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Japan's Cell Phones May Get DRM, At Music Industry Behest

An anonymous reader writes "The Japanese Music Industry is currently in talks with Japanese cell phone providers to introduce a new anti-piracy system in all cell phones in Japan. This new system would make DRM software mandatory in all cell phones; this would connect to a DRM server on the Internet whenever the cell phone user would try to play a song. The song would only play if the response of the server would be positive. Otherwise no song would be played. The system raises several questions and concerns that the Financial Times article did not address. These include ripped legally bought music and music that has been released under a CC license or similar. Who would pay for the costs of the DRM checks, and what would happen if no connection could be established?"

47 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. user would pay for all costs by postmortem · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you think that some global company would rather "decrease their profits and shareholder value"?

    1. Re:user would pay for all costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      didn't get to read the article because it requires a fucking registration and I'm unwilling to register just to read this tripe, but how would a system like this even work? If I load a ripped mp3 file onto the phone (or a free song or even an original song I just recorded), it will not have a hash or checksum that matches anything in their database. are they just going to check the name of the file to see if it matches a song I have purchased from them? isn't that ridiculously anticompetitive because it would force me to buy all of my songs from this one vendor that keeps records of what songs I am allowed to play? besides that, wouldn't it be easy to bypass? or maybe it will just refuse to play any unrecognized media file. wtf? what a USELESS, IDIOTIC system that will end up costing its users even more for a reduction in functionality.

    2. Re:user would pay for all costs by Cheesetrap · · Score: 2, Interesting

      didn't get to read the article because it requires a fucking registration and I'm unwilling to register just to read this tripe

      PrefBar allows you to change your user-agent, you may be able to use it to impersonate a GoogleBot (they seem to be indexed by google so it's worth a shot). I can't test it just now as I have 58 tabs open and some of them have large flash videos loaded, but this may be just the thing to facilitate your tripe-viewing in future. :)

    3. Re:user would pay for all costs by Jared555 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now if you want to make a billion dollars, invent a bluetooth-activated dildo that fires up on every incoming call. It will certainly contribute to shorter calls so you can get the next one.

      Ironically I am pretty sure this was on the screen savers/attack of the show (it was right around when they switched shows) at one point.... Pretty sure it detected the RF from the cell phone though.

    4. Re:user would pay for all costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use user-agent-switcher, never heard of prefbar, anyway your crack (well not yours, its pretty well known) worked flawlessly. it isnt even necessary to hide cookies. a simple Googlebot 2.1 worked for me.

  2. Yet Another Sky Is Falling by mr_stinky_britches · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Defective by design, as usual. I'm sure firmware hacks/mods will be created if this were to be implemented on a wide scale. No worries, really.

    --
    Censorship is obscene. Patriotism is bigotry. Faith is a vice. Slashdot 2.0 sucks.
    1. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, not really, most people don't want to deal with hacking their phone... but then again most people with music on thier phone in Japan bought it over-the-air anyway, since the interface to the computer isn't usually all that convenient and most people don't have computers.

      On the other hand, and people with computers and/or a lot of music probably already have iPods (or similar), so they won't much care.

      As far as passing costs onto consumers, sure, they can raise the prices, but demand will fall, meaning it will cost the phone companies.. which gives them an incentive to resist it.

    2. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by Odinlake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My Worry isn't that, but rather that laws and regulations are so hopelessly naive and outdated that industry can even consider these DRM stupidities.

    3. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by Cheesetrap · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At first I thought, "No, wait, maybe he's talking about computer ownership in Japan..." but I see that's not statistically different from US/Aus either:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users (there's no direct computer ownership listing)

      On a side note, there are certainly several countries where many people who have access to computers and the net don't have their OWN computers; making use of large 'net cafe' industries instead - Brazil, Portugal and the Phillipines, for instance. This would play havoc with the idea of restricting the syncing of ONE device to only ONE computer, and requiring a device to be wiped if it syncs with another comp, a la Apple.

    4. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by GauteL · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live in Portugal and never heard of a "large "net cafe" industry around here. Most people access net from home, school or the office.

      He's probably thinking as a tourist. All tourist places tend to have plenty of net cafes. Not to cater for locals, but to cater for the tourists.

      When I last visited a tourist trap in Portugal, there was plenty of net cafes there, but they are probably very rare outside the tourist areas.

    5. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I went to three Internet cafes in China. In all three cases, I was the only foreigner in there. Where I am now, the Internet cafes are full of non-tourists. I'm not sure if they are residents or just on long-term visas, but they aren't people visiting for a week or two and leaving. Those people now seem to carry their own computers with them and look for hotels with Internet. The people on tourist trips of a week either care enough to take their computer with them, or don't care enough to check email for the week. It's the people that only had desktops or left stuff behind or are shipping it or came from a place with Internet cafes for primary use that they go to the Internet cafes here.

    6. Re:Yet Another Sky Is Falling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, for most of the 1990s/early 2000s, personal computers took a distant second to mobile phones/PDAs in Japan for personal internet access. The degree of dominance changed while I was living there, but as late as 2007, most people people were still using their mobiles/cells for SMS/text messaging, email, and searching for information. It was just a very different set of expectations about what form data needed to be in to move to/from individuals.

      Most net cafes in Japan evolved from "manga-kissa": cafes where people could get a drink and read magazines in a semi-secluded booth for a bit. Rather than a single room with 15-40 PCs wedged into it, net cafes in larger cities in Japan have evolved into places where a person can rent a little bit of privacy with added amenities. It's not uncommon for people to pay JPY1500 for a package that allows them to stay from 11PM to 6AM in a cubicle with access to magazines, comics, PS2/3 games, DVDs, a net-connected PC, reclining office chair, and access to a shower. But for a lot of people the net access is far less important than the chance to sit down in a little bit of privacy, and maybe get cleaned up before they go back to the outside world.

      Aaaaaanyway, the point is that different people have different expectations of how tech and data should be presented, interacted with and controlled.

  3. Good Lord! by chef_raekwon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the skillz market for hacking phones just went up again. when will these music industries/RIAJ/RIAA/etc ever learn from Amazon/Ebay/etc? Its all about customer experience. This may be the same reason why top100 music generally licks balls.
    my 2 cents.

    --
    We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
    1. Re:Good Lord! by tpgp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the skillz market for hacking phones just went up again. when will these music industries/RIAJ/RIAA/etc ever learn from Amazon/Ebay/etc? Its all about customer experience. This may be the same reason why top100 music generally licks balls.

      Ebay and Customer service in the same paragraph? Incorrect..

      Ebay and generally licks balls in the same paragraph? Correct.

      --
      My pics.
    2. Re:Good Lord! by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

      When a comment on slashdot contains the words top100 licks balls and gets a 5 - insightful rating, you know that the RIAA painted itself into a corner that may never dry off again.

    3. Re:Good Lord! by roguetrick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That or Slashdot articles are an echo chamber of similarly minded individuals and people read, comment, and moderate articles that inflame them.

      --
      -The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
  4. The blowback from this wouldn't be good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the DRM system checks all songs against a server, regardless of origin, people will just end up using previous generation phones, or paying for a third party for a custom flash ROM to bypass this.

    If the DRM system only checks flagged songs, I'm sure another black market will pop up allowing songs to be downloaded from somewhere, likely offshore.

    Either way, Japan's analog of the RIAA loses long term for gains made in the short term. One can watch the lessons of DRM in the US, from the SDMI specs to FairPlay, to Apple just chucking DRM altogether to see what potholes are in store.

  5. No effect whatsoever by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There isn't likely going to be any fallout whatsoever from this. The technology will go into place, be pretty much invisible, and provide enough benefits for legitimate users that no one will cry except for people who aren't connected in any way to Japan.

    This is the way technology works. It gets implemented invisibly and no one ever knows they lost any sort of freedoms. In fact, they gain all sorts of benefits like better quality samples and higher bandwidth to support the increased usage.

    In the U.S., it's pretty much the other way around. You can load up your phone with all sorts of pirated music and software, but the tradeoff is that the carriers don't give a damn about bandwidth or quality of service since they didn't plan on the increased traffic in the first place.

    Do you take the red pill and live in a gilded cage, or do you take the blue pill and live a free life in squalor?

    1. Re:No effect whatsoever by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The technology will go into place, be pretty much invisible, and provide enough benefits for legitimate users that no one will cry except for people who aren't connected in any way to Japan.

      In what way will this provide _ANY_ benefit to legitimate users? They can already play their music, so they will see no benefit from having to 'phone home' to verify that they can, and will see significant risks of being incorrectly refused the right to play music they've been given or paid for.

      Users can only suffer from this nonsense, because they can only be denied the right to do what they've been doing up until now.

    2. Re:No effect whatsoever by ragethehotey · · Score: 3, Funny

      In what way will this provide _ANY_ benefit to legitimate users?

      More music sellers will be willing to provide music through such a system, making the available amount of music larger as a whole. (Kinda like how the vast majority of legitimate paying mobile application developers have flocked to the iphone, where the largest successful DRM implementation is)

      I'm not saying I at all agree with this plan, i'm simply answering your question.

    3. Re:No effect whatsoever by socceroos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullcrap. Your premise is all up the creek. Telecom companies are not going to upgrade their infrastructure just because the music industry wants DRM everywhere. This has never happened in the past and it will not happen in the future. You're basically saying that the only reason that Telecoms are going to upgrade their networks is because they have deliberately increased the traffic themselves, not because of demand?!?!?

      If this technology is getting implemented invisibly then why did it make front page news on slashdot?? Phail. Not even Echelon has been implemented invisibly.

      Are you really telling us that because some people download pirated material we are not going to get any service upgrades? If not then why do you equate having phones without DRM with a free life in squalor?

      Lastly, why on earth do you think that this isn't going to cause problems? DRM has caused major disruptions everywhere else it has been implemented. Do you think the Japs have the miracle fix for DRM that the rest of the world has been missing?

  6. No connection? by fucket · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What if you're on the subway and you want to play a song? You know, like 75% of all people do everyday on their way to and from work.

    1. Re:No connection? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would use my Rockbox'ed Sansa. If a user of this kind of phone wants to allow the corporations to control him like that, then that's his problem. Frankly, I don't want to hear anyone complain about it. There are always options. If you play by their rules, then you can't complain.

      I make it a point to only deal with non-DRM music, and I pay for everything that I use. No one can take that from me. I have nothing to fear, unless open and hackable devices become illegal and the ones I now own all die... but if it comes to that extreme, I'll learn to build my own.

      This is a ridiculous situation, but the best way to fight the rules of the game is simply not to play. As a private person, you often don't have any other choice. The government is a bitch of the corporations.

      But they can't stop the individuals... yet.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    2. Re:No connection? by coalrestall · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Phones are supposed to work in the subways but most of the time they don't. It seems to be limited to certain lines.

    3. Re:No connection? by KamuZ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not true. In the subway you lose the signal between stations.

    4. Re:No connection? by chetbox · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What if you're on a plane? There's no coverage there and it's one of the places I'm most likely to want to listen to my music.

    5. Re:No connection? by dintech · · Score: 4, Funny

      Forget about no coverage, usually snakes are more of problem.

    6. Re:No connection? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Given that there are incredibly strong cultural taboos in Japan against using a mobile phone on public transport (you should see the stares people get when they try), I would be very surprised if the networks had bothered investing in infrastructure underground.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:No connection? by mcsqueak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given that there are incredibly strong cultural taboos in Japan against using a mobile phone on public transport

      Indeed, I was just in Tokyo and the surrounding cities for 8 days and I saw all of *two* people actually talking on cellphones while on the Metro or JR. Everyone had iPods or some sort of other music player crammed into their ears, and spent the whole train ride texting, it seemed.

      I really think when you have something like 12 million people jammed into a city, following the rules does a fair bit of good in ensuring that everyone gets along fine.

  7. Will all audio be screened? by raju1kabir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What if I record something myself using the "voice recorder" function and want to play it? Will that have to be run by the RIAA first? Will I be forbidden from exchanging my own recordings (of my baby laughing or whatever) with my friends?

    If not, then surely someone will make a simple scrubber app that makes an MP3 look to the phone like a user-recorded sound.

    --
    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    1. Re:Will all audio be screened? by raju1kabir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No one needs to hear your baby laughing.

      My intention was to come up with an example in which there was no conceivable argument of corporate copyright interest. I should have thought that would be obvious given the context.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
  8. It's Not Already? by dancingmad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am more surprised that this isn't already the case. I lived in Japan for several years and owned a few au phones. My first year I had a low end au phone and the two years after I had a higher end Casio. The higher end had some great features - good camera, 1seg TV, Japanese/English dictionary etc., but it was locked down to all hell. I couldn't even get my own ringtones on it, let alone MP3s or apps. As much as I wanted to customize my phone and not pay through the nose for approved stuff, I could do nothing.

    Feature-wise my current Blackberry Curve is way behind my au phone, but I can at least use it's Bluetooth to connect to my laptop and use my own MP3s as ringtones.

    --
    "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
  9. You know the answer by acehole · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Who would pay for the costs of the DRM checks, and what would happen if no connection could be established?"

    If anything the last decade has taught us about the modus operandi of music industries is that they simply dont care and want their dollars. Who would pick up the tab for the check? The phone user. What would happen if there was no connection? No music.

    --
    Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
    1. Re:You know the answer by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... Resulting in network providers constantly receiving calls from phone users who couldn't play any music after only two days of ownership as the authorisation server was being hammered / poor network service, and thousands of consumers simply stopping the direct debits.

      What can they do? "Urrr... You're contractually obliged for 24 months to pay us £25 per month for the service." "Oh, right. You're contractually obliged to provide the service I pay for. QED, bitch."

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:You know the answer by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're contractually obliged to provide the service I pay for

      You really didn't read that contract, did you?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  10. will fail by xigxag · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All these hypothetical examples are beside the point. If the music industry wants this implemented, it will likely happen.

    But even so, it won't work. Japan's music industry is even more moribund than the US industry. It got fat and comfortable charging for singles the equivalent of what US consumers charge for albums, and for albums, the equivalent of US$30 or more. Meanwhile it pushes the same arthritic set of superstars that have dominated their pop scene for 10, 15, 20 years or more. The end result is that the cost of entry for unknown acts is too high, new music suffers. Japanese consumers have grown accustomed to buying albums used and ripping them. Locking mobiles will just increase the sales of walkmans and ipods and will make it more of a no-brainer to circumvent DRM'ed music.

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  11. This is ridiculous by Blue_Wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I't not just the legally purchased music that I can legally put on my ipod now - and will likely want to put on my new phone to minimise the number of devices I carry. Bad though that is, this is much nastier. For instance, one of my friends plays in an amateur band. He gives us MP3s of their material - in fact the 10 or so of us that get given this are probably the entirety of their regular audience. They do it for love and the delight that people are listening to their stuff - for the same reason they put cliups on youtube. Under this silly scheme, even the copyright owner couldn't listen to their own stuff on their own phone!

  12. JASRAC Strikes Again... by Xin+Jing · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember living in Okinawa back in 1993, JASRAC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASRAC cracked down (and again in 2006) on club owners that played pre-recorded music at bars and nightclubs and profited by selling drinks and food to customers. Some clubs faced retroactive fines in the tens of thousands of Yen and were forced to close down. Just outside the gate near Kadena was the 'A-Sign Sound Bar' that used to play requests, the entire side of an album, man those were good times. Ah, the good old days: Okinawa and lots of Orion beer.

    1. Re:JASRAC Strikes Again... by rabiddeity · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some clubs faced retroactive fines in the tens of thousands of Yen and were forced to close down.

      Don't mean to break your stride, but you do realize that ten thousand yen is less than US$100, right?

  13. Re:I hope the Music industry pays the connection c by Imrik · · Score: 2, Informative

    They wouldn't be using your money without your permission, by trying to play the song you'd be giving them permission. At least that's how their lawyers would probably argue it.

  14. iPhone influence? by gashwrecker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This may be a response to the growing popularity of the iPhone in Japan. There's an increasing number of people who download mp3s or buy DRM-free music from sites like http://www.hearjapan.com/, and this is cutting into the profitable cell phone mp3 market.

  15. Re:I hope the Music industry pays the connection c by gsslay · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are translating into English, you use an English word your readers will understand.

    What a depressing pandering to ignorance. What's wrong finding out who is involved and what they are? You know, actually stepping outside your insular little bubble and learning something new? Pinning this on the usual boogeyman is just lazy and dishonest.

    By your logic, when the Japanese Prime Minister does something Slashdot readers should be told in translation what "Barack Obama" is up to in Japan. After all, who knows or recognises Taro Aso? Who cares they are completely different people?

    Why stop there? I'm not sure about this "Japan", best translate it as "Hawaii".

  16. this is only the start by Wierdy1024 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is just so they can get the infrastructure in place for per-play or per-minute music charging. It would be trivial to hook this server up to the phone companies billing system to bill users every time they played a song.

    The next step is then to provide addons to contracts offering "unlimited" songs, for only an additional $15 per month...

  17. Re:I hope the Music industry pays the connection c by Blue+Stone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >Japan. Recording Industry Association of *America*.

    Same arseholes, different toilet.

    We still get shat upon.

    Questions?

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
  18. MPAA - RIAA Scum by im+just+cannonfodder · · Score: 2, Informative

    lets not for get who is actually behind the MPAA - RIAA, these are the companies that need to be targeted and boycotted into changing their ways, purchase only 2nd hand media, & avoid all sony products as much as possible, why allow these scum suits to dictate hardware/software DRM anymore.

    Name and shame the companies as all the **AA trade group name is for is to protect the corporate globalists gatekeepers from bad press.

    RIAA, CRIA, SOUNDEXCHANGE, BPI, IFPI, Ect:

    # Sony BMG Music Entertainment
    # Warner Music Group
    # Universal Music Group
    # EMI

    MPAA, MPA, FACT, AFACT, Ect:

    # Sony Pictures
    # Warner Bros. (Time Warner)
    # Universal Studios (NBC Universal)
    # The Walt Disney Company
    # 20th Century Fox (News Corporation)
    # Paramount Pictures Viacom--(DreamWorks owners since February 2006)



    ========

    If Sony payola (google it) wasn't already bad enough to destroy all indie competition already you have this scam.


    Is it justified to steal from thieves? READ ON.


    RIAA Claims Ownership of All Artist Royalties For Internet Radio
    http://slashdot.org/articles/07/04/29/0335224.shtml

    "With the furor over the impending rate hike for Internet radio stations, wouldn't a good solution be for streaming internet stations to simply not play RIAA-affiliated labels' music and focus on independent artists? Sounds good, except that the RIAA's affiliate organization SoundExchange claims it has the right to collect royalties for any artist, no matter if they have signed with an RIAA label or not. 'SoundExchange (the RIAA) considers any digital performance of a song as falling under their compulsory license. If any artist records a song, SoundExchange has the right to collect royalties for its performance on Internet radio. Artists can offer to download their music for free, but they cannot offer their songs to Internet radio for free ... So how it works is that SoundExchange collects money through compulsory royalties from Webcasters and holds onto the money. If a label or artist wants their share of the money, they must become a member of SoundExchange and pay a fee to collect their royalties.'"

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/24/141326/870

  19. Assuming no sharing by professorguy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Having this system in place will make sellers willing to provide more music. Because there is lots of popular music that HASN'T been ripped into downloadable form. FInally, the long song drought is OVER!

  20. I can imagine the headlines... by XDirtypunkX · · Score: 2, Funny

    Travel to another country, listen to your music. Enjoy your $20000 roaming data charge.