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Hidden Fees Discovered For "Free" Windows 7 Upgrade
An anonymous reader writes 'Thousands of recent computer purchasers who are expecting to receive free upgrades to Windows 7 when it is released on October 22 may be surprised to learn that some big computer makers are quietly tacking on hefty processing fees as high as $17 to mail out those disks to some buyers.' How about they process $0 to click a link and download a file?
The RTM of windows 7 has been out for 2 months now? 3 by the street date of Oct 22nd.
This time is of course used for manufacturing, marketing, etc.
Meanwhile they should be offering fully updated ISOs directly on the windows site for everyone and anyone to download - the OS itself contains its own validation so there's no harm in letting anyone download it. Then you buy your key digitally with a steam-like system, this would even benefit Microsoft by serving as a key registration system.
*.sig
Similar to paying $9.99 for going from Leopard to Snow Leopard (if you bought a Mac with Leopard recently).
It's annoying but it's not hefty.
And in this (Win7) case the price seems to be a manufacturer thing and not a MS thing. Ranging from $0 to $17.
When I mentioned this to my office colleague, he said $17 was a quite a bargain if that's what it takes to it makes Vista go away.
Because of course the infrastructure to serve 3gb of data to each customer doesn't cost anything?
Not that I'm defending the practice of charging for a free upgrade, free upgrades should be free, postage free too, but suggesting doing it digitally means there would be no cost is ignorant. In the UK with the extortionate costs of bandwidth I think posting a CD first class via Royal Mail might in fact be cheaper.
A lot of people would just want to stick the Windows 7 DVD they receieve through the post in the drive too. Downloading an ISO and knowing how to burn an ISO rather than copying the file across like they do usually when writing CDs (if they've ever even written one before) would be too much for some users.
I am sure I read when they announced that the free upgrade doesn't include shipping. Also the Vista upgrade, I got with my laptop didn't include shipping. Maybe the manufacturers and sales reps aren't being clear, I don't know. I do know when I was talking to my sister about free upgrade when she purchased her new computer, I definitely told her she would need to pay the shipping.
i never quite understood how fees can be hidden... do they sneak into your apartment and take the CA$H hidden by the XYZ fairy under your pillow, or something?
Generally if it wasn't mentioned in the literature provided or it was only in the small print, then its is considered 'hidden' since you had to look for it to find out.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Not the dreaded upgrad fees! Those sound expensive!
I don't get in today's age of informed individuals how people still think digital distribution is "free". Maybe your personal site is dirt cheap, but larger companies that use a ton of bandwidth pay a fortune for that bandwidth and the management and guarantees that go along with it. I work for a small company that doesn't have a large website and we do nothing like digital dist, but our bandwidth still costs over $2m per year. I agree downloads vs sending disks would be cheaper, but saying it would be free is just plain ignorant.
Open source projects can charge reasonable fees for distribution of source code. Why are these any different?
If the fee was stated *plainly* and the customer factored the fee into their decision, then fine. If instead businesses understand that people won't buy a new computer because they don't want Vista, and they entice customers with a FREE upgrade to Windows 7, then it HAD BETTER BE FREE. It doesn't matter if $17 doesn't break the bank. Even $0.01 is too much if I was coerced into a buying decision by a vendor who was withholding information. DISTRIBUTION COST IS IRRELEVANT. It doesn't matter if it costs money for the CD or online downloads. If they knew that it would cost money for distribution they weren't willing to eat, THEN YOU STATE UP FRONT THAT IT WON'T BE FREE. Otherwise, you keep your promise to the consumer. PERIOD. They simply have no excuses here. I don't understand why people don't understand this.
Time to get the torrents ready....
While not the free promised, the terms hefty and $17 haven't been used together since the 1930s.
Truth, Just Us, And Hatred For All Mankind!
Or if the retailer says "Qualifies for a FREE upgrade to Windows 7", that's a hidden fee. The cost is $0 and if you have sales tax, the tax is on $0 (as opposed to a gift like on The Price Is Right where the receiving party is responsible for sales taxes and/or licenses).
I recently purchased an Acer laptop (hey, it was cheap and I'm just using it for surfing). Since I didn't choose overnight shipping, it was free. I may not get the DVD for a week or so. But, I'm not in a hurry either. I think this really depends on the shipping you choose and the manufacturer you buy from.
They still might charge you a handling charge. If you look at this week's Staples flyer, they put their Vista PCs on clearance, with a free upgrade to Windows 7..... but then the fine print says you have to pay shipping and handling to get it. Great.
Staples is not an honest company. I recently bought some printer paper from them minus a $25 mail-in rebate. They never bothered to tell me that it's on a credit card and therefore I have to spend the money - I can't just cash it and put it in my savings like I originally planned. :-|
I hope Staples ends-up like Circuit City (bankrupt).
I hope Comcast ends-up like Baltimore Gas & Electric (controlled by the government).
I hope RIAA's building blows up.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
How to burn the ISO?
I burned three already. The wife's cat is charred and my fingers have bad blisters.
And I still cannot upgrade after three reboots!
Since the PC manufacturers are advertising the free Vista-to-7 upgrade, the CD you receive is probably custom-tailored to work with your machine and its installed drivers. So it's not really any more difficult than popping-in the Win7 Restore CD and waiting.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
But, yeah a download or something would be a neat idea, but then it would likely be hacked in like 2 seconds.
As opposed to any other software ever released by MS?
I am the lawn!
I think that exposes the truth of copyrights to consumers a bit too clearly for corporate comfort.
Windows has traditionally been about receiving the product. You go to the store, give them that ungodly sum that they charge, and then come home with your shiny box and DVD. Now, online distribution is coming up, and Microsoft likely will go that way, but allowing them access to the whole thing before buying a key puts the issue into the spotlight too much. They've already downloaded the system for free, and now they'd be paying several hundred dollars for a code to unlock it. At that point even the simplest minded consumer will put together that all they really paid for was that key and the other stuff costs really nothing (which has always been the case, but it's not been so obvious).
If Microsoft only allows a download after paying the fee then there's still some level of abstraction. IE, the consumer feels like they're buying at least a big file.
Just my take on the issue anyways.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
i can imagine all the calls to Dell. i burned the iso to a dvd and it still won't boot
Then they should provide an executable binary which upon execution upgrades. No need for an iso.
I am the lawn!
and it's not like they don't have the resources in place already. my company has an agreement with MS that allowed me to purchase - legaly - a copy of office 2007 enterprise for R$ 26.00 ( that's $ 15.00 american bucks), download an instalable .EXE and run it. it's now working under wine on my personal notebook.
at the company, for business use, we have access to ALL microsoft software products free. all available for download as instalable .MSI, .EXE or burnable .ISO
this handling fees, this is plain old greed IMHO.
one more way that shows how apple handles this much better. you can buy snow leopard upgrade for a few bucks, then install it on top of tiger. tiger users are not eligible for the cheap upgrade, only leopard users are. but apple didn't put any verification on the upgrade. they just trust tiger users will do the right thing and buy the full package. wanna bet it's paying off ?
What ? Me, worry ?
Not an honest company? Take it you didn't bother to actually read the rebate offer or the price tag which both make mention of it being a visa debit card? That has nothing to do with dishonesty but rather being too lazy to read what you are in essence agreeing to. Are rebate cards a crappy deal? Yes, just the same as rebates in general are.
Well, they do tend to be designed to increase surface area(without increasing tissue volume) and thus radiate more heat, so technically...
"Shipping and Handling" is a scam in whatever form it takes. This is especially true when those charges are excessive.
Yes - charging shipping to pass along a variable, customer dependent charge is outrageous!
Get back under your bridge.
Can't you just put $25 from your checking account in savings and use the credit card to buy groceries? I hate the MIR dance as much as anyone does, but you win if you get the rebate.
Looking at HP's press release (for example), it's not all that hidden.
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2009/090625xa.html/
The program will enable customers who purchase qualifying HP PCs to enjoy the benefits of a new Windows-based PC immediately and receive a free(1) upgrade to Windows 7 when it becomes available in October...
(1) Shipping and handling fees may apply depending on retailer/reseller.
This sig intentionally left blank.
You go to the store, give them that ungodly sum that they charge, and then come home with your shiny box and DVD.
Seriously, what is UNGODLY about what they charge for their product? You spend more in a MONTH on cable TV than what it costs to buy Vista Super Premium. And don't give me the "It's expensive because it doesn't work" BS. If it doesn't work, don't buy it.
Personally, I run one of each (Win,Mac,Ubuntu) at my house, and i have no problem with the cost i need to pay for Windows or mac. Different tools for different uses.
My user number is prime. Is yours?
That's actually how MS does its student offers, at least in the UK. They sell you a licence key for £30, disks for about £10 if you want them, and give you a link to a .iso file or an installer.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
You realize most people don't even know what an ISO is right? Microsoft is faced with the same situation our company is faced with right now releasing a large product to the internet and making it as less complicated as possible for the village idiots.
Yes, you're right, the manufacturing cost of a "Key" is miniscule. Guess what, it's just like the cost of building a car. You don't think it costs 20,000 dollars in materials and labor to build a car, do you? Aren't you completely indignant that you had to pay that much? The nerve of car companies covering design and R&D costs and they expect to cover the costs of marketing their product in the sales price!? Well, that's outrageous!
Every product has hidden costs embedded into the price. In Microsofts case, it's dev time and marketing, and yes, a profit too. If you don't think the dev time yielded a high enough quality product, or a product you're interested in, by all means, go buy a Mac or download *nix. But, just because it costs next to nothing to create "keys" doesn't mean there weren't some very real expenses in delivering this product that need to be recouped.
Both MS and Apple won't do it since it makes software retailers (dealers) obsolete. Not like they don't have bandwidth or technology to do it, Apple sells petabytes of content every week or so over the net.
In Apple case, they want their country distributors sell it, localized in some cases (like .TR) and with the real prices which translates 1$=1Euro. MS has a way more localized way of doing things, for them, Windows is released in a country when their distributor packs a local language DVD and puts on shelves.
Of course, I hate these old fashion things which only helps DVD plastic manufacturers as much as you do but it is not piracy or anything both are afraid from. In Apple's case, they could even release .ISO without DRM and they would trust their customer base who would still buy the legal one. That customer base is one thing MS can only dream about.
Can't you just put $25 from your checking account in savings and use the credit card to buy groceries? I hate the MIR dance as much as anyone does, but you win if you get the rebate.
That's a great idea but what if the person wants to be a victim rather than someone inconvenienced? :/
Really? I'm a student in Canada and I got my CD key for Windows 7 for $0 from the Microsoft Academic Alliance (MSAA).
Do you pay tuition? Then part of your fees went to fund that MSAA subscription your school keeps.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
The problem is they were using the free upgrade as a means to sell hardware right before a new OS release. Most customers new the release was imminent, and would have waited. Although there is a cost to mail out the DVD's, I believe that was the cost to get the sale a month early, and therefore should not get passed onto the customer.
Apple is charging their customers in the same situation $10 for the Snow Leopard upgrade. I expected free, but paid the $10
Never again will we purchase new hardware that close to an OS update. I'm guessing we are not alone.
MS really needs to allow downloading of the latest and up to date OS ISO.
I don't see why it would be so difficult to have a website where you can buy Windows 7; download it as a customised ISO wrapped into a CD-burner program
The DVD that arrives by post will be stamped not burned.
You'll have what the geek always claims he wants - a staple, permanent, back-up copy of your initial install.
If somebody offers me, in writing, $25 back if I buy something, I damn well expect to get $25 back.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
wow - did someone piss in your cereal this morning?
The OP did not say anything about copyrights being right or wrong, and didn't seem to to overly anti-copyright, and his point about microsoft's motives (or part of them) is arguably correct. He did mention that he thought the price of Windows is a lot, and he is free to think that if he wants. He didn't imply that it should be free or pirated.
I'm sure Microsoft is quite concerned about the abstraction between product and cost. People don't want to think about paying for development, testing and support. They want to pay for something they can hold in their hand or put on a shelf. That's why all the software boxes (and most other boxes) you see in the store are all bright and colourful, when a simple brown box would suffice. How many peoples comptur rooms do you go into and see software boxes on their shelves (collecting dust)? The box is a trophy. With a download there is no trophy.
Playing a 'word game' is EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing because they are afraid that if people 'think' that all they are paying for is an unlock code, then they won't be concerned when their brother in law 'gives' them the unlock code instead of buying it from Microsoft. So they make people think they are paying for a DVD, manual and box in addition to the software.
And there is nothing wrong with that, except for as other posters have pointed it adds cost to the product that it presumably passed on the the customer, as well as delays the release while the manufacturing process occurs. And Microsoft is fully within their rights to do both if they think that is the correct thing to do for their business.
Well, I don't know about his experience, but I can say that at my local Staples they will not let ANYONE but their friends have the Black Friday laptops. I watched them lie to everyone's faces and say they were gone until their friends made it to the front of the line and then they handed them over. Those that had been waiting in line for hours complained to the manager and basically got "too fucking bad".
I only showed up 20 minutes before opening for the cheap hard drives and RAM so it didn't affect me, but still it was some serious douchebag behavior. That is why I quit going to Staples on Black Friday and instead hit Newegg and Tigerdirect online. There are enough assholes in the world without the need for me to reward douches.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
So his bitch is that he got $25, but not in a form that would have allowed him to "make" it $26.25 via a reward scheme at his bank.
See why he comes across like a complete douche?
Frankly, no. They offered $25, and if it wasn't a cash or cash equivalent, they should have said that on the advertisement.
Unless there's some way to cash the credit card like a check (instead of spending it), in which case I'll concede that it's a cash equivalent.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
(Well, almost. I have had a couple of rare ones at the $25 level. But they were almost free.)