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Easing the Job of Family Tech Support?

Posted by Soulskill on from the shock-collars-and-a-willingness-to-yell dept.

DarkDevil writes "Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users. I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch. Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat, which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it. 4-8 months later, it happens again. Recently, I found ~380 instances of malware and 6 viruses. I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it. My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format? The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers."

68 of 932 comments (clear)

  1. Give Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    People use something they don't understand...Or just don't want to know how to...

    1. Re:Give Up by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mod parent up. You failed at this back when you were at "a young age". What you should have done is fake some sort learning development problem, (eg dyslexia), and saved yourself a lot of hassle.

      (No, I couldn't find a link to that PA comic. Somebody else will have to do that.)

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Give Up by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live six states away from my nearest blood relative. Of course, that didn't stop my sister (who lives on the other frickin' coast of the continent) from calling me up, asking me to help her troubleshoot an issue with qmail on one of her webservers (she owns a small webservice company).

      She was mildly miffed when her company got invoiced at the 'family rate' ($75/hr) - but at least haven't had any further requests for pro-level help since. :)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:Give Up by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everything you said is true, but what is an average person supposed to do about malware riding on downloaded programs? People like you & I have, through years of internet use, developed a sixth sense for "good" vs "bad" on the internet, but you can't teach an average person how to identify a "bad" download. For them, it pretty much comes down to one of two options: (1)take everything, including the malware, or (2)never download anything, ever. I'm not sure the latter is a realistic option...

    4. Re:Give Up by Chapter80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My usual approach is in the form of an analogy.

      "You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"

      "You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"

      "A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us
      to transfer the sum of Twenty Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars ( $20,500,000 ) into his / her account.This fund resulted by way
      of gratification from a contract awarded by us under the budget allocation to my Ministry and this bill has been approved for payment by
      the concerned Ministries.' Do you give them your bank account number?"

      Etc.

    5. Re:Give Up by bcmm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Baby vs. Rhino
      And you picked a bad example. Dyslexics tend to be better with computers than the rest of the population. If you're practically illegible when using a pen like I am, you tend to develop fast typing (spellcheckers are pretty cool too).

      And dyslexia doesn't stop one's family asking for tech support. Got all but one of them on Linux now though, which helps.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    6. Re:Give Up by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you forgot this: http://xkcd.com/627/

      --
      Collector's Edition
    7. Re:Give Up by value_added · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reasonable and useful analogies. However ...

      "You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"

      In a GUI centric world, the average user doesn't understand the source or meaning of error messages, warnings, or confirmation dialogs. They're just another window that pops up on what they believe to be an "appliance". It isn't the window they're interested in, and not knowing what to do with it, they just want it to go away.

      "You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"

      A package in the mail has all it's shipping information clearly printed on the outside. With email, the information is in the headers, most all of which are routinely hidden (what is visible is often useless or suspect). The average user has no idea headers exist, and will reject any prodding that they learn how to read them, replying that they clutter up their screen (like viewing file extensions).

      Moreover, they certainly don't want to know about MIME structures. Attachments? If it's like a package in the mail, how to know what it is if you don't open it?

      "A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of ... Do you give them your bank account number?"

      An example that's more "real world" to the average user. Regrettably, in the real world, people (especially older folks) do fall prey to scams or otherwise obvious fraud.

    8. Re:Give Up by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help. If you are at least a halfway decent person, chances are you got that way because your parents didn't give up on you when you needed help and education. Time to pay back the favor. I'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things, but will not fix them. My suggestions:

      Be prepared.

      • Don't do a complete re-install every time. Do a full, fresh install once, patch it, apply anti virus/malware/spyware software, and install applications that they want. Once in a known-good state, back up the system. (1)
      • Be proactive and do periodic maintenance. Every month or so, check that their system is clean and fully patched and do another backup. Never overwrite your first full backup.
      • If you are not familiar with a live-cd version of linux, start learning. As long as the problem isn't the hardware, having a bootable linux cd as a rescue disk is often my first step in un-borking a friend/family member's PC.
      • Give them accounts with limited privileges.

      When re-imaging a system:

      • Boot to a live cd, back up any data (pictures, email folders, etc) might be recently changed and still wanted.
      • Wipe out the hard drive completely. If your parents' system is chronically infested, there is a distinct chance that very nasty content has found its way onto that drive and could be found in a forensic examination. Use the "wipe" utility, or the "dd" utility to make sure you have a squeaky clean slate to work on.
      • Restore the patched OS from your last known-good backup, reinstall any apps not previously backed up, and restore the user data.

      Doing all that will take a lot of time, but can mostly run without a babysitter.

      If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile, you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in. Start with a known-good OS image, create a VM from it, clone the VM, and let them run the clone. Erase the clone when it gets buggy, re-clone the original, patch it, and off they go again.

      (1) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment. If there is a network available with more than one computer attached, I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that. Otherwise, I'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed. Or you can get a USB key and back up to that, although that won't give you much room for incremental backups. Or back up to DVD+R, although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    9. Re:Give Up by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Funny

      im going to have to agree. I'm dyslexic and am working on my Ph.D in Computer Science. Also, everyone in my house is using Linux now too since I refused to support Windows any longer. There hasn't been a single problem since. Dyslexics Untie!

      All you dyslexic linux worshipers - linux is the work of Santa, not Dog!

    10. Re:Give Up by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      ". Immediately blaming Windows and suggesting a 'nuke it from orbit' option like switching OS's? Rubbish. The problem is in human behavior, not in the operating system."

      True, but 9 times out of ten, it is easier and faster to change the OS than the human's behavior.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:Give Up by saintlupus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of Slashdot to type "MAC" and not mean it as a borderline-illiterate abbreviation for "Macintosh". Excellent work.

    12. Re:Give Up by jimfrost · · Score: 3, Informative
      Immediately blaming Windows and suggesting a 'nuke it from orbit' option like switching OS's? Rubbish. The problem is in human behavior, not in the operating system.

      Changing their behavior could make their use of Windows safer, but speaking from practical experience every time I have switched a problem user to a Mac (which in some cases I did at my own expense) the support time fell to essentially zero after a short adjustment period. Importantly, this has always happened. Changing the OS fixed the problem without fixing the user.

      Theoretically the Mac (and Linux) can have similar malware problems to Windows, and there is proof-of-concept malware out there. Practically, though, it just isn't the case. I suspect that the security model -- which is much better than even Vista/Win7 when you get into the details -- has a lot to do with that. The claims that it's all about market share are wishful thinking; it's about ease of entry. It's very, very easy to subvert Windows ... and very difficult for Microsoft to fix this because a large amount of software depends on the ability to do things that should really not be allowed (like, say, injecting threads into other programs and using VirtualProtect to make code pages writeable -- with those capabilities you will never make a secure system). As long as it's much easier to subvert Windows there's not much point in going after the Mac.

      But it goes beyond malware. Certain Windows features, such as the Registry, are hideously overcomplex and unreliable. They should have been tossed years ago -- and since everyone manages registry settings via APIs this could be done with excellent backwards compatibility (consider how easy it was for Apple to switch the format for Prefs in Snow Leopard). When something messes up the registry, all too common in my experience, there is little choice but to burn it down and rebuild from scratch. (Thank God for Acronis or I'd go insane from the reinstalls.)

      If you want a system that doesn't require a lot of admin time I have to say that you can pick pretty much anything other than Windows and do well. It will be easier to set up, easier to back up, easier to fix if something goes wrong, and the software will be considerably less expensive (everyone else packages useful software in-the-box).

      Of course, there can be overriding concerns that force the use of Windows ... and you take your lumps if that's the case.

      --
      jim frost
      jimf@frostbytes.com
    13. Re:Give Up by KGBear · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of ... Do you give them your bank account number?"

      An example that's more "real world" to the average user. Regrettably, in the real world, people (especially older folks) do fall prey to scams or otherwise obvious fraud.

      No kidding. I still shudder when I remember what happened years ago to my aunt, who is over 70. I came to her house to visit and found a man in his 30s sitting in the living room drinking coffee. My aunt says "you remember so-and-so, I met him on the way to the grocery store and asked him in. Fancy that, he's now an antiques dealer and may be interested in buying some of my stuff." Well, this was NOT who she thought it was. It was a total stranger who realized she had mistaken him for somebody else and decided to take advantage of the situation. Now my aunt is a retired jeweler and "her stuff", some of which was exposed in the coffee table, consists of unique pieces and precious stones that she kept for sentimental reasons.

      I didn't want to scare her by exposing the impostor, so I asked to have some coffee too. When she left I told the guy I knew what was going on and if he didn't want me to call the cops immediately he would show me his ID and, as soon as aunt was back, make an excuse and leave. Fortunately he was not a violent criminal, just a lowlife who saw an opportunity to scam an old lady. So he left and aunt never figured out what had happened.

      When I read about old people giving thousands of $$ to Nigerian schemers, it reminds me of this story.

  2. MS SteadyState by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Try MS SteadyState

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx

    1. Re:MS SteadyState by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know? It's pretty damned sad that OS stability and security has to be offered as a separate frickin' package to the OS itself.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:MS SteadyState by BESTouff · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. Try Ubuntu.

    3. Re:MS SteadyState by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "You're the shithead that broke it. You fix it, or you pay Best Buy to fix it, or you pay me to fix it. Those are your choices."

      As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.
      I'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:MS SteadyState by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if it was bundled MS would end up being sued by Faronics for abusing their monopoly position, the EU would sanction MS until they removed it, and everyone would complain about how evil MS is for trying to take over another sector of the computer business.

      Of the two options, I like the unbundled, doesn't bloat my OS further, option.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    5. Re:MS SteadyState by snspdaarf · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, the first time I refer to my mother as "shithead" will most likely be the last time I ever do anything.

      --
      Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  3. here's where we get to hear someone spew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    get them all macs

    1. Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew by ColoBikerDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's what I did, and have been stress free for years. :)

    2. Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew by coopaq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Same here. Please mod parent up. Its the damn truth!

      Unsure what all the hating of Apple hardware is on /. lately.
      Solid Unix based OS that your parents would never know about. Google developers use them.
      It's actually not about being hip. It's about getting work done.

    3. Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew by InsaneProcessor · · Score: 5, Funny

      My neighbor did that and now he doesn't have any maintenance issues but he is broke.

      --

      Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
    4. Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew by InlawBiker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped. The biggest benefit has been lack of viruses. Otherwise she didn't care one way or another. For the rest of my family and friends, I just help them. Sometimes it takes me a while to help them, but I fit them in eventually. Why wouldn't I? If I need help fixing my car, borrowing a tool or watching my kids I have people to call. It all comes around.

    5. Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew by Stele · · Score: 4, Funny

      I had to sell my black turtleneck sweater to pay for my Mac. Oh the irony!

  4. Install Ubuntu by HalifaxRage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > no technical background aside from surfing the internet Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.

    --
    bomb the us up set someone
    1. Re:Install Ubuntu by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... and if it has to be Windows for some strange reason. Give them Limited User accounts. You'll be the sole Admin (and you won't use it yourself... just User for day to day tasks) and because of that you'll have to approve or disapprove all software that has to be installed.

      I have this modus operandi with my family and it works very well. Technically, you have to see a family as a small business operation where you are the IT guy.

    2. Re:Install Ubuntu by dargaud · · Score: 5, Interesting

      no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.

      In the same situation, let me relate my story: Over at my parents' for the WE almost a year ago I had yet again to reinstall the whole shebang after a hardware improvement was 'refused' by XP. After a day and a half installing XP, downloading SPs and updates, downloading all apps, configuring them, etc, it crashed during the XP3 install. Wouldn't boot. I had 2 hours left.

      As an experiment and a last minute move, I installed Kubuntu. 10 minutes for the install, 20 minutes to configure custom icons on the desktop links to firefox, kmail, dolphin, Xsane and a SD card image transfer script. I didn't even show them the result, just as an experiment. And I left. They called only once after 2 weeks: "Yeah it works fine, but we don't have skype anymore", which I promptly remotely installed. I consider this experiment a great success.

      On the other hand, in order to escape Linux, my sister bought a Mac.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  5. Related question by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months. Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?

    Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate. Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    1. Re:Related question by jank1887 · · Score: 3, Funny

      after 6 months you may not be looking at it at all.

  6. An interesting resource by RhapsodyGuru · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.howstuffworks.com/virus.htm That should give them an idea. It also includes a video about trojan horses. :)

  7. Correct User Access by jeffy210 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.

    --
    ------
    "And may your days be long upon the earth."
    1. Re:Correct User Access by anom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mod parent up; this is the only way to do this. I give my family a basic user account, and then furthermore go through their registry and then deny all write permissions to the "Run" sections of the registry so nothing can install itself in their user account. If absolutely necessary, give them an admin account to be used only for installing things (I gave it to my little brother and not my mom and this arrangement worked quite well).

    2. Re:Correct User Access by emm-tee · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.

      Absolutely, I did this for my brother's machine, compared to my parents machine it's remained extremely tidy and worry free!

      The only issue is Firefox updating. On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account. (Bugzilla:407875) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..

      Makes me wonder if Internet Explorer would actually be safer for him, at least it would get updated automatically.

    3. Re:Correct User Access by Z34107 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can you give a brief overview of how to remove write access to particular parts of the registry on a per-user (or per-group) basis?

      I'm typing this on Vista Business; XP Home and Vista Home Premium might not have these same features.

      To lock down a part of the registry:

      1. Open the registry editor. (Start -> Run -> Regedt32)
      2. Navigate to the key you want to lock down.
      3. Right-click on it and select permissions. You can set them by user or group the same way you set permissions on folders.

      Group Policy is also a great tool - gpedit.msc is powerful. If you're running a gimped version (XP Home/Vista Home Premium) most of its options can be directly set in the registry with some Googling.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
  8. The butterfly Parable by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An insight into Mentoring & coaching

    One day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared stuck.

    The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon. The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings. The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions. But nothing changed.

    The butterfly stayed the same. It was never able to fly. In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.

    Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind, in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.

    When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.

    1. Re:The butterfly Parable by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative

      It has nothing to do with evolution. Plant tissues that experience pressures (say from bending in the wind) release hormones that make the tissue stronger, to better withstand that pressure.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:The butterfly Parable by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Funny

      So you're saying that the next time Mom asks for tech support, he should bind her up in duct tape, leaving a little hole and saying "fight your way out Mom! It will do you good!"

      While amusing, I don't think that would really solve her or his problems.

      --
      -Styopa
    3. Re:The butterfly Parable by theskipper · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, don't leave us hanging...

      So what happened to the butterfly? Was it like Forest Gump and it went on to meet presidents and stuff?

  9. Re:Buy them a Mac by Dynedain · · Score: 5, Informative

    I completely agree. I did the exact same thing.

    The most beautiful part? When I was convincing them to pick up a Mini to replace their dying PC, my dad's first question was (I kid you not): "But will it run Firefox and OpenOffice?"

    I almost cried.

    And if I do need to give them support? 99% of the time I can just have them fire up iChat and share their desktop with me. Quick and easy for them, and doesn't require messing with opening ports in any firewalls or NATs.

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  10. Only every 8 months? Lucky. by GreatDrok · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing. I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate. Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed. That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person (my wife's 92 year old grandmother) is about to get a Mac mini.

    I can't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account? Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
  11. You can't teach people who don't want to learn by celest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand. It's a hard mental block. I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn". I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials. It's not the information or how it is presented. It's a mental block about learning new things.

    "Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation. And that's that.

    What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important". The irony is lost on them. Completely.

    The war you are facing is a cultural one, not a technical, or information/communication one. It's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot. Best of luck.

    1. Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".

      Proper response: If you can't learn, I can't help. Sorry.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn by Jazz-Masta · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree. My long-time girlfriend is a veterinarian and always makes fun of my career choice when I am "on-call" or have an "emergency."

      Obviously her on-calls, and emergencies deal with life-or-death situation (of animals...) and mine deals with thousands, and possible hundreds of thousands ($$) in lost productivity, revenue, etc.

      Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important. One of our good friends is a doctor and uses the "save lives vs. save useless lives" argument with her...funny actually. The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.

      Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.

      It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.

    3. Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      PROTIP: If your girlfriend ridicules your career/life choice, she's not marriage material.

    4. Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn by JerryLove · · Score: 4, Funny

      Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.

      So how comfortable is that couch?

  12. You have the control, so use it! by donaggie03 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It sounds like you have all the control here, so simply lock down those computers. Install a decent anti-virus, firewall, and script blockers. Install a decent web browser and delete the IE icon on the desktop. Ensure all these and the OS are able to update themselves automatically. Install the programs your family uses. Then create a non-admin account for them and do not give them the admin password. That's what I've been doing and the only problems I've had to deal with in the last few years were a hard drive crash and some minor issues. If they need to install a new program or need the admin password for any reason, they have to go through me to get it done.

    --
    Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
  13. Make them pay by TrippTDF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your post says a lot about your family dynamics... there is a cycle going on here where they use the computer willy-nilly, and then when it gets screwed up, they know that you will fix it for free. What you need to do is make them pay for your services, so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it. That will probably curb their behavior when it comes to installing every toolbar known to man.

    There is probably one major offender, and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried.

  14. The last time I had this problem... by orsty3001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had an old man that had trouble using computers, always getting viruses and what not. I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it. He wouldn't even let it boot all the way up. He saw the splash screen and just turned it off. Next thing I know I got a request to appear in court in the mail and had to defend my actions to a judge that was just as ignorant of computers. I actually lost the law suit but was able to get the court to agree that my punishment was going to be to set the machine back like it was. In my book that's not a loss. It's what I wanted to do from the start if he didn't like it. After that I refuse to do anything for anyone that isn't paying me. No more favors, if any friends, neighbors or family want their computers fixed they can take it to a shop and pay to have it fixed. Something a lot of computer techs need to learn to do. When someone asks of you can fix their problem recite, "I really don't know that much about computers." I say this in the mirror from time to time.

    1. Re:The last time I had this problem... by kylegordon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wait... so, you installed Ubuntu for someone and left them to use it with no discussion. It would appear that you never let him see it boot before handing it over, and never discussed the differences. And, as you say, he refused to use it.

      I assume this level of casual computer fixing is reserved for family members, yet you say he took you to court. If your family are taking you to court, I think you have other things to worry about than the computers. If he wasn't a family member, why the hell were you fixing it for free and/or not discussing/explaining the solution?

  15. Oblig. XKCD by Kadagan+AU · · Score: 5, Informative

    Give them all this

    --
    This space for rent, inquire within.
    1. Re:Oblig. XKCD by metamechanical · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I did this for my younger sister a few days ago, after about 1.5 hrs of trying to diagnose why her laptop's mic wouldn't work with Skype (doing this remotely with someone uncooperative, when you've never used Vista before, is a pain). After I gave up I sent that to her, and explained that it was nearly literally the process I was following (and that I wasn't actually omniscient about computers), she just brushed me off, and told me that it couldn't be true! How are you supposed to get something across to people who not only don't care, but think you're lying??

      --
      If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
  16. Get a Mac by Jaysyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago & have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then. Two of those were upgrading the RAM & two more were upgrading OSX.

    I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up. I had no problems setting it up & she has had no problems using or maintaining it.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:Get a Mac by fahrvergnugen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This. My 60-year-old father can tell the make and model of any car manufactured before the catalytic converter, just by hearing the sound of an engine. As a career veterinarian with 30+ years of experience and an interest in staying abreast, he is intimately familiar with the latest in small animal medicine. But when it comes to anything with transistors, he knows only the basics. He's always found them frustrating and irritating, and only started using email about 6 years ago when forced into it by an extended vacation my mother took alone. He only got a cell phone 2 years ago. I used to spend hours each month helping him maintain his slow-because-he-bought-a-P4-with-SDRAM Windows computer.

      After being fed up with years of parental support, I convinced him with much prodding this past spring that instead of an HP, he should spend a bit more to buy a refurbished aluminum iMac with a full extended warranty and a Time Capsule. I was done with limited Windows profiles, spyware,Firefox with IE skins and changed icons, and all the rest. The Mac was a great decision. He's in love with it, and my Mom is now plotting her own mac purchase.

      I spent the largest part of the two hours of setup copying files via thumb drive, configuring his Safari Top Sites page, and getting Skype turned on so he can talk to my brother in Italy. Haven't really thought about it since, but after years as a reluctant computer user, he's blossomed with the Mac. The iPod he never used to use is suddenly full of podcasts and music, and we'll talk about the Writer's Almanac show a couple of times a week. His digital camera no longer stores all of his photos for viewing on the little screen, and he doesn't go to Walgreen's to get help make prints anymore. - instead, they're in iPhoto with face tags, organized into events, and he uses his own inkjet with photo paper now. He never has to futz with the mic or camera when he's doing a video call with my siblings. He's an avid skier, so we put the snow reports for his season ticket resorts on his Dashboard, as well as the weather reports and clocks for various places around the world where we have family.

      This is turning into a Mac ad, and I didn't mean that. Clearly all of these things can be done with Windows/Linux. My point is that the right combination of technology, in my case an iMac, managed to excite my father into an interest in my own passions, while simultaneously opening up all the really cool parts of the internet to him. And in the process, I no longer have to do any tech support for him. I don't have to worry about backups, I don't have to worry about viruses, I don't have to worry about email attachments, I don't have to worry about "How do I..." phone calls.

      Instead, we have more things to talk about, and he's able to finally use these fantastic tools from which I've made my career. So: if the technology your family is using doesn't work for them, whether they're currently on Apple, Linux, or Microsoft OS's, try a different one. It's made all the difference for me.

      Caveat: I really can't recommend buying a computer without a user-serviceable hard disk unless you also buy the extended warranty. Apple wants $450 to replace the 320GB hard disk on an out-of-warranty iMac with another 320GB. I found out the hard way on my own iMac. To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen. Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over. This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.

      --
      Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
  17. Re:just install linux the next time you reformat by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is what I did for my grandpa. I set it up so that I can SSH into his box wherever I happen to live, which is good for installing updates, software he doesn't have, troubleshooting, etc. I could, in theory, have him do a dist-upgrade too (this is Ubuntu), but I haven't ever tried that via long distance. Whenever I visit, if a new LTS version of Ubuntu is out, I install that on there (preserving his home partition), configure it again, and carry on for the next few years or so.

    --
    SSC
  18. Lock it down by IP_Troll · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Create a limited access user profile for non-tech savvy family members. Lock it down as much as possible. Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.

    Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also, but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member. Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints. If the family doesn't want to learn how to avoid viruses they don't want to learn a new operating system.

  19. The 9-year-old is the key by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like it's time to transition your support job to the next generation.

  20. Lessons learned from too many years in that role by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I've learned a lot of lessons from filling that role for too many years. Here they are:
    • Make a folder for all their base install sources so there is easy access to the source.
    • Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.
    • Make sure they have their cab files on their system.
    • When you rebuild their system seperate out their OS and Data on two seperate drives.
    • Once seperated you can then image their system and have a back of a known good state for that computer. Make sure they also have a backup.
    • Better yet, teach them how to perform their own images.
    • Ensure they one antivirus scanner and another malware scanner - not from the same company.
    • Set up automated downloads and scans.
    • Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.
    • Set up for automatic patches.

    Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for, typically this is well under $100. It's more work up front on this, but teaching them basic safe browsing, automating what they don't want to deal with and have an image (and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run. I've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way, and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer.

  21. Re:Only every 8 months? Lucky. by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    I took a similar route and convinced my father, mother and both my brothers to buy Apple Macs.
    And before anyone starts bleating "but Macs can have problems too..." I'll tell you what I tell my family now when they call me with problems: "So what? I don't support Macs."

  22. Buy a Mac and Time Capsule by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    How much is your time worth, in any unit you care to name? If the answer is any amount greater than zero, then convincing friends and family to buy a Mac helps so, so much... I have several people I used to help all the time, and now I get a question maybe once a year. Not to mention that any frustration you are saving yourself, you are triply saving your friends and family who try to figure things out before they call you.

    But I would add in addition to this advice, to buy a TimeCapsule for them as well. Yes it's a little more expensive than an access point and external disk combined. But refer back to my first point, the bit about time and so on? If they have a TimeCapsule set up they WILL USE IT, because it is on ALL THE TIME. If you try to make anyone connect an external drive they WILL NOT DO IT, and that means WHEN a drive failure occurs you will have to come help try and recover data. If the have a Time Capsule they can bring the system and TC into an Apple store and get the data back even if they can't figure out how themselves (which they probably will figure out).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  23. Re:Reinstall is NEVER required... by Applekid · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you think your only option is to re-install the OS, odds are you don't know how to fix the problem and do it in a timely fashion.

    So, how do YOU deal with a corrupted registry, chains upon chains of hooked and rehooked system calls, apps without proper uninstallers, bad-neighbor applications that overwrite other apps' dlls, and rootkits? Are you really spending the time to one-at-a-time manually uninstall and replace bad associations with known-good ones?

    To me, OS reinstall and repatch is more of a time saving device. Sure, I can spend hours on hours chasing dragons all over the place for hours on end to fix things and keep their precious desktop wallpaper and they could just click that Awesome Cute Videos bookmark and reinstall the same damn malware the very next day. I personally rather set an xml file and leave an unattended install on while catching a movie or otherwise getting on with my life.

    I know if family ever got snippety with me about why I reinstall all the time, I'd probably throw the computer back right at them and wish them good luck.

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  24. It's very sad by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find it sad an disturbing that both the OP, and many of the posters, only want to force the family to do one thing or another so he doesn't have to deal with them anymore.
     
    I spent many hours patiently fixing my dad-in-laws computer when he'd managed, somehow, to mess it up again. Didn't bother me much as it gave me a chance to visit with him and mom.
     
    They're both gone now - and I'd give much to hear the phone ring and Dad say "son, I've managed to mess it up again, why don't you come over and fix it, and then we'll have dinner and catch the ball game".

  25. Get a Mac by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No I'm not trying to be smug. I simply refuse to maintain windows computers. Linux is not an option for most people. Ergo, a mac. Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too. I'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect. But the very problem raised here is solved by a mac. So why fart around. Is your time worth nothing? if not these folks can cough up $599 for a mac mini. You don't have to use a mac, cause you are not the one with the problem. But they do.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  26. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  27. Won't work - ask the Bank of Arnerica by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Read the subject line carefully - "Bank of Arnerica" - it isn't spelled "B a n k [space] o f [space] A m e r i c a" either in the subject or on this line.

    1. Scammers will always find a way.
    2. Older people and crappy monitors don't mix well.
    3. If something "looks" familiar, people see what they expect, not what's really there. Look at how you thought it was "Bank of America."
  28. Screw Linux, give them WoW by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Funny

    My approach, actually, is that if they have time to be surfing for cutesy screensavers on www.i-pwn-u.ru and follow links to www.xploits-r-us.ro and to re-confirm their ebay password 10 times a day, that's the problem: they have time. Forget addressing the symptoms, go for the root problem.

    Me? I gave my parents WoW. Sure, it's just about as hard as giving them Linux, so you have to hit them when they're down. It's for their own good. I got mom when she was too sick to do anything else, and she contaminated dad from there. If that fails, mention that she can talk to you on group chat. It's funny what moms are prepared to do for a son as a captive audience :P

    Fair warning, it takes some time investment. Be prepared to answer questions like, I swear to FSM I'm not making it up, "HOW DO I SWIM UP?? WHAT CAMERA? I DON'T HAVE A CAMERA TO ROTATE!! NO, I LOOKED IN ALL THE BAGS AND I DON'T HAVE A CAMERA!!! WHERE DO I BUY A CAMERA?" or, again, true to FSM quote, "HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS CAVE?? NO, I DON'T SEE YOU! I CAN ONLY SEE THE TOP OF MY HEAD AND MAYBE 3 FT IN FRONT AND TO THE SIDES!!"

    I can see you're dying to ask, "but couldn't I just teach them to use Linux, or heck at least Mozilla in the same time?" Not so fast, grasshopper. This time they'll actually be willing to learn. In the same month you can teach them to play WoW like a pro, or you can be running in circles around "how do I start IE? This paypal password site says I need IE and Javascript" and "why does this taxform.xls.exe attachment not start when I click it???" if you gave them Linux.

    Fast forward about a year, and they don't even have time to sleep. No, really, they're only recently up to 5 hours sleep a night. Surf for cutesy IE toolbars and install crap? Good grief, they don't even have time to shop for groceries outside of wednesday mornings. I think they even lost some weight, what with the occasional wednesday when the servers are back on from 5 AM.

    Ah, life is good.

    'Course, this might cost them a few years off the life expectancy, but it's you or them, really. The hours to support their computers would have probably added up to the same number of years of your own life. Ask yourself this, really: do you want to spend that time supporting them or grinding your own epic gear? Thought so.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  29. Re:And I'm linux! by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Funny

    If they don't want to learn to use linux, tell them to get a mac and be done with it.

    if they don't want to learn linux, why do you think they would want to learn using a mac? (for anyone with years of windows experience ingrained, there IS a learning curve either way)

    I've noticed that humans are illogical, Captain. They won't take the time to learn something that's free and can save them money, but they'll take the time to learn something that they spent money on and will continue to cost them money. Even tribbles act more logically.