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Virgin Media To Trial Filesharing Monitoring In UK

Shokaster writes "The Register reports that Virgin Media are to begin monitoring file sharing using a deep packet inspection system, CView, provided by Deltica, a BAE subsidiary. The trial will cover about 40% of customers, although those involved will not be informed. CView's deep packet inspection is the same technology that powered Phorm's advertising system. Initially Virgin Media's implementation will focus on music sharing and will inspect packets to determine whether the content is licensed or unlicensed, based on data provided by the record industry. Virgin Media emphasised that records will not be kept on individual customers and that data on the level of copyright infringement will be aggregated and anonymised."

52 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. Virgin media? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Deep packet inspection? All sounds like a porn operation to me.

  2. How do they know? by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have a friend who's an amateur musician and devices (his mobile phone) have started to deny him the ability to play his own music due to it being "unlicensed".

    How the hell do these clowns expect to be able to figure out what's unauthorised copying?

    1. Re:How do they know? by zonky · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What mobile phone make/model was this?

    2. Re:How do they know? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The more false-positives they measure, the more they can make the case for increasingly intrusive DPI which will inevitably include personally identifying users and meddling with their traffic if not disconnecting them.

      It's nice to see the military industrial complex involved in the music industry's problem.

    3. Re:How do they know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only the RIAA is allowed to distribute music there will be no other source or at least that is looking like their plan.

      I suggest a boycott during the 3rd Quarter: April 1, 2010- June 30, 2010, and 4th Quarter: July 1, 2010 - September 30, 2010
      Someone could set up a nice website, people could vote on a list of demands/consumer rights, and people could start an email/facebook campaign. A dent in the industries profits might get these people's attention.

      I for one think the Public Domain needs to be given back the original copyright was 14 years with a one time extension.

    4. Re:How do they know? by twotailakitsune · · Score: 3, Informative

      Boycotts do not work. I would think we would fingered that out after what Jefferson and Madison did in the start of the 1800's. "Free ships make free trade"

    5. Re:How do they know? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You don't want to replace the Internet, just add more mesh networks near the edges. If you can route packets entirely over the mesh, the ISP never sees them. If you route some of your packets over your line and some over the line coming from a neighbour with a different ISP, then neither ISP can carry out man in the middle attacks and neither can get much useful information from traffic analysis.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. I say lets try to confuse them. by bintech · · Score: 2, Funny

    Quick, everyone start sharing Barry Manilow songs.

    1. Re:I say lets try to confuse them. by Fex303 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mr Manilow, this is an outstanding viral marketing campaign. I congratulate you on your forthcoming resurgence among the hard to reach tween/teen demographics.

  4. Six months from now by Ynot_82 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    27th May 2010

    Just 6 months after the announcement to monitor their network for illegal filesharers, Virgin Media has seen a dramatic decline in subscribers.
    90% of their top tier customers (renting 20Mb/sec) have canceled their subscriptions
    This figure is similar (82%) for their 10Mb/sec tier

    Furthermore, the cost of the controversial detection methods (Deep Packet Inspection) has meant that the company has had to increase monthly subscription costs across all tiers by 10-20%
    This has seen decline (albeit much smaller, at 47%) in their lowest tier of service

    1. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only in your fantasies. Nothing will change. They'll keep the same subscriber level, and if there's any changes in level it will be due to deteriorating economic conditions.

      Face it: the average schlub doesn't give a rat's ass about the security of their internet connection from the ISP itself. In their thoughts: "Why should I? I've got nothing to hide!"

    2. Re:Six months from now by Ynot_82 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try Be
      www.bethere.co.uk

      Excellent service

    3. Re:Six months from now by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except the average schlub is probably illegally downloading movies or music. So when they find out that their internet company is going to stop them from doing it, they're going to react badly. Piracy is very quickly becoming a mainstream phenomenon. It's not only "cool" to pirate stuff, it's practical and often expected.

    4. Re:Six months from now by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You’re the master of self-fulfilling prophecies aren’t you??

      Half the reason that sometimes nothing changes, is the people constantly repeating that, taking all belief of the possiblility out of people.
      That again is half the strategy to keep people from rising up.

      Because in the end, it’s all in the mind. If ten million people want to rise up, but believe they are the only ones, then it will be much more unlikely that they really do it.
      But if ten people believe that they really can change things, they will rise up, and change things. By showing others that they are not the only ones, and thereby starting the avalanche.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  5. More details here: by D-R0C · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Virgin Media executive director of broadband, Jon James, told ZDNet UK on Thursday that the trial will go live "within days". He added that the use of such traffic-monitoring technology was part of its distribution deal with media company Universal." http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39906062,00.htm

    1. Re:More details here: by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So now I know what their engineers have been doing instead of upgrading the upstream infrastructure so that my 10Mbit connection can provide better than 500kbit with 33% packet loss. Trebles all round.

      --
      FGD 135
    2. Re:More details here: by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Excellent! I presume that Virgin Media have also built the infrastructure to comply with EU/UK privacy regulations?

      Such as, e.g., a facility to allow *every* broadband customer to be informed of and if they so choose to view *all* the information being gathered about themselves, and allow *any* of this data to be edited for accuracy by the customer, and allow *all* of this data to be deleted from *all* their servers if the customer decides to end the contract with Virgin at any time, etc.

      Moreover, I presume that Virgin Media have ensured that the nature of the data they do collect is technically necessary for the provision of their ISP service to each customer, and not simply a gratuitous and illegal collection of data that is requested for a completely independent purpose set out in a completely different contract with another entity, and to which the customer himself is not actually a party.

      These are bad economic times, and it would be a pity if some idle British lawyer were to look a little too closely at this announcement...

    3. Re:More details here: by mario_grgic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is what the banks have been doing for decades. They are happily giving details of your credit card transactions to a privately owned third party company that keeps this record about you and sells digested report about you, popularly known as credit rating, to interested other parties.

      If you wish to see the information they collect about you, you have to pay money to them, and correcting wrong information about you (since it otherwise can ruin your life) is not easy or even possible either.

      --
      As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
    4. Re:More details here: by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Data Protection Act does allow you access to this data for a nominal £10 fee. In a month or two I'll be sending them a cheque with a request for all data held about me.

      What is not clear is how this works with anonymous data. It's still my data, even if it can no longer be associated with me.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  6. Encrypted Anonymous File Sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Which is worse: All data being free, including data you don't personally like? Or regimes of data control?

  7. Time to encrypt everything. by pushf+popf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they thought DPI was expensive, wait until they try real-time decryption

    1. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by phpster · · Score: 2

      Vuze / Azerus already does this. Uses RC4 as the algorithm. But it should be enough to stop the virgin in it's tracks. Especially if they encode each download with a different key, like a random hash

    2. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've got a better idea. Have your legislators ensure they stay the hell out of your content. They aren't allowed to listen to your phone calls, wy the hhell should they be allowed to look at your data. Seriously ... if they suspect people of committing a crime, they should get a warrant.

    3. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by davester666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And by "aggregated and anonymised", they mean they will send all the records to the record labels grouped by address. They won't even send the DSL subscribers name to the record label. Promise.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if they suspect people of committing a crime, they should get a warrant.

      But that would involve due process and presumption innocence, and well, we can't have that now. What's next? Right to a fair trial?

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    5. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They aren't allowed to listen to your phone calls, wy the hhell should they be allowed to look at your data

      Yeah, and look at how well governments followed that law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy

      Any human rights documents from any western country (UK, US, Canada, etc) are quickly becoming no more than toilet paper.

      The only way we have to stop them is to make it physically impossible for them to trample our rights. Encryption is one way we can stop this abuse of power. Laws only get us so far when "national security" is on the line.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    6. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Any human rights documents from any western country (UK, US, Canada, etc) are quickly becoming no more than toilet paper.

      Isn't that an interesting coincidence that they all became this way at (relatively) the same time? You'd think that the ones who don't become this way would enjoy a degree of economic and social prosperity that would give them quite a competitive edge against the other nations.

      When are you guys going to wake up and realize that sovereign nations hardly exist anymore? If you want to understand who really pulls the strings of our puppet politicians, look no further than the global bankers, the ones who run the Federal Reserve and similar institutions that every major Western country has. These guys are the ones who decided that basic civil rights are inconvenient obstacles, and they have caused all of the Western nations to march in lockstep with their intentions. Their immediate goal is to run the USA into the ground both financially and legally, because the sovereignty of the USA and its "superpower" status is an obstacle to them. Their next step will be to group Canada, the USA, and Mexico into an American Union with one currency, called the Amero, and the arrangement will be quite similar to the EU except far less voluntary.

      You can say whatever you like about the problems caused by and shown by the USA. Right now, its sovereignty is about the only thing holding us back from a one-world government. The idea of a one-world government all by itself isn't that bad. The problem is that it's not being ushered in by popular demand or anything remotely resembling a democratic process. It's being ushered in by deception and manipulation.

    7. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Informative

      If they thought DPI was expensive, wait until they try real-time decryption

      Encryption can get you into trouble in the UK/

    8. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But unless client and server agree on a private key in advance, by offline means, a Man in the Middle can still proxy the key negotiation and access the plaintext.

    9. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well yeah but reading up it seems that A person in the middle may establish two distinct Diffie–Hellman key exchanges, one with Alice and the other with Bob, effectively masquerading as Alice to Bob, and vice versa, allowing the attacker to decrypt (and read or store) then re-encrypt the messages passed between them. A pre-arranged certificate could be used to exclude the man in the middle but then the client may proceed with the negotiation anyway (to get their stuff) and the cert can be comprimised if it is sent in the clear over the same link, ie, by apt-get or similar.

    10. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I fully agree. The rise of surveillance of telecommunications (of whatever method) in the West is getting a bit alarming. Ubiquitous encryption will become the standard I feel. We are moving towards a word where all new software, systems and protocols that get developed, will include encryption to a greater or lesser extent.

      It started with the widespread logging and monitoring of all phone calls entering and leaving the US after 9/11 (this really irritates me as a non-American - that my calls TO America are getting logged and possibly intercepted). Since then though I feel that it is the UK that is becoming the worst offender. AU and NZ are still pretty much surveillance-free ... although that's mostly a product of them being isolated and not having suffered a direct attack, rather than them having stricter protections against this kind of thing. I'm sure if there were an attack or threat there, there would be impetus to implement similar systems to the US/UK.

      So yeah, I would urge everyone to use encryption in their daily lives as much as they can. Of course, most of us have nothing to hide in this respect, but it's really the ~principle~ of the thing that is at stake here, rather than an actual need to encrypt. If we make it technically or financially unfeasible to monitor communications en masse, then Governments will be more reluctant to do it, and will return to concentrating on tapping into only particular, suspected communications, by way of a proper warrant. Like they ~should~ be doing.

    11. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by StripedCow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If we make it technically or financially unfeasible to monitor communications en masse, then Governments will be more reluctant to do it

      or... governments will switch to more radical forms of tapping, like pointing a directional microphone at your house...

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    12. Re:Time to encrypt everything. by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course, most of us have nothing to hide

      I hear that all the time and it's time to stop this lie by the surveillance fanatics once and for all.

      Of course we all have something to hide! It's called our private life. You have no business snooping around in it. Not if you're a cop, not it you're an ISP, not if you're god.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  8. Will they track their own usenet server? by Winckle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's a bit of a dilemma, they crack down on filesharing, yet run a free usenet server for their customers with alt.binaries included with 5 days retention.

    Will they issue a takedown to themselves?

    1. Re:Will they track their own usenet server? by Bandman · · Score: 2

      Frankly, I find it amazing that Usenet is still on anyone's radar. Even the alt.binaries groups. It's been a long time since I've found an ISP that includes a free usenet server. The reliable ones are the ones that you have to pay for, and honestly, if you're going to pay to pirate things, you're probably doing it wrong.

    2. Re:Will they track their own usenet server? by Bull_UK · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please dont mention use*** the last thing I want is for them to realise they still have it.

    3. Re:Will they track their own usenet server? by zwei2stein · · Score: 3, Funny

      Usenet is filesharing Usenet is free movies Usenet is porn Usenet is new p2p to go Usenet is torrent replacement Usenet is rapidshare in steroids. Usenet rocks for music, mp3 Usenet manga anime naruto. Usenet mininova Usenet thepiratebay.

      I hope you do not mind mentioning Usenet along with few unimportant keywords and phrases. Its not like this will show on google. You are quite safe :)

      --
      -- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
  9. No one believes the promise of anonymity by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I guess I'll fill in some space down here because slashdot will not likely let me post a subject-only comment, but seriously, what more needs to be said? I can't believe they are even saying that with a straight face. Governments barely have anyone or anything to answer two when they lie to people. Businesses like Virgin media most certainly do not. The only thing that their bullshit proves is that they are aware of what the public response will be and that they are afraid of it at some level.

  10. Could this cause legal problems for them? by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok. They're monitoring their customers for illegal file sharing, even going so far as to identify whether or not the copied material has been licensed by the copyright holders. Does this not make them guilty of contributory infringement? They are providing the networks which allow users to infringe copyright. They know that infringement is taking place via their deep packets inspection, down to the level of individual acts of infringement. Then they are destroying data which can identify infringers, but they continue to provide them with networks service. How is this legal?

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    1. Re:Could this cause legal problems for them? by d36 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      because they have enough money to buy the government?

    2. Re:Could this cause legal problems for them? by Xest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, I think it's actually illegal, but for different reasons. From what I can tell this is exactly why the UK is facing legal procedings from the EU over Phorm.

      It's effectively a breach of the European Declaration of Human Rights which we are signatories to, specifically it is a clear breach of the right to privacy.

      I think realistically this will end up in European courts. It wont end up in British courts or be looked into by the police here because they are merely puppets of the Labour government here which supports this as demonstrated by the new supreme court refusing to hear McKinnon, the refusal of investigations into Phorm even though it was blatantly illegal and so on.

      Nowadays in Britain we have to rely on the European courts for any semblance of justice on these sorts of things, but on the upside they do generally rule in favour of the citizen on things like this where it is a clear breach of law. God knows where we as citizens of Britain would be if it weren't for Europe, I'd imagine it would resemble something like Germany circa 1937. In fact, there's a certain irony in that whole sentence, how times change eh?

  11. Encrypt by some_guy_88 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everything.

    1. Re:Encrypt by dbIII · · Score: 3, Funny

      Everything.

      Ok
      cewqqwavkbqfycpligfbnoppilrsbmfDshcaswlpgjxyeuwhkz2gejdtx6wzhutcofalcwTl

    2. Re:Encrypt by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's what she said!

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  12. misnomer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Judging by their behaviour they should probably rebrand themselves Whore Media.

  13. Implied by Shadyman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Virgin Media emphasised that records will not be kept on individual customers and that data on the level of copyright infringement will be aggregated and anonymised."

    For Now. Later? Who knows.

  14. Re:What sort of overhead would be need to encrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    openssl speed aes-128-cbc aes-256-cbc

    type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
    aes-128 cbc 93137.34k 124663.87k 140590.61k 144921.90k 145808.33k
    aes-256 cbc 60556.97k 91740.58k 103621.96k 107994.02k 108521.49k

    Those benchmarks are on a 3 year old CPU (single core only). Hence encryption is not a limiting factor for end users - instead, network bandwidth is the limiting factor. I'd argue that encryption isn't a limiting factor for mass data surveillance either. In public anonymous networks without any sort of trust between users, encryption is not overly beneficial.

    Some reasoning why:

    1) You can rotate your taps between your customers so that they may only be monitored twice a year for a day at a time. You're still going to catch MANY people this way. And for the stated purpose of this system they're installing, they're apparently only after statistics (I doubt anyone is stupid enough to believe this though). For statistical (and scare tactic) purposes, taking small samples from different customers at different times is just as effective as maintaining a 24/7 tap on everyone's connection.

    2) The eavesdropper can bulk purchase cheap dedicated ASIC chips that are optimised for decryption of encrypted file sharing traffic. End users have to put up with CPUs that are designed for other purposes and thus they have to spend more per encrypted byte than the eavesdroppers do per decrypted byte.

    3) Imagine an eavesdropper that plants 1000's of fake monitoring peers onto the network. These peers would be indistinguishable to you from other legitimate anonymous peers on the other side of the world. These fake monitoring peers would behave exactly like any other legitimate peer would, except that they make a record of who is downloading files.

    No matter what technical solution you use (such as encryption), at the end of the day you're still communicating and sharing with random anonymous people on the internet. You haven't established any sort of trust with them. Without trust, that other party in your communication could just as likely be a fake monitoring peer.

  15. In Other News... by florescent_beige · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All public and private communications of all executives of companies in the UK valued at 500 million or more will be monitored for illegal, unethical, and undesired behaviour.

    "If we had only known what certain Wall Street bankers had been up to the world could have avoided financial losses in the trillions. In a world of high speed communication and free flowing capital, the expectations of privacy have to be balanced against the interests of all stakeholders." said noted expert florescent_beige.

    --
    Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
  16. Re:Is any form of trivial encryption sufficient? by Totenglocke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're assuming that the RIAA/MPAA/ISP's/governments care about the law -- they don't.

    --
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  17. Re:Packet Inspection by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they can tell what files I'm sending over an encrypted VPN link, then they have some impressive technology indeed.

    At the risk of being branded a tinfoil-hat wearing nutcase, my employer used to use CIPE for a VPN between two offices. At the time I started, CIPE had already been discredited as being fundamentally insecure but nobody really thought it was going to be intercepted unless you had pissed off a government somewhere.

    Then we had a problem. SIP traffic of any description going over that VPN link didn't make it across. (Kind of important when your employer produces SIP software).

    Everything else made it fine. And there wasn't a firewall on the traffic going over the VPN. But SIP? Nope, ethereal on both ends proved that what went in one end didn't make it out the other - and it wasn't random packet loss. Just one protocol. The only plausible explanation we could think of was that someone was intercepting and decrypting traffic in real time and filtering what they didn't like.

    We stopped using CIPE shortly after that.

  18. Re:This won't work by sammydee · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most clients use encryption by default, but will accept plaintext incoming connections yes. It's fairly easy to configure your torrent client to only allow encrypted connections if you are feeling paranoid.

    Deep packet inspection does not extend to joining swarms with a modified client. At least I'd hope not...

  19. Re:How do you suggest we do this? by Toy+G · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is an evolutionary process. Browsers and http servers didn't all support HTTPS from the very beginning, but serious ones gradually accepted it as a critical part of the web infrastructure, and now you wouldn't dream to do ecommerce on HTTP.
    The same is slowly happening for other applications where secrecy and data integrity increasingly get to be seen as essential. Pretty much all serious torrent clients already support encryption, but they haven't switched off "legacy" support in their default configurations yet. It will take for a "big country" (like France or the UK) to start seriously enforcing laws through DPI for plaintext-mode to be disabled by default. Then they will start doing the "mediasentry thing", impersonating peers etc etc, which is where webs of trust will come into play. Until someone will come up with a better business model for producing and distributing entertainment, making loads of bucks and showing the old cartels as irrelevant.

    We predicted all this a decade ago, and it's happening exactly as we thought it would: centralized nets -> decentralized nets -> decentralized and encrypted nets -> decentralized, encrypted and trusted nets. Cat&mouse will continue. It will take another decade or so to get rid of this particularly evil sort of candlemakers we now call "the entertainment industry", because they wasted the current one on doomed strategies.

    --
    -- Let's go Viridian.