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Microsoft To Get Malware Bailout In Germany
hweimer writes "The German government plans on paying to set up a call center to help Windows users with malware infections. I think this has the effect of being a malware bailout for Microsoft, discouraging them and other software companies from writing better code and giving users little incentive to switch to more secure alternatives. How much government money is needed to run the call center is also not revealed." The call center, running in cooperation with ISPs (but not manufacturers), is envisioned to have a staff of about 40.
I think this has the effect of being a malware bailout for Microsoft, discouraging them and other software companies from writing better code and giving users little incentives to switch to more secure alternatives.
I have to disagree with that. Malware problem is usually because of user stupidity. Like any other OS, you can run Windows securely if you don't do stupid things.
The thing is, as we don't care so much about how to properly feed, exercise and clean ponies, normal people don't care so much about computer security. They just want to do their thing. But now they would have a place they know they can seek help from, and who are giving helpful instructions how to not get infected anymore and how to solve their problem. Maybe those hints stick, maybe not, but at least they can get help with the problem (without calling over our fellow slashdotters all the time!)
But what is an interesting piece in the article (and somewhat worry-some)
Before the plans are implemented, however, a decision needs to be made on what sanctions customers who decline to cooperate with their ISP can be subjected to. According to an eco project manager, quoted by the dpa, "Anyone surfing without proper anti-virus software is endangering other web users, in the same way that a car driver driving with faulty brakes is endangering other road users."
I'm sure Symantec will hurray for that, but I don't want someone push an av software down my throat that I don't even need. Even less on my linux server. I really hope it only means those users who have been identified by the ISP to be sending spam out.
But the bottom line is, it's not a "bailout" for Microsoft. Malware goes where the users and money are and any kind of better code or secure alternatives cannot go around user stupidity. Linux is mostly secure from malware because the users generally are more geeky than the casual users on Windows and don't just random stuff from the internet. Repositories also help with this, but if Linux ever gained any actual desktop marketshare and casual users, the 3rd party applications/games/whatever that people want would be downloaded from the internet just the same way as on Windows. But any (good) Linux sysadmin knows there been worms in Linux too and remote hacks are commonplace if the system isn't properly secured (and casual users just wont do that).
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Is this just a government make work project or something?
There is a war going on for your mind.
This has got to be one of the weakest arguments posted on Slashdot in recent memory. Thanks for the laugh
Is that Microsoft is introducing a new system, called Das Boot, which will allow you machine to boot up even if you drop it in the tub.
It should be funded by the ISPs. The ISPs should be free to charge end users rates based on the OS the end user is doing.
Like insurance rates for different drivers of different cars as end users present threats to the net based on their OS and experience the rates charged to support a malware elimination office should depend on what is being connected.
Step 1: Back up your data.
Step 2: Install SUSE Linux.
Step 3: Profit?
Step 4: Laugh at Microsoft. [schadenfreude here]
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
"Hi, I'm calling about malware on my PC"?
"Buy a Mac". <click>
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mod parent up please.
Unfortunately none of those calling in will be following the one step solution; stop going to German porn sites on a windows box.
With a staff of 40, they'll be swamped. I don't even work in IT, and I get 5-10 calls a week from family members and "friends" who want me to help them remove viruses and spyware from their machines (some I help, some I don't). Nobody will be able to get through, even with an automated system to help those who know at least a little about what to do.
"Malware problem is usually because of user stupidity."
....
Does that mean users of Apple computers are far smarter than users of Windows computers?
Anyhow, maybe when people call the call center number, they will hear, in German, "Dummy! Get Linux. Or, at least Apple."
That's a joke, but it could go in that direction. People at the call center could educate callers that the apparent reason Microsoft products have so many vulnerabilities is that Microsoft top managers don't allow Microsoft programmers to finish their work. Unfinished, vulnerable, buggy, limited software makes more money when a company has a virtual monopoly because then the company can sell "upgrades" and upgrades and upgrades and
I mean, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of lifetimes we as a species have already lost to Microsoft's pathetic security. The entire industry is about ten years behind where it would have been had we not had MS fighting virtually every innovation we now take for granted-- the Internet, multitasking, multiuser, open source, open standards, basic security (you don't try eating everything that looks like it'd fit in your mouth... why should you execute every piece of data you find on the internet, as Admin...).
We'd be much better off if we'd just sent them the same amount they profited without ever using their products. We'd have months of our lives back, and lower blood pressure.
...you get more of it.
The press release doesn't mention Microsoft. In fact it states that this new service is for all users with all operating systems. So while indeed 99% of all users run Microsoft, niche systems like Linux and Mac will be helped too. A good idea which will hopefully help improve internet safety for those users who just don't understand the technology they are using, but want to be on the net just like everybody else.
Does that mean users of Apple computers are far smarter than users of Windows computers?
Well duh. They picked Apple, didn't they?
Hmmm..... Neither headline nor summary fits the news. Nothing in the quoted article mentions windows. The article itself is focussing on a small aspect of what is being discussed. Some parts of the discussion would be very negative for Windows users. E.g. it is being discussed to disconnect users from the Internet who don't fix their PCs when attacks originate from them. I don't agree with a lot of things discussed, but they didn't do anything to deserve a /. summary like this.
CU, Martin
This is not a bailout for Microsoft, it's a bailout for German economy in order to decrease unemployment. Because exhausted call center employees will force government to hire more staff. If they aim to keep lines open for calls that would surely bring the unemployment in Germany to pre-recession levels.
I fail to see how government specific help around one specific product from one specific company, is not a bailout. They are reducing Microsoft support costs, pure and simple...
How would it fly if the government were spending money to pay for gas for one specific brand of car?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...they are too big to fail?
...giving users little incentive to switch to more secure alternatives.
...giving users little incentive to switch to more obscure alternatives.
Fixed that for you.
they aren't really reducing Microsoft's support costs much, if at all, because Microsoft doesn't give free phone support. You do need to pay for it. I assume that the amount they have you pay covers the costs of said support.
You can buy UIDs too.
Usually people go for those 3-digit UIDs but not everyone has the money for that.
Generally, if you have money to buy Apple products, you have a habit of solving your problems by shopping and you have money to spare.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
> Malware problem is usually because of user stupidity. Like any other OS, you can run Windows securely if you don't do stupid things.
I kinda agree.
It's stupid to run Windows.
So, if someone uses Windows -- that's a stupid thing to do.
Using Windows and doing complicated rituals to keep secure is even more stupid -- also because it's futile.
So there. Good night.
Malware is **not** badly written code. Badly written code is just bad code.
Malware is code written with explicit malevolent intent. And usually takes a hell of a lot more skill to write than a simple app, because it requires intimate
system knowledge and low level programming in order to avoid detection.
If malware == bad code, then all the coders in this world (except John Carmak) are guilty of writing malware at some point in out lives.
He who has not written bad code, throw the first stone.
Sorry, but helping the clueless or unfortunate users from something that wasn't created, distributed, or sanctioned by Microsoft isn't a Microsoft Bailout even if the users are running MS Windows.
If Macs were the big dog in the OS world, would you then be calling it an Apple Bailout?
By the way, don't buy into the apple myths. They have malware and bugs aplenty, they just don't have enough population density to encourage easy transmittal, or even be a tempting target for malware creators. Those scum want to get as many machines as possible, so only niche diehards or those who want to prove a point bother to infect anything with less than a 40% market share. Guess what that means... yeah, that's right, they go after Windows. If you flip-flop the percentages, you'll see a total shift in what they target. And that's not guesswork or rhetoric.
Personally I know of many reasons to complain about Microsoft, and Apple, and the Linux community. None are perfect, and all have nuts, fanatics, and total wackjobs. Pick your poison and learn how to use it safely.
That's quality humor son, not flamebait.
If you doubt my ID ownership read back as far as you like and I think you'll find a pleasing consistency of tone and thought.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Thank you for calling the malware eradication center. Please wait while we look up the address associated with the number you are calling from. Press # to manually enter an address."
...
"Your address has been located and your will receive your free ubuntu CD within 2 business days. Thank you and have a nice day."
Before you know it, they'll be making the trains run on time.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You can buy UIDs too.
Indeed, but why would I do so since I am perfectly happy with this one?
Unless, SuperKendall is really like the Dread Pirate Roberts. Confidentially, you just lost your spot in line there.
Generally, if you have money to buy Apple products, you have a habit of solving your problems by shopping and you have money to spare.
Oddly, I value my time (and UNIX) far more than money which is why I have Mac products to begin with. But do feel free to fritter your time away on "cheaper" PC's (that you buy twice as often) so that you can afford to buy a lower ID than mine and "win"!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Malware is not the same thing as viruses. No amount of security in the operating system will save the user from getting a malware infection if he clicks "Yes" to anything. Unless the OS is locked down to the point of not being able to install anything.
I've been cleaning up other people's infected Windows machines for longer than I have wanted to. It seems like nine times out of ten, the only way to ensure that the computer is clean after it gets infected is to do a complete pave and rebuild of the OS. That level of complexity isn't something that a tech support person can walk an average user through over the phone. Forget about backing up the data beforehand, or re-installing the applications after the fact.
I like the idea. The way that the article is worded is complete flamebait though. I think we can all agree that steps need to be taken to reduce the number of malware infected Windows boxes on the internet. Doing so makes the internet a better place for everyone. It just seems to me like the Germans are taking on an impossible task. Once a Windows box is owned, it stays owned.
On a related tangent, I think things could be better if ISPs institute the equivalent of a "good driver discount". Give the owners of clean computers a discount on their monthly service fee. I'm not an economist, but it seems like it would need to be enough of a discount to cover the cost of having a "professional" setup the computer right in the first place. I see advertisements where I live that claim to clean malware infected computers for $30-50. So a discount of $5 a month seems about right. On the other hand, if the discount isn't high enough, then the incentive won't be strong enough to encourage people to keep their computers clean. At that point maybe the ISPs need a stick, instead of a carrot. Perhaps throttling the connection, or re-directing to a subset of URLs for how to deal with malware infections.
On the contrary, its 'the people' just saying that the vendors are not doing enough! If you think for a minute that people are stupid, well you may be partially right, but they won't be that way forever. Once they realize it doesn't have to be that way (by talking to others that already know the truth) they will demand more before they spend their next dime. Talking to a person not a party to the software itself will certainly educate them. In this day and age the vendors need to make their products a lot better before the masses will just fork over all their money.
Maybe it should be set up in Munich they should have some clue about installing Linux.
Now I remember that I just recently had to cleanup somebody's computer and didn't install Linux. Damn, I have become so complacent.
Je me souviens.
First sensible thing said in this discussion.
Best solution for Windows malware extraction is to install Linux. Simple to install, setup, and use. Safe and secure for the masses. :)
how long are we going to put up with this corporate welfare? Bank bailout,subsidies for oil and gas companies, subsides for agribusiness etc. I need money, why can't I get it? I pay more in taxes than any of those scum bags.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
If we could, this idiotic rant would have been rightfully buried.
I have no such desire, especially if your past posts are worded as to piss people off.
Actually, they are designed to be funny - you see, I have "sense of humor" that allows me to laugh even if jokes were, say, targeting something I liked very much. So they are very much build in the spirit of being fun.
I have no desire to tailor posts to humorless starched-shirts such as yourself, so I'm pretty sure you would find my body of work to overload your delicate sensibilities and thus I would in fact avoid reading them, or frankly the internet altogether.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's barely enough service 20 windows machines!
Okay then - I'll start selling cars (car analogy FTW!)... I don't know anything about cars, but OTOH Microsoft doesn't know shit about Operating Systems, so aparently that's okay... I'll just sell cardboard cutouts and my government will pay for the fixes...
PROFIT!
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
"BSI"
I can't help but wonder if this might be a way for folks to be directed to Knoppix?
Why cant ISPS,FBI,CIA,Local law enforcement look for signatures the criminals use top send instructions to the bot nets. If its so easy to spy on our buying habits on line by advertisers i cant see why they don't use that same technology to catch criminals. Make the criminals pay for the cleanup,sell everything they own to finance it.
Jack of all trades,master of none
I'll provide my own bailout to the world and seed ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent a bit longer.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
fail to see how government specific help around one specific product from one specific company, is not a bailout.
However, that's not what the actual article (not the summary) discusses.
People at the call center could educate callers that the apparent reason Microsoft products have so many vulnerabilities is that Microsoft top managers don't allow Microsoft programmers to finish their work. Unfinished, vulnerable, buggy, limited software makes more money when a company has a virtual monopoly because then the company can sell "upgrades" and upgrades and upgrades and ....
What non-trivial software packages are you thinking of that *aren't* patched, upgraded and replaced over time ?
The purpose of the government is to uphold every citizen's inalienable rights; and it must be as small as it can be while remaining capable of fulfilling that purpose. No more, no less
I propose a different mission for government: in economist-lingo, to maximize social welfare (that is, the sum of how happy the population is).
And of course, the population should value freedom of {speech,assembly,press,etc.} very highly.
But---pregnant pause---there is such a thing as a market failure, and I think it makes good sense for the government to step in and make regulations that makes the market more competitive.
Observe that the societal material benefit of a free market comes about not because the market is free but because it's competitive.
If you're free to enter a market where you'll most certainly be crushed by the incumbent monopoly, what does that freedom really buy the society? But if the monopoly is prevented from using its monopoly status to crush you and has to compete reasonably fairly with you, you might have a shot at getting your better/cheaper product out to consumers.
If you're an American, you'll laugh at "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." I don't. I know there's something shady going on, in particular with travel funds for the EU which the MEPs aren't held much accountable for [long story, but the point is if you-an-MEP travel not-extremely-extravagantly, you can pocket a large wad of my tax money at the end of the year. Some politicians do.]. But I also believe politicians (from time to time) genuinely want to do good for the people and the nation.
Preferably as a managing director!
Because the first thing you will do, is tell every single calling user, how to remove the worst of all malware from his computer:
1. Download Linux CD/DVD.
2. Burn to disc. (Do not take the disk out).
3. Reboot.
4. Click OK or press Enter, until you see a desktop again.
I’m seriously considering to send them my job application for that very reason. Don’t care, even if I’m fired again. Been there, lived trough it, got on my legs again. Pfft. ^^
Besides, it would be a hell of a lot of fun.
Especially, if they’d decide to fire me anyway. Then I’d come barefoot, not showered or shaved all week, in trash clothes, at 10 am. And piss in the corner on the last day. ^^
I’m no approval junkie. And you can’t punish someone who got nothing to lose because it’s not worth anyting for him anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The Bush administration nobly stood up to the "anti trust" nonsense from the extreme left and allowed many smaller financial companies to merge into a small number of large financial companies that were too big to fail.
Thanks to saint Bush's great wisdom, the companies on Wall Street were too big to fail when the financial markets ran into trouble. If the far left had prevented all those mergers, then those companies would not have been too big to fail, and so they would have failed during the financial troubles that were caused by over-regulation of Wall Street by the communists in the Democrat party.
Thank god we had someone as smart as Bush in the White House back then.
[/strawman]
Windows XP had MAJOR problems during the first 3 years, before service pack 2. Vista had MAJOR problems; it was so bad most big companies refused to buy it.