Vegetarian Spider Described

Smivs writes with word on a spider, Bagheera kiplingi, that dines almost exclusively on plants. "The recently described species of jumping spider, discovered by researchers from Villanova and Brandeis Universities, dines on the protein rich tips of acacias, the thorny shrubs found in much of Central America. ... The species of acacia... favored by the Bagheera kiplingi has protein-rich leaf tips and nutritious sap to reward its [symbiotic ant] protectors. ... The Bagheera kiplingi has essentially evolved to steal from the mouths of the ants. These agile, inquisitive jumping spiders can leap up to 50 times their own body lengths... Competition for prey in the spider world is fierce. The Bagheera kiplingi's ancestors took the reflexes evolved for hunting and adapted into a creature that uses them for ant evasion."

Comments

Semi-Vegetarian

[lyinhart]

From TFA: "The truth is, this spider isn’t a complete vegetarian – more of a flexitarian: it still snacks on the occasional ant attacker or ant larvae." So it's kind of like those people who say they're vegetarian, but "eat a little fish" or "a little beef."

I'm still waiting for PETA to release some propaganda relating to this story...

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Shakrai]

I'm still waiting for PETA [peta.org] to release some propaganda relating to this story...

They are too busy berating President Obama for murdering that poor innocent housefly.

PETA: Proudly placing animals ahead of people since 1980.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[atheistmonk]

A lot of pescetarians seem to classify themselves as vegetarians for some reason. I don't think you have an excuse when it comes to a little beef, though. The real question is do the spiders eat eggs or milk?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[oldhack]

Some of them also say chicken is not "meat".

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

As a vegetarian, i find the term flexitarian annoying. It's like a saying "I'm a virgin because I only do it doggy style". i'm also annoyed by people who say they are lacto-ovo-pollo-pesci vegetarian. They just don't eat cows. No need to label that! Seems more like they are trying to have a trendy label of their own. i'm not looking for a label, i generally avoid mentioning it at all. i just order what i want.

There's no reason to call this spider vegetarian. It's a spider that eats mostly plants and the occasional bug. It would be more accurate to say omnivore. The term vegetarian couldn't apply to a non-sapient animal. A dog that eats nothing but veggies isn't vegetarian, it's just eating what is available. It's not making a *choice* to not eat animals. These spiders aren't making a choice either. They're following instinct to find an easier source of food. It's an evolutionary change in strategy. For me, it is a choice. i am an omnivore choosing to not eat other animals. These spiders aren't troubled over the treatment of factory farm animals, or worried about cholesterol or anything else. They're just avoiding a crowded field of competition for food.

Yeah, it's very novel to see a spider nomming on plant matter, but rushing to call it vegetarian is as inane as calling anyone wearing all black goth. They might just be wearing all black... or they might be a juggalo or Marylin Manson fan... or....

The other thing that bugs me is how much other people obsess about what i'm NOT eating.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[ChameleonDave]

Indeed. I came here to point out much the same thing: it may be OK for the mainstream media to dumb down their reporting by using the anthropomorphic term "vegetarian" (a word referring to a philosophy) instead of the correct term "herbivore" (or, in this case, "omnivore"), but this is supposed to be news for nerds.

And yes, it's annoying that a sizeable proportion of the comments modded up as insightful on here will essentially be saying "I eat meat. Some people don't. LOL".

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[dakameleon]

They just don't eat cows. No need to label that!

Err, how about "Hindu"?

(and before I get the brigade marching in here claiming all manner of insults, I'm Hindu).

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[oldhack]

Yeah, yeah, but what you got against meat anyway? Sum wrong with you? It's cool, I'm judging or anything.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[wizardforce]

PETA: Proudly placing animals ahead of people since 1980.

ORLY?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[DerekLyons]

Yeah, it's very novel to see a spider nomming on plant matter, but rushing to call it vegetarian is as inane as calling anyone wearing all black goth. They might just be wearing all black... or they might be a juggalo or Marylin Manson fan... or....

Or as a tribute to the original Man In Black.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AmigaMMC]

PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[nmb3000]

http://www.petasavesanimals.com/petaKillsAnimals.cfm

* head explodes *

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Trogre]

So why should you deserve a label, while others don't?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[dafing]

I hate to defend PETA, but you should make it clear that they were contacted BY the media, its not like every vegan in the world flew to DC to picket outside the White House until fly spray (or hands capable of swatting) were banned!

Theres many more vegans worldwide than the one leading that PETA outfit. I'm a NZ vegan personally opposed to PETA because of their animal welfare campaigns "stop torturing chicks KFC, gas them instead! thats "humane" !", and how they have women pose as sex objects to sell the message about leaving animals alone. To learn more about animal rights, done RIGHT, Gary Francione has a good website, http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

I know its à la mode to beat up on vegetarians/PETA, but at least get your source right!

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[genner]

The term vegetarian couldn't apply to a non-sapient animal.

What would you call an animal that eats only vegatables and would starve itself if you gave it only meat?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Chris Mattern]

A herbivore. Vegetarian implies a conscious decision not to eat meat.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[querent23]

people are animals, my friend.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[ap7]

Well, while the cow is treated as holy by Hindus, an increasing number of Hindus do eat beef. Many Hindus would be shocked by this, but it is true.

I personally do not eat any animals, but that is out of choice and not dictated by religion.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[TimSSG]

People Ethically Terminating Animals Tim S. PS: I prefer the standard People Eating Tasty Animals.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[PCM2]

For me, it is a choice. i am an omnivore choosing to not eat other animals. These spiders aren't troubled over the treatment of factory farm animals, or worried about cholesterol or anything else.

Perhaps I'm quibbling, but I hope you see that what is true of the spider is also true of a lot of human vegetarians, as well.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[osu-neko]

The term vegetarian couldn't apply to a non-sapient animal.

At least, not without confusing people who lack the intelligence to figure out when people are speaking figuratively.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[drinkypoo]

As an omnivore who knows what shape his teeth are (I see them in the mirror every morning, more slashdotters ought to try looking in one occasionally) I find anyone who wants to talk about how vegetarian they are critically annoying, and I was born and "raised" in Santa Cruz which is hippie to the tits. Because it's a college town it's full of young people (I finally get to say that, although I noticed this when I was younger than they were) desperately trying to attach a label to themselves that will make someone think they are cool. It doesn't work, at least after college. Repeatedly and publicly calling yourself a vegetarian is your right, but it's kind of like fraternity/sorority lite. Recognition without commitment.

There are no indigenous vegetarians. None. You might reflect on that for a time. Plants have nervous systems and memories. I know a former raw food vegan fascist who had a revelation when she cried over murder of a food plant (I promise you I am not making this up, I think it was a broccoli of all things) and went back to feeding her body what it needed, a complete diet. Life feeds on life and we've evolved to eat meat.

It's not making a *choice* to not eat animals. These spiders aren't making a choice either. They're following instinct to find an easier source of food. It's an evolutionary change in strategy. For me, it is a choice.

Excuse me, what is the difference? Perhaps the meat available to you (at least as far as your body knows) isn't very good, and so your body makes you want to eat vegetables. You think that it's a conscious decision because people like to analyze stuff, but that doesn't mean that you actually made a conscious decision. I'm not saying you didn't, but I argue that it's more likely that you're rationalizing something.

The other thing that bugs me is how much other people obsess about what i'm NOT eating.

Bullshit, you invite the attention. At least, you did with this comment. It doesn't bug you, it gratifies you. Perhaps you're a vegetarian just to annoy people, and you don't even know it.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

Scientists and science reporters shouldn't speak figuratively. It's an incorrect and misleading use of the word.

"Pi is exactly 3. Figuratively speaking."

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[gstoddart]

So... what animals do you eat then? :P

As a staunch vegetarian, the only animal I'll eat is pussy. :-P

Cheers

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

Can someone call themselves abstinent because they only have sex doggy. style? Why do Christians balk when someone points out that Hitler was a Christian? The lacto-ovo-pesci-pollo crowd are meat eaters... who call themselves vegetarian BECAUSE they want the label. They want the label virgin because they do it every way except doggy style. It's a bit of a slap in the face to people who actually live up to it. i've played the video game SOCOM, does that make a special forces bad ass? i could say i was special forces IFF i was special forces. i was in the USAF, does that mean i should have a Semper Fi sticker on my car? Hell no, that would be a insult to those who endured the crucible.

i'm not interested in having the label. As i said, i avoid mentioning it. i mention it here because it is pertinent to the topic.

i'm interested in the label retaining meaning. For the same reason i object to file sharing being called piracy. Piracy is armed robbery at sea. Think of it as pedantry if it helps.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

"As an omnivore who knows what shape his teeth are"

Walk up to a cow and start biting. If you survive the kick we can talk about teeth and bite strength. However, if you can catch up to it, kill it without tools and eat it without cooking or seasoning it, more power to you.

"I find anyone who wants to talk about how Christian/Straight Edge/$other_Philosophy they are critically annoying"

FtfY

Fat people are annoyed by healthy people talking about how eat and exercise.

"desperately trying to attach a label to themselves that will make someone think they are cool"

Not all people to whom a label might apply are doing it for the label. Some are. i'm sorry some vegetarian broke your heart, cut you off in traffic or made you feel judged. But what is true of some is not necessarily true of the whole. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all Christians are crusaders or abortion clinic bombers. Not all Scottsmen go commando. Not all potheads are glassy eyed thieves. With any human activity there are those who will take it too far. There will be those 10% who make the other 90% look bad.

Don't confuse your personal experiences/anecdotes with evidence. i've never once harassed anyone about eating animals. If someone attacked me first, i've occasional fired back, but haven't done so in about 10 years. But for you i'll make an exception.

"Repeatedly and publicly calling yourself a vegetarian is your right, but it's kind of like fraternity/sorority lite. Recognition without commitment."

Speaking only for myself again, i don't do it for the label. Shit i would MUCH rather not ever have to say the word again. i'm tired of saying it and tired of hearing it applied to me. i'd much rather be allowed to order dinner without the inane questions, jokes and such. As for commitment, i've got that in spades. If you read my post, you'd see that i'm attacking people who want the label without the work.... Those who claim to be straight edge while taking a bong hit.

"There are no indigenous vegetarians. None. You might reflect on that for a time."

You might reflect on people being lazy and selfish for a time. You might also reflect on slavery having been popular in the US. Did so before != should continue to do so.

"Plants have nervous systems and memories."

Think about it this way, you draw a line at cats and probably dolphins, i draw the line somewhere else. If it came down to eating fish or starving, i'll eat the fish. Since 17 Nov 93 i've not been in a life or death situation, so i've opted out eating other animals.

"I know a"

Again with the describing the whole as being like an individual.

Great, you know someone. So what? i know a kid who went fishing an was traumatized by seeing the fish gutted. So what? Does that mean YOU have to stop eating fish? No, it doesn't. What does that have to do with you being an ignorant, intolerant, bigoted dick who cares about what someone they've never met eats? i know at least a dozen homosexuals who own macs and are pretty insistent about the superiority of their macs. Therefore all mac owners are gay and smug about their hardware.

"former raw food vegan fascist"

Do you also use the term feminazi? "My parents made me come home by 10. What a buncha fascists!"

"and went back to feeding her body what it needed"

Look up the word "need", it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. In the meantime there are some world class athletes who might might differ with you about what our bodies "need".

"a complete diet. Life feeds on life and we've evolved to eat meat."

And yet we have a choice. If you had actually read my post, instead of seeing a word that reminded you of someone who hurt your feelings which brought back of flood of butthurt memories which you've decided to take out on me and every other person who isn't JUST like you... you would have noticed that i acknowledged being an omnivore. My life feeds on life, yes. That's as true as it is irrel

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

Indeed, there are myriad reasons for people choosing to be vegetarian. i wouldn't say you're quibbling. i just didn't feel like typing out pages of reasons.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Jason Levine]

Besides all that, there's already a perfectly valid term to use to describe a spider that eats only plants (ignoring that "occasional ant attacker or ant larvae" thing for a second): an Herbivore. That's an animal that eats only plants. A vegetarian, as you said, is an animal (such as a human) that *can* eat meat but makes a conscious decision to only eat plants.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Jason Levine]

Just after I post a reply, I see that you posted almost the exact same thing. I really need to read replies before I reply!

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[wastedlife]

Not a vegetarian myself, but I agree that they should not call this spider vegetarian. When talking about animal diets, there are 3 main categories:

Hebivores: Consume mainly plants.
Carnivores: Consume mainly other animals.
Omnivores: Consume a mix of plants and animals.

Depending on how frequently this spider eats other animals, it would most likely be classified as an herbivore or an omnivore. I believe humans are classified as omnivores, but some make a choice to eat only plants(are there any meatatarians?). As a species, they are still omnivorous, but as a personal choice they are vegetarian.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Chris Burke]

Excuse me, what is the difference? Perhaps the meat available to you (at least as far as your body knows) isn't very good, and so your body makes you want to eat vegetables. You think that it's a conscious decision because people like to analyze stuff, but that doesn't mean that you actually made a conscious decision. I'm not saying you didn't, but I argue that it's more likely that you're rationalizing something.

There are plenty of vegetarians who like meat, but choose not to eat it for a variety of reasons. So as you would put it their body "makes them want to eat meat", but they choose not to.

So unless you're trying to raise the whole Free Will philosophical discussion, the difference is blatantly obvious.

There are no indigenous vegetarians. None. You might reflect on that for a time. Plants have nervous systems and memories. I know a former raw food vegan fascist who had a revelation when she cried over murder of a food plant (I promise you I am not making this up, I think it was a broccoli of all things) and went back to feeding her body what it needed, a complete diet. Life feeds on life and we've evolved to eat meat.

Human beings can survive perfectly fine on a diet of just vegetables as a matter of biology, your opinion. Being capable of doing so as a matter of practical reality is different, which is why you don't find indigenous peoples who are strictly vegetarian. Because food scarcity means they have to take whatever food sources they can. In the modern world, it's a viable choice. We're not omnivores because we evolved to need meat, we're omnivores because it expanded our potential nutrition sources.

Oh and yeah, I feel the same way about killing plants for food as I do animals. They do have far more "consciousness" than most give them credit for. So I kill things to survive, including tasty animals, and don't feel bad about it. But I don't tell myself that I need to eat animals. Because I don't, either in a biological sense nor a practical sense. That would just be a rationalization.

Bullshit, you invite the attention. At least, you did with this comment. It doesn't bug you, it gratifies you. Perhaps you're a vegetarian just to annoy people, and you don't even know it.

I think the conspicuously vegetarian who are doing it for social posturing (regardless of whatever other motivations) are extremely annoying. But simply talking about it in a discussion of a "vegetarian" spider isn't "inviting" attention in the way you imply anymore than someone saying that they are gay in a discussion of animal sexuality is inviting attention. It's only inviting your attention because you are annoyed by someone claiming they made a choice. The question is: Did you choose to to be annoyed by the concept of free will and thus invite attention to your point of view with these asinine comments, or is it just nature? I see a pot here calling the kettle black.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[VIPERsssss]

PETA can go fuck themselves.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[VIPERsssss]

... i generally avoid mentioning it at all. ...

And yet, here you are. ;-) Seriously, though, thanks for not getting all Preachy McPreacher and telling us what we should or should not be eating. I can't stand those people.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AugstWest]

Well, that would *sort of* make the name make sense. Bagheera was a black panther in Rudyard Kipling's Jungle Book (read it if you haven't, to yourself or to your kids), who was most definitely carnivorous. I can understand taking your possibly only chance to name a spider to honor (or honour, I guess) Kipling, but it seems odd to name a vegetarian spider after an accomplished hunter.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[AP31R0N]

Well, i DID day "generally", not "never" :) . In the case of this thread it seemed relevant.

And yeah, i don't do the preachy because i know how much it bothers me (i get the Preachy McPreachers about once a month or so). i'm not out to change anyone else, it's not my place. i get my share of people telling ME what i should be eating (just read some of the other responses to this thread). Basic Training was... interesting.

i'm sorry that some vegetarians/vegan/meatheads feel the need to get preachy. Folks like PETA distract from the issues by attention whoring. It's embarrassing. It's annoying to me to have to distance myself from them. Same can happen with any issue. Green Peace does some bad things in the name of their cause. Abortion clinic bombers do bad things in the name of their cause which makes it hard to people to talk about things with civility. 10% can give the other 90% a bad name. i just hope that individually, people can realize that the whole isn't represented by the fringe.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[hrimhari]

Sorry guys, but "vegetarian" is not an anthropomorphic term. It was actually coined first to differentiate life forms that eat only vegetables from other life forms that eat only meat (carnivores) or both (omnivore) and then adopted by people who choose to do the same.

It's people who choose to eat only one or another that has less right to use the term. They're still made omnivores, but choose to eliminate this or that food source.

The ovo-lacto-*.* is not less appropriate. It identifies which group of food sources the person eats.

What is inappropriate is to call oneself just vegetarian when actually eating a variety of animal proteins.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[hrimhari]

And it seems that I did confuse the term "vegetarian" with "herbivore", shame on me.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[B Nesson]

Life feeds on life and we've evolved to eat meat.

We've evolved to do all kinds of things. Fortunately, we don't have to do everything we've evolved to be able to do. The argument that our teeth are evolved to do something, so we're predestined to do that thing is about a half a step away from saying we should eat meat because God wants us to. We weren't 'meant' to do anything.

Perhaps the meat available to you (at least as far as your body knows) isn't very good, and so your body makes you want to eat vegetables. You think that it's a conscious decision because people like to analyze stuff, but that doesn't mean that you actually made a conscious decision. I'm not saying you didn't, but I argue that it's more likely that you're rationalizing something.

Well, I know it's a conscious choice because I really miss meat (especially chicken), and don't especially like all that many vegetables. Also, my being a vegetarianism turns every meal into a trial. I have to figure out where I can go that will have anything I can eat. I have to figure out what might have meat hidden in it when it's not immediately apparent. If I'm eating with my wife (who still does eat meat) I have to determine where we can go that will have food we both like and can both eat.

I usually have to pay more. I have to consider whether I'm meeting my nutritional needs. I'll often have to wait longer, since whatever I get will probably be a special order.

I can think of a lot of easier ways to be smug.

The other thing that bugs me is how much other people obsess about what i'm NOT eating.

Bullshit, you invite the attention. At least, you did with this comment. It doesn't bug you, it gratifies you. Perhaps you're a vegetarian just to annoy people, and you don't even know it.

Oh, please. I'd guess that you've met three or four times as many vegetarians as you're aware of, just because most of us don't make a big thing out of it. I don't know how many people I've met and known for months without them ever realizing I don't eat meat. Half the time, when they find out, they don't believe me.

Most of us really just do not give a shit what anyone else eats. We just want to eat what we want to eat in peace.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Abcd1234]

Human beings can survive perfectly fine on a diet of just vegetables as a matter of biology

No, they can't. Vitamin B12 is only available in meat, dairy, and eggs. Period. Citation. Quote:

The only reliable unfortified sources of vitamin B12 are meat, dairy products and eggs. There has been considerable research into possible plant food sources of B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds and algae have all been proposed as possible sources of B12. However, analysis of fermented soya products, including tempeh, miso, shoyu and tamari, found no significant B12.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Chris Burke]

Fine.

Human beings can survive perfectly fine on a diet that does not include meat as a matter of biology.

So veganism is only a viable choice in the modern world of vitamin-enriched foods, but that's not vegetarianism. Luck thing a large portion of humanity evolved the ability to process milk sugars as adults, am I right?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Binestar]

Why limit yourself to Tasty? Just go with "Please Eat The Animals" and you cover all your bases.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Jesus_666]

So, are all those people who follow trends without thinking and who go vegetarian because it's currently in vegetarian or herbivore?

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[laughing rabbit]

Vegetables are factory farmed, mono-cropped, and do have a nervous system. They are alive, and if those carrots stared back at you from your plate with big Bambi eyes, would you still eat them?

Just say that you are an animal chauvinist and be done with it.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Abcd1234]

Human beings can survive perfectly fine on a diet that does not include meat as a matter of biology.

That's splitting hairs. Milk and eggs are still animal products, and there are many who would object to their consumption.

The simple fact is we've evolved over millions of years to consume a diet that includes meat. Hell, it's the entire reason we were able to evolve these huge brains of ours: only meat could provide the density of calories needed such that the surplus could be used to fuel an oversized brain. Put simply, anyone who believes that eating meat or animal products isn't part of our fundamental biology is kidding themselves. There is, after all, a reason humans no longer have an organ for digesting cellulose.

As an aside, humans didn't start consuming milk as a regular component of our diet until after the development of domestication, long after meat became a regular part of the human diet. The consumption of milk just made it easier for humans to live a sedentary lifestyle (which itself was a precursor to modern societies).

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[drinkypoo]

Walk up to a cow and start biting. If you survive the kick we can talk about teeth and bite strength.

Obviously, as a tool user, I am considerably more evolved than you are.

Fat people are annoyed by healthy people talking about how eat and exercise.

Living without consuming animals is not healthy. It's harmful to every part of the body.

Don't confuse your personal experiences/anecdotes with evidence. i've never once harassed anyone about eating animals. If someone attacked me first, i've occasional fired back, but haven't done so in about 10 years. But for you i'll make an exception.

You blathered first. Yawn!

You might reflect on people being lazy and selfish for a time.

You're too lazy to run down a cow.

Do you also use the term feminazi?

The person in question is a very good friend of mine, who used these very words to describe herself. And yes, I do use the word feminazi, but only when confronted by a feminist who insists that men are the root of all evil. Which, frankly, is most of them. Feminism is like unions; a good idea whose time has passed. Let's talk about humanism.

Bullshit, my post was on topic. i made the comment because it was pertinent to the thread. It didn't gratify me, you arrogant prick.

Snicker snort. If you want people to believe that, you're going to have to stop playing along. You accuse me of attacking and insulting, then you pick up the very same rock and throw it right back at me. If it proves nothing else, it's that you are a willing participant in this conversation and you enjoy the attention.

Had you posted with a adult tone i would have responded in kind, you didn't so i spoke to you at a level you'd understand.

I already understand that you're living in denial.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[drinkypoo]

Life feeds on life and we've evolved to eat meat.

We've evolved to do all kinds of things. Fortunately, we don't have to do everything we've evolved to be able to do.

There are no satisfactory replacements for eating meat. Dietary supplements are horribly inadequate as opposed to consuming food which contains a given micro- or macronutrient. It is enormously difficult to get sufficient protein from plant sources, and the most popular way (soy) is potentially harmful to men due to phytoestrogen content, which may be the culprit responsible in soy's implication in increased alzheimer's risk in men who consume a lot of it, among other issues. Whew! That was a tortured sentence.

Well, I know it's a conscious choice because I really miss meat (especially chicken), and don't especially like all that many vegetables. Also, my being a vegetarianism turns every meal into a trial.

Why don't you just self-flagellate?

Oh, please. I'd guess that you've met three or four times as many vegetarians as you're aware of, just because most of us don't make a big thing out of it.

I doubt it. In fact, I am more likely to assume that someone is vegetarian than they are actually likely to be one, because many of the hippies I grew up around were vegetables (they say you are what you eat) but the hippies up where I live now in redneck country are more moderate.

Most of us really just do not give a shit what anyone else eats. We just want to eat what we want to eat in peace.

That might be, but it definitely doesn't apply to the windbag I was replying to.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[Chris Burke]

That's splitting hairs. Milk and eggs are still animal products, and there are many who would object to their consumption.

Yes and they're called "vegans". People who only object to killing animals for food, aka "vegetarians", don't mind eating animal byproducts including unfertilized eggs. I don't think killing vs not killing is splitting hairs.

Oh and it also gets to your point about B12 being unavailable from unfortified vegetables, so unless you were just nitpicking, it's a valid point.

The simple fact is we've evolved over millions of years to consume a diet that includes meat. Hell, it's the entire reason we were able to evolve these huge brains of ours: only meat could provide the density of calories needed such that the surplus could be used to fuel an oversized brain. Put simply, anyone who believes that eating meat or animal products isn't part of our fundamental biology is kidding themselves. There is, after all, a reason humans no longer have an organ for digesting cellulose.

Because we aren't grazing animals? Yes we evolved to eat meat "or animal products". We still retained the ability to eat a wide variety of vegetable matter. We kept our molars. We are omnivores.

And the evolutionary impetus of taking advantage of the additional source of food and high caloric density of meat is not the same as a biological requirement. It's a simple fact that human beings do not have to eat meat and can still be perfectly healthy.

So just because ancient humans didn't realistically have the option of avoiding meat, that doesn't mean you're denying your body "what it needs" as drinkypoo said by choosing, today, not to eat meat.

As an aside, humans didn't start consuming milk as a regular component of our diet until after the development of domestication, long after meat became a regular part of the human diet. The consumption of milk just made it easier for humans to live a sedentary lifestyle (which itself was a precursor to modern societies).

Yes, that is a recent evolutionary development and one that isn't present in the entire species. And... that means it's not a valid adaptation from which to inform choices about diet why? I mean I realize you aren't explicitly claiming it isn't. But the poster I first replied to was essentially saying that vegetarianism is not a valid ethical choice because humans evolved to "need" meat.

Except we haven't stopped evolving, both genetically and culturally, and today we do not "need" meat. So if someone chooses to take advantage of that fact, whether because of ethics, economics, or health, I see no reason to judge them for it. Especially not on the basis of human evolution. It's not a choice I make, but that's the whole point. We're not unthinking animals. We can make choices about our lifestyles. We are not tied to the lifestyles which we genetically evolved into, and that is humanity's greatest strength.

Re:Semi-Vegetarian

[volpe]

From the linked site:

PETA killed over 14,400 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 90 percent of the animals it took in during 2005 alone.

Um, why would one count spaying and neutering towards the tally of how many animals they've killed?

Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Rei]

For example, spider mites. Infestations of them are frustratingly difficult to get rid of. They're so tiny that it stretches the bounds of human vision to spot them -- although their webbing is generally easily visible when infestations are bad. Their mouthpieces are designed to cut open individual plant cells. Since they're not insects, many conventional insecticides don't work on them -- for example, acetamiprid.

Of course, then there are the predatory mites that eat the spider mites...

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[geekoid]

If they are vegetarians, why do they make webs?

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Rei]

To protect the colony from predators.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians"

Only the trendy ones.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[tpgp]

If they are vegetarians, why do they make webs?

For protection.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[geekoid]

interesting, and kind of obvious in hind sight.

Thanks.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Anonymous Coward]

Their webs are for energy production only. They are peaceful spiders. Really.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[v1]

I was going to ask about spidermites here. Are such mites technically still considered spiders? Are all mites arachnids?

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[ignavus]

If they are vegetarians, why do they make webs?

So they can have websites?

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[ichthyoboy]

Are all mites arachnids?

Yes

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[gestalt_n_pepper]

Why did my mother macrame? These are questions best left to philosophers.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[gestalt_n_pepper]

Sort of a "metro-insectual?" (Buh duh BUH!)

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Whiteox]

Yes, they are webetarians (guffaw and snigger)!

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[MindlessAutomata]

It's pretty interesting how evolution, with its constraints being what is already available, leads organisms to evolve many different functions for similar... "features" or such.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, spider mites are not spiders. They are arachnids like spiders, scorpions and ticks, but they are mites.

Re:Well, plenty of arachnids are vegetarians.

[VIPERsssss]

LOL

You don't make friends with salad

[atheistmonk]

Their go the friendship prospects with the neighbourhood arachnids.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[atheistmonk]

Disclaimer: I'm a vego. That probably explains why my only friend on /. is a user named some_guy_88.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Rei]

Hey -- I'm a vegetarian, too. You *can* win friends with salad ;)

(not that salad makes up any sizable fraction of your average vegetarian's diet... that's a silly stereotype from people who've never really given much thought to what vegetarians would eat)

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[some_guy_88]

Hey! I resent that.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[geekboy642]

Do you only ever post when it gives you the chance to use your fancy punctuation?

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[atheistmonk]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to see that. Maybe you started wondering when all the tomatoes in your house went missing.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Rei]

Hey, I doubt anyone on Slashdot has more tomatoes in their house right now than me. Between a huge shelf full of canned tomatoes, the large stack of ripe ones in the fridge, or the two paper grocery bags each half full of green tomatoes picked before the frost....

I guess it's time for Italian food tonight! :)

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[bennomatic]

Once a friend of mine were having a lobster dinner, which came with access to the salad bar. I was getting up to get my salad and asked if he was coming, too, and he said:

"Salad is what food eats."

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[bennomatic]

Hey, are you two friends or something? Quit showing off your social skills! Makes the rest of us feel bad.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[AP31R0N]

i make a bad ass veggie chili that my cannibal friends love.

Stereotypes are easier than thinking/self analysis *shrugs*.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Joe Snipe]

Wow an atheist monk vegetarian! Let us know if you ascend.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[BrotherBeal]

So... are your friends vegetables or are you taking the couch potato metaphor a little too seriously?

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Tubal-Cain]

Yes~

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Ronald Dumsfeld]

Remember, you are what you eat. But, what does that say about vegetarians?

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[gestalt_n_pepper]

It says we don't eat rocky mountain oysters.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Red Flayer]

Between a huge shelf full of canned tomatoes, the large stack of ripe ones in the fridge, or the two paper grocery bags each half full of green tomatoes picked before the frost....

Don't you find the texture to be absolutely destroyed by refrigeration? Sure, if you're going to cook them down, keep them in the fridge -- but for eating raw or lightly cooked... IMO, the fridge kills tomatoes. Turns em into mush.

Or do you have some kind of mystic tomato-refrigeration technique you could share?

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Rei]

The fridge is where the ripe ones with damaged skin or cracks go. They normally turn into sauce, but occasionally go to other uses. The wicker basket on the kitchen table is where the ones without damage go. I can't store ones with damage there because they'll rot. I also dehydrate some.

I find that the fridge's affect on tomatoes depends strongly on the type. The juicier the tomato, the less they become mealy.

And I'd imagine vegetarian spiders would agree.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[drinkypoo]

They serve salad at the wrong end of a meal. You need it to scrub out your colon, it should be at the end. This fits in perfectly with the goals of my political group, Dessert First! You can imagine that we have large fundraisers.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[gstoddart]

Hey -- I'm a vegetarian, too. You *can* win friends with salad ;)

You can do much better than salad, as you point out.

I've spent about 8-9 years learning to cook so that when I go to someone's place I can cook dinner, or if they're over, I can cook for them. My food repertoire spans vegetarian versions of Mexican, Italian, French, Indian, Ukranian, Spanish, and a bunch of other places. I own more cookbooks than most normal people, vegetarian or otherwise.

Vegetarian cooking can be exceedingly diverse, and while most of my friends are omnivores with a bent towards being carnivores, I've fed all of them, and they've all been very happy with what I've given them.

If you know what you're doing, you can trot out some pretty damned tasty dishes!!

Cheers

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[geekoid]

No, it's just that genius stands out.

Also, I'm a snarky SOB.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[geekoid]

I got bad news for your friend:

He's food. Don't believe me? Ask a hungry lion.

Re:You don't make friends with salad

[Uzuri]

I call your shelf, stack, and bags and raise to a shelf, stack, and two bushel baskets.

And a basement full of assorted squash.

writes on a spider

[emeraldemon]

"Smivs writes with word on a spider..." My first thought when reading this was "What kind of computer is a spider?" followed by "Why isn't he using Open Office?"

Keep Reading...

[swanzilla]

FTA:

Plesiometa Argyra is a fairly common fly and mosquito catching spider in Costa Rica. Every day of its life it weaves a flimsy circular web to catch its prey - unless it gets stung by a Hymenoepimecis argyraphaga wasp. That’s where this spider’s life gets, well, very interesting. The wasp sting briefly paralyzes the spider and eventually turns it into a zombie.

Unfortunately, one must read about a boring vegetarian spider to find out that there exists something as mind-blowing as a zombie spider

Re:Keep Reading...

[FrankSchwab]

How about a Zombie Tarantula? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk

Re:Keep Reading...

[BikeHelmet]

Funny? Informative!

If we can control a bug with electrodes, it's not unfeasible that an arachnid could be controlled by chemicals from larva.

Rather scary, actually. It makes me proud to be a big mentally strong human being - which in truth, can get knocked out by about 50mg of some chemicals. :P

Re:Keep Reading...

[Chris Burke]

While Tarantula Hawks are awesome, it's not quite as crazy as what these other wasps do. The T-Hawk's victim is simply paralyzed to serve as food. The argyraphaga victim actually remains mobile, but does the wasp's bidding by first building a specialized web just to hold the larva's cocoon, then waiting patiently in the middle of the web to serve as a snack. It's a zombie minion.

Re:Keep Reading...

[gyrogeerloose]

Boy, that's truly bizarre. Almost as weird as the toxoplasmosis parasite, which changes the natural behavior of mice so they're no longer afraid of cats.

Re:Keep Reading...

[FrankSchwab]

Too bad you big mentally strong human being are susceptible...to brain-sucking parasitic amoebas: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/01/brain_parasite/ Unfortunately real.

Re:Keep Reading...

[pwfffff]

A whole 50mg? Everyone knows the craziest drugs are measured in micrograms.

Re:Keep Reading...

[PitaBred]

That's not zombie-ism like the spiders. It's just horrible death, a-la your signature

More evidence that Vegetarianism is emasculating

[guidryp]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091012121331.htm

" with hints of males helping to care for eggs and young, another behavior that is virtually unknown among spiders. "

Re:More evidence that Vegetarianism is emasculatin

[Rei]

Yeah! In what sort of crazy species would the males help care for the young? :P

Re:Damn, I've been tricked.

[Chris Burke]

Naw, the Ubuntu code name is Vegetarian Velociraptor.

so this spider has ceased the war on insects

[circletimessquare]

and settled down as a benign vegetarian

give that spider the nobel peace prize

I Guess 'Omnivore' is Not as Exciting...

[RudeIota]

For example:
"Surreal" Vegetarian Spider Found -- A First

"Though the spider does occasionally snack on ant larvae, the bulk of their diet is plants" -- Meehan said.

"Vegetarian Spider" results: 118
"Omnivore Spider" results: 2 (both unrelated)

Are they vegetarian? Absolutely not. But it sounds good.

Re:I Guess 'Omnivore' is Not as Exciting...

[dbet]

Meh, why must "vegetarian" mean only plants rather than primarily plants?

Anyway, if you want to really mess with vegetarians, remind them that mushrooms are not plants. Therefore, almost no human is a vegetarian (since most eat mushrooms). Right?

Re:I Guess 'Omnivore' is Not as Exciting...

[Polumna]

Meh, why must "vegetarian" mean only plants

It doesn't. Even vegans get fungus. If you actually know someone that falls for that though, you might try yeast instead of mushrooms. That ought to really blow their minds.

OLD NEWS

[Subverted]

This spider is not news... it was last August, but not now... I mean...anyone that knows anything about spiders has known about it for over a year, it was even covered in major publications. Congrats on being late to the party like most of the internet.

Re:OLD NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you appear to be new here, let me welcome you to Slashdot!

Unfortunately, most of the articles that get posted here are old news to anybody who actually specializes in that field. I've personally submitted articles at the same time that the events described within happened, but the articles didn't get approved and posted for months afterward. Slashdot is generally intended to be a discussion site, not a news site.

Re:OLD NEWS

[PitaBred]

And how many people here do you honestly believe follow the world of spiders? Do I get to make fun of you now for not knowing the stats of various football players, or anime release times, or some other bullshit you're normally not interested in? This is a story because it was finally published, which means it's cast to a broader audience than just arachnophiles. Get off your high horse.

Re:More evidence that Vegetarianism is emasculatin

[Chris Burke]

" with hints of males helping to care for eggs and young, another behavior that is virtually unknown among spiders. "

Yeah... considering the number of species where the male gets the hell out of dodge as soon as they fertilize the female so they don't get eaten, I'm not so sure a species where the male is confident enough to stick around is a sign of emasculation. :)

Bacon is a vegetable

[Hillgiant]

And I resent your insinuation.

wow that is cool

[Dan667]

it is almost like the spider evolved because of the challenge to be vegetarian (or omnivore) more than vegetarian being an easy food source.

Since they've discovered a vegetarian spider...

[hyades1]

...can a flesh-eating hamster be far behind?

Re:Since they've discovered a vegetarian spider...

[Rei]

I'll do you one better: deer that eat the skulls of their live victims.

I've personally seen a squirrel eating a dead bird. It held the wing in its mouth the same cute way they hold a nut. Rather creepy.

Back to rodent pets: I had a friend a long time ago who was doing experiments feeding caffeine to mice and observing the effects on their behavior. They refused to drink their water with the (bitter) caffeine in it at first, so he had to sweeten it. He steadily increased their dose, and then suddenly cut it off. The next morning, he came out and two of them had killed and were eating a third.

Re:Since they've discovered a vegetarian spider...

[hyades1]

Thanks for the link. That was fascinating.

Vegan pride

[dafing]

good on you for posting here, I know whenever I mention Im vegan on american websites, that I'll get "OMFG!!!!1111!! PETA KILLZ TEH ANIMAULS!!!111!".

I recently donated to No Agenda, was mentioned on episode 138, John C Dvorak said "I dont know why a "vay-gun" listens to this show"

(direct download of the clip http://www.archive.org/download/JayWontDartNoAgenda138MentionVegan/Na138NzVeganJayWontDartMention.m4a )

Its just something we need to change over time, by coming across as reasonable people, if possible, try and seem MORE reasonable than the person on the other side :) Eventually, other people being vegan will be quite accepted by the mainstream populace.

Re:Vegan pride

[pwfffff]

Banning an entire class of food from your diet does not make you a 'reasonable' person unless you're somehow deathly allergic to meat.

Re:Vegan pride

[dafing]

Of course it doesnt, being reasonable makes me reasonable :)

I bet there are a great deal of things you personally wouldnt eat. Many of those would be eaten in other cultures or at other times in history.

Do you eat insects? Cats? Dogs? Why not? Isn't it "reasonable" to keep your dietary options wide open?*



*in case you do eat insects, cats, dogs, do you eat dirt? Some people do, and Im sure its full of nutrients. If you ALSO eat dirt, then I have no other examples :)

"Emo" not "Goth"

[syousef]

Yeah, it's very novel to see a spider nomming on plant matter, but rushing to call it vegetarian is as inane as calling anyone wearing all black goth. They might just be wearing all black...

Aparently it's changed since we were young. "Goth" is a sad 90's sub-culture, but wearing black and mopping around while declaring your hate for everything is "Emo" (which I think is short for emotionally crippled fashion victim).

Re:"Emo" not "Goth"

[Taevin]

wearing black and mopping around

They can be Emo all they want as long as they keep the floors clean!

Vegetarian & Lazy

[Mr. Lwanga]

Its a hippie spider, Cartman save us.

comedy

[fireball84513]

spider: yoink! ant: hey, wtf!?!

Albert Einstein was vegetarian

[sarkku]

I was curious to know why they had put Einstein's photo to the news. After little bit of searching I found the answer, he was a _vegetarian_!

Re:Albert Einstein was vegetarian

[Jesus_666]

Maybe he was also a spider.

I had a delicious beefburger with an Hindu chap.

[jotaeleemeese]

When I asked him if it wasn't against his religion he replied that he was willing to reincarnate as a low life form in exchange for so much deliciousness :-) (in reality he was a fellow atheist, but I didn't know at the time).

Old News

[boulat]

Oh this is great, over a year old news
http://greenupgrader.com/3119/discovery-vegetarian-spiders/

False

[Snaller]

Making a choice is NOT relevant. It's what you eat, not why you eat it that defines 'vegetarian'

Re:False

[AP31R0N]

Hey Rotsky,

You should read more of the responses before posting. You missed the bit about the difference between herbivore and vegetarian. Cows aren't vegetarian, they are herbivores. A dog that eats nothing but veggies is not a vegetarian, it's an omnivore. i'm an omnivore. Being vegetarian is a choice made by a non-herbivore. If a kid has no access to animals as food, he isn't vegetarian. He hasn't chosen to be so. Got it?

You're right about the "why", why isn't the issue with who is or isn't vegetarian.

Re:DG jean man & Chanel Wallet & Dior Sung

[CompMD]

Isn't spamming slashdot telling people to go to your website tantamount to trying to rob a gun store filled with customers?

Re:Damn, I've been tricked.

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Naw, the Ubuntu code name is Vegetarian Velociraptor.

Uh oh, Randall Munroe is going to shit himself....

Evolved?

[iso-cop]

Not only are we throwing the word vegetarian around but also the word evolve. The blog and the article it references do not give any basis for evolution. The following concepts are related but far from being the same.

From dictionary.com: evolution: Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

From dictionary.com: adaptation: Biology. a. any alteration in the structure or function of an organism or any of its parts that results from natural selection and by which the organism becomes better fitted to survive and multiply in its environment.

The spider continues to need protein as its primary diet but found a different source. Other posters recognized similar situations. For example, if a type of dog lives in an area with lots of rabbits it will probably eat rabbits and still be the same type of dog. In the same way, it could be squirrels... or even peanuts!

Re:Evolved?

[marcosdumay]

That spider digest its food in a way that is completely different from other spiders, how is that not an important change?

Re:Damn, I've been tricked.

[Chris Burke]

But they're vegetarian velociraptors! They don't eat meat! Hardly ever! Only on special occasions. Or when they're really hungry. Or when the humans drop their guard- damn!

Re: Hitler, Religion, Vegetarians

[some guy I know]

Why do Christians balk when someone points out that Hitler was a Christian?

Hitler was not a Christian, although he may have let his subjects believe he was in order to gain/maintain power.
He was, however, a vegetarian (to get back on-topic (sort of)).

(Disclaimer: I am not a Christian, but I am a vegetarian (vegan, in fact), just like Hitler.
However, I have no interest in genocide or invading Poland.)