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Massive Power Outages In Brazil Caused By Hackers

Hugh Pickens writes "CBS reports on 60 minutes that a massive two-day power outage in Brazil's Espirito Santo State affecting more than three million people in 2007, and another, smaller event in three cities north of Rio de Janeiro in January 2005, were perpetrated by hackers manipulating control systems. Former Chief of US National Intelligence Retired Adm. Mike McConnell says that the 'United States is not prepared for such an attack' and believes it could happen in America. 'If I were an attacker and wanted to do strategic damage to the United States, I would either take the cold of winter or the heat of summer,' says McConnell, 'I would probably sack electric power on the US East Coast, maybe the West Coast and attempt to cause a cascading effect.' Congressman Jim Langevin says that US power companies need to be forced to deal with the issue after they told Congress they would take steps to defend their operations but did not follow up. 'They admit that they misled Congress. The private sector has different priorities than we do in providing security. Their bottom line is about profits,' says Langevin. 'We need to change their motivation so that when see vulnerability like this, we can require them to fix it.' McConnell adds that a similar attack to the one in Brazil is poised to take place on US soil and that it may take some horrific event to get the country focused on shoring up cyber security. 'If the power grid was taken off line in the middle of winter and it caused people to suffer and die, that would galvanize the nation. I hope we don't get there.'"

87 of 462 comments (clear)

  1. Good luck with that by thenextstevejobs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Probably impossible.

    As we all should know by now, impenetrable security doesn't exist. What we should probably have is tighter backup power for essential services and places like hospitals, where local redundancy could help in the face of a remote 'hacker' type attack

    Places where there is a lot of danger for people without electrical power don't need billions spent on the security of their power systems. They need redundancy, generators in their buildings that could be used to keep people alive, batteries, and common sense.

    Oh well, let's spend a bunch of money on fear like we always do.

    --
    Long live the BSD license
    1. Re:Good luck with that by jeffstar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      there's the attitude: There is always somebody out there smarter than you, and there is always going to be a bug or security vulnerability somewhere in the system.

      There was an interesting blog in the economist magazine pondering what else could be done with the 680 billion the US spends annually on defense.

      While the US has spent a trillion in Iraq the chinese have spent a trillion improving their infrastructure.

    2. Re:Good luck with that by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is easy to say that a data center needs its own source of standby power, but there are a lot of industries where a one minute outage causes a six to twelve-hour restart time, and the margins are far too thin to support the additional generation infrastructure.

      I know a few people putting in multi-megawatt fuel cell systems, but these have the same restart-time problem that the utility grid has, which is ultimately the problem.

      The easiest fix at a utility scale is to increase the amount of spinning reserve so that causing a cascading failure requires control of multiple generating facilities. Once you trip a facility offline, re-start times are just way too long, especially given emmissions controls.

      I have trouble believing that the "smart grid" really solves this, although you can do some things with networked protection strategies and more selective load shed.

    3. Re:Good luck with that by PPH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So each facility evaluates its energy reliability needs. Some may come to the conclusion that they need higher reliability than what the local utility provides. But today, that's just based on gut feelings. Because there is no reliability or 'uptime' standard to which utilities must adhere. And as a result, there's no marginal price for additional MTBF or grid uptime. So people who think they need better reliability just go out and buy their own genset.

      In some ways, this is analogous to servers. Everyone can go out and buy their own box and stick it in a co-location facility. Maybe install a redundant one at a remote facility. But as we (most of us) know, shared servers and virtualization are much more economical ways of allocating and managing server resources. But that works because we can put dollar figures on storage, bandwidth, and db queries.

      To date, electrical utilities and their regulating commissions have established simple price structures that map all costs to dollars per killowatt-hour charges. There are no penalties or rebates for power outages based on either duration and/or frequency. And its not likely that utilities and regulators are going to embrace shifting part of the revenue structure from an energy charge to an availability or reliability charge. To do so would alter the consumer's perception of the cost of power and might result in an increase in consumption. For example, where I live (the Pacific Northwest of the USA), the 'fuel' or energy costs are actually quite low. Most of our utilities costs are fixed, for system operation and maintenence. But we are charged (primarily) a fee for energy used. If our bills reflected the true cost distribution, energy conservation would be a thing of the past.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Good luck with that by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      prove it, damn defeatists always claim that a perfect system is impossible. Hire competent workers ...

      And there's your problem right there.
      Even the DoD and the CIA still hire the occassional spy and give them top secret security clearance.
      If bad actors can't crack the hardware or software, they will always find a problem exists between keyboard and chair.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:Good luck with that by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Impenetrable security may not exist, but good security and crappy security do exist. We'd rather have good than crappy, but the power companies would rather spend on executive bonuses than on good security.

      We do need improved security on SCADA (like making it REALLY separate from the internet and business LANs), but that's not billions in cost. As you point out, backup power is good.

      More resiliency in the grid is a big one. If the grid has adequate spare capacity it can tolerate a few sudden losses and can be less tightly coupled in the first place. Given enough added capacity, SCADA can go back to just local control and human operators will again be fast enough to intermediate at the regional level.

    6. Re:Good luck with that by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As we all should know by now, impenetrable security doesn't exist.

      Totally impenetrable physical security doesn't exist, but totally impenetrable electronic security most certainly does. It's quite simple to make something completely immune to hacker attacks over the internet: disconnect it from the internet!

      Why the nation's power grid control absolutely needs to be tied into the internet, I have no idea. Maybe someone in the field can enlighten me. But if this is a big concern, it seems like it'd be pretty to eliminate the security threat by not having any control over the power grid exposed to the internet. If someone needs to exercise some control over the system, they have to get in their car and drive to the power plant.

      Of course, this wouldn't prevent someone from sneaking in somehow, but that's a far more remote danger than some hacker on the internet (who could be anywhere in the world, and probably not anywhere near your power plant) gaining access.

    7. Re:Good luck with that by Korin43 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or we could just not steal a trillion dollars from U.S. citizens and let them spend it on what they want, and then have jobs that are actually in demand created..

    8. Re:Good luck with that by cetialphav · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As we all should know by now, impenetrable security doesn't exist. What we should probably have is tighter backup power for essential services and places like hospitals, where local redundancy could help in the face of a remote 'hacker' type attack

      Places where there is a lot of danger for people without electrical power don't need billions spent on the security of their power systems. They need redundancy, generators in their buildings that could be used to keep people alive, batteries, and common sense.

      This isn't about impenetrable security. This is about taking basic precautions about known attack vectors. For example, many of these systems are not fail safe so an attacker can actually cause a generator to physically destroy itself. Since these generators are very specialized pieces of equipment, you don't just go to Home Depot and pick up another one.

      It is not enough to protect hospitals, etc. A prolonged loss of power to the northern part of the US in the depths of winter would be devastating. Even with backup power supplies, no one has plans to deal with a month of no electricity.

      This isn't about spending money on fear. It is about naively ignoring a threat and hoping it will never happen. We need to find a way to force utility companies to take these threats seriously and the only way to do that is to have financial penalties for lax security.

    9. Re:Good luck with that by rinoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uh, in what made up world?
      http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

      We can't go improvin' our infrastructure now, that'd be socialist and SCARY

      And we can't rely on our socialist defense now can we? That'd be socialist and SCARY too... Oh wait.

    10. Re:Good luck with that by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are we better off spending money assaulting terrorists where they live, or would we be better if we built more skyscrapers? I think no one knows.

    11. Re:Good luck with that by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's perfectly possible. It's called an air gap. If you still want centralized control of a remote substation, don't do it over the public internet. That's not as bad as it sounds in terms of costs, because if you're the power company, you already own a completely independent set of cables to said substation. Now the hacker has to get out of his mom's basement and climb a utility pole to hack you.

      Still worried about the possibility of remote hacking from a guy who spent too much time climbing trees in his childhood? Again: airgap. The only bits that should flow between the data transciever in the substation and the actual critical hardware shouldn't flow directly. Observe below:
      [Command/Control Center] -----dedicated line-----[Rx/Tx Computer]---Low BW Link----[Local Control Computer]----Hardware

      The local control computer, which should be locked up in the substation with a big steel door on it should have internal software interlocks in it that reject bad input from the physically separate transceiver unit. By physically separate, I mean really physically separate, as in one wire per bit for commands and one analog channel for values. Possibly optical lines if we're paranoid about RFI. Now, in order to hack that one substation, the hacker has to physically break into it. At which point we're back to the vulnerability inherent in any distributed dumb system.

      I take cash or check.

    12. Re:Good luck with that by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ten years ago when I last toured an ISO's command center, they were able to project load to within 0.5% 24 hours in advance. Granted, spinning reserve was higher back then, but the fundamental logic hasn't changed much.

      So I am lost as to what the smart grid is actually supposed to do, aside from a fancy version of automated demand-response. It wouldn't be fast enough to actually function as "protection".

    13. Re:Good luck with that by klui · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A bill of rights don't mean jack shit if it's not being enforced. talk to people who were arrested during the GOP convention last year.

    14. Re:Good luck with that by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

      It wouldn't be safe from cat burglars.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    15. Re:Good luck with that by Your.Master · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm suddenly curious at whether, statistically, this use of the word steal garners as much commentary as the copyright infringement use of the word steal does, on slashdot.

    16. Re:Good luck with that by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe it might be for the best to have SCADA controlling systems airgapped, or at the least, if people want reports from the systems, have locked down machines that poll them and then copy the results to another network. You could have two boxes on separate networks that communicate text solely through a serial cable (no PPP or SLIP, just data passed as a stream through the cable from the inside box to the outside one. Perhaps even cut the RX+ and RX- lines going to the inner box for maximum security) to ensure the inside box doesn't get rooted. This is slow (serial isn't the fastest of all protocols, but it is simple), but it will take someone with physical access to compromise such a setup. I have used similar configurations for secure syslog dump hosts (one box would take syslog dumps, then pass them via a serial cable to another box that is not connected on any network. This way even if someone rooted all boxes, he or she couldn't touch the last syslog dump.)

      Maybe these days, two boxes connected via serial and one machine just parsing the other's serial output stream with a glorified tail -f going to whever (web pages, databases) may be not the epitomy of high tech connectivity, but it ensures that a blackhat from offshore isn't going to cause a BLEVE that takes out several city blocks.

    17. Re:Good luck with that by 1s44c · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably impossible.

      As we all should know by now, impenetrable security doesn't exist.

      Maybe not. But a good first step would be to not connect critical infrastructure to the internet.

    18. Re:Good luck with that by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh well, let's spend a bunch of money on fear like we always do.

      Terrorists are the least of out worries here in the midwest US. In the winer we have ice storms, in the spring and summer we have storms and wind. An outage caused by hackers probably wouldn't last lomg here, but when a tornado rips through and destroys every utility pole and the equipment hanging from them, it'll take a while to get back on line.

      When the tornados ripped through here in 2006, as I walked through the destruction in search of a hot cup of coffee the next day, the thing I thought most was "If Bin Laden saw this he'd give up. No way could a terrorist do this much damage!"

      The threat is narural events. The danger from terrorists is minimal.

  2. So... by CrAlt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who thought it would be a swell idea to to hook the grid's computers to the INTERNET?
    Did someone surf some pr0n sites on the Win98 powered control computer down at the power plant?

    --
    I have to return some videotapes...
    1. Re:So... by Peter+Mork · · Score: 4, Informative

      Every time one of these stories hits the Web, I find that I need to explain how control systems end up connected to the Internet (at least in those cases I've heard of). The control system, itself, is NOT connected to the Internet. However, the HR system ends up getting connected to the Internet so that people can fill out their time-cards, etc. Unfortunately, the HR systems are on the same intranet as the control system. So, once an attacker has subverted the HR system, he/she has access to the control system. The only good solution is to run multiple intranets, but this seems rarely to be the case.

    2. Re:So... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Remote access and e-mail notifications more often drive the internet connections we have seen. When facility engineering is out-sourced, it becomes even more complicated, because there is fundamental conflict in the way the contracts are written-- the Owner might require all security go through them, but they don't allow the facility engineers to be on their network.

      Usually you end up with a DSL connection and a "firewall router." Usually it is just a monitoring network, but control seems to creep in more each month.

  3. Hit'em in their wallets by Bananatree3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Congressman Jim Langevin says that US power companies need to be forced to deal with the issue after they told Congress they would take steps to defend their operations but did not follow up. 'They admit that they misled Congress. The private sector has different priorities than we do in providing security. Their bottom line is about profits..."

    Exactly right, this is a capitalist society, ran on making money. If they won't integrate safety systems to protect the system properly from hacker attacks, hit them in the wallet, hard. Pass sound regulation to force them to implement safeguards, require inspections/audits that they are done, not just take their BS word for it. If all they give you is hot air and no implementation, fine them millions of dollars, and on a regular basis if needbe til they implement it.

    1. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by stagg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But how much energy can congress really expect them to expend defending against imagined threats?

    2. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, the energy sector has traditionally been heavily regulated, and works well compared to the huge mess the deregulated banking system made of itself. You do realize that the government took over the banking sector because the bankers failed to run it?

    3. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, of course! The government has already taken over the banking sector, the mortgage sector, the automotive sector, is about to take over the healthcare sector, so fuck it - the government may as well take over the energy sector as well. I can't wait until they take over food distribution - I've always wanted to know what it's like to stand in line for a loaf of bread all day.

      I am not a fan of government intervention either, nor do I like what was done with banking and automobiles. Having said that, this isn't what is being proposed here. If the electric utilities must comply with laws mandating that they meet or exceed a minimum standard of security, this would be much more like the way local Board of Health requires that restaurants handle food in ways that prevent food poisoning. The Board of Health does not own the restaurants and it does not choose their management; it just periodically inspects them and can shut them down if there are egregious violations. Something similar could be worked out for the power companies when it comes to security.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by Scrameustache · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they won't integrate safety systems to protect the system properly from hacker attacks, hit them in the wallet, hard. Pass sound regulation to force them to implement safeguards, require inspections/audits that they are done, not just take their BS word for it.

      Yes, of course! The government has already taken over the banking sector, the mortgage sector, the automotive sector, is about to take over the healthcare sector, so fuck it - the government may as well take over the energy sector as well. I can't wait until they take over food distribution - I've always wanted to know what it's like to stand in line for a loaf of bread all day.

      The great blackout of 2003, which took out the north east united states and a good chunk of ontario, was caused by deregulation (removing the requirement to clear the branches around the power lines).
      Quebec, which has state-owned power (Hydro-Quebec) was not hit hard by that blackout, because it keeps its grid out of phase with those dangerously unregulated parts around it.

      Learn the lesson: You can't trust the greedy to run critical infrastructure.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    5. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by cjfs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly right, this is a capitalist society, ran on making money. If they won't integrate safety systems to protect the system properly from hacker attacks, hit them in the wallet, hard.

      This is the fundamental point. Those with the ability to secure the system need to be the ones paying for breeches. Bruce Schneier had several good articles around this point. The main example being banks/credit card companies paying for fraud. If they could just push that onto the customer, there would be far more instances of fraud. Instead, they take responsibility for the whole system and customers are far better off for it.

    6. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course, what you libertarians fail to mention is that the banking sector was regulated for decades following the great depression, which had been largely caused by banks, and that we then deregulated the banks, which unsurprisingly led to this current catastrophe. The government has, once again, been forced to clean up after a bunch of private banks nearly ruined the entire country; yes, the government does a better job managing the banking system than the bankers themselves do. Nobody is talking about a complete takeover of the banks, just enough oversight and regulation to prevent them from destroying our economy.

      The government regulates the energy sector, and look at what we have: a system that has not imploded on itself, the way the banks nearly did. Sounds like a pretty solid strategy to me -- and given the attacks in Brazil, it sounds like the government should add some new regulations to the list for energy companies, in the interest of national security.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by maxume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Credit card companies push the consequences of fraud onto stores and such. Those stores that choose to accept credit card payments factor the risk of fraud into the prices they charge. The credit card companies do attempt to protect their customers from fraud, but only because they wouldn't make any money if they didn't have any members (they also work with stores to prevent fraud, as they figure it will lead to clearing more transactions).

      The credit card companies certainly don't pay for fraud though.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But how much energy can congress really expect them to expend defending against imagined threats?

      There's nothing imagined about any of these threats. They are very, very real. What we know about is scary enough, what we may yet learn could be truly frightening. Maybe you caught that little part in the story where the military is having some of their computer chips made overseas. I wonder how much money you'd think it would be worth to stop four of five of our own Predators and Reapers from bombing US cities? Or a couple nukes going off in their silos? Or all of our refineries melting down at once while the rest of us are sitting around in the dark?

      Virtually all our PC's, processors and hard drives are made overseas. By sending all our manufacturing overseas, we may be setting ourselves up for an attack that will make 9/11 look like lunch at Hooters.

      We already know what happens when someone whines about imaginary threats...like foreigners taking airline flight lessons.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    9. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by inhuman_4 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thats crazy talk. Here is the solution:

      1) It's government regulation that is the problem. If the government would just loosen the regulations a little the power companies would be able to make more money. Then they could spend that money on other things like security, safety, and protecting the environment.

      2) We should allow power companies to join the RIAA. Once hackers know they will face life imprisonment for copy right infringement, they will too scared to do anything. While we are at it, why not just give every industrial union (yes that what they are, corporate unions that hassle the government) the power to fuck over the average citizen.

      3) As an added bonus, we can pass laws demanding to know what people have plugged into their wall sockets, you know ..... to ahh ...... watch for hackers! This of course only applies to peoples homes (and by people I mean non-rich people), applying this to businesses would make it harder for them to compete.

      4) Profit!

      Can I get my Republican kickbacks now?

    10. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Informative

      and that we then deregulated the banks,

      We did not deregulate the banks. We removed some of the regulation, but we did not deregulate them. You can't do some things half-way and have them not fail. We had too much regulation to make them be fully deregulated and therefore not fail, and too little regulation for them not to fail. We can't know what would happen if banks were fully deregulated because they were not (and don't even bring up the great depression because there was again, too much regulation to be free and too little to be controlled).

      The government regulates the energy sector, and look at what we have: a system that has not imploded on itself

      Yeah, but a system that is still a pain. Lets see, if I'm unhappy about the level of service of my current utility what are my options? Not a whole lot. If I don't like my bank there are at least 5 within about 5 miles where I live. On the other hand if I don't like my utility company (and for the record I don't) my options are to either move far away and thats about it. Utility companies are inflexible, charge outrageous rates, have low standards of service, and have unexplained long blackouts. I'm confident that a Windows server can have a higher uptime than some utility companies... Just because the electricity is -mostly- on doesn't mean that its a great system.

      and given the attacks in Brazil, it sounds like the government should add some new regulations to the list for energy companies, in the interest of national security.

      Or you know, how about allowing utility companies to actually compete for prices, service and security. For example, Rackspace is going to do everything in is power to keep their servers online and free of any attacks that might endanger their uptime because there are many hosting companies out there, utility companies on the other hand are free to take their sweet time, its not like their customers can exactly switch to a different company.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    11. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      These bankers, how exactly did they "fail"? And it seems their only "punishment" was a bonus, or a job offer... running the SEC??

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    12. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Informative

      The great blackout of 2003, which took out the north east united states and a good chunk of ontario, was caused by deregulation (removing the requirement to clear the branches around the power lines).
      Quebec, which has state-owned power (Hydro-Quebec) was not hit hard by that blackout, because it keeps its grid out of phase with those dangerously unregulated parts around it.

      Learn the lesson: You can't trust the greedy to run critical infrastructure.

      Misleading and incorrect.

      1. The article your cited does not state that the blackout was due to deregulation "removing the requirement to clear branches around the power lines." It states, quite clearly, that the main cause was due to a generating plant going offline, then several power transmission lines going offline (or "tripping") due to tree contact. Nowhere does it say that deregulation had anything to do with that sequence of events.

      Since you're too busy being pedantic and patronizing to look for this follow-up info, here's the keywords you need: “Utility Vegetation Management Final Report,”

      At first glance, Rule 218 seems clear in its intent, but it has historically generated a great deal of
      industry discussion regarding what it actually requires. For example, the use of the word
      “should” versus “shall” points to its application as a general guideline, not a mandate. More
      importantly, Rule 218 does not specifically state that clearances should be “maintained”
      between energized lines and vegetation. While some have argued that it can be interpreted as a
      “no-touch rule”, the industry has not interpreted it to require that mandatory clearances be
      maintained at all times.

      You have to FORCE them to do their job right, or else they'll argue that they don't have to, and they'll let their negligent ways cause major inconveniences for millions of people.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    13. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

      We did not deregulate the banks.

      Not completely, but enough to cause the financial mess. The Glass-Steagal act was passed in the Depression to prevent future disasters like that. It worked, until the Act was overturned in 1999/2000 by a Republican congress and Bill Clinton. Then we got a real estate bubble and a meltdown.

      Yeah, but a system that is still a pain. Lets see, if I'm unhappy about the level of service of my current utility what are my options? Not a whole lot. If I don't like my bank there are at least 5 within about 5 miles where I live.

      Apples and oranges. What do you propose? 10 sets of power lines running everywhere? There's a reason utilities are highly regulated monopolies: because it's simply impractical and absurd to have multiple power companies, multiple (landline) phone companies, multiple cable companies servicing the same areas. They tried this with telephones in the early 1900s in Manhattan and it was a disaster; you can find photos on the internet showing the ridiculous telephone poles with hundreds of wires on them. Maybe you'd like to have dozens of water and sewer pipes running everywhere too.

      If you don't like your power company, you're free to buy a generator and make your own power. Part of living in a society means giving up some of your freedoms, and freedom of choice is definitely one of those. You can't choose your government (at least without agreement from your fellow voters), and you can't choose your utilities. Deal with it.

      Or you know, how about allowing utility companies to actually compete for prices, service and security.

      Compete against who? No one wants dozens of sets of power lines running through their neighborhoods. Stop being idiotic.

    14. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by demachina · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Well, the energy sector has traditionally been heavily regulated, and works well compared"

      Well excepting for that Enron/Dynegy/Reliant/Williams thing where they nearly bankrupted California manipulating the electricity market, shutting off power plants to create artificial shortages for example, and FERC mostly sat on the sidelines watching.

      And then of course there was oil spiking to $140 a barrel due to market manipulation, though chances are you can probably blame a fair bit of that on Goldman/Citi and other big Wall Street banks manipulating the commodities markets for profit.

      --
      @de_machina
    15. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by deepershade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have karma to burn so what the hell.
      He's right, you were being highly pedantic and confrontational, only barely challenging his statements.
      It does give people the impression that, as previously stated, you are a twat.


      Mod me down. It'll be a first for me :)

    16. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by dvorakkeyboardrules · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, the energy sector has traditionally been heavily regulated, and works well compared to the huge mess the deregulated banking system made of itself. You do realize that the government took over the entire banking sector because certain bankers failed to run the companies they managed rather than let the companies go bankrupt so the assets could be put under better management?

      There, fixed that for you.

    17. Re:Hit'em in their wallets by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We can't know what would happen if banks were fully deregulated

      read a little history, young man.

      Lets see, if I'm unhappy about the level of service of my current utility what are my options? Not a whole lot.

      Exactly. They are beholden to the shareholders, not their customers. They're a monopoly and don't have to care about their customers. A lot of the financial mess we're in now is a result of businesses that aren't monopolies acting as if they were.

      My utility company is owned by the city. If they piss me off I'll not vote for the incumbant mayor (an dthat's happened here before). As a result, we get cheap dependable power.

      Or you know, how about allowing utility companies to actually compete for prices, service and security.

      And how do you go about that? Have ten different power grids in your town with ten electric companies, all with their own poles and cables? Utilities are a natural monoploly and NEED to be heavily regulated. Actually, natural monopolies shouw be owned by the city or state. It's the only way they can be held accountable to the people who pay them.

  4. Internets... by Shadyman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Things like this make me wonder why mission- and life-critical systems are (presumably) set up on Internet-facing systems. Sure, it's cheap, but when the walls come tumbling down like this article implies, cost is a moot point.

    I don't see why they can't just buy a phone line for each power station and link to central stations (also with NON-Internet-facing systems) like that.

  5. Security by Renraku · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most systems here in the US are only secure because they're obscure. Someone who has worked in the industry for more than about a year has enough knowledge to cause some widespread destruction. Up until recently, the emergency broadcast service was only a phone number and modem, with no authentication!

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    1. Re:Security by Falconhell · · Score: 2, Funny

      wreak havoc on the airport as all bags get re-routed to who knows where.

      Is that not standard airline practice?

      Hell the bags might end up at the right place for once.....

    2. Re:Security by cptdondo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hehe... Back when I was in the Air Force, we had a squirrel shut down the entire base for 8 hours. S/he crawled into the main power station, and committed suicide across the breakers, blowing up a good chunk of the station and about 100' of main feeder line.

      Today no doubt the press would have whipped up frenzy about a "possible terrorist attack" with artistic renderings of the squirrel in mufti....

  6. Nostalgia by stagg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Awfully reminiscent of the hysteria that took place in the 80s, when the FBI and media were convinced that hackers were going to "crash the grid," launch a nuclear attack or god knows what other heinous crimes. The cost to the freedom of their own citizens, and the financial expenditure on all of this hysteria seems awfully prohibitive compared to the actual risk.

    1. Re:Nostalgia by Telvin_3d · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The cost to the freedom of their own citizens, and the financial expenditure on all of this hysteria seems awfully prohibitive compared to the actual risk.

      To be fair, almost no amount of prevention could begin to equal the cost of a truly major event like a significant amount of the US power grid being down for more than a brief flicker.

  7. You need SCADA security by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Informative

    I work for a company involved in SCADA systems that control half of Australia's water supply and a fair bit of the country's power grid.

    SCADA networks have evolved, out of convenience, to coexist with existing LANS and thus progressively have become more dependent on TCP/IP protocols, thus becoming (rather by default) Internet-enabled.

    Vulnerabilities are to some degree covered by the RTU programming, which has built in safeguards against doing wrong things. But it's not impossible for a dedicated hacker to create a bit of havoc, and this point is not lost on our client base. Our clients are actively investing now to isolate SCADA networks from the Internet, because safety has to overrule operational convenience. Work is going on now, and the door is fast closing on this avenue of attack.

    It's all about SCADA. Little intelligent valves in little steel boxes attached to a lot of industrial plant. It's automation, true, but there are rather a lot of eyes watching it.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    1. Re:You need SCADA security by twostix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then again I could just take my $2000 plasma cutter, $500 generator and $6000 hilux and head up into the mountains and take down three or four high voltage towers and kill power to about 8 million people for a week or more and be home before nightfall. Just in time to laugh at all of you while you scream in hysteria demanding quadzillions be spent on protecting over hyped "attack vectors".

      Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...

      But as long as it's protected by fancy sounding acronyms it appears the white shirts are satisfied.

  8. Re:guess what's next ? by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can you guys dream about Canadian currency being valued at 50% when we export and 500% when we import?

    Thanks in advance.

  9. Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency by stonedcat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are you suggesting censorship? I think the current modding system does the trick in most cases, but if you'd like I'm sure a slashdot.cn can be arranged.

    --
    You can't take the sky from me.
  10. Re:Those gosh-darned HACKERS again by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. We lost the terminology war a decade ago. It's time we deal with it.

  11. Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because the remedy for bad speech is more speech. Censorship is never justified. If a post gives you the vapors, stop reading it. A free society is one where it's perfectly fine to stand on a soapbox and make a fool of yourself. I'd like Slashdot to stay as free as possible.

  12. Why? by CrAlt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you have transmission lines running from point A to point B then why cant you just string a data line right below the transmission lines? You already own the right of way. You already have the towers/pole line ran. Compared to the cost of a big high tension line the cost of a little data line would be nothing.

    --
    I have to return some videotapes...
    1. Re:Why? by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, if only someone would invent a way to transmit data using light, maybe over a long fibre of some transparent material...

    2. Re:Why? by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why bother? Just use the Internet. Banks run transaction traffic through the internet, of course heavily encrypted, with proper integrity protection and certificates. It's entirely possible to do this securely, the global economy already depends on this capability.

      There is no need to reinvent the wheel, the power companies should just be using proper compartmentalization techniques to dig some trenches between the internet and their systems.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
  13. Like we'd respond that well by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'If the power grid was taken off line in the middle of winter and it caused people to suffer and die, that would galvanize the nation. I hope we don't get there.

    If 9/11 was any indication, our national response would be characterized by...

    • NSA snooping into all of our computers, and "state secrets" claimed whenever we tried to invoke the 4th Amendment in court.
    • A few massive, no-bid contracts by the Federal Government which achieve almost nothing of value.
    • RIAA/MPAA sleezeballs capitalizing on it in ways I don't even want to contemplate.
    • Possibly an insane (think Sarbanes-Oxley) amount of red tape added to many computer installations in the country.
    • Republicans and Democrats somehow finding a way to blame each other for this, deadlocking the Legislature for a while, and then in some kind of last-minute spasm, pass an appaling bill to just have the appearance of doing something.

    Only in my wildest fantasies would such an attack mobilize the country to have a rational, balanced cyber-security posture.

    1. Re:Like we'd respond that well by lennier · · Score: 3, Funny

      "RIAA/MPAA sleezeballs capitalizing on it in ways I don't even want to contemplate."

      When you install photoelectric panels, you're BURNING our fossil fuel industry!

      Passive home heating is like passive smoking: IT KILLS! Insist on genuine 2000 Megawatt active air conditioning from a certified generation station.

      You wouldn't steal a car... so why build a windmill? Just because all your friends are doing it doesn't make it right!

      Firewood is BOLSHEVISM!

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  14. California power embargo of 2000/1 by 0WaitState · · Score: 4, Interesting
    'If the power grid was taken off line in the middle of winter and it caused people to suffer and die, that would galvanize the nation

    So the enron-organized power embargo hitting california in the summer of 2001 is now being recognized as terrorism? The central valley and inland empire areas hit 100+ degrees most summer days. Wonder how many elderly died, or had their lifespans shortened due to heat stress during the rolling power outages.

    --

    Remain calm! All is well!
  15. Naive Population by spyder-implee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You are extremely Naive if you believe this garbage. Blaming bandits for the shortcomings of the government is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

    --
    Take what ye can. Give nothing back!
    1. Re:Naive Population by upside · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The government is just a corporate sock puppet, and blaming the government is one of the oldest tricks in the corporate handbook.

      1) Lobby for deregulation
      2) Profit
      3) Shit hits the fan
      4) Blame the goverment
      5) GOTO 1

      --
      I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
  16. No Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Up until recently, the emergency broadcast service was only a phone number and modem, with no authentication!

    The CATV company I work for had a crazy insecure ebs system. It was these ancient boxes in the head ends that just watched for a carrier on a certain freq in the return path. Once it saw any carrier it would flip over the EBS system and all the audio on our analog channels would go down. This carrier came from another dumb box that was in the main head end. That box was triggered by a unsecured phone line and all you needed to do was know the number to it. All anyone needed to spam 250K customers was a telephone.

    The whole system looked like it was built by some ham radio op with parts from RadioShack in the 1980's.

    We only got rid of this system LAST YEAR after some prankster with a signal generator figgered out how to trigger one of the dumb boxes. We now have a new system with scrolling text across the screen and clear audio... though I wouldn't be surprised if it was just as half assed as the old system.

    Im posting this AC because coworkers know my /. nick :)

  17. Re:America? by nomadic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you're confused about the English language! "In America" certainly includes any country in either North or South America.

    English is defined by customary usage. If you said "In America" to 100 English speakers, MAYBE one would include any other country than the US. If you're lucky.

  18. Liberals by similar_name · · Score: 4, Funny

    More liberal regulation. Doesn't everyone know that capitalism is best for us? Those that control the energy industry seek money and that in America is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. Money fixes everything. After all our money says 'In God We Trust'. It's practically blessed. The golden calf is god.

    I haven't been modded troll or flamebait in a long time, just thought I'd try it out.

  19. Re:guess what's next ? by ErkDemon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Enron demonstrated that it was possible for a single employee to shut down a power station remotely, simply by calling the control centre from an Enron office, giving his name and position, and asking politely whether it would be possible for the plant to have an impromptu maintenance shutdown for a few hours please, and yes, he did appreciate that once it was shut down it'd take a while to start it up again.

    That's how brokers caused the plant shutdowns that caused the brownouts that allowed Enron to gouge electricity prices in California, by charging for the emergency rerouting required to patch the problems that they'd just deliberately created.

    So back in the Enron days, you wouldn't have needed two nuclear subs. Just one guy with a telephone, calling all the power stations in turn and asking each of them nicely if they could shut down at a predetermined time and go into "heavy maintenance" mode, but please not to discuss this with anyone else, because of company confidentiality (or because of security).

    BTW, you know how you take out the conventional phone and mobile networks? You don't have to. Once the emergency services see the power stations going down and think there's a coordinated attack, they shut down all the public communications as a security measure. You get that for free. So the Employee tells the plant to shut down as a security measure because the NSA has tipped them off that Something Bad is going down, and for God's Sake not to power up again under any circumstances unless they get a particular codeword (which, of course, nobody else has). All the plants shut down together, a bunch of pre-programmed scare stories break on the net, this seems to support the tale that the employee told about there being an imminent security thing, the phone lines and media communications go dead, and by the time people have worked out what's happened, nobody can get through to the power plants to tell them that they've been conned. And when they do, they don't have the fake password. You then have the local power guys desperately defending their plant from the local enforcement guys who want to turn it back on, and perhaps even sabotaging it if they look like they're about to lose.

    Telephones are dangerous things. Hopefully it wouldn't work nowadays, because people are more savvy about such things (and because they remember the Enron tapes).

  20. From Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Having worked at a utility in an IT consulting position I've had some experience supporting/implementing the control systems for a reasonably large scale SCADA system.

    What I've come across is the people running/maintaining the SCADA system often don't have a Security/IT background, they have an electrical engineering or similar background. This can often make discussions about firewalls - TCP/IP and routing challenging. On top of this, most of the guys (and it is guys) involved are older, engineering types with the culture and communication differences that that implies. They are often very reluctant to let IT in to their systems to assist. Workstations/servers are often not visible to standard IT management processes like patch management and antivirus because of inter-group politics.

    We run into the classic security vs. usability argument. More security often makes it more difficult for them to do their job (at least for them) and is also much harder to implement, maintain and troubleshoot.

    A lot of systems have historically been serial and have migrated over to IP gradually. This has often been done without adequate planning and analysis, resulting in a system that is deemed successful because it works, not because it is secure.

    Money as always is a factor. I know for a fact the enhanced security version of the SCADA solution was NOT installed, as it was too hard and too expensive and as a result was put off until later.

    In our case, all the devices and RTUs out there come in over a private network, NOT the internet. This traffic is in the process of being encrypted with IPSEC. The weak point is and will always be the client devices or terminals. Remote access to these is the achilles heel of any system. Having such systems completely separate should be a requirement, but is often put aside in the name of usability for workers to get access from home, or the ability to access the internet from the control PC.

    The requirements for criticial infrastructure exists and has done for some time, ISO27002 and NERC have a huge number of requirements. Good luck finding a utility that complies with all of them.

    A horrific incident may be the catalyst to have changes made. But in the meantime it's down to money, silos and politics.

  21. Independent System Operators by eldurbarn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Independent System Operators (ISOs) exercise real-time control of the grids. I can't speak for others, but I do know how the New England ISO does things. Yes, there's a lot of automation... but the entire system is designed to have a "man in the loop". Add to this the fact that there are two completely independent systems for monitoring the Area Control Error (ACE) (the amount by which generation doesn't match load) and you get a situation where a hacked system would become very obvious, very quickly.

    The uber-emergency last ditch ACE monitor is an un-networked box that monitors analogue signals sent to it over microwave relays. As of today (as far as I know) you can't hack a box that you cannot connect to.

    Yes, it's possible for a cyber attack on an ISO to create a measure of chaos, a degree of frustration and a burning desire to "get rid of" that hacker, but these men and women are dedicated professionals and they engage in a process that has been honed and refined over the last few decades. I shan't say that it's impossible, but I honestly believe that it would be highly unlikely that meddling in the data stream (SCADA) or accessing the control computers would bring about massive failures.

    For that sort of thing to happen, you need a perfect storm of failures.
     

    --
    -Eldurbarn
  22. If the power grid is so vulnerable, why hasn't... by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...it been taken out in the U.S.?

    If there's a dozen guys pissed off and zealous/brave/willing/stupid enough to hijack planes and fly them into buildings, surely there's 100s more pissed off guys with m@d sk1llz who could do this, and wouldn't be held back because it's not a suicide mission, and doesn't directly burn thousands to death in an ensuing fire and crash.

    And I'd wager that hacking the power system is probably a decidedly less resource-intensive activity than even small-scale physical attacks (bomb/gun/kidnapping/etc), the participants can engage in almost total anonymity, and there's no messy explosives/weapons to buy or store or get caught with. All this means its something that even a lone crank could pull off, opening the doors to a whole panoply of groups with gripes, including or especially all manner of domestic crackpots. You don't need Al Quaalude or zillions of dollars or a complex intelligence network.

    Forcing the grid offline and in a way that kept it down/brain damaged for any length of time over 48-72 hours, especially if it was widespread, would have such a cascading effect and probably spawn anarchy. At a minimum billions lost, thousands killed, possibly riots or widespread civil disorder. Katrina times 9/11. So the effect would be substantial and easily deniable, making it the kind of thing China or Russia or any other competitive major power might want to do just to fuck with the Americans and keep them off balance.

    Yet it hasn't happened here or Western Europe or most modern Asian countries. Why?

  23. Why these systems are connected to the Internet by Tweezer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know all the comments are about to come flooding in that these systems should be air gapped from the Internet, but that isn't practical in today's environment. These systems need to be indirectly connected to the corporate networks, because the data is valuable to the companies. Much of this is due to deregulation. Since deregulation electric utilities no longer operate as islands with their own generation, transmission and customers. Since nobody liked monopolies in the energy industry, the pieces aren't necessarily owned by the same companies anymore. Energy is also bought and sold in a market environment with prices changing all the time and the information is exchanged over the Internet. If you want to see the current Megawatt Hour (MWh) prices in the midwest check out http://www.midwestiso.org/page/LMP+Contour+Map+(EOR). Needless to say air gapping isn't practical in today's environment.

  24. and the attack stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    just because the hacker didn't have an UPS...

  25. goes good with popcorn by Eil · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'If I were an attacker and wanted to do strategic damage to the United States, I would either take the cold of winter or the heat of summer,' says McConnell, 'I would probably sack electric power on the US East Coast, maybe the West Coast and attempt to cause a cascading effect.'

    Oh yeah, well if I were an attacker, I would build a gravity weapon so powerful that it would pull the moon out of its orbit and crash it into the earth.

    OR I would create a poison so potent that just a few drops of it in any lake would kill everyone within a 5-mile radius.

    OR I would plant thermonuclear bombs in the capitals of the 10 largest cities in the U.S. and detonate them all at once.

    See, Mike McConnell? It's easy to invent terrorist movie plots. If they gave out awards for Most Creative Terrorist Strategies That Would Never Work, you all all of your three-letter agencies would win first prize every time.

  26. Part of it has to do with by kilodelta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The SCADA systems. Some genius decided to write a TCP/IP stack for SCADA and then put an ethernet port on the damned things. And what did the utility companies do but hook em' up to an IP network. Not very smart.

  27. Re:America? by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Informative
    (checks wallet)... I have 30 cents here and neither coin is a nickel. Both show Betty Windsor Junior on one side, and one has a platypus on the other. What strange country are you from that doesn't have the Queen on your coins? Or platypese?

    Barbarians.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  28. Re:guess what's next ? by tuomoks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You hit the problem for today - the social engineering, how the command hierarchy works and that's much more dangerous than any "computer" virus or whatever. I have worked on nuclear power, stock exchange, banking (even Swiss!), military, public safety, hospital, etc environments and they used to have "fail safes" against this kind of problems - now, today, those "fail safes" are often disabled because of business, profits whatever? And it's scary!

    Enron couldn't be possible 20 years ago, at least not in environments, countries and corporations I was working at that time, too tight security / control but today?

    Anyhow, back to the original subject, the technology is there - it was there in 80's when I was involved to some nuclear / power control systems. Is the knowledge / will there today is another question. Almost seems that this "maximizing profits" is even accepting the problems (for public) as long as the business can make more?

  29. NERC CIP by fungaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Electric utilities are already being required to beef up security. The North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC) has a fairly extensive set of mandatory compliance standards for "Critical Infrastructure Protection (CIP)." I don't know why this was omitted from the story. If you don't comply with the standards, you're subject to some heavy fines. Go search on 'nerc cip' and see how there's a whole cottage industry of consultants gearing up for this.

  30. Obvious solution by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "We need to change their motivation so that when see vulnerability like this, we can require them to fix it.'"

    Why the hell is this so hard to figure out? Hold cooperation responsible for the negative effects caused by their negligence. Power going out because a skilled hacker found an exploit that the best security experts couldn't find is one thing. But power going out because the IT dept. at the power company decided that they didn't need to take basic security measures is another, that's negligance.

    If people die because the power went out and the power went out due to negligence (i.e. some 15 year old managed to ssh into the power plant and fuck everything up because the root password was "password") then charge the company with criminally negligent homicide.

    We don't need some special, new incentive to get companies to protect the public interest. We just need to remove all of the immunity we've given the companies. The only question we have to answer here is why the fuck did we give companies immunity from the consequences of their actions?

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  31. Re:Otherwise summarized as: by v1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Unsecure infrastructure networks vulnerable to internet based attack.

    Movie at 10.

    Movie Postponed due to power failure.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  32. Re:So how exactly does this work? by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 2, Informative
    To answer your question as succinctly as possible.

    Yes.

    There is actually more than one way to turn them off (safeguards and such), but the actual generator button at my plant is both big and red. Additionally, it's not wired in to the system. The safeguards are also physically wired to cause trips. There are also redundancies built in to ensure those trips and they're hardwired. At best, for the plant that I work at, a hacker could operate a non-critical component. That's assuming they could get through the truckload of security from their end to the control end, which is engineered to be absolutely impossible.

  33. Smart grid makes it more exposed to hacking by George_Ou · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Smart grid makes it more exposed to hacking. If we're talking about the ability to manage major appliances such that they can be spread out so that we can put a higher load on the grid without overloading it, imagine if someone broke into that system and did the opposite by synchronizing usage. Coupled with the fact that loads are even higher, it's a perfect storm for melting down parts of the grid which would take a long time to repair. During that time, people who are most vulnerable (the elderly) would die.

  34. Re:If the power grid is so vulnerable, why hasn't. by cptdondo · · Score: 3, Informative

    >

    Yet it hasn't happened here or Western Europe or most modern Asian countries. Why?

    Well, at least where I work, we no longer allow modems to be attached to any equipment. This is a huge cost item; that means we have to fly in a tech with a laptop for several thousand dollars when something goes down instead of allowing the factory to dial in on their modem.

    We choose to do this as we are a "major" target - a medium sized public utility. I would guess many of the smaller utilities don't have the resources to do this. So it's a question of targets; if someone was to study the network, they could identify a weak small utility that could bring down a larger utility that would then cascade to a major failure down the line. I'd guess it hasn't happened because the outcome is uncertain and not guaranteed; our operators are pretty damn good at taking care of upstream failures.

  35. I disagree with the military... I am brazilian... by jorlando · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The blackout in 2005 was a human failure. One transmission line went down, the team recovering that line made a mistake and instead of activating the repaired line disabled the backup line. Result: 3 states withou electric power.

    The blackout in 2007 was due a circuit breaker shutting down one line, the same happening after in the backup line, that could manage the excess load (this happened during peak hours, 5 p.m. during a working day).

    Ok, these are official explanations and the blackouts may have been caused by evil hackers but, in this case, the brazilian government made an excelent job holding that information for years, leaking now thanks to an american former military that may have some vested interest spreading fear.

    2 cents..

  36. Re:America? by Your.Master · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm a Canadian, and I've lived throughout Canada. I have NEVER met anybody outside the Internet who thinks American, in spoken English, means anything other than somebody from the United States of America (North American, maybe, but never "American"). There are a significant portion of them that would be insulted to be themselves referred to as Americans; the rest (aslo a significant portion) would simply be amused.

    It's not about not being the whole world. It's about how the language is used. What the hell does your crowd call Canadians, anyway? Can't be "United Statesians", since there's more than one United States in the world.

    I assert (based on admittedly anecdotal evidence) that if you ask a random sampling of 100 native born English-speaking Canadians, probably less than 1 and certainly less than 5 would think "American" would refer to anything else but people from the USA.

    And I think you know that too, if you're truly Canadian. Although it's a big country, maybe you live in some small enclave where that flies among your friends. I've spent most of my time in the most populous parts of the country. But certainly national television *always* uses American to refer to people from the USA.

  37. Re:If the power grid is so vulnerable, why hasn't. by VShael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yet it hasn't happened here or Western Europe or most modern Asian countries. Why?

    Because the enemies you keep hearing about, are neither as a numerous nor as powerful as your government would like you to believe.

    It suits the agenda of those in power, to have a public who are so shit-scared about terrorists, that they will accept any indignity, any intrusion into their lives, any loss of freedom... just to make the terrorism fear go away.

  38. Re:America? by WaroDaBeast · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, the grandparent post is totally right.

    First, because English is defined by customary usage: if, for instance, a majority of English speakers start pronouncing a word in a different way, then that pronunciation will become valid after a while. The shift could also occur semantically. The French have the Académie française, the Germans have the Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung; but for the English tongue, there exist no such academy.

    Secondly, one should not forget that language is by no means systematic. Take the word "anti-Semitism," for example. We all know it means "hatred towards Jews." Now, let's decompose that word for analytical purposes:
    - anti- means "against"
    - Semite means "Semitic-speaking person"
    Woah, wait... Arabic — among other languages — is also a Semitic language. So why has the word "Semite" come to specifically designate Jews? For the same reason we call the United States "America" or the Caribbeans, the "West Indies."

    So, the bottom line is: in linguistics, pragmatism often wins where logics ought to prevail.

    --
    "The body may heal, but the mind is not always so resilient." -- Deus Ex: Human Revolution
  39. Why have these systems on the internet? by kannibul · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Such a simple solution...keep at least 1 staff person there (3 shifts) and have a computer that connects their desktop system to where-ever it needs to go - but leave the systems that manages the critical systems off the internet...100% hacker proof. There is plenty of room in a profit-margin to employ someone to sit there and watch a screen.

  40. cyber bullshit .. by viralMeme · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is little hard evidence in the 'report' as to what caused these outages in Brazil. And given that since at least 2003, the US administration has been well aware of the dangers of putting control equipment on the Internet, why are they still doing it? This whole cyberscare story is yet another pretext for getting more funding.

    Authorities blame human error for Jan.1 blackout - Brazil

    A power cut .. was caused by a combination of technical and human error .. when two of the four lines running from the Cachoeira Paulista substation - between Sao Paulo and Minas Gerais states - to Rio de Janeiro failed. A third line was switched off because of the low consumption on what was a public holiday, and the system operator accidentally disconnected the fourth line

  41. redundancy by delvsional · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In areas that are cold enough to require heat to survive, Electricity is not allowed to be the only source of heat. You must have a backup such as propane or a woodstove. I'm not sure but I think its part of building code. If you think people are going to die from the cold, you, like the congressman, are misguided.

    --
    Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....