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Canadian Minister Lies On Net Surveillance Claims

Posted by kdawson on from the pants-on-fire dept.

An anonymous reader writes "As we discussed last month, the Canadian government has introduced Internet surveillance legislation that requires ISPs to disclose customer information without a warrant. Peter Van Loan, the Minister in charge, claims that a Vancouver kidnapping earlier this year shows the need for these powers. Michael Geist did some digging and revealed this as a lie — the Vancouver police acknowledge that the case did not involve an ISP request and the suspect is now in custody."

155 comments

  1. Lessons from the Bush Administration. by conureman · · Score: 0, Troll

    Who got it from the Hitler Administration.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    1. Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What, lying on surveillance claims?

      What should he lie on? Is it more comfortable than a latex-based memory-foam?

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    2. Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Informative

      9/11 was America's Reichstag fire.

    3. Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 0, Troll

      Troll??? More like truth. For the right-wing Bush-lover who modded him troll, try to look up the connection between the Bush family and the Hitler regime during WWII. In other news, apparently the Soviets didn't really find Hitler's body at his bunker.

      --
      Similar to the upcoming US election results
    4. Re:Lessons from the Bush Administration. by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      More like the Hindenburg Administration, but that's another story.

  2. STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A politician lied? Oh my God, this is the most unexpected thing in the history of the universe. Everybody! Stop whatever it is you're doing and pay attention to the one and only lying politician in the world!

    1. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Jerry+Rivers · · Score: 1, Funny

      Or perhaps he was simply misinformed or mistaken.

      --
      The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
    2. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh, come on. It's his JOB to know. The guy either lied or he's incompetent. Either way, fire the bum!

    3. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by selven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So if you do something bad, but do it a lot, it becomes normal and acceptable?

    4. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by MrMista_B · · Score: 1

      And you accept it?

      Why?

    5. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep, we should completely ignore it and let the lie stand unchallenged, so that a bad piece of legislation can become a law for the wrong reason.

    6. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Tx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or perhaps he was simply misinformed or mistaken.

      So you mean that rather than being a liar, he might just be ignorant and incompetent? It's the job of politicians to get their facts straight when formulating the laws of the land. Our politicians are always complaining that people don't trust them any more, and that young people are disillusioned with politics. Well perhaps if we could trust what they fecking said, then that wouldn't be the case. It doesn't matter one jot whether this guy flat out lied, or whether he somehow conveniently got his facts wrong, it's just yet another event to knock the credibility of politicians back into the gutter.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    7. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by compro01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Distinctly unlikely. The guy got 3 times as many votes as the closest competition in the last election.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    8. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Deltaspectre · · Score: 1

      Without reading anything else, it seems like it might be the case that he was thinking they could have apprehended the kidnapper even faster if this legislation had been in place. Not a lie, but definitely not a reason to put it in place either.

      --
      My UID is prime... is yours?
    9. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The only thing this story proves is recall and referendum legislation is desperately needed. In fact we need to change the Canadian constitution to accomplish it.

    10. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by conureman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been looking at the top of the Google results for Peter Van Loan, and he seems to be the Canadian version of Don Rumsfeld. Honest mistake? YMMV.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    11. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 1
      I don't think it's normally possible to not be ignorant and incompetent, and also be an elected politician. Most of them are still living in the Dark Ages, and think legislative fiat can change the laws of physics et al.

      And yes, some of them do lie, but I've come to the conclusion most just aren't that bright to begin with.

      --
      Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
    12. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by value_added · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's the job of politicians to get their facts straight when formulating the laws of the land.

      A noble sentiment for an ideal world.

      In the real world, regrettably, democracies tend to have constitutents (known in the world of software development and systems administration as "lusers"), who expect their elected leaders to deliver. Shortsighted and selfish, to be sure, but that's another subject. The salient point is most don't care how they deliver or what the facts really are, so long as they get what they want.

      As for the correctness of facts, it's the job of the press to inform us, which means checking the facts as stated and reporting accordingly. For whatever reason, the press isn't doing their job, and the responsibility has fallen to an enterprising University professor and his blog.

      Both the politican the press should be taken to task for their failings, but kudos to Michael Geist for his efforts.

    13. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it should work like this: If a politician does something wrong by incompetence, they get fired. If they do something wrong intentionally (ex lie) they get set on fire. Then fired. Then set on fire again. If the public servants feel they do not need to serve the public, we should off random high level malicious politicians to keep them on their toes. Those who take those jobs should do them selflessly or pay the piper.

    14. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by The+Yuckinator · · Score: 3, Informative

      From TFS:

      "...the Vancouver police acknowledge that the case did not involve an ISP request and the suspect is now in custody."

      So no, there was no reason that any legislation like this would have sped up the apprehension of the kidnapper because they weren't looking to the ISP for evidence in the first place. Unfortunately that means YES, it was definitely a lie. Even if it's only from a position of ignorance, the MINISTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY better get his facts straight before spewing forth on any topic, let alone one that impacts every online citizen in the country.

      It's almost unheard of for Canadian politicians to be removed from office outside of an election but I'd say if the PM wants to keep any sort of respectability, he will need to remove Mr Van Loan from cabinet first thing on Monday morning.

    15. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Only proves that democracy is the dictatorship of the stupid.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nobody is an expert on everything. That's a fact. Funny though that we kinda expect that from politicians.

      He got asked about it and instead of giving the honest answer (i.e. "I dunno, but I'll ask my experts and come back to you") he made up some answer. Why? Because for some odd reason people expect politicians to have an answer for everything.

      Personally I'd prefer a politician who just admits that he doesn't have an answer for everything but at least is honest. I'm just fed up with BS answers to the tune of "Get offa my back and just shut up".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with politicians is that they are people in a position where they can largely ignore the law.

      I think anyone, no matter how honest he THINKS he is, will sooner or later succumb to tempation and abuse his power.

    18. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by joocemann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't fire politicians, you hang and eviscerate them. Ask the Italians.

      Firing them would require a whole dismantling of systematic corporatism/cronyism along with a wait for them to finish their term in office. And we all know that doesn't work at all.

      I'm still way too happy to feel the need to take it that far. I think we all are, which would be a good explanation as to why 'we the people' haven't done anything about the atrocities of government for a century or more. Wouldn't you agree? I don't see a stone in your hand, nor mine.

      I honestly thought legislation about weapon controls would blow the 'revolution threshold' for NRA members... apparently they, too, are too happy to have cold dead hands.

      Really think about it... how fucked are we? Not that bad... not bad at all, really.

    19. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by CokeBear · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a Canadian, I can assure you that he most certainly is the Canadian version of Don Rumsfeld. And the Prime Minister is our very own Dick Cheney. (He's not Bush, he's much smarter than that, which makes him all the more dangerous)

      --
      Reality has a liberal bias
    20. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please. You think the Liberals would do any better?

    21. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I do. And the Liberals aren't the only choice but they are the most likely of the rest

    22. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by rueger · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...but I'd say if the PM wants to keep any sort of respectability ...

      Ah, you must be a recent immigrant to this country...

      --
      Three Squirrels
    23. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all of our choices are mediocre, but I think the liberals are more mediocre than the harper & crew so there you have it

    24. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      The problem with politicians is that they are people.

      There, corrected that for you.

    25. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by RelaxedTension · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He got asked about it and instead of giving the honest answer (i.e. "I dunno, but I'll ask my experts and come back to you") he made up some answer. Why? Because for some odd reason people expect politicians to have an answer for everything.

      I gotta call bullshit on this one. As stated earlier, it's specifically his job to know this. He is writing a law that he knows will erode personal rights of privacy, and also knows the backlash that is possible. If he is not fully aware that he has "enhanced" the story, then he has no business writing the law in the first place.

    26. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by gwait · · Score: 1

      Harper appointed a creationist as science minister.

      http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/17/canadas-science-mini.html

      Harper and gang are moronic G W Bush wannabees.

      The Conservatives think it's ok to sue a teenager for $20,000.00 per song for "illegally" torrenting a song that costs 99 cents on itunes,
      so that the big media broadcasters can stay rich. Anyone actually vote for that issue? No? Gee, I wonder why the politicians think Canadian parents who voted for them might like this in place?

      http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3025/125/

      --
      Bavarian Purity Law of Rice Krispie Squares: Rice Krispies, Marshmallows, Butter, Vanilla.
    27. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Jerry+Rivers · · Score: 1

      Apparently most Canadians who care disagree with you, which is why the Liberals are currently trailing the Tories by 6% in the polls. Even the leftist NDP is currently siding with the Tories to prevent an unwanted election that the careless Liberals are trying to force.

      --
      The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
    28. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this changing world the all the eyes are upon you ... kudos to the internet, at least for politicians
      I just hope they don't figure out how to manipulate this medium as well

    29. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Jerry+Rivers · · Score: 1

      As another Canadian I can assure that some Canadians are just as biased and partisan as the worst Republicans masquerading as liberals. They do ANYTHING, call you any name, invoke the worst demons to try and persuade that they are somehow more righteous than all those Canadians don't agree with them.

      --
      The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
    30. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Jerry+Rivers · · Score: 1

      "So you mean that rather than being a liar, he might just be ignorant and incompetent?"

      Perhaps yes. He has NOTHING to gain from being a liar. Especially with a possible election looming.

      --
      The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
    31. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's the same concept as trying to boil a live frog. If you just throw it in boiling water it will immediately jump out, foiling your attempt to boil it. If, however, you throw it in cool water and slowly heat it, the frog won't jump out. It will stay comfortable while it cooks, up until the point at which it is cooked enough that it dies.

      Had legislatures simply dumped all the laws, restrictions, etc. that we have now on the founding generation, there would have been a major revolt. It would never work. But if you change just a few things a year, over the course of decades and centuries the population will tolerate quite a lot, because no one issue is big enough to fight for. Space them out a bit and the tolerance threshold is never reached.

      One day we'll just wake up dead. ;)

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    32. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Unordained · · Score: 1

      http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp

      The anecdote is false, though that doesn't necessarily invalidate your point. But we should probably find a better way to convey it.

    33. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by knauerw1 · · Score: 1

      One day we'll just wake up dead. ;)

      Man, you can't wake up dead!

    34. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Actually, that is exactly what GP wants. Because else he would have to stop complaining and staying in a pathetic state of deliberate inaction. And that would be just terrible. Doing something about is? Bah. Not with him. Ever!

      I wonder how he would have performed in 1933 in Germany...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    35. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by lonecrow · · Score: 1

      He is offering evidence to warrant his claim. If the evidence is false his claim is not supported and should be tossed out unless better evidence is provided. So regardless of whether he knew the evidence was false or not his claim, and the law, should be discarded.

    36. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Wow, the line an the end of the page is really fitting this time: "Shannon's Observation: Nothing is so frustrating as a bad situation that is beginning to improve."

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    37. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There, fixed that for you.

      There, fixed that for you.

    38. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by quotationspage · · Score: 1

      So if you do something bad, but do it a lot, it becomes normal and acceptable?

      YES as per Nike.

      --
      check nagaiah portfolio to buy or sell financial assets in bombay stock exchange
    39. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aw shit, I'm out of Kleenex again.

      There, fixed fixing that fix for you.

    40. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If you ask the Irish whether they want to become a colony of Belgium and allow abortion, they'll vote no.

      But then if you say "OK, you don't have to have abortions" you'll get killed in the stampede to vote yes.

      How about that?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    41. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by MartinSchou · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm not sure Glenn Beck would agree. Nor would the frog he tosses into the boiling water.

    42. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by DangerFace · · Score: 1

      I assume it works the same way in Canada as it does here in the UK. I know a few civil servants (as in, employees of government) who work directly with Members of Parliament, and whenever an MP has to do a press conference or similar they put together a brief. This brief could be long and detailed, but is more than likely to be a few pages of bullet points, pretty graphs, and very, very simple information.

      The reason for this is that MPs have very little actual power and very little use for actual knowledge. In a buzzword sense, they are the blue sky thinkers - they let off the thought grenades and let other people tidy up the mind juice. Knowing stuff is for the people who actually write the laws - you don't seriously think an actual legislator sits down and writes several thousand pages of law, consults with experts in case law and senior judges, runs focus groups on what to call the sections of laws, etc.?

      Newsflash: politicians are good at politics, and spending a life becoming one of the best in the country at something (in this case politics) leaves little time for learning stuff and keeping up to date with it, especially when you don't know what you're going to be in charge of until you're in charge of it.

      In summary, this guy is a moron, and Western political systems are set up to put the wrong people in charge.

      --
      Be smart, help people!
    43. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 1

      Oh, come on. It's his JOB to know. The guy either lied or he's incompetent. Either way, fire the bum!

      the guy actually represents my riding-Ontario's York Region area, which is at least 2 time zones away from Vancouver. Imagine a New Yorker commenting on a situation in Seattle. His understanding of the situation is not based on 1st hand knowledge, he heard it from a guy who's cousin's roommate had a friend who heard about it on the news....

      I've tried to fire his ass the last 4 municipal elections, but the rest of the town is working against me.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    44. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the most constructive comment I've read all year at /. - and it's typical of the lame attitude of so many netizens. It stinks.

    45. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by The+Yuckinator · · Score: 1

      My mistake!
       
      ...If the office of the PM wants to keep any respectability...

    46. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Wowsers · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      No, what happened to the Irish Lisbon Treaty vote was as follows:

      Original question sounded like:
      Do you want to be part of an unaccountable superstate which is ruled by Brussels, after fighting for your independence for dozens of years?

      The second vote (just voted on) forced onto the people sounded like:
      Do you want lots of free money from the other sucker 26 European countries to prop-up your now basket case economy, and so save lots more jobs? You'll still be in the unaccountable superstate, but look, we're giving you all this money to buy your vote.

      --
      Take Nobody's Word For It.
    47. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by sjames · · Score: 1

      People expect that a politician who is currently proposing to change the law of the land will have ALREADY consulted with domain experts and so will now know the answers, particularly when they are the ones that brought it up. If they claim we must do X so that Y will not happen again, they'd BETTER know at least enough about Y to conclude that X would help. If not, they're just spouting junk to back up their probably unsupportable initiative. That makes them either incompetent or liars.

      In other words, it's not acceptable for them to confidently claim to know enough about a situation that they are sure a particular piece of legislation would have helped and then turn out to be incorrect in the basic facts of the matter. At best, such a condition means they are more or less a random law generator and at worst means they have a hidden agenda that they believe the people (who they supposedly represent) would object to if they knew.

      OTOH, if they say we must do X to avoid Y and someone else asks if it will also help Z, THEN they might be reasonably be expected to need to consult with others first.

    48. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Nevertheless, if they are stuck in a situation where they must deliver SOMETHING, they could deliver the legal equivalent of a placebo rather than damaging the threads of society. Just title the law appropriately and make it a dense legal text that adds up to a no-op.

      For example in this case, he could have written a law that says the police may ask for a voluntary disclosure of the information without a warrent so long as they make clear they have no warrant. Yes, that's been true forever anyway, but the id10ts that demand he do SOMETHING don't know that!

    49. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by l33t+gambler · · Score: 1

      I dont' know about Canada or USA, but here in Norway, if a politician is caught lying or cheating on the tax or other bad things, they will get a lot of negative press. So much press that we have recently had two politicians resign in the last year, and others, like Thorbjørn Jagland and Kjell Magne Bondevik, going to hospital. Psychological stress they called it. Does this happen in other countries?

      --
      Teasing the nobles, and rightfully so!
    50. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>The guy either lied or he's incompetent. Either way, fire the bum!

      If we held fast to this theory, we'd have to fire the entire Parliament, since they don't even bother to read the legislation placed in front of them.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    51. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      "Tyranny by the majority" is the phrase you're looking for. It's why Democracy does not work - it results in the minority being trampled underfoot. Just talk to an American citizen from the 1940s who was unfortunate enough to have a parent from Japan.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    52. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by CokeBear · · Score: 1

      The majority of Canadians oppose the Conservatives. It is an unfortunate bug in our system of government that the centre-left and left-wing parties that together represents well over 60% of Canadians are in opposition at the moment.

      --
      Reality has a liberal bias
    53. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      If we held fast to this theory, we'd have to fire the entire Parliament, since they don't even bother to read the legislation placed in front of them.

      I'm in! Saw that back during the NAFTA debate - went to Ottawa to argue against the mandatory natural resources sharing limits, couldn't find a single MP who had read ANY of the legislation. bunch of morons. They went by the title alone. Maybe we should push for a "Give the MPS double pay" bill, and in the text make it a 50% pay CUT - they'd never read it.

    54. Re:STOP THE PRESSES! by Jerry+Rivers · · Score: 1

      A "bug" in the system? Mm ok.

      --
      The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
  3. Lips by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An old but all too often true observation:

    How do you tell if a politician is lying?

    His lips are moving.

    1. Re:Lips by Petrushka · · Score: 4, Informative

      His lips are moving.

      Sure. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lynch them when you catch them at it.

    2. Re:Lips by DreamerFi · · Score: 1

      So you say only ventriloquists should enter politics?

    3. Re:Lips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lynch them when you catch them at it.

      I'm with you on that. I much prefer stoning.

    4. Re:Lips by barberousse · · Score: 1

      There's a French variation on this one. The word parliament (parlement in French) is self-explanatory: parle - ment.

  4. Tory cabinet minister lies by jhylkema · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And in a related story, the sun rose this morning, in the East specifically.

    1. Re:Tory cabinet minister lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that this time, someone went to the trouble to get up early enough to catch the sun in the act. Now we KNOW that the sun rose in the East and that's reason enough to throw it out and get another sun in its place.

  5. Of course it is a lie... by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tyranny-loving politicians always try to scare the shit out of you to make it seem like they have no choice but to take your freedoms away. And it is always something horrible, like kidnapping or child rape. That way, if you don't give them what they want, then *you* must be responsible for their kidnapping/rape/death since you stood by and didn't let them do anything.

    --
    Similar to the upcoming US election results
    1. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Tyranny-loving politicians always try to scare the shit out of you to make it seem like they have no choice but to take your freedoms away. And it is always something horrible, like kidnapping or child rape. That way, if you don't give them what they want, then *you* must be responsible for their kidnapping/rape/death since you stood by and didn't let them do anything.

      That's right - and we saw it again last week. Somehow it's OUR fault that Roman Polanski avoided justice all these decades. "We", the peons, don't "get it".

      Fortunately, the power of the Internet is able to route around the brain-damaged "celebrity types" who signed that stupid petition expressing outrage that a pedophile should actually be arrested. counter-petition

      Maybe we need to charge public officials with corruption or fraud when they try to lie so blatantly. "That statement is no longer operative" is just one more fuddle duddle.

    2. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, he molested a child. Yes, he's a rapist.. But no, he's not a pedophile. He was absolutely convinced she was 17 (which is what the girl's mother told him (she should face charges too for effectively pimping her own daughter), which was the age of consent at the time in California.

    3. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Think about the CHILDREN! Won't somebody PLEEEEEEASE think about the CHILDREN!!!

    4. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd rather be responsible for the death of a single person than for the death of the liberty of everyone.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He was absolutely convinced she was 17 (which is what the girl's mother told him

      An out-and-out LIE. He admitted during the hearing for the plea bargain that he KNEW she was 13. The mother also testified under oath at the grand jury that she had told him she was 13, because she was surprised that he wanted a model that old - most kid models are younger.

      He's a pedophile. Cunnilingus, vaginal, and anal sex, after doping her up. That's not just "a momentary weakness", as he's tried to argue. He was prescribed 150mg qualudes, but the one he gave her was 500mg, and he tried to dispose of another 500mg when he was arrested - probably part of his "date kit."

      That his films aren't worth watching is just a bonus.

    6. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually, it's worse than that. They pass laws because that's their metric for success. They don't want to take your freedoms away, it's just a byproduct of them passing new laws which they feel required to do.

    7. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Here's what Samantha Gailey's testimony says:

        That, a couple years before, she'd taken part of a Qaalude and that the pill Polanski had was a Rorer 714, broken into 3 pieces.

        http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib2.html
        http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib3.html

      According to the scant info I can find, a Rorer 714 is a 300mg pill not 500mg as you claim and she only took part of one.

      She admitted to having taking Qaaludes once before, and having being drunk before although this was the first time she taken alcohol and Qaaludes together.
      He took severe advantage of her and I wonder what he was thinking since there were people who knew he was photograhing her.

      The link below, a transcript of his plea hearing, says that he admitted to knowing she was 13, although it also says that, before answering,
      he consulted twice with his lawyer.
      http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea10.html

      However, looking at a picture that is supposed to be one of Samantha in 1977, I can't see how he could think she was 17 so he must have known.

      Samantha's lawyer urged the judge to accept the plea: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea17.html

      France rejected the US request for an extradition back then but the States could also have requested he be tried in France. Apparently, this request was never made.

      Roman is clearly and fault and he's never denied this but this would never have dragged on if the deal, with which he was complying, had been honored. Also, he's never been accused by anyone else so, pedophile or not, he's not a serial rapist and he was cleared by psychiatric evaluation ( hardly foolproof, I know ) of being a pathological sex offender.

      So, if his (sole) victim has not only forgiven him but has been campaiging for 12 years to let the matter drop, what is the problem?
       

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    8. Re:Of course it is a lie... by epine · · Score: 1

      This is somewhat OT, but I think Polansky came morally unglued Abu Ghraib style. He lived through more than one R-rated horror show, and somewhere along the way someone forgot to inform him about the greater moral code. I'm with Zimbardo about AG: most of the fault lies with those who created the environment. What Polansky did was done with enough deliberation that he certainly deserved some jail time, but not 100 years as the judge is reported to have commented. 100 years would be the appropriate sentence for his second offence. For the first offence: you've had a bit of a rough go, now stand up, take your punishment for your despicable conduct, and consider yourself informed.

      While I was mildly underwhelmed by "The Pianist", I didn't consider it a bad movie. It was a worthy attempt that didn't quite make it. I didn't regret the time I spent watching it, nor did I take a lot away from it that hadn't been done as well or better in other films. I preferred the lead-up-to-the-war, Cabaret ethos of the first act to the silent, enduring protagonist. Don't know why, just prefer my protagonists mouthy. Like they hired a script writer, or something. Quest for Fire has a better script than half the subtitle-friendly movies made these days.

      Responding to another post, it's a bit of stretch to compare Harper to Cheney. I was reading an op-ed the other day about how Obama's summer plunge in the polls was a traditional American populist backlash against an educated and intelligent president. Many Americans instinctively regard intelligence in a politician as a sure makings of a crook. It's possibly a good theory, but I didn't spot any evidence that W's speech impediment in any way slowed the damage.

      Harper's not a dumb man, and I probably don't agree with much of his vision for Canada, but I don't think he aspires to the creation of a fascist state. He possesses a measure of the petty ideological corruption common in right-thinking politicians of any stripe. Not so different than the social delusions of Polansky or famous NHL quarterbacks: a little bit above, beyond, or outside the law. OTOH, the most naive political position of all is to think the greater electorate is going to reward a politician for doing a good job, so we get what we pay for.

      Case in point: Canada, probably as much by luck as good management, had one of the few banking systems to emerge relatively unscathed from the credit crisis. Has any Canadian lined up to pay more taxes in exchange for this excellent governance? Fat chance. We'd be happier if they had lost $100b (that's Canadian for $1t) so we could pillory them as models of what we deplore. Despising politicians is a nation building experience.

      I don't think it's the politicians who are so fond of the police state as those who finance their election. The fat cats feel vulnerable to a free society, as well they should. Many times politicians seem to be yanking away freedoms that we in fact never possessed. Since WWII the Americans have practiced de facto spying against their own citizens. In the W era (he didn't quite earn himself the knighthood WWIII), they endeavoured to ratify what they had always done. Not that it would be so much different, but a little more convenient, with fewer safeguards, (and a little less internal laundry passing through the British).

      At some point fewer safeguards spells catastrophe, so on principle we should oppose everything. I knew I would say something !OT eventually.

    9. Re:Of course it is a lie... by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      I swear to God, Shiva, The Flying Spaghetti Monster and all the other silly things, that I missed the first 'y' in that post. It was funny, but made not sense. Judge for yourself:

      Tranny-loving politicians always try to scare the shit out of you to make it seem like they have no choice but to take your freedoms away. And it is always something horrible, like kidnapping or child rape. That way, if you don't give them what they want, then *you* must be responsible for their kidnapping/rape/death since you stood by and didn't let them do anything.

    10. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather be responsible for the death of a single person than for the death of the liberty of everyone.

      Liberty can be reclaimed. Not so for a life.

    11. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      Liberty can be reclaimed. Not so for a life.

      The only problem with that idea is that reclaiming liberty costs many lives. So if you go down that path, you aren't being very efficient.

    12. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      This would also not have dragged on if he hadn't fled the country. In doing so, he broke the plea bargain and should have to face trial on the original charges.

      Yes, he consulted twice with his lawyer before admitting that he knew she was 13. This shows (1) that he knew what he was admitting was a serious crime, and (2) that he was informed of his legal rights.

      Also, the fact that the victims' lawyer argued for the plea bargain is a sign of the times - his argument was that she would be forever stigmatized - made a victim a second time over. Today, we don't see rape victims as "damaged goods", so no, today the victims' lawyer would argue for jail time and against a plea bargain to lesser charges when there's ample evidence (semen, etc).

      Let him stand trial on the original charges, since he didn't fulfill his end of the plea bargain. What could be more fair?

    13. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Case in point: Canada, probably as much by luck as good management, had one of the few banking systems to emerge relatively unscathed from the credit crisis. Has any Canadian lined up to pay more taxes in exchange for this excellent governance? Fat chance. We'd be happier if they had lost $100b (that's Canadian for $1t) so we could pillory them as models of what we deplore. Despising politicians is a nation building experience.

      Well, we've been in favour of balanced budgets for a couple of decades now, even though we know it means higher taxes now (to avoid even higer taxes in the future). We kept re-electing the liberals because of the balanced budgets, and we are keeping the Tories on a short leash because we don't like budget deficits ... we understand that we've "kept the powder dry", and that there's a time to use it - and that time is now, but we don't want to return to institutionalized big deficits.

      It might seem we're lucky, but being more prudent than our American counterparts has something to do with it.

    14. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "What could be more fair?" How about putting the interest of the victim first?
      I find considerable irony in this case - it was the murder of Polanksi's wife and the efforts of his mother-in-law that led to the practice of the victim impact statement.

      Now, the victim of Polanski's own crime is being ignored.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    15. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      We've learned that the best long-term interests of the victim don't necessarily coincide with what the victim wants.

      Many times, the victim just wants everything dropped to "make it all go away."

      Over time, this gets internalized. Then everything becomes a rationalization to continue to maintain that "don't have to deal with it".

      We now know that the best thing for victims or abuse is for the perps to be dealt with openly. A few decades of this has led to the destigmatization of the victims in rapes, which has led to more rape cases being reported rather than the victim shutting up because they're afraid everyone will see them as "damaged goods".

      Just take a look at how many wives refuse to testify against abusive husbands. This led to the law being changed in many places so that the cops don't need the woman to file the complaint.

      Then there's the other issue - he avoided justice for almost 40 years. Do we reward that with a lesser sentence? That just teaches that running is the smart thing to do. That he has to face this now is his own fault - first, for doing the crime, second, for trying to avoid doing the time ... if he hadn't run, this would have been behind him. Of course, his career would have been in ruins, but that just means some crappy pretentious shit wouldn't have mede it onto celluloid, which is another bonus. And we wouldn't be listening to Whoopi going "It wasn't rape-rape" (she obviously never read the transcripts of the grand jury hearing or the plea bargain - it was rape, Polanski admitted he knew she was only 13 when he sodomized her after vaginal sex, etc.)

    16. Re:Of course it is a lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, his Macbeth is pretty good. He's still long overdue for jail though, yes.

    17. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      It wasn't being dropped and Samantha had already given testimony in a hearing but the object of the plea was to balance punishing Polanski and doing right by Samantha.
      Even today, we don't deal completely openly with rape when a minor is involved. And yes, the "damaged goods" label still sticks, unfortunately, and this is especially true for many minorities.

      The stigma attached to rape is far from dead.

      Allowing cops to press charges without the victim's cooperation is largely is good thing but that really doesn't compare to the rape case in question.
      Guilt was already admitted, the psychiatric evaluation was already completed, the deal had already been accepted by all parties - and then the judge made a unilateral decision that may have involved interference from the prosecutor.

      It seems the person with clean hands was Samantha who's understandly reluctant to have to go through this again after 31 ( not 40, by the way) years.
      Now Samantha has children of her own to worry about - I hope they aren't unpopular adolescents.
      Based on the cruelty I've seen and experienced growing up, I'm sure they've already heard jeers about "Your mother likes it up the ass" or some such.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    18. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Even today, we don't deal completely openly with rape when a minor is involved. And yes, the "damaged goods" label still sticks, unfortunately, and this is especially true for many minorities.

      I don't know where you're from, but up here we're pretty open about it. The "damaged goods" label no longer exists, because the victims ignore the court protection of their identities and speak out against their aggressors. Look at Davie Hilton's daughters ... they went on TV to talk about how their father sexually abused them. Nobody thinks badly of them - to the contrary, here they're seen as strong role models.

      We now know that dealing openly with this sort of thing is the best thing for the victim. It shows that society not only doesn't consider them as "damaged goods", but that they have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It's when we allow perps to get off easy "in the best interests of the child" that we fuck the kids over, by acting like its something they should be ashamed of. Nice way of making someone a victim a second time.

      Society CAN change, but it requires that we deal with this sort of thing openly, not like a bunch of Victorian-age closed-minded prudes.

      As for the judge - the judge has the right (and he even informed Polanski at the hearing before Polanski admitted guilt) that he was not obliged to accept the plea bargain, that he would review it first, as well as the submissions by both sides, but he also wasn't bound by law to accept the position of either side; judges are free in such cases to give as much or as little consideration to either sides' arguments as they feel the specifics of the case merit. Just because neither side asked for jail time doesn't mean the judge can't throw him in jail. Even joint recommendations can be tossed in the trash. Theres' nothing wrong about a judge deciding that a defendant deserves jail time even if both sides are asking otherwise.

      Part of this is to prevent corruption (collusion or a "favour" or any sort of quid pro quo between the DA's office and the defendants' lawyers).

    19. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I'm from "up here" too.
        When Dave Hilton was first arrested, it was only said that it was on suspicion of child molestation - it was never stated that it was his daughters, even after he was sentenced.

      That fact only came to light when the girls, in their twenties, decided to write a book about it.

      At that point, Hilton had been back on the street for several years.

      Going back to Judge Rittenbaud, it's not that he refused to accept the plea bargain, which as you rightly pointed out, he's not bound to.

      It's that he had accepted and then reversed himself. And, it later came to light that there might have been prosecutorial interference, although now Wells is saying that he was lying then but not lying now.
      I wonder if he's ever read the perjury statutes.

      I take issue with the "we know what's best for you" attitude - it's just a retread of the old parochial attitude.

      Rape takes away the victims' power and self-esteem; forced exposure takes away their freedom.

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    20. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Correction - he was still in jail when his daughters published the book.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    21. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Everyone in Quebec knew the same week he was arrested that it was his daughters. Anyone familiar with the laws, the courts' restrictions, and with the family situation, quickly put 2 and 2 together.

      Some of the smaller french print media quickly published the fact that it was his daughters (without naming them) before the judge had a chance to issue the gag order - one of my co-workers had a copy of the article, and couldn't believe it - he was a big Hilton fan. The media get away with this from time to time because they don't publish the actual names (and by saying "one or more of his daughters", without identifying how manydaughters he had, they haven't identified the victims with certainty from only the information in the article... absent a gag order and absent a comlaint from the family, they're not going to get a spanking from the judge, who seem to understand the Streisand Effect).

      It's the same thing as the Guy Laliberte ex-girlfriend lawsuit. Everyone knows that the Quebec billionaire who was being sued for $50 million in "palimony" was the Cirque de Soleil founder, despite the gag order. We know how to read between the lines, even if a quick net search hadn't turned up enough external evidence.

      As for the plea bargain, sure ex parte communications made by either the prosecution or the defense are no-nos. However, the individual who made the inappropriate contact was not the prosecutor; yes, technically, since Wells was an attorney for the State, he was working for one of the parties, but this could also be said of anyone, even a parks groundskeeper. The attorney of record wasn't involved. The judge is dead. The simplest thing to do is let the plea bargain stand and hold a hearing "en blanc" for what the punishment should be ...

      ... and THAT is not something Polanski would want, because he will definitely get jail time.

      This is not something that will get the case dismissed - not even in a badly written TV show. Judges have to deal with this from time to time ... and when they realize someone's trying to talk about a case with them outside the courtroom, they'll quickly say "Stop. You really can't be talking to me about this. I haven't listened to anything you've said. Now leave - before I change my mind."

      Was showing the judge pictures of Polanski partying it up with other under-age kids wrong? Yes. Is it possible that the judge would have changed his mind about the plea bargain even without seeing the pictures? Yes - if you've ever talked to a judge about cases they've tried, they'll tell you that some cases stay in their minds outside the courtroom, at home, etc. This is one of those cases that a judge could very well have had "buyer's remorse" about accepting the plea bargain, so we cant say for certain whether the pics made a difference. Call it 50-50.

      Polanski, if he hadn't fled, would have had a legal remedy. When you run, you can't complain at the hearing you skipped that the sentence isn't right. Ultimately, it's his own actions - from the rape to the running - that are the problem, not the courts.

      Also:

      Rape takes away the victims' power and self-esteem; forced exposure takes away their freedom.

      Our continuing to treat it as something that should be hidden away just reinforces the low self-esteem and takes away their freedom to say "this happened to me and I want to be able to talk about it without shame or fear."

    22. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      OT - so, what part of "up here" are you from, eh?

      As you can guess, I'm in PoutineVille (actually, the West Island).

    23. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I've lived in various parts of Montreal, incl Pierrefonds and N.D.G, over the years but now live in T.O.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    24. Re:Of course it is a lie... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      So yu moved to Canada, eh?

      Back here, DDO is "almost" Toronto ... but with better food. Do the restaurants there still suck?

    25. Re:Of course it is a lie... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      They've made some decent progress, mostly for affordable Asian, especially Thai and sushi.
      Seem to have made some big strides in the veg/organic/raw arena, if you like that sort of thing.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  6. Re:Troll? by conureman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but dig how I invoked Godwin on a first post. Woot!

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  7. Impossible! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    People above the rank of "commoner" never lie. He must have been misquoted by the media, or, at worst, misspoken. Anybody who claims that he "lied" is only seeking to criminalize a legitimate policy dispute.

  8. back-door downloader lawsuits for mafiaa. by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Customer information without a warrant.. why does that sound familiar?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:back-door downloader lawsuits for mafiaa. by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      If you thought the mafiaa was scary, just imagine what the government can do with this.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
  9. Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it be he wants power for power's sake? Not to make the world better, but simply because he can.

  10. Canads's Reich Wing government ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last name of the minister's boss is Harper.

    Hitler :: Harper

    You do the math.

  11. Well, what do you know by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    Michael Geist did some digging and revealed this as a lie...

    Canada has a conservative government after all.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Well, what do you know by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Funny

      > Canada has a conservative government after all.

      It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world (and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative. There are no other possibilities).

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Well, what do you know by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      > Canada has a conservative government after all.

      It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world

      There is other evidence that the government is conservative, we don't need to rely on the fact that they lie to know that.

    3. Re:Well, what do you know by mevets · · Score: 1

      you misspelled shit; it is typically used with the prefix "little", as in "little shits". This is the semi-official moniker of a group of back-room schemers and front room puppets of the canadian neo-con group. It really is the "same old con" - transfer all the public assets to your buddies then sneak out the back door.

      Their first major success was hoisting a notoriously drunken jerk to the position of Premier. There are lots of things said of politicians, but Canada does follow the British tradition of titling these people as "Right Honourable"; a reference to the greater responsibility they hold. Even the most prominent have been reduced to parroting the "little shits" press releases.

      Van Loan has been associated with the "little shits" for quite some time.

    4. Re:Well, what do you know by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      It must, because no liberal has ever told a lie in the entire history of the world (and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative. There are no other possibilities).

      Well, in Australia, the Liberals _are_ the conservatives...

    5. Re:Well, what do you know by wizardforce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most governments tend to lean "liberal" economically and "conservative" socially so authoritarian all around.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    6. Re:Well, what do you know by Adambomb · · Score: 2, Informative

      and, of course, everyone everywhere is either a liberal or a (spit) conservative

      Note for those unaware: It's not just a random label thrown about in canada to polarize issues, the current government is headed by the Progressive Conservative party. And the current opposition are the Liberals.

      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
    7. Re:Well, what do you know by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Progressive Conservative party

      Wait, what?

    8. Re:Well, what do you know by germansausage · · Score: 1

      And in British Columbia the Liberals are the conservatives. It's a bit complicated here, we are permitted to have more than 2 political parties.

    9. Re:Well, what do you know by jbr439 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not quite: a few years ago, the Progessive Conservative Party merged with the Reform Party to form the Consersative Party.

    10. Re:Well, what do you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHAHAHA! Good one, if only the mods...

    11. Re:Well, what do you know by WoodenTable · · Score: 1

      Except here in Canada, where most governments lean "liberal" socially, and... well, at the moment economic policy can only be described as "house on fire". To be perfectly honest, parliamentary debates might be improved a bit if firefighters would smash down the doors and haul everyone outside once in a while.

    12. Re:Well, what do you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap! I just checked those websites. Looks like bigger wankers than the republicans and the democrats.
      We are SO fucked.

    13. Re:Well, what do you know by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      when I speak of "liberal" and "conservative" I mean it in relative terms for each country- a government that becomes more economically authoritarian is economically "liberal" and one that becomes more authoritarian on social issues is socially "conservative." Since Canada is tending toward more control over economic and some social matters, it too follows the trend.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    14. Re:Well, what do you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful or some Liberal toady will mod you down for stating the obvious.

  12. PVL by conureman · · Score: 1

    Check out his webpage petervanloan.com He's an environmentalist! (He got funding for water meters) He's gotten funding for Recreation! (I think they're paving the parking lot) Yep, I better quit picking on this guy.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  13. Re:Troll? by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 0

    Yeah, but dig how I invoked Godwin on a first post. Woot!

    ^_^ Indeed! But then, what's a good slashdot thread without a Hitler reference?

    --
    Similar to the upcoming US election results
  14. Oh all right by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Funny

    Fap Fap Fap... what this isn't 4chan?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  15. SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by ChiRaven · · Score: 1

    And he never bothered to do something basic like check her drivers license or something? I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

    1. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

      Gee

    2. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Informative
      The poster who wrote that Polanski thought she was "old enough" was wrong - you can read the transcripts of the plea bargain at The Smoking Gun.
      1. Polanski admitted under oath during the plea bargain that he knew PRIOR to raping her that she was only 13. This was with his lawyers' advice and consent, and after being told by the judge what the legal implications were.
      2. The mother testified at the grand jury, also under oath, that she had told Polanski that her daughter was 13; she was surprised that Polanski wanted her to do some child modeling because photogs usually want models who are even younger.

      So we have both the testmony from the perp, after waiving his right to avoid self-incrimination as part of the guilty plea bargain, and a second witness, that he knew she was 13. What more proof does ANYONE want?

    3. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by conureman · · Score: 1

      In the olden days, when I was 25 years old, I had a date with a girl I thought looked a bit young. Carl, the doorman at the Keystone Berkeley, was a friend of mine, so I asked him to check her ID when we got there (being with me would have probably gotten her in without a check otherwise). She was actually 25 so things worked out okay.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    4. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story, bro.

    5. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first, and I'm not even remotely interested in sleeping with them (or they with me, for that matter).

      Having conversations with people, of any age, isn't a crime. HTH

    6. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by ChiRaven · · Score: 1

      No, it's not a crime for an older person to talk to a person underage, but I only do it with people who might be underage with their parents or guardians present. I'm probably paranoid, but there are too many ways to get in trouble these days doing it any other way. It's a sad commentary on the state of our society.

    7. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by ChiRaven · · Score: 1

      Read again, stressing the word "independently". If it's in the course of their employment, I do not consider that "independent". (&#%@$& Trolls) { Searches in vain for someone with Mod points. }

    8. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first..."

      Just goes to show you don't have to be a politician to be a liar.

    9. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 17 ... by ChiRaven · · Score: 1

      "I don't ever TALK to young women under about 25 independently without checking ID's first..."

      Just goes to show you don't have to be a politician to be a liar.

      Two bad assumptions there, Mr. Coward.

  16. Oblig. by yamfry · · Score: 1

    Contact info here.

  17. For Canadians by beckett · · Score: 3, Informative

    put down the cardiac poutine and fire a few e-mails off, guys.

    here are email links to Federal Minister for Public Safety Peter Van Loan Opposition critics to : Federal Liberal Critic Mark Holland Public Safety and National Security NDP Don Davies

    1. Re:For Canadians by KraftDinner · · Score: 2

      I'll eat my poutine while I e-mail thank you very much.

    2. Re:For Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      although this probably has a grain of truth in the anonymous writers tale but to call the government statement a lie is totally an erroneous statement but smacks of political bias
      and cowardly tendencies
      Stan C

  18. This will kill the conservatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This kind of stupid crap will kill the conservatives. The Liberals, the NDP and the BLOC will get this killed. I GUARANTEE IT! They had better stop now. We are not going to put up with this crap! The Americans can be bitched like this, but not us. They claim to have power by owning a gun, but really the big corporations rule there. Here, no guns but the **AA will get a really rude hard slap if they try to pressure the politicians into this crap! If the conservatives have even half a clue, this should STOP NOW! Conservatives wanting this will find themselves in a minority opposition with one seat less than the NDP.

  19. Internet Town Hall meeting Oct. 26 Halifax by farbles · · Score: 5, Informative

    Concerns over this and other issues such as copyright laws, digital rights management issues, the Digital Divide, and privacy have prompted the Chebucto Community Net and the Dalhousie Student Union to hold a public Internet Town Hall meeting in Halifax, Nova Scotia on Monday, October 26th at 7 pm in the McInnes Room of the Dalhousie Student Union Building. I saw the notice on their website here: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Current/CourtesyCCN.shtml

    Their main speaker is Laura Murray, co-author of Canadian Copyright: A Citizenâ(TM)s Guide, and they've got speakers on the other issues too. They're calling it "Who's Shaping Your Digital Future?" and it's noteworthy for being the only meeting of its kind in the Atlantic Provinces. I don't know why they're not promoting this better, maybe they don't have the money or something, but I know I'll be going to it.

    I wonder if anyone from the government or the mainstream media will be showing up.

    1. Re:Internet Town Hall meeting Oct. 26 Halifax by farbles · · Score: 1

      Whoa, some crazy apostrophe action there. Sorry about that.

  20. Stalin and Hitler planned that all along. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Hitler, a jew just like Stalin, feigned his death and went with several prominent national socialists (aka "nazi") to live out their lives around Brazil, Venezuela, and a number of other countries neighboring those. Meanwhile, the less-prominent nazi scientists were imported through Department of Agriculture if not U.S. Army and NASA through Project Paperclip to CONTINUE research if only to disclose the atrocities committed upon non-Germanic prisoners of war and civilians.

    You'll find out that every 2-party system is a joke, because mere idealogical opponents and best-friends when behind the curtain. In the case of World War 2, the alleged defamations against jews was done by a jew known as Alois Michelgruber who renamed to Adolph Hitler to confuse the press. Even Joseph Stalin is a made-up name chosen by a jew to conceal his identity.

    A fellow over on Pennsylvania soil, Eric-John, wrote a book and sells only 200 of them every 4 years, titled "Vatican Assassins" and he's done all the research to show where all the jewry comes from. Hardcover version costs too much (US 300) so I pirated the digital version.

    1. Re:Stalin and Hitler planned that all along. by TeXMaster · · Score: 1

      Or just http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVPkK3e1Q14&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=D2FF18CFF7716816

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    2. Re:Stalin and Hitler planned that all along. by HolyCrapSCOsux · · Score: 1

      You'll find out that every 2-party system is a joke

      I propose an new 5 party system. any one of these parties may not have a more than 60% of the vote at any time. Any votes for the party over 60% will be automatically divieded up amongst the other parties. The terms Republican and Domcrat will be disallowed and all incumbents will be randomly reassigned to the new parties, hereby desingated Party 0, Party1, Party2, Party3, Party4. In the event that this initial redistribution does not make a perfect balance, those that did not get assinged a party will be fired.

      Voting will resume as normal following this adjustment period.

      Thank you for your support.

      --
      0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
  21. And this comes from Canada by hackerman · · Score: 1

    at least we third world countries have internet privacy. We had to have something better than you.

    1. Re:And this comes from Canada by herojig · · Score: 1

      Interesting that. I was wondering about this the other day, why do "under developed" countries like Nepal have none of the problems discussed so much here on /.. Internet privacy is not an issue. Pedophilia is not an issue. Hmmm...

      --
      I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
  22. I'm Shocked, Shocked... by jayveekay · · Score: 1

    To find out that someone thinks a politician lying is newsworthy.

    Now a politician being open and honest about something, that would be news!

  23. Re: 99.999% Lies from US Executive Office et al by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Laughed my ares off at the sight of Obama [the symbol formerly known as Barry] failing in Denmark.

    The IOC can see a fraud, and state that a fraud is a fraud, irrespective if the fraud is the sitting President of the United States of America [who never should have been born].

  24. Canadian Conservatives by ppanon · · Score: 1

    Our Canadian Conservatives - trying to add blue to the red and white. I never thought I would look back on the Mulroney years as the good old days.

    --
    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  25. Re:SURE He THOUGHT She Was 13 ... by aqk · · Score: 0

    Thank goodness!
    Now I know!
    YOU are the guy holding up the line when I am trying to buy a Fatburger at McDoughnalds, or trying to get my stuff thru the checkout line at the supermarket.
    But it's a smart move- you get to ogle their tits while the poor girl checks for her ID.

    O my dear pudding-puller- Do you do this also at Hooters? Com'n now.. 'fess up. we've seen you there!
    Well at least in my case I am not interested in "sleeping" with them; for myself, I have much more interesting projects for them, you slimy hypocrite.

    --

    .
    - aqk
    F U /. illiterates.
  26. Peace and Good Government is Canada's Motto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Warrantless searches are bullshit and Ottawa knows it.

    First the Human rights BS legislation gets knocked down, and now the dogs are back at the vomit, trying to push this crap through again.

    What is so pressing that they must use LIES to push through a piece of legislation that would get struck down if the rule of law still applied?

    You lawyers all know this wrong!

    I am sure CSIS (Canada's Spy Agency) along with the NSA is deep packet everything already, looking for terrorists and stuff, so Canada is safe. T

    So why can't civilian authorities proceed properly, with proper warrants and legal procedures on the little stuff like one single pedophile. The pictures have been taken. It is not like it is a crime in progress.

    Geez Mr. Judge, we are looking for this house address of this IP address because look at these nasty pictures he was sending about.

    Any judge is going to give them a search warrant.

    I take the privacy of my clients seriously. No warrant. No data.

    I don't care what 'law' you think you passed.

    Is that all that's left for me? To met these bastards at the door with force? Oh Canada. Tell me it is not so. Please come to your senses.

  27. Re:More than one Reichstag fire, USDA does this al by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'a convenient lie'

  28. Well its seems obvious that survelance is needed. by 3seas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    over some government officials....

  29. Re:Mods on Crack2day. Got your back. Sources here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    paranoid much?

  30. Big Content's Fingerprints by javacowboy · · Score: 1

    There's really only one reason for this legislation. The RIAA and MPAA want to start going after filesharers like they tried to in the U.S. with AT&T before the courts didn't let them.

    And, oh yeah, they don't particularly care about collateral damage from false positives. That's the part that's really scary. If my IP address gets accidentally linked with somebody who was torrenting a movie ten minutes ago, suddenly, I'll be forced to pay legal fees to defend myself.

    Unbelievable!

    --
    This space left intentionally blank.
  31. As is often the case with these types of stories by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

    So what? Is he going to not get re-elected? Go to prison? Get a slap on the wrist? Nothing will happen to him and he'll most likely do it again. Most people won't understand what he did. All they'll care about is a bad guy was caught and someone said it was because of the Innerwebs were being closely watched, therefore, we need to keep watching for bad guys. I'm not meaning this to be a troll or flamebait post, but these stories generally accomplish only one thing: They piss off /. readers. I know it had that effect on me.

    --
    Bark less. Wag more.
  32. Premature Aging by conureman · · Score: 1

    An interesting phenomena is the apparent aging of our presidents. After a few years in the office, they really start to look thrashed. Even G.W. with his water-off-a-ducks-back disregard for consequences got a little beat up there towards the end, when the shit started piling up around him.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  33. Hey Yuckinator, this one's 4U by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You stated this, here, verbatim:

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1368439&cid=29425013

    ----

    "Alex P. Keaton is an MCSE? Is there anything that guy can't do?"

    ----

    I am just a human being, & so are you!

    (However, because we are? Well - imo @ least? We're amazing creatures, when properly motivated, & have the time to do a thing right!)

    AND, no - I can't do "everything"... sorry on that note!

    (However, I have managed a few nice things in this lifetime (depending on who's looking that is)... & so can you, & I am sure you have as well, because you're a human being!)

    APK

    P.S.=> I've been meaning to "get back to you" on that one, & there 'tis! I am not sure if you were being sarcastic, but I didn't take it thus, so... there ya are! apk