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Microsoft To Get Malware Bailout In Germany
hweimer writes "The German government plans on paying to set up a call center to help Windows users with malware infections. I think this has the effect of being a malware bailout for Microsoft, discouraging them and other software companies from writing better code and giving users little incentive to switch to more secure alternatives. How much government money is needed to run the call center is also not revealed." The call center, running in cooperation with ISPs (but not manufacturers), is envisioned to have a staff of about 40.
I think this has the effect of being a malware bailout for Microsoft, discouraging them and other software companies from writing better code and giving users little incentives to switch to more secure alternatives.
I have to disagree with that. Malware problem is usually because of user stupidity. Like any other OS, you can run Windows securely if you don't do stupid things.
The thing is, as we don't care so much about how to properly feed, exercise and clean ponies, normal people don't care so much about computer security. They just want to do their thing. But now they would have a place they know they can seek help from, and who are giving helpful instructions how to not get infected anymore and how to solve their problem. Maybe those hints stick, maybe not, but at least they can get help with the problem (without calling over our fellow slashdotters all the time!)
But what is an interesting piece in the article (and somewhat worry-some)
Before the plans are implemented, however, a decision needs to be made on what sanctions customers who decline to cooperate with their ISP can be subjected to. According to an eco project manager, quoted by the dpa, "Anyone surfing without proper anti-virus software is endangering other web users, in the same way that a car driver driving with faulty brakes is endangering other road users."
I'm sure Symantec will hurray for that, but I don't want someone push an av software down my throat that I don't even need. Even less on my linux server. I really hope it only means those users who have been identified by the ISP to be sending spam out.
But the bottom line is, it's not a "bailout" for Microsoft. Malware goes where the users and money are and any kind of better code or secure alternatives cannot go around user stupidity. Linux is mostly secure from malware because the users generally are more geeky than the casual users on Windows and don't just random stuff from the internet. Repositories also help with this, but if Linux ever gained any actual desktop marketshare and casual users, the 3rd party applications/games/whatever that people want would be downloaded from the internet just the same way as on Windows. But any (good) Linux sysadmin knows there been worms in Linux too and remote hacks are commonplace if the system isn't properly secured (and casual users just wont do that).
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Is this just a government make work project or something?
There is a war going on for your mind.
"Hi, I'm calling about malware on my PC"?
"Buy a Mac". <click>
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Unfortunately none of those calling in will be following the one step solution; stop going to German porn sites on a windows box.
Yes very much so! Since this is publicly funded, there should be a different system. Imagine if users accumulated "demerit" points for bad computer practise and getting their computers infected, resulting in ISPs charging them more. This might actually help to encourage people to educate themselves better too. Of course, like with driving, it could be lessened with good behaviour over time, or using antivirus.
With a staff of 40, they'll be swamped. I don't even work in IT, and I get 5-10 calls a week from family members and "friends" who want me to help them remove viruses and spyware from their machines (some I help, some I don't). Nobody will be able to get through, even with an automated system to help those who know at least a little about what to do.
I mean, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of lifetimes we as a species have already lost to Microsoft's pathetic security. The entire industry is about ten years behind where it would have been had we not had MS fighting virtually every innovation we now take for granted-- the Internet, multitasking, multiuser, open source, open standards, basic security (you don't try eating everything that looks like it'd fit in your mouth... why should you execute every piece of data you find on the internet, as Admin...).
We'd be much better off if we'd just sent them the same amount they profited without ever using their products. We'd have months of our lives back, and lower blood pressure.
...you get more of it.
The press release doesn't mention Microsoft. In fact it states that this new service is for all users with all operating systems. So while indeed 99% of all users run Microsoft, niche systems like Linux and Mac will be helped too. A good idea which will hopefully help improve internet safety for those users who just don't understand the technology they are using, but want to be on the net just like everybody else.
Does that mean users of Apple computers are far smarter than users of Windows computers?
Well duh. They picked Apple, didn't they?
Step 1: Back up your data. Step 2: Install SUSE Linux. Step 3: Profit? Step 4: Laugh at Microsoft. [schadenfreude here]
schadenfreude
I got this part:
schadenfreude
Hmmm..... Neither headline nor summary fits the news. Nothing in the quoted article mentions windows. The article itself is focussing on a small aspect of what is being discussed. Some parts of the discussion would be very negative for Windows users. E.g. it is being discussed to disconnect users from the Internet who don't fix their PCs when attacks originate from them. I don't agree with a lot of things discussed, but they didn't do anything to deserve a /. summary like this.
CU, Martin
This is not a bailout for Microsoft, it's a bailout for German economy in order to decrease unemployment. Because exhausted call center employees will force government to hire more staff. If they aim to keep lines open for calls that would surely bring the unemployment in Germany to pre-recession levels.
I fail to see how government specific help around one specific product from one specific company, is not a bailout. They are reducing Microsoft support costs, pure and simple...
How would it fly if the government were spending money to pay for gas for one specific brand of car?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The ISPs should be free to charge end users rates based on the OS the end user is doing.
Are you completely insane? (And I'm asking that in the friendliest voice.)
Do you have any idea just how quickly that would turn into unprovable organized crime?
Because after all, this scenario could happen very quickly: OS Company A goes to the ISP X, and cites incentives, rebates or outright kickbacks for lower rates for OS A - while OS B and OS C are surcharged. An especially effective scenario if OS Company A just happens to be the one with the most trouble - and the most cash to throw around to shore up market share.
And OS Company A even helps the ISP with metrics to show that they're product is better / safer - whether it is or not. Example - 80% of all of one ISP's malware troubles come from OS A. (In the pretend-reality of my example, it could be coming from a handful of lost souls). But - OS A has a 90% market share - so it's mal-rate of 80% being less than the market penetration of 90% makes it .... better.
And how would OS B or C make up for the other 20% of hits? OS A would simply have to put a purposefully-infected - heavily infected - OS B or OS C machine on that ISP's net - and the lie with statistics is complete.
Like insurance rates for different drivers of different cars as end users present threats to the net based on their OS and experience the rates charged to support a malware elimination office should depend on what is being connected.
You get much better insurance than I do. In the USA, they tell us that that's what the rates are based on - but in reality, nothing I drive never ends up with an insurance reduction.
They take you for every nickel that they can imagine ways to justify and get from you.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
All of the problems with multiple computers and OS's behind a single internet line beside, they would never do it that complicated but just charge the extra fees from all users equally.
...they are too big to fail?
"We don't support linux."
If you actually RTFA (not the blog one, which is from the submitter himself), it never mentions Microsoft anywhere. Nor do the german press releases.
You can buy UIDs too.
Usually people go for those 3-digit UIDs but not everyone has the money for that.
Generally, if you have money to buy Apple products, you have a habit of solving your problems by shopping and you have money to spare.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Sorry, but helping the clueless or unfortunate users from something that wasn't created, distributed, or sanctioned by Microsoft isn't a Microsoft Bailout even if the users are running MS Windows.
If Macs were the big dog in the OS world, would you then be calling it an Apple Bailout?
By the way, don't buy into the apple myths. They have malware and bugs aplenty, they just don't have enough population density to encourage easy transmittal, or even be a tempting target for malware creators. Those scum want to get as many machines as possible, so only niche diehards or those who want to prove a point bother to infect anything with less than a 40% market share. Guess what that means... yeah, that's right, they go after Windows. If you flip-flop the percentages, you'll see a total shift in what they target. And that's not guesswork or rhetoric.
Personally I know of many reasons to complain about Microsoft, and Apple, and the Linux community. None are perfect, and all have nuts, fanatics, and total wackjobs. Pick your poison and learn how to use it safely.
That's quality humor son, not flamebait.
If you doubt my ID ownership read back as far as you like and I think you'll find a pleasing consistency of tone and thought.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Thank you for calling the malware eradication center. Please wait while we look up the address associated with the number you are calling from. Press # to manually enter an address."
...
"Your address has been located and your will receive your free ubuntu CD within 2 business days. Thank you and have a nice day."
I would just like to say that in no way is it possible for 40 people to put a dent in the amount of malware problems an entire country would have unless everyone that calls actually takes notes and learns what not to do. In other words, not gonna happen. But I have to say, it's a noble effort. God knows malware drives sales of new computers like nothing else, and it's basically just money lost for the poor average soul. Not that I have tons of sympathy for users that don't want to learn anything, but a lot of people out there have real lives with families and simply don't have a good resource to even get started off on the right foot.
Before you know it, they'll be making the trains run on time.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You can buy UIDs too.
Indeed, but why would I do so since I am perfectly happy with this one?
Unless, SuperKendall is really like the Dread Pirate Roberts. Confidentially, you just lost your spot in line there.
Generally, if you have money to buy Apple products, you have a habit of solving your problems by shopping and you have money to spare.
Oddly, I value my time (and UNIX) far more than money which is why I have Mac products to begin with. But do feel free to fritter your time away on "cheaper" PC's (that you buy twice as often) so that you can afford to buy a lower ID than mine and "win"!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Malware is not the same thing as viruses. No amount of security in the operating system will save the user from getting a malware infection if he clicks "Yes" to anything. Unless the OS is locked down to the point of not being able to install anything.
I've been cleaning up other people's infected Windows machines for longer than I have wanted to. It seems like nine times out of ten, the only way to ensure that the computer is clean after it gets infected is to do a complete pave and rebuild of the OS. That level of complexity isn't something that a tech support person can walk an average user through over the phone. Forget about backing up the data beforehand, or re-installing the applications after the fact.
I like the idea. The way that the article is worded is complete flamebait though. I think we can all agree that steps need to be taken to reduce the number of malware infected Windows boxes on the internet. Doing so makes the internet a better place for everyone. It just seems to me like the Germans are taking on an impossible task. Once a Windows box is owned, it stays owned.
On a related tangent, I think things could be better if ISPs institute the equivalent of a "good driver discount". Give the owners of clean computers a discount on their monthly service fee. I'm not an economist, but it seems like it would need to be enough of a discount to cover the cost of having a "professional" setup the computer right in the first place. I see advertisements where I live that claim to clean malware infected computers for $30-50. So a discount of $5 a month seems about right. On the other hand, if the discount isn't high enough, then the incentive won't be strong enough to encourage people to keep their computers clean. At that point maybe the ISPs need a stick, instead of a carrot. Perhaps throttling the connection, or re-directing to a subset of URLs for how to deal with malware infections.
On the contrary, its 'the people' just saying that the vendors are not doing enough! If you think for a minute that people are stupid, well you may be partially right, but they won't be that way forever. Once they realize it doesn't have to be that way (by talking to others that already know the truth) they will demand more before they spend their next dime. Talking to a person not a party to the software itself will certainly educate them. In this day and age the vendors need to make their products a lot better before the masses will just fork over all their money.
You get much better insurance than I do. In the USA, they tell us that that's what the rates are based on - but in reality, nothing I drive never ends up with an insurance reduction.
They take you for every nickel that they can imagine ways to justify and get from you.
I think it's time for you to change insurance companies then. In fifteen years I've driven close to ten different vehicles. Over the course of fifteen years I've had everything from a perfect driving record almost all the way to the other extreme of being on probation and being one ticket away from having my license revoked. My insurance costs have fluctuated accordingly to reflect the vehicles that I drive, the coverage that I have on them, and my driving habits at the time and my age. The only time I've seen my insurance go up is when I drove a newer car, or when I went from liability to comprehensive.
I'm willing to bet that you keep changing up to newer cars and therefore your rates never go down.
Maybe it should be set up in Munich they should have some clue about installing Linux.
Now I remember that I just recently had to cleanup somebody's computer and didn't install Linux. Damn, I have become so complacent.
Je me souviens.
No, I've been driving for close to 40 years - and have usually maintained zero points (had at most whatever a stop sign in a residential zone got me) and very few new cars (2). And I'm not a total idiot at buying insurance. Maybe with your record and less experience over time, you've saved money when backing away from probation and so forth.
If you're a lifelong safe driver, the rates do not steadily decrease to reward your great driving - despite the commercials.
Oh no - you work for a living - let's check that odometer - more miles to more work=higher risk=higher premiums. More experience with any trouble=you're overdue and you're high risk, especially _given_ that your reaction time _will simply lower_ as you get past 40 years old.
They get you coming and going.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Actually, that was supposed to say that reaction time will increase. See? I just proved their case. :-P
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
I agree that if you're a consistently good driver and keep the same vehicle, the only time you are going to see rate reductions is when you pass those age gateways. For most people I know they saw a reduction when they turned 25. If you're getting dinged for mileage then your broker isn't treating you very well. I've been with State Farm except for a brief period when my driving record was so bad that I had to go with a special AllState program for terrible drivers. I've always had a 15,000 mile a year policy and never gotten any grief for it.
My only real beef with insurance companies is how quickly they will total a car, and how low their compensation rates are when they do it. I've gotten around that by going with a declared value policy. Now I know that if I lose my car, I know exactly how much I will be getting for it. It costs a little bit more per month, but I never have to worry about being given thousands of dollars less than market value for my vehicle. I have never once had an insurance company give me enough money to actually replace my vehicle with one of equal value in the same condition as the one they totaled out.
I turned 25 after the introduction of no-fault insurance - that actually did lower my rates - in one state. I moved to a fault state - rates went up - then they adopted "no fault" - had no similarity whatsoever to the true no-fault goodness I'd gotten elsewhere - and they upped rates again. That was between 19 and 25 for me.
It varies by generation and state as well, I suppose. When I was 25, I was promised reductions when I turned 40. When I turned 40, the "new" data came out - bye bye reduction.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
how long are we going to put up with this corporate welfare? Bank bailout,subsidies for oil and gas companies, subsides for agribusiness etc. I need money, why can't I get it? I pay more in taxes than any of those scum bags.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Okay then - I'll start selling cars (car analogy FTW!)... I don't know anything about cars, but OTOH Microsoft doesn't know shit about Operating Systems, so aparently that's okay... I'll just sell cardboard cutouts and my government will pay for the fixes...
PROFIT!
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
"BSI"
I can't help but wonder if this might be a way for folks to be directed to Knoppix?
Sure, because the same ignorant people who log in to Windows with an admin account, will definatly not log into Linus with a root account exposing them to the same issues on Linux.
This is a stupid user bailout NOT M$ bailout.
Razzious Domini
I could be a GREAT KARMA WHORE if I could just shed the few morals I have left.
I'll provide my own bailout to the world and seed ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent a bit longer.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
fail to see how government specific help around one specific product from one specific company, is not a bailout.
However, that's not what the actual article (not the summary) discusses.
People at the call center could educate callers that the apparent reason Microsoft products have so many vulnerabilities is that Microsoft top managers don't allow Microsoft programmers to finish their work. Unfinished, vulnerable, buggy, limited software makes more money when a company has a virtual monopoly because then the company can sell "upgrades" and upgrades and upgrades and ....
What non-trivial software packages are you thinking of that *aren't* patched, upgraded and replaced over time ?
The purpose of the government is to uphold every citizen's inalienable rights; and it must be as small as it can be while remaining capable of fulfilling that purpose. No more, no less
I propose a different mission for government: in economist-lingo, to maximize social welfare (that is, the sum of how happy the population is).
And of course, the population should value freedom of {speech,assembly,press,etc.} very highly.
But---pregnant pause---there is such a thing as a market failure, and I think it makes good sense for the government to step in and make regulations that makes the market more competitive.
Observe that the societal material benefit of a free market comes about not because the market is free but because it's competitive.
If you're free to enter a market where you'll most certainly be crushed by the incumbent monopoly, what does that freedom really buy the society? But if the monopoly is prevented from using its monopoly status to crush you and has to compete reasonably fairly with you, you might have a shot at getting your better/cheaper product out to consumers.
If you're an American, you'll laugh at "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." I don't. I know there's something shady going on, in particular with travel funds for the EU which the MEPs aren't held much accountable for [long story, but the point is if you-an-MEP travel not-extremely-extravagantly, you can pocket a large wad of my tax money at the end of the year. Some politicians do.]. But I also believe politicians (from time to time) genuinely want to do good for the people and the nation.
Of course they won't. Root is only allowed to log in on tty1-6, not through X, right? RIGHT?
Preferably as a managing director!
Because the first thing you will do, is tell every single calling user, how to remove the worst of all malware from his computer:
1. Download Linux CD/DVD.
2. Burn to disc. (Do not take the disk out).
3. Reboot.
4. Click OK or press Enter, until you see a desktop again.
I’m seriously considering to send them my job application for that very reason. Don’t care, even if I’m fired again. Been there, lived trough it, got on my legs again. Pfft. ^^
Besides, it would be a hell of a lot of fun.
Especially, if they’d decide to fire me anyway. Then I’d come barefoot, not showered or shaved all week, in trash clothes, at 10 am. And piss in the corner on the last day. ^^
I’m no approval junkie. And you can’t punish someone who got nothing to lose because it’s not worth anyting for him anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The Bush administration nobly stood up to the "anti trust" nonsense from the extreme left and allowed many smaller financial companies to merge into a small number of large financial companies that were too big to fail.
Thanks to saint Bush's great wisdom, the companies on Wall Street were too big to fail when the financial markets ran into trouble. If the far left had prevented all those mergers, then those companies would not have been too big to fail, and so they would have failed during the financial troubles that were caused by over-regulation of Wall Street by the communists in the Democrat party.
Thank god we had someone as smart as Bush in the White House back then.
[/strawman]
Windows XP had MAJOR problems during the first 3 years, before service pack 2. Vista had MAJOR problems; it was so bad most big companies refused to buy it.