Norwegian Court Rules ISP Doesn't Have To Block The Pirate Bay

C4st13v4n14 writes "In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday, a Norwegian District Court handed down the decision that Telenor, Norway's largest ISP, will not have to block access to The Pirate Bay. Telenor was sued earlier this year by the IFPI after being threatened and not backing down. 'The court ruled that Telenor is not contributing to any infringements of copyright law when its subscribers use The Pirate Bay, and therefore there is no legal basis for forcing the ISP to block access to the site. ... In making its decision, the court also had to examine the repercussions if it ruled that Telenor and other ISPs had to block access to certain websites.'"

Comments

I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[MrLeap]

Why is norway always ahead of the curve in nearly everything?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Nuno Sa]

It's cold there... Anyway it's nice to see that some countries have not fallen for the global brainwashing taking place today around the world.

Congrats to them!
(It's here, the dark ages began: we have to congratulate common sense)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[haruchai]

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[dgatwood]

Four out of five isn't bad, I suppose. *sigh*

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[saladpuncher]

Norway is excellent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/norway-best-place-to-live_n_309698.html and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTzbj3fRSw and yes, hot women

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[mark_hill97]

I beg to differ

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Like grilling bits of meat, mixing starch and dairy/fat is almost impossible to screw up. It's not a good indicator of how good the local food is.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday..

I shall be a bit pedantic that this isn't the first time the Norwegian courts actually use reason and rational assessment before issuing a verdict.

A man was taken to court for uploading a pirated version of the Norwegian movie "Falne Engler" and was let go with a warning. This and the fact that Kripos (special investigation unit) refused to "waste resources" investigating illegal file sharing (though also because of the current Norwegian law makes it difficult to prosecute anyone for file sharing); has members of the Norwegian movie/music/whatever lobby fuming.
Rudimentary translated quote from Ketil Haukaas, assistant chief of Kripos
We have dedicated investigators in some areas, like war crimes and internet related abuse of children. File sharing doesn't not warrant that kind of priority

Vi har dedikerte etterforskere på noen områder, som krigsforbrytelser og internettrelaterte overgrep mot barn. Problemområdet fildeling tilsier ikke en slik prioritet at det er en fornuftig vei å gå

Up to the point that article was written (in 2008) 182 reports of illegal file sharing had been delivered by IFPI; four were investigated and the only case "solved" was the one I mentioned earlier where the perpetrator was let go with a warning.

So this "out break of common sense" wasn't exactly sudden.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[roguetrick]

Now to learn norwegian. Du lukter dritgodt.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

From the Huffingtonpost article "Norway's consistently high rating for desirable living standards, is, in large part, the result of the discovery of offshore oil and gas deposits in the late 1960s."

What isn't mentioned is that when oil and gas were discovered the Norwegian government decided to nationalize those resources (meaning state owned and operated) as the profit from such industry should benefit all the citizens of Norway. They then proceeded to borrow tons of money from various other nations with security in future revenue and spent that money (and the mentioned future revenue; now past and present revenue) to invest heavily in infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads and etc). Also they offered public scholarships and decent student loans to everyone with the grades to get into a University; as a highly educated population was, and is, seen as beneficial to Norwegian society.

Norway, as the other nations of Scandinavia (to a varying degree); are Social democracies (as in Socialist Democracies); which is held, at least by the center->left side of politics (and to be fair some on the right in Norway are to the left of those on the left in nations like the US) as the reason for our high standard of living up to this point.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

Forgot to add that Norway is today a so called mixed economical system as we use democratic reforms and reason to mix socialistic and capitalistic ideas to achieve balance.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

What does "local food" mean anyway? If you mean traditional foods, they're pretty weird everywhere for outsiders (and well I dont even like some of my country's ones and think they're just weird). Now a days you can pretty much get any kind of food anywhere you like, so it doesn't really matter.

That being said, the bread that parent linked (Lefse) is really good. These are similar, really really good bread.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[dangitman]

I shall be a bit pedantic that this isn't the first time the Norwegian courts actually use reason and rational assessment before issuing a verdict. A man was taken to court for uploading a pirated version of the Norwegian movie "Falne Engler" and was let go with a warning.

But according to the dominant slashdot dogma, isn't it a crime against humanity that this man was given a warning? After all, information wants to be free, and copyright law is an abomination. So, shouldn't this man have been given a medal for helping free the information?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[u38cg]

Check out the price of beer first though. They didn't get everything *quite* right...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

Exactly, and it's the same in all scandinavian countries (for all alcohol). Majority comes from the insane taxation of alcohol, which is supposed to increase general health.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Logopop]

Today, though, public spending in Norway is a bit out of control, while revenue from oil and gas is likely to dwindle over the next decades. Unless, og course, we do as we have already started - to invest heavily in oil and gas exploration in poorer countries where the resources are not nationalized to the benefit of the people. The system is rapidly getting less sustainable. Add to this the ethical side of basing your welfare on having to supply massive amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere. It's a great place to live right now, but I am not sure about the long term prospects...
Ant then, of course, there is the beer prices!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

"Du lukter like godt som drit". Ja, takk for den! Muligens den er akseptabel blant tenåringer...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[C4st13v4n14]

Hi, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things about Norway here. I've done this before, you can see a rather lengthy post about Norway here. I hope you find it useful in your immigration plans or at least interesting. I wrote uncommon sense when I posted the article because Norway has the habit of banning everything and making life really boring. Some things do make sense, and I really think my home country, the good old USA, could learn a lot from them. If you've been following the Norwegian news at all, you'll find that Norwegian judges and politicians try to do what they think is best for the people. They're not by any means pro-pirate, but they refuse to give into pressure from big business to make decisions that will compromise the freedom of the people. This is one thing I like about my new home.

I moved to Norway a little more than two years ago. I'm a doctor here, working as a GP/family doctor, I'm originally from the United States. I meet hundreds of Norwegians every week, a new one about every 20 minutes for 9-10 hours a day, so I feel if there's one thing I can comment on, it's the people. In submitting the article, I called it uncommon sense. This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs. The fines are so stiff that it scares people into even trying something new or foreign. Take driving, for instance, they are so afraid of going over the speed limit that they drive under it. Norwegian speed limits are notoriously low for the conditions. A straight divided highway in the middle of nowhere will have a speed limit of 80 kph (about 49 mph) and people will drive 70. It drives me insane, especially because I've just switched jobs and have to commute 130 km a day. Turns a 30 min drive into almost an hour. In areas where it's safe and legal to pass, people freak out and call the police because it's something people don't really have the balls to do. I've gotten pulled over a few times for "impolite driving". I know, it sounds ridiculous.

Norway is quite isolated both geographically and socially. This has created a national suspicious and xenophobic attitude towards foreigners and new things. They were also in "unions" with Denmark and Sweden for hundreds of years, which is why they are very nationalistic and haven't joined the European Union. Up until around the 1970s, which is when they found oil, they were little more than farmers without any higher education or purpose. There weren't even roads connecting all the different parts of Norway until the mid 20th century, which is why more than 100 dialects of the Norwegian language survive until today and make learning the Norwegian language difficult. They didn't know a thing about oil so they enlisted an American company to help them find the reserves under the sea and develop the industry. Now they're the richest country in the world. They've avoided the mistakes of other countries and invested the money. Now they're the richest country in the world in terms of money in the bank. They invested a lot of money in socialism, which is why Norwegians don't really worry about anything and have a pretty relaxed attitude towards everything because they're always taken care of.

Health care is also something I can comment on due to my profession, and I believe I've done so here.

Norwegian women are typically not hot. They also suffer from what I call Norway's form of "Westernism". Many of them don't really watch their weight or what they eat. The hot ones know they're hot. Contemporary Norwegian women have also a peculiar trait I'd never seen before moving here, they are much stronger than the Norwegian men and have most of the power in a relationship. This isn't true of the older generation. I lived in Eastern Europe for several years between the US and Norway and those women are the hottest in t

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Dachannien]

Actually, I thought the dominant /. dogma was that artists actually should be fairly compensated for what they do, but also that million-dollar judgments in favor of record companies against Joe Schmoe Filesharer doesn't have anything to do with that.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Us Norwegians really come out in full on slashdot whenever we're mentioned, don't we.

Anyway, we have to realize that much of our "success" has been pure luck, in the form of the above mentioned oil. I for one am not so sure how well our social democracy will fare once the oil runs out. It's a fantastic place to live while it lasts, but when it ends there's no substantial source of income to replace it with.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

If their food is any good,

Tough question.

We seem to have a habit of winning Bocuse d'Or and similar competitions.

Most norwegians haven't got a clue, though. Our grocery stores are frankly crap, most norwegian food is industrially produced by big corporations, and is expensive to top it off.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Mascot]

It should be added, that since then we have barely spent any money on roads (cars are evil, we should all be waiting for trains that never run instead).

Which means we're juddering along on roads with 1960s standards much of the time.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds like you live somewhere out in the sticks and have not been able to fit in. You almost sound a little bitter.

I have lived in Oslo for the past ten years and what you are describing is unfamiliar to me. It's like I should move to Arkansas and write a generalization of the US based on my experiences there.

Specifically;
- The women are often very hot and generally take good care of themselves. But they can be quite stuck up and demanding.
- It is not true that they were just uneducated farmers before the oil. They had one of the worlds largest fleets long before that.
- It is true that the prices are high, but not compared to their income. Their PPP is one of the highest in the world.
- Most people dont want the EU because the country is so wealthy there is very little the EU can offer. I dont think Xenophoby comes into it
- "They invested a lot of money in socialism" .. What does that even mean? Are you talking about the welfare state?
- "This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs." - I cant think what you mean with this. Norwat is pretty liberal compared to the country you come from. (Except for alcohol and speed limits)

Mod parent down

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Sheen]

I do not know where in norway you live, but what you describe...doesnt sound like the same country i live in, here in western norway ( bergen ) people push the speedlimit, average speed on a 80 kph highway is about 85, police wont bother you until you're over 90-95. The same city in question, has historicly been a major trading city, even before americas was discovered ( Hanseatic League 1200 AD->), and is still one of the most visited ports in the world, in trade and in tourism. There has also been allot of cultural trade ever since the vikings headed over to England to have some fun. The food. You can basicly get the exact same food here, that you can get in every other european country, and the food is -cheaper- in norway, then in any other country in europe, if you compare it with the wages we get here. ( you make about 23us$ an hour working at Mcdonalds.) So offcourse food has to be expencive, people who work at slaughterhouses and shops needs to get payed too. If you dont like that you can make 60 000 us$ a year working at McDonalds, while you as a MD make about 100 000us$ a year , too bad, move back to US where there are more social differences, and therefore, crime. Cant even understand why you would live here, if it bothers you that much.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

The danes/swedes don't have oil, and they are doing fine (at least comparing to other countries, maybe not as good as before)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Esteanil]

Yummiest thing you can have only* in Norway
(* = So probably not in your country, except if you're japanese or from iceland/greenland )

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hasdikarlsam]

As studies show (and yes, I've read the studies; they make sense), it does.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Have Brain Will Rent]

Bacon makes everything good.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

It also makes the drinking culture different. Instead of socially drinking a few drinks/beers, people get mad drunk on weekends "because it costs so much, so we drink all we can when we do". That also leads to all kinds of other kind of problems.

Alcohol results in much worse results when you have to go for the full price at single times instead of spreading it around, like how the drinking culture is in germany and france.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

And their land and economy is also different. Even if its all throw in "Scandinavia", the countries are still quite different, especially on economy.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

You also forgot that Opera comes from Norway.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[juletre]

Smalahove. How could you not mention the smalahove?

Actually I am trying this for the first time in a couple of weeks. I really really want to eat the eye for the bragging rights, but somehow I don't think I am going to do it. It might depend on this little fellow

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[bogjobber]

That's not really as constant as you make it seem. In many countries that have cheap booze and very tolerant attitudes toward alcohol people get drunk like crazy (Spain, UK being examples) while others do not. I'm sure if alcohol prices dropped in Scandinavian countries there would be more drinking, but cultural factors are probably more important.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Its the perfect country, the problem is that its infested by smug norwegians.. /love from sweden

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hitmark]

Tho lately it seems reason is heading out the door, thanks to at least one political party importing their style from USA...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[juletre]

We are beginning to catch up. The words "terrorist" and "pedophile" are used as often as possible to get what you want politically.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Khenke]

I'm from Sweden and have on and off for 20 years been thinking of moving to Norway
A move for me would be easy, as we are close neighbors and a lot like each others. I understand them speaking and they me (almost like US and UK english).

Why have I been thinking about a move?
Several reasons.
Easier to get a job than i Sweden (I been in IT for my whole life) is one reason.
They actually go in the right direction in the development of their country. Sweden implements more and more stupid laws, so soon we have zero freedom here.
The people a very nice and pleasant, like the northern Sweden.
It's really expensive in Norway, but the salary are higher. It's a chock for us in Sweden to have foreigners come here and buy cheep, as we tend to go to Denmark or Germany for our shopping (not only alcohol).

For me Norway is what Sweden SHOULD be. We are going down in the top list of most educated, best welfare, healthcare and so on while they go the other way. They have always been our "small" brother and they have been looking up to us, but that have changed and we are now looking up to them.
Our politicians are almost as corrupt as in the US, when they in Norway somehow has been able to resist getting sick with power.

If only illegal file sharing was my only concern, there a cheep 100% secure solutions for $10/month that fixes that for me. But I'm soon living in something worse than a police state, a corporation state where Hollywood companies have more rights that I do.
I like my Fon hotspot, but soon I risk going to jail for what others do on it. Soon the state will know where I am 100% of the time (tracking my credit card, mobile phone, SMS, email and so on), and soon there after all the Hollywood companies will have the same information. One of our courts has already broken our constitution with no reprimand what so ever (forcing ISP to dissconnect the Pirate Bay site is not legal in Sweden due to Mere Conduit).

We in the western world are going for a second Dark Ages very fast, but most people are blind to what are happening or just don't care. I guess that in 20 years china will have to take on our political refugees...
One of the few country's resisting is Norway, that is the reason I'm very much thinking about moving there now. And that almost every Norwegian girl I have met has been lovely and sweet don't make it worse.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[juletre]

Good wine is cheap, bad wine expensive.

Because vinmonopolet ("the wine monopoly", the only place to get wine) is stately driven its prices are regulated by law. Everything gets a tax depending on the alcohol content and then a flat fee is added on top of that. The trick is that noting of this is connected to what polet (or "the pole" as it is know) actually paid for the wine.
When they have a really good wine they cannot point to demand and raise the prices as a private store owner would do. This makes cheap high-end wine. I have heard tales of Frenchmen coming up here to buy expensive wine and sell with a profit back home, but have not been able to confirm this.

Sadly, I cannot afford the high-end stuff. I am stuck with the pricey low-end.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Lutefisk is awesome.

Saying that Lutefisk isn't good is just like berating the Scots for their whisky. It is an acqured taste.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Khenke]

I can tell a little story of a Norwegian girl I once meet.

I had just started studying Computer Engineering in Linköping in Sweden when I meet a very lovely girl from Trondheim in Norway visiting a party over the weekend.
To say the least I was a happy geek for 36 hours and doing non-geek stuff (illegally in public and legally in every other place we could find). ;)

I/we fell in love but after she left I decided to focus on my studies instead of a girlfriend (I got her address and phone number) in another country. Some time later I got a mail (you know the old kind based on a dead tree) addressed to the university with my first name and a picture on it (she had a camera) with me, drunk as a skunk. It must have been a fun travel around the university people before they found out it was for me. :)

If I have one regret in my life it was to ignore my feelings and focus on my studies instead, who know, I might have been Norwegian now if not...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[C4st13v4n14]

It's interesting to me that every single person I've ever met in Norway who lives in Oslo regards the rest of Norway as "the sticks". I have lived in three different parts of Norway, Oslo being one of them. I'm from a large city and Oslo was more like a village than city. I didn't even know how to describe it before a Norwegian called it that. Oslo is okay, there are things happening there and interesting people, there are good restaurants, shops, bars, clubs, cinemas. People outside of Oslo tell me "Oslo is not Norway" whilst people from Oslo tell me "Norway is Oslo". It's all your point of view. I'm reporting on my experiences alone. I have quite a few friends here, but they're all foreigners. I am not intellectually stimulated by Norwegians at the least. The conversations doctors have at lunch revolve around one or two topics. At this time of year, it's cross country skiing. I work with four other doctors in a practice and all we can talk about at lunch is that or swineflu. It was the same when I was working at a major hospital.

The women, in perfect honesty, beat out most American women almost every single time. But I've travelled extensively and I have lived in many places, not just here and in Eastern Europe. The women here pale in comparison to most other European women. Take another country I've lived in, a small one called Iceland. The people there are spectacular. I love them to death. The women? Absolutely fabulous. They refer to Norwegian women as "burger butts". They are a very open and warm people who speak English very well. I felt very accepted there. The bad? Well, they're broke for one. Also, it's impossible to get a job there.

One pet peeve of mine here in Norway is that about 90% of Norwegians don't even try to pronounce my typical English name correctly. When I introduce myself, many of them look down and say "ja vel" (translation: um, okay). It often seems like a put down a lot of the time because many people I have daily dealings with repeatedly mispronounce it. Please. It's a very easy name to pronounce. I've been told that the reason for this is that Norwegians don't like to make mistakes, so they won't try to pronounce my name right for fear of that. When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name. About 30% are embarrassed and try to say it. 10% are just happy I'm there and enthusiastic about getting seen. 10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you. That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other. I feel like I have good contact with and form a bond with a very small percentage of my patients. There's a good book that describes the people here exactly. I read it in German, the title was Pferden stehlen (Stealing Horses). It might be that in English. Anyway, at one point in the story it's summer and a guy moves into a house out in the country. He looks out his window and sees his neighbour's house and says to himself "hmmm, I think I'll drop by and say hello after Christmas." Haha. To me, that's unbelievable. It takes people here a very long time to warm up to you and people are very happy to stay in the same job in the same place for 30 years. It's almost admired. Someone like me who likes to see the world, experience different cultures, and meet different people are seen with suspicion. I think that having an understand or at least experience with many different cultures is an asset. People here don't see it like that. Since people here travel very little aside from countries like Turkey, Greece, and Spain, they really have nothing to talk about with me.

The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or loo

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Dreadrik]

As a swede, I must say they're not :-), but their non EU membership probably makes these rulings easier.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

We are more "men of the sea" than farmers (our ancestors had to do a little of everything). Prices are high, but so are the salaries. Unlike in the U.S and eastern/southern europe, the overwhelming majority enjoy a high standard of life, and the state will provide for those who can't take care of themselves. I am on disability and make about $32k a year.

It's true that we are xenophobic, though. I think it's because we've been isolated up here for so long. Before the oil, there was no reason to come here other than the fjords and the fish. Norway is still a very homogenic society, but that is obviously changing now (slashdotted!)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[blind biker]

Take driving, for instance, they are so afraid of going over the speed limit that they drive under it.

It's a speed limit, isn't it? Isn't it common sense to drive below a limit? I've lived for many years in a country where drivers are too often killers. The courts are lenient towards drivers that cause accidents. Drivers drive too fast too often, but nothing changes.

Norway sounds like heaven, from your description. The fact that you think breaking the law by driving over the limit is "common sense", speaks volumes about yourself.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

This is mostly a test to see if this gets deleted. It seems my previous informative post very conveniently disappeared. That could not happen in Norway, and is a perfect example of the difference between Norway and other countries. Absolute fair play and equality are the highest virtues here. We are typically innocent and idealistic, and not so twisted and corrupted by modern urban life. This of course gets us in trouble with more streetsmart foreigners, who tend to look down on us.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[IrquiM]

Yes, we have bacon in Norway!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[IrquiM]

Compare it to the wages. A McDonald's worker gets at least as much beer as in US for his paycheck.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[IrquiM]

Well - it's better than the one importing their style from good, old USSR, which actually has got something to say

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[IrquiM]

I'm sorry, but you're not describing the Norway I live in. I work with a lot of foreign people from all over the world, and their opinion is quite the opposite of what you're saying.

The only part you got correct is the fear of EU, which is mostly just people that doesn't know what they're arguing against.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hitmark]

i would wait some years, as right now the EØS agreement with EU makes norwegian politicians introduce more and more laws based on EU decisions, even tho said agreement has a veto clause.

the reason for said clause not being used more is that said politicians are afraid that doing so will make EU declare the agreement void, and close the EU market for norwegian exports.

to that i would glady say "fuck 'em, lets look for other markets!", like say how a furniture brand is selling their products to chinese customers. Usually its the other way, where norwegian store shelfs are stuffed with "made in china" products.

not that i think EU would close the market access. Norwegian petroleum exports are to important, at least as long as russia tries to use theirs as political leverage...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hitmark]

if your referring to the workers party (arbeiderpartiet) its far from worker focused these days, what with a doctor and a economist being the last couple of party leaders.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Eivind Eklund]

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

Whether the food is good depends on where you are. There's a quite good selection in the cities in the southern part of the country (most of the ones you'll hear about), both in terms of quality and availability in shops and restaurants (ethnic or french inspired, for the most part). There's more remote parts that have a horrid selection.

Norway does not really have that much of a classic food culture; we used to be poor. The present day food culture is to a large degree imported; lots of Italian and a bit of indian/mexican/etc. Going back a while, it was more germanic, so you'll find germanic inspired dishes as the more "old school" dishes. E.g, first fry and then cook meat, and serve with root vegetables and gravy.

Eivind.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

"The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or look down on me is that no matter what I do, they will always think that they're better than me and I will never be accepted."

"10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you. That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other."

Welcome to interacting with people who have some wealth. As someone stateside who's also a medical professional, I started out in the sticks and moved to an very upscale community (Bernie Madoff wealth) about 4 years ago. My dealings are nearly identical to those you're describing.

I'm reminded everyday, wealth is the only judge of success in the US that people recognise any more. The wealthy see themselves as winners of the highest kind. Anyone else is beneath them, especially if they have to work for a living. To be fair, a majority of the ones I see did nothing but outlive wealthy parents, or in the case of most of the women, spread their legs for men who inherited wealth.
There are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority I deal with on a daily basis fit this model.

When two or more of these people are in the same place, they do one of two things... They'll either schmooze with each other until they go their separate ways and then talk shit about the other to me, or ignore each others existence completely.

I think watching how the other half lives for the past few years has made me cynical and jaded about the future of this country. It astounds me how inhumane humanity has become at what it considers its "top". It also angers me that I have no power to change it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

I lived in Oslo working as an IT specialist for the past 3 years and, for one, agree with absolutely everything you wrote about the people, culture, food and attitude. Only blind norwegians (or foreigners who had nothing in life before getting there) can't spot the huge controlled bubble they live in. And for the record, I've finally just left the country, because I couldn't stand the people, weather, food and controlled environment anymore. For the record, I truly love Norway, seriously. But I also happen to truly hate it (the people and food, especially). Three years and I don't have a single norwegian friend, it's unbelievable. You're also right about women. They not only have horrific bodies in the vast majority of cases, they also tend to "wear the trousers". Not to mention their lack of culture/topics to speak about besides fashion. Eastern and southern european women are so much more beautiful and interesting. Regarding the wages, norwegians should understand once and for all that the net salaries are not that high whatsoever when you take off the taxable part. As a senior engineer, I was getting a perfectly ordinary salary, and yes, it pissed me off that the guy working at MacDonalds wasn't earning that much less than me. Not to mention that norwegians always earn more than me, sometimes with less education and professional experience. Or the drug addicts that get all they need from the government while I have to work really hard and pay my obscene taxes. Apartments, supermarkets and social life suck up all your money in Norway. I don't know a single young norwegian who spares money at the end of the month. And if there is some left, it all goes to beer and frozen pizza. The health system is not the holy grail they like to shout about. I always had to pay everytime I went to the GP or the hospital. Not that much of an amount of money, but hell, I even had to pay NOK 650 for a pair of cruches I used for a few days, so why do I pay such high taxes? Anyway, I'm out of that weird society now, and despite having a very strong emotional relation with the country, I also like to make things clear and tell my experience, which is exactly the same of all my foreign friends, so please don't come to /. and say that the above user is making things up, just because you're norwegian or married to one, or were really lucky in the country. I don't know a single friend in Oslo who's happy about it, and they come from more than 20 countries. But whatever, skål! Go to Norway and experience it for yourself. Make sure you spend at least 2 years there to get to know how the system works and controls the people.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[S1ngularity]

Depends on the /.-er for the most part. But the more radical anti-copyright stances are still very reasonable sounding. Something along the lines of, creating art doesn't imbue you with a supreme power of censorship. Also, the point of copyright isn't to make an artist's money (that's the mechanism, not the purpose) but to make sure that there is a wide variety of art for the public to enjoy. Once law starts handing out monopoly rights basic economics says that supply will be restricted to enhance profits. For copyright to even make sense on its own grounds, it is necessary to prove that the monopoly power fueled restriction in product does not exceed the art spurring promise of a specific business model for art monetization. With the recent crackdown on re-mixing culture and the like, it seems quite possible that more art is actually prevented from reaching people than is encouraged into existence.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hitmark]

another thing to consider is that the seasons do not allow for much fresh food year round, unless one imports, so a lot of the traditional foods are stuff that's salted/pickled, dried, or that basically keeps over the winter.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Omestes]

They have decent pastry, at least.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Omestes]

When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name. About 30% are embarrassed and try to say it. 10% are just happy I'm there and enthusiastic about getting seen. 10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you.

You realize your describing much of the world. Here in the US (or at least my neck of it), these numbers would be even worse. How many Americans care to pronounce the "strange" names of foreigners correctly? How many people in the US actually care about anyone outside of immediate friends and family? People are people.

How many people in America, when finding out that their GP is Indian (or such), roll their eye, and aren't happy?

Hell, I live in Arizona, a state with a large Mexican population, and pretty deep Mexican cultural roots, and how many people care to pronounce such every-day words like "saguaro" or "coyote" correctly?

Also, I'm sorry the women aren't lithe and submissive enough for your tastes. This hardly says anything about the country that matters, except you don't like the women. You do realize that this makes you sound a bit... vapid and shallow... right? It really doesn't help people take anything your saying seriously. Some people don't like their women submissive, and some people find harping at a whole nation because some of their women have "big butts" rather silly.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweden has expensive alcohol, Norway has very expensive alcohol, Denmark doesn't so all the swedes and norwegians go to Denmark and drink

Norway seems to have a religious beef with anything fun or unhealthy, but they also have lots of oil so the pattern in normal ;)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[maggern]

Try reading the excellent book "riding the waves of culture". Then make a new effort of trying to understand Norwegians.

The comment about your patients not pronouncing your name correct seems faulty. You say the name is easy to say correctly, but surely you must understand that if the patentis are not getting it right, then they find it hard to pronounce.

Perhaps you expected to come to Norway and be admired and have a high status because you're a doctor? It's not like that, we're all equal here. Right? ;)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Khenke]

Lucky us non english speaking people you american's would never insult us if we spell of pronounce anything wrong. And we really look up to how you treat Mexican/Indian/Chinese/Black/European/Arab/Poor/African people.
And we are really thankful for everything you push on us since we don't understand better.

I wish we was so open and understanding as you are. I'm really trying as you can see, but forgive me if I'm not good enough.
 

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[t_ban]

if you can cook or have an Eastern European partner

Myself, I very much prefer having my partners to cooking them, but I guess tastes will vary...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I think it has a lot to do with your attitude when it comes to getting "integrated" into the Norwegian community.

That people look at you as different is because you -are- different. Deal with it.

When it comes to your pet peeve of not getting your name pronounecd right.. Try saying "Kjetil", if you get it right, even on the 25th try I'll give you a bottle of scotch...
My bloody name was dubbed "Dobby, the house geek" by most of the americans and canadians that installed stuff where I worked a few years ago... I found it amusing, but still... They could not at all say my name. And it is a very simple name to pronounce (if you're Norwegian that is :-p)

So.. If your largest pet peeve is that your name isnt pronounced right perhaps you dont have all that many peeves to worry about.

I have several foreign coworkers working alongside me in the current project I'm assigned to. One Canadian (project lead), one indian (project engineer), one american (specialist, developer) and a Finnish person (project lead on a related project).....
All are treated the same.

As you say your croatian friends are not treated as well as they should. Well, unfortunately there is a reason people are so reluctant to embrace eastern european people. There has been a shit-ton of crime 'imported' from the areas. We had tons of people coming here to work illegally, doing horribly bad quality work I might add, every year. That impression doesnt just disappear. The countries of eastern europe has gotten that 'stamp' so to speak and will have to live with that for a while. It fades over time but damnit it is only natural for some people to be distrusting.

Look at the issues of mexican and cuban immigration in the southern US... Dont come here and tell -us- about how shitty -we- treat the immigrated workers. Fix your own shit first :-p

So.. it depends on where you work, how you behave and for crying out loud, dont be so annoyed at small things. Deal with the greater issues and fuck the same things.

Meh, I'm grumpy today.
Very grumpy.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

On the subject of roads it can be added that a lot of different regions initiate road building projects that are abandoned by the next local administration before they are finished. Resulting in a not insignificant amount of roads leading to absolutely nowhere; or to a mountain wall where a tunnel was planned but never started, or finished.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

Could be mentioned that Norwegian Labour Party was founded in 1887 (before there was a USSR) and that it split in 1921 as the majority of the party did not want to join the Communist International.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

Anyway, we have to realize that much of our "success" has been pure luck, in the form of the above mentioned oil. I for one am not so sure how well our social democracy will fare once the oil runs out. It's a fantastic place to live while it lasts, but when it ends there's no substantial source of income to replace it with.

The presence of oil and gas and the benefit to the Norwegian economy could be said to be luck; how that profit was managed was not however. Though I do agree that the oil have made our nation somewhat more complacent than we should.

However at this point oil export is about half the total exports of the country which is fairly substantial; but we are by no means without other "sources of income". Though I shall agree that some of our other industries have been neglected as our focus was on oil and gas. There are room for expansion and I do not fear our nations economical future as we have access to other resources and a large potential for growth in several sectors. And our most important asset is a very high average educational level (though it should be driven ever higher).

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

I think maybe many Norwegians feel a need to be genuine, and don't feel comfortable with to much small talk. Scenario: I don't know you that well, why should I pretend that I'm your best friend? It seems a bit hypocrite. If I play the role of being your best friend. What should one do if you ask for a favour? And I don't want the bother. Then I will seem a hypocrite, and possibly hurt your feelings, being super friendly, but then not following it up.

And I don't think that one should be to sensitive, and take things to personal. I think people are a bit shy, and vary of social commitments.
Tip for Americans: Every Norwegian I know disdain any form of superficiality. ( I say Americans with reference to some of American TV which can contain quite superficial hosts. (e.g US ver. of Scrapie Challange on Discovery) ,and some of your politician. (Not Ron Paul, he rocks) )

I worked at a gas station, with most people it's Hello. Hello *beep beep* Thank you. Thank you Good bye. Good bye. But some like to chat. (10-20%)

If you live in Norway as a foreigner, try joining some social activities. Sports, churches, voluntary work e.g red cross or that type of activities or parties (vorspiel (pre-) / nachspiel (post-party) ). Then I think you would get to know more Norwegians. It seems to me that the only contact you have with Norwegians is through your job, and that isn't a optimal arena to get to know people.
My friends and family like to invite each other home for dinner. And do activities in our homes. We don't hang out in pubs or cafés that much.

So the rule of the game is: Get to know people in unformal social activities, after a while when you get to know people, you can invite them home for dinner.

Just picture Norwegians as large Hobbits. :)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Spot on....

westerner living in Oslo. A very apt description.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[commodore64_love]

>>>artists actually should be fairly compensated for what they do, but also that million-dollar judgments in favor of record companies against Joe Schmoe Filesharer doesn't have anything to do with that.
>>>

Yes. Just as I get paid an hourly wage for my creative endeavors (schematics), so too should artists. That does NOT mean they are entitled to write a single book or song in their 20s, and then sit on their ass for the rest of their lives. None of the rest of us get to be lazy shits. Many of us work well into our 70s or 80s

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[commodore64_love]

I want to carry a gun as self-defense against pedophiles and terrorists. It's for the children.

"No" - democrat

See? That argument doesn't always work.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[dangitman]

Actually, I thought the dominant /. dogma was that artists actually should be fairly compensated for what they do, but also that million-dollar judgments in favor of record companies against Joe Schmoe Filesharer doesn't have anything to do with that.

As you can see from one of your replies, no. Commodore_64_love appears to believe that royalties are immoral and artists should just be paid an hourly wage.

And there are even more extreme positions than that - such as that as soon as a copyrighted work is sold once, then anybody else can make money from it, the copyright holder losing any exclusive right to it.

One also occasionally sees even more extreme arguments, to the effect that being an "artist" is not a real job, and they don't deserve money at all, or that all artists should do it for the "love" of the work, and not expect compensation.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[TyFoN]

How many Americans care to pronounce the "strange" names of foreigners correctly?

Its funny that when i am in the US, i am usually greeted with "Hello minster... minster... welcome!".
My name is a typical Norwegian one.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[JesseMcDonald]

Exactly. Also notice that "fairly compensated" doesn't have to have anything to do with copyright; it can instead consist of fair one-time compensation for the service of creating the work (e.g. work-for-hire, individual or mass patronage, etc.) with no exclusivity to follow. The assumption that "fair compensation" equals "copyright" is part of the problem.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Lavene]

When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name.

This might be the reason: We hate foreign doctors. So when you introduce yourself they're going "Oh fuck... another one of those!" And the reason we hate foreign doctors is that they don't understand when they really need to.

It is not racism, it has nothing to do with skin color or anything. If you had been a carpenter or a tram driver no one would care. But as a doctor we need to talk to you. Not only that; you need to understand us if we one day is really sick, in horrible pain and speak with a dialect that's almost incomprehensible even for the locals. So when we shake hands with a foreign doctor, either his name is Singh or Jhonny, we go "Fuck!" in our mind hoping there will be a Norwegian doctor available to save us at the hospital after you have failed to understand what we try to say.

It doesn't matter how well you think you know Norwegians, or even how well you speak Norwegian. Because we have all met with the foreign doctor from hell. The doctor that pretend to understand everything, maybe he even think he does. But when you are at the pharmacy to pick up the prescription you get painkillers instead of birthcontrol pills. And you are that doctor... until you prove otherwise.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

So what you are saying is that Norway manages to be an awesome country because it can basically suck money straight out of the ground.

What happens when the supply of money runs out?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

The party you are probably referring to is closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, though. They want nationalized health care, in that even though they open up for private health care, the government still pays the bill. In US terms, that party is a left-leaning party.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

average speed on a 80 kph highway is about 85, police wont bother you until you're over 90-95

That's not true from what I hear. If you drive too fast, you drive too fast.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Tubal-Cain]

That does NOT mean they are entitled to write a single book or song in their 20s, and then sit on their ass for the rest of their lives.

Entitled? No. But if their work is good enough that they earn enough money to do so in only a few years of copyright protection (J. K. Rowling), so be it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Tubal-Cain]

Who cares about beer? I want to know the prices of caffeinated beverages.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

Norwegian speed limits are notoriously low for the conditions. A straight divided highway in the middle of nowhere will have a speed limit of 80 kph (about 49 mph) and people will drive 70.

Huh? That's not my experience. Some roads have a 110 (or 120?) kph speed limit, and the traffic generally flows well above the limit.

Up until around the 1970s, which is when they found oil, they were little more than farmers without any higher education or purpose.

Actually, Norway was more of a fishing/shipping nation than a farming nation, and has had some of the world's best and most advanced fleets.

Typical Norwegian food is poisonous

Huh?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Djupblue]

Exactly, the rest of Scandinavia has no oil and the standard of living is very comparable to Norway. Of course the oil helps but all about politics. Norway prioritizes the common good before private profit. That is why you are likely to have courts that doesn't look upon copyright infringement as to be so serious as to need special treatment. That's why they have free health care, nice prisons (criminals are also people) and strict laws on alcohol. /Swede

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

I am not intellectually stimulated by Norwegians at the least. The conversations doctors have at lunch revolve around one or two topics.

Maybe you are just hanging around with the wrong crowd. It seems odd to describe 4-5 million Norwegian based on a bunch of rich dudes around a table.

Take another country I've lived in, a small one called Iceland. The people there are spectacular. I love them to death. The women? Absolutely fabulous. They refer to Norwegian women as "burger butts".

Burger butts? Sounds like you are making stuff up as you go along.

They are a very open and warm people who speak English very well.

That's odd, because Norwegians are well known for their English skills. I don't have the same experience with people from Iceland.

One pet peeve of mine here in Norway is that about 90% of Norwegians don't even try to pronounce my typical English name correctly. ... I've been told that the reason for this is that Norwegians don't like to make mistakes, so they won't try to pronounce my name right for fear of that. When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name.

Ok, so because they are afraid to make a mistake when pronouncing your name, they are xenophobic?

10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you.

As an American, you should know that Americans are among the most superficial people on the planet. Americans don't ask because they really care. Seriously. You of all people should know that. Norwegians seem to be less happy about superficial small-talk.

That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other.

Or maybe they just aren't as superficial as Americans generally are?

The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or look down on me is that no matter what I do, they will always think that they're better than me and I will never be accepted.

How do you know that they look down on you? And how are these people who look down on you anyway?

they don't get much exposure to the outside world

Apart from their media being completely dominated by foreign productions, you mean? Especially American movies and music.

All of the foreigners I've met here have the same things to say about it, especially my American countrymen.

Funny, I have the opposite experience. One has to wonder why you feel the need to invent these things.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[skeffstone]

I'm not going to comment much on this, I think everyone can see that this is bombastic and narrow. I'm norwegian myself and I don't recognize myself or my friends in this. But alas, this is not forum for discussing nations and the people there. But seriously man, you should get out more, locally but also globally.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[maggern]

Don't forget the fårikål! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A5rik%C3%A5l

In the 1970s, fårikål was elected national dish of Norway by a popular radio programme.

I eat fårikål every year and it is both very easy to make and extremely good to eat. Recommended!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[maggern]

Then we use the return from the Oljefondet (National Oil fund), currently at 2500 billions NOK (439 billion dollar) to keep going :P

Kidding, we actually use that money to pay of all the pensions of our aging population. I wonder how other countries, that are not filthy rich, will be able to pay off the babyboomers after WWII without severe social consequences...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, it's hard to know where to begin.. Your comments about the Norwegian tax system are preposterous, and you either have a very poor understanding of it, or you are being being intentionally misleading in order to bring across a point. "Everyone" does most certainly not pay 36%, in fact the average rate seems to be 27-28%, which is on par with most western european countries. People earning half the average wage or less are taxed perhaps 15-20%, depending on their deductions. Also "most" people don't pay 50%, although about a quarter of the taxed population pay a "toppskatt", which could lead to a calculated tax above 40%. Additionally, the 50% overtime tax you mention when discussing vacation time is obviously not actual tax, but an additional payment intended to exceed your marginal tax as your earnings for the year presumably will be higher than originally estimated. Any amount exceeding your actual calculated tax will be refunded, with interest, the following year. The intention, which I'm frankly not sure if you understand or not, is to protect you from getting a penalty tax due to having a too low amount deducted by your employer. I emphasize; the number on your government issued "skattekort" is NOT the amount of tax you will end up paying. Your dismissal of Norwegian health care as "not free" is also misleading. While it is true that there is a co-pay on each visit, it should also be mentioned that there is a roof applied to these payments, after which an exemption is given so that noone has to pay more than 0.5-1% of the national average income. This generates income while protecting against snowballing costs of repeated treatments. I'm also fairly certain the government will pay your bill if you really don't have any money. Now, for some of your more recent opinions.. It appears that your preference in women favour those of the naturally very slim or surgically enhanced persuasion. I won't comment on that save to say that not everyone agrees. I do find your constant inclusion of women and their beauty as a characteristic of a place fairly juvenile and off-putting. It doesn't exactly leave a favorable impression on your other arguments. Going on, you make a lot of blanket statements and quote some quite obviously made up statistics about Norwegian behavior. A lot of them, it seems, would be true if spoken about nearly any country. It's interesting, for instance, that you don't mention xenophobia in your tales of eastern Europe. And.. pronouncing your name correctly..? Really..!? Maybe being a native English speaker instills these kinds of completely unrealistic expectations, I don't know. Other statements are fairly well statistically proven, such as your claims that Norwegians are non-confrontational and not prone to emotional outbursts. More on this later. As to your claims that Norway treats it's residents of foreign origin poorly, I'm inclined to agree. I have to say I'm not that worried about you and your golf buddies, though. We have more pressing problems in dealing with our growing slave-caste of African descent washing every floor and dusting every desk at 6am every morning, and getting scammed on the pay while they're at it. But, to make my main point, most of your experiences seem heavily colored by the fact that the majority of your interactions aren't an anywhere near statistically random sample. As a GP, I think it is fair to assume that your patrons tend to be older rather than younger, and most likely slightly nervous rather than chatty and relaxed. While you assume the raw numbers make you somehow uniquely qualified to spout the absolute truths about "The Norwegian", I postulate that you are vastly more likely to get to see people's worst sides rather than their best. Hell, maybe apprehensiveness towards their GP is a uniquely Norwegian quality, and that is causing your impressions ;) Anyway, I don't think your views are as fair and balanced as you think they are. Also.. $50 for a kilo of beef? You sure have some extravagant shopping habits Jon

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

What is a "not insignificant amount"? You got any data to back that up?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[mjkjedi]

Don't forget Norwegian black metal!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[MacWiz]

I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic. If so, the judgments in favor of the record companies don't go to the artists. The artists are paid according to the terms of their contract. The lawsuits don't alter those contracts.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hitmark]

the default speed for open roads with few intersections are 80kph, 90 used on "highway" classed roads.

there are however one or more stretches of recent completion where they have allowed 100 as a test bed for future projects.

do note however that research have shown that while higher speed means the individual vehicle gets to its destination faster, lower speed allows more vehicles to pass a stretch of road in the same amount of time, as they can drive closer together.

so speed limits will be a balance between safety, infrastructure utilization and the individuals wish to get from a to b quickly.

and i would say its better to get there a bit later, then risk not getting there at all...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, and it's the same in all scandinavian countries (for all alcohol). Majority comes from the insane taxation of alcohol, which is supposed to increase general health.

The amounts of side effects brought on society by allowing alcohol to be easily available and cheap is ridiculous. Domestic violence, public violence, DUI, dependency issues, STDs etc. That humongous amount of crap that is kept at a minimum by regulating when and where you can buy alcohol at what price. I happily pay extra for a beer knowing it helps keeping the side effects at a low.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[DNS-and-BIND]

Well! Finally someone has solved the "where will the neverending flow of new money come from" aspect of socialism that has bedeviled so many attempts to implement it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[cheesecake23]

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

My ex-girlfriend is Norwegian. Once when I visited her in Norway I was treated to a traditional family dinner, consisting of pig's head on a plate - one head per person. Does that answer your question?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it is infested by smug Norwegians, something which is often extremely annoying --most Norwegians would happily agree to this description!

Fortunately a lot of us go over the border for weekend-shopping in Sweden to even out the burden. Some even do it during weekdays. And you have some amusement parks and stuff too, more Norwegians should take their vacation in Sweden.

Love from Norway <3

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, if they go through the trouble of saying "See four stuh thirteen vee four en fourteen", of course they're gonna be put off when you say "It's pronounced 'Castlevania'".

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny after you nailed your description of Norwegian society to see the answers from the Norwegian crowd here. As a Norwegian living in Oslo that has lived a few places abroad I can only say Oslo is a sad city to be in. It is a celebration of mediocrity on every level of life.

When foreigners tell native Norwegians it's a really nice place, you can be relatively sure they're just placating the Norwegian.

Word of advice for new foreigners in Oslo, if people ask you what you think of Norway, do not for the life of you say what you really think. Any negativity, even if only in contrast to the good things you may say will make you branded as a complainer. Also, don't ever believe the psychotic smiles of many of the women here - it's a facade that covers some pretty serious mental desires to control everyone around them.

Another thing about the women, they don't know how to dress or how to walk in heels. The typical sight is some tunika/tights/tall boots combination, alternatively the all out skanky whore look. To top that off, when they walk in heels on a flat, horizontal street, they still look like they are climbing steep stairs. From the side, they take on the shape of the letter "Z".

Looking forward to the next opportunity to get out of the sanatorium that is Oslo. :)

Sincerely,
Nordmann som er lei av teaterframføringa "Norge i dag".

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[haruchai]

I knew that - Opera was my go-to browser from 1998 up until Firefox 1.5. I even paid for a license back when they still charged for it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[haruchai]

I'm filing that under Too Much Information, but thanks.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

It's common knowledge for anyone living in the country.

I have one such "we thought we'd do something here but the funding went away" stubs of road less than a minute's drive from where I live.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[jesset77]

And there are even more extreme positions than that - such as that as soon as a copyrighted work is sold once, then anybody else can make money from it, the copyright holder losing any exclusive right to it.

No, this point is about as extreme as you can get without first violating privacy rights. Artist can make money on first sale. How else would the work make it into the public to begin with? You cannot P2P what's physically not available to you.

Once it is in the public however, then whomsoever chooses may share the data with the rest of the world at virtually zero cost and it takes the enforcement of global treaties and suspension of civil liberties to stop them.

In any event, this is the hill I defend. Artists should make money *creating* things, not selling copies of them or saying who anywhere in the world can or cannot make money re-selling or re-mixing the work they have already released into the public. The entire corpus of human knowledge is presently copyrighted, and no new creative work can be constructed save from elements that already exist; virtually all of which are already copyrighted or trademarked. It's simply time for this to stop.

Besides, how do artists make money from copy rights anyway? By selling their rights to litigious big media, of course, and becoming debt-bonded "celebrities".

But I'll head back to your original point. Perhaps royalties aren't immoral, and hourly wages really are an insult. I'll bet McDonalds workers would love that, instead of buying the burger you pay royalties to everyone who helped make the burger: grill person, person who assembled the sandwhich, wrapped it, and person who presented it to you on a tray. Let's not forget the farmers who raised the cows and the wheat, the slaughterhouse that turned the cow into ground beef and the mill that processed the wheat and lord knows what else into a bun. Read off the big mac song to see who else you have to pay. And they all earn a percentage cut on everything you do with the underwhelming boost of energy you get after eating the burger.

Suddenly, there is so much more incentive for these lowly employees to make better food; they profit directly from it! I'll bet the would all invest more TLC (and methamphetamines ;D) into your daily meal.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[jesset77]

Yummiest thing you can have only* in Norway

Ah, but Where can you see Lions?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[jesset77]

Its the perfect country, the problem is that its infested by smug norwegians.. /love from sweden

Wait, I thought Norway was the CAPITOL of Sweden? </confused>

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[jesset77]

Fish und Potatoes! And lunch packet, with frozhen bread with Yellow Cheese on it. \o/

OO

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the link to send a donation to the judge?

Re:OO

[chibiace]

404 link not found.
no wonder we won ;)
id like to know how man judges are bribed to "fight" "piracy".

Re:OO

[gzipped_tar]

Finally, we've caught the infidel who has been bribing judges in all free countries in order harm the honest, starving capitalists! It's Anonymous Coward! Someone get him NOW! Think of the music industry!!1!

Re:OO

[drinkypoo]

Think of the music industry!!1!

I have been, but apparently I'm not the Lathe of Heaven, because they're still here.

FINALLY.

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally someone gets it. There *is* NO direct infringement ocurring.

Pirate Bay?

[boudie2]

Yesterday Pirate Bay was shut down never to return.
Today they're back up.
If there's one thing to admire about Pirates, it's
there sticktoitiveness. Yarrr!

Re:Pirate Bay?

[girlintraining]

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it. There was a point to this post, but it has eluded the author. Oh look, a kitty!

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Anonymous Coward]

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it. There was a point to this post, but it has eluded the author. Oh look, a kitty!

antidepressants i assume. its a lot harder to be miserable when you can't remember what happen 5 minutes ago.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Dan541]

The good guys always win, well not always but as a collective we pirates are holding our ground pretty darn well. Especially when you consider that we can't afford to buy any of our laws.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[dangitman]

That depends what happened 5 minutes ago.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Anonymous Coward]

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it.

Are you still seeing your therapist?

Re:Pirate Bay?

[c1t1z3nk41n3]

Which is kind of odd considering how much money we save by not paying for entertainment...

Re:Pirate Bay?

[TheRaven64]

The good guys always win

This is true, although largely because the winners who win retroactively define themselves as the good guys.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[IamTheRealMike]

You don't have to buy laws if you choose not to respect them in the first place.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your lack of sticktoitiveness disturbing

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a pirate. Since when has the fact that you can't afford to buy something prevent you from taking it anyway?

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Dan541]

Ok how do we introduce a law without paying congress?

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Anonymous Coward]

so the 'good guys' are the ones who sell millions of dollars worth of advertising on the back of giving away the work of hundreds of thousands of people for free.
These good guys are backed by an extremist right wing millionaire called carl lundstrom.

I pity anyone who considers these arrogant fascist scum as the good guys.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Dan541]

So the good guys are the ones suing innocent people into bankruptcy, destroying lives, committing criminal activities and stomping human rights.

Good for them

[Myrcutio]

Sounds like great news for everyone. A precedent that helps stand against widespread banning of websites can only be a good thing for net neutrality. Means liability for illegal actions can't be retroactively inherited.

Re:Good for them

[sopssa]

Still this isn't a precedent and doesn't do much outside Norway.

Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[macraig]

Have you forgotten about global warming? Soon enough Norway might be the new Costa Rica: hot weather AND women. The food will probably be hot and spicy, too. But will the women still be fair-skinned and blonde? Hope you like the Latin/Caribbean/Mediterranean look.

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[Anonymous Coward]

The first couple of years, it will be the sunburned_all_the_time look.

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[macraig]

I'm investing in a sunscreen manufacturer right now!

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[commodore64_love]

Global warming will not increase the amount of sunlight received in Norway. The people will still be light-skinned.

Re:Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[macraig]

Sure it will! The mass migration of billions of people to the New Tropic of Cancer will tilt the earth over on its axis a bit so that Norway gets all the rays.

Background info on Telenor

[Sheen]

I would like to add some information about Telenor. Telenor is state owned, 54% of the shares belong to the people/Norwegian state. They have close to 200 million customers worldwide. So this is a big operator in the Telecom world. They have about 43 000 employees. Today, I am proud to be Norwegian.

Re:Background info on Telenor

[hitmark]

well it used to be 100% state owned (televerket) and the only supplier of phone services.

i would say that the state is a silent partner these days, only there to get some returns on the initial investment, rather then getting involved in the day to day running of the company.

Re:Background info on Telenor

[Anonymous Coward]

But the ruling still does only applies to the norwegian part. Here in Denmark, Telenor is still blocking, as of danish ruling.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[SpzToid]

Seriously, this is enlightenment from the Norwegian fjords!

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[amorsen]

Not least about the author...

iiNet?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how this affects the court case against Australian ISP iiNet.

Complementary info - MOD UP TOO

[arielCo]

Please mod this up TOO - it looks that (as usual) there is room in a whole country for more than one way of life, and this one is as worthy of being known as the one that got posted first. Together they're really useful - thanks.

Tracker down?

[tcoady]

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://tracker.thepiratebay.org/announce

Re:Tracker down?

[icebraining]

The tracker hasn't worked for a few months, they switched to openbittorrent.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBitTorrent).

They said they wanted to separate the tracker from the website, so the tracker can't be liable (as it doesn't record the file names). Oh, and officially, no one knows who's the tracker owners :)

Re:Tracker down?

[Zontar The Mindless]

The TPB's own trackers have been down since forever, and are not likely to come back up.

Just de-select the TPB's trackers in your BT client and use one of the others; all torrents listed at TPB include alternative trackers.

Or at least this is what I have heard somewhere... ;)

Well, that's a first...

[Anonymous Coward]

It also makes the drinking culture different. Instead of socially drinking a few drinks/beers, people get mad drunk on weekends "because it costs so much, so we drink all we can when we do".

I've never before heard the claim that high alcohol prices lead to drinking huge amounts at a time instead of spreading it around and frankly I can't find the logic in that statement - why would anyone think like that? To claim the reason for such a long standing social phenom, a cultural trait going back for centuries to be in alcohol prices is absurd, even if there is correlation. Usually I hear the "The countries in which have been serfs + finland drink heavily on weekends" or "The countries which have been under russian influence drink heavily on weekends" in which it is easier to find the causality.

The usual argument is that "Alcohol is such a social taboo that people can't drink during weeks so then on weekends they drink like hell" and this makes sense to me but I'm not sure if even that applies anymore. I'm a student so our alcohol culture is naturally different (Taboos don't really exist there) but even in my last workplace (internet marketing company, so mostly young folk) there were people who would grab a beer or two on a weekday and they weren't really scowled that much. The latest progression actually shows that in many middle european countries (Germany, France, Italy...) they actually keep their drinking culture and IN ADDITION are beginning to drink a lot every once in a while... So I don't really think that making alcohol less of a taboo is going to solve the problem.

Quite opposite, I think that alcohol should be more of a taboo here in Finland: The teenagers drink alcohol. We all know that. They do so pretty publicly. Police usually don't pay much attention to that and if parents find out that underage child has been drinking, they don't really act as if it was that serious - as everyone is doing it.

Prices for alcohol are so high because at least us Finns drink as much as we can afford. As underage kids we drink as much we have money. When we get to become students, I can't count the times I've heard "I'd love to join you for a beer/take one more but can't afford to" and I know that all those alcoholists without jobs drink as much as they can afford. High prices really lower the consumption a lot, which is great. The only group to which this doesn't apply is those with a lot of money (steady jobs, no longer loans, no small kids or a young wife/husband to complain about spending all the money) and in general those people have the least problems with alcohol.

As such, I - as a heavily drinking student and as an occasional taxpayer - do support our high prices for alcohol.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, this is enlightenment from the Norwegian fjords!

It is? I live in Norway (have also lived in UK and been travelling quite a lot around) and was hard pressed to find anything I could recognize or agree with. If he had blanked out which country he was describing I would have given up on guessing before guessing Norway. Which is fascinating.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not least about the author...

^^^ This. Especially the comments about women.

I don't understand ?

[daveime]

What happened to the "safe harbour" provisions for ISPs ?

It's okay to publish Scientology bullshit and bomb plans on the net, but woe betide any ISP who "assists in sharing" an mp3 ?

Re:I don't understand ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Safe Harbor" is part of the US DMCA. This case was a bit outside US jurisdiction.

Re:I don't understand ?

[hitmark]

did you not get the memo that the internet

• is

US jurisdiction? ;)

Re:I don't understand ?

[daveime]

You mean they actually got something *right* for once ?

mølje, øl og linjeakevitt

[SgtChaireBourne]

There's more remote parts that have a horrid selection.

Speaking of horrid, what's that last item on the list below? I don't dare try it. It's all chopped up so as to be unrecognizable. ;)

• biff - steak
• selbiff - seal cutlets
• kvalbiff - 'harpoon' special
• kyllingbiff - chicken breasts
• kalkunbiff - turkeybreasts
• svinbiff - pork cutlets
• sejbiff - saithe cutlets
• sojabiff - tofu (or somesuch) cutlets
• lammbiff - lamb cutlets
• . . .
• finnbiff - ??wtf??

Re:mølje, øl og linjeakevitt

[TyFoN]

Finnbiff is rain deer meat :)

Re:mølje, øl og linjeakevitt

[Lavene]

Speaking of horrid, what's that last item on the list below? I don't dare try it. It's all chopped up so as to be unrecognizable. ;)

• ...
• . . .
• finnbiff - ??wtf??

It's reindeer :)

Re:mølje, øl og linjeakevitt

[Eivind Eklund]

As others have told you, finnbiff is reindeer cut into small pieces. It's just pure, lean meat, often served with a sauce of sour cream, onion, mushrooms spiced with juniper berries and black pepper, usually with lingonberry (AKA cowberry, or in norwegian "tyttebær") jam and boiled potatoes on the side.

Eivind.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[Tubal-Cain]

...enlightenment from the Norwegian fjords

Not least about the author...

Slartibartfast?