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Xbox Live Class Action Being Investigated
eldavojohn writes "Were you negatively affected by the recent ban on Xbox Live for modifying hardware you own? Did you modify yours for homebrew or altering things you paid for and not to engage in piracy? Abington IP would like to hear from you and may be able to help. From that page: 'If you are an Xbox Live subscriber, had your modified Xbox console banned from Xbox Live, were not refunded a prorated sum for the time left on your subscription, or have experienced other problems as a result of being banned, and would like to participate in a class action against Microsoft, please submit your information below.' Someone is finally standing up for the legitimate hobbyists. Should Microsoft worry?"
The DVD drive mods that people got banned for were all about playing 'backups' which really means pirated games in 99% of these cases.
Hell, I know people who had their consoles banned for no reason and MS told them to go take a leap.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
The terms of use seem pretty clear:
The Service may only be accessed with an original Xbox, an Xbox 360 console, a personal computer, or other device authorized by us, or by logging into your account via Xbox.com . You agree that you are using only authorized software and hardware to access the Service, that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., through unauthorized repairs, unauthorized upgrades, or unauthorized downloads
Refund Policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or in connection with any particular Service offer, all charges are non-refundable and the costs of any returns will be at your expense. There are, however, certain circumstances under which you may be entitled to a refund for certain Services.
So what part of that seems unclear enough that it warrants a lawsuit? If you don't agree with terms of use, don't sign up for the service then whine when they catch you violating the terms of service and terminate your account.
I think the problem that is being raised is that MS agreed to allow the users to use the servers for a set amount of time and cost. MS terminated that agreement without reimbursing some of the users for the time they already paid for. While they do have the right to control who has access, the lawsuit is saying that MS does not have the right to end their paid agreement early without returning the money they accepted.
I didn't read the article and I'm not a lawyer, but I do pretend sometimes.
I've been reading the argument that people have just been banned from XBL, because modifying your console somehow violates the TOS of XBL.
However, this time the ban does not just kick you off online multiplayer, it also disables functionality to install games on the included HDD! Games already installed on that HDD will not be accessible anymore. Also, any savegame you continue playing with on the banned console will get tagged with the result that you can't copy it to any other (banned or unbanned) consoles anymore.
Since a lot of people bought the Xbox360 with the ability to install games on the internal HDD right out of the box it can be argued that MS impaired the users' hardware in some way.
Also: it is rumored that it is possible for MS to band your console through future (mandatory) updates on game discs, even if you never played online. The technical capabilites are there, but if they ever start doing that their XBL-TOS-argument will be seriously flawed.
and $5 more in my pocket for shooting off an email or signing a paper is fine by me, even if someone else thinks maybe I'm entitled to $50.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
No, they haven't terminated any agreement. The accounts are still live and valid, and if the modders want to log in from an unmodded console they're still welcome. Remember: it's the CONSOLE that's banned, not the user.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Microsoft has done much more than prevent access to the service. These are other features that have been blocked:
* Cannot install games to the HDD
* Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender
* Cannot access netflix rentals
* Cannot download game updates and extra content that are used in offline play
Yes, Microsoft basically "bricked" several offline features of the console. The lawsuit has nothing to do with access to the XBL service and everything to do with the additional removal of features totally unrelated to xbox live.
The data on the HDD is now tainted, as a lot of what modders do is around cheating achivements by trading hacked save games, this seems reasonable to me.
And gamerscore has nothing to do with the data on the drive - I could wipe out all my saves tonight and I'd still have all my earned achievements and gamerscore - they're stored on the XBL servers.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Incorrect. Your Xbox live account works just fine, it just does not work on that specific console anymore. If you go buy a new console, your live account will log right back in all hunky-dory.
I said that the gamerscore earned "since the ban" is lost. Your gamerscore/gamertag is now frozen at the point of your last Live connection prior to the ban. You can't officially earn any more points until you recover on a legit console. Anything that you do on your banned console is now stuck on your banned console.
Not that this is the end of the world, but it is to some people. If you earn 5,000 GS points since being banned the only way to show it off is to bring your buddies to your house and show them on your banned console. If you try to recover your gamertag from the banned console it will appear corrupt and you'll have to revert to the one saved on Live prior to your ban.
It's in the TOS.
No refunds when you get banned.
It's legal.
Your argument would only be valid if they could still use the xbox for everything else except connecting to the MS network, they can not.
Where did you get that idea?
It is not correct.
You can use your banned xbox for everything you used it for before, EXCEPT for connecting to xbox live.
>>>They booted you off THEIR NETWORK.
And failed to refund upto 2 years of Xbox Live subscription, or refund dollars for games that no longer work without the online connection.
As a clarification, they did not boot you off of Live, they booted the console off of Live. You still have a subscription, your modified hardware just can't use it. Your subscription will still work on a legitimate device.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
No, but I'm pretty sure there's a legal right to modify your hardware as you see fit...
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Even consoles that have been patched by disks only (no connection to live EVER) can use these features as long as theyre not banned.
It's worth noting that the features that were revoked *ARE* connected to the Live service. You need a Live connection to install a game to the hard drive, to use the media extender, or to check your Netflix queue. If you don't believe me, please unplug your xbox from your network and try to use these features. They haven't removed any functionality from your console that you had when your ethernet cable was unplugged. Whether or not those features should be gated on being connected to Xbox Live is a totally different discussion. However, after the 'loss of these unrelated features' argument has been dissolved, the overall case is sincerely weakened. Corrupted save games are a valid concern, as are unrefunded subscriptions (though it's possible that TOU handle the latter with ease).
Actually, none of them do.
* Cannot install games to the HDD -- would these be games downloaded from XBL? That require authentication? ... ...
* Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender
* Cannot access netflix rentals -- requires authenitcation with XBL
* Cannot download game updates and extra content that are used in offline play -- requires authentication to XBL
Who are the morons that modded you informative? Your "point" has a minimum of a 75% FAIL rating.
Have you tried running the games installed on your harddrive? I am sure that when you do, it will fail and you will be required to run it from the disc, and be unable to install it to the hdd.
That is scary, xbox-scene is usually a very reputable and trustworthy source.
I have indeed run games installed and they work (The ones installed from a game disc)
The only games on HD that did not run were downloaded from XBL. That type of game not working is more-or-less to be expected.
However there are also exceptions to that rule. Games you download from XBL that are offline playable STILL WORK.
One xbox we were playing on two nights ago, which is banned from XBL, has a copy of Zombie Apocalypse downloaded to the hard drive. (Awesome game BTW!)
The game still plays just fine. I can't upload top scores anymore to XBL, but that is because it is banned from XBL. I also can't upgrade it with new levels from XBL, but again due to being banned from XBL.
The game itself plays just fine from the HD, and was an XBL downloadable content game.
Also I think there is a miscommunication on the media center thing.
I know you can still run media center, can still play local videos, as well as stream from a PC. However that article states as much.
They say specifically 'media center extender' which I assumed meant the software you install in XP to stream (since vista and win7 come with it), which I know does work.
If there is some other 'extender' product I am unaware of, they could be correct. But it is not related to streaming video and music from other network sources (Or if it does, then it is a pointless add-on and no loss.. just do it the normal library/network path way)
Other than those two things however, everything else they state is disabled is all totally xbox live related.
Of course you cant download from xbox live to get updates, you are banned from xbox live.
Of course you can't download netflix from xbox live, you are banned from xbox live.
Of course the achievements you get between last connecting and getting banned are lost. You can't connect to xbox live to upload them because you are banned.