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Hackers Find Home In Amazon EC2 Cloud

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the don't-mind-us dept.

snydeq writes "Security researchers have spotted the Zeus botnet running an unauthorized command and control center on Amazon's EC2 cloud computing infrastructure. This marks the first time Amazon Web Services' cloud infrastructure has been used for this type of illegal activity, according to threat researcher Don DeBolt. The hackers got onto Amazon's infrastructure by hacking into a Web site hosted on Amazon's servers and then secretly installing their command and control infrastructure."

89 comments

  1. If anything... by iamapizza · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is going to Kindle a debate about the merits and demerits of the cloud.

    --
    Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
    1. Re:If anything... by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      *groan*

      --
      oogly boogly!
    2. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      And the security of Linux... You see , Amazon uses Apache + Linux in their cloud computing system, so the zealots have told me that such an attack is in fact impossible ;--)

    3. Re:If anything... by default+luser · · Score: 1

      Well, it looks like I've been doing it wrong all this time. I've been trying to hack the cloud with an axe.

      I just keep whiffing.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    4. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you believe them?

    5. Re:If anything... by isama · · Score: 1

      apache was once great, but now it has a lot of leaks. if you want secure you should use nginx

    6. Re:If anything... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not really, as everyone knows you have hotmail and gmail accounts that have commands updated each week for certain other types of botnet, so is that to spark a debate about whether or not we should allow hotmail or gmail, certainly not, however, it could go to show there should be a better security implementation on the servers hosting the clouds to quickly locate any compromised machines or code on the servers.

    7. Re:If anything... by noric · · Score: 1

      EC2 instances will run Windows.

    8. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the relevance of that is what? The servers themselves that were hacked run Linux and apache.

    9. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all fairness, its only systems that have been properly configured should be considered bullet-proof (including removing the plug from the wall).

    10. Re:If anything... by Necrobruiser · · Score: 1

      Bulletproof? Dang. I forgot to protect my servers from hackers with guns....

      --
      "I planned within my means and got a fixed rate mortgage, so where's MY bailout?" -cafepress
    11. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, of course it has nothing to do with the code that was created by a 3rd party and was running on these servers. Nope, no way!

    12. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lolled. Whiffing.

    13. Re:If anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apache was once great, but now it has a lot of leaks. if you want secure you should use nginx

      bahahahahahahhhahha!!!!1!! Seriously? That useless piece of shit?

  2. And? by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is nothing intrinsic to a cloud of computers that makes them any different then the internet in general. Anything that makes use of unprotected computers on the internet will make use of a cloud as well. In fact, from a logical perspective, the internet is a cloud. Its just that access is generally curtailed in some way.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:And? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In fact the internet has been represented as a cloud long before cloud became a buzzword.

    2. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wait a minute. I'm a manager, and I've been reading a lot of case studies and watching a lot of webcasts about The Cloud. Based on all of this glorious marketing literature, I, as a manager, have absolutely no reason to doubt the safety of any data put in The Cloud.

      The case studies all use words like "secure", "MD5", "RSS feeds" and "encryption" to describe the security of The Cloud. I don't know about you, but that sounds damn secure to me! Some Clouds even use SSL and HTTP. That's rock solid in my book.

      And don't forget that you have to use Web Services to access The Cloud. Nothing is more secure than SOA and Web Services, with the exception of perhaps SaaS. But I think that Cloud Services 2.0 will combine the tiers into an MVC-compliant stack that uses SaaS to increase the security and partitioning of the data.

      My main concern isn't with the security of The Cloud, but rather with getting my Indian team to learn all about it so we can deploy some first-generation The Cloud applications and Web Services to provide the ultimate platform upon which we can layer our business intelligence and reporting, because there are still a few verticals that we need to leverage before we can move to The Cloud 2.0.

    3. Re:And? by Rycross · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We need to extend Poe's Law to managerial speak.

    4. Re:And? by ihuntrocks · · Score: 1

      I'd like to second this. I'd also like to point out that this applies to security as it relates to anything (cloud computing, Linux, apache, etc). Security is not a product. Security is a process. It is incumbent on administrators and engineers to ensure that they are aware of what they are doing with their technology, and what sort of implications it may have.

      It does little good to build an impenetrable vault and leave the door open all the time.

      --
      Randimal: AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG-CG-AT-AT-CG-AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG-AT-CG-CG-AT-AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG
    5. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously know what you're talking about. Since you have been so successful at taking charge of all this technology, I have decided to promote you to VP of technology marketing with a focus on leveraging Cloud solutions. We need to start integrating this Cloud thing in all our products and you are best positioned to envision the roadmap for how to add value for our customers through next-generation Cloud solutions.

    6. Re:And? by cHiphead · · Score: 1

      I will use this verbatim at my next Technology Strategy meeting.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    7. Re:And? by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      The Cloud applications and Web Services to provide the ultimate platform upon which we can layer our business intelligence and reporting, because there are still a few verticals that we need to leverage before we can move to The Cloud 2.0.

      Bingo!

    8. Re:And? by sjames · · Score: 2, Funny
      • Buzzword compliant: check
      • So far into the latest trend we can't even tell if it's real: check
      • Thinking so foggy that "the cloud" is spewing from your ears and covering your office floor like a bad horror film: check!

      There we have it. Metrics never lie! Looks like you're on a one way trip to the executive suite!

    9. Re:And? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Link next time. I had to waste 10 seconds googling =) http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law

    10. Re:And? by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      Damn, you didn't miss a meeting did you?

    11. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a "Cloud" is a Beowulf Cluster, you insensitive clod! I, for one welcome our hacked Beowulf Cluster overlords.

  3. Nothing really special by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hackers break into website, but it happens to be hosted on EC2. Hosting in cloud doesn't automagically make your sites more secure.

    --
    Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    1. Re:Nothing really special by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 1

      It does make it more scalable though =)

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    2. Re:Nothing really special by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the "special" part of the news is that since its being hosted on the cloud its harder to remove - since it'll be running on multiple computers capable of replicating itself across multiple machines. In order to purge it, you'd probably have to take down the entire infected cloud and clean it all seperately or at least all in synch.

    3. Re:Nothing really special by nametaken · · Score: 1

      But it does mean that Amazon can shut down the compromised instances. That's where the up's and down's come in. I'm happy if they shut someone else off. I get a big-brother feeling if they shut mine off. :)

    4. Re:Nothing really special by MushMouth · · Score: 1

      No, you just change your launch keys and kill the infected nodes, which can all be done in seconds.

    5. Re:Nothing really special by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      If it were that easy - why hasn't it been fixed? They claim they've only discovered the botnet, not removed it.

    6. Re:Nothing really special by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you as AC that it is quite easy to remove and the only reason that it hasn't been done yet is because it is the holiday season, so it entails more approval paperwork for potentially impactful changes.

    7. Re:Nothing really special by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      I think the "special" part of the news is that since its being hosted on the cloud its harder to remove - since it'll be running on multiple computers capable of replicating itself across multiple machines. In order to purge it, you'd probably have to take down the entire infected cloud and clean it all seperately or at least all in synch.

      Or, more likely, just disable the affected virtual instances, and maybe all instances for the affected account (assuming that by violating the hosted instances security, the intruders gained full access to the account.) Only if they compromised EC2's own security to the extent of getting, essentially, administrative access to EC2, not just administrative access to a hosted instance, would the cloud itself be compromised.

    8. Re:Nothing really special by DaTroof · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to the second article, it has been fixed.

      Please Note:The legitimate hacked website was contacted and informed about its participation in the Zeus bot activity and accordingly has stopped serving the malicious variant.

    9. Re:Nothing really special by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      You'd have to identify the vulnerable section of your webapp, fix the code, destroy all your EC2 instances, and then have them all start up and rebuild based on your new, secure codebase. Good times!

    10. Re:Nothing really special by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your site or the botnet?

    11. Re:Nothing really special by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      With EC2, you'd bring up a new node based on the clean AMI, but with a security policy which allows only your IP to talk to it (this is the default). You'd fix the vulnerability and save that instance as a new AMI.

      You'd launch new instances of the clean, fixed AMI. You'd shut down the old infected instances. Done. No downtime and a complete purge.

      Most of your time would be spent fixing the vulnerability, the rest of it are just standard EC2 maintenance tasks that if you're moderately savvy in the cloud would take you at most a few minutes.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    12. Re:Nothing really special by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Alternatively you can just terminate the instance. Far easier than disconnecting a physical machine.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  4. This type of illegal activity? by quangdog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "This marks the first time Amazon Web Services' cloud infrastructure has been used for this type of illegal activity"

    So, has it been used for other illegal things that have been reported on? Is it even possible for anyone to find out all the possible illegal uses of technolgies like cloud computing?

    1. Re:This type of illegal activity? by narcolepticjim · · Score: 1

      Not within the cloud itself. Incompleteness and all that.

    2. Re:This type of illegal activity? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Is it even possible for anyone to find out all the possible illegal uses of technolgies like cloud computing?

      Yes, because it's exactly the same as regular computing.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  5. Ready for prime time! by HaeMaker · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know, if bot net operators are trusting the EC2 cloud for their mission critical operations, it has to be ready for prime time.

    This is a stunning endorsement. Amazon should send out a press release.

  6. Not Amazon that got hacked by Meshach · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to the article it was not Amazon itself that got hacked but an "unidentified website on Amazon's cloud" that got hacked. The hackers then used that website to get onto the cloud and execute code.

    --
    "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
    Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:Not Amazon that got hacked by nacturation · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to the summary too: "The hackers got onto Amazon's infrastructure by hacking into a Web site hosted on Amazon's servers..."

      No different than "a web site hosted on Rackspace's servers". I agree with the other posts that this is essentially a non-news item. So a server gets hacked. It doesn't matter that the server is in someone's basement or in a colo or a VM somewhere.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  7. This is not new by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you search "Xbox Host booting" on YouTube, there are hundreds of videos showing you how to utilize the mass computing power of the cloud to knock your opponent off from a Halo 3 session and get the win.

    --
    New Economic Perspectives
  8. I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by meerling · · Score: 3, Funny

    I love that " ...then secretly installing their command and control infrastructure." statement.
    When was the last time a criminal came up to your admin and said, "Hi, I'm going to install my unwanted rootkit on your server now so I can use it as a botnet."?
    Yeah, it's like saying a burglar secretly robbed your house... Like he's really going to send you a postcard saying, "Tonight when you go to the movies, I'm going to pillage your apt.".

    1. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if I secretly robbed your house a few weeks ago? It's secret, because you still don't know about it.

      (note: I said "what if")

    2. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      No, no! They kept it a secret from the other criminal gangs in the neighborhood, silly.

      --
      512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
    3. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When was the last time a criminal came up to your admin and said, "Hi, I'm going to install my unwanted rootkit on your server now so I can use it as a botnet."?

      Yesterday. But since he wasn't asking a question, I couldn't say no. I advised him that his course of action was not one that I wished to occur and he politely informed me that it was "duly noted" and proceeded anyways. All in all, it was a nice verbal transaction and his posture was excellent, and I'm sure outside of his work he's a really nice guy. I wanted to ask him if he wanted to go for a couple of cold ones - but I think that might have been pushing it and didn't want to offend him.

      To be honest, the thing that bugs me more than this backdoor to my machine is the regret that I never reached out to him more. A lost friendship, that will likely never have another chance at forming. Everytime that Antivirus XP pop-up comes on screen it reminds me of him. I've slowly come to realize that I am remembering him constantly, where he probably does not remember me at all. I shamefully admit that I cry myself to sleep, telling myself that one day he'll come back to me, and maybe out of remorse he'll remove the conficker and everything will be okay.

    4. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Stregano · · Score: 0

      Holy crap dude. If you have gone on, I would have been hysterically laughing in my cube. We can stop the comments now, you won the thread.

      --
      The world is how you make it
    5. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's like saying a burglar secretly robbed your house... Like he's really going to send you a postcard saying, "Tonight when you go to the movies, I'm going to pillage your apt.".

      "Arsène Lupin, gentleman burglar, will return when the furniture is genuine."

    6. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by electricbern · · Score: 1

      You can always reconnect through Facebook.

      --
      alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls /dev > il && tail daemon.log'
    7. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by sheph · · Score: 1

      What is even more humorous is that this was modded interesting.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    8. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by gregarican · · Score: 1

      Dude stop it, you're killing me. I mean it. STOP IT, YOU'RE KILLING ME! Oyyyyy....

    9. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

      Thank you, and yes I do think of you, often..

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    10. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you babbling about? Your post is unfunny and nonsensical to boot.

    11. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      What are you babbling about? Your post is unfunny and nonsensical to boot.

      Just for you, AC, I will break it down.

      The parent of the thread pointed out that the line "then secretly installing their command and control infrastructure" is a little silly because no hacker would ever do it NOT in secret. He then explains similar scenarios in why it would be ridiculous if someone did.

      In my post I claim that someone in fact DID perform such a ridiculous action. However, since we're being ridiculous, I thought it would be funny to kick it up a notch and make MY REACTION even MORE ridiculous.

      Making yourself a target for ridicule is not anything new. If you are unable to grasp this concept I would hope that there is a reasonable explanation. Perhaps you were raised in a different culture, perhaps english isn't your native tongue so you don't quite follow the nuances of my speech. I broke up my sentences with unnecessary commas and hyphens to excentuate certain words or phrases, in order to make my post sound more like a confession or a story instead of just a post.

      Also, I'm not sure if you mean nonsensical meaning that the structure of my writing doesn't make sense, or my actions don't make sense.

      Because if it's my actions, that is kind of the point. The fact they DON'T make sense is funny.

    12. Re:I'm just pwning your server if that's ok... by cecom · · Score: 1

      I think yours may be the best Slashdot post ever!!!

  9. The "Deniable" Already Happens! by StCredZero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "This marks the first time Amazon Web Services' cloud infrastructure has been used for this type of illegal activity"

    So, has it been used for other illegal things that have been reported on? Is it even possible for anyone to find out all the possible illegal uses of technolgies like cloud computing?

    I'm willing to bet that folks like Apple, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft are already hiring "security consultants" to act as deniable intermediaries to other consultants using semi-legal (or flat-out illegal) means to gather information. Not only are arrangements like this being used for industrial espionage, but to gather intelligence on illegal operators who might hack into or otherwise subvert corporate resources like AWS or Google's cloud. This would just be an extension of what companies already do with "private detectives."

    Someone needs to start writing novels about this!

    1. Re:The "Deniable" Already Happens! by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      I would, but Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Apple all pay more than what a good novel would bring.

      James Patterson

  10. the interesting thing is autoscaling and billing by noric · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The interesting thing about this case, to me, is that Amazon's lawful customer will receive a bill in the mail for hacker usage charges.

  11. Well, at least it isnt IRC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...since we all know IRC is where hackers go to talk when they don't want to be overheard.

  12. Yes. by svtdragon · · Score: 1

    Is it even possible for anyone to find out all the possible illegal uses of technolgies like cloud computing?

    Yes. They're exactly the same as all the possible illegal uses of any other kind of computing.

  13. IIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what they get for using windows. Every windows box in existence has been compromised seconds after hooking it up to the internet

  14. WHAT???? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hosting in cloud doesn't automagically make your sites more secure.

    You mean... I still have to have people who can "manage" my systems?

    NOOOO!!!!
     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:WHAT???? by Neuroelectronic · · Score: 0

      No, Amazon does that. You can fire those people. What you need is people who know how to build a website securely.

  15. Re:the interesting thing is autoscaling and billin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is the billing issue different?

    Most hosting services are prepaid. Should customers of a $30 VPS hosting plan also receive credit when a hacker exploits a poorly coded PHP file and uses resources of their VPS? Very similar scenario.

    The real story here is not that it was on EC2. The resource suggests this is the first time EC2 has been used for such a purpose....... but EC2 instances have been compromised before -- as everyone else has already posted, all servers will have these vulnerabilities.

  16. Used to inflate ratings? by athowell · · Score: 1

    I bet someone was using it to buff their ratings!

    --
    http://www.abox.org
    Avery Howell
  17. thundercloud tag by Luyseyal · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Thundercloud... subs?

    -l

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  18. Yes, yes it is by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Is it even possible for anyone to find out all the possible illegal uses of technolgies like cloud computing?

    Yes, it is possible. However, it is the same as trying to win a war against jealousy or envy.

  19. You must be lost, sir. by Divide+By+Zero · · Score: 1
    Jeez, boss, get off Slashdot! News for NERDS. CIO Magazine has its own site.

    I know you sign my performance reviews every year, but that doesn't mean you can invade my home like this.

    --
    Dare to Hope. Prepare to be Disappointed.
  20. Brute Force ssh attacks from Amazon by peterthomas2009 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "This marks the first time Amazon Web Services' cloud infrastructure has been used for this type of illegal activity"

    I posted to my blog back in June that Amazon cloud nodes were compromised and performing brute force SSH scans against some of my hosts.

    This story and my post merely highlight the obvious fact that most cloud services are just scalable hosting. Remember your instance / slice / vm can be compromised like any other web host.

    Amazon Cloud Service Brute Force Attacks

  21. This is new? by digitalgimpus · · Score: 1

    Is this new? Various AWS based IP's have been trying to hookup with my server by fondling it's SSH port for a while now. Damn AWS perverts. Can't keep their sockets and packets to themselves.

  22. I'm (still) seeing penetration attempts by david.emery · · Score: 1

    I'm seeing attempts to access a bunch of non-existent but suspicious files on my server (most recent at 12:32 EST today)

    mydomain.com/
          install.txt , cart, zencart, zen-cart, zen, shop, bulk, zcart, shop2, catalog, mobile, iphone, mobi, m, boutique, cart, store

    None of these things exist on my server, and it -might be the case- that a legitimate web crawler would look for mobile web customizations in mobile, mobi, iphone or even m, the rest of these make absolutely no sense for anything other than nefarious purposes...

    I'm also seeing attacks against
            phpMyAdmin, phpmyadmin, mysql, ok.txt

    (There are some significant advantages to running a "dumb" webserver without ASP, PHP, JSP, etc :-)

    I need to figure out a way to have a 'blacklist file', such that any attempt to access these files adds the requester to a blacklist.

    1. Re:I'm (still) seeing penetration attempts by peterthomas2009 · · Score: 1

      Have a look at OSSEC with active response.

    2. Re:I'm (still) seeing penetration attempts by Slashcrap · · Score: 1

      (There are some significant advantages to running a "dumb" webserver without ASP, PHP, JSP, etc :-)

      I need to figure out a way to have a 'blacklist file', such that any attempt to access these files adds the requester to a blacklist.

      Get a less dumb webserver?

    3. Re:I'm (still) seeing penetration attempts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can use psad to blacklist people making bogus requests

  23. Cloud bot by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    err wait...

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  24. Re:the interesting thing is autoscaling and billin by bangzilla · · Score: 1

    Which is no different than any system that gets hacked/taken over. There is a cost associated with the intrusions *somewhere* along the way. It may be a 3rd party hosting charge, bandwidth or just your time (which may be considerable) in repairing graffiti, clearing your good name etc.

    --
    Rich people are eccentric. Poor people are strange. Me, I'd be happy with odd.
  25. Hackers^H^H^H^H^H^H^HCrackers Find Home In Amazon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Crackers, not Hackers

  26. Ummm.. did I miss the news portion of this? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

    VMs have been compromised through some exploit that has nothing to do with Amazon. The exploit allowed C&C component of a botnet to lodge itself into the hosting machine(s). And ... it's news because Amazon is hosting? The machines are only as secure as the images provided to Amazon, are they not?

  27. Honeypot attacked over 2 years ago by EC2 Instance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had an astrix server honeypot being actively attacked and then compromised by Amazon EC2 instances. After making a bunch of calls to Amazon, it was confirmed that the instance had been compromised and the admins had been contacted. This was two years ago!

    Let me see if I can find those emails...

  28. Whai I got back from Amazon... by david.emery · · Score: 1

    Hello from Amazon.com.

    We're sorry to hear you've experienced issues with the malware/penetration attempts coming from Amazon cloud computing servers.

    The symptoms you've reported are consistent with malicious software (malware), such as a virus or spyware, installed on your computer. If your computer has been infected with this type of software, it can replace images in the Amazon.com advertisement slots or generate pop-up ads with images that are not intentionally inserted by Amazon or our advertising partners.

    followed by a bunch of stuff relevant to delousing Windows desktops...

  29. Re:Hackers^H^H^H^H^H^H^HCrackers Find Home In Amaz by Tim+C · · Score: 1

    You've lost that argument, you might as well give it up.

    Also, ^W (delete word) not ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H.

    --
    It's official. Most of you are morons.