffice, but I've stuck with the latter nonetheless, more because I *want* to like OO more than MSO. However, in the office, I've *had* to stick with MSO because while OO can read MSO originated files, doing a save/send in OO and then again in MSO and back again results in badly broken formatting. This isn't even MS's fault.

      Try creating a file in AbiWord. Save it. Open it in OO. Edit and save it. Open again in AbiWord. Broken formatting. ODF is not the panacea of perfect cross compatibility that it could and *should* be, and you can blame the elitism in the ODF committee for sticking to a misconceived notion that they should only set the semantics of the file and leave the syntax up to the implementers. The result? ODF implementations that, while semantically compatible, break each others' formatting syntax.

      Point? Oh yea, I have one. The reason that I moved my workplace away from open source software was because my illusion that ODF was the perfect answer to cross compatible documents was shattered when I accidentally opened an ODF file in AbiWord on another Ubuntu box, edited it, saved the changes, and found that it had made a mess when re-opened in OO. For me, the biggest draw away from MSO was destroyed, and my incentive to push upstream for ODF use was stymmied.

      This is an example where a community effort concentrates on solving the *technical* problem and forgets that there's a real, on the ground problem that needs to be solved as well, that may or may not be totally technical in nature. It represents for me the largest endemic problem within the open source community, and it really needs to be addressed if we are to present the open source model as a serious alternative to the proprietary/patent/copyright system.

      --
      I hate printers.
    2. Re:Stability by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Free software is free as in there are four freedoms that it is guaranteed to provide.

      Which are completely useless to the vast majority of people.

      This often translates to lower cost - especially in the long term as it makes vendor lock-in effectively impossible, but it doesn't have to mean no up-front cost or even no support cost.

      I'm not sure I buy this argument... lock-in only requires that nothing else can open your files. You can never be locked in to a particular plaintext editor, no matter how closed it is.

    3. Re:Stability by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      GIMP and Cinelerra under Linux are heaps more stable than Photoshop and Premiere under Windows

      What!? Cinelerra is the least stable program I've ever used, it dies every couple of minutes.

      It crashes so much that the tutorial starts off: "Cinelerra is not perfect. Before long you will be familiar with the tendency it has to crash. This usually takes the form of all the windows suddenly disappearing. Thankfully this is not often a big problem because Cinelerra can recover from a crash very well. Simply restart it and select Load Backup from the File menu."

      It crashes so much that the OpenSuse page on it has a section devoted to crashing, and running it within gdb as a matter of routine so it won't crash every time you close the "tip of the day" window.

      It crashes on Ubuntu. It crashes on gentoo.

      Its support for codecs (that actually work) is so sparse that simply finding a single path from source material to product is like crossing a minefield.

      Cinelerra is the perfect example of a program that never really converged to a useful state, it just slogs on like a zombie year after year, half dead, because there is no workable free alternative. Can I blame any of this on the fact that it's free and open? Not exactly, but if it were proprietary, it would have disappeared completely years and years ago.

    4. Re:Stability by frisket · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Stability isn't the only issue.

      Indeed not. Cross-compatibility is a pain, for sure; I don't know if OO and Abi talk to each other, but they shouldn't be making life hardes for the users by pursuing different models.

      For me, it's two things:

      • Documentation: it's written by developers for other developers, not for end users. A lot of it simply lists the menus and menu items, explaining the File|Save can be used to save your file. While this is needed at some level, it's not useful when you're looking for a function that is probably in there somewhere, but unfindable. I write tech doc; I'd love to contribute to the FOSS material, but I cannot do this while the interfaces are so broken...which brings me to #2...
      • Interfaces: Interaction design is one of hardest tasks around, and without substantial sums to do testing, releasing it and getting feedback is the only solution. Unfortunately, while the feedback on bugs and breaks seems to function, I don't see a whole lot about ease of use. GIMP (originally quite unbelievably bad) did eventually make a few small changes, and OO/Abi aren't bad now either, but far too much else has all the much-sought functionality buried levels deep in menus, and all the rarely-used stuff at the top. Worse, there is still very little consistency between apps, because freely contributing developers understandably want to push their own idea of what the interface should be like (for them) rather than following the prevailing guidelines and expected methods of working.

      I hardly use any proprietary or commercial software these days, largely because the FOSS offerings do almost everything I want -- at the cost of some effort and the occasional cuss. But I would hesitate to recommend it to the averagely naive user simply because it's not as self-evident as it ought to be. That's not to say the commercial stuff is much better, but they have the money to polish the turds -- we don't.

    5. Re:Stability by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Precisely.

      I've used all kinds of OSes over the years, including Commodore BASIC/DOS and GEOS and AmigaOS (1,2,3) and MacOS (6,7,8,9,and 10) and Windoze (3,4,95,98,XP,wista) and Linux Ubuntu. When I was young and had tons of time to spare, I enjoyed hacking into my Commodore or Amiga to see what I could make them do, but now that I'm middle-aged I don't have many years left. I want my OS to "just work" like my car just works, so I can use my remaining time for other fun projects.

      I gave Linux a fair shake, found it as frustrating as driving a Volkswagen Old Beetle that keeps breaking-down, and decided to go back to XP and MacOS. They cost money, but not that much, and that cost is offset by all the other free/libre programs like Firefox, Utorrent, Opera (not liberated but it is free), and so on.

      BTW:

      One other annoyance with Linux Ubuntu is when I switched my screen size to 640x480 to play some Atari and NES gaming. I found it impossible to switch it back to 1280x1024. Why? Because the dialogue box did not fit, and the "okay" button was off the screen! I ended-up stuck. That was pretty much the final straw that made me reach for my XP restore disc. What Linux needs is a user-friendliness consultant who is tasked to find all the problems that make the OS difficult for average people to navigate. Linux should be as easy to use as the Mac, or at least XP, and right now it's not even a quarter of the way there.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Stability by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Lots of users" does not equal "a large percentage".

      The number of people who use Windows but loath it could be twice the number of total number Linux users combined, and it would still be less than 5% of number of people who use Windows. There are not that many people who hate Windows, the vast majority of windows users love it, especially XP and even Vista now that they've got most of the bugs ironed out.

      There will never be an open source replacement for Windows, if anything replaces it it will be a closed-source OS like OSX, because programming the bits that make Windows easy to use and acceptable to a large user base are the very bits that nobody likes to write. They are, in fact, a pain in the ass to write and there is no real sense of accomplishment. That is why GUIs in Linux are horrible. Not just bad, but horrible. The rare GUI that is easy to use is a pleasant surprise.

      With Windows, as well as with most proprietary software, some schmuck got paid to make sure all the bits that nobody likes to program work the way they are supposed to, and what you get is a GUI that is so easy to use nobody even thinks about it. This is one thing that open source developement is terrible at. Not bad, but terrible, and it is an area closed-source developement excels at. Usually the poor schmuck doing the GUI work is an intern or new guy making his way up the ranks, being told what to do by the high-paid GUI designer. Neither of those two exist in an open source project. If they do, it's very rare.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    7. Re:Stability by White+Shade · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Man, where are my mod points when I need them.. your post is spot on. It reminds me of trying to find an open source replacement for Visio, so I could throw together some really simple circuit diagrams.

        I found a good half dozen programs that had the basic functionality I needed, except that they all sucked, really, really, really hard. A lot of them had amazing feature sets and could do some incredible stuff, but when it came to the basic nitty gritty of .. clicking on an object ... rotating it ... scaling it... moving it from here to there... they all failed *miserably*. Half of them didn't let you scale objects, half didn't let you rotate them at all, the others only did 90 degree increments, etc. The most basic, raw surface of the interface of all these programs were simply unusable.

      It doesn't matter if all the open-source apps were loaded to the brim with extremely powerful features, which indeed many of them were, if it's like pulling teeth to drop some objects on the screen and move them and point them where I want them to.

      I eventually found a circuit drawing program a friend of mine was writing for fun, that actually did what I wanted pretty much, but then I realized I could get Visio for free from school through the academic alliance, so I switched to that, and the joy of having a gigantic company's worth of resources to make sure every little tiny piece of the interface works great became apparent. (except autoconnect. that feature sucks.) It makes it so much easier to just Do Work, and not Work at doing work.

      --
      ìì!
    8. Re:Stability by flappinbooger · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've actually made a video in Cinellera once, and it isn't the crashing I remember. It's the fact that compared to a program like Sony Vegas, editing in Cinellera is like flossing with barbed wire. If you try hard enough you can get the job done, but it really hurts.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
  2. Support by garcia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The biggest reason is the fact that there weren't expensive support contracts available for purchase. Employee turnover always exists and generally only one or maybe two people knew how to operate any particular system in the places where I have worked. Expensive support contracts allowed for someone else to do deal w/the turnover problem and kept it out of the hands of the on-site departments.

    1. Re:Support by solanum · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is a reason that is always trotted out at times like this, but is it a myth? I've worked at a number of institutions and the place where I am currently at (note I don't work in IT), has over 6,000 employees and a very varied software set up for the various parts of the organisation. The only time, either here or at a previous job, I have ever heard of anyone receiving training in software use, or access to paid support from a vendor is when we recently went to SAP (funnily enough the training was useless).

      It may be that all the training/support is provided to the IT department so they can support us I guess, but generally they only provide support for installation and desktop use, so I doubt it.

      --
      Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
    2. Re:Support by quixote9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Same where I work. It's a college with about 6000 people, and an IT department that isn't merely useless. They make our jobs *more* difficult. They just recently talked the higher-ups into switching over to M$ server software (from Apache, etc, which was great) at a cost of hundreds of thousands per year to a cash-strapped district, because then they could outsource support. They talked the higher ups into going with proprietary course management software, more hundreds of thousands per year, again, because then somebody in Pennsylvania would be so-called "supporting" it.

      There are several people on campus who use Linux. None of us has ever considered switching back to either Windows or Macs. Sure, there's a learning curve. As someone who had to learn DOS in the Good Old Days, it's no worse than that. Easier actually, because these days there are forums. I can't remember when I heard a useful answer from tech support for a commercial product.

      The other massive advantage is software repositories. When something comes up and I need some new program to solve that problem, I google to find out what can do the job, download, install, and some five minutes to half hour later, I'm ready to go. No credit cards, no registration codes. When I have to use Windows to help out a colleague, I can never understand why anyone puts up with the inconvenience of it now that Linux has distros like Ubuntu.

      So, anyway, this is a longwinded way of saying that, yes, support is the big issue in getting people back to proprietary software. But that's not support as a non-IT person understands it. That's "support" in the sense that there's someone else to blame when things go wrong.

  3. Ease of Use by illumastorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For me it really wasn't about the lack of features. It was more on how easy it was to use as program. You have Feature X,Y, and Z on there, but if I have to navigate Menus A, B, C, and D to find that feature then I will not use that program.

  4. Difficulty In Using by smpoole7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... is my key principle. I'm capable of RTM'ing and Googling to find answers, but especially as I get older, I don't have the time I used to. Just yesterday, I was struggling with an Open Source mail server. Having to read separate (and usually incomplete) (not to mention incomprehensible at times) documentation on each component, THEN figure out how it all played together ... just to be honest, I briefly (briefly!) considered telling Corporate that we needed to just bite the bullet and go with an Exchange Server with full support. Fortunately, I got this one working (again), and it's holding for now. But my #1 complaint is the lack of clear, easy-to-follow documentation. I love F/OSS -- I run Suse at home, and I've fallen head-over-heels for VirtualBox -- but this is my biggest complaint. We have a lot of brilliant coders working in F/OSS. We need to attract some equally-brilliant technical writers to donate time to explain how the stuff works in the real world.

    --
    Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    1. Re:Difficulty In Using by Static+Sky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or at least we need those brilliant coders to take the ball that last 10 yards and not stop when the product hits the "functional" stage. Functional and usable are not the same thing.

    2. Re:Difficulty In Using by Teckla · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... is my key principle. I'm capable of RTM'ing and Googling to find answers, but especially as I get older, I don't have the time I used to.

      Amen to that.

      Not long ago, I was struggling getting vino/vnc to work under Ubuntu Linux (desktop edition). I spent hours Googling and trying to juggle conflicting and just plain wrong information. Eventually, I discovered the culprit was that IPv6 was enabled on Ubuntu by default.

      First, I was stunned Ubuntu would be misguided enough to enable IPv6 in their desktop distro by default, when less than 1% of ISPs support it, and most consumer networking equipment either doesn't support it or doesn't have it enabled by default.

      Second, I was stunned vino/vnc would fail to accept connections if IPv6 was enabled but my networking gear didn't support it. I literally could not VNC into my Ubuntu desktop machine unless I disabled IPv6 on the Ubuntu machine, even if all my IPv4 firewall and tunnel settings were correct.

      Third, I was stunned that the solution (which was remarkably hard to discover) was to hand edit some weird blacklist file so that I could blacklist IPv6. Nope, no GUI option to just frakking disable IPv6, at least not that I could find.

      After struggling with this for hours...finally getting it to work...and then enjoying the slow-as-molasses solution that VNC is, I started to think that paying $100 or $200 for Windows and just clicking a few checkboxes to enable Remote Desktop was looking pretty damn good. (And Remote Desktop performance is way better, too.)

      I'll continue to use Linux, of course, but FOSS in general has a long ways to go.

      Now I look forward to someone telling me what a complete dummy I am for having such difficulty setting up remote access on Linux.

    3. Re:Difficulty In Using by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a network application doesn't work .. the first thing I would do is to use tcpdump (or ethereal/wireshark) to see whether the packets arrive properly. If they do, 'lsof' or 'netstat' to check whether something listens on the port the packet is destined for.. and finally 'strace' to see if the receiving application actually receives anything.

      And there you go, the problem in a nutshell. Expecting end users to do stuff like this is bullshit.

  5. Really? by DewDude · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe I'm entirely different than most people. I used to use a bunch of propritary applications...Office, AIM, Yahoo, mIRC....I switched to the open-source alternatives and I never looked back. For me, it was being able to jump between Ubuntu and Windows while maintaining the same "feel" as the other apps. Market major upgrades are lame. How many times does someone make a major upgrade that's really just more annoying features....didn't AOL just "upgrade" ICQ to use the same rendering engine as AIM Triton...quite honestly, AIM Triton was enough to make me switch to Pidgin full time. Obviously the windows people will stick with the applications that they're used to.

  6. Why surprising? by GF678 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hard as it may be to imagine, 'free' is not always the primary selling point to open source software.

    Why is it hard to imagine? People will pay money for something if it saves them time, or is simply more pleasant to use. It's software after all - free isn't the best drawcard if the software is crap to begin with, and goodness-knows there's a ton of crap open source software out there.

  7. Several reasons ... by MacTO · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many of the reasons leveled at open source can also be leveled at commercial software. I've seen more than my fair share of commercial applications that lack features, have critical bugs, and are definitely hard to use. While some of these problems may be surmounted by purchasing additional software or employing the services of a consultant, that is rarely an option for non-revenue generating organizations (never mind most individual users).

    So why do people drop it? Lack of familiarity is one big reason. If you're a Linux user who does specialized stuff with your system, try figuring out how to do that stuff in Windows. Can't find it in the UI or configuration files? No problem. Just read the documentation. Wow. What language does Microsoft write their documentation in? While it may not be quite as bad as another language, the jargon of the Windows world is definitely different from the jargon of the Linux world. This adds time and frustration to the process of learning a new technology. So if you're familiar with Linux, you'll probably stick to Linux. If you're familiar with Windows, you'll probably stick to Windows. Feel free to substitute Linux with your favorite open source application and Windows with your favorite commercial application. By in large, this barrier will still exist.

    If that issues exists for technical people, imagine how hard it is for non-technical people to deal with similar problems. A function that is found in a different place or that works in a slightly different manner will cause a neophyte OpenOffice.org user to throw up their arms in frustration, call the product shit, and head directly back to Word. Many people are completely unwilling to adapt to change in a domain that does not interest them. (I've talked to some of these people, and intellectually they realize that OpenOffice.org is just different and that it would serve all of their needs. But emotionally they view it as a vastly inferior product.)

    Sometimes bundling is a reason for adopting commercial products. I'm not talking about the bundling of software that you see with commercial vendors (e.g. the various Adobe suites). Rather I'm talking about the resources that are bundled with that software. When you download the Gimp or Inkscape, you get just the Gimp or just Inkscape. When you buy something like the CorelDRAW Graphics Suite, you get fonts and clipart that you can use in your projects. When you buy the Microsoft Office Suite you get clipart and templates. Looking at my Linux setup, I have only one or two graphic fonts and no clipart to speak of. Even though I have the standard DTP and graphics software installed under it. Now I don't mind that. Actually I prefer it that way. Yet I can guarantee you that the run of the mill user will throw up their arms in frustration because they expect that stuff.

    And the list could go on.

  8. Mortgage on my house by TheMidget · · Score: 4, Interesting
    With a huge mortgage on my house, and the bank breathing down my neck, any influx of cash into my personal finances is welcome. And who'd really stayed true to his principles if offered $75000 to move my employer's mail system back from dovecot plus sendmail to Exchange. Yes, Micro$oft is really paying that much (as long as your company is big or well-known enough). I've heard Adobe offers similar deals (for moving from the Gimp to Photoshop). A couple of well-placed flash animations also pay, although far less.

    If you aren't getting the same kind of coin, you aren't negotiating hard enough. Hint: know the selling points of the open source alternatives, and (obviously) arrange for a private after hours meeting with the sales guy, but without your colleagues.

  9. Re:Security by LaughingCoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First, it was not a bug ... it was a design flaw that was spread throughout the whole source tree. The code was awful, beyond repair. If it were a simple bug I would have just fixed it.

    Second, you conveniently ignore the fact that I was hacked through this hole. So, that means the breach is known and actively being exploited.

    Sure, the new application I chose *may* have a security hole as well, but the one I dropped *did* have a hole (and a big one I might add). Which would you choose given that knowledge? No, my logic is completely sound. It is yours that is suspect, perhaps influenced by ideology.

    --
    The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
  10. Re:Lack of user-testing by dissy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, my complaint list:

    1. Lack of user-testing
    2. Incomplete, incomprehensible, multi-format documentation.
    3. Lack of quality control (eg. automated testing)
    4. Unannounced drop of support on certain projects.
    5. A plethora of linux distributions makes it difficult to choose.
    6. Too many configuration formats.
    7. The UNIX framework is not mature anymore and because of its design flaws, responds horribly to new demands.
    8. Too many different programming languages make it difficult for new talent to drop in or to integrate different approaches.
    9. KISS principle is broken too many times.
    10. Featuritis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep)

    Ironically (Other than #5 and #7 needing rewording) that is the exact list of complaints I have against most of the commercial software packages I have to work with!

    If you replace the word 'linux distro' with 'windows release' in #5, and replace 'unix' with the list of 20 frameworks used in windows for #7, then it is an exact match.

  11. My experience with Ubuntu by schnikies79 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I thought I would try Ubuntu (Intrepid Ibex), again, out on my Dell Inspiron 640m. I got everything installed but the wireless wasn't working, so I plugged it into the lan and did some googling. I had to edit several config files and use some ndiswrapper. For someone who doesn't code and doesn't work in IT, it was a pain but whatever. I got it working.

    A couple days later, Ubuntu tells me I have auto-updated to install, so I say okay. It hoses the wireless. I go through the same procedure again and get it working. A couple weeks later, the same thing.

    I've told this story before and got all kinds of apologist telling me various reasons why it happened. The fact is, I don't care what the reasons are. I went back to windows.

    --
    Gone!
  12. Users "Graduate" to Proprietary by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've lost count of the number of "casual" graphics designers to whom I have introduced to open source tools... they want to "do stuff," either within a web site or with their photos, but the name brand graphics tools are too expensive, so... they'll try anything, even something with a name as ridiculous and off-putting as "The Gimp." Then, once they become proficient, once they start to understand "layers" and "filters" and the like, they understand the required reading a bit better, and wonder what they are missing with the Adobe software. Well, they don't wonder, it's very clear: all the web and design magazines each month provide specialized step-by-step tutorials on how to do neat stuff with the popular tools, and never once mention open source beyond the "Annual Condescension" summary article about the "other" tools. These people take a stroll down the aisles at B&N and see tome after tome designed to help the Adobe user, and maybe -- in a particularly well-stocked store -- a copy of "Beginning GIMP, which just sounds icky. I've seen the same scenario play out with Audacity and Pro Tools: people learn how to edit with free Audacity, and then when they become savvy enough to realize what they are missing with the proprietary stuff -- either in the form of missing features or widespread community and commercial support -- they step up.

    The pro creative tools have great "wannabe" appeal: working with Adobe and Pro Tools, the amateur wannabe artists feel like they're "more connected" to that professional world to which they aspire. Using the free open source tools just underscores -- in their mind -- that they are second tier. This is not to say that the open source tools are second-rate technically, just that -- in the eyes of the latte-infused graphics and sound editor pretenders -- they may not be quite as "fashionable."

    1. Re:Users "Graduate" to Proprietary by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Informative

      "I've seen the same scenario play out with Audacity and Pro Tools: people learn how to edit with free Audacity, and then when they become savvy enough to realize what they are missing with the proprietary stuff -- either in the form of missing features or widespread community and commercial support -- they step up."

      ... to Ardour you mean ? Because Ardour is the "Pro Tools" FOSS equivalent. Obviously if you choose the wrong tool to compare to, the FOSS version will seem inadequate.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  13. There is one single very simple reason: by Hurricane78 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, every software is free to normal users!
    Either you download and crack it yourself, or you have a friend who does it for yo.
    That is the main point free software hasn't taken off, and everybody knows it.

    I mean, when instead of Gimp, you can get this: http://btjunkie.org/search?q=adobe%20master
    Then who cares about Gimp?
    And instead of OpenOffice, you get this: http://btjunkie.org/search?q=microsoft+office
    I mean, it's obvious.

    Oh, and under Linux, the culture is quite different.
    1. Because not everything runs fine under Wine.
    2. The abilities to combine Linux tools into scripts and a mesh, glued together with bash.
    Which I absolutely love. I could never go back. I'm officially spoiled. :)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  14. Documentation by cheebie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even though the documentation for proprietary software can be crap, it is usually light years ahead of what you get for most Freeware/Open Source/Hippieware/Whatever programs.

    I hate it when I install something and I get a window with three greyed out menus. Somehow I am supposed to magically know to go edit ~/.korgodi/pyconfig/menus/anabling.cfg to turn them on. And when I look for documentation about this or even a damn README, I get a link to a forum where everyone is too busy arguing the philosophy of tabs vs. spaces for indentation to tell me anything.

    I hate writing up the documentation as much as anyone, but your project is not ready to be released until you can give the user a document telling them how to use the stupid thing.

    I'll give you a real-time example. I am going to attempt to find the format for conditional execution in gmake. I don't do development on this machine normally, so some fumbling will be necessary.

    Step 1: 'man gmake':
    What do you mean there's no gmake? I installed the dev package.

    Step 2: search for where gmake is.
    Let's check synaptic to see where they put it. No gmake in there.
    Oh, they called it just plain 'make' in Ubuntu. Of course.

    Step 3: 'man make':
    Blah blah blah . . . purpose of make . . . startup options . . . damn there are a lot of them . . . THAT'S ALL?!!! . . . Wait, there was a SEE ALSO back there.

    See Also The Gnu Make Manual. Oh, of course, I have one of those with me at all times. WHERE IS IT!

    Step 4: Google
    Type in 'The Gnu Make Manual'. There it is. Ah yes, a webpage with a format circa 1994. ^F conditional . . . See Conditionals. At least it's a link. Reading . . . I had wondered what the definition of the word 'conditional' was. Show me the stupid syntax.

    Blah blah blah, examples that no one will ever use . . . oh wait, for once the examples are relatively useful. Okay, that should get me started.

    So, that wasn't too bad as was as documentation searches go. But I still had to resort to Google. WRITE THE DAMN MANUAL AND INCLUDE IT. If I type 'progname -h' give me something useful. Put something in the Help menu. No, I don't care what programs you compiled it with.

  15. Continuity: the package manager trap by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with open source is the dependency chain becomes brutal. So you turn to a package manager like Yum or Fink to handle all the self consistency and installs, not to mention the updates.

    Then sometime later you want to update python from 2.4 to 2.5. you do the update and it updates all these dependencies as well. And suddenly you find that Gimp or gnuplot or something else you need is busted because say they all depend on some Latex for symbolic fonts and there's an incompatibility.

    These package manager while saving you a lot of time on the initial install also couple all your apps together in unneccessary ways, so that updating one can break another. Or worse maybe it won't let you update at all.

    One would prefer in many cases decoupling of applications or even standalone applications. When you update an app the worst that happens then is that just that app breaks. Plus it's trivial to roll back to the old self contained app.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  16. UI polish, documentations by klubar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For many FOSS applications the UI isn't nearly as polished as the commercial alternatives. This might be partially because UI designers want to get paid for the work (perhaps not a dedicated to the free community as sofware developers). The commercial alernatives invest in easy-to-use (watered down) configuration utilities that make it easy to set up. Contrast apache (perhaps the best of the FOSS) with IIS. Apache is in many ways a much better program, but the configuration is via a really obscure configuration file--and if you do something wrong you've broken it. ISS has a slick UI with nice dropdowns and checkboxes. MS spent as much effort on the UI as they did on the actual product. This is very different than FOSS.

    Secondly, the documentation is typically better on commercial software than FOSS (there are some expections, mostly badly documented commercial software rather than well documented FOSS). Again, writers, proofreaders and editors want to get paid for their work.

    I the long run there are probably only a score or so of free software applilications that are substainable. With the exception of these star applications (apache, linux, etc.) the real reason for using FOSS is that it's free. For example, if both MS Office and OO were both free, which would people choose? If they were both $99 (the home/student price of Office) which would they choose. Mostly free software is exploiting programs to give their work away for free--designers, editors and proofreaders don't fall for it.

    1. Re:UI polish, documentations by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      MS spent as much effort on the UI as they did on the actual product. This is very different than FOSS.

      I can't think of anything more revealing - and more damning - than this.

      The UI is essential part of your product - to treat it as an afterthought defines you as an amateur.

    2. Re:UI polish, documentations by gilgongo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For many FOSS applications the UI isn't nearly as polished as the commercial alternatives. This might be partially because UI designers want to get paid for the work (perhaps not a dedicated to the free community as sofware developers).

      I am a UI designer, and the couple of occasions when I've tried to offer UI design improvements for FOSS projects have been pretty depressing. Both times I tried, it seemed that one of the coders on the project doubled as a UI designer and resented anyone who would challenge their ideas. Their contribution of code to the project meant that others then close ranks around them, so that any real discussion of UI improvements is killed off and anyone not a coder was frozen out. You could see why Alan Cooper wrote The Lunatics.

      Other projects may of course be different. This was just my somewhat bitter experience with two fairly well known web apps.

      Mostly free software is exploiting programs to give their work away for free--designers, editors and proofreaders don't fall for it.

      I strongly disagree with that. If I could point to a FOSS application and say "I did the UI for that", I would probably double the amount of commercial work I could get (assuming my work was any good!). I would also think that being the only UI designer on a FOSS project would be wonderful - think of the freedom!

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    3. Re:UI polish, documentations by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You really only start caring about the UI when you code for others.

      That is the KEY difference between FOSS and proprietary software, and it explains all the issues people have with FOSS right there. FOSS programmers are usually writing the program for themselves, and don't think about what other people might want or need with their program. Proprietary software programmers are -always- thinking about what other people might want or need, because they are NOT coding it for themselves. Half the time they could care less and wouldn't use the product they are writing anyway, but they end up making the better programs.

      FOSS is great for developing the underlying technologies behind programs, but when it comes to actually putting something out there for the masses to use, they suck. A proprietary UI with a FOSS core can do extremely well, just look at OSX.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  17. Re:Spot On! by Joebert · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mod parent down as offtopic, and then mod this up as funny, so that people with re-parented replies see it attached to something completely unrelated and have their heads explode trying to figure out why on earth they should mod down a perfectly good post !

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  18. Re:Expectations by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do people think that Linux is magically going to do things that they would never expect Windows or Mac OS to do?

    Why is expecting your wireless nic to work "magic"? Why is not expecting an update for Windows or OS X to break a functioning nic "magic"?

    That's all he was expecting - that it works. For him it "just work" on Windows. With Ubuntu he had to do a little bit of work, which he was okay with. Then it broke because of an update. So he fixed it again - he was okay with that. Then it broke because of another update.

    Why is that him expecting "magic" from the OS? What kind of odd world do you live in, where you expect to get your socks ruined just because you change the laces in your shoes?