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Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine

anomnomnomymous writes "Just a week after Unity announced its engine is now available for free to indie users, Epic Games has revealed a free version of its popular Unreal Engine technology. Called the Unreal Development Kit (UDK), it is a free edition of UE3 that allows community, modder and indie users more access to the engine's features and is available for all. Epic said game developers, students, hobbyists, researchers, creators of 3D visualizations and simulations plus digital filmmakers can all take advantage of the UDK for non-commercial use. The UDK site also offers detailed product features, technical documentation, commercial licensing terms and support resources."

217 comments

  1. Still behind id by i.r.id10t · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Still behind id software and their GPL releases of the game engines.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    1. Re:Still behind id by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      You mean the ones they won't be releasing anymore, because they're broke and have been owned by the man?

      But whoa, I'm really looking forward to Doom 5 or whatever their working on now. I'm sure it will be nice and dark.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:Still behind id by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny
    3. Re:Still behind id by binarylarry · · Score: 0

      Amazing! Is that using the new hardware tesselation stuff! The level of detail is crazy!

      id is BACK!

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    4. Re:Still behind id by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doom was released in December 1993. Doom II was released in October 1994, 10 months later. Doom III was released in February 2007, 148 months later. If this progression holds, then Doom IV won't be released this century and by the time Doom V is released the human race probably won't be recognisable, if it still exists.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Still behind id by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Still behind id software and their GPL releases of the game engines.

      But ahead in game quality.

    6. Re:Still behind id by pak9rabid · · Score: 1, Funny

      I found a screenshot of Doom 5

      Nice. Putting those pixel shaders to heavy use I see.

    7. Re:Still behind id by dnaumov · · Score: 1

      Still behind id software and their GPL releases of the game engines.

      Please point me to GPL'ed sources of ID software engine technology equivalent to the technology described in TFA. Thanks.

    8. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      How the hell did this get modded informative? Doom 3 was released in August of 2004. The final patch was released in February of 2007.

    10. Re:Still behind id by dnaumov · · Score: 1

      http://xreal-project.net/

      You are delusional if you think quake3 engine (id tech 3) is anywhere near UE3.

    11. Re:Still behind id by GrumpySteen · · Score: 3, Funny

      Didn't you notice the "sudo mod me up" at the end?

      Now make me a sandwich.

      No?

      sudo make me a sandwich

    12. Re:Still behind id by ComputerPhreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still behind id software and their GPL releases of the game engines.

      What a troll. id releases its old generation engines as GPL, not the current or even last-generation engines. Unreal Engine 3 is not comparable to the Quake 3 engine, it's more like the id Tech 5 engine, which certainly isn't available for free licensing let alone GPL distribution.

    13. Re:Still behind id by fmoliveira · · Score: 1

      if you want to develop a commercial game the gpl engine won't help you. don't know what license unreal engine is anyway

    14. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone with mod points didn't see that it was meant to be a joke.

    15. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      GPL is a terrible license for a game engine if you plan to have a multi-player mode, because releasing the code to your game makes it really easy to make cheats. LGPL isn't adequate either, because anybody can replace the engine library with a cheating version.

    16. Re:Still behind id by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Informative

      GPL is a terrible license for a game engine if you plan to have a multi-player mode, because releasing the code to your game makes it really easy to make cheats.

      No. Bad design makes it really easy to make cheats. A server naive enough to trust the clients makes it really easy to make cheats. A well designed multiplayer game is no easier to cheat in with or without the source code. If releasing the source code makes it easier to cheat, the game was poorly designed. Conversely, if a developer knows the source code will be available, they may be motivated to do the job right. Since people can make cheats for a poorly designed game anyway, regardless of whether you release the source code or not, a game that releases the source code and is designed to be secure anyway is certainly going to be harder to make cheats for than games which mistakenly think if they don't release the source code, their game will be more secure, a fact proven wrong again and again and again.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    17. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. Bad design makes it really easy to make cheats. A server naive enough to trust the clients makes it really easy to make cheats. A well designed multiplayer game is no easier to cheat in with or without the source code. If releasing the source code makes it easier to cheat, the game was poorly designed. Conversely, if a developer knows the source code will be available, they may be motivated to do the job right. Since people can make cheats for a poorly designed game anyway, regardless of whether you release the source code or not, a game that releases the source code and is designed to be secure anyway is certainly going to be harder to make cheats for than games which mistakenly think if they don't release the source code, their game will be more secure, a fact proven wrong again and again and again.

      The same thing was said by open source supporters when Quake 1 source code was released and cheating went rampant. It's, of course, absolutely true, if you desing so that automating your input doesn't give you an advantage, and so that having the information that your RAM hides doesn't give you an advantage, then there's no cheating problem! The catch? This involves adding auto aim into a FPS game and not hiding players behind walls, which would make them flicker on sight, degrading severely the gaming experience. And yes, open source supporters said this. I'm quoting from here, for example: http://catb.org/esr/writings/quake-cheats.html

      If Quake had been designed to be open-source from the beginning, the performance hack that makes see-around-corners possible could never have been considered and either the design wouldn't have depended on millisecond packet timing at all, or aim-bot recognition would have been built in to the server from the beginning.

      Yeah, that would be really fun. Carmack himself, the guy that gave you the GPL'd quake code said that the only solution to the cheating problem is a little closed source program that verifies the binaries, i.e: closed source.

    18. Re:Still behind id by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You're delusional if you think that's just a plain-jane Tech3 engine too, pal.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    19. Re:Still behind id by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Nah, XReal has some significant enhancements. It can render much more detailed scenes than a stock id tech3 engine can.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    20. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Xreal is not id Tech 3, it is only based on id Tech 3. Just like Unreal Engine 3 is not Unreal Engine 1, but it is based on Unreal Engine 1.

      At this point Xreal can do just about anything that Unreal Engine 3 can.

    21. Re:Still behind id by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      Any popular multiplayer game is going to get hacked (especially PC FPS's). There really is no way around it. Whether your source is out there or not, people will reverse engineer the code and find a way. As an indie developer, I can only hope that my game becomes popular enough that people would create cheats for it. Regardless, security through obscurity is not something that a developer should rely on, and rarely does these days. Most companies take a proactive stance against cheating, which is really the best way to combat it.

    22. Re:Still behind id by Turiko · · Score: 1

      unreal tournament = Epic Doom = ID software

    23. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      GrumpySteen is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.

    24. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd be surprised. XreaL's renderer is certainly up to par with UE3's renderer. The problem is that the rest of the engine code is still the ancient quake 3 engine, which is really outdated. And the map editor sucks.

    25. Re:Still behind id by beerbear · · Score: 1

      epic doom? Is that better or worse than epic fail?

      --
      Hold my beer and watch this!
    26. Re:Still behind id by dintech · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, clearly you misunderstand this screen shot. Our hell spawn battling protagonist is getting ready to shoot something and as an enhancement for Doom 5, he not only puts down his flashlight but now also closes his eyes too. It's all very atmospheric...

    27. Re:Still behind id by Turiko · · Score: 1

      yeah, sorry about that... i forgot that the slashdot editor doesn't understand the enter key and you have to break the lines yourself with html...
      fixed:
      unreal tournament = Epic
      Doom = ID software

    28. Re:Still behind id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      OK: you're a sandwich.

    29. Re:Still behind id by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      I found a screenshot of Doom 5.

      People were excited when they said Duke Nukem Forever had been ported to HTML 5 <canvas>, but man, Doom 5 uses plain old HTML 3.2! (Though I'm fairly sure Carmack is ashamed of the fact that the highly broken Microsoft HTML generator was used.) Clearly more impressive, even when the engine may be a bit outdated by now!

    30. Re:Still behind id by sopssa · · Score: 1

      You can change to Plain Old Text in settings and then enter works as normal (and html tags too)

    31. Re:Still behind id by IICV · · Score: 1

      Did you actually, you know, read your own link? As explained in that very article, the closed source binary checking program wouldn't work. Hacking that sort of thing is ridiculously easy - it's identical to a no-cd patch, and those come out minutes after a CD rip.

      Even when Quake was closed source, (and again, I'm citing your article) there were proxy aimbots that would sit between the client and server and "correct" the client's aim. Making it open source only let hackers build those features into the client itself.

      Carmack chose for Quake to be performant; as a result, it's inherently insecure. (again, a direct paraphrase from your article) This is true regardless of Quake's openness.

    32. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      You miss the point entirely. I'm a developer, so I know that you can change how an assembled piece of machine code works, thanks, captain obvious. Parent was implying that quake has a bad design, but I say that what he calls a good design is actually a worse design, because it leads to a more boring game. How can you call something a bad design when it's a necessity? So the alternative proposed is not playing aim games, *at all*. You criticize an unsurmountable difficulty without ever providing a solution. Don't you see the problem? The open source solution involves removing features, ergo, there's no open source answer to this problem. Which leads me to my original point: that a GPL engine for a shooter is useless, because it promotes cheating. Can we agree on that? And don't tell me that people will cheat the game the same. They will. If you are a hardcore gamer you'll know that the shooters with more cheating of the history have been: Quake 1 it was open sourced and Warsow which always was open source. Quake 3 was also open sourced, but there wasn't such a rampant cheat problem because the servers required punkbuster in the client (a closed source cheat detection component). Warsow is about to implement something similar soon, in response to the cheating problem. Funny how everybody agrees that open source and available documentation and a helping community help people make software projects, but magically that doesn't apply when your software project consists of a wallhack of an aimbot. Yay double standard.

    33. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      s/They will/They won't/g
      s/Quake 1 it was/Quake 1 after it was/g

      I'm used to posting stuff without previewing and then reading it and clicking the edit button if I find a mistake... Still not used to the fact that the damn slashdot doesn't have an editing function. They could give you 5 minutes or something...

    34. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      The other reason Quake 3 didn't have much cheating was that the mods that people played (nobody played baseq3) remained closed source.

    35. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      Please answer these series of questions:

      Is it easier making changes to open source software than proprietary software?

      What's easier for one to modify and add functionality to, Linux or Windows? Firefox or Explorer?

      Yeah, I thought so. One of the good things about Open Source software if that you can modify it, right? That's the point of the movement.

      Now why isn't the same true of wallhacks and aimbots?

      Logic doesn't cut it for you? Do you prefer proof? Go play Warsow, an open source shooter. Or read about the glorious days where Quake 1 was open sourced and cheating increased tenfold.

    36. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      I also would like to note. I'm not against open source in any way. In fact, I'm a regular contributor of a major open source framework. What I'm saying is that this attitude of denial is ridicule. Can't we accept that Open Source isn't the ultimate answer to everything? That maybe its strength at empowering people to modify, turns against you when you are trying to stop cheating? Maybe your answer is "then don't play with people on the internet". But there are people that prefers to play and take the risk, and whenever possible they would like to minimize the occurrence of that, and closed source is undeniably the first step you want to take. No other form of counter-measure is so easy yet so effective at reducing cheating. Because you actually have to work more to make something open source than to keep it open!

      But about old the double standard of "they'll modify the game anyway" astounds me. Why do we need the source for Linux then?

    37. Re:Still behind id by Faceless+Void · · Score: 1

      *closed :P

    38. Re:Still behind id by DaVince21 · · Score: 1

      id is B(L)ACK!

      --
      I am not devoid of humor.
    39. Re:Still behind id by DaVince21 · · Score: 1

      So Doom IV will be released December 2099 and Doom V will be released right before the end of humanity as we know it. Big deal.

      --
      I am not devoid of humor.
    40. Re:Still behind id by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      Look at any multi-player game that runs on the Source engine. The source code isn't released and there are cheaters everywhere.

      Quake is a poor example because it was one of the first FPS multiplayer games that became popular. If the amount of cheaters start at 0 or a very small number, increasing the amount by tenfold isn't really hard to do.

    41. Re:Still behind id by strstrep · · Score: 1

      So Doom IV will be released December 2099 and Doom V will be released right before Duke Nukem Forever. Big deal.

      There, fixed that for you.

  2. Umm... Unreal has been free for a long time by mysidia · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    You can get the source Here

    1. Re:Umm... Unreal has been free for a long time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahahahahahahahahahah! U R Funny Man!!!

      Fucktard.

  3. The game that invented the headshot... by GPLDAN · · Score: 1, Interesting

    UE3 is the FPS that invented the sniper head shot, now considered de rigueur for all shooters.

    1. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually GoldenEye (N64) invented hit locations, including head shots.

    2. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by bertoelcon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Actually GoldenEye (N64) invented hit locations, including head shots.

      Unless you used the golden gun.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    3. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by footnmouth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Slashdot needs +1 Headshot as a moderation option

      --
      -- For evil to triumph it is enough that good men do nothing.
    4. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Unreal Tournament may not have invented the head shot, but it did invent the neck shot. Sadly the ripper was dropped after the first game in the series. An unwieldy weapon that was just fun to use.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    5. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Nursie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I thought we had those in quake (team fortress)...

    6. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by mewsenews · · Score: 1

      AC, I think you might be right. I remember SiN and Soldier of Fortune both having location-based damage modifiers, but SoF was released in 2000 and SiN was 1998.

    7. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by thijsh · · Score: 5, Funny

      +1 Footshot

    8. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by afidel · · Score: 1

      We have a winner. Earliest FPS with location detection I can remember.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    9. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought we had those in quake (team fortress)...

      Indeed... Team Fortress or even Thunderwalker CTF. Possibly ThreeWave but I never played it.

    10. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by GPLDAN · · Score: 1

      I have no idea why that comment was modded as troll.

    11. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      An unwieldy weapon that was just fun to use.

      Actually it was just a less cool version of the Razorjack.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    12. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      True, but UT did introduce *blam* "HEADSHOT!!" sound effect which seems to be on every FPS server I play on these days.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    13. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by EvilBudMan · · Score: 0

      Wish I had points today because I think you are correct. It was a big deal in 97. The first console shooter that was fun IMO.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenEye_007

    14. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by FTWinston · · Score: 1

      That's nothing; you remember the Crotch Shot mutator? :)

    15. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      System Shock invented location based damage.

      The Razorjack was dropped after the second game in the series. It existed in Unreal and again in Unreal Tournament where they renamed it to Ripper.

    16. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      +1 Moneyshot. Oh wait, wrong forum.

    17. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by space_jake · · Score: 1

      Sadly, the bio gun has been in every version.

    18. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      We can use it to tag stories to replace slownewsday.

    19. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Although not exactly an FPS as the term is generally used, MechWarrior 2 had hit locations before that, badly bugged at first - I remember that hits were very often erroneously scored against one particular part of the target (right arm?). I think they patched that pretty quickly.

      I'm not sure whether the original MechWarrior allowed you to aim at particular parts of opposing 'mechs - I never played that game.

    20. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shogo had headshots as well.

    21. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hit detection for head shots was in TF for quake1...

    22. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and Halo invented the first person perspective for shooters and Splinter Cell invented stealth gameplay.

      Please remove yourself from the grassed area outside my house.

    23. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Mechwarrior 2 was doing it before then. Not a true FPS by definition but I don't know if we're sticking to the genre or just the game mechanic in general.

    24. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 Bodyshot ;}

    25. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Minwee · · Score: 1
      Mechwarrior 1 also had hit locations. It would have been a pretty pathetic implementation of Battletech if it didn't.

      Unfortunately that meant that it was trivially simple to line up head shots on slower moving targets and suck any hint of challenge out of the game, but so be it.

    26. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      +1 Flu shot?

    27. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a First Person game where gameplay revolves entirely around Shooting things. What more do you want?

      And there are plenty of games that have involved riding in giant robots while shooting things that nobody has ever denied are FPSes ... Chronicles of Riddick, Quake 4, Jedi Outcast ...

    28. Re:The game that invented the headshot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still haven't played a game where it was more fun to cap someone in the knees.

  4. Windows only.. by Madsy · · Score: 0, Troll

    boooring!

    1. Re:Windows only.. by alteveer · · Score: 0, Troll

      Seriously -- where is the OSX version?!121!: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE5NQ

    2. Re:Windows only.. by LDoggg_ · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Or the Linux version.

      It was ported to Linux 2 years ago(right after the windows release) but it was never released.

      --

      "If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
    3. Re:Windows only.. by slart42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Unity engine also mentioned in the caption (which is now also free, and even lets you make money with it) has always had a mac version (it actually used to be mac-only for content generation until earlier this year).

    4. Re:Windows only.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wont be a Linux version, both Linux users are busy debating the root escalation flaw

    5. Re:Windows only.. by Madsy · · Score: 1

      Troll? Thanks guys, I love you all. Too bad you guys didn't get the joke. You know.. some of use have waited *a long time* for a Linux port of Unreal 3. And you can bet your arse that their commercial SDK isn't coupled to a Windows build environment.

  5. You know what I want to see now? by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A multi-platform client that allows you to load Google Sketchup files. It would be nice to walk around the models, buildings, etc.

    After that, make that multi-platform client compatible with Google Earth. Yes a lot of stuff is still flat but at least they do have terrain data so it would still be nice.

    And last, just for kicks, add an option for playing in that map MMOFPS style!

    1. Re:You know what I want to see now? by localman57 · · Score: 1

      They gave you the code. Get crackin'!

    2. Re:You know what I want to see now? by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Well I don't know about multi-platform but you can export Sketchup files to Valve's VMF format. Not that I've ever managed to do it successfully...

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    3. Re:You know what I want to see now? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      Actually they didn't iD gave you the code, this is just a free license for Indies, nice but not really in hte same league

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    4. Re:You know what I want to see now? by Rebelgecko · · Score: 1

      You may be interested in this- http://www.3dnemo.com/031_G_to_U.html
      It's for unity, the other engine recently made free.
      The bummer is that it's kind of a PITA for a large area, but it's still doable.

      --
      CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
    5. Re:You know what I want to see now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You apparently can export COLLADA from the Sketchup 7.1. Blender reads and writes COLLADA, the game engine (BGE) is multi-platform. Though I couldn't find it from the site, I'd bet importing COLLADA assets would be in the UnrealEd also, at least some day.

    6. Re:You know what I want to see now? by chrish · · Score: 1

      Unity (http://unity3d.com/) can import a bunch of the formats that Sketchup Pro can export... native support would be easier, of course.

      Out of the box development on Mac or Windows, and deployment to Mac or Windows, as well as on the web.

      Still working through the massive (120 pages!) platformer tutorial and piles o' docs.

      --
      - chrish
  6. All together now.... by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Will! It! BLEND!

    Seriously. Can you combine the two?

  7. Need to GPL3 it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should GPL3 the engine, this ensures that if any commercial entity wishes to use it, they truly must license it off of Epic. GPL3 basically ensures no commercial exploitation anyways. What'd even be better if they provided some content that was sharealike.

    1. Re:Need to GPL3 it by Bragador · · Score: 1

      No, you are not seeing it like they do. First, you authorize people to use it for non commercial use. Then, if someone wants to make money out of it because they made a game, they come to you and pay you. With GPL3, Epic wouldn't be able to still make money out of it.

    2. Re:Need to GPL3 it by spitzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure they would. If somebody uses the GPL version, they have to include the source code of their game with it along with a license that says anybody can copy or modify it for free! That is a pretty big limitation on any business model for a game company. They could however pay Epic for a different license to the code that would allow them to release closed source or otherwise limit what end users can do with the software.

    3. Re:Need to GPL3 it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no it doesn't. GPL3 only covers the source code. So if they GPL'ed it someone could come by use the UnrealScript to code everything (not covered by GPL) and sell the game files while linking to the unmodifyed source code on Epic's site. This is exactly how Id does it. You can get the engine code under GPL but have to pay for the game files.

      IANAL

  8. A Link to the Press Release by rliden · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is a link to the official press release from the Epic site: Epic Games Announces the Unreal Development Kit, Powered by Unreal Engine 3.

    --
    Don't think of it as a flame, more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage.
  9. 3...2...1.... Virtual Porn! by olsmeister · · Score: 1

    Of course, it couldn't be commercial...it'd have to be homebrew. ;)

    1. Re:3...2...1.... Virtual Porn! by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Only if you think a cinder-block sculpture in the shape of a humanoid is hot. No amount of subd is going to smooth a chunky UT-sized player mesh by that much...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:3...2...1.... Virtual Porn! by jack2000 · · Score: 1

      Actually there already is such software.
      With a Japanese tentacle rape version even! My god, where are we?

    3. Re:3...2...1.... Virtual Porn! by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      My god, where are we?

      On Slashdot! Pay attention!

  10. Man's gotta eat by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 1

    UE3 is a current, highly popular game engine. Why would they give out the secret sauce? Even id doesn't do that; they give away the source to engines that are no longer being licensed to 3rd parties and are not bringing in cash flows to id.

    How would licensees of UE3 feel if the engine they paid highly for got open-sourced at the height of its use?

    Seeing the UE2 engine go GPL, on the other hand, would be impressive.

    1. Re:Man's gotta eat by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They're not giving it away. They're giving a free license for non-commercial use. If you create a game with it and want to sell it, then you will have to get a commercial license. Basically, they want people doing game design courses to practice on their engine and not something free.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Man's gotta eat by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Well the licensees would still have one important thing the UDK doesn't give you... the ability to sell your created game for profit.

    3. Re:Man's gotta eat by tecker · · Score: 1

      Well maybe they removed some nice features, or there is no support (highly likely).

      My guess would be they are about to announce UE4 and trying to get people onboard with the UE3 would be the best way to get them to upgrade in the future.

      --
      Procrastinating life a way at a rapid rate of speed.
    4. Re:Man's gotta eat by SebaSOFT · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they're releasing a chopped (community) version and not the full featured engine, Or at least that's the impression I got from the news poster.

    5. Re:Man's gotta eat by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      I'm doubting there is much engine source included with this release.

      Some UnrealScript/Kismet stuff sure, but no engine source.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    6. Re:Man's gotta eat by archangel9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds like they're training programmers for free. Would you want someone working for you that had never touched your engine and would cost $50K to train, or someone who had spent many caffeine-filled nights writing exceptional code on their own time, for fun?

    7. Re:Man's gotta eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-commercial. Anybody who wants to make a game and sell it has to go with a commercial license. This only affects indie devs. The people licensing the engine are completely unaffected because their licenses lets them collect money.

      This type of setup could lead to a TF2 type situation where Epic is able to pickup a very hot mod project.

    8. Re:Man's gotta eat by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 1

      I get that. I'm replying to the several posts I've already seen calling for GPLification.

    9. Re:Man's gotta eat by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I wonder how that applies to "serious gaming" or gaming for training purposes. You aren't directly profiting by creating the training, but in training your employees you improve the overall bottom line. I didn't see any point in the licenses that mention it. (I admit, I did just skim through it though...)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    10. Re:Man's gotta eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually it does - you just need to get the commercial license it lists. That means no up-front costs (according to the text) or 99 dollars (according to the purchase menu) and giving Epic 25% of the proceeds after the first 5000 dollars.

      In theory you can develop your game for free using the UDK, then spend nothing (99 dollars depending upon which option is correct) and only pay them 25% royalties when you sell more than 5000 dollars worth of your game.

    11. Re:Man's gotta eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      btw, ignore my post.. I dunno what happened but I suppose I replied to the wrong person... I'm guessing you are referring to UDK licensees and not the free UDK folks..

    12. Re:Man's gotta eat by nomadic · · Score: 1

      UE3 is a current, highly popular game engine. Why would they give out the secret sauce?

      They could open source it and make money from selling services. Isn't that the party line around here?

    13. Re:Man's gotta eat by bolthole · · Score: 1

      Basically, they want people doing game design courses to practice on their engine and not something free.

      Which is a really really important strategic move. Because the primary motivator for creation of free software, is NEED. So if they reduce, or better yet eliminate, the "need" for people doing classwork to have a free-software based engine, then they have significantly reduced potential future competition in the engine market.
      Potential competition that will eventually always "win", all other things being equal, because... it's free, ya know.

    14. Re:Man's gotta eat by h00manist · · Score: 1

      speaking of eating, some more options on how to reward OS programmers would be great. including financially, but there are lots of other forms of rewards. a website with comparative open source programmer rating = lines of code * achieved audience * published articles, perhaps.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  11. They better got rid of the DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least the old version of this thing was infested with one of the worst (to the user) DRM schemes in history.

    1. Re:They better got rid of the DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least the old version of this thing was infested with one of the worst (to the user) DRM schemes in history.

      WTH?

      Care to elaborate on that? I recall it being a simple cd check that was removed rather quickly with a patch.

  12. Not a source release... by Shaterri · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While it's unsurprising given that the current Unreal Engine is still in active development and a ton of commercial games are still being developed and shipped using it, it's worth pointing out that this isn't a source code release; instead, it's something much closer to an elaborate mod engine, with generous swaths of behavioral scripting but no real ability to get 'under the hood' as it were. Still, kudos to Epic for this; it'll be interesting to see who picks up the ball and runs with this.

    1. Re:Not a source release... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well of course it's not a source release. They aren't going to give away the sources for free when they are still licensing out the engine to make money. That would be monumentally stupid.

    2. Re:Not a source release... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that, I haven't had much time to read into this (at work and all). I was actually pretty excited, I like the Unreal Engine for its shaders more than anything else. I like to get my hands on the real gooey stuff, to take what bits and pieces I like and leave the rest. I'd rather develop my own game with my own patchwork engine rather then make an Epic Mod for Unreal (Pun fully intended).

    3. Re:Not a source release... by Evildonald · · Score: 1

      It would appear that this guy did:
      UDK Showcase - The Ball

    4. Re:Not a source release... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want the source code you have to fork over a good amount of money for a full commercial license for the engine. The source code isn't included because Epic still wants to make money from the engine.

  13. Behind ID? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well I guess if your goal is to GPL engine then ok. However in general that isn't the goal of a company, they want to make money so they can do things like pay their employees to develop more software. So how have licensing the engines gone? Well Unreal Engine 3, which was released after iD Tech 4, has about 150 games out using it. iD Tech 4? 7 games.

    So I'd say Epic has been pretty successful at their primary goal of making a good engine that people wish to license for designing games.

    1. Re:Behind ID? by nschubach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Frankly, I have no problem with that model to help indie and poorer developers make their mark. It improves the field by keeping companies on their toes constantly improving and allows people with little/no upstart cost get a foot in the door.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Behind ID? by stikves · · Score: 5, Informative

      John Carmack specifically told he did not want to be like Epic. They had (relatively) huge success with Quake 3 engine sales, however he had to spend lots of time for technical support of engine licensees, while he could've spend those times on this on games.

      Please look at this:
      http://kotaku.com/5339057/john-carmack-ok-with-id-not-becoming-an-epic-or-valve

    3. Re:Behind ID? by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, his stirring, creative games that would be amazing even without a nice set of graphics tech running them. I know the first time I killed the Cyberdemon in Doom I nearly wept, it was like a modern re-imagining of a Greek tragedy.

      Okay, that's getting pretty thick there but lets get one thing out of the way: Id's claim to fame has been sweet tech demos, they've yet to make some kind of interesting innovation that isn't a technical one.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    4. Re:Behind ID? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, iD = very nice tech demo, same old game you've seen 1 million+ times already. Also I would think Carmack would be able to hire a few support people if they had 150+ licenses sold, thus freeing him up to start working on the next version of the engine.

    5. Re:Behind ID? by Mia'cova · · Score: 1

      But you do gain through the support. Epic hires people into support roles. I doubt Tim does much hands-on support these days. He probably views their dev forums and comments on the interesting stuff when he's bored. But every bug filed by a partner goes towards improving the core engine. And that kind of test coverages goes a long long way towards improving everyone's lives. Chances are you'll have a significantly smoother dev cycle with that number of developers hammering on the same codebase together. So from a technology point of view, it's better to have those users. If you want to lock yourself away and work on whatever you want, not so much. Carmack obviously isn't a sellout. I can understand why he'd rather work on a smaller project.

    6. Re:Behind ID? by physburn · · Score: 1
      Great so many more 3d games all with the same technology behind them will be made. Unfortantantly many will have really cheap artistry and gameplay design, making the engine look bad. Hopefully a few really good independent games will come out of this through.

      ---

      3D Shooter Games Feed @ Feed Distiller

    7. Re:Behind ID? by Sam+Douglas · · Score: 1

      But if the cost of the engine license is about $100,000 (for example), that might pay for one supporting programmer for a year and a half. The support roles however are not just hand-holding jobs, and require the input of people who know the codebase well.

    8. Re:Behind ID? by ed1park · · Score: 1

      "I know the first time I killed the Cyberdemon in Doom I nearly wept"

      Ha! This comment made me go buy ultimate doom and relive the old days. :) I forgot where most of the secrets were, so I went to utube for walkthroughs and came across this insanity. enjoi!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorJfexzF4M&feature=autofb

  14. The Catch? by cigawoot · · Score: 0

    There has to be a catch... probably have to distribute the game for free. If you choose to go commercial, you've gotta license out the full engine.

    1. Re:The Catch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Epic said game developers, students, hobbyists, researchers, creators of 3D visualizations and simulations plus digital filmmakers can all take advantage of the UDK for non-commercial use

      Gold star for reading the summary!

    2. Re:The Catch? by Disgruntled+Goats · · Score: 1

      How can it be a "catch" when they clearly state the terms of use of this? From here:

      Use of the UDK for noncommercial purposes is free of charge. If you are going to use the UDK for any commercial purpose or in any way that is not specifically authorized in the end-user license agreement (EULA), you must agree to appropriate commercial terms. You can read more about these options below.

    3. Re:The Catch? by keithjr · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's Windows-only and still closed-source, so that's enough of a catch, really. This is a free dev kit, not an id-style open source release of the engine (title was kind of misleading).

    4. Re:The Catch? by Disgruntled+Goats · · Score: 1

      This is a free dev kit, not an id-style open source release of the engine (title was kind of misleading).

      Where did the title or summary say this was a source release? It's a free release of a dev kit for non commercial use. Which is what the summary and the links say. That you assumed it meant something other than what was explicitly stated is your own poor reading comprehension skills at work.

  15. Why I like Unreal by Hythlodaeus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having modded for a few different games, I really appreciate the Unreal engine for one specific reason: it assumes that all the space you haven't touched is filled rather than empty. That way, creating the basic flow of a level is just a matter of drawing out a cuboid per room and subtracting it from the filled space. By contrast, the id style starting with empty space requires you to create a cuboid for each wall, ceiling, and floor. There's a three page tutorial on how to make all the seams line up properly - and heaven help you if your room isn't a simple rectangle.

    --
    For great justice.
    1. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It actually gives you the option. UnrealEd asks you everytime you create a new level if you want to use additive or subtractive geometry. But that's only used for BSP really, and many games now ship without BSP geo at all, using static meshes all the way.

    2. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember many a night spent building levels for the pure fun of it in UT level editor. I can't wait to see how this UDK plays out. I might even be inspired to start working with the system again and waste my time more and more. :)

    3. Re:Why I like Unreal by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I haven't done any modding or level creation recently, but wasn't Quake 1 subtractive as well? I remember building levels using subtraction a lot and I loved the method.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:Why I like Unreal by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      The problem usually solved in other engines by putting a couple 0-depth 1 sided inverted boxes (There's totally a name for it other than "Shell" but I can't remember it) outside the realm of play and using that to cut off rendering, like a hullbox or whatever, then using one giant Brush inside of that and carving your map out of that. But it is annoying to make sure your brushes are snapping together properly and you can get some ugly leaks if you're not careful. For MOST people's map design, or essentially anything indoors - Subtractive is the way to go.

      I only use Additive when I'm importing a landscape made in 3dsmax or Maya, Where essentially a 1 sided Terrain inside a skybox is all that needs to be rendered. Subtractive has had a few issues when trying to do this (in my experience).

    5. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope. Quake 1's .bsp files were empty space with blocks added. You probably created one large block and then used a map editor's hollow feature to achieve the same thing (functionally).

    6. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about starting an id map by drawing a huge brush from -MINX,-MINY,-MINZ to MAXX,MAXY,MAXZ and then subtracting stuff from it?

    7. Re:Why I like Unreal by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      That's the way the DOOM II engine worked. No gaps = good.

    8. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No... They need the level editor to prompt them with an option for "subtractive editing" and put the 1 big brush in the editing space for them.

    9. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that would be horrible. you would end up with all sorts of malformed brush fragments and lots of tiny portals. i'm also not sure how you would specify detail brushes. making the entire thing out of structural brushes would be murder on performance and compile time (IF you could even compile it with the massive vis size you are likely to have).

      the best way to build a map in any quake engine is with an approximately shaped caulk hull and then adding details and meshes inside of that.

    10. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually UE3 can use either a subtractive or additive BSP system for world building. In a subtractive level you start with an infinite mass and cut out of it, but in an additive system you do the opposite. Most games now hardly even use the BSP system and rely on static meshes and terrain to make up the world. The additive system is the way to go now because you can have huge unenclosed environments. With subtractive you had to do all of these lighting tricks to make the enclosure look like a sky, or you had to jump through hoops to hide the enclosure.

    11. Re:Why I like Unreal by harry666t · · Score: 1

      Anon is right, it's called CSG substract. And also, it is evil. I don't remember the exact reason why it was evil (I haven't done any mapping for quite a while and I forgot a lot of the theory), but generally on every mapping/modding forum everyone would tell you not to use it.

      Drawing floors, walls, and ceilings by hand, no matter how painful may it seem compared to drawing just the inside and hitting the magic button, is the way to go. If you'd be modelling a wall that is visible from both sides (for example a building in an outdoor area which you can enter), you're going to put a little more effort to properly shaping the brushes at the corners anyway, as to avoid either overdraw or texture-caulk z-fighting in the editor (which looks ugly).

      It's a shame that building GtkRadiant on linux is virtually impossible these days. Code rot - the project is like, dead. I've once managed to get it running on some another machine, but it broke since then.

    12. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      CSG subtract is only evil if used irresponsibly or by the inexperienced. I use it all of the time to cut out odd shapes, then go in with manual clipper and CSG merge to minimise or just reorganise brush fragments. Z-fighting with caulk surfaces isn't a problem in game since caulk is invisible. It is also sometimes the best way to build certain areas, for example, a room with walls that are entirely made up of patch meshes or an area with walls that are made of multiple brushes.

    13. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to 4 years ago!

      You're thinking of Unreal Engine 1 and 2. Unreal Engine 3 is additive (big empty world), however you can still add a big cube and subtract from it if you feel so inclined.

    14. Re:Why I like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not true, or at least not quite. UE3 is additive now as opposed to previous versions which were subtractive as you say. It has an option to 'fake' subtractive, but there are lots of stories of maps running significantly slower if they're built in subtractive mode like this.

    15. Re:Why I like Unreal by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Seconded. I don't know how it's in the most recent engines. But Doom 3's level editor was a real piece of shit.

      While i really liked the Unreal ones.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    16. Re:Why I like Unreal by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      It's a shame that building GtkRadiant on linux is virtually impossible these days. Code rot - the project is like, dead. I've once managed to get it running on some another machine, but it broke since then.

      Tried DarkRadiant? Granted, it's only for Doom 3 engine and I haven't tried to build it from source, but at least it's actively developed.

    17. Re:Why I like Unreal by harry666t · · Score: 1

      You know what? It works. Builds smoothly. Runs flawlessly. Now just gotta get Doom3. Damn it, I hate you. I wasn't supposed to ever touch mapping again, and not being able to run Radiant on Linux was what was keeping me sane. I'm an addict. Now I'm going to abandon all my other projects, quit my job, break up with my girlfriend, and spend next ten months doing an epic map. :(

      Thanks :D

    18. Re:Why I like Unreal by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      Glad to be of help! And when you grab Doom3, be sure to check out The Dark Mod, which was just released and doesn't have too many maps yet. They will probably appreciate all the help they can get from competent mappers. (Not barely-qualified ever-noobs like me who made a few really horrible Q3 maps. It will be years before I'll make a good mission for this mod. They seem to have terrifyingly high standards. =)

  16. Alot of people don't appreciate this by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But each release of the Unreal Engine actually changes the Game development scene for alot of game development, not just modding community pertaining to Unreal games. Given Unreal 3 is staarrting to get old, this is probably too late to boost the game back into the light of gamers but Unreal has always had this precedence in the scene of developing.

    For example, I myself usually develop with the source Engine. I find it easy to use, and probably more importantly, I find Hammer easier to create maps with instead of the Unreal Editor. In one particular scenario I wanted to have a marsh with really cool fog and properly dripping water and fireflies and all this jazz. Now Source while a great PHYSICS engine isn't as fine tuned towards the details as other engines tend to be. I've found that Valve will only update the Shaders to really meet their own needs, and other little things like that - but I mean you can't complain when they are giving it out for free, right? Anyways, Unreal has been pretty good with those kinds of effects - just look at ANY screenshot of their maps, or any video of the gameplay. I was able to look into Unreal and use their structure as a basis for my own particle effects, after all, I don't want it to look EXACTLY like an UT2K3 Map. Worked like a charm. Now, before you jut in, yes, I know Steam has their own FX for this kind of stuff. But its actually pretty taxing on the system, they still haven't quite seemed to nail fog down as it lags quite a bit (See CS:S When multiple smoke nades go off)

    So, the next time you think "Unreal, who cares?" - remember that while they seem to be declining a bit in their sales of games, their rendering technology is still amongst the best free stuff out there. And every bit they give to their community is another bit to every community.

    1. Re:Alot of people don't appreciate this by kikito · · Score: 1

      Also UnrealScript >>>>>> every other scripting language under the Sun

    2. Re:Alot of people don't appreciate this by BauerUK · · Score: 1

      No way, concrete is totally better than marshmallows!

    3. Re:Alot of people don't appreciate this by Abcd1234 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Oh for goodness sake... 'alot' is not a word! :)

    4. Re:Alot of people don't appreciate this by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Have you looked into what they planned for the Unreal 4 engine? It looks really great. Unreal 3 is now nearing its EOL anyway.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  17. Nice one editors. by anomnomnomymous · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow, I got to say I'm impressed with the /. editors. After hastily submitting this story at work, I only had links to the Unity3D- and UDK- sites in there. Whereas the text is still the same as I submitted it, the editors done a great job in actually providing some extra informative links in there.
    Well done!

    On topic: I think this is a very smart move by Epic. It's great to be able to tinker with a top quality engine without having to buy any of their games first. This can definitely come in use for the scientific community, where you would like other people to download your, for example, simulations, and not be constrained by them having to own a game on which it runs.
    Also, as some people above mentioned, this is great for some indie developers, who can now build a complete game, see if it's feasible, and if the end-product is to their liking, they can decide to license the engine and sell it.

    Of course I'd prefer them to release the whole source, but that can't really be expected of an engine that is still commercially available.

    Overall, great move Epic!

    --
    When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
    1. Re:Nice one editors. by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow, I got to say I'm impressed with the /. editors. After hastily submitting this story at work, I only had links to the Unity3D- and UDK- sites in there. Whereas the text is still the same as I submitted it, the editors done a great job in actually providing some extra informative links in there.
      Well done!

      After that statement, I had to check my URLs and DNS cache to make sure I wasn't on some Bizarro Slashdot.

      Just kidding, editors. I actually appreciate what you guys do for us here.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Nice one editors. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Ditto. I actually really like their business model. It encourages community development alot, which means when I pay 60 bucks for a game, I get more than whats just in the case. And even better, if you've EVER been interested in starting your own game, Unreal is a good place to start (Though probably the first Unreal Engine if you have little to no experience). You can go down to your local bookstore (Chapters or Indigo) and grab a book on game development and They usually bundle a CD with either the Doom or Quake or Unreal Engines.

      It's kind of got a "Hey, we like you. Here. Naw its cool" kind of mentality while at the same time being all like "Hey man, cool stuff, but at least half of that was our work. So here's a flat rate"

      Perfectly square and fair with an air of awesomeness.

    3. Re:Nice one editors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a fantastic thing for science IF:
              1. It runs in linux. Most Scientific codes run in some *nix type environment
              2. Its fairly simple to make a world, put stuff into it and make that stuff move.

      Looks like its a windows only download, hence I'm not so sure people like me will actually try it even.

      4. Meh.

    4. Re:Nice one editors. by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``Of course I'd prefer them to release the whole source, but that can't really be expected of an engine that is still commercially available.''

      Sometimes, I wonder why companies don't just license the engine as open source and sell the actual game. Let someone else do maintenance and porting on the engine while you focus on the artwork and the story line.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  18. fail - windows only by bl8n8r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Anyone can try out the Unreal Development Kit powered by Unreal Engine 3" ...as long as your on windows

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
    1. Re:fail - windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, shut up.

      And I think you mean "...as long as you're on windows"

    2. Re:fail - windows only by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      You not using the company name in describing their action = Epic Fail.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    3. Re:fail - windows only by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      I'm so disappointed to hear that my dream of a UE powered Tux Racer is no longer a possibility. Whatever.

    4. Re:fail - windows only by brkello · · Score: 1

      And this is a problem why? Not everything has to be ported to Linux to be worthwhile. Them releasing it is a good thing. When something is only released on Linux, is that a fail too? The OS bias on this site is pathetic sometimes.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    5. Re:fail - windows only by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      "Anyone can try out the Unreal Development Kit powered by Unreal Engine 3" ...as long as your on windows

      Very few people are going to seriously try and do 2D texturing on any other platform anyway, although I know 3D work is possible on FOSS, via Blender.

      Nobody who is Linux-only, is that way because of Windows' expense. Pirated Windows is available pretty much anywhere, and for all Microsoft's noise to the contrary, that is exactly how they like it.

      Nobody who uses FreeBSD is FreeBSD-only, either. It is pure FSF cultism that causes Linux users to want to be single platform.

      Refraining from dual booting because it's somehow "impure," is just dumb zealotry. The Gimp is good for quick jobs and some post stuff, but it's still not Photoshop. Photoshop itself isn't the only good art package available for Windows, either.

  19. Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by DrYak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please point me to GPL'ed sources of ID software engine technology equivalent to the technology described in TFA. Thanks.

    Xreal
    Heavily improved version of the (GPLed) Id Tech 3 engine. Includes features such as shadow mapping, per pixel lightning, etc... bringing the whole project visually closer to what's available in modern engines.
    Other questions ?

    ----

    More seriously :

    Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

    Whereas giving complete freedom to tinker with the GPL is the most community enabling. Granted, id Tech 5 is not in the GPL now. But on the other hand, the full freedom offered by the GPL has enabled heavy customisation such as the above and many other. And in the long term, are much more valuable for creativity.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Disgruntled+Goats · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

      Oh noes! Epic actually wants people to use their technology and make money from it! The horror! The horror!

    2. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Teckla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...the full freedom offered by the GPL

      The GPL does not offer full freedom. Public domain offers full freedom.

    3. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      The GPL does not offer full freedom. Public domain offers full freedom.

      Full freedom is a myth. A complete lack of rules results in tyranny, every time, because there's no rule against and mechanism to prevent some people taking away other people's freedom. Maximizing freedom involves finding the set of rules and mechanisms that give the most people the most freedom.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    4. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence why the BSD and BSD-like licenses are far better than the GPL.

    5. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by spitzak · · Score: 1

      Public domain does not offer full freedom.

      Full freedom would be to have a hyper-intelligent oracle that produces a completely bug-free and perfect implemention of any software idea you can imagine, with infinite resources behind it and available to everybody instantly and with no cost.

    6. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by adisakp · · Score: 1

      More seriously :

      Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

      Whereas giving complete freedom to tinker with the GPL is the most community enabling. Granted, id Tech 5 is not in the GPL now. But on the other hand, the full freedom offered by the GPL has enabled heavy customisation such as the above and many other. And in the long term, are much more valuable for creativity.

      Lets say someone makes a Killer-App (or more likely a kick-ass demo that will lead to further funding to complete the game) with either of these engines.

      With Epic's Unreal Engine, they can make a game that can target PS3 and XBOX 360 markets which are significantly larger than the PC market. The can also make a closed source commercial game that targets the PC market. It's possible that Epic even intends to use this as an incubator to fund projects. Killer App --> Potential Profit.

      With a GPL game engine, they have to open-source all of their code (hence not allowing them to target consoles). They can't even just license the several year old engine technology from ID if they want to go closed source (i.e. for PS3 / XBOX dev) because there have been other contributions. They basically have to "give away" the game for free since once you've released full source code for your game, there is pretty much no reason to buy it. The only chance for profit is by doing stuff like server based in-game content purchases (i.e. Second Life). Killer App --> ??? --> Profit -- if you can fill in the "???" part, you'll make me believe it's better to use the GPL engine. I guess the "???" part could be do all the work over in a closed-source engine and then ship but at that point, why not just start with a closed-source engine.

      Now, if there was a high-end BSD-licensed game engine (as opposed to GPL), then this discussion would be moot and I'd be in agreement to use the BSD engine.

    7. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Rhacman · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how this explains that something public domain is not fully free. If I write some code and release it into the public domain how does someone else come along and take away that freedom without bringing down my website? If a person improves upon my code and sells it in binary form only I don't see how that hurts me or the community since they still have access to the original public domain code. I get where the whole open source movement is going in that they want you to pay not so much in cash but in contribution to the community but I don't see how that makes material in the public domain any less free, it's just a different objective.

      --
      Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
    8. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by FingerDemon · · Score: 1

      But I thought freedom was just another word for having nothing left to lose?

      Now, I'm so confused...

      --

      "Contrarily the lookaside buffer might not be the panacea... "
    9. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given the amount of talk on this, has anyone else read the licensing page? Development is free and the royalty is 25%. Twenty-five percent. Rapid prototype your game in Unreal and then port it over to a free engine and you pay nothing. Or keep it in Unreal, take the 25% hit and have a damn good game out there while you work on the next one.

      Whereas giving complete freedom to tinker with the GPL is the most community enabling. Granted, id Tech 5 is not in the GPL now. But on the other hand, the full freedom offered by the GPL has enabled heavy customisation such as the above and many other. And in the long term, are much more valuable for creativity.

      Or from another perspective, the license is entirely irrelevant to *creativity* when the tools are as beneficial for creation as Unreal's. The biggest barrier to making games isn't the engine license, it's making all the decisions, code and content. Unreal didn't get to be the most widely licensed engine because it looks awesome, it's behind a lot of other engines in that respect. It's just so damn easy to make games with.

    10. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      It's like you're saying 'entropy always increases in a closed system' except we're not talking about a closed system. What you say is true, but does not apply to the specific context of intellectual property. Public domain material is, within its own context, fully free, and there is no way that it can in of itself lead to tyranny either.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    11. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Xreal is nowhere near the level of technical capabilities of UE3, sorry.

      The rest of your post was a goofy anti-capitalist rant where you actually complain about somebody giving something away for free to attract people to the commercial version (aka, shareware). You even use the trite phrase "marketing ploy." Congrats on being predictable.

    12. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      The GPL offers enforced freedom... and not just to you.

    13. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Draek · · Score: 1

      Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

      Well, yes. Much like the cute girl at the supermarket offering you to try some cookies is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to attract more customers in the long term, by gaining more fans and cookie-addicts in the short term. However, it's still a free cookie so go, grab it and eat it. They get some extra marketing, cute girl keeps her job, you get a cookie, win for all involved.

      Sure it'd be best if it was all GPL, BSD or whatever, but this is still a good step so I'll congratulate them for it.

      And sightly off-topic comment: amazing how much like UT3 do those XreaL screenshots look, huh? ;)

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    14. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly can you do in UE3 that you can't do in Xreal?

    15. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by mog007 · · Score: 1

      The only issue with public domain that I see as a potential problem, is somebody taking the public domain code, adapting it to suit their needs without disclosing their own modifications, and selling it.

      Without any sort of licensing, people could keep the code for their own profit without offering insight to the person or people who made it.

      Of course, anybody who puts their code in the public domain would be aware of that risk.

    16. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      That's the point of public domain. It's the "do what you want, I don't care" option.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    17. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by GF678 · · Score: 1

      Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

      Oh noes! Epic actually wants people to use their technology and make money from it! The horror! The horror!

      No need to get smarmy with the poster. I see nothing he wrote that is likely to be untrue. Doesn't make things "bad", but it's still a truth.

    18. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't make something public domain for benefit. You do it because you want to share what you have unconditionally.

      The GPL expects something in return so it isn't free, it just cuts out the monetary middleman.

      I don't think either method is wrong, they are just different mindsets.

    19. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Homburg · · Score: 1

      Heavily improved version of the (GPLed) Id Tech 3 engine.

      Right - it's not an example of id's technology equivalent to UE3 that id have GPLed. It's an example of a much earlier id technology that has been improved by someone else.

    20. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by simplerThanPossible · · Score: 1

      EP$C is the new M$

    21. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Giving away free (gratis) access to some proprietary technology is nothing more than a complex marketing ploy to try to attract more commercial licensee in the long term, by gaining more fans and hackers in the short term. The basic idea is "let the Indie market play around with the engine, and if some group emerge with a new killer-app, they'll have to license our engine".

      Whereas giving complete freedom to tinker with the GPL is the most community enabling. Granted, id Tech 5 is not in the GPL now. But on the other hand, the full freedom offered by the GPL has enabled heavy customisation such as the above and many other. And in the long term, are much more valuable for creativity.

      Creativity? Show me anything similar to Red Orchestra: Ostfront 1941-45 or Killing Floor, quality-wise, built on a FOSS engine.

    22. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by wertigon · · Score: 1

      They basically have to "give away" the game for free since once you've released full source code for your game, there is pretty much no reason to buy it.

      And what, exactly, is preventing one to sell the other parts of the game? A game is more than just it's engine and engine code. There's music, 3D-art, textures, maps and a whole slew of other *content* one could sell, while still giving away the engine for free. And any enhancements to the game engine can go back upstream, as well. It's a win/win.

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
    23. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Sam+Douglas · · Score: 1

      . They basically have to "give away" the game for free since once you've released full source code for your game, there is pretty much no reason to buy it.

      In Tech3, the game code is written in C and targets a virtual machine. id released the game code and tools to use it with the released version, allowing a strong modding community to arise and just an opportunity for people to learn from the Q3 game logic.

      ID later released the Tech3 engine and game code under the GPL. You could probably completely rewrite the game code license it under a non-GPL license (it only communicates with the engine via syscalls) and only have to distributed the engine source code, which is probably largely code written by others anyway. If you made any improvements you would have to release those too, but that's not really a problem and is contributing back to the community.

    24. Re:Xreal, evolution Q3, etc... by Sam+Douglas · · Score: 1

      That's unrelated to licensing. Tech3 isn't exactly the easiest engine to use unless you are trying to make a Quake style game, whereas RO is built on the Unreal 2 engine which already has support for vehicles and a bunch of other stuff completely outside the scope of the Quake engine. The Unreal engine is seriously overengineered (in the good way) which makes it very moddable.

  20. That's a pretty steep roalty agreement. Isn't it? by mfactor · · Score: 1

    25% of revenue after the first $5000. I understand that there's a TON of code there, but they don't come up with the idea, or market and sell the results. 1/4 of revenues seems like a pretty big chunk to take. Or am I wrong? Is this really a good deal for an indie game developer?

  21. Re:That's a pretty steep roalty agreement. Isn't i by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The engine is without a doubt -THE- hardest part of development. I myself have only ever hacked together Frankenstein Engines using bits from everywhere, and never really added my own component (why write your own when someone else already has). With the engine out of the way, a feature Length Game can be done in as little as 6 months*, tested, released, and on the shelf in about a year.

    *This is assuming you've got one guy with the ideas who fleshes out a story, 1 guy who does the artwork (both concept and in game), and 1 guy who does the Coding/maping/debugging.

    How long do games usually take to make from scratch? Lets See, Half Life 2, about a decade, Unreal 3 from Unreal 2K4 was 3 years, Duke Nukem Forever, ha ha - but do you see my point?

    Summary: The Engine is more than half of a games development. (IMHO)

  22. You're all wrong by earnest+murderer · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mario Brothers was the originator even if they didn't have a booming voice letting everyone know about it.

    --
    Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
  23. More SF CGI-only fan productions now? by macraig · · Score: 1

    Yay!

  24. Royalties? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to use this for commercial purposes,

    > and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue above $5,000 (US).

    Nope, going open-source.

  25. Re:Why I USED TO like Unreal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I did a considerable amount of mapping and modding for UT'99 through to UT2k4. Although UnrealED was a bit of a bear, it was easy to use. UnrealScript and the art of making mutators was wonderfully simple, much better than clunking around with DLL's like the Quake world.

    UT'99 was bliss to play. So many maps, mods and mutators. But then came UT2k3 and the damnable "Standard Server" switch. Suddenly Epic made the entire spectrum of Unreal maps and mods completely invisible. TO the uninitiated, the "Standard Server" switch, which is enabled by default, basically filters out any server that isn't running a stock UT server with default settings. Run a mutator, and BAM! you were off the list (unless you unclicked the standard server check box, which 99% of the players did NOT).

    Yes, with UT2k4 they introduced "whitelists" and "blacklists" and all kinds of bullshit to allow "certain kinds" of mutators, but whatever. Why bother making a system that is so insanely configurable if you're going to punish people for actually doing it? All they managed to do was create a server list full of clones, all running the same damn thing (Usually DM-Antalaus). No variety, no mutators, no mods.

    Screw Epic. And I'm still pissed off at CliffyB blaming the PC market for the failure of the craptastic UT3.

  26. much appreciated by Eil · · Score: 1

    No thanks, we've already got 3 Quake engines and a bunch of quality open-source developed ones. But we greatly appreciate the gesture!

    1. Re:much appreciated by h00manist · · Score: 1

      yes, but i don't see why Linux distributions never come with these games installed, or even with a simple "install games" menu. sudo apt get quake3 tremulous openarena takes vastly longer to find than an XP cd and a friend that knows what to do with it. there are constant requests to reformat store-supplied linux boxes, with pity and pain, but that's what the client wants and is paying for...

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  27. Still waiting for Linux UT3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Two years after they said it would be available, UT3 for Linux is still vaporware. I'm not that impressed by Epic's latest attempt to stay relevant.

  28. Re: Often an engine is 0% of a games development by rd1 · · Score: 1

    Just a small point - but very often game development doesn't involve building an engine at all because an existing general engine is used. The situation isn't all that different to building a database application - you could start by building a database engine, but to do that right it'll be much more than half your time. Or, you could use one of the existing database engines. Many game engines are flexible enough now that you can do everything you need to for a wide variety of games without modifying the core engine itself.

  29. Not open enough by ScaledLizard · · Score: 0

    I keep wondering what the gaming community would be like if we used a single, open source gaming engine, standardized much like a CD player, as a platform for most games. No matter the underlying hardware, it would just take your content and play it. As an open platform, games running inside it would be easy to mod and easy to maintain after the next DirectX or Windows release. The games wouldn't care if they run under Windows, Mac or Linux, they might even boot directly from CD as we had in the Amiga days (Knoppix+game engine...). Special features needed by the games would be integrated preferredly as scripts, or as pluggable modules if necessary. Pluggable modules would require an open interface specification to make ports to other or newer platforms possible. Development costs would drop as there really is only a single platform to support.

    Of course, Microsoft or Sony might be in trouble if it happened, so we may never see it. But even EA has spoken up for such a solution, as slashdotted here: http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/10/19/1410234.shtml

  30. Altair IV by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

    Full freedom would be to have a hyper-intelligent oracle that produces a completely bug-free and perfect implemention of any software idea you can imagine, with infinite resources behind it and available to everybody instantly and with no cost.

    A civilization without instrumentalities ?

    Yes, but the Krell forgot one thing - monsters from the Id !

    --
    Squirrel!
  31. Re: Often an engine is 0% of a games development by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

    This is true, but rarely do you get one that is of high enough standards for todays gaming environment (Which is why every release of the Unreal, Source, Doom, Quake, etc... is such a big deal)

    The Original Half Life Series is run off a modified Quake Engine, I believe. and I wouldn't be surprised if the first Unreal Tournament did too. But when you look at how the Unreal engine has evolved and how Source has evolved they are very different.

    If you aren't modifying the engine at all, what you're mostly doing is an elaborate Mod (See Total Conversions). If it looks like a duck, Renders like a duck, and handles lighting like a duck, it still feels like a duck when you play it, no matter how much you alter speeds/weapons/textures/Maps. Even when you take an FPS designed Engine and try to run an RTS on it, you will typically have to write in your own scripting.

  32. It's NOT FREE!! by greggman · · Score: 1

    It's free to use. It is not free to distribute games, even FREE games. Make a simple game, give your brother a free copy and you are required to PAY!

    Free is cool but their license is kind of scammy in the way it slides in those requirements. It will be interesting to see them try to enforce it as unsuspecting users who didn't actually read the licensing details.

    1. Re:It's NOT FREE!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is UDK really free for me to use?
              Absolutely. Download UDK, create your project and distribute it completely free of cost.

      Licensing

      Use of the UDK for noncommercial purposes is free of charge. If you are going to use the UDK for any commercial purpose or in any way that is not specifically authorized in the end-user license agreement (EULA), you must agree to appropriate commercial terms.

      So basically, you're wrong. Only if you SELL your creation or use it in some commercial way do you have to pay for it.

      It's 100% FREE for non-commercial purposes, so go ahead and make and distribute your free game with it.

    2. Re:It's NOT FREE!! by greggman · · Score: 1

      Sorry but their definition of USE is that YOU personally USE the software, not that you distribute make something with it and give that away.

      "If you are creating a game or commercial application using UDK for sale or distribution to an end-user or client, or if you are providing services in connection with a game or application, the per-seat option does not apply. Instead the license terms for this arrangement are US $99 (Ninety Nine US Dollars) up-front, and a 0% royalty on you or your company's first $5,000 (US) in UDK related revenue, and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue above $5,000 (US). UDK related revenue includes, but is not limited to, monies earned from: sales, services, training, advertisements, sponsorships, endorsements, memberships, subscription fees, rentals and pay-to-play."

      Notice is says game OR commerical app, and it says sale OR distribution. In other words, if you make a game, and you distribute it you have to pay. That's regardless of whether the game is free or not.

    3. Re:It's NOT FREE!! by h00manist · · Score: 1

      you are required to PAY!

      egads!

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  33. Re:That's a pretty steep roalty agreement. Isn't i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't know what you are talking about. The creation of the game assets (story, dialogue, models, textures, maps, shaders, scripts, particles, sounds and music) are by far more time consuming and arduous then writing the game engine. These days with DirectX, OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL, PhysX, Bullet, etc. you basically already have an engine, you just need a glue program to put it all together.

  34. UT3 engine vs. UDK engine render quality by apn_k · · Score: 1

    I found a site that shows off the difference between the engine version used in UT3 (version 3809) and the UDK engine (version 5860): http://www.laurenscorijn.com/udk-comparision.html

  35. Sellouts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows only, nonfree, and trying to get every penny they can. Oh and pretty sure they stopped icculus from finishing his port of UT3 to linux thanks to gates holding the xbox360 liscensing over their heads. Bah, sellouts.

  36. A question of perspective... by DrYak · · Score: 1

    It's a question of perspective.

    GPL enforces full freedom for the end-user.

    GPL, specially version 3, makes it so that - no matter what happens, you'll always be guaranteed to hack your freedom to tinker and hack whatever GPLv3 software you stumble upon.

    Whereas a public domain software could still be locked behind some patent or blob-signing mechanism.
    So you find a device, using some public domain software in its firmware. Theoretically you are allowed by the public domain status to do whatever you want with the software. Except that actually you can't, because the device checks the firmware's signature and will refuse to run whatever you want it to.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  37. Tivo-isation. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Public domain material is, within its own context, fully free, and there is no way that it can in of itself lead to tyranny either.

    Two words :
    Code signing

    If the device on which the public domain soft runs use signature checking, no matter how much "free" the public domain status is supposed to be, you're still restricted to exercise your freedom to hack it.

    GPL, specially version 3, is designed to enforce passing freedoms to the next user in chain. From the users' perspective, GPL offers more freedom.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  38. The end user's POV. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    That's the point of public domain. It's the "do what you want, I don't care" option.

    From a corporation's point of view - yes.

    But *not* from a end-users point of view. GPL is the only license which enforce the his/her freedom to "do what you want", by blocking whatever a corporation may try to invent to stop the user's right to exercice the "do what you want".

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]