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Modern Warfare 2 Not Recalled In Russia After All

Posted by Soulskill on from the it's-the-thought-that-counts dept.

thief21 writes "After claims that console versions Modern Warfare 2 had been recalled in Russia due to complaints from politicians and the gaming public over the infamous airport slaughter scene, it turns out the stories were completely untrue. Activision never released a console version of the game in Russia." Instead, they simply edited the notorious scene out of the PC version. They did this of their own volition, since Russia doesn't have a formal ratings committee.

94 comments

  1. In Post-Soviet Russia... by papapurinii · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...free speech censors itself! Wait, that's not funny. That's horrible. Why would you censor yourself when you don't have to...?

    1. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by sopssa · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because Infinity Ward's nuclear bunker under their development studios didn't finish in time, and it would be pretty stupid to piss off a country with tons of nuclear weapons without one.

      Duh.

    2. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by santax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sometimes common sense wins over free speech. (although I didn't find that level shocking, but rather amusing. Then again, that should be enough for any sane person not to pick up a copy)

    3. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that way you make more money?

    4. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by JAlexoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of people censor themselves. Even though there is no censorship authority, people like to look good in other people's eyes. And there is popular opinion, that is a lot like censorship.

    5. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by V!NCENT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's censorship. But what if a Russian game studio made a kickass game with a scene where the US is pure evil and bad and you take the role of a Russian person to kick the US governments ass?

      Well that would be a bit stupid to release it like that in the US. Allthough I do not think a lot of US citizens would mind kicking the ass of their own government. I know I wouldn't mind kicking mine ^^,

      But it's still kinda wrong...

      --
      Here be signatures
    6. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Romwell · · Score: 1

      So that gamers could download a patch that puts the scene back, and get that good old pirating feeling again!

    7. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      If it was a case of you had to go round planning/executing a terrorist attack i suspect many game companies would not ship in the US for fear of a backlash/boycott (others OTOH would ride the controversy to push their other games, just depends how big your balls are, it turns out activision has little mincey faggot balls)

      note for mods[AlmostSFW]

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    8. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Because you think that what you've done / are about to do would be looked on unfavourably by the demographic you're appealing to?

      I might make jokes about hookers and blow when I'm in the pub with my mates, but more than likely not when I'm talking to my parents. I might make jokes regarding the WTC attacks with those same people, but not if I went to visit the memorial site.

      Some things are just inappropriate, and that inappropriateness comes with context and situation.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      The difference is that they can release the game like that in the US and the game will stay like that. While the developer might cave to pressure (perceived or otherwise) and change it, they will never be forced to change it (unlike many other large industrial nations around the world).

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    10. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Does that mean I can't order Japanese when I'm next time in Pearl Harbor? Or has that been long enough ago?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah because no one drinks hot coffee.

      In Soviet America, government censors YOU!

    12. Re:In Post-Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... which wasn't censored by anyone. GTA3:SA was re-rated by the ESRB, which have no legal standing whatsoever and is entirely voluntary. The government had nothing to do with it.

  2. You're kidding?! by Macthorpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Slashdot posted a story with no basis in fact whatsoever? Slap me, I must be dreaming.

    --
    "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    1. Re:You're kidding?! by sopssa · · Score: 1

      This is what all the newspapers do. They post stories without actual fact checking, one-sided stories and stories based on rumors. If the story happens to be wrong, they put a small 2x2cm box with a small font size on page 193 stating the story was inaccurate.

      Russia is a huge country. How hard it could had been for someone to check the facts before writing about it all over the internet?

    2. Re:You're kidding?! by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it did spark an interesting debate on whether it was Russia beat the Germans or not.

      Flowers can grow on manure...

    3. Re:You're kidding?! by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      You could tell it was bullshit when it didn't feature Jack Thompson challenging Vladimir Putin to a judo match.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    4. Re:You're kidding?! by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it did spark an interesting debate on whether it was Russia beat the Germans or not.

      Wow. Only 13 posts and Godwin's law is already invoked. Perhaps you didn't use the word "Nazi", but you are referring to the time period. Someone was bound to mention it sooner or later. OK, say it was 14 posts (counting mine). Well done.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    5. Re:You're kidding?! by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      No, it's not the same. The focus was on Russia & America, not on Nazi Germany as Goodwin requires.

    6. Re:You're kidding?! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      My guess is that it was more a reference to Germany's rather stingy censorship board concerning "inappropriate" content. To give you an example, to make C&C "appropriate" the human soldiers had to be robots, they can't bleed and the suicide bombers became self propelled rolling tables with a bomb on top. Oh, and Anthrax became some sort of acid that miraculously only hurts the robots but not the tanks.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:You're kidding?! by mea37 · · Score: 1

      I could tell it was fake from some of the words, and having seen a lot of slashdot submissions in my day.

  3. On the other hand... by Baldrake · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course we all shake our heads in wonder that such a fuss would be created in Russia over fiction in a video game. But I wonder how US media would react, say, if a Chinese company released a game featuring US rednecks heading into a first nations reserve and gunning down everyone in sight, including women and children. Just thinkin'...

    1. Re:On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's no wonder at all, just the typical US bias for not caring about violence one bit. You can release a game or movie in the US with the most incredible depiction of violence and no one cares, but show one naked boob and you're damned for all eternity. In Europe (including Russia) it's the other way round. In the end, it just boils down to cultural bias.

    2. Re:On the other hand... by sir_montag · · Score: 1

      if it was a fun, well-made game... Tons of people would buy it. The news might make a fuss, but then even more people would buy it. In fact, if someone made a snuff film simulator... Er.. Wait, they already did.

    3. Re:On the other hand... by papapurinii · · Score: 1

      If it is a social commentary against Americans in general, then yes, we'd be pissed about it. As it stands, though, every country has their share of scumbags. Russia is no different. This could have easily taken place in any other country. But to suggest that this depiction of a Russian national going on a rampage as part of a terrorist cell is somehow racist is a sad commentary on society's unwillingness to accept that someone might further the stereotypes that have been propagated by the nation's troubled past. As it stands, a Russian terrorist is a good plot device because it is a plausible one, BECAUSE the country has had a troubled past. The problem is that many people hate to be reminded of this fact. Of course, that's why censorship was born: We don't like to be reminded of the dark side of human nature.

    4. Re:On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious...

      If Country A receives offensive game A and ban's it, is Country A 'evil/wrong/bad'?

      If Country B receives offensive game A and every distribution outlet chooses to not sell it, is Country B 'evil/wrong/bad'?

      End result is the same. No one could realistically get access to said game. However, Country A is dictating for it's people (perhaps rightfully so through Republic means of representative voting) while Country B is simply sitting back and allowing the people (in this case businesses) decide.

      Is there really much difference?

      What if Country A banned it regardless of the peoples will? That's clearly easier to define. How about if it banned it based on 50% pr 49% of the peoples will?

      Just pondering here...

  4. MW2 and Steam by sopssa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This whole MW2 release on PC has been notoriously shitty. First the removal of dedicated servers and leaning (that still pisses me off so much in multiplayer). The matchmaking system works nicely, but they could had still added.. eh, enabled the support for dedicated servers, since it's already build-in to the engine. Now it also seems that pirates and hackers are running rampant on the legit servers, and they also hacked support for dedicated servers. If you do this with a legit version, you'll probably get banned for cheating.

    And yesterday they removed MW2 from everyones Steam account that had bought the game from different region or sites like g2play.net that sell it cheaper. This happened for me too, so now I'm unable to play my legitly bought game. This is a response from Steam support:

    Your Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 CD Key has been purchased from an unauthorized re-seller of Steam CD Keys. Your CD Key has been revoked. Please do not complete any purchases with this vendor.

    Only CD Keys included with retail copies or purchased from authorized retailers will be allowed.

    Still it's a legit version of the game, just that it comes from a reseller instead of Walmart or Steam. And all Activision, IW and Steam made money on the purchase - only one that lost was me and I cant even play it anymore. It's great when legit, paying customers are treated that way while pirates get more off the game for free and don't risk losing their money and game.

    1. Re:MW2 and Steam by Corbets · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just out of curiosity: how do you know it's a legit copy if you paid a discount price from an unauthorized reseller? Sounds kinda shady to me.

    2. Re:MW2 and Steam by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 1

      That'll teach you for believing in the system! Next time, you'll think twice about being a decent human being!

    3. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you paid something for it does not mean it's legit. If i buy a 50 inch plasma TV out of the back of a van for $50, my payment doesn't make it a 'legit' purchase...

    4. Re:MW2 and Steam by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

      and that is the risk inherent with using centralised services such as Steam. You joined, you accepted their conditions, you can't really start complaining now.

    5. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've been pointing out for a while that Steam is bad, in fact, as was pointed out here by someone else the other day they're arguably worse than EA now that EA is a little looser on DRM than it used to be, effectively making Valve the worst proponents of DRM in the industry.

      What annoys me most about Steam is that you haven't done anything illegal yet they block access, and similarly those who receive games early who have done nothing illegal (and neither have the suppliers because there's no actual legal duty not to release early, just industry agreement) but get blocked access from using a product they've paid for until release day. Then there's the blocking of second hand sales, again, yes, nothing illegal, in fact in some countries it is a legal right, and yet again, Valve block it, even making sale of full accounts with games attached in itself against their EULA so that such accounts will be shut down if they change owner.

      Yet there's still so much support for Steam, they've built an Apple style fanbase that will rabidly defend them no matter how wrong they do, even if to do so means being hypocritical in going against previous stance in other discussions about how bad DRM is.

      It's part of a bigger problem, people will whine, and moan, and bitch, but when it comes to if it means not getting that shiny new toy or having to order that game online and wait a whole day for it to arrive by post, or even, god forbid, get off their arse and go to a shop for it then morals be damned, they'll go right against them and keep feeding the machine that is screwing the consumer and reducing consumer rights drastically. They miss the fact that over time this means things are getting a whole lot more expensive for them if it isn't already due to not being able to buy second hand copies of games, or due to not being able to sale games that they've finished with and never intend to play again on, or most prominently by increased cost of games, which anyone whose paid attention to Steam's prices over the years will notice have gone up for new AAA titles- that doesn't matter as long as they can have their game right this minute. You know what? I actually have more respect for pirates than I do people who whine and buy anyway because at least the pirates aren't feeding companies that don't deserve cash for the way they treat their customers. Sending a message by just pirating the game rather than buying still sends a message, and these companies aren't stupid, they know DRM has no effect on piracy and is just designed to try and slowly increase costs for the honest consumer so it's not like any further restrictions will arise as a result of increase piracy, only as an attempt to squeeze the honest consumer more. I suppose in the context of your distaste of the lack of dedicated servers, this sums up my point precisely:

      http://kotaku.com/5403286/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing

      Personally, I just play XBox 360 games, which unlike on Steam, have decreasing prices, and which despite being on a closed platform are less restrictive in that you can still at least sell second hand and such if you wish to. For what it's worth, I do put my money where my mouth is, I wont buy Left 4 Dead 2 after the way Valve pushes DRM, and the way Left 4 Dead had less content than most free mods with the free content that was meant to make up for this eventually being charged for.

      I don't ask people to agree with my points, I know many loved Left 4 Dead for example, what I do ask is that people grow some will power and learn to start putting their money where their mouth is on what matters to them- don't bitch about DRM on an open platform like the PC if you're going to buy from Steam for example. If you don't, then don't come crying when you realise things are costing you more and more, and when as it has with the parent, it comes round to bite you.

    6. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Read what he posted, the resellers are able to sell it cheaper because they buy keys from a different region of the world where the game is actually priced cheaper than it is in his native country. This is not illegal, as long as you abide by the tax laws in your country importing is perfectly legitimate.

      What Valve don't like is the fact he has bought it cheaper because he worked around their price fixing mechanism that aims to squeeze as much money out of people in different parts of the world as possible.

      Note that this would effect you identically if you for example bought a copy cheaper whilst in Asia on holiday and took it home to play in say the UK or US where it's more expensive.

      They are basically creating their own additional import laws outside of those already imposed by the country into which he is importing goods. It is similar in a way to DVD region encoding, which was used to try and block people in Europe getting films early because they were released 6 months earlier in the US, and also getting them cheaper because the US prices were lower than European prices for example.

    7. Re:MW2 and Steam by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I think I'm missing something. If you didn't buy it from Steam how come it's being removed from your Steam account?

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    8. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 3, Informative

      Many games now, presumably including CoD MW2 on the PC force you to register with and attach the game to Steam to play them. They use Steam for activation to check your CD key is legit, and now it seems, to ban you from using the game. They can also for example use Steam to prevent you from playing a game you've purchased outside of Steam before the release date if it arrives early.

    9. Re:MW2 and Steam by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Oh. Weak.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    10. Re:MW2 and Steam by tepples · · Score: 1

      Personally, I just play XBox 360 games

      What do you do when someone recommends a hot indie PC game to you, but the game isn't ported to Xbox 360 because Microsoft rejected it?

    11. Re:MW2 and Steam by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Little by little, without our even realizing it, we're in the nightmare DRM world. Imagine waking up today after last being conscious in 1995. What, you need to be connected to the network to play games you purchased? What, the operating system limits the number of hardware changes you can make? What, you TV and speakers have DRM built-in? What, operating systems won't load kernel-mode code unless it's been approved by the OS vendor? Our books can be deleted out from under us? That's preposterous. That's fiction.

      No, this was the stuff of dystopian fiction 15 years ago. Now it's daily life. Who knows what restrictions we'll see in the next 15 years? Will you finally stop thinking those of us who decry DRM are just crying wolf?

    12. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 1

      Not play it.

      I know, it's a tough concept for some.

    13. Re:MW2 and Steam by Jiro · · Score: 1

      I don't see why not. You're refusing to play the Steam games because of the DRM. The indy game is probably sold over the developer's website and has at worst a single activation and doesn't prevent you from transferring it to a friend--no worse than the DRM on an Xbox 360 game. Why not play it.

    14. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't have a shortage of games in the first place, that's really key. I really already have access to more games on the 360 that I want to play than I have time to play.

      Importantly though DRM on the 360 is very different to DRM on the PC so it's not a sensible comparison. The 360 is a closed platform and the DRM exists to keep it that way, you can't prevent cheating on an open platform like the PC, but you can on a closed platform. As such I'm happy to play on the 360 and accept it's DRM as part of that closed platform because in turn I get to play on a platform where I don't have to deal with cheating. In contrast, I keep my PC as an open platform where I can do the things I want to do, DRM on the PC inherently means interfering with the operating system or regularly phoning home with arbitrary data about my system under the assumption it wont change, and if it does, causing problems for me reactivating. It is this I object to, the PC is my open platform, I do not appreciate steps to alter that, steps which have side effects that inconvenience me. I am happy to play games like I always used to on the PC, the likes of Quake that never hassled me with activation and which just worked, but any level of DRM on the PC is not acceptable to me.

      All this said, you state the idea of one time activation as being perhaps acceptable to prevent transferring it to a friend, but again what about my right to sell it on second hand when I've finished with it? What if I have to reinstall on different hardware, can I reactivate? Am I going to run into problems where I have to prat about contacting the developer and waiting for them to respond just to be able to play the game I paid for? What about if they go bust or dissapear for some reason, am I never going to be able to activate it ever again?

    15. Re:MW2 and Steam by indiechild · · Score: 1

      Valve did this exact same thing a few years ago with the release of The Orange Box. They banned all the keys sold by resellers such as Zest (a Thai online store). I'm sure they've done the same thing countless other times with other games since then as well.

    16. Re:MW2 and Steam by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Re: Banning my key

      Thank you for your concern. I will take your advice to the heart and not purchase anything anymore with you. BTW, I'm still playing the game. Take a wild guess how I did accomplish this feat. At least it convinced me that I can take a step out of my usual routine

      1) find a game I like
      2) buy the game
      3) download it
      4) play it.

      Again, you may take a wild guess which one I decided to leave out.

      Yours, ...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:MW2 and Steam by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      You know what? I actually have more respect for pirates than I do people who whine and buy anyway because at least the pirates aren't feeding companies that don't deserve cash for the way they treat their customers. Sending a message by just pirating the game rather than buying still sends a message, and these companies aren't stupid, they know DRM has no effect on piracy and is just designed to try and slowly increase costs for the honest consumer so it's not like any further restrictions will arise as a result of increase piracy, only as an attempt to squeeze the honest consumer more.

      How certain are you that these companies aren't stupid? How come I have this feeling that Activision doesn't see the pirates as people who would buy the game if it didn't have draconian measures to prevent it. I'll bet the piracy numbers of the first MW are the reason for the lack of dedicated servers and increased copy protection.

      I fail to see how this is any less an issue of entitlement (at least the people who said they wouldn't buy and did anyway probably weren't that serious in the first place, while the pirates just feel entitled to play the game without paying) or that piracy would make a positive impact. Wouldn't reduced piracy numbers reduce the justification for other companies to add DRM? If Activision sees piracy stay high, won't they just try harder (read: get more draconian) with the DRM next time?

      That said, I think that Steam is not the issue here, but how it's being used. I've never been one to sell my used games, just because they're not worth enough by the time I'm done playing them. It's not worth the $5 to give the game back, when I might play it sometime in the future. Besides, it's worth it to me not to need to worry about lost or scratched disks. And, of course, your argument about games costing more because of Steam just doesn't hold up. Steam has incredible sale prices, comparable to buying used. If you don't want to pay full price, then be patient and you'll get a huge discount eventually on some weekend. MW2 being $60 is entirely an Activision decision, not a Steam decision.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    18. Re:MW2 and Steam by tignet · · Score: 1

      Read what he posted, the resellers are able to sell it cheaper because they buy keys from a different region of the world where the game is actually priced cheaper than it is in his native country. This is not illegal, as long as you abide by the tax laws in your country importing is perfectly legitimate.

      It may not be illegal like killing is illegal, but distributing software between regions is either copyright infringement (unauthorized software distribution) or at minimum an EULA violation. Part of Steam's DRM is policy enforcement. If you hack, your entire steam account may be disabled. If you have a game installed that you shouldn't have (say you have multiple Steam accounts with different games) it won't let you play those games -- even though they're installed.

      What Valve don't like is the fact he has bought it cheaper because he worked around their price fixing mechanism that aims to squeeze as much money out of people in different parts of the world as possible.

      That is exactly it. But realize that different markets have different pricing. Sometimes software may be cheap (or free!) but you could incur nominal per-minute playtime charges. In a different region the software may be $49 and incur no playtime charges. Whether that is for economic, cultural, or legal reasons doesn't matter -- they have no interest in letting you game the system.

      Let's say you are a mechanic. You charge $1,000 to fix things, then offer free, unlimited, lifetime support. Other mechanics, however, offer free parts but charge labor. A crafty consumer may try to get free parts, then switch "regions" and get free labor. Can you see why mechanics might not feel it is your right to do that-- even if you feel that by not letting you do it they are unfairly squeezing as much money out of you as possible?

      Note that this would effect you identically if you for example bought a copy cheaper whilst in Asia on holiday and took it home to play in say the UK or US where it's more expensive.

      Or bought a DVD in Asia and tried to play it somewhere else? It's copyright infringement when you do it for DVDs too.

      They are basically creating their own additional import laws outside of those already imposed by the country into which he is importing goods. It is similar in a way to DVD region encoding, which was used to try and block people in Europe getting films early because they were released 6 months earlier in the US, and also getting them cheaper because the US prices were lower than European prices for example.

      Or how software is cheaper for educational users, even though 1 block away is a corporation needing the same software but has to pay more! Why does the geographical boundary exist? Why can't the corporation buy the educational version at a discount, then use the cheaper software instead?

    19. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny thing, there - people /say/ "oh, they're reselling it from cheaper countries!", but those people shut right up and pretend not to hear when it happens to a game that was never released cheaper anywhere in the world.

      But hey, they're a legitimate reseller! The game was reduced at half price in stolencardland!

    20. Re:MW2 and Steam by pwfffff · · Score: 0

      "What, you need to be connected to the network to play games you purchased?"

      With other people? Uh, yeah. To buy and download the games weeks before they come out so that all I have to do is grab the encryption key on launch day? Of course you need the internet. You make it sound like the internet's the fucking devil. Now, stupid shit like GTA4 requiring you to make an account to SAVE -- yeah, that's bullshit, but it's hardly widespread and not really indicative of a horrid society gone wrong.

      "What, the operating system limits the number of hardware changes you can make?"

      Yeah, make too many hardware changes and your hard drive will self destruct. Or it just tells you to click one button to reactivate. It's one of those horrible things, but I can't remember which. Must be the first with the way you're reacting.

      "What, you TV and speakers have DRM built-in?"

      Not mine. Nice try though.

      "What, operating systems won't load kernel-mode code unless it's been approved by the OS vendor?"

      Really wish I knew what the hell you were talking about, but if the rest of your comment serves as a guide then what you're referring to is probably easily sidestepped, requiring at most a reboot. Oh wait were you talking about cell phones? Or rather that one cell phone? That you can STILL jailbreak? Scary stuff.

      "Our books can be deleted out from under us?"

      If you're dumb enough to keep them on that one device I guess... Most normal people just don't buy shit like that though. You make it sound like government agents are going door to door scanning our hard drives for illegal text.

      "Will you finally stop thinking those of us who decry DRM are just crying wolf?"

      Probably not. Will you ever finally stop pissing your pants every time you see a puppy? Err, 'wolf', sorry.

    21. Re:MW2 and Steam by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Your philosophy is that corporations can do no wrong to consumers. Whenever something bad happens to a customer, it's that customer's fault for being stupid, right?

      And women who get raped are asking for it by wearing skirts, right?

      Blaming the victim is a disgusting and vile barbarism. I reject it.

    22. Re:MW2 and Steam by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      Are you replying to the right comment? What part of "stupid shit like GTA4 requiring you to make an account to SAVE -- yeah, that's bullshit" leads you to believe that I didn't think Rockstar was doing wrong?

      Where did I blame the victim? In what way is someone who buys a locked iPhone instead of a fully open Android phone a victim? Are you telling me that they couldn't have read for themselves which platform would be locked down? Are you saying they couldn't do EXACTLY what I did? Why do you so easily excuse apathy and ignorance?

    23. Re:MW2 and Steam by Draek · · Score: 1

      similarly those who receive games early who have done nothing illegal (and neither have the suppliers because there's no actual legal duty not to release early, just industry agreement) but get blocked access from using a product they've paid for until release day.

      So? blocking authentication servers until release day isn't illegal either, as far as I'm aware. If there's no actual legal duty for them to let you play the game before its release, you have no reason to complain, right?

      Personally, I just play XBox 360 games

      Fuck, just go read your own second paragraph in its entirety. Console games have risen in price dramatically over the years, and if Xbox Live isn't a shoddy excuse for milking their own customers up to their last penny, I don't know what is. But who cares, right? you're still playing MW2, and you're doing so without financing Valve! win for you.

      what I do ask is that people grow some will power and learn to start putting their money where their mouth is on what matters to them- don't bitch about DRM on an open platform like the PC if you're going to buy from Steam for example. If you don't, then don't come crying when you realise things are costing you more and more, and when as it has with the parent, it comes round to bite you.

      The GP got bit by his own attempt at 'gaming' the system for his own gain. Do that on your dearest Xbox and Microsoft will ban you likewise, preventing you from playing *anything* online until you buy a new machine.

      So, put your money where your mouth is, sell your Xbox360 on eBay, and start gaming on Linux exclusively as the PS3 ain't much better either.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    24. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait - you recognise the problem of people ditching their ethical objections to DRM when it suits them but still moaning and whining, and yet are perfectly ok with playing on a closed system because it suits you... and still pointing out the problem in others?

      I think Irony is the only thing in this world that keeps me laughing reliably.

    25. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really. Got an example of a game sold through a key site that wasn't cheaper in another country? No? Funny thing, there. I can assume the facts support my argument and use that to draw premature conclusions, too!

      Games will always be cheaper in another country. We get pricefucked in the UK, and Australia is even worse off. If the games are the same price in Asia, or not released in Asia, then you can still make a profit selling American keys to British and Australian customers. Hopefully this will equalise the market before Steam takes over the entire game industry and starts getting uppity.

    26. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can't prevent cheating on an open platform like the PC, but you can on a closed platform.

      Why are you console people so poorly informed? Many developers actually care about the PC, and are very successful in preventing hacks, through such revolutionary ideas as using dedicated servers and not trusting the client. Developers like Infinity Ward, who actively despise the PC, don't give a shit. And hacks are utterly rampant. It's not about open and closed platforms, it's about how much effort the developer puts in.

      Wasn't there a big thing in Halo or something about how people would reset their router while hosting, which gave them an advantage somehow? And there are the modded controllers, which work because console developers blindly trust their client rather than limiting rate of fire in software.

    27. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 1

      "So? blocking authentication servers until release day isn't illegal either, as far as I'm aware."

      The jury is out in the UK at least, I put in a complaint to trading standards and they certainly see it as enough of an issue to be investigating currently.

      "Console games have risen in price dramatically over the years"

      Wrong. Console games were higher with the release of next gen. systems as they always are because the customer base is smaller, but the average price of an XBox 360 game on release now has dropped from around the £37 mark down to the £32 mark. Many are only £29.99 now where previously they were £34.99, the rest are £34.99 where they were £39.99. CoD MW2 could be picked up for only £26.99 on release night from some supermarkets here in the UK. Console game prices have most certainly not increased in price and are certainly only decreasing.

      "The GP got bit by his own attempt at 'gaming' the system for his own gain. Do that on your dearest Xbox and Microsoft will ban you likewise, preventing you from playing *anything* online until you buy a new machine."

      Wrong again. You're confusing piracy (and potentially cheating) which Microsoft bans for and importing (importing is not gaming the system), the two things are different. Some Xbox games are region free such as CoD MW2, many people in the UK imported this from the US as it was cheaper and there is no problem using an imported title on a UK system whatsoever. Some games are region locked and wont work, but sites like PlayAsia (http://www.play-asia.com/) have a business around imports.

    28. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Why are you console people so poorly informed? Many developers actually care about the PC, and are very successful in preventing hacks, through such revolutionary ideas as using dedicated servers and not trusting the client."

      It's ironic that you should a) call me a console person and b) call me poorly informed. I have far more experience gaming on the PC, and in fact, far more experience developing on the PC. The fact is, apart from these new generations of systems like OnLive that act as thin clients you simply cannot trust the client entirely. You see the issue is this, you always have to send the coordinates of other players to each client even when they are not visible, but are nearly visible, if you do not then the players will pop awkwardly. Most games will send clients out to you that only have one wall between you and them so if they or you turns the corner they are there, rather than being invisible until they pop as the data is received and the player rendered. This means it is always possible to create hacked models, aimbots, wallhacks. Various techniques have been tried through the years to check integrity of the client and it's assets to make sure they have not been manipulated but ultimately it's futile because when the client has full access to modify memory on the system as they want they can always make sure any checks see what they expect to see, and not what the actual values of the likes of CRC checks are. As such the PC platform is inherently vulnerable to cheating which goes back to my point about it not being a suitable system for a cheat free environment.

      So perhaps, before calling someone ill informed, you should learn a little about the subject you profess to know so much about yourself first.

    29. Re:MW2 and Steam by Xest · · Score: 1

      "How certain are you that these companies aren't stupid?"

      Pretty certain. You see it's as simple as this, if they have a developer capable of implementing DRM (even if just a pre-packaged toolkit), then he must also be technical enough to know that it can be worked around with ease, it's certainly possible they're ignoring their developers, but every company that implements DRM, for the last 4 years? It seems unlikely.

      "I'll bet the piracy numbers of the first MW are the reason for the lack of dedicated servers and increased copy protection."

      The reason for no dedicated servers is because this is how it works on XBox live and they just wanted to create an abstraction layer allowing them to maintain the same codebase for all clients. It's so much easier for them if they only have to manage one set of netcode- particularly when the PC is the platform with the lowest sales figures it doesn't make sense to spend a disproportionate amount of development time on it.

      "Wouldn't reduced piracy numbers reduce the justification for other companies to add DRM? If Activision sees piracy stay high, won't they just try harder (read: get more draconian) with the DRM next time?"

      It would be nice, but as we've seen companies get more and more restrictive with DRM regardless of piracy trends of their titles it seems unlikely, also as per my first point that also assumes that DRM is done for piracy reasons rather than to increase income from legitimate buyers.

      "That said, I think that Steam is not the issue here, but how it's being used."

      I certainly agree, a DRM free version of Steam would be excellent. Even Steve Jobs realised this with iTunes in the end and of course music is far more prone to piracy due to such small file sizes yet they're racking up more profits than ever. I've never been one to sell games second hand myself, previously but with a growing catalogue of titles in my games room, space to keep them all is becoming an issue but what's the option for the ones I can't sell because of Steam DRM? Just throw them away? That seems extremely wasteful to me- effectively they're making games consumables which is a disgusting concept, even my DVDs can be sold on and we know how restrictive the movie industry can be!

      "your argument about games costing more because of Steam just doesn't hold up. Steam has incredible sale prices, comparable to buying used. If you don't want to pay full price, then be patient and you'll get a huge discount eventually on some weekend. MW2 being $60 is entirely an Activision decision, not a Steam decision."

      Actually it does, I'm guessing you're from the US by your use of US dollars, those of us outside the US have had first hand evidence of this. You see, Steam used to sell exclusively in US dollars, so when there was $2 US to £1, we got to buy a $30 game for £15- we were getting it for the same price as you in the US so things were fair across the globe. Steam eventually changed that to use local currencies, this means a game on Steam that is $30 now sells for £30, so with a $2 exchange rate (although it's not as $2 at the moment but using that figure to demonstrate) we're paying twice as much as you. This is entirely a Steam decision, they could've kept things in US dollars no problem. I've noticed many new titles are £34.99 on Steam now when they used to be around £24.99 also, so prices are certainly going up and it absolutely is a Steam thing, how do I know? Because something that's £34.99 on Steam can be bought boxed for as little as £22.99 on Amazon. Valve do it because they can, because their market share has grown to a level where they can afford to screw the consumer now without fear of vanishing into the history books, and they're pushing DRM because it has and continues to help them push this agenda.

    30. Re:MW2 and Steam by Draek · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Console games were higher with the release of next gen. systems as they always are because the customer base is smaller, but the average price of an XBox 360 game on release now has dropped from around the £37 mark down to the £32 mark. Many are only £29.99 now where previously they were £34.99, the rest are £34.99 where they were £39.99. CoD MW2 could be picked up for only £26.99 on release night from some supermarkets here in the UK. Console game prices have most certainly not increased in price and are certainly only decreasing.

      In the UK, perhaps. Here in South America, however, console games used to be around US$60 at release and drop to US$30-40 afterwards but now they go for US$70-80 and only drop to US$55-60 after time has passed.

      PC games on the other hand used to be priced around the same as console games, but modern ones cost now US$50 at release, getting as low as $25-30 after a few months.

      Wrong again. You're confusing piracy (and potentially cheating) which Microsoft bans for and importing (importing is not gaming the system), the two things are different. Some Xbox games are region free such as CoD MW2, many people in the UK imported this from the US as it was cheaper and there is no problem using an imported title on a UK system whatsoever. Some games are region locked and wont work, but sites like PlayAsia (http://www.play-asia.com/) have a business around imports.

      It's not just "piracy" or "cheating" but also using it as a media box. You could argue that breaking the protections against it inherently makes the machine vulnerable to "piracy", of course, but then I could argue that it shouldn't be necessary nor punishable by itself. Different ways to 'game' the system and go against the platform-maker's wishes without actually breaking the law, both give similar results.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    31. Re:MW2 and Steam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fallen Earth is one recent game which springs to mind. Turns out the company were getting a lot of complaints from credit card companies about stolen cards.

  5. In Modern Russia... by Sam+Lowry · · Score: 1

    ...there's no censorship.

  6. Re:bunch of gun jumping idiots by papershark · · Score: 1

    What’s the phrase, Lies travel halfway around the world before truth has got its boots on!

    On the surface it looked like a puff piece that always comes along with blockbuster hits.
    Stuff always gets changed for localised markets. Cow death gets deleted for the Indian market (I’m thinking of Mars Attacks) and so on. When it’s a hit it becomes a story. That’s all!

  7. "You must be new here..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You must be new here..."

  8. Kabouter Wesley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For anyone who speaks Dutch: someone should have watched the latest Kabouter Wesley, on the importance of fact-checking.

  9. Self-censorship by DMiax · · Score: 0, Troll

    Self-censorship is still censorship, the difference is that this happens also here in the west, it s hard for us to be righteous on these grounds.

    1. Re:Self-censorship by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Self-censorship is still censorship

      Self-censorship is a basic skill of being civilised. Civilised people don't go around gratuitously insulting others and encouraging hostility without good reason. To equate self-control with government prohibitions on what people are allowed to say or write is, shall we say, ingenuous.

    2. Re:Self-censorship by DMiax · · Score: 1

      It depends on the degree. Self-censonring over political matters for fear of retaliation is not being civilized (it happens here in Italy).

      In this particular case, it looks strange that the game is different in Russia. Either the content belongs to it or not, but this way is hypocritical.

  10. Manipulation by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't it great? Leak a fake story on the internet and reap the free publicity, then leak a statement denying the original fake story, and get another bout of publicity. TWO slashvertisments for no cost at all! Marketing at its finest.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Manipulation by megamerican · · Score: 1

      I thought the same thing when there was "controversy" over the White House in flames mission. It looked like it was a paid advertisement rather than general concern because, well, I couldn't find anyone who cared.

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
  11. Decent? by NeverNow · · Score: 1

    That'll teach you for believing in the system! Next time, you'll think twice about being a dutiful consumer-bot!

    Fixed.

  12. its not censorship by hellfish006 · · Score: 3, Informative

    When they are removing a level from the game that is completely unnecessary to play, should just be a video, serves no real point since you don't have to shoot anyone and the mission still plays out the same. The level and your actions in it have no real effect on the game whatsoever. It was for pure media attention which is ridiculous because this game was already going to be huge.

    1. Re:its not censorship by TheKidWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As opposed to every other level in the highly scripted linear game where your actions don't affect the outcome at all.

    2. Re:its not censorship by hellfish006 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, you are right. But at least in other missions you have to kill the terrorists to proceed, you can't win without killing them. But in the airport level "No Russian" you never have to fire a round, you can walk the entire time, you don't have to shoot any of the cops that show up, the terrorists you are with will do that for you. If you turn and shoot Makarov you can't kill him its friendly fire. If they already knew you were a spy why did they risk having you on this job, why not just kill you, bring your body in the ambulance at the end and drop your body at the scene? Why risk having you screw it up, blow their mission or anything else? Why play this at all? The mission itself doesn't even make sense. Because one American was associated with a terrorist act in a Russian airport they invade the US? And even though one of the Russian terrorists dies in the level no one thinks, oh hey maybe this was a multi-national terrorist attack? The entire level is ridiculous and pointless.

    3. Re:its not censorship by papapurinii · · Score: 1

      "You don't have..." "You don't have..." "You don't have..." You don't have to play the stage. Skip it. "If they already knew you were a spy why did they risk having you on this job, why not just kill you, bring your body in the ambulance at the end and drop your body at the scene?" Because then they'd have to drag your body through the terminal and past all those SWAT. The logistics are a tad impractical. Additionally, it doesn't matter if the attack was multi-national. An American soldier's body was found. The American soldier was on active duty, and was serving under the auspices of the US military. This is cause for declaration of war regardless of whether it was a multi-national effort.

    4. Re:its not censorship by hellfish006 · · Score: 1

      Have you played the game yet? An ambulance shows up at the end that you all jump into. Just pull the American's body out of that and drop it at the scene. You are also in street clothes playing a covert agent. There is no way to prove the person was an American soldier from the remains alone.

    5. Re:its not censorship by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If they already knew you were a spy why did they risk having you on this job, why not just kill you, bring your body in the ambulance at the end and drop your body at the scene?

      Because airports usually have lots of security cameras in them, and the whole point was to film the guy killing civilians alongside other terrorists, who is later found out to be an American secret agent. It's also why they only kill you at the very end (where there are no cameras), so that it can reasonably be written off to police fire.

    6. Re:its not censorship by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      They also have video cameras at the airport, so you can't just pull the person's body from the ambulance...

  13. Political correctness by Dr.Syshalt · · Score: 1

    Why would you censor yourself when you don't have to...?

    I don't get it myself. But sure, a "political correctness" is something that is specific for Soviet Russia only...

  14. There's a difference between censorship... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and taste. You fucking cunts.

    (Ha ha, the captcha word I got was "repress")

  15. Indie games by tepples · · Score: 1

    you can't prevent cheating on an open platform like the PC, but you can on a closed platform.

    To me, it's not that consoles are closed against cheaters as much as that they're closed against legitimate developers that happen to be small businesses.[1] What would you suggest that an indie studio working on a PC game do to reach a market of people like you?

    DRM on the PC inherently means interfering with the operating system or regularly phoning home with arbitrary data about my system under the assumption it wont change

    Games from smaller developers tend to have fewer if any digital restrictions management hassles. They rarely if ever have SecuROM bullcrap, for one. Would you consider buying an PC game with no DRM, or would you reject it just because it's for the PC?

    All this said, you state the idea of one time activation as being perhaps acceptable to prevent transferring it to a friend, but again what about my right to sell it on second hand when I've finished with it?

    You say this as if consoles were different in this respect. Can you resell an Xbox Live Marketplace download when you're done with it?

    What about if they go bust or dissapear for some reason, am I never going to be able to activate it ever again?

    You say this as if consoles were different in this respect. Several times, I've bought a PS2 game from the store, unwrapped the shrink wrap, put the disc in the console, turned it on, and tried to go online only to see that the matchmaking server had already been shut down permanently: "DNAS Error (-103) This software title is not in service."

    [1] XNA on Xbox 360 is an improvement over the policies of Nintendo and Sony, but it still has severe limitations, a big one being no way to play audio synthesized at runtime.

    1. Re:Indie games by Xest · · Score: 1

      "To me, it's not that consoles are closed against cheaters as much as that they're closed against legitimate developers that happen to be small businesses.[1] What would you suggest that an indie studio working on a PC game do to reach a market of people like you?"

      This problem has long been solved by XNA. Alternatively, publishing deals are also an option, plenty of XBox live arcade games are by small developers. You do lose the second hand sales option with Live Arcade much like DRM'd Steam games and such, personally whilst this is annoying this is the lowest on my list of concerns with DRM - loss of ability to activate a game is probably top. There's really no barrier to anyone publishing on the 360 other than the XNA subscription costs which are pocket money for anyone releasing a commercial game - £65 for a year, can't remember but even less for 3 months which is all you need to publish. You mention audio synthesized at run time being a problem, but I'm not sure how many titles this would really effect, but there is still the full Live Arcade route, you can develop your game with something like Torque at www.garagegames.com and aim for publish with them as they have experience of moving games from their engine to the 360 or put a tender direct to Microsoft.

      "Games from smaller developers tend to have fewer if any digital restrictions management hassles. They rarely if ever have SecuROM bullcrap, for one. Would you consider buying an PC game with no DRM, or would you reject it just because it's for the PC?"

      I'm not anti-PC, I've gamed for years on the PC, since 1990 in fact. I've been playing online since around 95, and was playing PC still exclusively until 2006 when I got my XBox. I still buy the odd PC game, but DRM free has become absolutely essential for me to buy a PC game nowadays.

      "You say this as if consoles were different in this respect. Can you resell an Xbox Live Marketplace download when you're done with it?"

      No, I agree this is a problem with arcade games. You can resell boxed retail titles though which is the main issue- being able to resell a £30 game is a bigger deal than being able to resell a £3 game. With games that require Steam activation even if they're boxed retail you can't resell them because you're limited to tying one key to your Steam account.

      "You say this as if consoles were different in this respect. Several times, I've bought a PS2 game from the store, unwrapped the shrink wrap, put the disc in the console, turned it on, and tried to go online only to see that the matchmaking server had already been shut down permanently: "DNAS Error (-103) This software title is not in service.""

      This is certainly a problem with online games, but the point is activation effects offline games as well. If matchmaking servers go down for a game with single player and multiplayer then no activation means you can at very least still play the single player game. I'm not sure what Microsoft's policy is on matchmaking servers, but certainly I'm concerned about EA games like Mercenairies 2 which make you authenticate with EA's servers over XBox live, particularly with the news about Pandemic- will the Mercs 2 authentication servers go down so I can't play coop anymore? If this is the case then personally I'm willing to take this up with trading standards and go to court as the box explicitly states 2 player coop is supported. I will again also put my money where my mouth is and no longer buy EA's games, not that I can think of many EA games I've bought recently anyway- Ubisoft and Activision seem to be releasing more, better titles.

    2. Re:Indie games by tepples · · Score: 1

      This problem has long been solved by XNA.

      Microsoft doesn't allow any text in an XNA game unless it's in one of the languages for which the Xbox 360 system menu has been localized. So if one makes a fantasy themed game for XNA, and it includes text in an elvish language, FAILED.

      You mention audio synthesized at run time being a problem, but I'm not sure how many titles this would really effect

      Without synthesis support, dialogue in a game must be pre-recorded, not marked-up-text-to-speech.

      If matchmaking servers go down for a game with single player and multiplayer then no activation means you can at very least still play the single player game.

      One question: Why do PC games (with few exceptions) require a separate PC and monitor per player, while console multiplayer games are more likely to either A. support split screen or B. have a game design like that of Bomberman that doesn't need a split screen? Is there a market for console-style games with minimal if any DRM for home theater PCs?

      the box explicitly states 2 player coop is supported

      Are you sure? I looked at the back of a Disney movie's box today at Best Buy, and the fine print about "DisneyFile" (SD version encoded for handheld players) stated that the file must be activated before a given date. Likewise, a console game publisher might promise to run multiplayer for only the first 12 months after first publication.

    3. Re:Indie games by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft doesn't allow any text in an XNA game unless it's in one of the languages for which the Xbox 360 system menu has been localized. So if one makes a fantasy themed game for XNA, and it includes text in an elvish language, FAILED."

      Got a source for this? There are plenty of XBox games with fantasy languages in already.

      "Without synthesis support, dialogue in a game must be pre-recorded, not marked-up-text-to-speech."

      See previous comments about producing a native game rather than XNA based game which is a perfectly feasible option.

      "One question: Why do PC games (with few exceptions) require a separate PC and monitor per player, while console multiplayer games are more likely to either A. support split screen or B. have a game design like that of Bomberman that doesn't need a split screen? Is there a market for console-style games with minimal if any DRM for home theater PCs?"

      How many home theatre PCs are there out there vs. consoles? How many would be used for gaming rather than PVRs or similar? What about the likes of MythTV that has support for console emulators via MythGame?

      "Are you sure? I looked at the back of a Disney movie's box today at Best Buy, and the fine print about "DisneyFile" (SD version encoded for handheld players) stated that the file must be activated before a given date. Likewise, a console game publisher might promise to run multiplayer for only the first 12 months after first publication."

      Just checked and yep, it explicitly states 2 player coop with no pre-conditions.

  16. Trout Slap by cromar · · Score: 1

    /me slaps Macthorpe around a bit with a large trout!

  17. Too bad for color blind folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Team based multiplayer is impossbile to play if you're re/green color blind like me. Can't tell teammates from enemies. Be nice to be able to change the solor schemes like on WaW.

  18. Censorship by amazingxkcd · · Score: 1

    The fact that the Russian Government did not recall the game means either two things. One, the game was already too popular and was bought out, or two, the Russian government examined the game and the storyline and reconized that the airport mission is not just portraying Russians as bad, just Russian terrorists who wants to start WWIII. This can relate to the movie & book, THE SUM OF ALL FEARS, where practicelly the same idea happened with trying to start WWIII. Knowing that its just terrorists and not real Russians, I believe it is safe for the govt to not recall and a good notion at that too

  19. Source for XNA unsupported languages by tepples · · Score: 1

    So if one makes a fantasy themed game for XNA, and it includes text in an elvish language, FAILED.

    Got a source for this? There are plenty of XBox games with fantasy languages in already.

    I'm going based on this page. In case the page is not available where you live, allow me to quote: "If your game includes - in any form - characters, symbols, or words from unsupported languages it WILL be FAILED." Perhaps all the games for Xbox 360 including text in a fantasy language are native games published by a big company.

    See previous comments about producing a native game rather than XNA based game which is a perfectly feasible option.

    Does Garage Games have a monopoly in publishing small developers' games that are unsuitable for XNA? If I get turned down, should I consider protesting by marketing the PC version as "the game Microsoft doesn't want you to play"? I'm trying to build a business plan here, and if getting started in video game development requires first quitting my day job and moving hundreds of miles away from everyone I know, I want to be sure that I'll at least have some income before jumping in head-first.

    How many [HTPCs] would be used for gaming rather than PVRs or similar?

    Conversely, how many PLAYSTATION®3 game consoles were purchased just for watching BD movies? I consider HTPC to be the foot in the door to the PC with Windows being the fourth console.

    What about the likes of MythTV that has support for console emulators via MythGame?

    ROM sites are illegal. Native HTPC games aren't, and publishers of HTPC games can market them accordingly.

    1. Re:Source for XNA unsupported languages by Xest · · Score: 1

      "I'm going based on this page. In case the page is not available where you live, allow me to quote: "If your game includes - in any form - characters, symbols, or words from unsupported languages it WILL be FAILED." Perhaps all the games for Xbox 360 including text in a fantasy language are native games published by a big company."

      This doesn't seem to include fantasy languages though- you're assuming fantasy languages will be classed as unsupported. It's probably related to character sets more than anything such that the XBox may not support certain character sets. Many Live Arcade titles are not developed by large companies. Have there been any cases of a game with a fantasy language in being rejected on that basis is the real question? Judging by the release on Live Arcade and community games the answer would seem to be no.

      "Does Garage Games have a monopoly in publishing small developers' games that are unsuitable for XNA?"

      Nope. It's just a good option and one that I'm familiar with.

      "If I get turned down, should I consider protesting by marketing the PC version as "the game Microsoft doesn't want you to play"?"

      Not really, if it gets turned down it's likely because it's crap or simply innappropriate (i.e. extremely graphic content). There's some games on Live Arcade of questionable quality created by small developers as is, so the bar isn't exactly high.

      "I'm trying to build a business plan here, and if getting started in video game development requires first quitting my day job and moving hundreds of miles away from everyone I know, I want to be sure that I'll at least have some income before jumping in head-first."

      It doesn't. Most indie developers develop alongside a day job, and I see no reason why you'd need to move. The biggest problem is finding artists, you'll likely have to contract this out. If your releases do well you may have the option of quitting your day job, but it's never a smart idea to quit your day job for something you can't guarantee you'll be successful with, particularly when it's something you can do alongside your day job to get started with.

    2. Re:Source for XNA unsupported languages by tepples · · Score: 1

      you're assuming fantasy languages will be classed as unsupported.

      I'm making this assumption based on another passsage from the same page that I linked and quoted earlier: "Xbox LIVE Indie Games are approved in the following languages: English, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, and German."

      Most indie developers develop alongside a day job

      Developing for any console-style platform other than HTPC and XNA does require quitting your day job. Before XNA existed, how did console developers get started?

    3. Re:Source for XNA unsupported languages by Xest · · Score: 1

      "I'm making this assumption based on another passsage from the same page that I linked and quoted earlier: "Xbox LIVE Indie Games are approved in the following languages: English, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, and German.""

      Yes, but it's not as if you're going to use your fantasy language for the entire game is it? It's just part of your storyline, your menu system and so forth will still need to be in a language players can understand else rejection is quite correct- a game for which no one can understand is useless and stupid. There's still nothing to say you can't use a fantasy language as partr of the story line, if you really believe otherwise e-mail the XNA/Community games team and see what they say- I know full well the answer will be that it's no problem.

      "Developing for any console-style platform other than HTPC and XNA does require quitting your day job. Before XNA existed, how did console developers get started?"

      No, it really doesn't. You seem to be thinking you're going to be building AAA games from the start, do you really have a multi-million dollar budget and a team of developers just hanging around?

      Before XNA was around they did what they do with XNA anyway- build games for an open platform like the PC and then put a tender forward to the console company for a port and if the game is any good they would allow a port.

    4. Re:Source for XNA unsupported languages by tepples · · Score: 1

      You seem to be thinking you're going to be building AAA games from the start

      Does a video game have to be AAA in order to 1. be designed around the use of four gamepads and one large monitor and 2. sell?

    5. Re:Source for XNA unsupported languages by Xest · · Score: 1

      No, it should be AAA if you think you need to quit your day job to make it.