Blogger Humiliates Town Councillors Into Resigning

Dr_Barnowl writes "In an occurrence first postulated in sci-fi and later lampooned by stick figures, it seems that a blogger has actually been responsible for the mass resignation of elected officials — a British town council — largely by calling them 'jack***es' and Nazis. What's next? The deposition of a president with 'your mom' smacktalk?"

Comments

It finally happened!

[Jurily]

Bloggers are taking over the world!

Let's just hope xkcd will be the new president.

Re:It finally happened!

[Hal_Porter]

I'm going to kill Cory Doctorow right now. I know his chances of making it as Polemarch (or Archon or whatever, I can't be assed reading Ender's Game because I know the plot twist) are minimal but I can't take that chance.

Re:It finally happened!

[MichaelSmith]

If you strike him down now he will just become more powerful.

Re:It finally happened!

[hedwards]

Which is why he should be encased in carbonite, duh. That way he makes a handle lair decoration and isn't helping the good guys.

Re:It finally happened!

[Anonymous Coward]

I know his chances of making it as Polemarch (or Archon or whatever, I can't be assed reading Ender's Game because I know the plot twist).

Hegemon... as in "Hegemony".

Well, at least *I* thought that was a clever title for the position...

You LIE!

[Zarf]

I'm going to let you finish but...

Re:You LIE!

[Zarf]

In all seriousness... from the scant details in the real article (which barely provides any information) it seems the blog functioned as a newspaper would. Other than the fact that this was a blog I don't see how this is different from ... say "The Colonist's Advocate" used by Benjamin Franklin... or their modern analogs such as Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" or their "Covert Report" ... or (on the right) the "comedians" such as Rush Limbaugh or the comedy players on Fox News. There's a fine tradition of comedians helping to shape politics dating back at least as far as Shakespeare.

Re:You LIE!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you seriously just FP whore yourself? Made a three word post to get a 'placeholder' then replied to it for karma? Sad, sad day - especially in that it worked.

Re:You LIE!

[Zarf]

Oh please. Do you see my UID? I've been karma capped for a decade.

Like I'd be such a noob that I'd reply to an AC.

A better way

[MichaelSmith]

If you want to get rid of a city council I suggest you look into the manipulation of email headers. I doubt that many of these people have spent much time around sci.space.policy or 4chan. They probably think that "the system" puts those Reply-To: and From: fields in.

Re:A better way

[Verteiron]

Nah, if you REALLY want all the city council to resign as a body, put an ex-tailor in charge.

Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[LatencyKills]

TFA is atrociously thin on what I'm certain is a long-ongoing feud between many townspeople and not the inflammatory comments of a single blogger. I think all rational people realize that when someone whips out the Nazi comparison that they're just behaving irrationally and will most likely be ignored, so the argument we're supposed to believe is that 12 counselors resigned over being called jackasses? Seems unlikely. For those of you hoping to start a grass roots revolution so easily, I'd be willing to bet that at least some level of phone calls to their homes at all hours and perhaps a few loud townhall meetings were involved (both of which, incidentally, you can't do at either the US House or Senate).

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[gowen]

To be fair, looking at his blog (see here) he's not exactly clear about his allegations. Having read his droolings, I firmly believe that people would quit working for a council to avoid having to deal with that paranoid mental case.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

The associated blog itself only hints at the underlying cause - it *appears* that a direct enquiry as to why the said council was not responding to requests under the Freedom of Information Act let to a mass "spontaneous" resignation. It all appeared to be quite an orchestrated circus, the mass walk-out that is, and so was probably foreseen by the said council members. Funny how they all had letters of resignation ready to submit.
Methinks they doth protest too much, and one anticipates exposure of earlier ill-deeds by some of the outgoing council, perhaps even legal actions.
Overall, kudos to the blogger for speaking truth to power - more evidence that the current "blogger's revolution" referenced recently here on slashdot will see our modern media overturned in short shrift.
And from the comments to the blog, it looks like it's riled up the peasants somewhat, and we'll see more citizen action in the near future. It's so heartening to see grass-roots action affecting real change.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[BasilBrush]

paranoid mental case.

His concerns seem valid. There looks to be manipulation of the planning system for personal profit by a councillor who is also a property developer.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[AmiMoJo]

You are correct, they resigned because of sustained pressure not just from this blogger but from local press and constituents (voters). They are just blaming the blogger to elect sympathy (no pun intended).

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't that happen on every council?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

to elect sympathy (no pun intended).

If you'd said 'elicit' there would've been no pun anyway...

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[thewiz]

An answer to your title: Of course we can't; they're too hooked on the money they get from lobbyists and "special" interests. The money and congressional aids make it easier to ignore the citizens of the USA.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[NickFortune]

I agree entirely. There's this meme going around that holds that if newspapers die, investigative journalism will vanish from the face of the earth. I think this case could well serve as a counter example.

Incidentally, is it me or is there a a strong subtext of "don't try this at home, kids!" to many of the posts on this topic? You'd almost think some people were worried in case this sort of grass roots political activism should catch on....

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[NickFortune]

bah. messed up closing the italics ... teach me not to get sloppy with my previews, I guess.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[twostix]

Civil servants in the mother country have developed a disturbing sense of over entitlement to their positions and status. So no it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that a single blogger has been enough of pain for a couple of them enough to throw a hissy fit. In "nu england" where 1 in 4 workers are employed by the government a new class of individual has arisen: the over entitled, all powerful, low level, vindictive, civil servant.

The movie Brazil would have been better named "UK" because as they say, nobody does bureaucracy like the English - and they used to say that *before* the Nu Labour "revolution".

Off the top of my head from the last few months various councils have:

Sent men in black vans to rummage through individuals bins to make sure that they are sorting their rubbish properly (before sending to mass landfill anyway).

Started placing cameras *in* families homes - 20000 of them over the next few years.

Reduced bin collection to every *two weeks* AND reduced the size of bins.

Placed cameras in alleyways to ensure people are tying off their garbage bags properly.

Seized the pole from a barbers shop - that had been their for 30 years.

Impounded a mothers pram.

Arrested a man for leaving the lid of his bin open four inches greater than regulation allows.

Started using thermal imaging to send residents notices if they are allowing heat to escape from their homes.

Used anti-terror laws to conduct surveillance on people the council suspects of having un-approved structures...like a garden shed in the backyard.

So my dear American, best to not apply your own Occams razor - my own countries governance must be the same everywhere - fallacy on newly emerging post democratic totalitarian states.

What people can stay free, when one of them demands the other three pay him to regulate their lives?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Hurricane78]

I think all rational people realize that when someone whips out the Nazi comparison that they're just behaving irrationally and will most likely be ignored

And I think that people who without exceptions ignore any Nazi comparison, even when it fits (I'm not saying this is the case here), are just as irrational, as those who use irrational comparisons, and with them in the same mindset of one-dimensional black/white thinking as... well... you know who. ^^

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[WillDraven]

Just because something is common doesn't mean it's right.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[FireFury03]

Funny how they all had letters of resignation ready to submit.

Yes, because it takes *weeks* to draft a resignation letter...

That said, if you are a public figure, making decisions on behalf of the public, you should expect criticism.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Viraptor]

One response only... "[citation needed]". Some of the stuff you listed are just random delusions that you can find in The Sun every time. Others seem like one-off crazy cases that can happen... but they happen more or less everywhere else too and when you present them stripped out of context, they don't really matter (they're usually connected to long-standing conflicts). I can only confirm the whole bin collection thing - it is just crazy and it is a big problem (although I don't know about any place that does the collection less than once a week).

Also, if only all bureaucracies worked as well as UK's! I don't mind filling loads of forms if they actually solve my problem in time - which was not always the case in other countries I lived in.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[ta bu shi da yu]

Oh seriously, that's what they should expect when they are in government! Something tells me that they made the right move in resigning if they were all so thin-skinned...

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[FireFury03]

Reduced bin collection to every *two weeks*

Sorry, I just don't understand the complaints on this front. The local council here does rubbish collection every week and recycling collection every 2 weeks. I put out one *small* bin bag every 2 weeks. I produce maybe 4 or more times the volume of recycling than I produce landfill rubbish. Now, I admit that I am a single person, but a family of 4 should produce less than 4 times the amount of rubbish than a single person, and yet we have people with the *large* 240 or 360 litre wheelie bins in the news complaining that over 2 weeks they produce far more landfill rubbish than can be accommodated in their bin. What the hell are these people throwing away? I would wholly support the idea of reducing landfill rubbish collections to every 2 weeks; I just wish my council would introduce kerbside plastic and tetra collections so I don't have to take that stuff to the tip myself.

Used anti-terror laws to conduct surveillance on people the council suspects of having un-approved structures...like a garden shed in the backyard.

Citation please. You don't need planning permission for temporary structures, such as garden sheds, so this sounds completely bogus to me.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[murdocj]

Having watched small town politics for a while, I think many people get elected filled with idealism and then quickly get disillusioned by how petty and nasty the politics can get. Imagine being put under a microscope where saying hello to a couple fellow board members at the only grocery store in town can become an illegal non-public session?

I'm not saying that local government is pure as driven snow. There's certainly plenty of sweetheart deals and backroom stuff. But from what I've seen, being in local government means taking abuse on a level that's pretty the same thing as that kid in 7th grade who was lucky if he only got beat up once in a day.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[ta bu shi da yu]

Oh, but if only the Australian New South Wales State government would do the same thing and resign as one in protest! Currently we have to wait for just under 2 years before they will be voted out.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Jawn98685]

...and perhaps a few loud townhall meetings were involved (both of which, incidentally, you can't do at either the US House or Senate).

Ahem..., kept up on recent events in the House much? Let's just say that for certain factions, those feeling a little "challenged", decorum ain't what it used to be.

As for TFA, it is indeed startlingly short on detail and context that might have made the story more meaningful. If the elected officials actually suffered from harassment, as opposed to civil discourse that legitimately challenged their actions, it is a shame that they quit. If that's what happens it means the system is more broken than if they had only been guilty of corruption.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Troll - classic mix of truth and rampant hyperbole.

Local councils have been given way more power than they need allowing them to spend money on total nonsense - but;

• I've heard of no councils that have reduced bin collection to every 2 weeks - only certain 'luxury pickups' like garden waste (leaves, hedge trimmings etc.) and certain recycling pickups; so definite citation needed here
• The cameras in people's homes are a UK Gov plan that the councils have no choice but to follow - blame the cabinet for that cracking idea
• the barbers pole was removed as it was causing problems with drivers on the road next to it, the council was submitting to complaints that had been made. Say what you will about their decision, but at least admit there was a method to their madness
• The man wasn't arrested for leaving his bin open - he was fined, for over-filling his bin. It was a bit specific to the letter of the law, but its not outrageous to draw the line where they did
• the thermal cameras are already being used to detect drug factories being setup in residential homes, its not a stretch to make homeowners aware of ludicrously inefficient insulation in their homes for minimal extra costs - some would even consider it a public service (i know gasp).

I'm sure these were honest slips of the finger and that you of course had no agenda of your own to ply. But please try to remember that not everyone's definition of Freedom involves being left to fend for yourself while amoral corporations and modern day lords and barons in the forms of bankers and CEO's tie up the legal system for their own ends and prey upon those to small or poor to defend themselves. Also please remember that at least 75% of those civil servants (the 1 in 4 apparently :s) are low-level administrators who earn just above the min wage (current A-band salary in local and national Gov goes from approx £14,300 -16,500 - this band also covers cleaners, binmen, street cleaners, so called menial jobs etc.). Don't even pretend these are people you could do without, as the national outcry and massive disruptions caused by industrial action in just a few places pretty much proves their worth. The 1 in 4 also include teachers, nurses, GP's, doctors, police, paramedics, firemen, the civilian forces that help maintain the previous list, the armed forces in all its forms and the various arms of the MOD. These are the people that keep you alive and guard your freedoms, your children and your future. Yet well over 50% take home less than a supervisor at fucking McDonalds.

Keep your freedom to be fucked - I'd rather live in a country that recognises the need to protect certain freedoms by building an infrastructure - even if it does have to pruned once in a while (keeping in mind you prune from the top down :)).

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[biryokumaru]

In America, a lot of that crap would get you shot, I don't care if you're from the "government" or not. Even federal agents need probable cause (or some other silly legal term for "a pretty darn good reason to look through your stuff," ridiculousness about border controls post 9/11 notwithstanding). Why do people still live in countries where something like that is allowed to go on?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[abigsmurf]

Sent men in black vans to rummage through individuals bins to make sure that they are sorting their rubbish properly (before sending to mass landfill anyway).

Binmen inspect what you put in the recycling bin. One bin full of badly sorted waste can contaminate an entire truck of recyclable material. If you don't sort properly, your recycled bin gets put in the landfill.

Started placing cameras *in* families homes - 20000 of them over the next few years.

Bullshit typical of the Daily Mail

Reduced bin collection to every *two weeks* AND reduced the size of bins.

Bin collection alternates recycled and landfill each week. Bins are regular sized wheelybins. If you sort, the amount of rubbish collected is no different.

Placed cameras in alleyways to ensure people are tying off their garbage bags properly.

How dare they put a camera in a public street to ensure people don't treat it like their public dump!

Seized the pole from a barbers shop - that had been their for 30 years.
Impounded a mothers pram.

More Daily Mail crap.

Arrested a man for leaving the lid of his bin open four inches greater than regulation allows.

Leaving the lid open 4 inches... and causing his street to get infested with rats. The lids have to be firmly shut for a reason. Still the story is likely BS anyway. He probably got a caution saying he'd get a fine if he continued to do it.

Started using thermal imaging to send residents notices if they are allowing heat to escape from their homes.

Sending such evil "notices" as "you could save £30 a year on heating bills if you got loft insulation". How dare they give out money saving advice!

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[misexistentialist]

They like it. The insidious thing about totalitarianism is that it is fun! They don't like making choices for themselves, and they like forcing choices on others. It makes life easier, since they can pretend to be responsible for nothing.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Hope Thelps]

The movie Brazil would have been better named "UK" because as they say, nobody does bureaucracy like the English

Huh? The name "Brazil" represents the fantasy land Sam Lowry escapes to in his dreams, not the society he lives in. It's no secret that the society is based on the UK. I think a UK address is clearly given at one point.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

.... to elect sympathy (no pun intended).

No pun achieved because the word you thought you were using is 'elicit.'

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

I think all rational people realize that when someone whips out the Nazi comparison that they're just behaving irrationally

Normally you'd be right, but you know, when the council voted to invade Poland, someone had to dare to speak the truth!

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard of no councils that have reduced bin collection to every 2 weeks

Bristol & South Glos. councils have, for a start. We have a "Black bin" week followed by a "Green bin" week. The green bin is compostable material such as garden waste, cardboard & (trials of) food waste. We also have glass, metal & paper collected on the same week as the green bin.

Basically this means the black bin is only emptied every two weeks. I remember thinking "How the hell will this work?" when they introduced it several years ago: these days I have room to spare when the bin goes out for collection.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

No pun was perpetrated, thus whatever intention of yours elicited your comment is moot.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Dun Malg]

Yes, because it takes *weeks* to draft a resignation letter...

It does take several minutes, at least, and requires a word processor and a printer. Again, it is funny how they all showed up to the meeting with resignation letters in their pockets.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Sir_Lewk]

The cameras in people's homes are a UK Gov plan that the councils have no choice but to follow - blame the cabinet for that cracking idea

There is always an alternative choice, though it may not be the most pleasant of things to think about. Us American's kicked your government to the curb over a few tax disputes (and a few other issues). Placing cameras in private citizens' homes seem to me like a much bigger issue.

You guys could at least throw a few riots or something. And no, angry postings on slashdot do not count. By excusing this sort of behaviour all you are doing is shifting blame from your government to yourself.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[windex82]

>>One bin full of badly sorted waste can contaminate an entire truck of recyclable material.

Biggest load of BS ever.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[BasilBrush]

The movie Brazil would have been better named "UK" because as they say, nobody does bureaucracy like the English - and they used to say that *before* the Nu Labour "revolution".

You don't know you are born unless you've experienced the bureaucracy in France. In fact in general, compared with other countries, Britons have relatively little to complain about. The only reason most of them THINK they have it so bad is because of their little Britain ignorance of other countries politics.

(Disclaimer: I'm British, but living abroad.)

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[AndyS]

Tunbridge Wells Council collect rubbish every 2 weeks, and on the alternate week collect compostable waste and (paper) recycling.

Or at least, they did 3 years ago. I doubt it's changed

It is nowhere near as good as Sevenoaks council (where I live now), which collects rubbish every week, and has the brilliant recycling bags, which are everywhere now. They also have excellent recycling statistics.

Most of it comes from the fact that councils have to pay heavy fees to landfill rubbish, whereas they can make money (or at least lose less) on recycling. Thus they want to try and encourage people to recycle where possible. This ties into the fact that people have so little respect for local council elections that they elect people who really have no clue about democracy or using the media. The fact that they don't work on shaming people into recycling more, and applying pressure to local shops (perhaps on the threat of higher rates or otherwise) into providing better facilities (say a discount for using bags, or a charge) instead (which is very easy to explain to council tax payers), or even for the stronger suggestions actually put it to a public vote if they so choose, which wouldn't be too tricky.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes: Just look at how many PCs have Windows pre-installed.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

You used the term Nu Labour, therefore your arguments are totally invalid

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[PReDiToR]

I've heard of no councils that have reduced bin collection to every 2 weeks - only certain 'luxury pickups' like garden waste (leaves, hedge trimmings etc.) and certain recycling pickups; so definite citation needed here

Our bins (somewhere up north) alternate black one week, garden/bottles/cardboard the next. This is the standard for most of the City.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite. Anyone worth listening to knows that ZaNu Labour has been the "in" term for a least a year now.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I've heard of no councils that have reduced bin collection to every 2 weeks - only certain 'luxury pickups' like garden waste (leaves, hedge trimmings etc.) and certain recycling pickups; so definite citation needed here

Credibility fail. Literally five seconds with Google would show you that this practice has become commonplace across the UK in recent years, usually against public opinion. The details of which recycling is collected vary by local council, but reducing general rubbish collections to biweekly is almost always involved.

This does make things somewhat unpleasant in terms of smells and pests at certain times of year. IME, the worse problem is that it means if a council miss your collection one week, you wind up with an entire month of rubbish to go in the (typically small) bin, which just doesn't fit. Then the council may refuse to collect excess waste (or you get fined via the legal system), and often there is no useful process of appeal: if the bin men say your bin wasn't out, that's it, even if it clearly was and they've made the same mistake several times already. I'm writing from personal experience, but I'm hardly the only one who's mentioned this problem on local forums around where I live.

The man wasn't arrested for leaving his bin open - he was fined, for over-filling his bin. It was a bit specific to the letter of the law, but its not outrageous to draw the line where they did

That rather depends on whether the council are doing a decent job otherwise, doesn't it? As I noted above, they frequently don't, but now instead of it being their problem, it has legally become yours.

There are numerous other minor abuses going on, e.g., if you get home from work on collection day and find one of your recycling bins/boxes hasn't come back, you can get another one free, but some places charge a lot of money to replace the general waste bin under the same circumstances. Once again, containers not being put back outside your home after collection is a common problem—we've had four or five instances in the past couple of years—and to a household on a low income, the cost of replacement just so they can use the bin service they're already paying through the nose for via Council Tax, is a lot of money.

Defenders of such policies usually seem to mumble something about not having hypothecated taxation, so just because we have a dedicated Council Tax that goes to our local authorities and just because those local authorities are legally responsible for providing waste collection services, that doesn't mean you're entitled to actually get a working service or any minimum standards just because you pay them thousands of pounds a year in tax. Seriously, I've been told this many times, and it seems to be the best they've got. What happened to no taxation without representation? Why aren't our representatives up in arms over this sort of failure to provide essential basic services?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Filthio]

We're concatenating all the different roles and responsibilities of councils here. It's not entirely fair to tar all of them with the same brush. Note that town councillors are not civil servants, but unpaid volunteers. Admittedly, they get expenses for their work, but essentially they are acting in person, not as employees. Civil servants by contrast are employees who work for central government, not local. And town councils are not usually responsible for waste collection or planning, either.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you meant elicit. But don't let me get in the way of a pun

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[estarriol]

The cameras in people's homes are a UK Gov plan that the councils have no choice but to follow - blame the cabinet for that cracking idea

There is always an alternative choice, though it may not be the most pleasant of things to think about. Us American's kicked your government to the curb over a few tax disputes (and a few other issues). Placing cameras in private citizens' homes seem to me like a much bigger issue.

You guys could at least throw a few riots or something. And no, angry postings on slashdot do not count. By excusing this sort of behaviour all you are doing is shifting blame from your government to yourself.

Three big flaws in your argument here even at a casual glance:-

1) The proto-Americans had the advantage of an ocean between them and the people they were rebelling against, and the advantage of being on home territory against an enemy who had generally never even been to the rebels' continent. The situation would have been radically different if the American rebels were living in Clapham.

2) It's not "Us Americans" who rebelled at all - you personally had nothing at all to do with it - so it's rather precious of you to advocate that others risk their lives to do something that I suspect you have never done yourself.

3) The modern USA is exactly the sort of imperialist superpower that England was back then.

Overall, the pretense that modern Americans are some kind of ninja rebel outfit who would overthrow their government at the first sign of totalitarianism isn't helping anyone, especially when you sit in your comfy chair behind your (no doubt very rebellious) warrior keyboard and advocate that others risk their lives.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree entirely. There's this meme going around that holds that if newspapers die, investigative journalism will vanish from the face of the earth.
I think this case could well serve as a counter example.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, in St Andrews, Fife council used to collect paper (blue bin), garden waste (brown bin) and general waste (black bin) every week. As of last year they now collect each every two weeks (paper/garden one week and the general waste the other week). The reason given was to encourage recycling, but of course the real reason is to save money by halving collections.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[tkw954]

[Writing a resignation letter] does take several minutes, at least, and requires a word processor and a printer.

Yeah, before the C64, it was impossible for anyone to quit their job!

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Idiomatick]

He isn't exactly interviewing hezbolah members in lebanon or sneaking into closed door sessions in russian government. If you do look at his blog it is based on things that you would see on cspan. AP and reuters don't do that many local news bits. So this doesn't overlap at all.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[lennier]

"The movie Brazil would have been better named "UK" because as they say, nobody does bureaucracy like the English "

Well, it wasn't *about* Brazil... so yes. Duh.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to put your mind at rest the blogger in question never called them on the phone at any time of the day or night. However, he did send them each a questionaire with ten questions. I would suggest that sending the councillors a questionaire is hardly the action of someone irrational.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[pbhj]

I've heard of no councils that have reduced bin collection to every 2 weeks - only certain 'luxury pickups' like garden waste (leaves, hedge trimmings etc.) and certain recycling pickups; so definite citation needed here

Credibility fail. Literally five seconds with Google would show you that this practice has become commonplace across the UK in recent years, usually against public opinion. The details of which recycling is collected vary by local council, but reducing general rubbish collections to biweekly is almost always involved.

This does make things somewhat unpleasant in terms of smells and pests at certain times of year. IME, the worse problem is that it means if a council miss your collection one week, you wind up with an entire month of rubbish to go in the (typically small) bin, which just doesn't fit.

We have bi-weekly collections of waste alternating between compostable and landfill. We have recycling collections weekly. If your waste doesn't fit in your bin then reduce your waste. Shut the lid on the bin, compost food waste, voilà no bad smells.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[NickFortune]

He isn't exactly interviewing hezbolah members in lebanon or sneaking into closed door sessions in russian government

Personally, I'd have thought that investigative journalism was where someone investigated something, and then wrote about it. I don't really see where international espionage like activities form a necessary part of that.

AP and reuters don't do that many local news bits. So this doesn't overlap at all.

I take it you mean "there's no overlap at all with Reuters and AP, because they don't do local news", and not "Reuters and AP don't do local news, therefore this doesn't overlap with investigative journalism at all". I'm not disputing the former.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[fotoguzzi]

Not sure if you are trolling, but did you complain to Mr Mercer about how much his story sucks? http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Council-removes-barber-shop-sign.5748230.jp

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[fotoguzzi]

Well, Google Street view apparently never made it down Chapel Street in Leigh. They were possibly blocked by that egregious barber pole.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I've not spent 5 seconds with Google

Perhaps you should. In the time it took you to write those words, you could instead have typed "bi-weekly bin collection UK", clicked the search button, and found numerous articles immediately, from all over the country, showing the current situation. (I'd find you some summary statistics, but strangely, neither local councils nor the central government people promoting this arrangement are going out of their way to acknowledge how widespread it has become and the level of dissatisfaction it has caused.)

I have spent almost 30 years living in the UK. I have friends in virtually every region of the country and can tell you that I know no-one who has bi-weekly general waste collection

You have friends within virtually every local council area in the country? Is that like having 600 Facebook "friends" or something?

Or are you trying to generalise from one person's limited experience—your own—and assuming that just because you haven't experienced this at all, no-one else has either?

I wouldn't call 4 or 5 instances a common problem in, at least, over 100 collections.

You might if each of those occasions meant that for the corresponding type of waste you had no collection for a month, and possibly for another 2–4 weeks more depending on how long it took for a replacement to be delivered since the collection people won't accept any non-standard containers for "health and safety" reasons. Put another way, someone with that failure rate has sub-standard waste collection for approximately 50% of the year.

Also, please give evidence of low income families being required to pay for a replacement for a bin that the council lost.

In my city, as far as I've been told by the council, everyone has to pay to get their black (general waste) bin replaced if it goes missing for any reason. The low income part is only relevant because if you've got around £50 to spare it's an irritation while if you've got around £50 to buy food this week it's a bit more than that.

However, if any of the various kinds of recycling bin or box used in our area go missing, the council replaces them free of charge, albeit often with a delay before the new one is delivered.

Council Tax (really, more than £2,000 a year? Where do you live?)

In a detached house in East Anglia. Ours isn't quite that much (though it's not far off these days), but I think one or two bands further and you're past that mark, and last time I checked we were actually a little below the national average rates for each band.

I'm not saying bin collection is perfect, but you seem to have gone way over the top in your post.

I'm biased, but then again, I've also been repeatedly screwed. Our Council Tax has gone up while the level of service has gone down. We've had so many missed collections that formal complaints resulted in the collection people having to call a supervisor every time they wanted to mark one of our bins as not being put out. And while we personally have never lost the one bin you'd have to pay for, we've had the other one not come back on collection day twice, and as I write this we have neither of the two boxes we should have any more and the Council won't replace them because they're moving to a new system with a third bin instead in a few weeks, so basically for about two months we are missing half of our collections.

This sort of mess is precisely the kind of thing normal people with real lives and time-consuming jobs shouldn't have to worry about, yet here I am, so annoyed by it that I'm debating the subject with a stranger on Slashdot. I shudder to think how much time I've used chasing up the council each time something has gone wrong. This is the sort of stuff that should Just Work, and it's what local councils are for. If they're

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

If your waste doesn't fit in your bin then reduce your waste. Shut the lid on the bin, compost food waste, voilà no bad smells.

That's cute, except that we don't get to control how supermarkets pack everyday items, which is where most of our non-recyclable waste comes from; the size of the bins around here is rather arbitrary, and in most cases is based on what people used to have for a weekly collection (with the recycling arrangements roughly the same before and since); not everyone has somewhere for composting or any use for the compost afterwards; and so on, and so on.

I'm afraid you sound a bit like some of our local councillors, who from their large, detached houses with ample back gardens and off-road areas to keep their bins and boxes other than on collection days, with officials who keep them updated as part of their job on what goes where among the different containers, who dine on high quality fresh food bought from a variety of local shops, can't quite understand why people living in a block of flats, with about 10 square-metres of garden area in total, who keep not getting the information about what goes where for collection that the council jobsworths say they keep sending out, and who buy whatever economy food they can best afford from the local supermarket, are annoyed by all the arrangements that would require physics-defying ingenuity just to avoid literally breaking the law, never mind actually getting the rubbish collected.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

investigative journalism died, so newspapers will vanish from the face of the earth.

There fixed that for ya

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[horza]

You are mixing up bureaucracy and becoming a police state. In France around half the country is employed by the government. Where I live the rubbish is collected from my street every night, and they then wash the street afterwards (every single night). To do the simplest thing I know I have to take a day's holiday as I will inevitably be bounced between departments that will reside opposite ends of the city. If you are a civil servant in France you cannot get fired, no matter how incompetent you are, you get to retire early, and enjoy an awful lot of perks. The dream of most young French people is to one day become a civil servant. Yet in France people are now more free than in England. How things have changed in the past 20 years. I don't get cataloged like a prisoner on remand every time I enter and leave the country. I'm not on a surveillance camera everywhere I walk (except in Monaco, where there are an insane amount). There is no RIPA legislation. There aren't speed cameras everywhere, though they are starting to appear. It's become a more pleasant place to be.

The vindictive low-level councilors haven't changed in the past couple of decades, and I wouldn't surprised if half the stories you come across weren't caused by a vindictive neighbor lodging a complaint. Certainly mostly the cases I've seen. The alarming decline of your civil liberties is a far more pressing concern. If you haven't committed a crime and society does not need to be protected from you, then you should be able to travel where you want and when you want. You should be able to say whatever you want outside of slander and incitement that may cause harm. And you should have a right to privacy. These things are disappearing in the UK. Having visited eastern Europe, I can tell you boy are you going to miss them when they are gone.

Phillip.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing about something does not make you a journalist.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Fishy]

Let me give you a hint, the Daily Mail is more National Inquirer than the Washington Post. Tabloid stories are seldom actually true.

Out of your list a little more research would have shown that you are about 80% incorrect.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[NickFortune]

Writing about something does not make you a journalist.

Of course it doesn't. But you're going to need to supply a definition of your own if you want to show that this particular blogger isn't functioning as a journalist in this case

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[NickFortune]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Well done. Do you have any more trite and self-evident cliches you'd care to substitute for reasoned argument, or should I just get on with ignoring you?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Jedi Alec]

You don't know you are born unless you've experienced the bureaucracy in France. In fact in general, compared with other countries, Britons have relatively little to complain about. The only reason most of them THINK they have it so bad is because of their little Britain ignorance of other countries politics.

Hmm, I have experienced said bureaucracy, and on the whole it took very little trouble to get all the necessary paperwork sorted. Anecdotal evidence obviously, but I found that, like people everywhere really, if you approach french civil servants in a civil(pun intended) manner and appeal to their ego a bit, they're more than willing to put in a proper job.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

What a twit you are, why not read the blog first and find out the facts before saying such ridiculous things like :

" I'd be willing to bet that at least some level of phone calls to their homes at all hours and perhaps a few loud townhall meetings were involved"

It does your publication no credit at all !

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[BasilBrush]

I didn't say french civil servants are lazy or surly. I referred to the bureaucracy: rules, forms, hurdles to jump. No amount of study of "How To Win Friends and Influence People" is going to get you a personal short cut.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

This does make things somewhat unpleasant in terms of smells and pests at certain times of year. IME, the worse problem is that it means if a council miss your collection one week, you wind up with an entire month of rubbish to go in the (typically small) bin, which just doesn't fit. Then the council may refuse to collect excess waste (or you get fined via the legal system), whinge whinge whinge

How about, um, reducing the level of waste you produce? Recycle, compost, don't buy goods with excessive packaging (or leave the excess packaging at the supermarket for them to deal with), don't buy more food than you can eat before it goes off, etc.

Our household produces less than one bag full of waste each week, our bin can fit 5 or 6 full bags.

The funniest thing I saw was a TV news report on bi-weekly bin collections where a woman was complaining that she couldn't recycle cans because they'd sit there in her kitchen smelling all week before they were collected. How much effort does it take to wash out a can?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

How about, um, reducing the level of waste you produce?

Please see my response to the other person who replied to my previous post.

Our household produces less than one bag full of waste each week, our bin can fit 5 or 6 full bags.

Our household also typically produces less than a full bag of non-recyclable waste each week, but our black bins would only fit about 3 bags; the recycling bins have about twice this volume. That means if they miss a collection, or even if you have more waste one week for some reason (some of us do invite friends around occasionally!), you simply can't fit everything in the bin.

The funniest thing I saw was a TV news report on bi-weekly bin collections where a woman was complaining that she couldn't recycle cans because they'd sit there in her kitchen smelling all week before they were collected. How much effort does it take to wash out a can?

To wash out one can? Not much.

To wash out every can, wash out every plastic bottle, clean all your cardboard, separate all your food waste and wrap it in newspaper, buy a newspaper you otherwise wouldn't every couple of days just so you have something to wrap with, remove the windows from all the windowed envelopes going in paper recycling, separate out the impersonal junk mail that can go in one box from the junk mail with name and address details that should be shredded and then placed in a different box... Well, now it's starting to become an unreasonable hassle. And all of those things are based on the direct advice from our local council (and, in the case of shredding, the police).

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

To wash out every can

Easily done at the time the can is used.

wash out every plastic bottle

Easily done at the time the bottle is used.

, clean all your cardboard

WTF are you doing to dirty the cardboard? If you mess something up, clean up after yourself. It's part of the fucking job.

, separate all your food waste and wrap it in newspaper

Easily done at the time the food is prepared/before washing up after a meal.

, buy a newspaper you otherwise wouldn't every couple of days just so you have something to wrap with

Oh come on - every house in the UK gets at least one freesheet a week.

, remove the windows from all the windowed envelopes going in paper recycling

If this is a requirement, push back on the council.

, separate out the impersonal junk mail that can go in one box from the junk mail with name and address details that should be shredded and then placed in a different box

Solution: shred it all.

... Well, now it's starting to become an unreasonable hassle. And all of those things are based on the direct advice from our local council (and, in the case of shredding, the police).

Advice, or requirement? If it's advice, just say "thanks for the input" and continue on your way.

Really, not keeping on top of this is akin to littering the streets because you cannot be arsed to put your litter in the provided bins, or take it home with you. It isn't hard you know.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Coward]

Henry Kissinger once said "University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." I think this transfers well to local government. Consider a five hour debate on whether to amend the official title of the person responsible for maintaining the gymnasium, followed by a snap vote while the leader of one faction is off at a conference, and compare it to a local government process for deciding whether to replace the school chalk boards with dry-erase boards.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[tehcyder]

In America, a lot of that crap would get you shot, I don't care if you're from the "government" or not.

Surely even in America it's not a valid defence to a murder charge to say that someone was looking through your bins so they deserved it?

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[biryokumaru]

As long as you have a sign and it is clearly marked that trespassers will be shot.

Re:Can we get rid of the US Congress so easily?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I honestly can't work out if you're trolling or satirising.

Revealed as feeble...

[CaptainOfSpray]

And what prevented those councillors from telling their side of the story?

Clearly they had no real response to this blogger, and so just folded.

Leaves me wondering whether they were guilty or merely incompetent.

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[petes_PoV]

And what prevented those councillors from telling their side of the story?.

Probably the fact that they're not intersted in blogging or using the internet. That doesn't make them web-illiterate, just as not having in interest in racing cars means you're a bad driver: just that they have neither the eloquence, nor ability, time or maybe even the low standards needed to engage in a war of words with someone who obviously has his own personal issues with these guys.

After all, they're only volunteers, standing for a town council, why should that require blogging or P.R. skills?

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[CaptainOfSpray]

They are politicians - part of the required skill set is media-savvy. Also, the Internet is not the only medium.

And they do get paid - this is a town council, not a parish council. Quote from a Mail Online story (yes I know) "Local councillors pocketed pay rises of double the level of inflation last year, a study has revealed. Nearly 20,000 picked up an average of £9,300 in 'allowances', the basic pay they get from town halls. In some local authorities, the sum was more than £20,000 a year."

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[abigsmurf]

There side of the story is already in the public domain through the minutes of public meetings and various stuff available under FOIA requests.

Councillors simply can't respond to random militant bloggers on a level playing field. For one they can't use the language bloggers use (if they like being employed that is). Even if the councillor does use civil language, getting in a public debate with someone that hostile not only will look bad (regardless of if they win it or not) , it will add legitimacy to that blog.

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[arb phd slp]

And what prevented those councillors from telling their side of the story?

  Clearly they had no real response to this blogger, and so just folded.

Leaves me wondering whether they were guilty or merely incompetent.

The same thing that keeps Glenn Beck from using his extensive media access to refute the story that he raped and murdered a young girl in 1990.

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[biryokumaru]

Clearly they should have trolled his comments.

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[MatB]

Nope--Town Councils are equivalent to Parish Councils, it's just a different name. They're unpaid. The town is not a Primary Local Authority, it's in one of the Somerset unitaries, I forget which. (I've lived in the towns of Brixham and Totnes, and now live near Hebden Bridge and Todmorden, all have Town Councils, none of the Cllrs are paid).

Having said that, I agree with your overall point--they should've been able to respond to what was said, it's not like you can't issue a press release.

Re:Revealed as feeble...

[Fishy]

"(yes I know)"

If you know its bull, why are you quoting it?

(and yes the story says "town halls" when actually 99% of what its talking about is county/district councillors, so it doesn't apply at all to this story)

CounCILLors!

[earthloop]

They're councillors. As in, people on a council.

Counsellors are a different breed of people altogether, like Troi.

Re:CounCILLors!

[gzipped_tar]

Yeah, Troi was really "a different breed"...

Re:CounCILLors!

[Sockatume]

I dunno, standing up in front of everyone and stating the bleeding obvious like it's some sort of startling revelation sounds like a councillor too.

Re:CounCILLors!

[ShooterNeo]

---Counsellors are a different breed of people altogether, like Troi.---

I think you misspelled "prostitute."

Re:CounCILLors!

[Anonymous Coward]

They're councillors. As in, people on a council. Counsellors are a different breed of people altogether, like Troi.

That's because Slashdot editors are a different breed of people altogether, as well. <ducks>

Re:CounCILLors!

[Anonymous Coward]

---Counsellors are a different breed of people altogether, like Troi.---

I think you misspelled "prostitute."

How DARE you insult my lovely large-breasted empath. Just because she is a people person with lots of cleavage and not a geek like you doesn't give you the right to call her and her bosom names. LEAVE TROI ALONE!

Re:CounCILLors!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't feed the Trois!

Re:CounCILLors!

[oldhack]

I'm totally with you. Troi was a good councilor.

Re:CounCILLors!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the balanced binary tree of Troi fandom. We Anonymous Coward-nodes shall defend our favorite large-breasted empath till we shall turn to red-black. Resistance is futile!

On the other hand, it's Somerton

[Kupfernigk]

Disclaimer: I live in the Somerton and Frome constituency. The East side (where I live) is part of the 21st century, The politics is mainly Lib Dem (the only mainstream UK progressive party- and no, I am not a member.) The south-west side is deeply conservative and rural, and the local grandees have a huge sense of entitlement. They think that they have a right to run things and nobody should be allowed to criticise them. (They are also the area's Nimbys - they try to block industry or anything that will modernise the area and provide well-paid jobs for non-landowners.)

Now someone thinks they have the right to comment on Council decisions - and the toys get thrown out of the pram.

This is not about bloggers. It's about rural Conservatives finding their views called into question. It would be exactly the same if it was a campaigning newspaper, or if the people in subsidised housing started a resident's group and sent someone to see what happened in Council meetings.

Re:On the other hand, it's Somerton

[CaptainOfSpray]

Mod parent up, Insightful

Re:On the other hand, it's Somerton

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds right to me. How anyone (BBC included) can reduce the interests and actions of 100+ locals down to the words of one blogger is an odd bit of misinterpretation. At best M&B is a lightning rod, an articulation of sentiment that is apparently shared by a significant number of others. So any assignment of responsibility is about like blaming the messenger.

Re:On the other hand, it's Somerton

[twostix]

Really...because from what I read (rather than what you postulate) of the story it appears that the council members were trying to push through various commercial and industrial ventures that would benefit themselves privately (wow very "21st century"!) and the blogger was calling them out on it.

So it would be the blogger who was the "rural conservative" (apparently just about the worst person in the world in some areas of the Internet it would seem) and the council members who where in the "21st" century with their impropriety, open corruption, torching his car, etc...

Whats rather funny is how the reality appears to be completely the opposite that you claim it is, yet you're at +5 because you somehow make it sound like those nasty rural conservatives are the councilors and it's a cool twenty something urban dwelling blogger who's doing the good work to bring them down. Certainly in my mind after reading your post I had the Councilors pegged as old white "rural conservative" fat cats. A fantasy which suits the metro demographic of this site far better than the reality it would appear given the current moderation of your completely bullshit made up post.

Re:On the other hand, it's Somerton

[khallow]

Heh, -1 not condescending enough for Slashdot. And you're still living in the 21st century? Come on. That was so 8 years ago.

Re:On the other hand, it's Somerton

[C0R1D4N]

the local grandees have a huge sense of entitlement. (They are also the area's Nimbys Now someone thinks they have the right to comment on Council decisions - and the toys get thrown out of the pram

SPEAK ENGLISH!

This blogger was lucky

[CdBee]

In the UK its fairly easy to get sued for making written statements about people unless you are scrupulously accurate, and having looked at the blog in question he's taken a fair few risks..

Probably the traditional British tolerance for ecentricity is the only thing preventing the targets of his jibes from crucifying him in a civil court...

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

They are only risks if what he said is materially untrue. Given the orchestrated resignations of most of the council, I suspect they aren't.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[jabithew]

I refer you to the case of Simon Singh v. Assorted Lunatics. What he said was materially true, but he will most likely lose the court case.

Mr Justice Eady has a lot to answer for.

There's more details on the Singh case in the current Private Eye, for any Brits out there.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

It's a difficult case. But I doubt he'll lose.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[hab136]

Truth is not an absolute defense in England. You can say something that is 100% true but still defaming and therefore lose a case.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sick and tired of the bullshit misrepresentation of the case against Mr. Singh. It has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the frankly ridiculous ideas he was attacking.

He used the term 'bogus' which means fraudulent. He essentially called a large group of people liars and frauds without evidence that they were. Some of these idiots may well be frauds but others actually believe in what they are doing and are thus simply morons rather than frauds. I believe he was using the word in the popular American usage for 'bogus' i.e. stupid and incorrect. Unfortunately popular American uses of words don't carry much wait in UK courts. As a journalist he should know to pick his words more carefully.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

You're wrong. Truth is an absolute defence against being sued for libel in England and Wales.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[biryokumaru]

Wow, are you serious? Like, in the UK you can go to court for calling someone "bogus?" Like, fer serious?

The more I hear about your "rights" over there the less I think America is really going down the crapper.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[khallow]

You're wrong. Truth is an absolute defence against being sued for libel in England and Wales.

In the US truth is an absolute defense. But I'm not aware of any location in the UK, including England or Wales where this is true.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Lemming Mark]

I would have said that that meaning of "bogus" is also a popular UK usage (conceivably due to American influence but still...).

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

Sounds like someone's created an urban myth. Of course truth is an absolute defence in the law of England and Wales.

English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual (or individuals) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them. Allowable defenses are justification (i.e. the truth of the statement), fair comment (i.e. whether the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held), and privilege (i.e. whether the statements were made in Parliament or in court, or whether they were fair reports of allegations in the public interest).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

Re:This blogger was lucky

[khallow]

Your quote doesn't support your claim. Truth is allowed as a defense, but it's not an "absolute defense". One just needs to look at the examples given later in the Wikipedia article.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[albacrankie]

The previous poster didn't specifically mention libel, and I think laws of defamation go a little wider than just libel. For example, if you write in a blog that the owner of a shop wears incontinence pads and he loses business because of that, you can be sued, irrespective of whether he wears such items or not. (revealing private information for the sole purpose of defaming) But even in libel cases, "the truth" is not a well-defined concept. In England, the assumption is that the claimant's claim about the facts are correct, and many cases boil down to just the issue of defamation (or reputation management as it is called these days). It's far more difficult for me to prove to a court that homeopathy is hocus pocus than it is for a claimant to show he was damaged by my claims.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

I've provided evidence. You have not. IF you had a case, you be explicit about which "examples" and why.

Meanwhile here's more absolute proof that I'm right. A case summary by the Law Lords.

To an action for defamation truth is an absolute defence.

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:3u0QFtSeHFsJ:oxcheps.new.ox.ac.uk/new/casebook/cases/Cases%2520Chapter%252026/Spring%2520v%2520Guardian%2520Assurance%2520plc%2520and%2520others.doc+england+truth+%22absolute+defence%22&cd=49&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari

It can't get much more clearly stated than that, or by anyone with more authority on what the law in England is. You have swallowed an internet meme that's a myth. You're wrong.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Civil_Disobedient]

Truth is an absolute defence against being sued for libel in England and Wales.

Just to clarify this statement: truth is an absolute defense against libel, it is not for defamation. Libel is a subset of defamation--thus a defamatory statement can be proved true (which would mean it is not a libel) but still be defamatory.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

From another post of mine:

Meanwhile here's more absolute proof that I'm right. A case summary by the Law Lords.

To an action for defamation truth is an absolute defence.

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:3u0QFtSeHFsJ:oxcheps.new.ox.ac.uk/new/casebook/cases/Cases%2520Chapter%252026/Spring%2520v%2520Guardian%2520Assurance%2520plc%2520and%2520others.doc+england+truth+%22absolute+defence%22&cd=49&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari [74.125.77.132]

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Rising Ape]

"Bogus" meaning deliberately fraudulent was not a usage I'd encountered until that case - and I'm British, not American.

The libel laws in the UK are a joke, and are in serious need of reform. At the very least, a libel conviction should require that the statements were not just untrue but deliberately intended to lower someone's reputation for personal gain. That clearly doesn't apply here.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

Just to clarify this statement: truth is an absolute defense against libel, it is not for defamation.

Also wrong. See my quote from the Law Lords elsewhere in the thread.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Ma8thew]

No, In the UK you can go to court for saying something that is untrue. If you accuse someone of something in a public forum, you need to be able to prove it. The normal burden of evidence is reversed because, in the case of libel, the defendant was the original accuser. British libel laws certainly need reform, but I think the intent of the law is sound.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[ffflala]

I believe that in the UK, legal protection in favor of freedom of speech is quite stringent when the speech in question criticizes public officials. There is a qualified privilege that gives UK newspapers similar protection as they have in the US under the 1st Amendment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law#Qualified_privilege

I believe Reynolds v. Times Newsp's Ltd (UK 1999) is one of the more noteworthy cases on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v_Times_Newspapers_Ltd

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Anonymous Coward]

Eccentricity.....not at all my friend. No one can sue you for writing or speaking the truth, its part of our demorcratic right. You obviously do not know these people. Oh! and bye the way, lawyer for these people have looked at his blog. There is no action they can take.......what does that tell you. You would know this if you had actually read the blog.
A Somerton resident.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Civil_Disobedient]

Read more carefully. Defamation and libel are not synonyms. Truth has always been an absolute defense against libel. It is not, however, an absolute defense against defamation.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[Civil_Disobedient]

The one where the court was considering defamation? Yes.

Once again...

Libel and defamation are not the same.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[BasilBrush]

YOU need to read more carefully. Read again what the law lords said truth was an absolute defence against. Hint: Not what you think.

Re:This blogger was lucky

[hab136]

You have swallowed an internet meme that's a myth

I actually got the idea from TV and news. Why do you suppose that the general perception is that truth is not an absolute defense? Was this previously the case?

You speculate incorrectly

[Kupfernigk]

Phone calls at all hours would result in the attention of PC Plod. It's illegal in this country. And townhall meetings are a US phenomenon with no UK equivalent.

Bloated bureaucracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Why 15 councillors for a small rural town (not even a city). My hometown city has only 4 with the mayor casting the tie breaking vote.

Re:Bloated bureaucracy

[Anne Thwacks]

My hometown city has only 4 with the mayor casting the tie breaking vote.

How on earth do you satisfy the local politicians' lust for pocket-lining?

This really is NOT democracy

[petes_PoV]

One person's actions manages to unseat several elected officials

If we believe all the media hype - that this guy's blog did actually have any bearing on the resignations of these people, then it's a bad day for democracy. They had been elected in a legal way, by winning the most votes from the people in their wards. Then one person, decides he doesn't like them and starts a personal assault on them: collectively and individually. Now, it could well be said that these unpaid officials shouldn't have put themselves in the public eye if they aren't prepared to take some heat - but they're really just volunteers (and a lot of them aren't exactly in the prime of life). As a consequence of this continual sniping, they decide they've had enough and quit. So much for giving the electors representation, so much for reflecting the wishes of the people. One person's ability to publicise his personal and (I am told) unfounded views about their personal lives and business interests reduces the democratic process to a farce.

If he objects so much, why didn't he stand for election himself?

Re:This really is NOT democracy

[NickFortune]

If we believe all the media hype - that this guy's blog did actually have any bearing on the resignations of these people, then it's a bad day for democracy.

Much as I appreciate your concern, I think I can set your mind at rest here. Such abuses of the the system are rare and usually confined to the level of local politics. In this day and age, no one at a national level would consider resigning over something so trivial as criticism from the media or public. In fact even such one-time misdemeanors such as being caught outright fiddling expenses, or embarking on a war of aggression that no one on the country wanted are considered cause to resign. Of course, it has occasionally been considered prudent for a minister to step down if the furore should happen at an awkward time, such as shortly before an election. But you may rest assured that in all such cases, the minister in question has been returned to a position of power as soon as the election was safely past.

So as you can see, there really is nothing amiss with the democratic process in the UK.

That said, I do take your point. It really isn't fair of the public to go around making a fuss every time a politicians actions fail to match up with their election promises, seem ill-considered in terms of achieving those objectives, or when they generally fail to comport themselves with the high moral and ethical standards they expect of the general public. If only we as voters would learn to shut our collective gobs, turn a blind eye to such minor matters as dishonesty and hypocrisy and let them get on with the vital business of feathering their nests, I'm sure the world would be a much better place.

Re:This really is NOT democracy

[PsychoSlashDot]

One person's actions manages to unseat several elected officials

Disagree. The blogger's actions didn't unseat them. Their resignation did. There's a world of difference. If the blogger had been able to unseat them despite their wishes and the wishes of their constituents, that would be a break in democracy. Instead the blogger was able to convince them and/or their constituents that their tenure should end. That's as democratic as can be. If the blog entries were based on lies and nobody discovered that it's an entirely different issue.

My point is there's a vast difference between one person filing letters of resignation for a bunch of people and everyone accepting them because the process "says so" or something equally unlikely and a "journalist" swaying opinion.

Re:This really is NOT democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

One person's actions manages to unseat several elected officials

If we believe all the media hype - that this guy's blog did actually have any bearing on the resignations of these people, then it's a bad day for democracy. They had been elected in a legal way, by winning the most votes from the people in their wards. Then one person, decides he doesn't like them and starts a personal assault on them: collectively and individually. Now, it could well be said that these unpaid officials shouldn't have put themselves in the public eye if they aren't prepared to take some heat - but they're really just volunteers (and a lot of them aren't exactly in the prime of life). As a consequence of this continual sniping, they decide they've had enough and quit. So much for giving the electors representation, so much for reflecting the wishes of the people. One person's ability to publicise his personal and (I am told) unfounded views about their personal lives and business interests reduces the democratic process to a farce.

If he objects so much, why didn't he stand for election himself?

The the council members couldn't stand up to one asshole with a blog, they did the correct thing and resigned.

Getting elected just give gave the right and the authority to do the job, it doesn't endow either competence or ethics. Nor doese it grant someone the ability to do their job without scrutiny. If you somehow manage to ever get yourself elected, somebody is not going to agree with your decisions, and you're going to get called on it. And if you don't have the balls to stand up to them, you better quit while you're on the council, because the higher you go, the more public your bullshit becomes. Nobody outside of the locals actually gives a shit if a city councilor makes a booty call out of the country, but when a governor does it, his face is all over the national media.

Re:This really is NOT democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in North Central Indiana, it is very common, in the plethora of small towns and counties, for people to run unopposed year after year after year. That my friend, is not democracy. In fact, this is year after year of horribly bad days for democracy.

Ballots should be modified to have a none of the above choice. Sure, Stan Good 'ol Boy might still be in office next year after receiving 3 votes out of 6,000 cast, but an opposing candidate is more likely to show up next time around. Even if the populace were smart enough to realize they don't have to fill in the circle next to Stan's name just because he is the only choice, I would not trust the officials to not go ahead and fill them in on their own.

Then again, maybe not. A larger town in the area elected a democratic Assessor in a Republican stronghold. She has tried to clean things up...quit using piece of crap, overpriced software from a company which wines and dines office holders for example. The county commissioners have been dragging her through the mud since she took office; for quite some time, she was in the news everyday for something new and petty she was being attacked on. Sadly, the single TV station in the area nor the newspaper (to my knowledge on the latter) has aired any objections to this outrageous behavior.

For the record, I have long considered myself a Conservative and I don't believe for a minute that the bad behavior above is limited to Republicans...if likewise small minded Democrats held the majority, their behavior would be the same in these parts.

A link to the blog please..

[mehrotra.akash]

A link to the blog please..
that would be as useful or even more useful than a Wikipedia,a BBC and 2 XKCD links

 

Re:A link to the blog please..

[MichaelSmith]

from the article

Re:A link to the blog please..

[CarpetShark]

What would be good would be if news organisations like the BBC didn't censor URLs from their reports. "A damning government report has been leaked to 'the world wide web'" is not useful information. They might as well say "A street in the city has been cordoned off." Gee, thanks.

Re:A link to the blog please..

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about the international edition of BBC News but here in the UK, there is often a link on the righthand side of the page to the external sites referenced in the article. This keeps them all in one neat place. I think it could be to appear like a newspaper article and also make the reading a little bit easier.

Re:A link to the blog please..

[mehrotra.akash]

thanks 2 the replies below, i got the link, but shouldn't it be in the summary itself rather then having to go to a particular link in the summary, and then looking for the link , not in the article, but rather mixed up with other links in the sidebar..

How is this news for nerds???

[syousef]

The dillusion that bloggers have the power to tease elected officials into resigning is laughable. This isn't news. This isn't even fit for idle.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[MichaelSmith]

But its just like Watergate, on a slightly smaller scale.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[jonbryce]

This is just a modern day local newspaper. The idea that the media can bring down corrupt local or national officials is nothing new.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[HangingChad]

The dillusion that bloggers have the power to tease elected officials into resigning is laughable.

I think you're wrong. At least on this side of the pond the name-calling, and relentlessly negative smear tactics and outright lies that have become the new norm in politics keeps a lot good people out of public office.

So, yeah, in a small town environment where people are volunteering or have other options about where to spend their time could quite possibly get fed up and quit. If the locals here were mocking our volunteer fire department, I can almost guarantee the place would be empty in a week.

I mean look at our president. A fairly decent, well educated person trying to get health care coverage for poor people. For that crime against humanity he's been compared to Hitler, called a Nazi and portrayed as a socialist even though most of the rock throwers wouldn't know a socialist if one bit them on the butt. They even have their own 24 hour tabloid news channel to air their smear and fear. Overall, I'm afraid we're creating an environment where decent, well-intended people laugh at the idea of being a public servant. Sometimes I think we deserve leaders like Bush.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[Jiro]

Because if we had a leader like Bush, we'd never have to worry about having him compared to Hitler or called a Nazi.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[tomhudson]

Because if we had a leader like Bush, we'd never have to worry about having him compared to Hitler or called a Nazi.

Better be careful - the nazis will sue you for defamation for comparing them to Bush.

Re:How is this news for nerds???

[garcia]

The dillusion that bloggers have the power to tease elected officials into resigning is laughable. This isn't news. This isn't even fit for idle.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you're the one that is delusional. Political blogging definitely has a place in making things happen, especially at the hyperlocal level. While this particular article is a bit more than I would expect, I have watched local policy change--on a dime--due to what is said to the public about local government on the Internet.

It used to be that local governance ran in a bubble with open meetings being unattended and no one reading any reports of what happens except for a blurb in the local media--which are heavily influenced by the councilmembers themselves. Now, with bloggers at the helm, a new amount of information and commentary is provided allowing for the public to weigh in and get better informed faster.

So, take some time and check out your own hyperlocal political blogosphere, you might find out some things about the city council that you never knew and probably should have. Good luck.

So?

[Anonymous Coward]

One person's actions manages to unseat several elected officials

You say that like it's a bad thing. If he was able to shame them into resigning, sounds to me like they had something to be ashamed of.

Re:So?

[petes_PoV]

It is a bad thing - an extremely bad thing. There are processes for removing councilors who are doing a bad job, acting illegally or who lose the trust of the people who voted for them. Just like it's bad to have national newspapers that sway elections when the owner decides he/she "likes" one party over another.
When this item hit the TV news (some days ago) the overwhelming view from the resigning councilors was not that they had any skeletons in their cupboards, or had been corrupt or done anything wrong - simply that they didn't feel the need to give up their time, only to be criticised by some guy, so they quit.

If this guy wants to change the local council he should stand for election himself - not snipe at the volunteer members from the safety of an internet site. However, he's still only entitled to one seat on the council, not to force the removal or resignation of many. The anti-democratic part of this is the blogger NOT using the due process to change the council members.

Re:So?

[rohan972]

It is a bad thing - an extremely bad thing. There are processes for removing councilors who are doing a bad job, acting illegally or who lose the trust of the people who voted for them.

According to the blog they resigned to "rapturous applause" from the citizens. It was one man blogging, apparently leading to lots of face to face discussions. If they could refute the things being said about them I'm sure they could have done so instead of resigning.

So it would seem that they didn't resign because of one man, they resigned because of what many people found out from one man. It was the many that caused them to resign.

Re:So?

[smoker2]

You are wrong on so many levels. Firstly, they are not volunteers. They get paid for every meeting they attend and they get expenses paid for any work they undertake as a council member. Secondly, are you suggesting that democracy means you cannot exercise free speech ? Thirdly, are you suggesting that elected officials, who presumably had to canvas support in order to get elected, are so unsure of their position that a single person can force them to resign without so much as a struggle ? And lastly, if you as a member of the electorate exposed a scandal involving the council and publicised it, are you then guilty of something or are you doing the electorate a favour ?

Seriously, if they resigned over one persons so called ravings, then they didn't have much authority to start with, not to mention cahones. I know that if I found financial irregularities in a councils spending and could reliably document it, it would be my duty to inform the electorate. I have no interest in being a councillor, but that doesn't mean they can get away with it. Why should I invest time and money in making myself electable merely to point out the illegal activities of others ?

I repeat, if the whole council resigns over 1 persons unsubstantiated rant, then either they have got skeletons to hide or they are worthless as politicians. Politicians argue all the time, that's what they do. But one non elected person can force their resignation ? Please .... Are they going to take their toys and go home ?

Re:So?

[jcr]

There are processes for removing councilors who are doing a bad job, acting illegally or who lose the trust of the people who voted for them.

And criticizing them so they resign in shame doesn't qualify, in your opinion? Isn't this precisely why the citizens have the freedom of speech, to criticize their government?

-jcr

Re:So?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Exactly. I'm sure they have nothing to hide.

*rolls eyes*

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cahones? I think you meant "cojones".

Re:So?

[abigsmurf]

Actually you're wrong.

What town councillors get varies per county but it's not a wage you can live on. Lots of councils only pay expenses but a typical 'wage' for a regular councillor is £5500 a year. That's only about £1000 more than if they did no work at all and claimed benefits. Council leaders get a proper wage of around £12,000 but that's still only comparable to a McDonalds worker.

These are not jobs done for a living, these are largely volunteers who are getting just enough money to ensure they're not starving. They're not in it to earn money, they're in it to be active in the community.

What can they do to silence this blogger? Take him to court and spend months and insane amounts of money to silence him? All to make the job they're supposed to be doing because they enjoy it tolerable again? Who's to say after a long court case, they win and then this blogger is replaced by another one?

These are not career politicians, they do not expect these kinds of non-stop vicious personal attacks on them when they've done nothing especially wrong.

Re:So?

[greenius]

I just checked the details on our town council and it says: "The Council has adopted a scheme of Members’ Allowances, under which members are paid £680 per year towards the performance of their duties."

That is just £13 a week! and could easily be used up just in transport/petrol costs getting to various meetings and events.

At the town council level, they are pretty much volunteers who give up their own time to help their local community. The problem is many people are not aware of the democratic process. When local elections come along, they vote for a national party instead of for a local person to represent them, or they don't bother voting at all. They also prefer to complain rather than be part of the process and stand for election themselves. If you don't vote or you are not prepared to stand for election yourself or propose someone else who you do agree with, then you have no right to complain.

Re:So?

[malkavian]

"found out" and "were told by" are two very different phrases.
In many walks of life, they end up very much the same in many ways. People "are told by" someone that something happens, or that people are members of something or other. And without ever substantiating it, people react en masse. This can make life very difficult for people who have this directed at them. Even if you have a side of the story that is actually the valid one, and it's diametrically opposed to the story that originally inflamed "the masses", you end up having to fight it on a one by one basis, with people who are already dead set against you.
Now, if you take time to substantiate an accusation, you may "find out" that the story is, or isn't true, and you can act accordingly.
However, in 90+% cases (as a ballpark figure), people are too lazy to "find out" and "being told by" suffices.
Whether the allegations are true or not.. I don't know.. I don't have time to "find out". "Being told by" the media doesn't really cut it for me, so yes, I'm vaguely interested to see what falls out the other end of this, but I'm not about to decide one way or another for myself, as I honestly don't know enough to have a valid opinion.

Councillors are not career politicians

[chico_the_chihuahua]

Many town councillors work with a limited renumeration, which is enough to cover their out-of-pocket expenses, and perhaps a bit more, but certainly not enough to live on. They will also be full time professionals in another occupation as their long term career, or perhaps be retired and living off a pension.

Although elected, they will also regard their work as giving something back to the community, so I can understand why harassment might make them decide that it's not worth volunteering their services any more. It costs money to pursue libel cases, and it's unlikely this blogger has any coin to pay damages anyway, so it's easier to leave the situation.

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[sa1lnr]

Haha, so wrong on all fronts.

"The rise in allowances comes at a time of rapidly growing pay for town hall officials, the most senior of whom now earn more than £200,000."

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23394395-councillors-pay-up-by-twice-the-inflation-rate.do

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[abigsmurf]

An article from a Daily Mail group article (which based on the date, that was) isn't the best of sources.

There are around 22,000 councillors in the UK. Based on the figure the Evening Standard gives, that's an average of around £8,000 per councillor. However considering more important council members such as council leaders and members for large cities (which are far more involved positions and involve much more responsiblity), the typical councillor wage is £4-5K. That's 1/3rd of what is classed as living in poverty.

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[Anonymous Coward]

Councillors != career politicians?

my arse..they *are*, but not to the same degree as their parliamentarian cohorts.

Many town councillors work with a limited renumeration, which is enough to cover their out-of-pocket expenses, and perhaps a bit more, but certainly not enough to live on. They will also be full time professionals in another occupation as their long term career, or perhaps be retired and living off a pension.

Oh, what a rosy tinted view of these parasites you have sirrah!, Many != all, I'll point out.

From personal experience, they're naught but a bunch of, to use the terminology from 'Atlas Shrugged', moochers and looters (and much as I find Ayn Rand funny and tedious in equal measure, she did have some valid points about some of the social parasites that exist in our society)

Local councillors are like fleas, compared to the more tick like MPs/MEPs/MSPs/TDs/Senators/whatever, however, it doesn't matter in my mind as to what degree they do so, they're both examples of disease ridden bloodsucking parasitic bastards.

Planning, and land speculation seem to be the most 'profitable' sideline these local scheißköpfe (with apologies if the German is incorrect) get involved in. Take one example from immediate family, try to get planning permission to build houses on bit of land, permission refused due to amenity and other such kind of BS excuses, councillor has 'quiet word' about 'partnership', gets told where to get off, eventually land gets sold without planning permission for housing at a reduced price, 'consortium' who buy it suddenly and quite magically get permission to build more houses then we'd ever planned for on same plot of land, sell it at large profit to developers..
Or how planning permission was granted to build a bunch of houses on a (very inappropriate) bit of land in a conservation zone?
Or the various deals and schemes being done to try and put public land (and land held in trust for the recreational use of public) into the hands of developers? and the list could go on to detail things like council decisions being made on sectarian grounds, etc etc etc.

Afraid this isn't a new game, my town center was destroyed by the combined machinations of our then local councillors, the MP at the time (and, what a surprise, his relative the developer who got the redevelopment contract..) way back in the late 60's/early 70's. They got fat off it, unlike the poor sods who got a pittance in compensation when their properties were 'stolen' using the legal device known as a CPO.

Although elected, they will also regard their work as giving something back to the community, so I can understand why harassment might make them decide that it's not worth volunteering their services any more. It costs money to pursue libel cases, and it's unlikely this blogger has any coin to pay damages anyway, so it's easier to leave the situation.

Without wishing to appear abusive, what planet are you from?, and can we have some of your 'selfless' councillors?

I've known quite a number of local politicians and councillors over the years, (my mother's cousin was a local 'Lord Mayor' for a number of years ffs),

I'm making a pretty bald statement here, to a man, they were all in it for their own ends.

Any 'community' benefits their terms in office accrued was secondary to both their own aggrandisment and/or to that of their political party (if they belonged to one - If they didn't have an obvious party connection, they usually had 'other' affiliations ).

If there were grounds for libel agin the blogger, believe you me, they would have sued, and the fact that they appear to have gone down the road of trying to intimidate the blogger and his fellow dissidents is indicative of the fact that they don't want any official (or legal) investigation of any of the matters being expounded.

btw, Sending out the 'bully boys' is a tactic regularly employed by our local council agin those who

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, thank you for your selective quoting, let me qualify what the article says before that:

"Nearly 20,000 picked up an average of £9,300 in 'allowances', the basic pay they get from town halls. In some local authorities, the sum was more than £20,000 a year."

That's not quite the same as £200,000, for the most senior (London or GLA boroughs perhaps, where the responsibilities and budgets are very large). Not quite the same as Somerton (population 5,000). In the very highly paid cases, the councillors would necessarily have to be full-time.

Anyway, journalists judging politicians is a ridiculous notion.

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[chico_the_chihuahua]

Steady on! You'll give yourself a heart attack! :)

all != many != few.

I'm not saying that all of them are perfect, but to state or imply that the majority are corrupt is cynical. Who of the 'good people' would want to enter politics, if you immediately believe that they're in it for personal gain? There has to be some element of trust in society. You may say that's naive, but I'm not being idealistic - you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. If there is corruption, they should be double damned for abusing their position, and for abusing the trust of the electorate, and I would expect any judge to recognise that.

So, if you believe that there's corruption, you should tell the police (yup, I can feel even more cynicism for suggesting that), or even try Private Eye (they do a good line in exposing corrupt local officialdom). Surely your local journos would want to dig dirt too? Why not blog about your experiences yourself?

Re:Councillors are not career politicians

[MatB]

Cllrs for Town and Parish councils get paid little to nothing. The article you link to is talking about Cllrs for Primary Local Authorities, which have a lot more responsibility. Regardless of which, town hall officials aren't Cllrs, they're pai employees--yes, overpaid, but completely irrelevent to this discussion.

Read the blog itself

[Mathinker]

Just reading a few of the last entries of the blog:

• Town Council would have approved the building of a recycling center, itself a business opportunity for one of the council members, except that 100+ residents actually showed up at the Town Council meeting to protest.
• A post ridiculing a plan to build a new cheap aluminum doorway in a historic building.
• Critique of the Town Council buying land for some kind of project, the project being canceled, and various interests connected with the Town Council profiting from the sale of the rezoned land, whereas there didn't seem to be much problem with actually managing to get this project finished rather than canceled (and that would have been more transparent and equally beneficial to the community).
• The blogger's car was torched and his house vandalized.

So no, I don't think it's exactly a newspaper. It's more focused and more dangerous, like being an opposition leader in an only semi-democratic country.

Re:Read the blog itself

[nurb432]

The blogger's car was torched and his house vandalized.

Another good example of why the net should be as anonymous as possible

Re:Read the blog itself

[FlyingBishop]

I think you need to read up on the historical role of newspapers. Pedro Chamorro Cardenal was the editor of La Prensa in Nicaragua, and he was a powerful opposition leader in his own right. His murder effectively started the Sandinista revolution.

You've just become accustomed to "newspaper" meaning "establishment drivel."

Re:Read the blog itself

[Mathinker]

> You've just become accustomed to "newspaper" meaning "establishment drivel."

You're probably right, but I can call in my defense the Slashdot FAQ which says that "Slashdot is US-centric". In the US, "newspaper" more or less does mean "establishment drivel".

Re:Read the blog itself

[Krneki]

The blogger's car was torched and his house vandalized.

Another good example of why the net should be as anonymous as possible

Why do you need anonymity if you don't have nothing to hide? Oh, wait ...

Re:Read the blog itself

[FlyingBishop]

Well, it is a US phenomenon, it just hasn't been that way here for decades. Look at the Washington Post during the Nixon administration - they are really the ones responsible for exposing him as a crook. The first newspapers functioned almost exactly like blogs, except in a physically communal viewing space instead of the Internet.

Newspapers have mostly abdicated their role, which is why we're moving to Blogs, etc.

Re:Read the blog itself

[Nazlfrag]

Well you still have some truly excellent publications like the Christian Science Monitor, so it's not all complete drivel. Just most.

Re:Read the blog itself

[Fishy]

The blogger's car was torched and his house vandalized.

Another good example of why the net should be as anonymous as possible

A car was torched on the same street != the blogger's car was torched

Another good example of why the net needs a fact checker!

Re:Read the blog itself

[jandersen]

Anonymous? Like a sniper, you mean? If you hide youself behind anonymity, you are no better than the bloke at the back of a crowd who jeers - or throws a stone, for that matter. People like you always talk about "freedom" and "rights", but what they mean is simply that they want to shirk their responsibility, like the free-loaders on society they are; true freedom comes with responsibility and obligations.

It is always possible - certainly in UK - to express your opinion without fear of prosecution and to be in loyal opposition. This was most recently demonstrated by the BBC inviting the clown Nick Griffin to participate in Question Time.

Re:Read the blog itself

[HungryHobo]

Anonymous like a newspapers source. Anonymous like a whistleblower.
If I want to alert people that I think/know something illegal or immoral is being done I shouldn't be required to put my neck on the block to do it.
Now if I want to testify against them to get them punished in court sure but until that point why must I open myself up to physical danger in order to let people know about injustices.

Re:Read the blog itself

[hesaigo999ca]

However, the same laws and protections should apply,seeing as this person had proof, and brought light to certain aspects of an otherwise severely hidden process, to which I would say is exactly what journalism is about....except that FOX news, has the big budget and the strings, should any of their reporters be endangered covering a story they can actually spend to protect or prosecute those that would want to harm their employees.

Re:Read the blog itself

[Anonymous Coward]

one thing is to stand up against white collars if the legal system is not terribly broken (as in Italy). another is to stand up against organized crime or people which generally prefer knifing than suing for defamation.

Re:Read the blog itself

[Xest]

What, so that the blogger can make up such lies to back his story even though there's no evidence and no way to prove what was said really actually happened?

I agree with internet anonymity, but if it's to protect bloggers then there's no way to verify what they say is true making blogs a pointless waste of time anyway. You either need verifiability to make blogs worthwhile, or you have anonymity and make blogs pointless.

It's unfortunate, but I'm afraid it can't work both ways.

Re: Thats so not what its about

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, I live in Somerton, and its not a backwards place like Kupfernigk is trying to make out.
We are just a normal town, and from the sounds of things Kupfernigk has probably hardly ever been to Somerton and thinks the have the right to criticise what they no NOTHING about!!

This isnt about blogging. A lot of people here think that some members of the council were out to make money, and there are strong rumours that local people were trying to get them kicked off the council, so they ran instead.

Mobilization of residents rather than humiliation

[Mathinker]

If you also read the blog (assuming he isn't just making it all up), you would see that rather than the council resigning because of being humiliated, the blog seems to have managed to mobilize a large enough segment of the residents to make the usual workings of the council rather difficult since there are many, many more people trying to make sure that the Council is actually protecting their interests. It seems that before this, the Council just would do mostly whatever it wanted, with little external review.

The blog talks about two recent Council meetings where 100+ residents showed up.

Seriously?

[user4574]

Criticism from one blogger constitutes "impossible working conditions?" Really? I mean, really? If he calls them all doody heads, maybe he could get them to cry in public.

Re:If ONLY THAT WORKED HERE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

kdawson is a Nazi jackass!

Gotta love self-censorship

[RichiH]

I love how "ass" is bleeped out and Nazi is an OK word.

Also, both bleeps and asterisks just emphasize that there is something to "hide", making it's effect stronger as it forces the brain out of normal cruise into attention.

The right to sue

[CdBee]

While truth is an absolute defence against the charge of libel, the right of the individual mentioned is to bring a court case (not necessarily to win it - although justice is a tricky thing).

even when in the right it is an unfortunate situation to be the defendant in a civil court case.

Strong arming a politician?

[nurb432]

Nah, there was other reasons, no real politician would resign just because he was called names. Name calling is part of the business.

Why the stars?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you think Jackass is ruder than it was intended. It just means male donkey. Probably because in the US arse is pronounced the same as ass resulting in confusions between donkeys and bottoms. Wars have been caused by less!

Re:Why the stars?

[ezzthetic]

It's surprising how common this misunderstanding has become.

In Australia, commentators insist on referring to the TV show as "Jackarse".

Completely wrong

[Kupfernigk]

Only 1 of the 12 had actually been elected. The blogger was drawing attention to what he saw as a democratic deficit in Somerton. Locals started to believe him and started to turn up to Council meetings to see what went on. It looks as if this sudden public attention may have caused the councillors to decide that they didn't want to be councillors any more. On the other hand, on our side of the constituency where just about every council seat is contested and where the local paper is full of arguments about what is going on, hardly anybody bothers to turn up to see what happens at Council meetings = councillors complain that there is not enough public involvement.

BTW who told you his allegations were unfounded? As for why he doesn't stand for election himself, it's because a campaign of intimidation has been aged against him - it's documented on his blog and believe me, anyone who lives in this part of the world knows this kind of thing goes on and can well believe it. I suggest that, just as British posters do tend not to pontificate about US politics, you keep your US=centric views out of this case. Because you do not understand UK local government at all.

Re:Completely wrong

[belmolis]

Only 1 of the 12 had actually been elected.

How did the other 11 get into office then? Council members are normally elected in England, aren't they? Were these eleven appointed to fill out the terms of a bunch who died in an accident or something?

They've had the chance

[Kupfernigk]

I won't go over CaptainofSpray's ground again except to commend his post. But they have plenty of opportunity to make their case. The local weekly magazine (Fosseway) is now very right wing Conservative and would give them plenty of space to publish rebuttals. The blogger is, basically, alleging that they have made planning decisions which benefit the council leader and not the public. If this is true, how are they going to respond? If not, why hasn't their response been published at length in a magazine which often reports contentious council business at vast length?

Re:They've had the chance

[Anne Thwacks]

how are they going to respond?

Can I suggest sacrificing some virgins to the local dragon? It has often worked in the past!

After all, our beloved government has just demonstrated their opposition to the concept of science, so logical responses are clearly politically unacceptable.

Need more information

[erroneus]

The article was scant on details, unfortunately, but it seems the blogger was pointing out extreme irregularities going on in the council. In the U.S., such reports led to the FBI investigating the council of Dallas, Texas. One important difference in Dallas was that the players were too arrogant to realize that there was potential for felony conviction and jail time for their activities and refused to resign or otherwise remove themselves.

I have to wonder if the situation in Somerton was anything like the one in Dallas and decided to get our while the getting was good or if they simply could not withstand having negative opinions of them published?

Funny thing about the Truth.

[geekmux]

"...largely by calling them 'jack***es' and Nazis. What's next? The deposition of a president with 'your mom' smacktalk?"

Bloggers, news reporters, CNN, Wall Street Journal...Funny thing about when the Truth comes out. Really doesn't matter who reports it. If it's valid and bad enough, people will be affected by it. Chances are they resigned not because the accusations were false and therefore they could have fought it with a valid counterargument.

I know it's pretty sad to realize that we're going to be getting the "news" from sources like blogs and twitter, but where do you think the large news sources are looking for their "scoop"?

Re: Blogger Humiliates Councillors Into Resigning

[A1rmanCha1rman]

On an even sadder note, notable man-of-words, TV presenter, actor and gadget-lover Stephen Fry has been virtually taunted and flamed to (digital death), leading to his apparent resignation from Twitter.

Once upon a time, there was only character assassination, now it's digital as well...

It's neither of those things, really

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about the international edition of BBC News but here in the UK, there is often a link on the righthand side of the page to the external sites referenced in the article. This keeps them all in one neat place. I think it could be to appear like a newspaper article and also make the reading a little bit easier.

The problem is that if you put links in the middle of a long article, many people will just open those (whether it is to the same tab or a new one) and will never read the rest of the article. It helps people to go through entire article and concentrate on it if you put all the relevant links to the bottom of the page (or some similar place).

There is a lot more to designing websites than the coders who don't work in web development often think.

Re:It's neither of those things, really

[CarpetShark]

The problem is that if you put links in the middle of a long article, many people will just open those

No, the problem is that readers WANT to do that, and your design (guessing from what you said) stops them.

/. Perpetuating Further Media Stupidity?

[flameproof]

"Speaking Truth to Power Dept"??? Knock it off, Slashdot. Not all of your readers are effing braindead; no blogger on the planet is THAT good that they can bring the wheels of government (no matter how small) to a grinding stop. Report the whole story or don't report it at all. Read the blogger's own stuff on this. Oh, and do your website a favor and stay off the BBC bullshit train.

Hopefully....

[BigBadBus]

..my name and shame blog will have the same effect - follow the link in my signature line...

Holy Hot Fuzz, Batmam

[Rob the Bold]

Looks like it's time to send in one honest copper to clean house!

Re:XKCD SUCKS!

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad truth is, it sucks a lot. It being any of the following: Xkcd, Enders game, your favorite band, your favorite operating system, your mom. But ironically, no one really cares what you or I just wrote.

Godwin's Law

[bertoelcon]

This guy won his argument invoking Godwin's Law? I thought calling someone a Nazi or Hitler was a sign that the name-caller has lost.

Seems to me more like...

[denzacar]

An organized walk-out in order to sabotage the council.

They can't or won't fix the things they are responsible for - so they stage a walkout and blame it all on the opposition coming from a vocal minority.
Being called "clowns" and "nazis" is hardly a cause for "Businessman Mr Canvin, 61" to storm out cause he is "not going to tolerate it when [he's] working for the town."

Niall Connolly

[mevets]

On behalf of the people of Ottawa,CA, I would like you to come here and continue your fine work. I"m sure we can make it worth your while, possibly with incentives for each resignation.

Worth a try

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey Obama, your mama!

Crazy

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy needs to come to Quebec :/

Re: Thats so not what its about

[sowth]

Except most people in backwards towns think they are normal. If they thought they were odd, then most of them would start questioning their actions, and they would become more reasonable.

Freedom of speech vs. privacy

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Don't be so quick to criticise Eady. His case history shows a strong bias towards promoting personal privacy, a consideration that for the most part is sorely lacking in law in the UK.

Personally, I'd much rather have a legal system that presumed privacy and overrode it when there was clear public interest than one that presumed you could say whatever you wanted about someone regardless of truth or the damage it would cause and then relied on innocent parties to mount expensive lawsuits to (attempt to) fix the damage after-the-fact. Privacy is an under-rated thing in today's society, but in 20 years' time I think we will look back on our own naivete in allowing government by database state, and permitting global corporations to profile people's entire lives and then use that information arbitrarily (but rarely in the interest of the profilee).

In other words, freedom of speech is a dangerous thing if not balanced by the rights of others not to be abused: such a pure freedom brings with it no responsibility for what you say, and provides carte blanche to damage innocent people with impunity, which is exactly what laws are supposed to guard against. The main value in freedom of speech is in promoting public debate about important principles, without artificial barriers limiting the scope of the debate to what is currently morally acceptable by some particular group or politically acceptable to the current government. The value in freedom of speech is not in allowing one individual or group to attack another with relative impunity, denying the attacked party any right of reply or fair compensation for undue harm caused.

Re: Thats so not what its about

[that this is not und]

Tossing in another even more abstracted stereotype after someone's response denouncing stereotyping hardly counts as a positive contribution to the discussion.

The xkcd comic not quite right about Ender's Game

[gblackwo]

The problem with the xkcd comic is that nowadays the internet is so large it is statistically improbable to get your voice heard- which is I am assuming what they are trying to poke fun at. In Ender's Game, the "nets" seemed to be portrayed as a much smaller network, maybe more similar to the days of usenet. Reading Ender's Game as the nets were portrayed did make the situation plausible.

Re: Re: Blogger Humiliates Councillors Into Resign

[myowntrueself]

Apparently he is back, as boring and sheepish as ever...

Your mom jokes

[Anonymous Coward]

Linking the president to your mom jokes sounds kinda racy if you ask me.

Re: Thats so not what its about

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need to come from Somerton to have the right to an opinion about what goes on in Somerton.

However, I too live in Somerton and that is why I'm posting as another Anonymous Coward. It is true that it is a very rural town with lots of very conservative people living in it. I guess how normal one thinks that is depends on what you are used to. If you are used to living in a city then Somerton will appear to be a very strange place due to its lack of diversity. It has an unusually high proportion of elderly people and very few folks under the age of twenty-five.

I'm sure it won't be too long before we find out exactly what happened to prompt them all to resign. I get the feeling that they have been economical with the truth. Its a shame they were not so economical in spending our money on the Tin Dunny.

Where is....

[reverendbeer]

...Spider Jerusalem when you need him? Oh, be sure and give him a phone, first.

OT: short shrift

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I can't help it, so bear with me. I think that phrase doesn't mean quite fit in as you think it does:

evidence that the current "blogger's revolution" referenced recently here on slashdot will see our modern media overturned in short shrift.

1 : barely adequate time for confession before execution 2 a : little or no attention or consideration b : quick work —usually used in the phrase make short shrift of

Perhaps the phrase you wanted was "in short order"? Can't put my finger on it, but using that phrase as indirect object just seems incorrect...

Idiocracy

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a solution. You're a dick.

South Carolina

Time to coin a new term

[s1lverl0rd]

'Blogtivism', perchance?

So What?

[Petersko]

"These are not jobs done for a living, these are largely volunteers who are getting just enough money to ensure they're not starving."

Being a town councillor is not full time work, and it is not their only income. And apparently these councillors were making their base wage plus whatever they can make from conflict-of-interest situations.

You make it sound like they're operating below the poverty line, but the real question is what do these people make PER HOUR.

Ooops

[Mathinker]

Well, I guess I read it too quickly. Sorry.

I also had the impression that he recently has been recovering from some sort of physical problem, but it wasn't clear to me if it was just an illness or he had been attacked. Since you managed to read the blog more accurately than I, mind giving me more info if you have it?