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Ambassador Claims ACTA Secrecy Necessary
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "According to Ambassador Ron Kirk, the head of US Trade Representatives, the secrecy around the ACTA copyright treaty is necessary because without that secrecy, people would be 'walking away from the table.' If you don't remember, that treaty is the one where leaks indicate that it may contain all sorts of provisions for online copyright enforcement, like a global DMCA with takedown and anti-circumvention restrictions, three-strikes laws to terminate offending internet connections, and copyright cops. FOIA requests for the treaty text have been rebuffed over alleged 'national security' concerns. One can only hope that what he has said is true and that sites like Wikileaks will help tear down the veil of secrecy behind which they're negotiating our future."
If it's an international treaty, then why is the secrecy a "national security" matter?
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(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
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Just saying that such a statement seems like a quiet -- yet deniable -- way to ask folks to tear down the secrecy. If he really wanted it to survive, you'd assume he'd be a tiny bit more subtle than, "If this shit is known, this treaty is fucked."
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
That would be a bad thing? How exactly?
Home fucking is killing prostitution.
Otherwise people would know the extent and bounds of the laws, and avoid breaking them.
Police states need lots of secret laws.
If the contents of this treaty are so abhorrent that politicians cannot survive being associated with it, then that seems like a great reason why everyone should walk away from the table.
Alphanos
I'll be glad when we have a new president!
Should any draft treaty in Copenhagen be published as it goes, along with all views from all the parties and what they are willing to agree to or not through the negotiations?
As in any other area of life, this is yet another example of "when you want something then create moral laws that give it to you, but when those laws don't work in your favour then forget them".
If people will walk away from the table if they become associated with the effort, then what does it tell you about the effort?
It tells me that ACTA is something that companies want to increase their profits without the bad publicity of trying to throw their "customers" in jail.
Perhaps it's better if we stopped the charade here.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I am an American Citizen. Not a taxpayer. Not a consumer. A citizen.
My government no longer has my consent to government. I only obey laws out of fear of punishment, not because I believe that such behaviors is correct and moral.
I feel that those who represent us in this country have long ago forgotten the best interests of those they serve, the People, or more correctly, have just decided that it's more profitable serving Corporations and sacrificing essential freedoms for temporary security and monetary reward.
The only way this kind of stupidity and evil will end is with revolution. From time to time the Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants, or however the exact original goes.
The Government's only purpose is to serve the people, to do for them what they as individuals cannot do for themselves: Infrastructure, Sanitation, Hospitals, and Emergency Services springing immediately to mind.
The Government of the United States has increasingly grown bloated, incompetent, and has increasingly sold out the rights of its Citizens to corporate interests.
We were once the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave. Now we are the land of timid sheep, beholden to our corporate masters, constantly sacrificing our necessary freedoms to protect Children who would better be protected by their parents actually doing their job and parenting, and to protect us from Foreign threats caused by our own meddling in the affairs of other nations.
It's time to realize that the problem is not whether the politician in the White House is Black or White, Male or Female, Democrat or Republican or Independent.
The problem is that there is a politician in the White House, instead of a Citizen-Servant who is First Among Equals, not elevated to the status of Royalty.
We must abolish the Federal Government as it currently stands and return to the ideals of the Founding Fathers on which they attempted to create a nation: The Inalienable Rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
No one should have the right to restrict my freedom to do as I wish so long as I do not materially harm another human being.
Down with the Tyrants.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
On one hand, I see why a treaty like ACTA might be desirable to establish a common copyright law across all nations. Especially given how much copyright infringement is going on between nations and how hard it is to enforce laws nationally when the economy and the access is global. I can also understand that they may not want to disclose the nitty-gritty of the treaty until they have a lot of the kinks worked out so that parts that will get changed aren't attacked and destroy hope for the treaty ever being passed in any form.
However, everything I've heard about it, admittedly "leaked", is terrible. They're using the secrecy of the process to hide the severeness of the treaty rather than "working out the kinks". Also, the treaty seems very much focused on protecting America's corporate copyrighted interests rather than respecting the authors and the people who use the author's works. This is a huge opportunity to fix our system, but instead it's being used to make everyone else's more broken.
It worked because 200 years ago the only people who had say in gov't were wealthy white land owning men. A fairly homogeneous class that didn't have too many internal divisions. Now-a-days we have a huge spectrum of voters which makes it much harder to agree on anything.
Blar.
... and though most of us won't want it, most of us won't really do or say anything until our friends, family, and selves, are spending time in jail or paying huge fines for actions we generally thought were harmless.
Like the opinion machine on TV is gonna spin it any other way than 'we need it, you just don't know it'.
Okay, so the text *is* shown to corporate lobbyists, but *not* to the public?
He's worried about people walking away from the table? No kidding. People *should* walk away from such a table!
see a Text Widget
In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible.
George Orwell
Secrecy is necessary to plan the indefensible; what's rare is the Ambassador's honesty in admitting it.
What do the negotiations matter? The politicians, or most of them, aren't usually involved in negotiations anyways. What counts is the ratification. That's where the politicians wear it.
Well, ratification would count, except that in the U.S., ACTA is being negotiated as an executive agreement, and thus doesn't require ratification by Congress.
A few Congresspeople have sent a letter to Obama expressing their concern over the secrecy of the treaty, but others are just parroting the line about protecting American business and innovation, etc.
I agree there are good reasons for some negotiations to be kept private, then ratified later. However, when there is no ratification, the negotiation is entirely secret and simply presented to us as a fait accompli, where is the opportunity for public involvement and comment?
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
I just wrote the President, I urge you to do the same. I think they deserve to get slashdotted in that way. Tell them what you think and that there Is interest in the topic and that you have an opinion. Then they have some more information on which to base a decision, especially when you think that this is an issue that effects all the people.
What I am concerned about is that this looks like an end run by another group that was seeking net non-neutrality. In this case the corporate owners of copyrights, here we know that it is not the singer song writter (like it ever was) that is being effected, or for that matter consulted. It appears as though big corporations, I suspect news and entertainment are a big part of it as well as software companies. That want to get a hand on the internet spigot to have prior-constraint control over information especiall information they feel they own. But then I suspect a handful of countries would love to have access to request internet connection be broken for filtered if they think the message is not what they want. That is being done in China now certainly and the some Middle Eastern countries. That is not a good trend. It would be like only being allowed to listen to Fox news all day, is it really fair and balanced and calling it news might be a stretch. And it is a small step from corporate control to a corporate state (or one that is corporate controlled).
The key here is the controls that are being hinted at may not be in the countries , or the worlds best interest. We need to know what they are contemplating before we as a people are committed to an action that effects our information infrastructure. We own it, not them. They forget that sometimes.
(b) This section does not apply to matters that are--
(1)(A) specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and (B) are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order;
People interpreted that as meaning national security, but it clearly means foreign policy in this instance.
When the FFII asked the EU Council of Ministers for opening up the documents regarding the ACTA negotiations, the Council refused, with (a.o.) the argument that this "might affect relations with the third parties concerned".
So the US can't release it because others might object, and the EU can't for the same reason. Inquiring minds want to know which mysterious third country is kicking both the US and the EU into submission. Canada?
Donate free food here
But I suppose you have to slam the black man, in case he slams your women, huh?
Typical, someone raises a question about what the government is doing, but because the president is black then anybody who questions him must be racist right? "You're a racist" is such an effective way to censor people these days.
I hope you recognize the irony of just how incredibly racist it is to call "racism" when nothing racist was even hinted at.
Asshole.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Well, ratification would count, except that in the U.S., ACTA is being negotiated as an executive agreement, and thus doesn't require ratification by Congress.
There are 3 types of treaties, "Treaties" proper, as defined under the Constitution requiring 2/3 Senate approval, congressional-executive agreements, which are negotiated by the Executive (President), and implemented by Congress by simple majority in both houses as if they were ordinary laws, and sole-executive agreements, which are negotiated and implemented by the Executive branch limited to the manners in which they have authority to do so (instructing the FBI not to enforce certain laws, for example). According to Wikipedia, the latter two types are often prefered because they lack the permanence of Constitutional treaties:
It is desirable, in many instances, to exchange mutual advantages by Legislative Acts rather than by treaty: because the former, though understood to be in consideration of each other, and therefore greatly respected, yet when they become too inconvenient, can be dropped at the will of either party: whereas stipulations by treaty are forever irrevocable but by joint consent...
--Thomas Jefferson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause
Certainly not me.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
There seems to be several issues here:
1) they say they keep it secret to make sure it gets passed.
2) but this has big problems that it denies the ordinary people who will need to follow the law a chance to tell what they think of it _before_ it gets passed.
3) in ideal world the people making decisions have done their homework and asked ordinary people and _all_ interest groups what they think of the law. This should be easy to implement via internet.
The secrecy is not a good thing. How can they decide who is worthy enough to modify the text of it?
You are pretty close to the mark.
Empires of Earth developed and evolved and eventually moved into an "economy based economy" and that's when their empires eventually fall -- people realize that it's a house of cards at that point... an economy that works only when people are in a "good mood."
Now we, in the U.S., are essentially at that point -- an economy based economy that only works when people are not panicking or doubting that the system actually works. (People who are paying close attention to the economic crisis must realize by now that the market is based on the mood of the traders...more specifically, that selling is better than buying at the moment.) So what do we do when the bottom is about to fall out of this economy based economy? Make laws to protect and support it of course!
I have an unlimited supply of data. I can copy and copy and copy it without loss or error. How can I get people to pay me for it? Make it illegal to do otherwise of course!
We are nearing a breaking point. What happens when things break? Who knows. But whether or not such treaties and supporting laws are passed, we will see the break.
We will lobby Congress to keep this law in the penalty box for 90 days (one senator on a filibuster) once it is revealed so that the layperson can review it.
The Roman Rule: The one who says it cannot be done shall not interrupt the one who is doing it.
The "private army" idea came about as part of the "peace dividend" for the most part. The US Army was pretty famous for an extremely high ratio of support personnel vs. guys with guns. The ratio following WW II was claimed to be as high as 12 to 1. Yes, this meant that for every one man with a gun facing the enemy there were 12 supply sergents, cooks, laundry people, etc. Somewhat absurd.
Well, with the cracking of the "peace dividend" it was decided that while these people were necessary it was no longer reasonable to have them as part of the direct US Army (or other branch of the services). So these were moved to being "civilian jobs" on military bases. This greatly reduced the military headcount and made things look much better come budget time. The only problem, of course, was that they continued the cuts down to base security and every detail that could possibly be done by someone other than uniformed military.
With the Iraq War, Version 1, we have the silly situation of there simply not being enough cooks, laundry staff, supply sergents, potato peelers, etc. Unlike around a military base in the US, hiring local Saudi staff was out of the question. Contractors to the rescue! All of this was "outsourced".
Come Iraq War, Version 2 we now have the need for sentries at gates. Can we increase the military headcount for this purpose? No. So now we have contractors with guns standing sentry duty. Security details for Iraqis was next. It all makes sense, in an odd twisted way once you understand how we got there. And for the most part, it was all a budget dodge and something that was supposed to make us believe the military was leaner, cheaper and more adapted to the post-Cold War era. In reality, nothing much has changed and the military is the same size it was.
Unfortunately, we have now pretty much reached the point where everyone pirates. Why not? You can't be caught - unless you are silly and decide to redistribute. Or try making an example out of yourself. Yes, trying to make a civil lawsuit into a political statement using university professors as defense counsel is probably a mistake.
The end result is that recorded music used to have value and today does not. Certainly not the value it once had. And in a few more years will clearly have zero value - because nobody will pay for it. Movies probably aren't too far behind unless something drastic changes. Software still has some clarity between "legit" and "pirated", but how much longer will that really stand? The BSA can't really enforce copyright on all software, only selected folks.
Look at it this way. If there is no clear distinction between free, pirates goods and expensive, licensed goods - and I believe there is none in nearly everyone's mind under 30 years of age - we have succeeded in taking a big stack of music, movies, books and software and transforming it from a thing of value into a thing with no value. In the US alone we are talking about billions of dollars a year going up in smoke.
Right now, there is nothing to suggest the pirates aren't going to win a complete victory. We have been training an entire generation that if it can be found on the Internet then it ought to be free. And if it isn't free at www.aaa.com but is at www.bbb.com there is nothing wrong with going to www.bbb.com and taking it. That pretty much describes the current P2P scene in a nutshell.
Today, the US and most of Western Europe are pretty much powerless to do anything about digital goods offered from folks based in Eastern Europe or Russia. So these are "safe havens" for distribution. Even some places in Western Europe have decided to turn a blind eye towards certain types of piracy.
If this continues, there will be global economic consequences. The "try before buying" idea is a joke. If I download a movie, watch it and delete it, why would I buy it? I saw it already. Same goes for just about everything else. The biggest thing the governments are worried about is not the billions (or tens or hundreds of billions) in lost revenue to companies but instead the billions lost in tax revenues from the sales of these products. Moving to an environment where entertainment is "user created" for free should be very frightening to governments as it means a huge reduction in tax revenues.
So in some ways, this can be thought of as being for the benefit of all society. Because the alternative is governments figuring out how to raise the same revenue in other ways. And don't think they won't be trying to get just a little bit extra while they are at it. In the US we are likely to be seeing 60% tax rates soon. For places like Canada and Sweden where they already have tax rates like that, look for 70% and 80% rates. Because entertainment is a huge chunk of everyone's economy and while entertainment may still exist in a zero-revenue environment, the taxes from it will be replaced. Somehow.
How can ACTA possibly be anywhere close to a 'national security' concern???? If you look at the excerpts so far, there is nothing there to even hint at it. The ONLY possible reason for the secrecy is they don't want people bringing up public furor over a 'world' copyright police act. If that drives countries away from it, then it probably isn't a good idea in the first place. To hide something so that the people can't have a say... sounds like Iran.
Ahh, yes. The somewhat lesser known, but still dangerous Balls of Damocles.
Of course, to get to that point (where it never existed), that means that someone has to have been caught under it, and successfully appealed their case before the Courts, all the way up to the SCOTUS if need be, and they need to agree that it is contrary.
What better way to revive your failing business models than by destroying competition by using a Secret "Government" Treaty that you have funded?
Who can blame the bloated record companies and overpriced distribution companies pushing DRM compromised media?
After all it wasn't them that slammed a repressive set of draconian laws down on once-free countries! It was their pawns the Congress! It was their pawn Obama!
So hurry to buy the wares of these companies and blind your eyes to the "special" new prices that have sprung up overnight (and that is part of the plan).
It's all just a special deal to make bigger fortunes more quickly for the rich - presumably with our bewildered cooperation.
And of course Obama feels it's Change We Can Believe in! Gotta love that man.