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Best PC DVR Software, For Any Platform?
jshamacher writes "I've used MythTV for several years (first on Slackware, now via Mythbuntu) and it's good. But not great — I have a list of annoyances as long as my arm. For example, even 0.22 still has problems playing many DVDs and I frequently have to fall back on Xine. Since upgrading to new hardware, I've had issues with sound dropping out; these problems only occur for Myth, not for anything else. So now I'm trying out alternatives. Freevo seemed promising when I tried it a few months ago but it had its own issues. I'm also increasingly getting pressure from my family to get things like NetFlix streaming working on this machine. This seems to imply migrating to a Windows-based solution. I threw XP on it and tried MediaPortal but could never get that to control my Motorola cable box via the IR blaster. So my questions to you: What DVR software do you use? Are you happy with it? What don't you like? Are there any packages out there that 'just work' as media hubs and for time-shifting cable TV?"
When I was looking at making a media center box a while back I was looking at Snapstream which is Windows based software that seemed to support a lot of the Happague DVR cards and remotes. Since then I decided I didn't need the actual DVR function as much as just a box to stream SD videos from my PC to my TV so I took my old XBox and softmodded it to XBMC.
Only just started fiddling with it, but it looks incredible. Always find it odd it doesn't get more mention when these topics arise.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Just make sure you get the clock set first
I use Sage TV (http://www.sage.tv/) on XP (If you're going to end up going that route anyways). It's been pretty reliable and I like the interface. I've also considered moving to Windows 7. I hear the media center functionality built in is pretty robust.
If you have a Mac, Elgato's EyeTV product keeps getting better and better with each release. There are open source add-ons for commercial skipping, exports to iTunes/iPod, ect and the interface is pretty user friendly. It won't do Netflix by itself, but if you're hooking up a media PC then you've already got access to Netflix.
Windows Media Center, specifically Vista media center, has worked out well for me. I got a cheap ($250), refurbed gateway that came with a dual tuner card and Vista home premium. The listings are occasionally flakey, and the scheduled recordings won't automatically adjust if shows are pre-empted by football games running long. I control everything through the xbox360 using a $10 remote I bought on ebay. Very user friendly and cheaper than heck.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
I like the freedom of MythTV, I've been running it for about 4 years now, but it can often be tricky to get working if there is a problem. Particularly if there is a MySQL problem when I don't have a great deal of expertize in database administration. I'd like to take advantage of the new cable-card hardware coming out for high definition too.
Right now it pretty much seems either windows media center or giving in and getting a TiVO, but I'm curious about some of the other things out there like Sage TV. Sadly, not everything is available online right now without having to go to bit-torrent, especially high-def content.
I set up Windows Media Center on Vista and I like the way it works. It's pretty simple to use and set up. I bought a 2 tuner card for it so I can record 2 shows simultaneously. Even more useful is the integration with Amazon UnBox and Video On Demand. It just works. Makes trips to the video store extraneous. I haven't tried Netflix as I want simple on demand outside of my cable box. This machine is set up in the living room, and is hooked up to a 37 inch panel. I bought the overpriced remote for Media Center and that works well too (although the kids keep losing it) Overall, I'm happy with the quality, and plan on upgrading to Windows 7 at some point, but really don't have a need as it simply works well now.
Now, cue the MS Haters and mod me down. I know, I know... I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about.
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
The Original Questioner asks " So my questions to you: What DVR software do you use? Are you happy with it? What don't you like? Are there any packages out there that 'just work' as media hubs and for time-shifting cable TV?"
I realize that the TITLE says "PC based DVR software" and the questioner certainly mentions only that, but they don't mention commercial solutions at all, so I'll throw in my answer:
TiVo
I have a Series3 that I bought with a lifetime contract ~2 years ago. I do not pay a monthly fee, and as of now, I am "saving" that cost (the lifetime contract covers ~ 2 - 2.5 years of monthly service fees).
- It has two built in tuners.
- It integrates with most IR remotes.
- It can be controlled via IP (there are free remotes for iPhone/IPod and other devices to control it, etc.)
- TiVo maintains a web site where you can log in and tell your DVR to record something.
- Any Internet enabled TiVo (Series3, TiVoHD, TiVoHD-XL) can also hook into AmazonVideo, Netflix and Blockbuster accounts.
- It also passes "the wife" test.
Outside of initial setup (when we were on cable TV and I had to get TWC to come out and put CableCards in the thing), the ONLY maintenance I've had to do is reset its listings when we decided to drop cable completely and switch to using an Over-The-Air antenna, and changing the batteries in the remote.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
The nice thing about a completely open and flexible system is that you can route around it's quirks with other tools. The fact that you can just drop in xine or mplayer is one of the key strengths of MythTV and would likely be necessary in any replacement. I've never gotten this fixation and insistence on using only MythTV for anything myth related. It doesn't have to be that way and that's kind of the point.
Play with MCE and Front Row and see for yourself. The grass may not necessarily be greener.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I'm still using MythTV for recording TV, but I'm currently selling off my MythFrontends.
For viewing I've switched to an LG BD390. Much less hassle, plays everything I've thrown at (including HD streams recorded by the MythBackend) via UPnP and also does NetFlix and YouTube streaming.
GBPVR works like an appliance should; easily, the first time, and always. You can write your own plug-ins and skins, or download them.
I used to use mythtv but now have upgraded to HD cable box with dual tuner pvr. It is the best option for ease of use. Skipping commercials isn't automatic but otherwise I think it is the best price/simplicity option.
The MythTV backend for recording TV is great, but the frontend is very rough around the edges, even after years of development. As a general media center, XBMC is fantastic; its support for playing DVDs, video files, and music is the best I've found on Linux. There's also a plugin for XBMC that gives it functionality as a MythTV frontend, and while it doesn't have quite the same range of capabilities as the official MythTV frontend, it nonetheless works well.
Unfortunately, there's no way you're going to be streaming Netflix movies in Linux, due to Netflix's DRM. The only way to do it is with a Windows box or using an embedded solution. I use an Xbox 360 for that.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
In years past I've used XBMC on the Xbox and Linux, then more recently Boxee and MediaPortal. I started wanting something that just worked, and was a bit easier to setup. I really like many of the Linux media programs, but they do take a bit of maintenance. So when the RC of Windows 7 came out I figured I'd give it a go. Once I found Media Browser (www.mediabrowser.tv), I was sold.
So reasons I think Windows 7 is the way to go.
1. Media Browser - Fantastic plug-in for media center. Almost as good as XMBC in it's prettiness and useability. Very impressive to show off to your friends and high Wife Acceptance Factor.
2. Easy - It took me about a week of fiddling after work to get it setup the way I wanted.. and I had no issues getting DTS HD or pass-through audio to work. Very easy to get hardware accelerated video to work with ATI. If you use windows 7, check out the antipack, gets your hardware accelerated video working fast, along with all your audio. (http://babgvant.com/blogs/andyvt/archive/2009/08/02/antipack-get-your-videos-working-without-destroying-your-pc.aspx)
3. Cheap Video card - I bought a Radeon 4350 off of Newegg, with passive cooling. Does 1080p video with 1 - 5% cpu usage.
4. NetFlix , Media Center has a NetFlix plugin, no HD video, yet.
5. Easy TV - Has a nice TV Guide, easy to make it work right. I do not have a cable card tuner for it yet, but Ati has on you can get off of ebay, and new models are coming out next year. Cable card tuner would eliminate your ir blaster issue. In the mean time there are a few MS Media Center remotes that come with ir blasters. Also TV shows go right into Media Browser.
As this is slashdot I bet I will get spammed for saying so, but IMHO it is the best all around system out there right now.
Lifehacker likes XBMC (http://lifehacker.com/5105649/hive-five-winner-for-best-media-center-application-xbmc). I use an Apple TV running XBMC and Boxee, which works pretty well, but is kind of slow. I'm planning on picking up one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103234&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Desktop+PC-_-Acer+America-_-83103234) to replace the apple tv. Not sure what I'm going to run on it yet. I hear the Windows 7 media center is pretty nice, actually
While we're on the topic - is there a good solution for recording HD from cable? I'm currently using analog cable with a Hauppauge card to record programs in standard definition. Potential solutions:
1) DVR from cable company. Problems: I've gotten anecdotal information that these DVR's have poorly designed UI's and tend to be somewhat flaky (worse than Windows). Also, they are a closed system, I can't move the recording to a mobile device for portable viewing.
2) PC + HD ATSC / Clear-QAM tuner card - this gives me the ability to record over the air broadcasts and cable channels that support Clear-QAM (which is a fairly small subset of cable channels).
3) PC + HD Tuner Card + Cable Card - does anyone make one of these? Anyone have any experience with this?
[Insert pithy quote here]
Sage TV, Beyond TV, and Media Center are all mature products that work well on Windows.
Media Center is very "Microsoft-y", and it's not as configurable as the others. The upside is that it's seamlessly integrated with Windows, and it passes the WAF test rather well.
Sage TV is a tinkerer's dream, but I never managed to get it successfully up and running with QAM channels mapped.
Beyond TV was my favorite for a long time, as it's both configurable and stable. The only problem is that Snapstream has slowed active development of the consumer product. Their prime focus is on developing for the Enterprise market. (Think one server, recording a dozen news channels at once, extracting closed-caption information to create a searchable database.) BTV has one great bonus feature: It can automatically re-compress video down to H.264 and drop the show in to iTunes as a Podcast. This is pretty slick, since it lets you save several TV shows to your iPod or iPhone and take them with with you.
BTV and Sage can both record HD through the Hauppauge HD-PVR, and all 3 can record ClearQAM content (usually your local TV stations.)
Windows 7 Media Center will also record encrypted QAM cable with a CableCard, but the CableCard capture devices aren't quite ready for public consumption yet; I believe the ATI box's firmware is still in closed beta, and the Ceton device will hit the market early next year. (The Ceton card will record 4 SD or HD shows at the same time.)
BTV and Sage can control your cable box with a USB-UIRT or MCE Remote (with an IR blaster). Media Center will only control your box with an MCE remote/blaster. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W5GK5C/ref=ox_ya_oh_product">Amazon has one for about $40 that works well.</a>
BTV and Sage both can also stream live video to other PC's on the network. Media Center can only play back pre-recorded video; if you want to watch live TV an another PC, that PC needs a tuner card.
A HUGE warning about the Tivo:
Tivo lists show transferring is a big feature but...
EVERYTHING worth watching on cable is DRM'd. EVERYTHING.
It bugs me that they advertise this as a feature.
Blame Time Warner, Cox, Comcast, whoever you want, but the TIVO does not transfer anything but your fox, nbc, and cbs channels.
Analogy:
- Ford makes a car that can't drive over speed bumps
- Ford advertises the car jumping speed bumps
- After buying the car, Ford tells you to drive on limited roads or YOU can call your local town hall to fix every speed bump in town. Ford has no responsibility, and will not assist in any way.
Only 2 months left on my contract, and I'm done with this scam.
Because neither one records live tv?
Or lets you run your own apps?
commercial skipping that does not even require a remote button press. That is the killer feature for me with MythTV and why I keep using it. I also have diskless frontends and when I want a new one I can just plug it in and it just works. And then there is the web interface that I can use to program recording shows from anywhere. I agree with other posters with just using xine or another player for playing DVD's and it not being a bad thing. You can send args to xine to surpress the splash screen and everything else and then seamlessly fall back to MythTV when you hit "end" on the remote so I don't see the problem. As for streaming, I got a blue ray player that has netflix streaming (a roku box would work and be cheaper). All of this is controlled with one universal remote. If you want flexiblity you get it with myth. If you constantly tinker and upgrade, you will always be tinkering with myth, but you can also choose to set it up and just use it. From everything I have seen, MythTV's flexibility beats everything else I have tried (to the point where people are using other solutions like xmbc as a part of their MythTV solution).
I have two PC based DVR's in the house. I've used several peices of software over the years and Sage TV has been the best. The UI is IMO much easier to use that Win MCE. It has the basic functions(record, play, ff/rw TV) as well as DVD playback, audio, pictures and other Video files. Its audio and video playback is limited to the codecs you have loaded. Native it will search and stream youtube videos. Their are several user created addons to enhance the look and feel as well as functions. Their is a new addon that connects to the playon software that will give you netflix and hulu streams from within sage. The software can be setup in client/server mode so that all of your cable box's and other hardware can be in another room and you just have either a PC or their media extender in the living room. It works well with Hauppague's HD-PVR for HD recording from a cable box via the analog HD component out. www.sagetv.com be sure to check their forums.
I've had TiVos for years and years and years. I have a Series 3 now. I love it.
But if you want a truly PC based solution, how about Nero LiquidTV? It is basically the official PC version of the TiVo software. It still needs a TiVo subscription, but it has all the features and the same fantastic interface.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I use:
4) Cablebox with Firewire output + firewire port on PC.
It works really quite well.
Cable companies are required to offer cable boxes with firewire (usually the HD ones all come with it). However, depending on your cableco, the firewire output may or may not be encrypted. You can only connect it to your PC if it is not encrypted.
Note that the presence or absence of encryption on the Firewire output is *totally independent* from whether the data is encrypted on the cable line. The cable box decrypts the signal with its cable card, and possibly re-encrypts it for the firewire output, depending on the cableco's settings.
For me (with RCN Boston), I've found that all the extended-basic channels are sent unencrypted over the firewire output, except, paradoxially, *sometimes* the HD OTA channels. I dunno what's up with that, but my solution was to just not go through the cable box for those channels. I don't subscribe to premiums, so I don't know whether they are encrypted or not. Your mileage may of course vary, depending on provider and possibly even region.
WHS + MEDIA CENTER + XBOX 360 = Done. Time shift TV, HD quality Netflix, Media storage and streaming to any xbox, PS3, laptop, desktop, or windows mobile phone. It just works. No tinkering.
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
Under the main television that we watch is a PS3, which sees the backend as a UPnP media server without any fuss. All recorded programs show up under the "video" menu. Any machine in the house can also be used as a frontend, if Mythfrontend is installed. Mythweb can be used to configure it remotely (even off-site if I'm feeling brave enough to let incoming conections to it from the outside world) so you can log in and set something to record if you are out and about.
I'm really happy with the system and not got any particular moans, other than the fact that tuners don't just work out of the box and forums have to be read ...
I've been using Snapstream BeyondTV for 4 years. I started first with a Hauppauge SD tuner card. I now have a Happaugue HD-PVR, a Motorola HD FiOS box and change channels with a USB-UIRT. The Motorola HD box connects the HD-PVR with component video and optical SPDIF cables. The HD-PVR connects to my Win7-x64 system via USB.
.tp) which uses about 3.6 GB per hour on the HD-High quality setting. These files are readily burned to a Blu-ray disk without re-encoding. The system is completely seamless.
BeyondTV downloads the TV guide, manages the recording schedule and controls the HD-PVR and Motorola HD box with the USB-UIRT. The recording format is an H.264 transport stream (the file type is
My next step is to configure a DLNA enabled LG Blu-ray player in my living room to which I can stream the recorded files.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
++ as far as tivo's actual DVR functionality.
if pytivo thinks you have an HD Tivo, it won't change the resolution at all (it does transcode to mpeg2). The series3 will scale the video itself (and it has a pretty good scaler chip in my experience).
If it thinks you have a series2, it will change the res, presumably to 640x480 but i haven't checked. Perhaps you misconfigured it so it thought you had a series2.
pytivo tries to detect if your file uses a supported codec (includes ac3), and just copy the audio stream if so; otherwise it transcodes, but the default transcoding target is in fact AC3.
I *have* had problems with 5.1 sound not being properly mixed down to stereo (yeah, yuck, but it's what i had until recently). The center channel was always sent to one speaker or the other. not sure if it's pytivo (ffmpeg really, it does the transcoding) or the tivo that causes this. I haven't really tried to debug it.
it is under active development and the devs seem to pay attention to support requests on the forums, so i'd suggest you give it another shot.
you need to make sure you have a good ffmpeg build. this can be non-trivial; the one that comes with your linux distro may not be good/new enough. the pytivo forums have links to win32 binaries that work for most people. If you're on a mac or bsd, try the ffmpeg-devel port rather than the ffmpeg port.
pytivo recently gained the ability to stream from DVD images. I haven't tested this but i suspect it works fine.
I like pytivo a lot, the only issue i have with it is speed. I have this cpu (1.9GHz dual-core athlon) and it's not fast enough to transcode hi-def in realtime.
you xfer the program and it dribbles through and you can watch it later.
More importantly, i've tried pre-transcoding and just transferring the mpeg-2 stream (pytivo will not transcode this at all), and the tivo (presumably) can't keep up, it still is a bit slower than realtime. That's annoying; i can pre-transcode or buy a faster cpu, but if the streaming just isn't fast enough then i'm kinda stuck. I am using 100Mbit wired ethernet, it's not some crappy wireless that's the issue. I haven't really investigated this.
I would give a strong thumbs up for BeyondTV (by snapstream). I have used it for several years and have not complaints. If you are looking for a DVR solution, look no further. In your requirements though, you elaborate on wanted a media hub, which IMHO is not a DVR. If you are looking to record and view TV, BeyondTV is awesome and much better than tivo. For one thing, they have smartskip which attempts to mark commercial breaks. It isn't perfect, but when it works it is a godsend.
More importantly, beyondtv passes the family test. My tech-n00b wife uses it, as well as my kids, including my 6 year old. With BeyondTV link you can also watch from other computers. That's where it really shines. One kid can be watching a show on the main TV while another has a laptop in the bedroom watching a different show.
You have to pay for the software, but there is no subscription. TV channel updates are reliable and accurate.
No - I don't work for snapstream - I'm just an extremely happy customer.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
It's non-free ($40US) Windows-only software but it serves NetFlix over your LAN via DLNA/uPnP...
http://www.playon.tv/playon/how-it-works
A tidy, secure-ish and affordable (if you use XP) solution might be to install it on a Windows VM running on your Linux server...one box still does all the serving and if the Windows VM gets pwned, you just bring it back from a backup in minutes. The VM will have a separate IP via its virtual network adapter so it shouldn't conflict with the host box. DRM might be an issue too but this could be a workable solution if you really want NetFlix in a non-Windows environment...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel