Inkscape 0.47 Released

derrida writes "After over a year of intensive development and refactoring, Inkscape 0.47 is out. This version of the SVG-based vector graphics editor brings improved performance and tons of new features, including: timed autosave, Spiro splines, auto-smooth nodes, Eraser tool, new modes in Tweak tool, snapping options toolbar & greater snapping abilities, new live path effects (including Envelope), over 200 preset SVG filters, new Cairo-based PS and EPS export, spell checker, many new extensions, optimized SVG code options, and much more. Additionally, it would be wrong to not mention the hundreds of bug fixes. Check out the full release notes for more information about what has changed, enjoy the screenshots, or just jump right to downloading your package for Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X." We've been following the progress of Inkscape for years (2006, 2005, 2004).

Comments

Great

[AniVisual]

I hope they solved the problem where it snapped to the panel and the edge of the screen alternately when you maximized it in Gnome with a resolution of 1024x768.

Re:Great

[TangoMargarine]

Only at 1024x768?

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

Dunno, but what they didn't fix was the incorrect naming of save/export.

They seem to think save is anything that outputs a vector format, and export is anything that outputs a bitmap, rather than the normal definition of save being anything you can re-open with zero loss of data, and export being things you might lose data (possibly all of it) if you try to re-import.

I lost a *lot* of time when I "saved" a load of files as pdfs, and then got told inkscape couldn't reopen them.

Re:Great

[MichaelSmith]

You seriously expected to go back from pdf to svg? My wife exports from revit to pdf and she doesn't expect the process to work in reverse.

Re:Great

[AleBaba]

As someone who works with Linux-systems a lot I implicitly know that saving to pdf means you won't be able to edit it later. BUT, I call that process exporting. If they really wanted to make a difference between "export to bitmap" and "export to some other format" they should call it "render to bitmap" because that's what it does (IMHO you can't "export" an svg to png).

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

1) yes, illustrator works just fine reading/writing pdf as it's save format
2) yes, anything in the list of formats under "save" should allow me to open again... if it won't, it should be under "export" not "save".

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

As someone who works with Illustrator a fair amount, I implicitly know that pdfs can be reopened and worked on just fine without losing any data at all. I call this function save.

Inkscape does not have this feature, and thus should put pdf export in the export section, not the save section.

Re:Great

[AleBaba]

You did not really read my response, did you?

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

I did, I was just pointing out that there's no implicit reason why you can't re-open a pdf. Illustrator does this just fine.

Re:Great

[BitZtream]

I do it all the time. They are both standardized vector formats. We get PDFs from customers for various bits of artwork that we need to convert to SVG to use with our software.

Re:Great

[X0563511]

The difference is that illustrator is also made by the same people who make* PDFs.

* Dur, the people who make Adobe Acrobat can probably handle editing/extracting-from PDFs.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

Except that pdf is an open format that's actually remarkably simple to parse.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

Sorry to reply to myself, but let me add... especially when you wrote it out yourself, and can guarantee the structure of the elements in it.

Re:Great

[MountainMan101]

I just tried it. Inkscape imported the PDF I made in it. It contained text, vectors and bitmaps and it loaded them fine. Perhaps you should file a bug for your particular case. Or are you just a freeloader - using open source software without contributing any effort, even as far as bug reporting.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

I just tried it too, it still didn't succeed in correctly importing the files (close, but no cigar).

Note the word there though – import, not open. It imports and exports pdfs (possibly with data loss), it does not save and open them (which it claims to).

Yes I filed a bug report, a long time ago, and yes, I contribute to Open Source projects.

Re:Great

[theolein]

That is because Illustrator's native format is pdf. Honestly, mate, I own and use Illustrator and it is NOT the case that illustrator doesn't have gotchas or strange UI decisions.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

1) Illustrator's native format is .ai
2) Even if it was pdf, it does not change either the fact that it's quite possible to encapsulate all this information in a pdf, or that when you select save, it saves your data... all of it, this is not true in Inkscape.

I'm not denying that illustrator has weird UI issues, but at least when you select save, it *does*. Save is one of the most critical features of any application, and to have a save option which... does not is *awful*.

Re:Great

[Yoozer]

As someone who works with Illustrator a fair amount, I implicitly know that pdfs can be reopened and worked on just fine without losing any data at all. I call this function save.

Then you should also know that it specifically asks you when saving as PDF if you want to "Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities", implying a loss of data. It's probably safe to assume that it expands/flattens the results of filters, but still.

Re:Great

[Abreu]

If it's "remarkably simple to parse" then why it is so hard to find a non-Adobe application that can easily edit pdf files?

Re:Great

[Stewie241]

And why is the spec almost 700 pages, and why does everybody I know who has tried to work with it cursed it up and down?

Re:Great

[harmonise]

That is because Illustrator's native format is pdf. Honestly, mate, I own and use Illustrator and it is NOT the case that illustrator doesn't have gotchas or strange UI decisions.

You obviously don't use Illustrator or you'd know that Illustrator uses it's own format with a .ai extension, not PDF, for saving files.

Re:Great

[VisceralLogic]

That is because Illustrator's native format is pdf. Honestly, mate, I own and use Illustrator and it is NOT the case that illustrator doesn't have gotchas or strange UI decisions.

You obviously don't use Illustrator or you'd know that Illustrator uses it's own format with a .ai extension, not PDF, for saving files.

I don't know how it is now, but a few years back when I was designing a poster in college, I used Illustrator, saved in .ai, changed the extension to .pdf, and it opened just fine in a PDF viewer.

Re:Great

[EvilBudMan]

--I lost a *lot* of time when I "saved" a load of files as pdfs, and then got told inkscape couldn't reopen them.--

I got to keep the vectors in the past, Even PhotoShop wouldn't let you do this. It just converts it all to bitmap. Now you may have to use the open PDF stuff instead of the newer 3d PDF's but I can get vectors no other way unless I want to buy Illustrator. Sometimes you can do neat stuff with Ghostscrirpt too, but I can't complain.

So I don't know about NOT loosing everything when I try to go from PDF to desktop cutting plotter R13 dxf's which is an odd way to name things but it works for me when I really need those vectors for a CAD program. So that's odd indeed. Might be a bug.

Re:Great

[ultranova]

I did, I was just pointing out that there's no implicit reason why you can't re-open a pdf. Illustrator does this just fine.

SVG has features that PDF doesn't, such as filters. Consequently, for some SVG files, exporting as PDF loses information.

Re:Great

[ScislaC]

.ai files are really just PDF with special editing info stored in the file, it's no different than saving as PDF while retaining the editing bits (an option, yes I paraphrased, when saving as PDF from Illustrator).

Re:Great

[ScislaC]

You obviously don't know much about Illustrator files. ;) Illustrator files are PDF based, if you save as PDF while retaining the editing capabilities it is no different.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

Because pdf has a reputation for being incredibly closed and difficult to work with, as it was originally. Go read the spec, and you'll discover it's *very* simple, and *very* well documented.

Re:Great

[beelsebob]

Consequently, PDF should be in the export options, not the save options.

Re:Great

[DaVince21]

Illustrator and PDF are both technologies made by Adobe. They can easily decide to save extra data in the PDFs to import them back into Illustrator with no problems if they wish so.

Of course, InkScape could do similar things to the PDF, but it kind of seems like a lost effort as PDF would usually indicate final/production/release version.

Err...

[Anonymous Coward]

It can made FLA or SWF?

Re:Err...

[X0563511]

No, and unfortunately it cannot made you learn the difference in tense between "make" and "made"

Re:Err...

[Neil Hodges]

I think GP meant "How do I made FLA or SWF?" Granted, that's no better, but at least it's a meme.

Re:Err...

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

It can made FLA or SWF?

No, and unfortunately it cannot made you learn the difference in tense between "make" and "made"

Alas, it has begun. The lolcatters have arrived.

He can has cheeseburger.

I can made for the hills.

A "must-have" package

[AliasMarlowe]

Inkscape is installed on all of our Linux PCs at home, and on the Windows PCs and VMs at work. It is one of the "must-have" applications for graphics. We all use it at home, adults & kids.

Re:A "must-have" package

[X0563511]

I hope they solved the problem where it snapped to the panel and the edge of the screen alternately when you maximized it in Gnome with a resolution of 1024x768.

Inkscape is installed on all of our Linux PCs at home, and on the Windows PCs and VMs at work. It is one of the "must-have" applications for graphics. We all use it at home, adults & kids.

I love how you replied to someone yet said nothing related to the parent at all.

Re:A "must-have" package

[AliasMarlowe]

I love how you replied to someone yet said nothing related to the parent at all.

Why, thank you for the compliment! And I thought I was new here...

Re:A "must-have" package

[LordVader717]

It's called karma-whoring.

Re:A "must-have" package

[Anonymous Coward]

As opposed to just plain old whoring?

Re:A "must-have" package

[billsayswow]

Curse you, Marlowe. I was going to say that and get the promotional payment and swag instead of you. Just kidding, I agree. It is a pretty splendid program, for serious work or simple play.

Re:A "must-have" package

[buchner.johannes]

I think attaching something unrelated to put your opinion up is actually called thread-hijacking ...

oh now I see what you did there ;-)

Re:A "must-have" package

[mspohr]

The parent was a troll and didn't deserve a response.

Re:A "must-have" package

[ultranova]

It's called karma-whoring.

I find your jump to a conclusion with insufficient evidence disturbing.

Karma-whoring is when you write something with the purpose of getting modded up and thus gaining karma. Replying to posts near the top of the page is simply because otherwise your comment ends up at the bottom of the page, where very few people will read it. Wanting your post to be read in no way implies karma-whoring; it's simply an adaptation to Slashdot-style discussion.

Re:A "must-have" package

[foniksonik]

Excepting the fact that the OP doesn't have a rating, doh!

Re:A "must-have" package

[bonch]

Why did you reply with something unrelated? Were you trying to get easy karma by posting something trite at the top of the discussion?

Re:A "must-have" package

[LordVader717]

Karma-whoring is when you write something with the purpose of getting modded up and thus gaining karma.

Well, let's look at that post again:

<insert open-source application> is installed on all of our Linux PCs at home, and on the Windows PCs and VMs at work. It is one of the "must-have" applications for <insert application type>. We all use it at home, adults & kids.

The more prominent the post is, the more this technique will work

Hurrah!

[Anonymous Coward]

But think how long it's going to take to get to 1.0...

Re:Hurrah!

[palegray.net]

As a general rule, "1.0" doesn't really hold a lot of significance in the open source community with regard to actual usefulness. A heck of a lot of the (very stable) stuff I use is < 1.0.

Re:Hurrah!

[mcrbids]

But you forgot to say why!

Many times, developers will have a list of features that they figure are "1.0". They may not have reached all the features yet, but the features developed thusfar may be very stable.

A case in point is my own set of backup scripts (this is not) Backup Buddy. I've been using them for years, they work very well, stable even with very large sets of data. (Well into the TBs currently, managing over 100 backup sources in 24 hour rotation)

But I don't consider them "1.0" yet because I always envisioned a handy-dandy web interface for managing backup rotations, verifying backups (currently working) and recovering files 1-by-1 securely. So, I edit config files. (aw shucks)

Re:Hurrah!

[DNS-and-BIND]

That's why I'll take one look at it and go on to the next one. I've used enough crap software to know that I don't want my money depending on some hacker's never-to-be-finished software. Another warning sign is a cutesy name like "the GIMP" or "(this is not) Backup Buddy". Google is readily available to give any piece of software a unique, non-namespace-polluting name like Drupal or Joomla or Linux.

Re:Hurrah!

[ynef]

Unfortunately, I find that the opposite also is true, namely that > 1.0 not necessarily implies that the software is stable. This is not unique for the FOSS community, of course.

Re:Hurrah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. And KDE 4.2 was that enormous mess we all saw.

Re:Hurrah!

[Spazztastic]

A case in point is my own set of backup scripts (this is not) Backup Buddy

My primal instincts kicked in and I was ready to attack since I misread that as Bonzi Buddy.

Re:Hurrah!

[ickleberry]

i would rather edit config files than use a web interface, tbh

Re:Hurrah!

[palegray.net]

Good points :).

Re:Hurrah!

[DaVince21]

1.0 just means that it's feature-complete enough to be useful, without lacking anything major, though. As well as being polished of course.

From there, the software still wouldn't be complete. People would keep working on it and the software would still get better and better from that point on, but the 1.0 at least indicates that it does everything that the official creator aimed it to be.

Re:Hurrah!

[Tubal-Cain]

Seconded.

Brilliant piece of software

[zhilla2]

As a person who uses vector drawing programs from time to time, this program was a great find. Having pirated Corel Draw installed, mostly for rubbish reasons, was also bad - for bloat reasons, law reasons - and sanity reasons. I remember that Corel then (>5 years ago) had so much bugs, slow and unresponsible, bad support for local fonts, unstable. For all my purposes Inkscape is by far better program - compact, standards compliant, fully functional, and frankly I enjoy using it much better than Corel Draw. Couple bugs yes, but brilliantly reliable compared to horrible nightmare that is (was?) Corel Draw.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[BitZtream]

Its far from standards compliant, unless you think Word is HTML compliant when you use it as an HTML editor.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Nicolas MONNET]

It does not cover all of SVG, that does not mean it's not compliant with the standard.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[SpinyManiac]

I take the opposite view. I like Inkscape and I used it for a while, but I needed some features which, at the current rate of development, are a couple of years away.
The one which stands out is this: You can add shapes to the ends of lines, arrowheads for example. What you can't do is change the colour so they match the line, they're always black.

I switched to CorelDraw X4. There is a non-commercial version available which doesn't have the horrible activation/DRM system, and you get three licences for £80. It doesn't seem to be cut down in any way, but the bugs annoyed me until Corel released a service pack.

I'll be checking out the new version of Inkscape anyway.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[zhilla2]

Your argument is invalid. Yes, it might not be 100% draft compatible, but at least its SVG files are perfectly readable in all the software I ever tried... from Firefox, Opera, to Photoshop and whatnot. As far as I know, Word HTML is actually readable mostly in IE. It does so on purpose - 1. Get monopoly 2. Break standards 3. Get people to use your proprietary formats / equipment 4. Profit!

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[neonleonb]

Extensions -> Modify Path -> Color Markers to Match Stroke Yeah, that's a crappy damn interface to something that should happen automatically, but it works.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Hurricane78]

Actually it’s not. That’s GP’s point. The extensions are simply not shown in Firefox & co. Just as with Word HTML.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[BitZtream]

If you think Firefox renders SVGs correctly, you aren't doing much with your SVGs.

Neither gecko (Firefox) nor Webkit have SVG rendering thats useful for more than basic shapes. They lack support for large swaths of the standard.

You're response is only valid if you use Inkscape to draw basic flowcharts and smiley faces, do anything complex, Inkscape, Firefox and Webkit are severely lacking.

They claim test suite compliance, if so than thats a major step to not sucking, but only if it actually saves standard SVGs. It traditionally hasn't. Its default format uses its own extensions, and its standard svg format lacked features for no apparent reason. Hell, the Inkscape extended SVG format just seems to give you some of the standard SVG features, but using custom extensions.

So great, Inkscape SVGs are renderable in Inkscape, and really simple ones will work in Firefox and Opera. Whoopdee-doo.

Do you accept a web browser with HTML 2.0 support now days? I don't.

Photoshop has a real SVG rendering engine built in, it will load files that Inkscape doesn't have a chance in hell of loading.

If you're argument is that Inkscape's lack of standard support is OK because its trying to embrace and extend the format and break compatibility with other software (again, not some extremely simple drawing) just so it can be 'the one to rule them all', then Inkscape can go fuck itself. I use SVG because it IS A STANDARD that IS SUPPORTED PROPERLY by at least SOME software. I'm not complaining about not supporting the ENTIRE standard, no one does. What it does support and how it saves on the other hand, I expect to be proper.

Again, if you think Word HTML is acceptable, you and I have completely definitions of standard. I like my 'standard' files to actually follow the definition of the standard, not someone elses own variation.

I find it amusing that your arguing that Inkscape breaking standards is acceptable because MS did it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why even claim the SVG file format? Just call it what it is. Why have a 'Inkscape SVG' and a 'Standard SVG' save option? Why not just call the Inkscape version the Inkscape file format and stop trying to piggy back on the SVG standard. Why introduce confusion to others?

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Anonymous Coward]

But just like Word is doing stuff other than webpages and does them well, Inkscape has many applications other than producing SVGs. It's popular for drawing in the scientific community, unfortunately the cairo EPS export breaks several Latex packages for working with graphics making this release useless for me, I'll have to stick to .46

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[jonbryce]

Most people who do graphics for a living use Adobe Illustrator, not Corel Draw, and they generally use it on a Mac.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Anonymous Coward]

Your argument is invalid, as it obviously lacks the ??? step.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Azureflare]

Its far from standards compliant, unless you think Word is HTML compliant when you use it as an HTML editor.

Word HTML isn't that different than normal html, just use tidy HTML and some sed rules to strip out the non-standard tags and you're golden!

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[SpinyManiac]

Well that's one of the reasons why it's a <1.0 release, I'd expect that to be in the markers dialog.

I checked the roadmap to see when that would be introduced before I switched. I just checked it again - It still says 0.50.
Maybe that's for an improved interface, but it certainly gave me the wrong impression.

Milestone 16 - Inkscape 0.50 - SVG Mobile Support
SVG Feature Compliance Effort: (Also see SVG Tiny Compliance)
* Multi-page
* Scripting
* Markers
o Inherit stroke properties (like color)
o On-canvas editing
o Fix snapping issue
* Real CMYK / LAB / HSB support

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[CnlPepper]

Which packages are breaking out of interest?

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[h4rm0ny]

Those of us that can use sed to strip out the tags are highly unlikely to be using Word to create HTML documents! We do it in vi and we like it. ;)

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Speare]

Congrats to the Inkscape team. I use it all the time for business and pleasure. I did join up with the developers of Inkscape for a month or two, so I could fix some layer-related bugs and get to know the internals a bit better. I drew this anime-fanart image, and made a script to make this video, while 0.47 was in the works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nshUvuOCHtw - it doesn't show but a tiny fraction of what Inkscape can do, but I found it fun to produce anyway.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[hullabalucination]

So great, Inkscape SVGs are renderable in Inkscape, and really simple ones will work in Firefox and Opera. Whoopdee-doo.

Just out of curiosity, I opened the native Inkscape (0.47) version of a logo I'm working on in Firefox (Linux, v3.5.5). It rendered beautifully. Same with Opera v9.63. The art has ~50 paths with more than 600 nodes each (largest ones around 3000 nodes each), transparency and blur filter effects, linear color blends and I'm pretty sure I've got a couple of radial blends in there as well. So, what's all this f*cking nonsense about "really simple ones will work in Firefox and Opera?"

* * * * *

I'd horse whip you, if I only had a horse."
—Groucho Marx

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[eggnoglatte]

Actually, if Inkscape can't correctly read, interpret, and draw EVERY standard-conforming SVG file, then it does by definition not comply with the standard.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[westlake]

As far as I know, Word HTML is actually readable mostly in IE. It does so on purpose - 1. Get monopoly 2. Break standards 3. Get people to use your proprietary formats / equipment 4. Profit!

Which came first, IE or the "standards?"

In the typical scenario, would-be monopolist flies the hyperjet out of LAX

The politically correct standards committee books seats on the huff-and-puff local wheezing its way towards Hampstead.

It may get to where it wants to go, but it is going to take awhile.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure where this rant came from; you've plainly found the save "Standard SVG" option; if you want to use that, then use it. I happen to love that Inkscape's native format is based on an open standard so I can easily see what's going on in their native format. Even if you hadn't found the "Standard SVG" option your post demonstrates that you have now idea what's going on with XML; I generally use the "Inkscape SVG" files outside of Inkscape rather than exporting "Standard SVG" because, being based on XML, it really doesn't effect any application that doesn't support the Inkscape extensions. In other words; any program that has a problem with displaying "Inkscape SVG" doesn't just have a broken SVG renderer; it has a broken XML parser.

On the subject of support of the standard; I can only think of one big deficiency in 0.46 (I've not yet installed 0.47), and it is shared with every renderer I've encountered except Batik. As long Inkscape's support is competetive with every browser out there, I see little reason to complain (obviously I'd like better support, but I see no reason to bitch on this level about it).

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[arose]

Not that means that Inkscape can't display all standards compliant SVGs. It does not mean that it can't produce SVGs that standard compliant. Just because it can't do the former doesn't mean that the later is any less valuable.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[tsa]

On a very fast computer I still prefer Corel Draw over Inkscape, maily because it has some functions Inkscape lacks. But indeed, Corel is now so bloated and slow it's almost unusable. At work we changed from Corel 9 to Corel 13 (X3 as they call it), and I had to get a new computer just to have it run at an acceptable speed. Even on my 2.8 GHz iMac at home it's sluggish sometimes. I hope Inkscape 0.47 has the functions I use a lot in Corel Draw so I can say goodbye to Corel Draw.

Re:Brilliant piece of software

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether or not Inkscape has proper SVG support, the second half of your post seems to indicate a major misunderstanding of the GP. I believe zhilla2 is CONTRASTING Inkscape and Word, not comparing them. I read the post as something like, "Although Inkscape does not fully support SVG, the formats it does support render properly according to standards; on the other hand, Word was built to only work in IE because, you know, it's Microsoft."

Snow Leopard, finally.

[Doches]

It's about time -- Inkscape on Snow Leopard has been hideously broken for months now.

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[Ash-Fox]

Inkscape on Snow Leopard has been hideously broken for months now.

If you want to do any serious graphics work, I'd recommend using Windows instead, the majority of graphics applications "just work" on it and there is not as many backwards compatibility issues forcing you to upgrade constantly in Windows as there is in OS X. There isn't even a 64bit version of most graphics applications for OS X (this includes Photoshop) due to Apple's policies on what APIs and languages you can use to make 64bit GUIs.

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[gmhowell]

Adobe has had years and plenty of notice about the 64 bit API and languages. Their fucking problem for digging in their heals, cruising on name recognition and lack of competition.

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[BitZtream]

STILL NO FREAKING SUPPORT FOR CASE SENSITIVE FILESYSTEMS ON OSX FROM ADOBE. WTF. MIGHT AS WELL JUST TURN ON THE CAPSLOCK KEY.

I refuse to buy another Adobe product until they freaking fix that. Whats worse is that I'm finding that my reasons for paying a small fortune for Creative Suite is rapidly going away. Sure its nice and would make things easier, but I'm just learning alternative, although slower, methods of accomplishing the same thing with less feature rich software.

If CS5 doesn't do it, its unlikely that I'll bother with Adobe in the future, I'll have too much time invested in knowing how to use other software better.

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[buchner.johannes]

see that?

That drop is you not buying Adobe products. Are you happy now?

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[VanessaE]

Ahh the irony of this statement. Wasn't it always the Mac that everyone used to say was *the* platform for any kind of media production in the past?

Re:Snow Leopard, finally.

[Ash-Fox]

Adobe has had years and plenty of notice about the 64 bit API and languages.

Yeah, I don't think Adobe wants to rewrite the entire Photoshop interface from scratch (which requires rewriting a bunch of graphical functions that do all the drawing too) nor do most other graphical utility developers some how and even if they did, with the amount of functionality Photoshop has, I would expect that to take years.

Personally, I feel it's Apple's fault, Apple should provide the same APIs they provide to 32bit applications to 64bit, they fact they don't makes me feel that OS X isn't quite a true 64bit capable operating system -- It isn't just simply recompiling applications like Apple claim.

Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[BitZtream]

Everytime I've looked at Inkscape in the past its idea of 'standard' SVGs is about like Word's idea of 'standard' HTML, even when you switch to the standard svg format rather than its extended version.

I'm grabbing it now, but I see nothing in the release notes about this particular issue. I see things about adding more extensions which is great and all, but I use SVG because its a documented standard that I can work with in my own software, I'd love to suggest Inkscape to others, but until its capable of producing version 1.2 SVGs with text flows that work with Apache Batik is useless. The font improvements look promising, as long as it isn't retarded and storing all text as curves.

Heres to hoping ...

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious?

The program is useless because it doesn't support one obscure feature needed by you? According to your standards, 99.999% of software must be useless.

Matter of fact, I use Inkscape for illustrations in peer reviewed journals and it works excellently. I have never missed the things you're talking about. (I don't even know what "Apache Batik" is.)
What I wish I could do though is overlining of text. So far I have to import pdf-files created with LaTeX to do that. :( Still a fantastic program.

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[gmhowell]

Apache Batik

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should I google that? I never missed it, so chances are good that I don't need it. Therefore the interoperability between Inkscape and Batik is completely irrelevant to me.

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[BitZtream]

Please compare

http://home.hccnet.nl/th.v.d.gronde/inkscape/ResultViewer.html

to

http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/status.html

My standards actually are based on some standard.

I was excited when I saw 'svg test suite compliance' in the release notes, then I looked at the test results. The omit a large portion of them and fail a massive chunk of them.

A new feature in the release notes is 'Initial SVG font support' ... Inkscape is roughly the same as using Frontpage 2000 to make web pages. Sorry I got your fanboy panties in a bunch, but reality sucks sometimes.

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[BitZtream]

You should continue using IE also, you'll never miss viewing web pages properly.

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well reality is that what the SVG export of a vector graphics program does is completely irrelevant to most users. Peer reviewed journals typically take .eps, .tif, .pdf and maybe .png. Who cares what the intermediate representation looks like? Only crazy people would say MS-Word is useless software because the HTML-export sucks. Same thing here.

PS: The ad-hominem at the end of your post makes *me* feel sorry for *you*. Not the other way round.

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't get his "fanboy panties" in a bunch. HE pointed out that you are a narrow minded curmudgeon for calling a program useless because it doesn't do what *you* want it too. Batik fails against the standard too, just not as badly. Next time just say it is useless *to you* and no one will have to call you out for being a jerk

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everytime I've looked at Inkscape in the past its idea of 'standard' SVGs is about like Word's idea of 'standard' HTML, even when you switch to the standard svg format rather than its extended version.

I'm grabbing it now, but I see nothing in the release notes about this particular issue. I see things about adding more extensions which is great and all, but I use SVG because its a documented standard that I can work with in my own software, I'd love to suggest Inkscape to others, but until its capable of producing version 1.2 SVGs with text flows that work with Apache Batik is useless. The font improvements look promising, as long as it isn't retarded and storing all text as curves.

Heres to hoping ...

If you are looking for vector graphics application which based on SVG and outputing clean svg without proprietary namespace (aka clean svg), then you might be interested in Sketsa SVG Editor at http://www.kiyut.com/products/sketsa/index.html

note: it is commercial though

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[ultranova]

Well reality is that what the SVG export of a vector graphics program does is completely irrelevant to most users. Peer reviewed journals typically take .eps, .tif, .pdf and maybe .png.

What do "peer reviewed journals" have to do with "most users" of an illustration software? I think that you have a vastly skewed idea of what this software is used for...

Re:Does it actually make standard SVGs yet?

[Whitemage12380]

Perhaps the poster was extreme in the use of "most", or perhaps not. But I think the Microsoft Word parallel is perfect here. Some people use Inkscape to create Vector graphics that they or others may want to open in vector form, which may be anywhere from few to most of the userbase, I don't really know (and I'm sure everybody posting here is assuming most people are using the software the same way they are using it). But there are plenty of other people, including myself, that use Inkscape to use the flexibility and power of vector graphics to create a final result that is not a vector, but is a piece of graphics or art that can be put to good use as a bitmap or pdf. Inkscape is indispensable for many people.

The closed circle

[westlake]

As a general rule, "1.0" doesn't really hold a lot of significance in the open source community with regard to actual usefulness.

It's rather a pity that so many projects like Inkscape might be overlooked by all those folks living outside the open source community.

Where Rev. 0.x = Beta state, maybe, and Alpha, more than likely. Immature. Unstable. Basic features missing or unusable.

Think of it as another handicap, like naming your premier photo editing program The GIMP - which to the outsider translates simply as "crippled" and "sexually perverse."
 

Re:The closed circle

[beelsebob]

Where Rev. 0.x = Beta state, maybe, and Alpha, more than likely. Immature. Unstable. Basic features missing or unusable.
You mean, exactly like inkscape is? No disrespect to it – it's an awesome project... but it's by no means a mature editor.

Re:The closed circle

[Hurricane78]

Nah. It’s a mental handicap to pre-judge software that way. And besides: What kind of needy loser lets others dominate how he wants to build his software? Someone with no own sense of reality and system of values? Well then he won’t become much of a leader, or innovator will he? ^^
Especially, if you work for free anyway.

Maybe you should not assume, that you can demand special treatment from someone who gives you things for free. :)

I, for example, have only one reason I write most of my software: For me. So I can use my computer in a better way.
If you happen to like it, that’s nice and all. Take it, have fun. :)
But don’t come and ask for anything as if you payed for it!
You can offer me money to listen to your suggestion or help you, of course.
But also don’t expect me to take it, if it’s not worth it for me. :)

Re:The closed circle

[daid303]

I'm no artist, but I do like to create things, so I use many tools to do just about anything. But I don't want to spend many hours learning a tool, as I just want to create something quick and easy.

Now, in my years I've come across many tools. Closed source/open source, free/payed. I've used anything from mspaint to photoshop, from milkshape to 3D studio max. I've tried GIMP, Blender and Inkscape as open source tools. And quickly dumped GIMP and Blender, they are not userfriendly for entry level at all. Blender doesn't allow you to do anything unless you spend a few hours just configuring things and doing tutorials, which is a pain in the ass compared to 3D studio max (yes, you get what you pay for, 3DS Max is not cheap). Milkshape is also much easier to use then Blender, but has much less features, still I think Blender could learn from it.
About the same goes for GIMP vs Photoshop, but in that respect GIMP is much friendlier then Blender. However, photoshop still seems to have an edge in entry level usage.

And then we had Inkscape, installed, started, and go. No problems at all, didn't need to look for any alternatives. Now, I only use 10% of the features of these programs. But for everything I used I think Inkscape is the only that really should get the 1.x version stamp.

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

While it's true that Blender is awful in the beginning, once you get the hang of it you understand why they made it this way. And frankly, it's not beyond the reach of somebody who really wants to start 3d editing (not a very common user). You should just understand that their target audience = poeple who spend a few hours configuring things and doing tutorials.

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

Where Rev. 0.x = Beta state, maybe, and Alpha, more than likely. Immature. Unstable. Basic features missing or unusable.

Where would that be?

In the Microsoft world, 1.0 is prototype, 2.0 is feature preview, 3.0 is alpha, 3.1 is beta, 3.y where y>1 is stable, and 4.0 is oh f*ck, they broke everything.

From x>=5, x.0 is alpha, SP1 is beta, and somewhere between SP2 and SP6 is stable.

Re:The closed circle

[zwei2stein]

Interesting you mention theese two programs.

Bitter blender experience (Cinema 4D spoiled me) and constant trouble with Gimp (so many bad concepts, usability nightmare that unlike Blender can not be overcome by learning interface) have bittered me against pretty much any graphic tool that comes from opensource, it certainly caused me to dismiss Inkspace the very instead i heard about it. But this is insteresting, OS graphics tool that actually works well?

Re:The closed circle

[thuerrsch]

It's a fact that most proprietary software is invariably sneered at by folks like us living a happy life outside the commercial software circus.

Where Vista, a. k. a.Rev. 6.0 = Beta state, maybe, and Alpha, more than likely. Immature, even after many years of development. Fucked up beyond recognition. Unusable.

Think of it as another handicap, like naming your cash-cow word processing program WORD - which to the enlightened translates simply as "crippling its users' freedom", "perversely expensive" and, therefore, "evil".

Re:The closed circle

[X0563511]

I've never modeled something with more than 50 polygons before. Blender was the first thing to let me make a complete complex model*, and I did it with not very much outside help.

It took me a week to figure even the basics of Maya and 3D-Studio Max.

I don't accept your argument against Blender, by my very own experience of that learning process.

* - Modeled 1016 polygons, if you include edge loops for the smoothing/subsurface modifiers. The "actual" mesh is only 400 or so.

Re:The closed circle

[X0563511]

Yep. I don't use it much, but from cruising through the built-in tutorial (which is actually an editable file... so the tutorial is directly interactive) I was able to make a few things. I still don't know WTF I'm doing with GIMP. I basically use it to resize and crop - anything else is a PITA to figure out (besides basic filters)

Re:The closed circle

[daid303]

Guess we have different needs, maybe I'm just trying to do something with blender it's not designed to do. Mainly very low poly models, with full control of every vertex, something which is best done with Milkshape. And conversion of model formats + fixing up some issues.

But Blender got a price for just pissing me off with the "import file" dialog, depending on the type you are trying to import the file browse and path act differently, don't remember the last path, and the import sometimes fails without any notice.

But good to know that it works for people other then myself.

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to make a company dedicated to get all those 0.XX beta stage Open Source program, made strong software Quality Assurance tests (including robustness, UI and efficiency) and sold the X.00 versions.

Unfortunately due to the software licenses, I would have to charge a *big* initial amount of money to release the software in order to cover the costs of production.

Re:The closed circle

[theolein]

The problem with propriety software is not necessarily the quality, but the cost. The price of 3DS Max may be a painful but possible one for you, but that is certainly not the case in most of the world outside of developed countries. If someone in South Africa, for instance, where the price of 3DS Max is the equivalent of 3/4 of a years salary in some cases, were to wish to do 3D, he would have to either use a pirated copy of 3DS Max, or use something like Blender.

Re:The closed circle

[sowth]

I think Blenders problem of a clunky interface is because they tried to roll their own and didn't know how. Granted, I think when they started, there weren't many decent toolkits, especially ones which supported 3d, so they probably didn't have a choice.

BTW, Blender didn't begin as open source. It started as a commercial product. IIRC, the company went under, and a bunch of people got together to pay for it to be GPLed.

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I love how you managed to get that twisted mind of yours to write "GIMP" by the way what 99% people does not even think about. You filthy bastard!

But you are right. we should change the GIMP name to be more natural and typical word. How about FUCK, COCK or TITS? We all see and hear those so many different places in reallife and on movies etc. So no one can not get offended by those words. How I love that you got your point...

Re:The closed circle

[drinkypoo]

It's rather a pity that so many projects like Inkscape might be overlooked by all those folks living outside the open source community.

Not really. We can't really use them before the 1.0 release because what is needed is a community that can handle filing bug reports. Most artists don't fall into this category; most artists are like my mom, who knows jack diddly shit about the computer except how to run Pagemaker, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Y'all can get your panties in a wad, but I consider myself a commercial artist, and I have known enough of them to know that tech-savviness is the exception to the rule.

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't like there isn't a ton of half-baked alpha or beta quality software for sale in the proprietary software world. Give something away for free and people get judgmental quickly. If you had said MS Paint ruined your opinion of all proprietary graphics applications you would sound kind of silly.

Re:The closed circle

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

On the other hand, if a person or group is making software for use by other people (as Inkscape seems like it's far from a "scratch a personal itch" project) then one does need to take into account the perceptions of those other people.

Re:The closed circle

[Fri13]

Blender doesn't allow you to do anything unless you spend a few hours just configuring things and doing tutorials, which is a pain in the ass compared to 3D studio max (yes, you get what you pay for, 3DS Max is not cheap).

Yes, the money makes the software to be such that it is 100% intuitive and not the UI. We all know that 3D Studio Max is very expensive and thats why it is 100% intuitive so every new users can do same kind effects as we see on the movies when they just pay the license. It is just so awesome that my 80 year old grandmother did better effects to her family movies than what we all have seen on movies like Titanic, Matrix, Final Fantasy and so on. Too bad that the movie studios are so stupid that they do not use 3D Studio Max because it just allows you to create everything so easily without studying and learning first the 3D modeling.

  And the blender UI... it really is just so terrible. You see that you can configure it how you want it and how you want it to be on every project. It is just so awful that you need different kind UI with different set of tools for different kind modelings. We really should get a samekind UI what MS copied to Office and started to call them as "Ribbon". Yeah, the Blender would be MUCH easier by that way. No wait... the ribbon is so easy but why does 3D Studio Max have the old 80's looking UI then? Hmm... wonder just why...

But really. When it comes to UI's. The most powerfull UI is not the default. Good defaults just makes the learning easier. But it does not mean that the using the application is easier. The Blender is not designed for new comers, to be a simple tool. It is designed for powerusers who knows what they need and they can get the UI to adapt their demands. Same thing is with GIMP. You can just simply change the UI to such what you like to do. The GIMP has almost everything what any PS user needs to get things done. But problem is that it is not the Adobe Photoshop but GIMP and problem is caused from attitude about it because by default it is not similar with GIMP.

Question is only about do you know the power of GIMP/Blender UI or not. Seems you have never even tried to solve problems. But you just made up your mind and you try to stick with it as long as possible. You believe the problem is on GIMP. But you do not accept to notice the problem is you. For those new users who comes to Linux and have used someway PS. I configure GIMP look more like this http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9131/gimpps.jpg That is not a perfect because I use myself different kind UI what fits my needs better. But I know it can be configured pretty close one to PS. And they do not usually miss anything and actually they like GIMP because it teach them the basic thinking how to do manipulate photos and not just using automatic filters getting similar looking results every time.

Re:The closed circle

[squallbsr]

Because Adobe Illustrator is bug-free, completely stable and doesn't corrupt files, like EVER?

Every software is going to have stuff that works great and stuff that wasn't thought out well or tested well - even on version 13.0.0.1

Re:The closed circle

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want free accessible 3D software then Wings 3D is what you want. It's based on similar design and ideas of the commercial Mirai/Nendo products, which quite simply are some of the best, powerful, easiest to use poly/subdivision modeling software ever made.

Wings 3D lacks animation but for modeling it can't be beat.

Re:The closed circle

[westlake]

If someone in South Africa, for instance, where the price of 3DS Max is the equivalent of 3/4 of a years salary in some cases, were to wish to do 3D, he would have to either use a pirated copy of 3DS Max, or use something like Blender.

South Africa isn't quite the backwater you might think:
Animation SA

Re:The closed circle

[westlake]

It's a mental handicap to pre-judge software that way.

There are only so many hours in the day. SourceForge is live burial. Exhumation takes time.

Maybe you should not assume, that you can demand special treatment from someone who gives you things for free.

Which is why The GIMP disappears from the default Ubuntu install.

IrfanView is free. Paint.NET is free. When you present something to the public you invite comparison.

The best-of-breed finds sponsors.

You can offer me money to listen to your suggestion or help you, of course.
But also don't expect me to take it, if it's not worth it for me. :)

There is something to be said for working with the guy who is building a business. The bathrooms are clean and the dishes have been washed. The doors open at seven and close at nine as predictably as the rising and setting of the sun.

Re:The closed circle

[EvilBudMan]

Yeah, and Blender will do things nothing else will including 3ds.

Re:The closed circle

[arose]

(so many bad concepts, usability nightmare that unlike Blender can not be overcome by learning interface)

Speak for yourself. There are many happy GIMP users, me included, that disprove this sweeping generalization.

Re:The closed circle

[ldj]

There is something to be said for working with the guy who is building a business. The bathrooms are clean and the dishes have been washed. The doors open at seven and close at nine as predictably as the rising and setting of the sun.

Wow, you live in some sort of business Utopia! Based on my lifetime interactions with various retail/service-oriented businesses, I come out pleasantly surprised if I get an experience even close to the image your presenting above. On the other hand, I often have good experiences working with volunteer organizations. Maybe that's partly because volunteers are offering their time because they enjoy helping with the particular task, whereas the primary motivator of paid employees is often the paycheck.

When it comes to software development, there is usually much less chance for user input and interaction with the developer(s) of commercial packages than open source packages. So your opinion depends at least partly on whether you consider yourself simply a consumer or a partner/contributor. Nothing wrong with either viewpoint.

Of course, neither type of entity is a guarantee of good products or services, but I certainly don't agree with your opinion that people generally receive better results when paying than when not.

Re:The closed circle

[ScislaC]

They are redoing the UI for Blender 2.5, an alpha of it was released yesterday in case you're interested.

Re:The closed circle

[daid303]

Nice that you replied to me, but have you read my post at all? Or did you just noticed that I didn't like Blender/GIMP because of the UI and started to rant?

Because in the first line I mention that I'm not an artist. And that I don't want so spend a lot of time configuring/learning the tools. And that I don't want to create the next blockbuster. I don't need the most powerful UI, I just want to create something. Now.

Also the post was just to support that Inkscape is pretty good in that aspect, compared to other major FOSS tools.

how it is different from..

[v4vijayakumar]

allowing users to save images as svg format from gimp ?

Re:how it is different from..

[Anonymous Coward]

gimp is a rasterized graphics editor. Inkscape do vector graphics.

Re:how it is different from..

[dushkin]

Inkscape has great tools to handle vectors. It could work as a part of gimp, sure, but gimp doesn't currently have the tools to do it as good as inkscape.

Re:how it is different from..

[BitZtream]

Saving SVGs from GIMP is like saving PDFs from Photoshop.

Sure, it outputs a SVG file, but the editor is focused on editing bitmap images. Most people will get a PNG or JPG embedded in an SVG when saving an SVG from GIMP.

In the past (Its been a while since I've used GIMP so this could be completely different now), saving an SVG from GIMP would first render most everything too a raster image format, then just embed a single or multiple raster images in the SVG, turning the SVG into basically a wrapper around the layers of rasterized images.

Inkscape is intended to work on shapes and not rasterized images. Text doesn't get rasterized before saving, it gets written to the file as texts using a specific font or as curves. A rectangle is stored as a rectangle object with which a border style, fill style, and maybe a filter. Circles, and other polygons are the same.

Later when you want to resize an object stored as a shape rather than a rasterized image, you just scale the shape, there is 0 quality loss. Resize a rasterized image in GIMP to something larger and you'll start seeing artifacts rather quickly. Changing the border color on a rectangle in GIMP would require you to select the area around the rectangle with manually, with a magic wand tool, or maybe a script, then change the color of the individual pixels, overlaying the existing pixels. With antialiasing turned on this can quickly turn into a mess as it blends in with the existing colors or the background. Changing the border color in Inkscape will result in a final image without the mixing of colors associated with rasterized images as the file is really a set of instructions for drawing shapes. Instead of changing the individual pixels directly, you change the command that creates those pixels in the first place.

Inkscape is to GIMP what Flash is to Photoshop or GIMP.

SVGs also allow for animation and scripting in the file itself. Not scripting like you normally use with GIMP, but scripting like producing animation, allowing for interactivity kind of like a web page. With SVGs you can create user interfaces and applications and use them in an SVG viewer with proper support. At one point I was working on (just for fun) a clone of the Evony Flash game written in SVG and javascript. You could open it with Apache Batik or Webkit and 'play' the game. Clicking on various 'buttons' would call javascript functions to do the backend work, talk to the server, ect.

SVG is comparable to Flash in most ways except the lack of sound and video support, which are handled by other standards. Flash uses ActionScript, SVG uses Javascript.

Theres a lot of other differences and a lot of commonality between the two from an outside perspective, but you'll find that if you're editing a photo, you want to do it in GIMP. If you're drawing shapes, flowcharts, and the like, you'll want to do it with an SVG.

I read somewhere, although I can't verify it, that Southpark (The TV show, if you live under a rock) is done using SVG. Even if it isn't, Southpark would be something SVG is perfectly suited to doing, where as doing it in GIMP would surely suck ass for the guys doing the drawing and animation. It'd be relatively simple to do with SVG.

Re:how it is different from..

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, southpark is done in Maya.

Re:how it is different from..

[srothroc]

Inkscape is to GIMP what Illustrator is to Photoshop.

Adobe Flash is not only rudimentary vector graphics, but lots of scripting.

Re:how it is different from..

[Anonymous Coward]

South Park use Maya. Complete overkill, but they have their reasons (they discussed in an interview).

Re:how it is different from..

[isolationism]

I read somewhere, although I can't verify it, that Southpark (The TV show, if you live under a rock) is done using SVG.

The reason you can't find a reference is because they never used SVG to animate the show. They currently use 3D software in production, according to their own FAQ from 2001:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/fans/faq/archives.php?month=5&year=2001#faq_732

Re:how it is different from..

[Anonymous Coward]

They do not use SVG; they use CorelDraw and Maya.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park#Animation

Re:how it is different from..

[Dr_Barnowl]

They use CorelDRAW and Maya.

Re:how it is different from..

[Anonymous Coward]

... currently ... from 2001 ...

Hmmmm........

0.47

[mwvdlee]

Why still a 0.x version number?
Do the developers still consider Inkscape to be unsuitable for normal use?

Re:0.47

[Dice]

Their roadmap states that the 1.0 milestone is "full SVG 1.1 support".

Re:0.47

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Just think of it as release 47.0, and you'll feel much better about it.

Re:0.47

[rxmd]

The step from 0.46 to 0.47 has taken them over a year. They have some major architectural refactoring efforts still in the pipeline ("Separate sections of code into various libraries for use by other programs" for 0.52 -> 0.53). While it's an impressive program that I use daily (with little complaints, apart from stability issues on Windows at work), I get the impression that their roadmap is such that if they follow it, they will never get to 1.0.

Re:0.47

[Hurricane78]

What’s wrong with that?
Think of 1.0 as perfection. And just as with a mathematical limit, you will never reach it.

You will only get to a certain level of closeness to perfection, that in “good enough”.

Then (or even in parallel), you write a new roadmap for 2.0, (the second generation) that is not possible with the 1.0 architecture, and requires a major redesign. And until that one gets to “good enough” for you, it’s still 0.x/1.0 for you.

I think the major misconception is the mixup of major version and generation here. They work more in the [generation].[version] mindset as in the [major].[minor] mindset. Firefox did that too until 1.0. Then they switched to major-minor for marketing reasons. You can still see the old versioning in the Gecko engine. It is now at 1.9.1.5 for Firefox 3.5.5. As you can see, we “only” are close to the second generation. Which took just as long as the years that it took to get to 1.0.

So, as another commenter said: See it as Inkscape 47.0, and be happy. :
(Or more exact: See the 47 as a mix of the major and minor version. And it being the first generation, where counting started at zero.)

Re:0.47

[jez9999]

What's wrong with that?

The problem is that the version number is something that has semantic relevance to most users, and the vast majority of programs don't think of version 1.0 as 'perfection', they think of it as (usually) the first reasonably feature-full, stable, release. Giving a program a version of 1 makes it sound like a beta or worse, which gives at least some users the impression that it may not be stable or acceptably solid.

Re:0.47

[sowth]

So you are saying everyone should do as Microsoft does? Yeah, they should do half-assed debugging and design. What a wonderful idea.

Re:0.47

[sydb]

If users make those kind of assumptions based on version numbers, that's their loss. They're probably also the users that don't read the FAQ or the release notes then whine about things that are documented. If I was developing a project like Inkscape I might choose to try and put off those users by keeping the version number fractional.

Re:0.47

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one am waiting for Milestone 16 (v. 0.50) since more than three years. All that I want is to be able to make a red arrow. Markers (such as arrow tips) inheriting stroke properties (like color) are still 3 milestones away...

Ok I understand that Inkscape is not first and foremost a technical drawing tool and is geared more towards artists, but the rest of Inkscape is really good, I'd love to be able to do basic schematic drawings with it. Alternatives (such as OO.o Draw) are really poor in comparison.

Inkscape is great

[randomsearch]

Anyone with a need to create simple vector-based drawings should check out Inkscape. I use it for figures in presentations and for box diagrams in academic documents and have found nothing better. The finished product looks great.

It's also handy for editing PDFs after they are exported from R (Statistical Package). Often something you can't easily tweak in R can be fixed very quickly in Inkscape.

The best thing about it is the interface: very easy to pick-up, yet extremely flexible. A lot of thought has clearly gone into the UI design.

RS

Re:Inkscape is great

[Anonymous Coward]

Often something you can't easily tweak in R can be fixed very quickly in Inkscape.

Do you per chance work for the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia?

Re:Inkscape is great

[Blakey Rat]

The best thing about it is the interface: very easy to pick-up, yet extremely flexible. A lot of thought has clearly gone into the UI design.

Unless you're using it on OS X, or Windows, in which case it's awful. It uses X11 in OS X, which is enough to indicate awfulness in that OS. On Windows, it doesn't support tablet PCs, voice recognition, has mutated Open/Save dialogs, etc. It's awful.

Re:Inkscape is great

[randomsearch]

>> Do you per chance work for the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia?

Well, those outliers really do make my figures look messy...

Re:Inkscape is great

[ldj]

I suggest you waste no more of your time on it. It's apparent that it doesn't satisfy your needs or expectations.

The rest of us can form our own opinions. Personally, I appreciate and use Inkscape occasionally, and am happy to see its continued development.

Re:Inkscape is great

[Blakey Rat]

Actually, I do use it, and I struggle with it because it has a awful UI.

I just have to reply to people saying it has this great holy UI when, in fact, it sucks on 2/3rds of the platforms it runs on. (And possibly Linux too, but I don't have a Linux box to test it on.)

Re:Inkscape is great

[ldj]

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. In my opinion, the interface is fine -- not significantly better or worse the the UI for competing applications, both proprietary and open source.

My point is that when people use words like "awful" and "sucks" when describing tools that actually do get the job done (even for those people), it tends to come across like bitching and moaning rather than useful input. What lies lower than "awful" on your scale of quality adjectives? You might want to think about this if you want to be taken seriously instead of being seen as a whiner who's unable to adapt to minor differences in tools (or life's changes).

I realize you're by no means the only person that uses such descriptions, but do you really want to continue to be lumped in with other extremists, fanboys, and whiners?

Sorry for coming across so harsh on Thanksgiving Day, but thought you should know how your continued use of extremes is interpreted. Have a good day!

Re:Inkscape is great

[Blakey Rat]

What you're missing is that a UI can suck and be awful, and the program still be useful. For example, all of the Unix CLI sucks and is awful, but most of the posters here will defend it to the death. (Of course, they've never bothered to try anything different/better, but... I won't get into that.)

If you're using Inkscape in Windows, its UI sucks. I'm not going to mince words, that's really the correct level of description to use.

Am I saying it's useless? No.

Am I saying that people can't do work in it? Of course not.

Do *I* do work in it? Yes.

My point is that when people use words like "awful" and "sucks" when describing tools that actually do get the job done (even for those people), it tends to come across like bitching and moaning rather than useful input.

I've put in tons of input to the Inkscape project. Virtually all my issues were marked as being "GTK+" issues (as if I care, just FIX IT!), and shunted off to one of those lovely open source bug trackers where nobody ever reads or acts on the bugs. There's no point to copying all that input here, since this isn't a bug tracker and I'm too lazy to do all that typing. And Inkscape (for all practical purposes) ignores them on their own bug tracker, anyway.

"Awful" makes for a useful abbreviation of the preceding paragraph.

What lies lower than "awful" on your scale of quality adjectives?

Godawful. Abominable. Shitty. Lotus Notes.

You might want to think about this if you want to be taken seriously instead of being seen as a whiner who's unable to adapt to minor differences in tools (or life's changes).

Oh yah. Maybe I should put some of my issues with Inkscape into the bug track-- OH WAIT I ALREADY DID THAT.

Look, as long as Inkscape is using GTK+ for their Windows and OS X ports, their software is going to suck on those platforms. It's X11 on OS X, and it's plain bad on Windows... there is:
1) No way any program, no matter how great the usability in Linux, can be usable in Windows or OS X
2) No way to fix any of the problems with GTK+, because they don't bother to read their bug tracker.

If Inkscape wants to improve the UI on Windows and OS X, they're going to have to port it to a better UI library. That's all there is to it. Firefox isn't perfect, but it's 95% there on Windows and OS X, for example. Using their UI library would get Inkscape a lot of mileage. Also note that this also applies to other GTK+ apps, Pidgin for example.

Sorry for coming across so harsh on Thanksgiving Day, but thought you should know how your continued use of extremes is interpreted. Have a good day!

It's a free country, you can interpret it however the fuck you want.

But on the same token, don't assume I haven't tried to improve Inkscape's UI, or that I'm complaining about something with no basis.

Re:Inkscape is great

[ldj]

Whoosh!! Totally missing the point. My comments had nothing to do with how many "bugs" you may have reported. (From your comments, I'm not convinced that you know the difference between a bug and a personal preference.) Sorry to see that you're unable to accept the fact that other people have used many other tools and *choose/prefer* interfaces that you don't. You think that's because people don't know any better?! Wow. Guess this conversation is over. Sounds like my attempt at enlightenment is getting under your skin a bit when you have to resort to swearing.

Since you sound like you plan to continue using Inkscape with its "awful" interface, I'll leave you in this unfortunate predicament you've chosen for yourself. Hopefully, you'll figure out how to better express yourself. First you say Inkscape is not "useless" and that you, in fact, use it. Then you say, "No way any program, no matter how great the usability in Linux, can be usable in Windows or OS X." Hmm.

Re:Inkscape is great

[Blakey Rat]

Whoosh!! Totally missing the point. My comments had nothing to do with how many "bugs" you may have reported. (From your comments, I'm not convinced that you know the difference between a bug and a personal preference.)

The ones I reported were obvious bugs, had nothing to do with personal preferences.

Sorry to see that you're unable to accept the fact that other people have used many other tools and *choose/prefer* interfaces that you don't.

No, people say it's great because it's good in 1/3rd of the OSes it runs on. If you're using Inkscape in Linux, you've probably noticed no usability problems, and kudos. But... again... that only applies to 1/3rd of the platforms Inkscape runs on.

Then you say, "No way any program, no matter how great the usability in Linux, can be usable in Windows or OS X." Hmm.

That's a editing fail. I meant to add GTK+ in that sentence:

"No way any GTK+ program, no matter how great the usability in Linux, can be usable in Windows or OS X."

I think you have a problem with the word "usability." It doesn't refer to whether it's *possible* to use the program or not, it refers to how easy/consistent the program is to use. It's possible to use a program with terrible usability to get real work done-- see the Lotus Notes example I gave before. It's just unpleasant, and everything takes longer than it would if the program were usable.

I hope to God that you don't write software that you expect other human beings to use, if this has to be explained to you.

Still no coloured line-ends?

[Anonymous Coward]

How many versions before you can have arrowheads in the same colour as their lines?

Re:Still no coloured line-ends?

[foxylad]

None actually - Extensions/Modify Path/Color Markers to Match Stroke. Happy now?

Re:Still no coloured line-ends?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please explain to me why on earth this isn't the default?! I'd expect to find something like this in the color dialog not in the EXTENSIONS menu.

Excellent news.

[Robert Frazier]

As others have said, this is a real gem of an opensource program. I've been using it for years (skencil previously), mostly in designing dials for wrist watches.

Best wishes,
Bob

Some suggestions

[bytesex]

As someone who works with these kinds of tools regularly, I'd like to blurt this out to the graphical tools people in the open source world:
- Merge vector drawing into the gimp. Make it a layer like thing. Then add paging. Now you can produce a book.
- Barring that, please make all these vector-drawing tools (inkscape, skencil) multi-page and when you do: try not to hold the whole document in memory. Please. I make books that hold images in 300 dpi. Anymore than twenty such pages and you're beginning to stutter; It just won't fit. Use a dbm as a file format and read and write as you please. There, that's better !
- The capability to 'bubble in' text across multiple pages won't hurt anyone. Especially if that text can be aligned to fill the width of the box.

Re:Some suggestions

[Lord Lode]

No thx, don't combine inkscape with the crappy 1000-separate-windows-floating-on-your-desktop-Gimp interface

Re:Some suggestions

[BitZtream]

The capability to 'bubble in' text across multiple pages won't hurt anyone. Especially if that text can be aligned to fill the width of the box.

Checkout Apache FOP. The future you're looking for above is available in SVG files using flowed text.

Of course the problem is still a lack of editors with flow support. They all want to flow it themselves and manually position the text for some retarded freaking reason.

Re:Some suggestions

[Herve5]

seconded :D

Re:Some suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out Scribus too.

Re:Some suggestions

[blincoln]

seconded :D

Thirded. Inkscape does right virtually everything that the GIMP does wrong. It even has a proper name.

Re:Some suggestions

[plover]

Please don't say merge!

If they could add a plug-in interface to dynamically load Inkscape functionality into the GIMP, that'd be great for GIMP users. But please don't change anything in Inkscape to do it. To curse Inkscape with the GIMP interface would kill it dead.

Re:Some suggestions

[ornel]

AFAIK fowed text was a candidate for the SVG standard but didn't get accepted in the end. Inkscape still supports it, though they will eventually implement it in a wy that complies with the standard.

Re:Some suggestions

[drinkypoo]

- Merge vector drawing into the gimp. Make it a layer like thing. Then add paging. Now you can produce a book.

Why would merging it with the gimp be beneficial?

Barring that, please make all these vector-drawing tools (inkscape, skencil) multi-page and when you do: try not to hold the whole document in memory.

You are making books wrong. First, there is no benefit to having your entire all-graphical book in one document. Save each page or pair of pages as a separate document, and combine them into a single PDF for the printer. Second, if you need additional formatting, you use a desktop publishing package; you could use TeX, or you could use Scribus, but either way you want desktop publishing software if you want to publish from your desktop. Inkscape is meant to be equivalent to Illustrator, not InDesign.

- The capability to 'bubble in' text across multiple pages won't hurt anyone. Especially if that text can be aligned to fill the width of the box.

Putting two pages in a document will allow you to do this. I'm not sure what your complaint is, but I'm pretty sure your solutions will only cause bigger problems.

Re:Some suggestions

[h4rm0ny]

I'll add my voice to this. Give me applications that are focused and good at what they do, don't create some hideous hybrid that merely does everything badly. Besides, GIMP is really the wrong tool for creating books. You should be exporting graphics from whatever program you use and then importing them in a proper desktop publishing program. If you want Libre software, you can look at Scribus for these purposes. (That has some notable omissions such as decent table layout, but it might be sufficient for your needs). You don't want to be making a book in GIMP! (Or Inkscape). Use the right tools for the right job.

Re:Some suggestions

[Abcd1234]

Or you could just use a DTP system like the rest of the book-writing world...

Re:Some suggestions

[HiThere]

Rather than add vector graphics to The Gimp, I think it would be better to add bit-map frames to Inkscape. They could even invoke The Gimp to edit them.

I agree totally, however, about the ability to handle multi-page files, and about the need to not have them all in RAM. But I'd like the ability to lay them out on a grid rather then just sequentially. And to display the current page, and it's eight neighbors, simultaneously. (Yeah, that would need to be an option. One page at a time is a better default.) N.B.: This does require managing automatic bleeding from one page onto it's neighbors.

Re:Some suggestions

[BitZtream]

Its part of the 1.2 draft, which isn't finalized for more than the Tiny profile.

Re:Some suggestions

[bytesex]

Ok. Let me be clear(er). I make children's books. Those things have lots of images, but still require continuity in text. To assemble the illustrations and text into something that I can easily ship and manipulate, I've examined the gimp, skencil, inkscape and scribus. This was a while ago, so if things have changed in the mean time, forgive me. Inkscape and Scribus did graphics nicely, but were all stuck on one page. Skencil was the only tool that could so multiple pages well, but it sucked on text. The gimp, I did all the image-pre-processing with. Skencil kept the entire document in memory, instead of quickly loading a page (or a couple of pages) when needed. It was all a great, big nightmare.

In the end I resorted to perl, make and pam-tools. Thank zeus for those. But still, I would've liked it if...

Re:Some suggestions

[Blakey Rat]

I have a suggestion too:

- Stop being so dependent on printed page measures.

If I want to make an Inkscape document 40' wide by 15' tall to sketch out a design for the side of my garage, I should be able to do that even if Office Depot doesn't sell reams of paper in that size. I shouldn't have to do my own hacks to make the dimensions fit. ("Well, if I just imagine 1cm = 1meter, then I can make it fit right...") If I want to make an Inkscape document to compare the size of the Empire State Building with the size of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, I should be able to do it-- and use the real-world measures for it!

Why should there be any maximum? Let me make a document the size of Seattle to lay out a bike route, why the fuck not?

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[BitZtream]

No, not even anywhere close to capable of what Illustrator is capable of.

A nice example from the release notes:

http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ReleaseNotes047#Initial_SVG_Fonts_support

You can design fonts within Inkscape, but using them to render text on the canvas is not yet supported.

Inkscape is fine if you don't do anything complex. Drawing basic flowcharts and simple diagrams works perfectly well.

Interoperability and actual features are another story.

But does it run on Mac OS

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to require a recent version of X11/XQuartz, which means it won't run on Mac OS 10.4?
 

Xara Xtreme Pro 5 + Illustrator CS4 here

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I tried Inkscape it was no contest and Xara improved considerably since.

Text flows!

[BitZtream]

YAY! flowRoot seems to be supported!

Now ... if only it would let you use SVG fonts ...

Maybe in another year.

Re:Text flows!

[ScislaC]

We have base support for creating SVG Fonts even at this point... the problem now is actually with the text library (which handles fonts) not supporting SVG Fonts yet... once that's good we should be good to go in that department.

Still broken... still waiting....

[TrancePhreak]

Interpolate is still broken. I even remember it being better in a previous version. I can't seem to get any of my objects to interpolate between each other. Squares work fine, crazy fire object does not. Anybody know of any other free alternatives? I am tied to CorelDraw, but have been looking for a free solution for years.

Does it work better on Mac Os X now?

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved Inkscape when in Windows, pity that the Mac version was very poor performing. I wonder if this latest version is way faster.

Why is it such a big distribution?

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading this slashdot story about InkScape and SVG I downloaded and installed the Windows version. Till now I had only seen the odd Wikipedia graphic using SVG so I thought I'd start taking a look to see what all the fuss was about. So now I've installed it, can someone please tell me why a simple graphics editor takes 190Mb disk space? That's almost as big as AutoCAD at 200Mb and over 20 times the footprint of Paint.NET at 9Mb. Just what is so special about vector graphics stuff that makes for such a whopper of a distro? It's just an editor isn't it? Has code bloat gone ballistic?

Re:Why is it such a big distribution?

[Knuckles]

can someone please tell me why a simple graphics editor takes 190Mb disk space?

I suppose that the Windows package includes the entire gtk+ toolkit and various support libraries, too. The Debian package of Inkscape is just 20 MB because Debian has the libs in separate packages (which are often already installed for other purposes, such as GNOME, anyway). Here's the dependency list: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/inkscape.

calligraphic paths for cartoon-drawing

[StripedCow]

A feature which is missing, in my opinion, is a way to convert paths into strokes with a calligraphic pen.
Adobe Illustrator has this feature, and it is really helpful for creating cartoons or cartoon-like images.

What would be also nice, and this is something that Illustrator does not offer, is a way to convert these calligraphic paths
into outlines.

Even if you are not really drawing cartoons, I think such an option can give drawings a certain extra "edge", so to speak.

Re:calligraphic paths for cartoon-drawing

[liquidsin]

if you're talking about using a brush for strokes in illustrator and turning those to outlines, try object>expand or object>expand appearance instead of object>path>outline stroke.

read vector pdf back...

[Herve5]

on a mac Intaglio will read vector PDFs keeping the vectorial info intact, reedit them, and export to various formats including svg...
http://www.purgatorydesign.com/Intaglio/index.html

As a old RiscOS users

[jabjoe]

Inkscape fills the hole left by !Draw when leaving RiscOS.
It's kind of in the family.....
!Draw -> ArtWorks -> Xara -> Inkscape (interface heavily influenced by Xara)

Pushing it I know, but nice to think of it like that, so I do! ;-)

Re:As a old RiscOS users

[drinkypoo]

The problem with your notion is that you can get Xara Xtreme for Linux for free, so Inkscape is most certainly NOT in the same family — it is competition.

Inkscape for cartography, XML editors

[ornel]

I use Inkscape extensively for making maps, and it does pretty much everything I need. I export map layers as PDFs from Qgis and import them into Inkscape one by one, then save them as SVG for further processing.

Since Qgis' export to PDF and SVG sucks, it does require quite a bit of editing of the SVG file to reduce the size and get rid of invisible artifacts. But then one of the best things of working with SVG is being able to edit your graphics file with a text editor and doing, say, find and replace on symbols (to replace those nasty Qgis bitmap symbols for SVG ones) or text. Try that with Illustrator files!

Inkscape does not take advantage of multiple cores (yet), but opening a new instance creates a completely separate process so while one Inkscape window is busy thinking you can keep working on the other at full speed.

The sad part is that i haven't been able to find a free, fully-featured XML editor to do more advanced editing of the SVG file. Eventually I had to settle for oXygen, which is not free and kind of taints my workflow.

Batik fanboy?

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, have apparently never seen a Frontpage 2000 output, otherwise you wouldnt draw such a nonsense parallel to inkscape.
I saw a lot of frontpage HTML output and i work with Inkscape too, and the comparison does NOT fit in any meaningfull way.

The most visible difference being Frontpage using custom markup IN ADDITION to standard HTML that was crucial to render the page as seen in Frontpage.

Inkscape uses a SUBSET of standard SVG and its output is does not contain markup needed to convey the visual information (There is some additional markup in the Inkscape .svg file format using separate namespace used only to persist additionla editor information)

Get your facts right pls. before you post.

And finaly, from the apparent emotional style of your post, i am not sure why you accuse other being fanboys, while displaying evident signs of being rigid batik fanboy yourself.

have a good day
mmm

Re:Batik fanboy?

[BitZtream]

I just opened and resaved a simple 1.1 document in standard mode, it most certainly has polluted the file with its own crap and worst changed style attributes from standard supported CSS to its own attributes.

I am a Batik fanboy, I won't deny it, its simply the best SVG renderer out there and it follows the standard. Unfortunately, no one has created a good editor with it yet.

I do get emotional when a bunch of douche bags drool over Inkscape. Its a rather shitty piece of software that slashdot just fucking drools over because its free. People treat Inkscape like its awesome when it does the same retarded shit that IE has done traditionally. I get annoyed by all shitty software, regardless of who makes it or what its license is. I do not make exceptions for shitty software just because its free or because its GPL. Price or license are the last things on my mind when using software, I'm more concerned with it actually doing what it claims to do.

Merge Inkscape and Gimp, are you mad?

[jabjoe]

Do one thing, do it well.
Gimp can import svg files, that's enough.
If you wish to mix vector graphics and bitmaps, best do it in a vector package where it makes sense, not the other way round where it doesn't.

I'm still bummed about XaraLX's abandonment.

[isolationism]

I have been a big Xara user for over a decade, and I couldn't believe my good fortune when they started (finally) developing a Linux port. It was making amazing progress, then suddenly -- the entire project fell flat. It's very definitely dead; it hasn't so much as twitched in years. I suspect it's because Xara got themselves acquired/partnered (or whatevered) again by a company that didn't see any financial incentive in a Linux version and killed it, but I don't have the proof to back that claim up.

As for the inevitable suggestion "Its' open source, you go finish it" -- because this is Slashdot, after all -- I respond pre-emptively with the statement that while I am one of those users who are quite content to use illustration software for my work, I have very little interest in (and absolutely no time for) building one myself.

I've used Inkscape, but it's slow (maybe that's better now), the interface is really cumbersome, and really not well-suited to drawing accurate enough for bitmap export (which is really Xara's thing). And of course, its toolset is largely restricted to what SVG can do natively. SVG might have its day yet but it's still a long way from user-agent ubiquity; until then I am still stuck accessing Xara from a Windows virtual machine on a near-daily basis to get my work done as I use Linux on my desktop. I'll be checking out the latest Inkscape, but I doubt it's going to scratch the many itches I still have with it.

I applaud their continued efforts -- and all for free, at that -- all the same.

Huh!

[gbutler69]

What you said sounds really, really, really stupid to me.

Re: I hope they solved...

[rnturn]

Well, the article did say there were "hundreds" of bug fixes. Maybe you'll find yours was fixed. What I hadn't noticed before, and was actually surprised to see, was that the version number was still so far away from a 1.0 release. I used the program for the first time in a long time yesterday and it crashed on me after just a few minutes. I can't quite recall what I did to tick it off -- I seem to recall trying to use a View menu selection sometime just before things went South -- but it popped up a window telling me that it was having a problem and, after a few seconds, proceeded to off itself. I'm doubtful that I'll be able to recreate the problem let alone recognize in the release notes whether the problem that caused it (whatever it was) was fixed. I hope so as I'm finding xfig a little clunky. I know it's been around for what seems like forever but I've been hearing that, when you want to create SVG images, Inkscape was the way to go. If that turns out to more hype than promise, well, I can get used to clunky but I'll never get used to crashing.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[HiThere]

Inkscape also does quite well on geometrically oriented line drawings. (I *do* wish they had a "straight line" object, though. One can fake it, but it's a continuing nuisance.)

Also, it would be nice to be able to adjust the editing *on the fly* to nudge selected points by one point, or some fraction thereof. One can do it with the toolbar rotating dials (forget the proper name for that widget), but it's inconvenient. And if I depend on the program to align two lines, I seem to get an offset, so I need to adjust things by had at a high resolution. So there are lots of pieces that need polish.

The big annoyance, though, is that sometimes, unpredictably, the drawings won't print. I've never figured out the reason, though I did find that if you save them as a pdf, the pdf prints fine. Annoying. And it would be nice if the screen displayed printer margins, as I'm continually having to guess and fudge as to how close to the edge I can work.

Still, it's a VERY good program. (I tried it a year ago and just about gave up on it, but the current version is much better. I hope the new version is better yet.)

P.S.: Did someone say you could do animation with Inkscape? (Well, I think they actually said SVG, which isn't quite the same thing, but I can hope.)

My indispensable feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I've tried out Inkscape before and it's pretty good, but the feature I cannot do without is perspective skew. Does anyone know if it's going to be implemented one of these days?

Check Blender 2.5 - big redesign

[Optic7]

Interesting you (and those who replied to you) should mention Blender's difficult interface, because that's one of the main things they're working on improving right now. Just yesterday they released the first Alpha of a the new 2.5 series, with an extensively (completely?) redesigned GUI meant to be easier and more logical to beginners, and both the GUI as well as keyboard shortcuts are now completely customizable.

Here is the page with info on it: http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-250/

The final new version (which will probably be version 2.6) is expected to be released in mid-2010.

Re:Check Blender 2.5 - big redesign

[Optic7]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I heard recently that GIMP is going to get a major interface redesign in the next version or two as well.

Re:Check Blender 2.5 - big redesign

[daid303]

Cool. Thanks.

I will check those out in mid 2010 then.

Re:Check Blender 2.5 - big redesign

[Optic7]

You're welcome. Definitely check in on them in the next few months. I know Blender at least is making big leaps forward.

For those that scrolled to the bottom

[horza]

Let me summarise the thread:
* beelsebob quite rightly pointed out PDF should be under Export and not Save, since Inkscape can't load PDFs
* BitZstream wrote many rambling pieces about how it wasn't compliant with the full SVG standard, most other people found it a jolly useful piece of software and were quite happy using it
* people were generally unimpressed with bytesex's idea of merging Inkscape into GIMP
* a few lamented the demise of Artworks/Xara

Phillip.

Re:For those that scrolled to the bottom

[ScislaC]

Wow... nicely summed up. :)

"All of SVG"

[Nicolas MONNET]

"All of SVG" includes stuff like scripting and SMIL animations. No single piece of software implements all of it.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[arose]

(I *do* wish they had a "straight line" object, though. One can fake it, but it's a continuing nuisance.)

Out of curiosity, what exactly are you missing that what of the new modes of the curve drawing tool won't do?

Re: I hope they solved...

[ScislaC]

There is an AutoSave feature if you're experiencing frequent crashes. Obviously it's just a workaround, but still. As for the version number, Inkscape's version number has to do with SVG compliance and nothing else. When full SVG 1.2 is supported (if ever) would be the current goal for a 1.0.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[ScislaC]

Have you noticed the past few releases of Illustrator adding features that Inkscape has had for years? We must be doing something right... anyway, I'm not looking to compare as it's obvious that you're here to bitch about Inkscape and not contribute anything positive.

Spiro splines

[Anonymous Coward]

This version of the SVG-based vector graphics editor brings improved performance and tons of new features, including: [...] Spiro splines, [...]

Is it just me or does anybody else also like Spiros more than Beziers?

There's an impressive video of Spiro splines being used in Inkscape here.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[HiThere]

I haven't used the new release yet.

However, when I say a straight line object, I mean an object that won't turn into a curved object when I manipulate it (unless I convert it into a path) on the analogy of the polygon object. Another nice feature this object could have would be the ability to snap to degrees of rotation (say in 5 degree increments) when, perhaps, the shift key was held down. (90, 45, and 30 degree increments are the most commonly used, though, so perhaps 5 degrees is overfine control. 15 degrees would make things easy to manage, though, and one could use the rotation tool to get more precise control.)

Another thing that would be useful would be a replication tool, which would allow one to specify n copies of the selected object offset by so much, rotated so much, and scaled so much. I often draw things that depend on parts being radially symmetric through a varying number of angles.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[arose]

Ah, I guess you have a habit of dragging on the line with the node tool. :-D

At least I can't think of another way to inadvertently turn a straight line into a curve. Either way you can easily turn it back by selecting both end nodes and pressing shift+c twice, or using the 'Make selected segments lines' toolbar button.

Rotation snapping has been in as far as I can remember, but holding control, not shift. These days the step size is configurable with 'File/Inkscape Preferences' under 'Steps'. I think the default actually is 15, but I keep mine on 3. It seems rather small, but you can easily do most common angles with it and still have a nice amount of control./

As far as replication goes there is 'Edit/Clone/Create Tiled Clones...', it can be cumbersome, but is ridiculously powerful.

Bug - first thing I tried

[vanners]

I have a Tablet PC so I was really intrigued by the calligraphy. First I have to configure my hardware to be pressure sensitive, except it doesn't recognise my tablet. :(

Saddest part: my tablet PC uses a Wacom tablet just like in their example!

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[HiThere]

Thanks.

I don't select the node tool on purpose, but it does keep happening. (I *like* being easily to slip into the node tool, but when I'm working with straight lines it does cause me to need a lot of undos.)

Rotation snapping with cntrl! Yay!! I really appreciate knowing that. (It's also nice that the snap angle is adjustable.)

Tiled clones? I saw that, and couldn't figure out what it meant. It never occurred to me that that was the name of what I had been thinking of as replication. Whee!!!

(Now I've got to either remember all this, or figure out where to find it in the manual.)

The only significant remaining problem that I have is that sometimes a drawing won't print on my printer unless I turn it into a pdf. I don't know where the fault for that one lies, as I never try to print svg's from any other program. (I frequently care significantly about the absolute size of pieces. If I rescale, I often need to adjust the sized of different pieces differently to allow for tolerance in putting the pieces together. Paper isn't of zero width, so many designs only work for a certain weight of paper. Inkscape maintains the absolute size, Firefox or "Image Viewer" rescale it to fit the available area. So I end up only printing from Inkscape...but sometimes, almost unpredictably, Inkscape won't print, unless I first convert the document into a pdf.)

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[arose]

I've had exported landscape PDFs print without actually adjusting properly and chopping of half of the page, but never just straight printing problems. Then again, I don't really print much from Inkscape. About the only thing I can think of is memory issues with a laser printer, but that is a complete shot in the dark.

Re:My experience with inkscape...

[HiThere]

It's not memory issues. The printing doesn't even start. And it's not landscape. (The exported PDFs *do* print properly.)

I'm pretty sure it's got to be something involving both svg and the printer driver (HP PSC 2500), since the same file will print properly from other programs (if rescaled) and other svgs will print properly from Inkscape. This doesn't pin things down very much though. I do know that sometimes it will happen with very simple figures. Once, if I remember properly, it was on a figure that had only six nodes in it. Other times it prints properly figures that are quite complex.

Well, maybe the problem will have just disappeared with the new version.

P.S.: Perhaps tiled clones isn't what I meant after all. I looked at the controls, and it didn't look like what I was after. I generally don't want rows and columns, but a series of figures each rotated slightly from the prior one about a designated center. (Often I'll take one figure, duplicate it, rotate it 180 degrees, move it into position, group the two figures. Then I can rotate the group around the center. If it's an odd number of figures, however, it's more difficult, and I don't know how to proceed for a prime number of figures. [Well, actually you double the number of figures, proceed as abover, then go back and delete half the number you've built. It's doable, but the process is a lot uglier than I'd like.])