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Secret Copyright Treaty Leaks. It's Bad. Very Bad.

Jamie found a Boing Boing story that will probably get your blood to at least a simmer. It says "The internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a secret copyright treaty whose text Obama's administration refused to disclose due to 'national security' concerns, has leaked. It's bad." You can read the original leaked document or the summary. If passed, the internet will never be the same. Thank goodness it's hidden from public scrutiny for National Security.

45 of 775 comments (clear)

  1. So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Jamie found a Boing Boing story that will probably get your blood to at least a simmer.

    Well maybe Jamie should read yesterday's Slashdot.

    I would just like to point out that everyone is getting their information from a single point: Michael Geist's blog. Granted, he's rarely wrong but blogs are blogs. So where is this "leaked document" that the summary alludes to? Every source I find online points back to Geist. Even the articles Geist cites at the bottom of his blog point back to him. Even Wikipedia points back to him. I'm not saying that he's wrong nor am I trying to deflate the severity of this but Geist is even relying on other sources:

    Sources say that the draft text, modeled on the U.S.-South Korea free trade agreement, focuses on following five issues...

    Then following that even he says:

    If accurate ...

    Doesn't leave me a whole lot of confidence that we're getting all the unadulterated facts here. I would seek information better than third or fourth hand accounts of something before I went around screaming about the sky falling (trust me, I speak from experience of being fooled by a single blog post).

    Secret Copyright Treaty Leaks. It's Bad. Very Bad.

    So where is the leaked document so that I may judge for myself?

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real question here should be where's the original document and why is the Administration hiding behind 'National security' to avoid releasing it. I've had enough of that over the previous 8 years. Change!

    2. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by vvaduva · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But Obama was to have the most open government in the history of humanity. WTF happened??

    3. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by whatajoke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So where is this "leaked document" that the summary alludes to?

      To quote from Geist's blog:

      selected groups granted access under strict non-disclosure agreements and other countries (including Canada) given physical, watermarked copies designed to guard against leaks.

      I hope that answers your question. Unless you want to out the person leaking this document, he can't ever publish a photocopy of it as it will be traced back to him. And if you think such deception is beyond our autocrats, read up on this and this

    4. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Jurily · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real question is: do we let this sort of secrecy become a precedent? If this thing passes, no matter what it actually says, it will be used to justify the next attempt.

      Informed public is the cornerstone to maintaining democracy, don't let it slip away. (By public I don't mean the redneck sitting in front of the TV drinking beer, but the experts who can at least comment on the proposal and its effects before it's too late.)

    5. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Government + a few high paid lobby groups?

      Really. ANYONE should be able to put 2 and 2 together here.

      This stuff should be a surprise to NO ONE.

      Really, what did you think they were doing? Of course this is why they were hiding from public view.

      The "national security" consideration is that there are some countries (France) that still riot in the streets over this sort of stuff.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by geeper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How do you expect to whip significant numbers of people into an indignant frenzy?
      Tell them this will shut down FaceBook?

      --
      Error reading device 'Signature'. (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?
    7. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by HeyBob! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not much of a legal document if they're all a little different

    8. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Duradin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama is a politician. This is what professional politicians do.

      I doubt we'll ever see another Cincinnatus.

      As Douglas Adams wisely told us, no one who wants to be president should ever be allowed to become the president.

    9. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by purpledinoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Although the parent is modded Funny, I think he makes a good point. If we make this thing sound so horrible, it would have to be made public. We should assume the worst if treaties like this are secret.

    10. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by FTWinston · · Score: 3, Insightful

      America is only a subset of humanity.

    11. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, if all else fails, we can make this thing sound so horrible that any politician that touches it would be publicly shamed.

      That didn't work for us with the DMCA. I think we lack the clout.

    12. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well the *internet* wasn't born until January 1, 1981 when the IP protocol took-over, and it was first opened-up to non-military or non-academics.

      But even then most people never heard of it until the Killer Application called Mosaic was released to Amigas, Macs, and PCs, and people first discovered the world wide web. Then suddenly everyone wanted to get online.

      So we're really talking about 1994 to the present, or fifteen years. People 15 or younger don't remember a time when the web never existed. People 15 and up probably do.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is pretty consistent with his behavior since even before he was elected. Remember the FISA bill that he voted for? (I do; it was at that moment that I resolved not to vote for him. Those who seek to deprive us of our rights are not to be compromised with - and a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil). Or the MPAA-inspired choice for that "copyright czar" position? The RIAA lawyers he's placed in the Department of Justice? His administration's continued dismissal of the warrantless wiretapping cases? Judge politicians by their actions, not by their rhetoric. Talk is cheap.

    14. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by aztracker1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      George Washington wasn't really a politician.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    15. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't know why this was modded funny, since that's the actual concern. As for circumvention: just rewrite it using your own language.

      --e.g.--

      I'm not sure as to why this was modded funny as this is precisely the concern. Circumventing it would be as simple as rewriting it in your own words.

    16. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by mea37 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you and several other posters are missing is, TFS says specifically "you can read the original leaked document". Those words are a link, even. But to what do they link? The blog -- which oddly enough is not "the original linked document".

      When someone promises something and doesn't deliver, I instantly stop trusting them.

    17. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a section in the agreement allowing the RIAA or MPAA to confiscate all of your possessions if they find a single infringing item on any PC you own. If you don't believe me, just ask the government to show it to you and prove me wrong. Tell all your friends.

      Secrecy cuts two ways. If they want to keep it a secret because it benefits their agenda to do so, then I don't have a problem with rumours like that being passed around because it benefits everybody else's agenda. A couple of good rumours like that may be what it takes to make this treaty dead on arrival.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    18. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Kz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As Douglas Adams wisely told us, no one who wants to be president should ever be allowed to become the president.

      That was actually Plato, in "The Republic" (written almost 2,400 years ago!).

      --
      -Kz-
    19. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by Duradin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      An "Honest" professional politician can't exist.

      If they are honest, they won't be a professional politician.
      If they are professional, they won't be a honest politician.

      Honesty means they are either admitting they are the pawns of their paymasters, which means the public won't be voting for them (even though it's a given for politicians, they just aren't supposed to be open about it), or they are admitting they won't be the pawns of lobbyists, which means they won't have enough money to win against the guy that does dance to the lobbyists' tune.

      Honest politicians tend to be one shots. If they get in, they soon find they can't get anything done since the regular politicians don't want the upstart rocking the boat and either make him completely ineffectual so he won't be re-elected or they turn him to their style of politics so he's not a problem anymore.

      And those lizards, they've come up with quite the scheme to be sure one of them always gets elected...

    20. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by harl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That there is no due process. If you neighbor is angry at you they can make a claim and have your internet shut off.

      What are the provisions for false claims? I suspect much closer to none than some.

      Call the newspapers. Call the TV stations. Lay out exactly how trivial it will be to have their internet shutoff. The ISPs aren't going to follow up or verify these letters. They'll pull the switch, grab the immunity, and let you deal with your problem at that point.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    21. Re:So Where Exactly is this 'Leaked' Document? by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not a complete picture, but it's actually worse than the GP said, not better. The U.S. actually has a trade deficit, which means that we have more money going out to other countries than we have coming in. Therefore, in effect, every dollar that goes to American businesses came out of the pockets of the general public. That's not perfectly precise, but that's the net effect. (Plus we're giving a little bit beyond that to foreign companies.)

      Thus, it's entirely correct to divide dollars of debt by the number of American households to give a debt per household figure. The only way that would be wrong would be if we had a positive trade balance such that other countries were helping to pay off that national debt. As long as we have a trade deficit, we're paying for it, and whether we pay for it directly through our own taxes or in the form of higher prices for goods and services caused by business taxes, the net result is the same. We're paying for it. All of it.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. So what's new? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I still don't know why everyone acts so surprised that this administration has carried on with the exact same Intellectual property and "national security" policies of the previous one. Democrats are just as much in the pockets of Hollywood as conservatives are in the pockets of big business (meaning BOTH support oppressive IP legislation). And Obama loves his presidential power just as much as Cheney did. So why anyone ever expected things to somehow be different with this administration, I don't understand. Cheney may not have been right about many things, but he was pretty much dead on when he predicted that Obama would keep most of Bush's national security policies in place (the same ones he criticized during the campaign) once he got a taste of that power for himself.

    It also doesn't surprise me that they're using a treaty to quietly push this crap through. They did the exact same thing with the DMCA. A lot of people don't realize that the DMCA was just the formal ratification of a WIPO treaty that had been debated and agreed to in secret. The powers that be know this shit would never stand the light of day with the electorate, so they quietly push it through with the kind of obscure international treaties that they know CNN, NBC, et. al. are never going to cover. By the time it actually makes it into Congress, it's already a fait accompli. The mainstream media only notices it when someone's already being prosecuted for violating it.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:So what's new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cheney may not have been right about many things, but he was pretty much dead on when he predicted that Obama would keep most of Bush's national security policies in place

      USA doesn't have presidents. They have president-like spokespersons.

      Maybe Obama wanted genuinely to change some things, maybe he didn't, or maybe both. It's irrelevant, since his power is only on paper. You can't make a different choice, when you're given only the same options.

      It's a really nice PR stunt, though, works fine for most people. It'll work again in 3 years.

    2. Re:So what's new? by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WIPO should be WIPOed out. Its members are all traitors to their respective counties and should be lined up against a wall somewhere ane shot. In the groin. Before spending the rest of their lives in prison.

      WIPO is pure unadulterated evil, the spawn of Satan.

      Why is this meeting secret? Or rather, why do the respective citizens of its member states allow it to be secret? The world has returned to feudalism, it seems. Personally, I will continue to respect copyright -- under the old pre-20th century, constitutionally legal copyright laws. I won't download new music, but I have no qualms about downloading twenty year old music. Lessig was right and SCOTUS was wrong. When SCOTUS said that "limited time" meant whatever Congress says it means, they effectively said the Constitution is meaningless.

      I still don't know why everyone acts so surprised that this administration has carried on with the exact same Intellectual property and "national security" policies of the previous one.

      The Governor of California stated on "This Week" that "there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats". Refreshingly honest, for a politician.

    3. Re:So what's new? by onefriedrice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a popular and wrong sentiment that Republicans are connected with "big business" and Democrats are connected with Hollywood. Clearly both parties are in bed with big business (see Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Barack Obama). Democrats just have the advantage of support from prominent figures in Hollywood and the old media, but that doesn't at all means that they somehow have no inclination to cater to big business any less than do Republicans.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    4. Re:So what's new? by Gilmoure · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes! Bob Lassiter (radio commentator in 80's-90's) went on and on about how all the regular cultural divisive stuff (gun, abortion, etc) was just used to keep the electorate distracted while the rich consolidated their kleptocratic hold on the world. The rich (the real rich, that you don't really hear about) don't care what y'all think about such things, as long as the little folks keep toiling away producing money for them.

      There's no left-right axis to anything. That's just an artificial gauge set up in the French revolution as a way of targeting folks for 'wealth transfer'.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  3. Re:Devils avocate... by Spad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It will supposedly mandate 3-strike disconnection laws in all signatory countries without any reasonable standard of evidence because any ISP who *fails* to disconnect you will become legally liable for anything you may have done.

    I call that a bad thing.

  4. Re:What do ISP's have to do with anything? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If this looks like it should pass then we should push for uniformity in the laws. Make telephone companies liable for anything illegal done using their lines and the post office liable for anything it carries and all manufacturers responsible for how their product is used. Send someone a letter bomb? The post office becomes an accessory to murder. Sing happy birthday into a telephone? The phone company is liable for copyright infringement. Kill someone with a gun or a kitchen knife? Murder charges for the gun or kitchen equipment makers too.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. Dreadful. by Crookdotter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This isn't the end of the internet when passed. But it may be the end of the open wild west attitude on the net. I hope it doesn't come to pass where everyone is afraid of uploading videos because they may have a coca cola logo in it and whatnot. What it won't do is stop piracy. It will move to darkets, or people posting massive gb thumb drives around. A bit of a backwards step but pirates will find a way. Hell, it might even increase it as you'd be generating a community spirit for pirates. All this fuss over Lily Allen CD's isn't worth it. Musicians should move to live performances to make money and accept that they shouldn't be millionaires for 1 album. They should work for a living like the rest of us. DVD's should be released much later after a film's release, and so move people to get back into the cinema. Live performance is where you make the money. Backup and copies should be let go for free (ish).

    1. Re:Dreadful. by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Musicians should move to live performances to make money and accept that they shouldn't be millionaires for 1 album.

      Very, very few musicians get rich no matter how talented they are. They should learn to realise that. If you love music, become a musician. If you love money, become a thief.

  6. Re:This law wouldnt work in canada by Wolvenhaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The thing with US Federal law though is that treaties override constitutional laws. Laws Constitution Treaties. So any major unconstitutional idea that Has To Be Passed For Your Safety will be written and signed as a treaty with another country if it is too controversial for the public to accept.

    --
    Orwell was an optimist.
  7. The next war. by Jaysyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We should call this the War on MP3s. It will be about as effective as the War on Drugs.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  8. Re:OH NOES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I didn't think they'd be any different. I just knew the alternative was even worse.

    The only shocker to me is that it's gotten to the point where I can't hate politicians and large multinational corporations enough. Like there's not enough vitriolic words and energy contained within the human brains and body to express adequately what monumental bastards they are. They're fucking blights on society. They're massive drag on the intellectual and economic progress of a country. They are the arch-enemy of freedom and free expression. They are absolutely opposed to anything that advances the state of the average man that doesn't grant a pile of money to the elite in the process.

    Fuck these people and institutions. To quote Joe Pesci in Casino: "Don't fuck me in the ass and tell me it's a blowjob!"

  9. Looks like /. may be on the same side as ISPs... by Interoperable · · Score: 5, Insightful

    for once.

    From TFA: "That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed material." ISPs will be fighting this one pretty hard. There's no way they want to invest their resources to trying to patrol the internet. It's not their job, it's likely illegal and it's expensive.

    I do, in fact, think that copyright holders have every right to defend their legal rights but they absolutely must not step on the rights of others in so doing. Take-downs without due process, ISPs acting as police and blanket anti-DRM-violation rules are all measures that stomp on the rights and freedoms of the public. This treaty will infuriate everyone other than the content producers and I think will spark some lobbying from groups that haven't previously been seen on the side of openness.

    The general public (that means a broader public than /.) must become aware of the issues here. Most people simply aren't concerned with IP law even if it should concern them. That said, a threat to YouTube or Facebook or Twitter will spark a response. Here's what I propose: start a group that issues indiscriminate take-down notices of all sorts of media. If there is no punishment for frivolous DMCA notices then there's no risk. Start pissing people off, the service providers that have to deal with the requests and the content producers. Piss people off until legislation to prevent such action comes in, then we've own.

    --
    So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
  10. Re:I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but. . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's an attitude thing.

    There are people like yourself who feel you should be able to produce something and continue to profit off freely/easily replicated copies of that effectively meaning you can over time make a fair bit of money for relatively little work.

    Then there are those who realise that strong copyright isn't needed, they are the ones who accept that people should work for a living, they're the ones who produce IP as a service- musicians who perform, programmers who write bespoke software and so on.

    Really, this is what the copyright battle comes down to- those who want to do very little work for a decent payoff against those who think that's a rather lazy viewpoint and so work for a living, whilst copying material of those who are too lazy to do so.

    Effectively if you want an easy life, don't be suprised if those who accept that nothing is free disagree with you and pirate your stuff. If you haven't done much work to produce your IP other than the original work involved to create it, why should anyone pay you?

  11. Re:I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but. . by PhreakOfTime · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, there are plenty of people who have filed to run their business as a corporation. You arent a 'corporate owner', that phrase drips with sanctimonious self-importance. I certainly hope you hire a lawyer very quickly to handle your copyright, as you obviously have zero idea what copryright law actually is.

    When 'your friends' create a mix from someone elses music, or use video clips for school work, they are NOT violating copyright. If your friends took someone elses creation, did nothing, and then made a million copies of it to sell for profit, THEN they are violating copyright.

    Seriously, get a lawyer. If you proceed in your misinformed thoughts you are going to find yourself on the receiving end of whats called a 'declaratory judgment' from someone who your all-encompassing ego sent a threat of copyright litigation.

    How do I know this? Well some self-important ass clown tried to send me a cease and desist letter claiming copyright infringement. So instead of backing down, I hit back harder and filed for a declaratory judgment against them. They obviously lost, as their understanding of copyright is about as accurate as yours. When you dont have any idea what the law is, you better not be making legal threats against people, or spending your time looking for people who you suspect of violating something based on your own inaccurate understanding of the subject.

    If you ever crossed paths with me with that BS in public, I would hang you out to dry in the court system so fast, you wouldn't know what hit you.

  12. Re:Secret laws aren't legal... by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The actual treaty (or law) won't be secret, just the debate leading up to it. They'll try to keep it secret for as long as possible, then slip the ratification into another bill that no politician can vote against. ("Think of the Children" type bills)

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  13. Go After Individual Lobbyists by benjfowler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll wager that the lobbying industry working for Big Content are filled with the same dishonest, shady and corrupt characters that shilled for Big Tobacco decades ago when they tried to deny links between smoking and lung cancer for purely selfish business reasons; or the corrupt rightwing shills who effectively conned the US government in waging wars and terrorism against Latin American countries to "protect US interests" (e.g. United Fruit). The same morally bankrupt individuals who staff lobbying companies and populate rightwing think tanks that are blitzing the world with climate denialism.

    Perhaps it's time for society to start asking who these people are, who they're working for and what they're getting paid. A public open database of paid lobbyists and shills might be useful. Perhaps these weasels might be less keen on trashing our liberties for profit if they know that light is being shone on their corrupt activities.

    Chances are, there will be only several dozen key individuals, who if pressured enough, and "encouraged" to find a more legitimate and honest lines of work, would make a big difference in fighting the onward march of vested interests in eroding our rights for profit.

  14. What Do We Know? by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A lot of what we have seen so far on this is second hand, conjecture, etc. The "leaked document" in this case doesn't seem to exist -- it looks like Michael Geist's blog entry is what is being referenced. I think it is reasonable to suppose that the blog entry may be accurate, but we don't really know that it is.

    So what do we know? What conclusions can we draw from the information we have?

    1. It is called the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. The word "counterfeiting" in there seems like an important data point.
    2. It has been quashed by citing national security. National security has certainly become an extraordinarily loose standard, but it still means something.
    3. Lots of copyright bigwigs have signed the NDA.
    4. Three Google representatives have signed the NDA. (not sure what that contributes to this post, but I think it is worth noting)
    5. The Obama administration has appointed a number of high ranking RIAA lawyers to the DoJ. I think that they are prohibited from being involved in official court duties related to copyright issues for two years from leaving the industry.

    Item 5 leads me to wonder what those lawyers would be up to if they can't participate in actual proceedings. It seems reasonable to hypothesize that they might be working on ACTA, and combined with item 3 above makes me tend to think that the conjecture that ACTA is related to copyright is true. Yet its title mentions "counterfeiting."

    For years the government has referred to selling fake packaged copies of Windows 95 as counterfeit, which seems fair enough. They are an attempt to pass something off as the genuine article, to deceive the recipient into believing it is the real thing. This is a particularly dangerous thing with money, where the term "counterfeit" is most commonly used, because it devalues the currency. It is also a problem with things like software, in part because the person buying it cannot be confident that they are getting the real product.

    In short, the reason "counterfeit" is worse than mere copyright infringement is because its misrepresentation as the genuine article has extra costs to society. It is on this basis that investigation and punishment of counterfeit products is a more serious issue than of copyright infringement alone.

    So, that makes me wonder: Is the ACTA about what has traditionally been defined as counterfeit, or might it be about redefining all copyright infringement as counterfeiting? If so, it might make the national security issue make sense; counterfeiting is somewhat reasonably considered a national security issue. So if copyright infringement is redefined to be counterfeiting, then all copyright infringement would become, by a wave of a magic wand, a national security issue and would activate sections of the law created to deal with the more serious problem of traditional counterfeiting.

    Heck, if you were sufficiently twisted, you could even think that because this will classify a whole new swath of people as counterfeiters, and because counterfeiting is a national security issue, that disclosing the reclassification of copyright infringement would "tip our hand" to the people who are soon to be defined as counterfeiters. And we wouldn't want to disrupt these enemies of the state before we get a chance to classify their actions as hostile to the state.

  15. Re:This proves one thing by Gilmoure · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I voted for Nader.

    In 2000.

    In Florida.

    My bad.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
  16. Re:This proves one thing by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well I for one am extremely happy with the actions of Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

    Their ever-increasingly central control via government of private citizens' lives, homes, and communications will make it MUCH easier for me. I and my brownshirts will be able to sweep-in to the Congress, declare emergency powers, turn-off the communication networks, and consolidate power with ease. Thank you Bill, George and Barak.

    Signed,
    Napoleon the X

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. How do we PREVENT this? by gknoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't care about the reasons for keeping this from us, nor whether the current administration is the same as the old, or more (or less) truthful than the old one.

    I care about how to prevent this. What can I do? Are senators and representatives in on this? How can I make an argument about this, over the phone to some staffer, which doesn't make me sounds like a lunatic, or someone who's only upset that they can't torrent the latest movies? What concerns can I highlight which will motivate OTHER people to contact their representatives? How can I pitch this in such a way that my representative will be inclined to listen to my reasoning?

    I don't mind calling my reps, I just have no idea what the hell to say.

  19. Re:This proves one thing by s73v3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The media loved Palin too.