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Microsoft Says Google Chrome Frame Makes IE Less Secure

Mark writes "The release of Google Chrome Frame, a new open source plugin that injects Chrome's renderer and JavaScript engine into Microsoft's browser, earlier this week had many web developers happily dancing long through the night. Finally, someone had found a way to get Internet Explorer users up to speed on the Web. Microsoft, on the other hand, is warning IE users that it does not recommend installing the plugin. What does the company have against the plugin? It makes Internet Explorer less secure. 'With Internet Explorer 8, we made significant advancements and updates to make the browser safer for our customers,' a Microsoft spokesperson told Ars. 'Given the security issues with plugins in general and Google Chrome in particular, Google Chrome Frame running as a plugin has doubled the attack area for malware and malicious scripts. This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take.'"

60 of 459 comments (clear)

  1. kettle/black by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    stones/glasshouses

    1. Re:kettle/black by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know. Ho hum. Someone tell Microsoft to wake me up when they get around to actually making a decent browser. How many years has it been? 13 years?

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:kettle/black by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps you don't remember, but IE 5 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of Netscape. There's a reason EVERYBODY dumped Netscape, and it wasn't just "it came with Windows", because at first, it didn't...

      Also, IE7 and 8 (on Vista and Windows 7) has a bunch of really impressive security features, albeit they're still behind in standards. And "accelerators" are extremely useful.

      That said, I still use Firefox (Somebody PLEASE make AdBlock Plus for Chrome and IE please! )

    3. Re:kettle/black by Vindicator9000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      But really, no one should throw stones, right? As a kid, I was always taught that it's not nice to throw stones at people. Unless of course, you were trapped in a glass house and needed to get out. If you have a pile of stones next to you, go ahead and throw them. Then you won't be trapped anymore! So really, people in glass houses are the only ones who should throw stones. Right?

    4. Re:kettle/black by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps you don't remember, but IE 5 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of Netscape.

      Great, that happened *ten* years ago. What has happened since? They've been chasing the Fox for past *five* years.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    5. Re:kettle/black by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 3, Funny

      people in glass houses are the only ones who should throw stones. Right?

      Wrong. People in glass houses shouldn't undress.

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    6. Re:kettle/black by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also, IE7 and 8 (on Vista and Windows 7) has a bunch of really impressive security features...

      And even more impressive bloat, *especially* with regards to screen real estate, even with all the bars disabled. It's as if IE is parodying itself. Ever try using IE8 on a netbook? It doesn't work, you have to enter kiosk mode for it to be remotely useful. There's no thought to form or function, they just barfed menus all over the place and called it "progress".

    7. Re:kettle/black by Kagetsuki · · Score: 5, Informative

      IE 5 was great, but MS making IE5 great and taking the market lead seems to have given them the idea that they could implement their own features all on their own and make everyone conform to their standards, which they are still doing now. The thing is the way Internet explorer implemented a lot of features gave a lot of things that just couldn't be easily done or done at all until HTML5 was actually adopted. The problem there is that HTML 5 took forever. Evolution of the web by its own standards committee has been gruelingly slow and the massive amount of garbage that has come out in-between and the amount of junk included in HTML 5 itself is astounding. Even if you could say some new features submitted are great there is just so much overlapping of features it's hard to tell what is the best way to do anything now. Do you write a site with canvas and hope people using IE will install chrome frame? Do you write two versions of the same site, one using "standard" HTML 5/XML Namespaces/SVG/Canvas and one using whatever Microsoft developed 5 years ago to achieve the same thing but in the Microsoft way? Speaking of SVG, the Adobe SVG plugin for IE can't read modern SVG files and the google SVG to flash translator breaks if you use any other new web technology with it (xlink for example). And don't even get me started on how terrible Flash is, it's just depressing. Java web launch? Has anybody even heard of it? How many general PC users even have the Java plug-in properly installed (I'm betting 3 year old can count that high)? The internet sucks and it sucks in two different directions: the "anything goes and we'll do whatever we want Microsoft direction" and the "we'll do everything you want but we'll fight about how to do it for 5 years, then never actually call the standard finalized so we can just arbitrarily change it and if any browser developers complain we'll just tell them they shouldn't have implemented it if it wasn't finalized" W3C/Gecko/Webkit/Opera direction.

      Maybe we should just start over completely. Make a new standard that doesn't rely on the rigid and inflexible concept of tags and use a scripting language and have a standard API. Leave HTML for TEXT formatting, and return it back to a document formatting language, leaving dynamic content to a totally separate system....

    8. Re:kettle/black by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

      Making IE less secure is like making water more wet.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:kettle/black by noundi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft Says Google Chrome Frame Makes IE Less Secure

      Of course they do! Disregard the fact that they provide no evidence at all, and that they use this:

      Google Chrome Frame running as a plugin has doubled the attack area for malware and malicious scripts.

      as an argument to prove their point (???), but really, this is Googles way of taking over the MS userbase as explained here, and MS knows it. If Google wave becomes a hit, people will remember this move as the first important joust won by Google. IE with its crippled javascript hopes to prevent the popularity of Google wave by using scorched earth policy.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    10. Re:kettle/black by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you're one of the rarest groups of all the fish in the pond, so to speak, per-se.

      Most of us like companies that patch vulnerabilities much faster/make browsers that are standards compliant, both from a legal perspective (meaning our employers are happier -not for me personally), and also from a safety/update perspective.

    11. Re:kettle/black by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And where are these supposed vulnerabilities, anyway? If Microsoft wanted IE to be secure they'd abandon hActive-X and drop j-script in favor of javascript.

      I don't know why anyone but the ignorant would run IE. It (and all of Microsoft's offerings) have always been less secure than just about everyone else's.

    12. Re:kettle/black by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even if that person is Bree Olson?

      Gah, knew I shouldn't have googled her at work.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    13. Re:kettle/black by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They make a valid point. IE has holes. Chrome has holes. IE with a Chrome plugin can be exploited by both vectors. There should be no debate over the fact that IE+Chrome is less secure than IE without Chrome. That is distracting from the real question, however, which is whether IE without Chrome is less secure than Chrome without IE.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    14. Re:kettle/black by MadCow42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      >>Wrong. People in glass houses shouldn't undress.

      No - people in glass houses should undress... but people shouldn't buy glass houses unless they're hot 21-year-old nurses.

      --
      I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
    15. Re:kettle/black by the_B0fh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      gee, and it really helps your case when the Microsoft rep on the HTML5 was one of the key people delaying the standard, isn't it?

    16. Re:kettle/black by igaborf · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even if that person is Bree Olson?

      Gah, knew I shouldn't have googled her at work.

      You misspelled "ogled."

    17. Re:kettle/black by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 3, Funny

      IE already has extensions, it has for AGES. At least since IE 5.5.

      How do you think Google Toolbar runs in IE? Magic? Powdered unicorn horn? Hell, THIS VERY SLASHDOT STORY is about an IE extension.

      What the hell drug did Mozilla give everybody to make them think IE doesn't have extensions? I feel like I'm the last human left and everybody else has been replaced by body-snatchers!!

    18. Re:kettle/black by gig · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IE8 is terrible. It is 2x slower than every other browser and it has no HTML5 features. It's only good when compared to IE6 from 2001. Also, IE8 is over 25 megabytes and runs only on Wintel. For comparison, WebKit is 5 megabytes and runs on Windows, Mac, Linux and on x32, x64, PowerPC, and ARM.

      There is just no excuse for the low quality of Internet Explorer. Microsoft has been at this longer than any other browser maker. Safari is from early 2003, Firefox from late 2004, Chrome from 2008, but IE is from 1995. That is a dramatic head start and yet IE8 is way, way behind the other browsers.

  2. Friends? by Jeoh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Friends don't let friends use Internet Explorer anyway.

    1. Re:Friends? by Mikkeles · · Score: 5, Funny

      'This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take.'

      They have friends, much less family?

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    2. Re:Friends? by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read a fantastic interview with one of the lead IE developers as they were prepping the launch of IE 7. He said his daughter came home from school one day and asked him if he was responsible for breaking the web.

      In the interview, he seemed to imply the current IE team feels guilty and responsible for previous versions being so poor in standards compliance, and that the new developers were pushing to make IE more complaint in the future.

      Technically, they have succeeded. IE 7 and 8 are more complaint. They still however are not very compliant on the whole.

      So yes, they have families. And even their beloved daughters call them out for IE's problems.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    3. Re:Friends? by pacinpm · · Score: 5, Funny

      I find the lack of mention of children and terrorists disturbing.

    4. Re:Friends? by benwiggy · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...the new developers were pushing to make IE more complaint in the future.

      Technically, they have succeeded. IE 7 and 8 are more complaint.

      Feel the delicious irony from an incorrect vowel transposition!

    5. Re:Friends? by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are standards for HTML? Who knew?

      FWIW, as of this morning, the W3C Validator [http://validator.w3.org] reports

      www.google.com ------------ 39 Errors, 2 warning(s)
      www.microsoft.com -------- 300 Errors, 31 warning(s)
      www.apple.com -------------- 6 Errors, 1 warning(s)
      www.bing.com -------------- 12 Errors
      http://validator.w3.org/ ------ Sorry! This document can not be checked
      www.slashdot.org ---------- 64 Errors, 2 warning(s)

      And don't those web page designers who are "dancing for joy" deserve a bit of credit for this shambles? I'd like to believe that they won't immediately start using features that work in chrome, but not IE because "all the user has to do is download a plugin." But if past experience is any guide, that is exactly what many of them will do.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  3. Well yes by Canazza · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ofcourse it makes it less secure, it lets you run Javascript faster, so that all those drive-by malware installers can execute faster!

    --
    It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    1. Re:Well yes by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought plug-ins/add-ons ran as part of the host browsers CPU process, and thus if IE is sandboxed wouldn't Chrome also be sandboxed?

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
  4. Well they would say that wouldn't they by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Informative

    What do you expect; "This is great now our customers can access standards-compliant sites and have a faster, smoother web experience"?

    1. Re:Well they would say that wouldn't they by jgardia · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was expecting "Microsoft Says Google Chrome Frame Makes IE even Less Secure"

    2. Re:Well they would say that wouldn't they by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Microsoft pretends IE could possibly be made less secure by changing anything about it."

  5. Security issues with Google Chrome? by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dear Microsoft:

    Citation please. Evidence. Facts. Or retract.

    'k thanks,

    Google

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by selven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google has a horrible history with security?

    2. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, technically, they may be right. It does lead to more attack surface, and many plugins have permissions the browser doesn't allow itself. And Microsoft product security has increased, to the point where I'm fairly confident that the security risks of their Javascript interpreter are comparable with other major browsers. And unless Google *forces* updates to the plugin, security patches will never be applied; few people run Windows Update, but even fewer update non-MS products.

      Of course, those arguments mostly argue for rejecting the *plugin*. *Replacing* IE8 with Chrome (or your browser of choice) means you have only one program's attack surface to worry about again. I'm guessing this is the unspoken part of MS's argument.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    3. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by ByOhTek · · Score: 3, Informative

      Every 6 months to a year it seems there is yet another goof up that lets users access other users email (gmail) or data (google docs).

      While this is still better than the track record on many MS products, it still leads me to suspect the security of Google. Face it, they are good at distributing information, not hiding it... Now, unless *EVERY* Google security hole is already in IE, new holes will be added.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    4. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    5. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Inciteful as the statement is, it's true... There's no way it can be false. A browser containing IE's engine *and* WebKit has all the security holes from both, and all the security holes gained in pushing one into the other.

      So yes, microsoft is right, but rather missing the point... If you're using a chrome frame, you're probably not using IE frames, which means that you're as secure as WebKit's security flaws.

      Why you'd do that rather than just using chrome I have no idea though.

    6. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

      News: Vulnerability in google chrome
      News: Vulnerability in Mozilla Firefox
      News: Some part of Internet explorer is safe!

      See? :)

    7. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every 6 months to a year it seems there is yet another goof up that lets users access other users email (gmail) or data (google docs).

      Unless I'm missing something, most of this revolves around users accessing their data through HTTP over insecure wireless, neither of which is required by Google.

      It can be as simple as using https://mail.google.com/

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    8. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every 6 months to a year it seems there is yet another goof up that lets users access other users email (gmail) or data (google docs).

      Your premise is wrong, hence your argument is wrong. All those goof-ups were not with the gmail you use, or the google docs you use. They were with contractual installations in colleges, etc. It's really like saying "Oh, hey, MS Exchange in X college got hacked, MS's security sucks!"

    9. Re:Security issues with Google Chrome? by vitaflo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Inciteful as the statement is, it's true... There's no way it can be false. A browser containing IE's engine *and* WebKit has all the security holes from both, and all the security holes gained in pushing one into the other.

      It's also true for any plug in you use in IE. I'm curious if MS would say the same about Flash, Java, etc? Because they all introduce their own security problems in IE in a similar way as Chrome Frame. The fact that MS is singling out Chrome Frame says more about how MS feels about Google than it does about the security of their browser.

  6. I agree by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take.""

    . . . which is why one should run Firefox, konqueror, Mozilla, or Opera on Linux, Solaris, or BSD instead.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  7. It's alright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm not Microsoft's friend or family.

  8. Of course by PhasmatisApparatus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course it doubles the attack rate of malicious scripts... It makes Javascript run twice as fast.

    In other news, Microsoft has said that Moores Law is a security risk, because viruses can install themselves twice as fast every 18 months.

  9. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You just made one of the most important arguments against Silverlight official.

    1. Re:Thanks by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not only an argument directly from Microsoft against Silverlight but also against Flash!

      Why is Microsoft helping us like that?

  10. Textbook FUD by Lemming+Mark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Given the security issues with plugins in general and Google Chrome in particular"

    O RLY?

    I'm happy to believe that IE8 actually has a good security model. I'm happy to believe that Chrome is not without flaws. But, really, Google have gone through fairly considerable pain and implemented quite strict sandboxing techniques for Chrome, to contain any problems in the renderer. It's pretty solid. Maybe it's better than IE8, maybe not. But just hand waving and going "Oh yes, *especially* Chrome" as if it's common knowledge that it's insecure is simply FUD.

    The point about increasing the attack surface area seems more valid, perhaps, though it really depends on how this plugin works. If there are really twice as many places available at once then yes, that is a worry. If you'd have to get through Chrome's security and then through IE8's security, that actually sounds quite good. Possibly the biggest security worry I see is in encouraging users to think that installing a large, scary plugin that basically replaces the guts of their browser is a normal occurrence that will make their internet experience better.

    1. Re:Textbook FUD by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm happy to believe that IE8 actually has a good security model.

      And I thought that included sandboxing plugins? How can any plugin be a serious security threat with MS went through such pains to make IE bulletproof?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  11. Double Standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So... forcing the .NET plug-in on Firefox users was OK, but a voluntary add-on from Google is a security risk? Good to know.

    1. Re:Double Standards by gabebear · · Score: 5, Informative

      They not only add the .Net plugin to Firefox without asking you, they change the useragent string for Firefox... oh and the .Net plugin doesn't have a built-in uninstaller like every other plugin.

      I thought I had a virus the first time I noticed it. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/05/microsoft_update_quietly_insta.html

  12. Ingrates! by dangitman · · Score: 3, Funny

    a new open source plugin that injects Chrome's renderer and JavaScript engine into Microsoft's browser, earlier this week had many web developers happily dancing long through the night.

    Dancing Developers?? Get back to developing webs, like you're supposed to be doing! Didn't anybody tell you that you are no good at dancing?

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  13. Re:I'm Taking Notes by siddesu · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sweet Shimmer Glitter Lube. In juicy apple, boysenberry, pink champagne or pina colada.

  14. Families by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take.

    Especially the children. Think of the children!

    He should have used "mortal danger" instead of simply "risk". Also, change "would recommend" for "let". And add some exclamations, for god's sake, this is serious.

    Thus, the closing sentence should be:
    "This is not a mortal danger we let our children take!"

    However, once you've decided to push factless crap with fear mongering, at least do it with style.

    I recommend:
    "If you allow your children to install the google demon, your entire family will suffer an eternity of pain, in HELL!"

  15. My family disowned me after I installed it. by lawnsprinkler · · Score: 4, Funny

    "This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take." The Microsoft representative further stated that "Allowing your children to use the Google Chrome Frame plugin is tantamount to child abuse. In fact, we're not so sure that anyone installing this is truly capable of feeling love. What kind of heartless monster would willingly install this on their loved ones' browser?"

  16. Thanks Microsoft... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I heard about this but I wasn't going to install it yet. I don't use a lot of I.E. stuff, but what I do is Javascript intensive, so now that I know that your don't like it at Microsoft I have now installed it. Thanks for the heads up... since you don't like it there must be a reason to give it a look.

  17. Sounds to me that Microsoft... by dgun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ..is scared.

    So Microsoft, how does it feel? How does it feel to have a big bad company with a near monopoly in one market (Google in search) threaten your stake in a different market (browsers)?

    --
    FAQs are evil.
  18. I have great respect for Google by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 3, Funny

    But I doubt that even they could make IE less secure than it already is.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  19. Friends and family by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well of course Microsoft "doesn't recommend" their friends and family use the Chrome plugin. If they did, next thing you know their friends and family are down at the T-Mobile shop eying Android phones, or over at the Apple Store snapping up an iPhone. As long as those friends and family are only exposed to Microsoft products, they'll never realize that the grass, indeed, really is greener on the other side of that fence - because those other guys actually feed and water their lawn!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  20. Actually MS is right. by Deathlizard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By running this plugin, you would be exposing yourself to not only Possible IE exploits, but possible Chrome Exploits as well. It would be much safer to run the Chrome browser standalone since it reduces the attack surface. It would probably be faster standalone too.

    1. Re:Actually MS is right. by RareButSeriousSideEf · · Score: 4, Informative

      +1.

      I actually got one of my systems pwned (for the first time in > 10 years) via Chrome, in incognito mode no less. Not saying that any other browser would have stopped it, least of all IE; it was a Java -- not javascript -- vulnerability... http://blog.cr0.org/2009/05/write-once-own-everyone.html. This vulnerability allowed an applet to escape both Chrome's and Java's sandboxing. The point is just that no browser is by itself a silver bullet of invulnerability, especially when plugins and external runtimes are involved.

      Now I run Chrome standalone with the -disable-java command line switch to cut the attack surface down a bit. It's not as versatile as NoScript in FF, but you can run Chrome instances with javascript, plugins, etc. disabled on an individual basis. A list is at http://www.chromeplugins.org/tips-tricks/chrome-command-line-switches/.

  21. Mistaken market. by neo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google is not in the business of providing searches. Google is in the business of selling ads. It just happens that having the best search gives you more eyeballs on your ads. They leverage that advantage to gain share in other markets. It does sound like another company I've heard about.

    But you're on target here, this is obviously not comfortable for Microsoft. Five years ago they wouldn't have even bothered to issue a response. This is the kind of press release that is pure fear.

    Someone has made a plug-in for your browser that makes it 8X faster.

    • It shows incompetence of your developers that someone else had apparently patched your buggy/slow software.
    • Eventually people learn that it's actually another browser. Most people don't even know what a browser is.
    • Why use something in emulation when you can run the real thing? People will switch.

    It's something I said a long long long time ago. What can kill Microsoft? Something free.