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Sam Ramji, Microsoft's Open Source Guru, Is Moving On

barking_at_airplanes writes "Some called him crazy a few years ago when he joined Microsoft to run the Open Source Software Lab, but Sam Ramji endured and made real differences to how Microsoft treats open source and how open source people view Microsoft. Ramji is now heading back to Silicon Valley to join a cloud computing startup. Sam comments in his announcement: '46 months later, I am amazed at the changes that have occurred for the company, for the team I belonged to, and the sentiments of the industry.' It's a statement which, 46 months ago, few Slashdotters would have thought could come true! With Sam leaving, can Microsoft's positive momentum into open source continue successfully? Bill Hilf says they're 'actively seeking someone to fill Sam's shoes.'"

45 of 155 comments (clear)

  1. I know! by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hire Stallman!

    1. Re:I know! by NoYob · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I just had this image of Stallman and Ballmer in a room together.

      Then, I had this thought of them becoming the best of buds and ruling the World.

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    2. Re:I know! by FunPika · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even scarier would be Stallman, Ballmer, Gates, Jobs, and Torvalds all together in the same room planning to take over the world...

      We would all be screwed.

      --
      After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
    3. Re:I know! by Errtu76 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Better yet, have Microsoft 'ask Slashdot'. I'm sure there'll be lots of people with ideas on how to continue/improve things.

    4. Re:I know! by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Funny

      Stallman: We must only use free-software, by my definition
      Ballmer/Gates: We must use only Microsoft products
      Jobs: I don't care what we use but it has to look cool and have shiny logos on it
      Torvalds: I don't care as long as it does one thing and does it well.

      Yeah ... I wouldn't be too worried.

    5. Re:I know! by Timosch · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just had this image of Stallman and Ballmer in a room together.

      Uhm, the chairs would propably get caught in Stallman's beard.

    6. Re:I know! by aetherworld · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wait... so we would get free Microsoft products that look cool and only do one thing, but they do it well? Can we please lock those guys up in a room already until they come up with that idea?

    7. Re:I know! by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Funny

      If getting a job offer from Microsoft didn't kill him, I'm not sure what would. Ninjas?

      No, wait, that's been tried. (http://www.yale.edu/ypu/blog.html)

    8. Re:I know! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bull, meet china shop!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    9. Re:I know! by i.of.the.storm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can you really attribute the Unix philosophy to Torvalds? I mean, the fact that Linux started as a Unix clone kind of goes against attributing that to Linus.

      --
      All your base are belong to Wii.
    10. Re:I know! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wait... so we would get free Microsoft products that look cool and only do one thing, but they do it well? Can we please lock those guys up in a room already until they come up with that idea?

      They have already written FDISK decades ago...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:I know! by erebus24 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I smell a sitcom!

    12. Re:I know! by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 2, Funny

      Even scarier would be Stallman, Ballmer, Gates, Jobs, and Torvalds all together in the same room planning to take over the world...

      I'd rather see them in a room playing D&D. That would be interesting.

    13. Re:I know! by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bullshit.

      Best Regards,
          Larry E.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:I know! by jonadab · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't want to put Jobs and Stallman in a room together, trust me. Gates and Stallman would probably just give eachother the cold shoulder (what would they have to say to one another, after all?), but Jobs would probably do something to get Stallman riled. Could get messy.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    15. Re:I know! by D4C5CE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just had this image of Stallman and Ballmer in a room together.

      1. ???
      2. ???
      3. Profit!!!

      You mean as in:

      1. RMS leaves for Google
      2. Chairs get airborne
      3. Gravity takes its toll
      4. Profit for the furniture store?
  2. Really? by kubrick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sam Ramji... made real differences to how Microsoft treats open source and how open source people view Microsoft.

    [Citation needed]

    --
    deus does not exist but if he does
    1. Re:Really? by minsk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe it.

      A few years ago, Microsoft was ignoring Free Software and Open Source. Now Microsoft has moved onto misleading branding, false marketing, patent threats, and courting developers with what traditionally turned out to be empty promises.

      So, the same way they treat other competition.

    2. Re:Really? by wampus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry if I don't trust your source. It's always been a little slanted...

    3. Re:Really? by someone1234 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Single patent system, so they could effectively fight Open Source (which is not centered in a single country)
      http://politics.slashdot.org/story/09/09/02/2036227/Microsoft-Pushes-For-Single-Global-Patent-System?from=rss

      Failed attempt to sell out a small portions of less useful patents to patent trolls
      (this was most likely a tentative attempt and the next one will have a bigger impact)
      http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/08/213217/Microsoft-Letting-Patents-Move-To-Linux-Firms?from=rss

      Suing TomTom because it is using the FAT filesystem
      http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

      'Releasing GPL drivers' after found violating GPL
      http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/23/1327205

      'training' BestBuy employees with false facts
      http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/09/05/195219/Microsoft-Attacks-Linux-With-Retail-Training-Talking-Points

      I hope you are satisfied by the citations.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    4. Re:Really? by fyrewulff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Granted, the first one isn't a true open source project in that they don't accept patches from the community

      There's nothing about open source that says that the original maintainers have to accept patches from outside the initial group.

      --
      "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
    5. Re:Really? by Skim123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Granted, the first one isn't a true open source project in that they don't accept patches from the community

      There's nothing about open source that says that the original maintainers have to accept patches from outside the initial group.

      True. Although I prefer Jeff Atwood's definition of open source:

      • The project must use an OSI approved license
      • The project must use a commonly available method of public source control
      • The project must provide public evidence that it accepts and encourages code contributions from the outside world.
      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    6. Re:Really? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They are on Wikipedia, since most of the editiots don't know the difference between common knowledge and original research.

      For example see this concerning colour contrast on roadsigns. The last sentence is clearly true to anyone who holds a driving license or has even walked down a street, yet some 'dromer has tagged it [citation needed]

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  3. What are you smoking? by Grokmoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article claims Ramji has improved relations between Microsoft and open source people? Since when have relations between Microsoft and open source been anything but negative? We read stories on here almost every day about some new point of conflict.

    1. Re:What are you smoking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The article claims Ramji has improved relations between Microsoft and open source people? Since when have relations between Microsoft and open source been anything but negative? We read stories on here almost every day about some new point of conflict.

      Hang around Groklaw much?

      "OMG! Microsoft is teh EVIL! Did you see Psystar is suing Apple! They're REALLY trying to destroy the GPL! Somebody (hint... hint...) really wants to destroy the GPL!!!!"

      Think I'm kidding? Yeah, I know the Groklaw legions will mod this down. But seriously, read Groklaw with the same skepticism PJ aims at, say, SCO, and you'll see what I mean. For someone who basis her entire site on respect for due process, she sure doesn't need due process or even any evidence to put on the tin foil hat and start seeing Microsoft goblins behind every tree and rock.

    2. Re:What are you smoking? by rattaroaz · · Score: 2, Informative

      The article claims Ramji has improved relations between Microsoft and open source people? Since when have relations between Microsoft and open source been anything but negative? We read stories on here almost every day about some new point of conflict.

      In all fairness, Microsoft has been spreading misinformation the whole time Sam Ramji has been working there. Why would they stop now that he's leaving?

    3. Re:What are you smoking? by Locutus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      that Microsoft Linux Lab is just a training facility for Microsoft upper management so they can be exposed to what open source is and so they can then be moved into other positions within Microsoft and use what was learned to advance Microsoft Windows or at the very least, protect its position. It's not about making money of open source, it's about understanding it and the people behind it. They go to open source conventions, not to sell Microsoft open source products but to see what others are doing and talk to them to learn their strengths and their weaknesses. They join open standards bodies not to move open standards forward but to move them in directions which leave holes open for Microsoft to leverage and to slow down or distract the committees while Microsoft embeds similar technologies into Windows or their other desktop or server apps.

      Do pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. Microsoft's Linux Lab is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. And then some. IMO

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  4. Microsoft's Open Source Strategy by sk999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here is how Bill Hilf explains Microsoft's Open Source Strategy:

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=203100965&pgno=3
    ".. our PREFERRED plan is to LICENSE ... versus LITIGATE."

    Gee, where have we heard that before? Oh yes. Darl McBride, CEO of The SCO Group:
    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2003/07/59701

    "We would PREFER LICENSING to LITIGATION,"

    Such a nice bunch of guys.

    1. Re:Microsoft's Open Source Strategy by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In all fairness, Bill Gates used to brag how Microsoft never sued anyone (before the TomTom fiasco). They use FUD, but they didn't follow through on threats. I'm curious if the TomTom suit was an isolated incident, or the future direction of Microsoft.

      One of the major failings of the United States is that money can trump justice in civil suits. Simply bankrupting another company in a lawsuit can guarantee you victory, which is why TomTom rolled over, rather than fight a battle they likely could have won in court.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  5. Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by David+Gerard · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft has announced Microsoft CodePlex, its new Open Source foundation.

    "We want to be more responsive to your needs," said Sam Ramji of Microsoft during a Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit panel this week as he wiped rotten tomatoes off his suit.

    "We want all open source innovation to happen on Windows. In practice, Windows is too slow, and just putting Linux underneath the same software stack triples performance. So we're running the Windows versions of the software on Linux using Wine. We'll also be funding the Wine on Windows initiative."

    The new Microsoft Amazingly Open And Genuine Public License allows you complete freedom to use, modify and redistribute the software provided that every copy comes with a DVD of Windows Vista Ultimate, you acknowledge that Microsoft's FAT patent protects a remarkable and valuable innovation in computer science and all accompanying documentation is in OOXML. Also, all your data belongs to Microsoft.

    The overwhelming dominance of Microsoft was assured, he said, pointing to their success in paying netbook manufacturers to use Windows XP and paying US retailers not to stock the Linux versions of the computers. "We're also enforcing our patent on right-clicking. And on the number seven." Ramji reassured journalists of his absolute faith in the power of Microsoft's vision, just before quitting to work somewhere -- anywhere -- else.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
    1. Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by minsk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't knock it... someone porting Wine to Windows might just be the only way to get old applications to work properly :)

    2. Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    3. Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft actually said after Vista's release that emulation/virtualization was likely the future for Windows, as they planned to seriously break APIs moving forward. They said instead of a full virtual-PC, they'd be able to do low-level emulation or virtualization per application. Since 7 was so rushed, we didn't get to see this fully realized. Instead 7 ships with Virtual PC. But I think something like Wine on Windows to intercept old Windows API calls will literally be a part of the next (post-7) OS from Microsoft.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    4. Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      But I think something like Wine on Windows to intercept old Windows API calls will literally be a part of the next (post-7) OS from Microsoft.

      So... we wait another 6 months or so? /duck

    5. Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time by cenc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MS "embracing" open source I believe is the ultimate nuclear option for MS to take open source apart from the inside out. Watch them put on the sheep's clothing, and then try and run it in to the ground.

  6. This is the first I've heard of him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is the first I've heard of him. If I had heard of him before now, I sure as hell didn't remember him.

    "Success", "open source" and "Microsoft" can only come together in one way: the release of ALL of Microsoft's source code under the BSD or MIT licenses. We're talking .NET, Windows, Internet Explorer, Office, SQL Server, and all of their lesser-known business software.

    That clearly hasn't happened, so there hasn't been any success here.

  7. !change by should_be_linear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they still do all these "little things" like screwing Grub after Windows installation, something they can fix in one person/day. Not to mention "big" things, like document formats etc. I don't know what this guy is really talking about...

    --
    839*929
  8. Not ever Microsoft employee is evil by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The overall direction of the company is evil. They have done plenty of evil things. Balmer is still a patent troll. But Microsoft is a giant company win tons of divisions. And many of their employees are real, decent human beings. Not all Microsoft divisions agree with patent trolling, FUD, extinguishing open standards, etc. In fact I talked to a Microsoft employee who once said you have to realize this is a company that doesn't have the management or foresight to have the Exchange team directly tied to the Outlook team, because Exchange is a separate server product, where as Outlook is merely part of the Office team.

    I think a lot of people fail to notice that Microsoft is LESS EVIL than they were before. No doubt, guys like Sam Ramji played a part in that. For that, I am grateful.

    Kudos to you, sir.

    That being said, does his non-compete kick into effect since Ray Ozzie said Microsoft's future 100% lies with cloud computing, and Ramji is going to a competing cloud computing company? And do you want to run a start-up trying to compete with a multi-billion dollar behemoth that likes to crush competition?

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    1. Re:Not ever Microsoft employee is evil by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think a lot of people fail to notice that Microsoft is LESS EVIL than they were before. No doubt, guys like Sam Ramji played a part in that. For that, I am grateful.

      How are they less evil? All they have done is simply went from ignoring OSS to attempting to embrace and extend it. All they have done is realize that OSS is in actual competition to their software and if they don't at least make improvements to their software, people will chose OSS over MS software.

      And do you want to run a start-up trying to compete with a multi-billion dollar behemoth that likes to crush competition?

      One way MS likes to crush competition is by buying them. When you get millions for your company for doing very little, I'd say its a success. Yeah, if your an employee things might not be as good, but if you are owning the company? Its a great thing and you get a pretty early retirement if you so choose.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Not ever Microsoft employee is evil by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Funny

      How are they less evil? All they have done is simply went from ignoring OSS to attempting to embrace and extend it.

      They've made patent pledges not to sue, allowing others to use their patented technologies for free. Old Microsoft would never have done that.

      The IE team has worked to better respect web standards. The IE team even sends open encouragement to Firefox, saying they welcome innovation and competition. I read an interview with an IE developer who said his daughter accused him of breaking the internet. Since IE 6, the IE devs have made several positive strides for far more compliant rendering.

      Microsoft is assisting the Mono developers, but again Mono owns all copyright on all the code, and the code is GPL. Microsoft is also assisting the same developers with Moonlight.

      When you load IE, it prompts you to choose a search engine. Firefox and other browsers simply give you a default with no choice.

      Microsoft has released a boat-load of technical documentation, enabling the Samba devs to reach 100% feature parity for better interoperability.

      Microsoft just released GPL code directly for the first time. It was Hyper-V drivers for Linux, which is self-serving, but it does benefit interoperability. It is possible in joint ventures like these to have a win-win. I'm fine with that.

      There are plenty of examples like this. It is entirely possible that Microsoft is only playing nice because the EU is demanding it. Or it could be that they honestly want to start playing nice. Either way, the result is that Microsoft is less evil than before.

      Is Ballmer still a patent troll? Yes. Is Microsoft brainwashing Best Buy employees with FUD? Yes. Was the OOXML fiasco illegal? Yes. (It is against US federal laws to bribe foreign officials). Was it illegal when Microsoft used bribes to block foreign Mandriva deals? Yes.

      But Microsoft is more open than they were before. They used to be 99% evil, and now they're more like 90% evil.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    3. Re:Not ever Microsoft employee is evil by steelfood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft management, starting with Bill Gates, has always been evil. Gates is an evil genius, if there ever was one. And part of his genius is looking good to the public eye despite all the crap he's pulled.

      Sure, he's done a lot of good things, like consolidate the IBM PC industry into one platform, resulting in the rise of the computing age. And he's not nearly as evil as Jobs. But that's like saying, without WWII, the American industrial complex would've never developed, and Stalin is worse than Hitler (yes, I know I just Godwinned the thread), but that doesn't invalidate the fact that he's one evil bastard.

      Ballmer is more of an oaf. He's Bill Gates' lackey, and not much more. He's competent, but hardly the genius that Gates was. Microsoft's current situation reflects this, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, there's really little need for them to pull their old stunts, now that they're the 800lb gorilla in the IBM PC market. Remember that the last time Gates tried to play hardball, they got hit with an antitrust lawsuit. So it's probably a good thing for them.

      But don't think that anything's actually changed. Management is still management. Employees may be human, but the officers and upper management are nothing short of sociopaths. And if they are threatened, they'll bust out their old play book and go right back to their old tactics, especially if they know they can get away with it.

      Some companies are inherently good. Their founding principle is to primarily benefit society, while making a whole lot of money along the way. These companies do a lot of good things for society, improving it, forming a bond of trust between them and the people who use their products. Google is trying to be this kind of company, and I'd say they're pretty successful. Microsoft is not one of them. At best, they're dormant right now.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  9. Might I suggest by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In recognition for his outstanding achievements in bridging the gap between FOSS and Microsoft, let me suggest Miguel de Icaza. I doubt there's another human who's done more to embrace Microsoft patented technologies and extend them into popular Linux distributions. With his advocacy on OOXML, his dedicated efforts on Mono and Moonlight he's proven himself a capable mimic who can transform Free and Open Source Software from the type of innovative cauldron that gave us our current rich selection into a uniform platform that consistently replicates Microsoft, only perpetually two years behind.

    They should get him - if only they have what it takes to lure him away from Novell.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Might I suggest by Blice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Head of Gnome, right? Lead developer in bringing Microsoft .NET to Gnome, worked in Novell as vice president of development (which is partnered by Microsoft) and now is a director for Codeplex, Microsoft's new opensource foundation.

      If that isn't unsettling enough, he's a /b/tard. Look at this post from his twitter:

      "That last picture from @abock is photoshopped. I can tell because of the pixels and having seen a lot of shops' myself."

      holy shit

      I just think this guy is a massive troll. I can just picture him doing all this Microsoft shit with a troll face.

      The entire development cycle of Gnome suddenly makes sense to me now.

      Gnome developers: Look at all this cool stuff we can do for Gnome!!! We'll be way more awesome than Microsoft now with this stuff!
      Miguel de Icaza: No. I want to keep Gnome stable and unimproving. *trollface*
      Miguel de Icaza: But lets go ahead and bring .NET to Gnome. *trollface*

      Another gem:
      http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Sep-10.html

      "I hope that I can last more on this foundation than I lasted at the FSF, where I was removed by RMS after refusing to be an active part of the campaign to rename Linux as GNU/Linux."

  10. You forgot one... by ichbineinneuben · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You forgot to add corrupting an international standards body...

  11. Reality show... by marciot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But you have to admit, it would make for an awesome reality show.