"Nexus One" Is Google's Android Phone

xchg writes "It's still not called the 'Google Phone,' but the Nexus One — to be made by HTC — is as close as I think we're going to get. The WSJ cites sources familiar with Google's plans and says that Google has designed this handset and plans to sell it directly to consumers, unlocked."

Comments

A great source of +5 comments

[solevita]

Good news, if you need some +5 comments for this article, you can find them here! The dupe system in action.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say it would be about equal to the Droid. Here's the rumors I've heard/read: - Processor speed will probably beat the droid, - HTC SenseUI will be nice, - Battery will probably be worse due to the stronger processor. - Screen should be nice an beautiful like the droid's, maybe ever more stunning. - Haven't heard anything about an LED flash like the droid's - No hardware keyboard - Sounds like T-Mobile's (weird flavor of?) GSM. - HTC Trackball v Moto'd directional pad - No discount, so looking at $300-800 ish? Full bias disclosure: I own a Droid and love it. Plan to marry it. Verizon has me by the balls in the prenup though.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Most americans seem to have quite a hard time comparing prices simply because most of the time your carriers subsidize so much of the actual price. Here are some prices from one of the cheaper web stores in Finland. Please note that these have taxes included and probably the "europeans are idiots" bonus (1 dollar = 1 euro) iPhone 3GS 32GB - 528 euro (+ 12 month contract with "normal" prices) iPhone 3G 8GB - 396 euro (+12 month contract with "normal" prices) HTC Hero - 489.90 euro (no contract) Motorola Milestone - 549.90 euro (no contract + 50 euro for localized keyboard) Nokia N900 - 569.00 euro (no contract) Samsung Galaxy i7500 - 489.90 euro( no contract) Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Android - 749.90 euro (no contract) Based on these it would seem that most top of the line phones actually cost around 500 - 600 euro (that is probably 500$-600$ in US) and even correlates pretty nicely with release schedule. Don't get the price on the Sony Ericsson, though it isn't actually out yet I think.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to have placed your comment in the wrong thread... GP was about a duplicate story and had nothing to do with the price of a phone.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[mathx314]

Except this isn't really a dupe, since the last article didn't mention that Google's apparently planning on selling this phone. The last one just said it was a gift to employees.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh we're checking threads now?

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Some estimate,that.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[joelpt]

"Most Americans"

Fuck you. Where's your evidence to back this statement up you fucking douche.

This comment actually says a lot about how many Americans think.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Phoghat]

Hope you'll be very happy together, although it seems sex will be problematic

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[coresnake]

No root? No keyboard? No purchase.

Re:A great source of +5 comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Most americans seem to have quite a hard time comparing prices simply because most of the time your carriers subsidize so much of the actual price.

Here are some prices from one of the cheaper web stores in Finland. Please note that these have taxes included and probably the "europeans are idiots" bonus (1 dollar = 1 euro)

• iPhone 3GS 32GB - 528 euro (+ 12 month contract with "normal" prices)
• iPhone 3G 8GB - 396 euro (+12 month contract with "normal" prices)
• HTC Hero - 489.90 euro (no contract)
• Motorola Milestone - 549.90 euro (no contract + 50 euro for localized keyboard)
• Nokia N900 - 569.00 euro (no contract)
• Samsung Galaxy i7500 - 489.90 euro( no contract)
• Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Android - 749.90 euro (no contract)

Based on these it would seem that most top of the line phones actually cost around 500 - 600 euro (that is probably 500$-600$ in US) and even correlates pretty nicely with release schedule. Don't get the price on the Sony Ericsson, though it isn't actually out yet I think.

Google Phones

[Nate Fox]

Because the Ion and DevOne weren'nt "Google Phones"?

Lies

[Anonymous Coward]

There's only one +5 comment in that article.

You Nexus, huh?...

[Nick Novitski]

...I design your camera! Isn't it bad luck to name any advanced electronic device after a renegade robot from a work of science fiction? I wouldn't shave with an ED-209, or drive a Lexus Bolo.

Re:You Nexus, huh?...

[gzipped_tar]

I could have answered you with "If only you could see from my camera!", but instead, I'll probably show you some pics -- attack ships on fire at the shoulder of Orion, C-beams glittering through the darkness near the Tannhauser gate, and much more.. wait, you've already seen them? Google image search? Damn, I want more privacy, father!

Re:You Nexus, huh?...

[H0p313ss]

I could have answered you with "If only you could see from my camera!", but instead, I'll probably show you some pics -- attack ships on fire at the shoulder of Orion, C-beams glittering through the darkness near the Tannhauser gate, and much more.. wait, you've already seen them? Google image search? Damn, I want more privacy, father!

Somebody totally needs to make a Flicker feed for Roy. Afterall he's already on Facebook

Re:You Nexus, huh?...

[mcsqueak]

Came here for Blade Runner quotes, and very happy to find them within one minute of reading!

Sort of on topic, one time I was filling out an information form on Google (for some sort of business service they offer, can't remember which one now) and next to the box that said "Business Name" it said "e.g. Tyrell Corporation". There are some serious Blade Runner fans at that company!

Re:You Nexus, huh?...

[Anonymous Coward]

so the Nexus 6 would be indistinguishable from an iPhone...?

Re:You Nexus, huh?...

[blake182]

I would be happy to have a phone that lived for four years though.

I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Locked into a 2 year contract with a hefty new early termination fee, news like this is just awesome (that was sarcasm). This makes me wonder if the recent raise in ETF by verizon was driven by knowledge that this was coming.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Title correction:

You did not just 'buy' a droid, you financed it over a period of 2 years. Verizon still owns the Droid but they got you to sign a contract that allows them to call the loan they gave you for it, if you leave them.

If cell phones came with titles, like vehicles do, Verizon would mail you your title when your contract ran out.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[bleh-of-the-huns]

disclaimer: I despise verizon with a passion, and I also hate ETF's..

BUT.. I do not really see an issue with verizon upping the ETF on certain phones. Lets look at your droid for example (other then the fact that Verizon chose to brand it in such a way as to confuse people who do not know the difference between the android OS from google which runs on multiple phones, and is not a particular phone for verizon, my wife, who is somewhat technically savvy got caught in this particular branding trap).

If you buy the GSM version of the Droid, called the Sholes/Milestone unlocked at retail, it runs around $600 to $900 depending on where you buy it. Assuming bulk purchasing that carriers have, they probably get the phone for around $300 to $500 (total guess on my part). Unlocked non subsidized phones are expensive, even cheap freebies you get on contract can run $200 to $300 unlocked and non subsidized.

They are subsidizing the cost of the phone early and make up the difference and profit in service, but if you cancel early, they have the potential to take a large loss on the device, hence the ETF, so in the Droids case, $350 ETF may or may not make up the amount they are subsidizing, since you only paid $199 up front, or less in some places (I vaguely remember seeing the Droid for $99, at some point).

Now the bigger issue I have is with ATT, who while also subsidizes the phones, absolutely refuses to provide the unlock code to remove the simlock in place on their phones, even after you have completed your 2 year contractual obligation.. so if I want to switch to tmobile, I have to buy a new phone, that is absolutely bogus, and needs to be fixed, granted I have unlocked every phone I have every had, and for the most part I pay more for some unlocked devices, but thats not th epoint.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[ryanov]

Then how come my bill doesn't go down when I'm done paying off the phone?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[christianT]

Your bill doesn't go down because the majority of Americans don't understand that they are paying for their "free" or "discounted" phone over the life of the contract. They think they really got a free phone or a discount. They figure their monthly bill is strictly covering their monthly usage of the service. Therefore, the cell phone service providers can get away with it.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mspohr]

I don't know why these phones are so expensive. The basic parts (touchscreen, processor, memory, case) are cheap... it should be cheaper than a netbook which has more pieces (keyboard, hard disk, lots of ports).

I have seen those China iPhone clones which have all of the hardware functionality of the iPhone (with lousy software) for $100 so the hardware can't cost much. The software can't cost much when amortized over millions of phones. Seems like there is a lot of profit in phones.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Now the bigger issue I have is with ATT, who while also subsidizes the phones, absolutely refuses to provide the unlock code to remove the simlock in place on their phones, even after you have completed your 2 year contractual obligation.. so if I want to switch to tmobile, I have to buy a new phone, that is absolutely bogus, and needs to be fixed, granted I have unlocked every phone I have every had, and for the most part I pay more for some unlocked devices, but thats not th epoint.

After the third month of your contract, tell AT&T you want to take your phone with you on your upcoming trip to Europe, but that you want to unlock the phone so you can use European pre-paid SIM cards in it. They will add International Roaming to your account (drop it on the website later), and then either unlock your phone remotely or give you the number.

My grandmother had an AT&T phone which I wanted to use on T-Mobile. I gave it to a friend who has AT&T service, who got the unlock code and then gave it back to me.

(Submitted Anonymously to protect the guilty.... :) )

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[chill]

Buy a cheap phone without 3G, because you aren't going to be able to use it on T-Mobile since the frequencies are different.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[TooMuchToDo]

My bill does. I call the carrier and haggle them down on the price after the contract is up, since I can leave and it's cheaper for them to discount the service than to acquire a customer from scratch.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[c0d3g33k]

Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are, since you just supported the argument made by the parent post while attempting to be contrary. After the obligatory contract period is complete (which is the exchange for getting the discounted phone), why doesn't the monthly bill "strictly cover the monthly usage of the service" instead of remaining at the same level it was while "paying for the free or discounted phone"?

My answer is that the contract period isn't really paying for the phone, it's providing a guaranteed revenue stream for the company for a specified period of time. A steady, guaranteed revenue stream is very important for a business, since it makes things a bit more predictable.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

It can if you threaten to cancel

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[jedrek]

For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[jeti]

You forgot to factor in patent fees. They probably won't get paid for the cheap Chinese knockoffs.
AFAIK a 3g connection module with royalties costs over $100 per device alone.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a bit warped to say your buying a "guaranteed revenue stream" just because the phone company bills you as such. Your buying a phone with lock-in, one that you're more likely than not to upgrade with the same network (they hope). I guess you'd need a law to stop the rolling up of costs into one bill, or freedom in phone choice, which may eventually separate out the price of the phone and contract.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[bkr1_2k]

I thought phone companies were required by law to provide unlock codes. Was I mistaken? I know my wife has gotten two AT&T phones unlocked over the past couple of years... maybe she just got the nice rep.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Rob the Bold]

Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are . . .

Hey, you just insulted someone to make your point. Oh well, I'll still respond politely.

My answer is that the contract period isn't really paying for the phone, it's providing a guaranteed revenue stream for the company for a specified period of time. A steady, guaranteed revenue stream is very important for a business, since it makes things a bit more predictable.

Isn't that really splitting hairs? To say that they carrier is providing you with a free or discounted phone to get you to sign a 2 year contract isn't meaningfully distinct from letting you finance the phone over a two-year period. Perhaps it makes a difference to the carrier's accounting, but that's none of the customer's concern.

But even it that were true, that the two-year contract was what the carrier was getting in exchange for the discount phone, why then wouldn't a carrier offer someone who brought their own equipment a somewhat discounted two-year plan? That way they could still get a steady, guaranteed revenue stream for predictability. If they entice the "free phone" crowd with a phone (which costs the carrier something), then why not entice the BYO crowd with a somewhat lower monthly fee, reflecting the lower initial cost due to not providing a discount phone.

Or perhaps, the discount phone really isn't discounted. Perhaps it isn't a loss leader at all, and is just sold to the customer for roughly its cost to the carrier. That would explain why monthly fees aren't discounted for BYO users and also don't go down at the end of the contract: namely, the carrier got a 2-year lock-in from the customer for essentially free.

By way of anecdotal evidence, I offer the case of my wife (then girlfriend). She got a run-of-the-mill phone from SBC (then Cingular then ATT) for the "discounted" price of ~$50. In exchange, she signed a 2-year contract for service, and was talked into an "insurance policy" for the instrument. The policy cost around $7 a month. When she dropped the phone (for the last time), she went to take advantage of the "insurance policy". Doing so required her to pay a $40 "administrative fee" in order to get a replacement phone. I talked her out of that and got her a new phone equivalent to her old one off ebay for $40. She canceled the "insurance policy" after I explained that she could buy 2 new phones per year for the cost of the policy, or 4 new phones for the cost of the policy and two claims.

Anyway, the original "discounted phone" and its replacement were no cheaper than buying an unlocked instrument from a third party. She received nothing of value for signing the contract or for paying for "phone insurance".

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Rob the Bold]

For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.

Unless you're dissatisfied with your carrier for some other reason, why not mention the name and the method you used to get the deal?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Rob the Bold]

BUT.. I do not really see an issue with verizon upping the ETF on certain phones. Lets look at your droid for example (other then the fact that Verizon chose to brand it in such a way as to confuse people who do not know the difference between the android OS from google which runs on multiple phones, and is not a particular phone for verizon, my wife, who is somewhat technically savvy got caught in this particular branding trap).

As a "free market" customer, my goal is to find the best deal for myself, not to see the logic of the seller's pricing or policies. I don't care why a carrier charges a large ETF, I just want to find the smallest one. If I were a carrier, OTOH, I definitely would be explaining to my customers the reason they should just shut up and accept whatever I wanted to charge.

If you buy the GSM version of the Droid, called the Sholes/Milestone unlocked at retail, it runs around $600 to $900 depending on where you buy it. Assuming bulk purchasing that carriers have, they probably get the phone for around $300 to $500 (total guess on my part). Unlocked non subsidized phones are expensive, even cheap freebies you get on contract can run $200 to $300 unlocked and non subsidized.

Phones equivalent to the "cheap freebies" you mention are available (e.g on ebay -- new) for under $100, some for $25-$50. If you find eBaying a phone a little iffy and unsavory, you can get similar deals in the Amazon Marketplace.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[phobos512]

@bleh - That's funny that you mention problems getting the unlock code - I've had no such problems, even in the middle of a contract. Just call them up and ask, and they give it to me. Couldn't be more straightforward unless they were to put it on a card in the box with the phone. Maybe you just have to be more polite?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[nametaken]

It does, in theory, by virtue of your termination fee being prorated. What you should be asking is why the fee schedule is so badly unbalanced.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[pr100]

If you think they can be made and sold for a profit more cheaply then what are you waiting for? Go into business and do it, then sit back and count your millions!

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Mr_Silver]

Then how come my bill doesn't go down when I'm done paying off the phone?

Customer apathy.

Or to put it another way, it's the same reason why your bank doesn't phone you up and point out that they have a great new account with a much higher rate of interest.

A lot of operators will either give you a discount or let you move to a SIM only tariff which is much better value. However just because you can't be bothered to find out what your options are, doesn't mean that they are going to make all the effort to tell you.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[metamatic]

This new phone will be GSM, so it won't work on Verizon anyway.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[lukas84]

No, actually it has to do with whatever rating you have at your phone provider.

Numerous things count into that rating - how much your bill is, if you pay it on time, how often you buy a new phone, how often you call the hotline to ask about stupid shit and on what kind of plan you are (business, private) etc. pp.

The easiest distinction is usually seen between business and private contracts - i have my phone on a business contract (together with 20 other phones), and when the iPhone was released here, you had to wait 2-4 weeks to get one (as a few of my friends in store told me). I wanted one too, but as lazy as i was i didn't go to any store - i just called them up, asked about iPhone availability, they asked for my phone number and corporate account number, told me that they had them on stock and i got it in the mail the next day.

That's what a good CRM system gets you - the more you pay, the better service you get.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Better question: Why does my bill go up when I'm done paying off the phone?

Yes when you leave contract AT&T charges more. That's my primary problem with getting a phone elsewhere I have to pay the higher bill for the phone and for the service. I've talked to customer service about two years ago because the store was refusing to give me a new phone and my bill was getting really high; they flat admitted I would be better of switching carriers. It took 5 phone calls to get a rep who put a note in saying to give me a new phone since I was out of contract.

Offtopic: After the past two years, just stay away from AT&T. Two correct bills in 22 months; its just not worth it. Usually I can get a credit for amounts > $10, but the 4+ hours argueing just isn't worth it.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

For one thing, there's no reason that the next to last month of the contract should cost >$100 to break the ETF. It should be free or nearly so by that point because they've subsidized the phone.

The way to know is that Verizon actually lets you trade out your phone on a yearly basis if you extend your contract to a new 2 full year contract again.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[rdavidson3]

Not sure why this is getting marked as a troll as I found a couple of articles that talk about Apple's royality troubles.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/29/nokia-vs-apple-the-in-depth-analysis/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/36317-apple-s-iphone-and-the-future-of-qualcomm-part-ii

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[crashumbc]

For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.

Unless you're dissatisfied with your carrier for some other reason, why not mention the name and the method you used to get the deal?

Shush this is the internet, proof is for the weak...

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

You really need to back this up. $100 sounds way, way too high, especially since you can get a 3G aircard for $100 with no contract. In general, most royalties are relatively low on a per-device basis, making it up on the fact that there are hundreds of millions of the devices.

(Practicing what I preach....)
http://www.replaceyourcell.com/product/881U_BLACK_AIRCARD?meta=FRG&utm_source=GBASE&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=&utm_campaign=

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[bleh-of-the-huns]

Weird, bunch of replies that have been successful, I am always nice and courteous (hell I did ISP tech support at the beginning of my career, I know what it is like on the other end of the phone), yet I get cited company policy in the few times I tried. once was with the tilt2 (I ended up unlocking it and cooking my own rom so that became a non issue), and of course then there is the iphone, which I would have preferred to get unlocked legitimately, if that is even possible, but I jailbroke and unlocked it anyways, I used it when I went to South Africa in Mar, worked perfectly.

Maybe I am just unlucky with the CSR reps I get.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[esampson]

At a guess there are issues with a phone being required to stand up to a lot more abuse than a netbook. Just being in someone's pocket while they are walking subjects the phone to an awful lot of repetitive shocks. None of them may be very large but there's a lot of them to knock things loose. A good phone also has to be able to withstand slipping out of someone's hand on occasion and have a reasonable chance of surviving while most people would anticipate a dropped netbook breaking under similar situations. Then squish everything down to an even smaller size than the netbook.

So why is the Chinese iPhone so much cheaper? Again, at a guess there are two factors. The first is that all that work to improve survivability of the phone costs money. If a Chinese company reverse engineers a phone designed by someone else they can save themselves a lot of R&D expense. They can certainly save themselves the research on the form factor since they are copying the look of another phone. The second is that they can probably cut corners in the manufacturing. If an iPhone breaks under conditions most people would view as normal wear and tear the consumer is going to bring it back to AT&T who is going to then send it to Apple. Since the phone is being sent to Apple from AT&T they are more likely to accept it and replace it than if it came from an individual so it ends up costing Apple money to replace phones that shouldn't have broken. Plus they have to deal with bad PR. In the case of the Chinese phone if it breaks you can't take it to the carrier. You have to take it directly to them and they can bog you down with paperwork and/or just refuse to give you a new one.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Late Adopter]

I don't know why these phones are so expensive.

Because very few people who buy the product actually pay that price (your carrier doesn't pay retail for your phone), market forces won't drive it down. It's the same reason hotels in fancy casinos charge 4x the usual rate. Book with a travel agent, or a tour group, or through your loyalty card, and you get a much more sane rate. The dummy rate is just there to fleece the few people who will actually pay it.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Lumpy]

Sorry I live in america, I work with americans all day.

They are in fact stupid. Very stupid. and yes a great majority do not have the IQ to understand a cellphone contract, let alone how to turn on the projector and select the Laptop as an input source.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mrchaotica]

You know, I was halfway through writing a rant (about how the bill doesn't go down because the cellular industry is an oligopoly and doesn't offer the customer the choice to have a lower rate without a contract and whatnot) when I decided to add an example. I went to the T-Mobile site to research it, and you know what I found?

T-Mobile, at least, DOES have monthly plans that are cheaper when they're not subsidizing a phone! Their 500-minute "Even More" plan includes a phone subsidy, has a 2-year contract, and costs $40/month. Their "Even More Plus" plan that's equivalent except that it doesn't include the subsidy or contract is $30/month. An actual difference! This is something new.... last I checked (a few months ago), the plans were $40/month whether you got a subsidy and contract or not.

Not that I'm a T-Mobile shill or anything -- in fact, I'm currently an AT&T customer -- but that's actually some pretty good progress!

I wonder if any other major carriers have jumped on that bandwagon yet?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't let the door hit your ass on your way out then. Why are you here if you think everyone is stupid? Possibly becasue you have a job that you couldn't have in your own crappy country? Your country apparently full of geniuses who are so smart, they all come to the US to work? Boy America sure sucks, doesn't it??

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Mister Whirly]

Americans aren't stupid. People are stupid. I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity. I have lived in 2 foreign countries, and have visited several others. The thing you learn most when traveling is people are generally the same everywhere.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Mister Whirly]

Why does it cost me the same for early termination if I want to cancel 23 months into a 2 year contract as it does if I cancel in the first month?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Neoprofin]

Because they don't like people who only pay them month to month, very obviously. Moving you to a higher rate is an enticement to get a new phone, lower rates, and another year or two of commitment.

Why do people suddenly think that the price they pay is always somehow related to the cost of providing the product or service?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[norminator]

I've had T-Mobile unlock two phones for me. You just have to be 3 months into your contract, then either call them or e-mail them, and they'll send you the unlock code within a couple of days. No need to be sneaky.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but of you have a job where you do presentations, and you cant use a projector, you are, in fact, stupid.

In fact the BULK of Americans are, in fact, stupid. I see it in my daily commute and my daily job. I cant help it that the education system here sucks and simply generates stupid people. 3 out of 5 people are stupid. look around, if you spot 2 smart people, then you are the stupid one.

P.S. go wave your fake patriotism flag someplace else.. I hate nationalism, it degrades us real patriots. If you had any clue you would know that Lumpy was born in the USA, so your comment simply makes you sound like one of those drooling morons screaming at the town hall meetings. Go get in your pickup truck and leave, we do not like you rednecks around here.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[norminator]

As a "free market" customer, my goal is to find the best deal for myself, not to see the logic of the seller's pricing or policies.

If those policies affect other aspects of your service, then you may be interested in the logic behind them. If one company has higher fees, but provides a more robust network, and if that is important to you, you may still choose that provider. If another company has high prices but excellent customer service, that may be important to you.

There's more to economics than price. It's all about what you get in exchange for what you give. Not only does the money you pay upfront and monthly make up what you give the service provider, but the contract (a guarantee to continue to pay more money or else pay an ETF) is a part of what you give, so it should be a part of your decision. But what you get back is more than just phone service, so you have to consider all of that as well.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans aren't stupid. People are stupid. I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity. I have lived in 2 foreign countries, and have visited several others. The thing you learn most when traveling is people are generally the same everywhere.

But there are few places where ignorant idiots are so well-organized, vocal and influential as in the US. (And the 'fair and balanced' media is giving retards equal time...)

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

This, this, all kinds of this. I take a gamble every so often on eBay by picking up a phone with a clean ESN (I have to be on Verizon, long story), and it is usually 50% or less of the cost of the phone 'new'.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Mister Whirly]

I have lived in 3 different countries, and visited many others, and I can tell you from my experiences you are making generalities, which are rarely accurate. Stupidity is global, and not concentrated geographically to certain areas. And I am not speaking from second-hand experience, I am only speaking from personal first-hand experience. The more you travel, the less you repeat ignorant cliches others have come up with, and start thinking for yourself.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Rob the Bold]

If those policies affect other aspects of your service, then you may be interested in the logic behind them. If one company has higher fees, but provides a more robust network, and if that is important to you, you may still choose that provider. If another company has high prices but excellent customer service, that may be important to you.

I certainly agree with you that price isn't the only factor given that wireless services aren't exactly fungible. I thought that by saying "best deal" I was covering that without delving so much into the details as to be tedious.

But I am still not really concerned with the logic or method by which a carrier determines its pricing and service structure -- I'm only interested with the end result. Board meetings and focus groups and what-not may be part of the behind-the-scenes process at a wireless provider, but all I really want to know is what I'm getting.

I suppose having a fly-on-the wall viewpoint of (e.g.) Sprint's internal machinations might give me an idea of whether human customer service was going to be offshored or replaced by voice jail or something like that that could impact my selection process. After all, the "free market" presumes perfect information on the part of all parties. But that really wasn't what I meant by "the logic of the seller's pricing or policies". Like most customers, I'm only willing to put so much effort into corporate espionage for a purchase/contract of a given size.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[bemymonkey]

I notice the same thing every day - however, I'm in Germany... Trust me, it's not limited to the US.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[pwfffff]

Well your English skills are certainly shitty enough to be an American's.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[brkello]

That's a long post for something fairly simple. Why don't BYO phone customers get a better deal? Because the carriers can charge what they already charge and people will still buy it. Simple as that.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

damn it, I heard silicon chips are made out of sand, you find that everywhere for free!

So what you are asking is why can't htc 'clone' another device for this new phone to keep the price the same. Why do we need hardware engineers, software engineers to make something small and lightweight and use one charge a day when a larger device can do it all already.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[chrb]

The Tiger G3 is a HTC Hero clone, running exactly the same software, for about 30% of the price (comparing sim-free, brand new ebay prices).

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[chrb]

What percentage of the phone does the chipset patent account for? The patent fees ought to be the same regardless of whether the device is an super expensive smartphone or cheap handset. I can get a brand new 3G basic Nokia handset for 1/7th the cost of a new HTC Hero - the huge difference can't be down to the patents. I would expect that the more expensive phones require more expensive American and European engineers, more marketing etc. In contrast, the Chinese operations are very efficient, labour costs for engineers and assembly line staff are very low, plus the Chinese market is a lot more competitive due to low artificial barriers on trade (ie. fewer patent and copyright issues).

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[wakingrufus]

Actually, T-Mobile just rolled out contract-less plans which are cheaper than the normal ones, but you don't get a phone discount with them.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[david.given]

I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity.

I'm sure that's true, but it is one of your major exports.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Mister Whirly]

In order for it to be an export, someone else has to want to import it. Besides, the US hardly exports anything anymore. Around the time of World War II, the US was the leading exporter of products in the world. Now we are the biggest importer of goods. Thanks Walmart!

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mlts]

How about instead of a title, they either send an unlock code/OTA unlock the phone when the contract ends, or the ETF is paid? That would be only fair.

For CDMA phones, this isn't an issue as much, but for GSM phones, it would be nice to pick up a SIM card in Elbonia when travelling there and use that provider's network rather than hoping for coverage from a US place.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mlts]

Exactly. I have been a long (7 years) T-Mobile customer, and have been OOC since '07. I'm debating myself between three things, either buying a subsdized phone and a two year contract (paying a bit more monthly to amortize the phone's subsidy), buying a phone at retail price and staying OOC (out of contract), or just hitting Google up for an ADP2, dropping a SIM card in and going that route. Since the retail price of the MyTouch 3G, and Google's ADP2 are very close, I may just buy the ADP2 (both are rebranded HTC Magics.)

What makes me wonder if Google would offer the Nexus One phone as an ADP3, unlocked and allowing root access so I can put a custom OS build on it. Except for the fact that this phone doesn't have a slide out keyboard (which does make a difference when you have a ssh client up), it would be an ideal thing to have all around.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mlts]

That right there is why I like T-Mobile. After a while in a contract, their CS will most likely be kind enough to give one an unlock code, especially if one is traveling abroad. This is a courtesy that I don't often see with other providers, and this is one reason I have stayed with them for so long. T-Mobile is the best provider in the US to get if you have an unlocked GSM phone, want to plunk down $20 for a SIM card, and start rolling with a plan.

I REALLY hope T-Mobile gets the Milestone (GSM version of the Droid) if they don't get the Nexus One. In the US, T-Mobile's biggest weakness is that their phones tend to be a half generation to a generation behind everyone else's. Right now, Verizon has the Droid, Sprint has the Moment, AT&T has the iPhone, and there is no real front running star of the show in T-Mobile's lineup if one is shopping for a phone first, network second. T-Mobile needs a kick butt phone desperately.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[ejasons]

I don't mind their increasing the ETF. I do, however, disagree with:

• Not prorating the fee quickly enough -- the ETF is still over $100 a mere month before the end of the contract.
• Charging the same monthly rate, regardless of whether or not the customer received a subsidy for their phone.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[shentino]

Chinese is cheap because they cheat.

By brazenly counterfeiting, they skip out on the R&D expenditures.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[linhares]

Oh, like the Americans do with oil?

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mjwx]

I don't know why these phones are so expensive. The basic parts (touchscreen, processor, memory, case) are cheap...

Not that cheap, I get the impression you are working on the "it's smaller so it must be cheaper model", remember supply and demand there is a lot of demand for identical 7" 1024x600 panels used in EeePC's and other netbooks, with phones the panels are of varying size and varying resolutions with each mixture of size and resolution requiring it's own production line. Batteries are also expensive. With comm's chips it's cheap if they use off the shelf chip sets which most phones do but the iphone has a custom chip built by Infineon (who have only really made TPM's previously, no comm chips though).

This easily add's up to US$400 or US$500, now here's the rub, taxes. You have to pay to get it out of the manufacturers nation and you have to pay to get it into your nation. Often it will pass through some holding nation which will require a small import fee to be paid. For example, to get a HTC phone to Australia, we have to pay export tariffs in Taiwan, import duties in Australia (these are quite high unfortunately) and an import/holding fee in somewhere like Singapore. This is all before the local sales tax of 10% is added, or the vendors overheads and margin.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mspohr]

Batteries are also expensive.

My $71 iphone clone came with two batteries.

the iphone has a custom chip built by Infineon (who have only really made TPM's previously, no comm chips though).

From what I've heard, this custom chip is causing a lot of the poor connection performance of the iphone... it might have been better to stick with something that was proven to work.

now here's the rub, taxes. You have to pay to get it out of the manufacturers nation and you have to pay to get it into your nation. Often it will pass through some holding nation which will require a small import fee to be paid. For example, to get a HTC phone to Australia, we have to pay export tariffs in Taiwan, import duties in Australia (these are quite high unfortunately) and an import/holding fee in somewhere like Singapore. This is all before the local sales tax of 10% is added, or the vendors overheads and margin.

My $71 iphone clone came with free shipping and no taxes of any kind... no duty... no import fees... no export fees... no sales tax... free shipping from somewhere in China to my house in the US.

with phones the panels are of varying size and varying resolutions with each mixture of size and resolution requiring it's own production line

Screens are cheap and will be getting cheaper. There was recently a huge settlement in a price fixing case on phone screens so apparently the manufacturers felt that the already cheap cost of these needed to be augmented to support their profits.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[c0d3g33k]

Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are . . .

Hey, you just insulted someone to make your point. Oh well, I'll still respond politely.

Yeah, my bad - blame it on the Monday morning grumps. I apologize. Thanks for keeping the level of discussion high.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[mjwx]

My $71 iphone clone came with two batteries.

How big and how old. a brand new 1400 MaH battery will be a lot more expensive then an older smaller battery. The standard iphone batteries aren't that good and the iphone clone batteries are even worse.

My $71 iphone clone came with free shipping and no taxes of any kind... no duty... no import fees... no export fees... no sales tax... free shipping from somewhere in China to my house in the US.

That's because export taxes would have already been paid by the manufacturer (as well as "tea money"). Don't know about the US but in AU if it's under A$1000 for a private sale (Ebay or online retailers for example) Customs will leave you alone, if it's over A$1000 you have to declare it and pay tax. If you're importing to distribute then you have to declare it regardless of cost.

Iphone clones go for 1700 THB on the street in Bangkok, that's about US$50. A genuine low end Nokia goes for 500 THB (US$15-17). This is how much tax we pay on phones.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[carnicer]

Thanks Walmart? You sure mean thanks walmart customers. Nobody forces them to buy there.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity.

[I]t is one of your major exports.

In order for it to be an export, someone else has to want to import it.

We're importing your culture. In much the same way that children import sweets, and with much the same consequences.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans are stupid. People are stupid.

FYP operating under the assumption that Americans are, after all, people.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[pecosdave]

Because Apple Fan Boys are the absolute worst abusers of mod power. I've said it before and I'll get marked troll again for saying it again.

Re:I'm so glad I bought a Droid

[joshki]

Tmobile will unlock your phone for you once you've had your account with them for 90 days.

What's the big deal?

[Itchyeyes]

After reading through all the tech blog posts about this phone I fail to see what makes it such a big deal. It runs stock Android, so on the software side there's nothing that actually sets it apart from any other Android handset on the market. It's got some nice, next-gen hardware specs, but then again so does every other Android handset slated for a 2010 release. Snapdragon CPUs and AMOLED displays aren't exactly proprietary technology. In fact, the only thing about this phone that really seems to differentiate it from every other one of the dozens of Android handsets launching in 2010 is that it potentially will be branded as a Google device (oh, and the possibility that it may actually just be a dev phone and never make it to market anyways). So can some please explain to me why exactly everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this?

Re:What's the big deal?

[Skreems]

Reading between the lines on the article (such as it is): it runs Android 2.1, which no other phone currently has. It is built by HTC, but is "entirely Google", and is Google branded. Maybe this is a sign that Google finally realized HTC's Sense UI kicked their asses, and they're working with them to merge it into the core experience?

At least that's what I'm hoping, because on the few occasions I've tried Android without Sense it's been nearly unusable. HTC did an absolutely brilliant job with the Hero given how poor the stock experience is.

Re:What's the big deal?

[MBGMorden]

It runs stock Android, so on the software side there's nothing that actually sets it apart from any other Android handset on the market.

If it's actually running stock Android that might be what IS setting it apart. IIRC, the majority of the Android phones are using customized UI's. While great for trying to establish loyalty to specific phone, having all those different interfaces isn't good for trying to establish loyalty to an actual platform as Google is trying to do. It's kinda like Redhat, SUSE, and the like all throwing their own interfaces onto Gnome. Sure, it's nice, but for the sake of being familiar with almost any Linux box I sit down to I prefer for things to run the plain old Gnome interface instead.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Itchyeyes]

Perhaps you have a point, but I don't think that the Nexus will solve the problem of Android UI fragmentation. For example, the HTC Bravo is also slated for 2010, and also runs a Snapdragon CPU but runs HTC's Sense UI.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Itchyeyes]

True, no phone currently runs Android 2.1, but will that be true if and when the Nexus launches? And even if the Nexus is the 1st Android 2.1 phone, Google and their partners generally role out new version updates to the rest of Android phones within a couple months.

As for the hope that the Nexus spells the end of the fragmented Android UI, I think that it's misplaced. HTC recently showed off their 2010 roadmap, and there are a lot of Sense UI Android phones on it, including a couple running Snapdragon.

Re:What's the big deal?

[bleh-of-the-huns]

I think it has less to do with reinventing the devices, or more about reinventing the US business model of cell phone sales.

In most of the world.. basically everywhere but the US, people buy their phones, and then pick their carrier, they pay more up front (although some carriers to subsidize their phones in the rest of the world) for the devices.

That is where Google is most likely heading, we sell you the phone, you do whatever the hell you want with it, its not carrier locked, pick tmobile, pick ATT (and if they come out with a CDMA variant, hell pick sprint of verizon, although this is unlikely as most of the world uses GSM/UMTS/HSPA networks, very few use CDMA, so its a bigger market and makes sense that the Google phone will be GSM based initially), and have it it.

I am sure this will worry the carriers as they lose control over the functioning of the phone, I do not believe they care about profits from devices, and they sell those at a loss anyway and make up for it in over priced over inflated services.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

In most of the world.. basically everywhere but the US

... and the UK. And probably most of Europe. And probably many other countries around the world.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Itchyeyes]

I've seen people discuss this in other places and I just don't buy it, at least not in the near term. There are already lots of phones sold as unlocked-only in the US (see just about every smartphone made by Nokia), and carriers don't currently offer rate discounts for them simply because they're not taking advantage of the subsidy. In order for the Nexus One to have enough force in the market to force the carrier's hand on rates for unsubsidized phones it's going to have to be tremendously successful (I'm thinking iPhone-like numbers). The problem is that in order to do that, they have to sell the phone unsubsidized with the same rates as subsidized phones. Which makes the cost quite a bit more than competing, subsidized phones. Which makes it all the much harder to reach the critical mass where they can exert pressure on the carriers to cut rates.

Perhaps the Nexus is the phone that finally achieves this. But it's nowhere near a done deal. Even if the phone and the sales strategy were confirmed (which they aren't), it's going to take years before they have enough market force to make the carriers change their ways.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Tacvek]

Android 2.1 will be out before this phone will be out. What I'm hoping for in 2.5 is proper multi-touch support in the core applications (like pinch zoom in the browser), fixes to allow proper hands free phone operations. (Pressing the Bluetoooth headset button when not in a call will call up voice search, which doubles as voice dial).

And a proper solution to apps on SD. That has some issues, such as what to do if the card is removed while running, but on some phones like the Droid, it makes little difference since the battery must be removed to remove the card. But that is only a minor issue.

The next issue is how to best do this. Using unionfs or equivalent to mount the SD card directory over the main directory works ok, although makes it almost impossible to move any apps so they live directly on the phone. The alternative is to just have the phone check more locations for applications (it already checks 3 locations, so what are a few more?

The biggest question is how to handle copy protected apps (not all for-pay apps are copy protected, nor are all copy protected apps for pay). Android currently handles them by putting them in a directory protected with Unix permissions. Unless one has root to the phone the directory cannot be read. Dev Phones are not supposed to be allowed to downlad any copy protected app, so those having root available is moot.

That level of protection is not ideal, but works better than nothing. Google does not want an APPS-on-SD solution to be any less secure. There is an easy way to solve this though. Simple create a file system as a file on the SD card. The filesystem will be encrypted and loopback mounted using the standard Linux facilities for this. The key (generated on first run of the phone) will be stored on the phone itself in the existing POSIX permissions protected directory.

The filesystem inside the loopback mounted file will also have POSIX permissions protection of course. This is where all the copy protected apps will be stored if stored on SD.

----

By the way, besides hacked in multitouch support (which is obsoleted by Eclair with its official multitouch support) what all is in the SenseUI suite of changes?

I know a rewritten home app is present, with 7 (?) pages and a replacement shape for the drawer at the bottom that has 3 buttons, one of which opens the drawer, the second of which launches the phone app, and the third of which, I'm not really sure what it does. It includes several additional widgets for the home screen, with selectable styles (of varying sizes, some that take up a whole page). The status bar color has been made black.

Most of the other built-in other apps looks like they have been rewritten to conform to a new GUI standard, but it is not clear if much functionality was added, at least that was worthwhile. The apparent Social networking integration features it has look like they would need to be integrated into android 2.0's account manager. They also seem pointless to me, Since I'm not a big user of social networks.

I will say though that the visuals of SenseUI are rather impressive, and do look more polished than the default android application visuals.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

This comment is worded exactly as intended. Any lame "Fixed that for you" jokes will make my life meaningful.

Fixed that for you.

Re:What's the big deal?

[bleh-of-the-huns]

I'm not sure what you are getting at, by rates you mean to the cost of the phone, or the cost of the carriers service.

If its the latter, it makes no difference, I pay the same for my minutes, text messages and data regardless of whether or not I bought my phone from ATT (I do have an iphone currently), or I bring my own phone to the table (which I did prior to the iphone, most of the phones I had prior were after market unlocked and $500 to $900 devices)..

Also note that those unlocked phones that you are talking about, in the US, are all pricey, walk into Best Buy and look at their selection of unlocked phones (mostly samsung and nokia).. they are $300 and up (atleast at the glance I saw last night as I walked over to the PS3 isle).

I am not sure what their motivation is, but its google, they can afford to take a loss (atleast in the beginning), so there may be no need to subsidize the phone if they price it very cheap, take a loss, but start the carrier anarchy ball rolling with cheap non subsidized non carrier purchased devices.

Re:What's the big deal?

[hazydave]

Actually, any "Google Experience" phone, like the DROID, is running "stock Android" these days.. that's at least one way to tell for certain. If this really is running HTC's home shell, then it's far more like an HTC phone than any of the other Google-branded phones so far ("Google" on the back, versus presumably "Google" on the front, if this is really to be sold under the Google brand name).

The home shell doesn't matter all that much... the apps are the same. That's where the loyalty is established. As long as the API doesn't change on a per vendor basis, this is safe. And possibly one reason most of the phone vendors are flocking to Android... they have always wanted some way to customize and "brand" their smart phones.

If the only down-side for this is a little necessary customer re-education if they change to a different home shell, it's no big deal.

And as far as hardware differences go, I'm happy to see this bullet being taken now. Android's running well on phones with keyboards, without, small screens, big screens, etc. If the iPhone or the Palm platforms are going to evolve, they're going to run across that issue soon enough, or be left behind. How many iPhone apps are hard-coded to 480x320?

Re:What's the big deal?

[hazydave]

It's technically possible to support it as unlocked GSM, but then you have to support 850MHz, 900MHz, 1700MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz, and 2100MHz in a single phone for universal GSM... that's not usually done. Then you have to sell it with configuration information for the 3G stuff, since the networks are under no obligation to configure your phone for you, just because you connected with voice in a legal way (and have a paid corresponding data plan). This is far from automatic, at least here in the US.

CDMA isn't locked in the conventional sense, anyway. It's simply that each carrier knows the ID codes assigned to them, and they reject the addition of other phones. So unless Google (or the FCC, or Congress) can somehow convince Verizon or Sprint to start accepting non-native ID, or the CMDA vendors move to use the R-UID card standard here, this isn't going to work. They are required to unlock phones on GSM, but the CDMA guys were clever here... they're not locking the phone, they're locking the network, and far as I know, that's still legal.

Fortunately, it's not going to matter all that much longer. Everyone but Sprint is going to LTE for 4G, mostly at 700MHz here in the USA, and it's already law that this has to be open access. Verizon is supposedly going to turn LTE on in something like 30 cities next year, all at once. AT&T's testing next year and rolling out LTE coverage in 2011.

Re:What's the big deal?

[todrules]

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but T-Mobile just started offering discounts on price plans based on whether or not you buy a subsidized phone. They are the Even More and Even More Plus plans. You can choose to buy a subsidized phone, and be locked into a 2 year contract and pay higher monthly rates, or you can buy an unlocked phone (or buy a Tmo phone in monthtly installments) and your monthly plan will be about $10-$20 less a month, and you have no annual contract.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

T-Mobile has plans that are cheaper and do not provide the phone subsidy. Check out their "Even More Plus" plans. I would switch if they had coverage where I live...

Re:What's the big deal?

[wile_e8]

The thing that got me excited about the Google phone were the initial rumors that the phone would would be data-plan only and would use Google Voice. I don't need a smartphone enough to want to pay for the data plan on top of the voice plan, but I would have no problem doing just the data plan. Of course, the latest rumors from this article mention the need to buy a SIM card, which makes me think it's going to be voice plan + data plan like every other smartphone I know of in this country. My excitement level has decreased significantly as the rumors have changed from a completely new way to do data plans to the Droid with Google branding but without the price partially subsidized.

Re:What's the big deal?

[metamatic]

At least that's what I'm hoping, because on the few occasions I've tried Android without Sense it's been nearly unusable. HTC did an absolutely brilliant job with the Hero given how poor the stock experience is.

Funny, I found the Moto Droid a lot more usable than the utterly confusing Hero when I tried them in stores.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

What I'm hoping for in 2.5 is proper multi-touch support in the core applications (like pinch zoom in the browser),

Android phones are perfectly capable of multi-touch gestures but have refrained to implement them due to tenuous patents by Apple.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10161312-37.html

Re:What's the big deal?

[RealTime]

The TMobile "Even More Plus" plans in the U.S. do, in fact, offer lower rates because the do not subsidize a phone. They are BYOP (bring your own phone) plans (or buy one from TMobile at regular price, with financing, etc.).

Re:What's the big deal?

[bennomatic]

This comment is worded exactly as intended, although it contains inaccuracies. Any lame "Fixed that for you" jokes will not be modded into oblivion, as I have no mod rights on threads where I've posted.

There. Fixed that for you.

Re:What's the big deal?

[TornCityVenz]

I run the Dolphin browser on my Droid which handles multi touch and gestures quite nicely.

Re:What's the big deal?

[GooberToo]

Then you've been mislead. Google Voice does not do VoIP. It still requires a voice plan. So unless that changes, whoever told you that is terribly confused.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Dare nMc]

They do, sort of. You can't buy the nook/iphone/etc from any carrier anymore without choosing the high dollar plans (For the iphone it is a $99 /month (not) unlimited plan last I checked.) for the entire 2 years. You should be able to subscribe this phone to the lower plans. I can't find any of the verizon/sprint droid phones for a cash price currently. So this is good news. Generally I am in some wifi area or another, and just want to start the GPS tracking... and drop the cost of paying a second network cost to verizon...
So a unlocked droid phone would get me nearly the same access for 1/2 the monthly fee of a locked one.

Re:What's the big deal?

[ConfusedVorlon]

right - but now Google gets to show the market how they think phones should be managed.

this will have firmware updates when they are available, they'll make sure all the good apps work with it, and most important of all; it sells direct to customers unlocked.

it's just a single step in the ongoing battle over who will 'own' the customer.

the carriers think they should own everything, so they make proprietary interfaces, and insist on crazy restrictions and lockdowns (in return for a fat subsidy).

Google think the customer should be free (or at least free to connect to google services) - so they are putting out an option that doesn't have carrier restrictions, and does everything they think the phone should do.

it's kinda like Chrome. The point isn't to get everyone using Chrome. The point is to put a competitive option out there to force all the other players to move towards it. With chrome, google's aim is to get faster javascript in browsers so people can user their services. With the phone, it will be to show an open unrestricted phone that can connect to google's services well at a reasonable cost.

Re:What's the big deal?

[imgod2u]

Well there are a few reasons the current "unlocked" market doesn't work.

1. The unlocked phones are not powerful phones. People buying these types of phones are the "I'll take anything that's cheap and works" buyers. They just want something to call someone with. Obviously, to these consumers, subsidized phone + contract is better than unlocked phone that you pay for.
2. They only work with certain networks. As you mentioned, even when you buy an unlocked phone, you're still limited by either GSM/UTMS or CMDA.

The phone Google seems to want is not a Razr-class phone; it's an iPhone class phone. This targets people who are perfectly willing to pay $300+ for their smartphone. I know I'm one of these people. I paid $300 for an iPhone and wouldn't mind paying $400 for an unlocked one that works with any carrier.

And that brings us to the question of carrier network compatibility. Luckily, this isn't a problem anymore since Qualcomm released their universal hybrid chip that works with any network in the world. I believe it's rumored that the upcoming iPhone -- a version that'll work with Verizon -- will use this.

If Google does utilize the latest and greatest hardware and actually builds an iPhone class phone with software that matches, there will be geeks lining up to shell out multiple hundreds of dollars for it.

Re:What's the big deal?

[AmberBlackCat]

In my opinion, what sets it apart is with this phone, not only do they get all your search, email, and website data, but they also get your full name, address, and credit card number.

Re:What's the big deal?

[h3]

Well, unless I'm mistaken, you can hook your GV number to Gizmo account and use a SIP client on your phone. That way would not require a voice plan.

Re:What's the big deal?

[analog_line]

There are tons of unlocked phones out there for purchase in the US.

Most Americans, at least until recently, have looked at just one thing when choosing a phone, initial cash outlay. They don't care about contract terms, monthly prices, or anything else. The original, 2G iPhone sold extremely well, but that low $200 entry fee really juiced the ball and got it into the hands of the bulk of Americans. It was the primary factor in getting one into my hands, to be sure.

Now, with the economy in shambles, and credit hard or non-existant, this may start pushing people to no-contract plans and therefore buying their phones outright. As it happens I spent a good chunk of last night researching unlocked phones, and plans with no contract (the contract for my iPhone runs out this June) and it's not hard to find them. The phone companies don't put them front and center, because they don't make as much money on them, but that's only to be expected. Expecting them to give pride of place to their least profitable products ignores reality.

Re:What's the big deal?

[GooberToo]

Gizmo is not GV. I did not say SIP options were not available. But the fact remains, GV is not VoIP and it does not change the equation without other software.

Re:What's the big deal?

[h3]

I was addressing the question of whether one could go data-only and not need a voice plan. I believe the method I outlined fits that model. Whether it's fits certain definitions of VoIP/sip or not, I don't know, but I don't think that's relevant to the topic at hand.

Re:What's the big deal?

[h3]

Also (and this is only partially relevant) : Gizmo *is* GV now ;)

Re:What's the big deal?

[Rich0]

Simple create a file system as a file on the SD card. The filesystem will be encrypted and loopback mounted using the standard Linux facilities for this.

Seems kind of silly.

If the apps-on-SD solution runs on ext2/3/4 or whatever, then 99.999% of phone users won't be able to figure out how to mount it anyway. 99.999% of those who could mount an ext2/3/4 will figure out how to root the phone and bypass absolutely any DRM scheme they come up with.

Your threat model is somebody who knows how to mount a unix filesystem, but who does not know how to follow a local root exploit script posted on the internet. Certainly more could be done to obfuscate things, but that's about the limit of it.

So, why burden the already-sluggish CPU with AES?

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better, if copy-protection has to be enacted, why not just have a system to bind to the IMEI on app install, then if the app is moved to another phone, when it gets run, if the identifying info is different, refuse to run. This would allow the apps to be installed on SD cards, and of course the protection is crackable, but having to go into an app with gdb to find where the app hides this is a high enough speed bump that it would prevent casual users from doing it, assuming they bother rooting their phone in the first place.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Tacvek]

I am well aware of that. That I why I asked for support in the core applications rather than support. Andorid 2.0 (Eclair) provides an official API for multitouch, but the only thing in the core OS that makes any use of it is the on-screen keyboard, and that not in any terribly useful way.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Tacvek]

Really? At the moment people are having a hell of a time rooting the Motorola Droid, even though many working on it know their way around Linux as well as anybody.

Besides, there are tools for mounting ext2/3 file systems under windows, or browsing them like a zip file. All somebody needs to do is write a guide about using such a tool, and then everybody knows.

I'll admit that the copy protection system Android uses is hopelessly lame, and is basically already broken beyond repair, but Google wants to offer some form of copy protection that is at least somewhat meaningful. The current system is secure as up to rooting a device, and I'm sure google wants to keep that security.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Rich0]

Really? At the moment people are having a hell of a time rooting the Motorola Droid, even though many working on it know their way around Linux as well as anybody.

Last I heard it has been rooted already - it only needs to happen once per phone/firmware/etc. Gee, it took all of a week or two. How many people proficient at such things even had their hands on it in the first week on the market?

Besides, there are tools for mounting ext2/3 file systems under windows, or browsing them like a zip file. All somebody needs to do is write a guide about using such a tool, and then everybody knows.

Yup, kind of like rooting your phone. Do you think that the 10,000 people running Cyanogenmod on their G1s all figured out a local root exploit on their own?

I'll admit that the copy protection system Android uses is hopelessly lame, and is basically already broken beyond repair.

Uh, the whole concept of copy protection is broken beyond repair.

To run a program, the CPU needs to be able to read it in the clear. To copy a program, the CPU needs to be able to read it in the clear. How exactly are you going to do one without the other?

The only way you can prevent copy-protection is to retain physical control over the hardware that it runs on. Sometimes you can do that by obfuscating the hardware (smartcard concept), but that is never 100% effective. The only certain way to do it is to run your app over the web or something so that the code never leaves your hands, and then secure the servers REALLY well.

In my thinking the token security on android is enough to be able to say that they gave it a shot at least. Why add stuff that will slow down the phone to that?

Re:What's the big deal?

[Skreems]

I haven't tried the Droid, but from what I understand it's also a custom UI on top of Android. I don't know which is better between Droid and Hero, but I'm quite sure that either is better than the stock Android UI.

Re:What's the big deal?

[metamatic]

I believe Droid is the stock Android 2.x UI. It certainly looks like what I see in the emulator.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Blymie]

I hope there isn't any pinch zoom.. that's horrid.

Most of the time, I have my phone in one hand. Why would I want it to be a 2 hand experience?! Why would I want to have to hold the phone with one hand, and zoom with the other.

Right now, I can zoom in and out with one hand. Double tap to zoom in, triple to zoom out.

Why does double tap offend you?! Is it because another phone uses pinch zoom, and therefore, Android should have it?

Why?

As far as I'm concerned, I hate gestures. They suck. Further, I've used the iphone. It really isn't all that impressive.

It doesn't multitask, it's locked down three ways sideways, it just seems so behind the times to me.

Please keep your pinch zoom dreams, away from my OS!

Re:What's the big deal?

[kurt555gs]

Wow, because rooting the N900 just requires downloading "rootsh" which is in the "Extras" repository. Wow, that was hard.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get why they don't just do what the Japanese carriers do: Have a base rate + loan payments on the phone.

For example, my base rate is about $20 + usage (like $0.10 per minute..) Let's say with all the email and phone calls I make that this works out to an average of $60.

If I got no phone, then the loan would be Zero, so my total bill would be $60.
If I get a $240 phone from them, then I could pay $240 up front, or, I could have it split into 24 monthly payments of $10. (They also discount the price of the phone if you enter into a contract, so an $800 phone might become $400, but still you will be making payments on that $400 phone only until it's paid off).

Almost everyone will do the latter, so then it's like the US, except that when you are DONE paying for the phone after two years, the loan part of your contract disappears, and your rate drops. If you want to buy another phone and start paying a new loan, of course you can, and if you do that every time, it would pretty much put you on par with the "free phone" system in the US if you get your "free" phone every two years.

The difference is, that in the US, you are paying for the new phone whether you want it or not. (And so you are a sucker if you don't take their free phone every two years).

Another thing is that if you want to upgrade your phone before the loan on the previous one is over, they don't have a problem with that, they just add another loan to your bill. Right now I am paying like $5 a month for my original crappy phone (which will soon be paid off) and $20 a month for my new phone (which will be paid off in about a year).

Seems to me that this is the best of both worlds. You can get out of paying for the phone all at once, get a subsidy if you want a contract, *and* not have to pay for phones you aren't getting.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Tacvek]

Why not have pinch zoom? there is no reason not to support that for those who want it, as long as it is not the only way to zoom in. And it would not be. Existing ways like double tap would surely be kept.

They have me sold!

[bogaboga]

I was going to buy Motorola's Droid but I think it is sensible to wait for this one. The good thing it will be unlocked.

That said, I fear for the price tag. This beast might be in the range of US$300-400. If Google can accept a payment plan, I would jump on its bandwagon. Otherwise forking out in excess of 1,000 dollars a year with a contract at 100 dollars a month with a carrier does not make much sense in my opinion.

Re:They have me sold!

[MBGMorden]

Depends - theres a very good chance this will be GSM only which will mean that on CDMA networks (ie, Verizon) you may be stuck with other offerings.

The HTC Droid Passion is CDMA though and supposed to be out soon(-ish). I'm waiting for that instead of the Droid. If I wait more than 3 more months I'll likely get the Droid Eris instead (I kinda like the Eris more than the Moto Droid - I just don't like the swing-out keyboards. seems to prone to break).

Re:They have me sold!

[Corporate Troll]

I just hope they'll be selling them in Europe too.... If so, I'll be first in line. (If the price is reasonable, which the iPhone wasn't at launch time and still isn't if you look at the plans the cellphone companies offer)

Re:They have me sold!

[wc_paladin]

If they have coverage in your area, you could get on T-Mobile's "Even More Plus" plan. It's contract free, and has no subsidized phones, so the monthly fee is a good bit less.

Re:They have me sold!

[bleh-of-the-huns]

Only in the US is the Droid a CDMA phone (see my previous comment further up about the Droid name.. it annoys me). The phone is however available in Europe in a GSM variant known as the Motorola Sholes/Milestone. The currently frequency bands though means it is relegated to edge speeds in the US as neither ATT nor Tmobile use the 900/2100 for 3g (UMTS/HSPA) that the phone has.

However if you go peruse the canadian motorola site, the Canadian version of the Sholes/Milestone uses 850/1900 for 3g, which is what ATT uses.... but its not available yet :(

Tmobile gets screwed either way as they use 1700 for 3G.. so unless the phone was made specifically for Tmo US, you will not get 3G speeds.

Re:They have me sold!

[maccodemonkey]

"This beast might be in the range of US$300-400."

Hah. For a contract free phone? You're looking at $600-$700.

Re:They have me sold!

[TooMuchToDo]

Google may just decide to pay the extra couple bucks per unit and put a proper radio onboard that lets you do CDMA and GSM (all-bands).

Re:They have me sold!

[cpscotti]

Have you ever heard about the n900?
I dunno why everybody continues hyping around skynet's products/blockable devices..
Just go buy your n900 and enjoy pushing Ctrl+shift+x and watching xterm being launched, OTB.
The one phone that you become root of your own device while within the manufacturer's grace.

PS: Do I sound like a nokia fanboi? That's precisely the idea.. we have to deal with apple's and google's ones all the time.. this is my share!

Re:They have me sold!

[MBGMorden]

That would certainly be the best solution. While most of the world is GSM, a HUGE portion of the US market is still on CDMA phones and adding the little bit of electronics to make it dual band would be very wise on their part. Doing the dual CDMA/GSM setup was IMHO one of the few things RIM did right on the Blackberry Storm.

Re:They have me sold!

[bleh-of-the-huns]

It's called LTE.. I did not mention it earlier because the current documents going through the FCC (head on over the engadget, they have a breakdown of the FCC documents), currently show that the frequency bands in use for this phone make it a Tmobile specific device (does not have the 850 or 1900 bands for ATT 3g)

LTE however, atleast in it's base specs, is backwards compatible with GSM/UMTS/HSPA/CDMA and a dozen over specs.

If google was to release an LTE phone, I doubt they would fiddle with those, Verizon on the other hand, would probably gimp the LTE specs to the point where they would be useless on any other network (completely defeating the point of all that compatibility to nickel and dime you to death)

Re:They have me sold!

[TooMuchToDo]

We could only be so lucky for it to be an LTE phone. Bonus points if it can use it's WiFi to tunnel back to Google Voice to provide voice services (similar to T-Mobile's UMA/WiFi capability).

Re:They have me sold!

[lukas84]

I can get the iPhone 3GS 16GB here for 250 CHF with a two-year, 25 CHF/month plan. That's 850 CHF. An unlocked one costs 1050 CHF.

Re:They have me sold!

[Corporate Troll]

Ehm, that's exacly what I mean: an insane amount for a cellphone. My current cellphone was 35€ upfront, got credited 15€ because it came with a 15€ "call free voucher". I only pay what I call, which never exceeds 10€/month with both my cellphone and my wifes cellphone on that contract. (That's TWO cellphones, no kidding!)

Sure, I have no iPhone, but I can surf, email, send SMSes, call (Wow!) and do anything need...

You pay 562€ over two years, I pay 260€ over two year. If you don't see the difference, you need a Math 101.

Unlocked FTW

[ickleberry]

I'm not a google fanboi by any means but this is good news for the general American public who seem to think that the only way to get a phone is to buy a locked one through a network. I havn't bought a locked phone since '99 and the small subsidy they give in order to fob you off with a crippled device is never worth it.

Maybe if this is marketed well there will be more of a separation between device and network. You wouldn't buy a wifi PCI-E card that is only compatible with a certain brand of AP or 'hotspot' network, so why would a phone be any different?

Re:Unlocked FTW

[Cimexus]

Agreed. I've always just gone out, bought a new phone outright, and whacked my existing SIM card in it when I got home. None of this contract crap. But from what I can tell it is very hard/impossible to do that in the US? Which sucks ... I hate being tied to a particular carrier (and besides I have several SIM cards floating around that I tend to use in different situations).

Even worse, the US phones I've seen actually brand the phone hardware/firmware itself with the carriers logo and stuff. Wtf?! The phone should have NOTHING to do with the carrier. The analogy you made with brand X Wifi cards only working with brand X hotspots is a good one.

Re:Unlocked FTW

[alen]

apple tried that with the original iphone. it was $600 and didn't require a contract although it was locked to AT&T because they gave Apple $750 million to help with development. the tech media loved it and said how it was the next cool strategy. it was a colossal failure and AT&T started subsidizing it a few months later

Re:Unlocked FTW

[JDevers]

The problem is that about 70% of American's are perpetually without any lump sum of money and so look at a "payment plan" as a way to get what they otherwise couldn't afford...all that without realizing that the hundreds of other items they have purchased in the past on credit is why they don't have any money...We have an interesting economy without a doubt.

Re:Unlocked FTW

[natehoy]

In the US, by and large, phones are seen by many as a way to access their account with a wireless communications company. Few Americans have the need or desire to switch among various phone companies, and most just want to go in to a store, pick out a phone that they think is "free" or very inexpensive, have it set up for them, and walk out of the store with the phone already working.

The American wireless marketplace is largely set up this way. Carriers generally welcome unlocked/bring-your-own phones and will reward you by not having to sign up for a multi-year commitment, but on the other hand they will generally not offer a discount on your monthly fee. Americans also generally have come to expect switching phones every time we renew our contracts anyway, so if I'm paying a monthly fee it might as well include a subsidy for a phone.

So, basically, it boils down to costs and risks.

If you are relatively happy with your carrier, you take a significant discount off the purchase price of the phone and in return you commit to a 2-year contract. At the end of the two years, you've saved the money because you would have paid the same monthly fee whether you bought your own phone or not. So if all goes relatively well it saves you some bucks.

However, If you cancel your account early, you basically end up refunding the subsidy they gave you. This really sucks because the phone is locked to the carrier (hence useless unless you sell it to another customer of that same carrier, or manage to unlock it). So by getting the phone subsidized by your carrier you lose big-time if you change your mind and want to switch carriers.

You can choose on price (carrier-subsidized phone with lock-in) or flexibility (buy your own phone and SIM cards from whatever carriers you want). In other words, for the price of the subsidy the wireless company is allowing you to sell them your flexibility on that handset.

Most people I know choose on price, and most of the time it works out fine. You do your two years with the phone, and if you're happy with the phone and the carrier you go month-to-month until the phone dies or you decide you want a new ShinyThing, then you go to a carrier and ask them to reopen the subsidy purse and you lock-in for another two years.

Re:Unlocked FTW

[bleh-of-the-huns]

No, they sold out every phone they had at both the Apple and ATT stores at the $600 price point.. those people get really pissed when Apple dropped the price a few months later, and then even more so when the 3G came out at a seriously cheap (compared to the original 2G) price point..

So I would not call it a failure.. however the fact that ATT's network cannot handle the traffic (Voice or Data), is a colossal failure.

Re:Unlocked FTW

[josath]

If paying $400-500 for my phone upfront, and paying half as much for a monthly cell phone contract was an option, saving me money in the long run, I would do that. But unfortunately, in the US, it is not an option. Carriers charge you exactly the same amount per month whether or not you are getting a discount/subsidy on a fancy phone.

Re:Unlocked FTW

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that US carriers don't offer a different rate for unlocked phones. For my (not smart) phone, I pay $60/month regardless of whether I bought the phone through the carrier (at significant discount) or not. I could spend more on an unlocked phone, but it wouldn't change the monthly cost.

The unfortunate reality is that changing the way the current US phone market works is not going to come from the handset makers. It will require the carriers to offer discounted plans for customers with unlocked devices. I don't think this will happen without some sort of regulatory/government intervention.

Clash of the Titans

[kurt555gs]

I have a Nokia N900. I love it. I also love the fact that in this newest battleground M$ is virtually meaningless. I would love to see a movie of the N900, the Androids, and the iPhone done by Ray Harryhausen where all 3 are battling with many arms and swords against a backdrop of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile castles.

I say Good. The fone market is where micro computers were in the early 80's.

Innovation, and chaos!

Re:Clash of the Titans

[ZenDragon]

Isnt this why they were bidding on the C band or whatever it was? I know they didnt end up winning it but I though the whole push was intended to start opening up the market for stuff like this. Definately good for the market, though ultimately probably not good for google. I think making moves like this is definately going to make google a clear target on the FTC's monopoly radar, more so than ever before.

Re:Clash of the Titans

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to google the definition of monopoly.

Re:Clash of the Titans

[the ReviveR]

I also love my N900. Too bad most americans probably won't be seeing it. There is no way any carrier will subsidize N900.

Why?

• Tethering (usb/bluetooth) - Bluetooth makes this too easy, No need for extra software, no need to even take the phone out of pocket
• Loads of free apps with stuff like Star Control 2 (includes 130 Mb voice & music pack) - lots of network traffic with no slice for the carrier
• torrent client (Transmission) - carriers will love this ;)
• When you try calling someone, N900 opens a list with GSM / Skype / SMS /Email /IM for the person - Guess whether people will choose GSM or SMS if they have choice...
• The same internet/video traffic that iPhone has plus then some from using apps like Google maps, other Flash stuff etc.

Re:Clash of the Titans

[kurt555gs]

I actually bought Skype minutes because of the N900. And I have a Gizmo5 account that I just entered the details of into the N900's built in SIP stack. So when I want to make a call, I get to choose from GSM, Skype, Gizmo5. Also, when I am online, and some one with Google Talk or Skype wants to call me from their computer, it just rings and acts like is was any other cell call. There is so so so much more.

I can see US carriers shaking with rage over people's abilities to buy an N900, then go to T-Mobile and get an unlimited voice, text, data plan with no contract for 80 bux a month.

The N900 only works with T-Mobiles 3G system in the US. 2G from anyone.

Non-phone Android?

[sootman]

I'm completely happy with my iPhone but I'd love to have a nice Android-based everything-but-the-phone device (especially with the Droid's screen), like how Apple makes the iPod touch. Does anyone make one?

Re:Non-phone Android?

[Sockatume]

Creative Labs have been working on a reference design for a media player that runs Android. It's still at the prototype stage, which is risky given that it's meant to use their Zii media decoding hardware which isn't getting any younger.

Re:Non-phone Android?

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy one of these and don't insert the SIMD chip.

Re:Non-phone Android?

[qortra]

Is this what you're looking for? Archos Android PMP

Re:Non-phone Android?

[RDW]

Here in the UK, you can currently pick up a T-mobile Pulse Android phone, and add an 8Gb micro SD card, for less than the price of the 8Gb Touch. And that's on a PAYG tariff, so there's no contract to service. Pre-paid 3G net access is only 20 GBP for 6 months on T-mobile, so there's no reason to restrict yourself to wifi either. With full phones at this sort of price, an Android PMP would have to be pretty cheap (or offer significant extra features, like a lot of storage) to be competitive. I wonder if the Touch would even exist if not for Apple's lucrative deals with the iPhone network providers? The price difference between the Touch and the PAYG iPhone (or contract iPhone with the monthly charges factored in) hardly seems justified based on the probable costs of the additional components alone.

Re:Non-phone Android?

[tepples]

Buy one of these and don't insert the SIMD chip.

In the United States, home of Google, Slashdot, and tepples, one can't easily walk into a store and buy a smartphone without a contract. And even if you buy a used phone whose service has been canceled, I seem to remember some carrier-customized phones lock all the buttons if they don't find a SIM; they don't even downgrade to the kind of iPod Touch-class Wi-Fi-only service you'd get from (say) an Archos 5. And you're still buying the GSM/UMTS radio that you'll never use.

Re:Non-phone Android?

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect. I called T-Mobile and they sent me a G1 along with a bill for $379. No contract.

Re:Non-phone Android?

[tepples]

In the United States [...], one can't easily walk into a store and buy a smartphone without a contract. [...] And you're still buying the GSM/UMTS radio that you'll never use.

Incorrect. I called T-Mobile and they sent me a G1 along with a bill for $379. No contract.

That's still mail order. Mail order has a couple disadvantages: no way to try the product's ergonomics before you buy it, and returns of defective product become more difficult and expensive unless an online store accepts returns at its brick-and-mortar branches. And the price still includes "the GSM/UMTS radio that you'll never use."

Re:Non-phone Android?

[nordah]

How about an unlocked Nook?

Confusing title

[lannocc]

Maybe it should read

'Nexus One' Is Google's First Android Phone

?

Re:Confusing title

[jo_ham]

If there's one thing that is certain in the world along with death and taxes, it's that people just don't know how to use apostrophes any more.

In 2050, I fully expect the English language to have a rule that states the apostrophe is required to be placed before any trailing s, regardless of the sentence. Word will autocorrect glass to glas's and so on and you won't be able to turn the feature off.

Re:Confusing title

[jo_ham]

As an addendum, in the case of transposed words, dropping the apostrophe s would make it into a standard news headline, if a little clumsy.

Re:Confusing title

[shish]

The older I get, and the more I learn of the world, the more I find myself agreeing with serial killer vigilante justice...

Re:Confusing title

[Anonymous Coward]

'Nexus One' Is First Google's Android Phone

I think Taco was just making absolutely sure he got the frist post.

Re:Confusing title

[notjim]

Since apostrophes aren't pronounced, getting rid of them will be no ill effect; let's just abolish the apostrophe.

Re:Confusing title

[jo_ham]

I'd love to see what would happen to Loughborough if all the silent letters were removed with no ill effect.

Or climb, muscle, handkerchief, island, salmon, right, tight, write, wrong...

Re:Confusing title

[NightFears]

> of the senten'ce Here, fixed that for ya.

Re:Confusing title

[afex]

they will be replaced with the much more kindergarten friendly "clime, mussell, hankerchif, iland, sammun, rite, tite, rite" (use context clues), and "rong".

Re:Confusing title

[afex]

sadly the above language sort of looks like the news feed from my friends on facebook : (

I hope it starts a trend...

[manyxcxi]

First, I've got a Jesus Phone and love it- so I won't be making any radical switches to the Google Phone. However, I hope it's popular as hell. I hope it makes handset makers realize that they don't HAVE to sell locked phones to consumers in the U.S. If people weren't so stupid (the world would be better off...) they would realize that most 99 year contracts you have to enter into are a way worse deal than the $500 up front for a phone- I guess it goes to many American's credit isn't real money mentality that has lead us to the financial mess we're in, but I digress. By seeing the true cost of phones (if selling unlocked becomes somewhat more popular in the US) makers will then have to compete on actual prices of phones and the prices will go down. America's biggest hurdle is that half (only counting the big four wireless companies) are GSM [T-Mobile/ATT] and half are CDMA [Verizon/Sprint]. I don't know how much extra it costs, or how hard it is to support all the variations in just the US alone, but I imagine it would raise the price of a phone that was truly carrier agnostic in the US- making a $500 investment a little more palatable. If I was shopping for a phone that would be a huge selling point. That and Fieldrunners.

Re:I hope it starts a trend...

[natehoy]

If people weren't so stupid (the world would be better off...) they would realize that most 99 year contracts you have to enter into are a way worse deal than the $500 up front for a phone- I guess it goes to many American's credit isn't real money mentality

My wife's account with Verizon recently reached the 2-year contract limit, and she decided to jump ship to AT&T. Economically, it made more sense to accept the subsidy on the handset than purchase an unlocked handset.

She wanted a Blackberry Pearl. We priced out an unlocked one at about $250, AT&T offered it at $50 with all the subsidies. I asked about a discount for buying an unlocked phone, and was told that there was no price difference per-month for having an unlocked "bring your own" phone.

So, in return for a 2-year commitment to AT&T, we got $200 off the purchase price of the phone. If my wife decides to cancel with AT&T, we'll end up paying the $200 back and have a phone that is locked to AT&T, which is unfortunate, but that's the risk you take for saving money buying the handset. At the end of two years, if she sticks with AT&T, we'll have saved $200 on her phone and she can keep using it on AT&T as long as she wants, or we can get it unlocked and move it to another carrier, or she can renew her contract and get a new subsidized phone.

I understand and respect the advantages of the unlocked-phone model, but the locked-phone model isn't a sign of stupidity or a lack of understanding of finances. It's a calculated risk.

Re:I hope it starts a trend...

[nomadic]

If people weren't so stupid (the world would be better off...) they would realize that most 99 year contracts you have to enter into are a way worse deal than the $500 up front for a phone- I guess it goes to many American's credit isn't real money mentality that has lead us to the financial mess we're in, but I digress.

Americans do a lot of things on credit mainly because in general, credit is fairly cheap in the U.S., not really a matter of ignorance or stupidity. Subsidized phones aren't necessarily a terrible idea, especially if your paycheck is large enough to cover that little more a month in added wireless fees, but small enough that that $500 initial investment would cause a hardship.

oblig. BR

[starglider29a]

I'll wait 5 Revs for Nexus Six. Ok, I might settle for the Verizon Pris.

tyrell corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Nexus? Looking forward to version 6!

Why imply they're deceptive on the hardware?

[atdt1991]

From TFA:

"What's interesting is that the head of the Android project at Google has flatly said, more than once, that the company is not interesting in making or selling hardware. Obviously, this changes things. Granted, HTC is actually making the device for Google, but it will be fully branded by Google and the user experience will be Google's and not HTC's."

Really? The company said it wasn't going to make or sell hardware, and HTC is making the hardware, and this changes things? Granted, Google may put marketing might behind it, but they've not really done so with anything in the past, so we'll see.

Prior art from White Zombie

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought that Rob Zombie was "The Nexus One". He wants more life, @#$%^, he ain't done.

rumor is that it's going to be all VOIP

[alen]

there was a story last month that Google was going sell an all VOIP phone that would work on AT&T and only cost $20 for the data plan. no voice plan required. there is even some company i read about months ago that sells special versions of cell phones that need a data plan and no voice plan and all the phone calls are over VOIP. all on AT&T

AT&T is working overtime on it's being a dumb pipe telecom strategy.

Re:rumor is that it's going to be all VOIP

[Tumbleweed]

That rumour came from Michael Arrington of TechCrunch, so take it with a very large grain of salt. Perhaps a salt-lick, even.

I think it's a very interesting idea (great, even), but it would depend on what data network we're talking about, as most of them in the U.S. are pretty crappy when it comes to 3G. I'd also like to see what happens when you need to call 911 and you aren't near any WiFi access. Cell radio still in the handset for free 911 calls? That'd be a good solution, and quite possibly enough for me to bite.

Re:rumor is that it's going to be all VOIP

[bleh-of-the-huns]

That would be all fine and dandy, except that if you go read the FCC reports on this device, the frequency bands are for Tmobile 3G, it will work on ATT's edge network, but not the 3G network.. for a purely data device, this makes no sense.

Sounds like Google is finally Pushing Android

[BlueCoder]

This is pretty much what everyone in the android community has been calling for.

Google is finally going to push a default phone. And if I had to guess it will
be pretty much sold at cost and be available in both GSM and CDMA. Maybe even
a little below cost depending upon the politics with the carriers.

Google doesn't want to get into the hardware market but this will keep the
price of the phones down and motivate some hardware manufacturers to produce
open phones themselves.

Is it more human than human?

[AP31R0N]

Or is that 5 versions away?

i'll take the Sean Young model.

Re:Is it more human than human?

[L4t3r4lu5]

Want to watch attack ships on fire over the shoulder of Orion?

There's an app for that.

With the new google attitude...

[robinvanleeuwen]

Maybe they'll eavesdrop on your calls to play personalized commercial messages at the beginning of each new call and it saves the costumer calling-costs :-) Now would that be evil?

unlcocked? root?

[Culture20]

So is that unlocked as in "you can use it with any carrier" or unlocked as in "you're allowed access to the root user account"?

Not all CDMA phones use a CSIM card

[tepples]

Agreed. I've always just gone out, bought a new phone outright, and whacked my existing SIM card in it when I got home. None of this contract crap. But from what I can tell it is very hard/impossible to do that in the US?

The carriers with better U.S.-wide coverage[1] use Qualcomm's CDMA2000 protocol stack.[2] Unlike GSM and UMTS phones, all of which store the service info on a UICC,[3] CDMA2000 phones are less likely to store the service info on a UICC.

[1] Not to be confused with international coverage, which isn't useful to people who never travel outside the United States. AT&T has advertised better coverage than competing carriers that operate in the United States, with the fine print stating "worldwide". But in the States, there's a map for that.

[2] Not to be confused with CDMA modulation, which is also used by UMTS, the 3G successor to GSM.

[3] A removable smart card that holds mobile phone service information. It's commonly called a "SIM", "USIM", or "CSIM" card if it holds service info for GSM, UMTS, or CDMA2000 respectively.

Why wait?

[fortapocalypse]

Why wait when there already devices out there running Android OS that will likely be more well-used and supported? Eris or Droid anyone (that's on Verizon)?

Re:Why wait?

[briareus]

One reason: Droid and Eris are CDMA only.

What will REALLY be big news...

[Nerdposeur]

What will really be big news is when someone (probably Google or Apple) introduces a phone with something like the Gobi chip, now being used in some netbooks. It's a "carrier-neutral" chip, so you can activate the device on whatever carrier you like - GSM or CDMA.

The only reason people buy phones from carriers is to get financing (which is what carriers' phone subsidies really are - rolling the payments into your plan and sneakily continuing them forever). If people are willing to pay up front, or if the manufacturer will finance the handset, you can buy a phone and pick your own carrier, or even activate the same device on multiple carriers. This would be a real game-changer, and would push the carriers further towards being dumb pipes.

I think this would be ideal: make carriers compete on network quality alone, and make handset makers compete cross-carrier on handset quality alone.

Re:What will REALLY be big news...

[ergo98]

It's a "carrier-neutral" chip, so you can activate the device on whatever carrier you like - GSM or CDMA.

Unlocking a phone makes it carrier neutral. What you're talking about is being communication standard neutral simply by supporting multiple standards, but that is increasingly a non-standard (CDMA was largely a North America only thing, but is increasingly a US-only thing -- basically Verizon -- after Bell and Telus in Canada left CDMA for GSM).

All of this having little to do with financing your phone.

Unlocked phones sold as devices by themselves would be *wonderful*. I'm hoping that this actually gets carried out.

But I doubt it. Firstly a lot of people are making hay about the fact that this phone is "designed by Google", but so was the G1 essentially (also branded as Google, given to Google employees, called a Google phone, etc). So it seems like a refresh of the position the G1 held and people are extrapolating a little too much.

Re:What will REALLY be big news...

[TheTrollToll]

"I think this would be ideal: make carriers compete on network quality alone, and make handset makers compete cross-carrier on handset quality alone." I think we can all agree that is the ideal, but just how is anything that Google doing going to change that? If everyone starts paying full price up front, there's still no motivation for phone companies to bring down the (much inflated) price of their "service". If google offered a good cellphone service (and sold phones up-front) they might be able to change the status-quo. If they don't have a network they don't have a bargaining chip and the American public has no motivation because they'll be paying extra for the phone and for the service. Unlocking a phone is nice for those crazy phonophiles but for average Joe bag-a-donuts it doesn't warrant the up-front cost without extra incentive (such as lower cost plans)

Re:What will REALLY be big news...

[Pastis]

Unlocked phones exist. At least in Europe. You can just enter a shop and buy a phone without subscription.

Not sure where you guys are living.

Re:What will REALLY be big news...

[Nerdposeur]

What you're talking about is being communication standard neutral simply by supporting multiple standards, but that is increasingly a non-standard

CDMA might be a "non-standard" globally, but in the US, 2 of the 3 biggest carriers (Verizon and Sprint) use it. If you want to be able to freely switch between carriers here, supporting GSM and CDMA is important.

Here's what I'm really envisioning:

• You buy an unlocked phone that will work on any major US cell carrier.
• Carriers offer more and more pre-paid service. You buy some minutes on every carrier.
• You set your phone to use whichever carrier has strongest signal where you are.
• You give out a universal number (like Google Voice) that forward calls to whichever phone number you're currently using (I'm assuming you have one on each carrier)
• To complete the picture, you use a service that monitors your prepaid minutes and automatically buys more from whichever carrier you are using.

Tada! Now you don't care about carriers. Your phone just works, and you just pay for the minutes you use.

Of course the carriers would fight this scenario tooth and nail...

Nexus One

[zen-o-matic]

It has been confirmed that Nexus One is made by HTC.
Some pics of the beast:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/14/exclusive-first-google-phone-nexus-one-photos-android-2-1-on/

And then there's Sony Ericsson's Xperia X10 which is also a KILLER phone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19Lu-JUW1Q
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/xperiax10#view=specifications
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJExGJ4K60

Both are probably hitting the stores in January 2010.

Re:Nexus One

[Anonymous Coward]

I can tell you the Sony Ericsson X10 is *fast*.

It should be out by the end of February.

First Google

[Ophion]

I have never heard of First Google, but I would not get too excited about any product from this company, as I am sure that Google soon will sue it out of existence.

Re:First Google

[MoreDruid]

how long will it be in beta?

That doesn't sound so good. . .

[JSBiff]

I think, *eventually* that is the way mobile telephony should go. . . but. . . AT&T doesn't have good 3G coverage everywhere it has good voice coverage (although, I suppose 2.5G is fast enough for VOIP, so maybe the coverage is still fairly decent). Still, one thing I know is that a phone with basic voice will currently work most places in the country, but I wouldn't be quite so confident about that with VOIP. Another concern is that, with all the problems AT&T has purportedly had with congestion on their data network, I would be afraid that the VOIP quality would suffer (or cut out altogether) because of insufficient bandwidth at times.

Also, I just have a really hard time believing that AT&T would actually take a move that will cut their average revenue per handset down to about 1/3 of what they currently charge. I think most people with smart phones currently pay about $60-$70/mo for service. Why would AT&T allow them to get, basically, the exact same service, for 1/3 the cost?

Blade Runner

[ircharlie]

BTW, Nexus was the name of the project producing replicants (or androids in the book) in Blade Runner. Roy Batty was a Nexus 6.

Here in the US

[tepples]

Here in the UK, you can currently pick up a T-mobile Pulse Android phone, and add an 8Gb micro SD card, for less than the price of the 8Gb Touch.

Here in the US, how much would shipping and customs cost?

Pre-paid 3G net access is only 20 GBP for 6 months on T-mobile

Would such a plan allow free roaming on T-Mobile's US network?

the PAYG iPhone

Doesn't exist.

Re:Here in the US

[RDW]

No idea about US delivery, customs, or pre-paid network availability, but you certainly won't be able to roam cheaply on the T-mobile US network with a UK SIM. I think the unlocking fee is under 20GBP (haven't checked this), so you could potentially use it on any network, but you'd have to check if the local 3G frequency is supported (it's quad band for 2G).

'the PAYG iPhone...Doesn't exist.'

Does here:

http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/iphoneindex/Pay_And_Go/3G_S

The 16Gb 3Gs on PAYG is 440 GBP (in comparison the 8Gb Touch is 149 GBP, the 16Gb is 229 GBP, the T-Mobile Pulse is 137 GBP, and an 8Gb micro SD is 10 GBP).

Re:Here in the US

[tepples]

So in exchange for CCTV surveillance everywhere, UK residents get more reasonably priced mobile data service. I guess some people are willing to make this trade.

Re:Here in the US

[RDW]

'So in exchange for CCTV surveillance everywhere, UK residents get more reasonably priced mobile data service.'

Absolutely!. How else could Airstrip One get a Telescreen not just on every street corner, but in every pocket..?

Of course, in some areas we still have a lot of catching up to do:

http://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6

Re:Here in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you lost the argument about the phone's existence and had to lash out with an off-topic insult to compensate.

Yawn

[Quiet_Desperation]

Wake me when they get to the Nexus-6 model, especially the pleasure units.

I want a new version of the G1

[JSBiff]

There's lots of new Android phones coming out, but HTC seems to have dropped the ball on possibly their greatest innovation - the G1 keyboard and hinge mechanism. Most phones with slide-out keyboards had small keyboards, but the hinging mechanism HTC used for the G1 allowed them to make the keyboard something like 50 percent bigger than any other phone with a slide-out.

It seems to me that HTC needs to do a refresh of the G1, but with upgraded processor, display, Android 2.1, better camera, etc. I want the keyboard of the G1, but don't want to get stuck with older version of Android on a slower processor, with a lower-res display.

Re:I want a new version of the G1

[highvista63]

Right on! I totally agree. The G1 has a great layout of keyboard and hardware buttons. It really irks me to see so many of the upcoming Android phones lacking a hardware keyboard. I don't want an iPhone clone with only one button and a virtual keyboard. It's one of the reasons I chose an Android-based phone in the first place.

Another good article on this subject is here:

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/google-s-nexus-one-phone-coming-in-january-2742

In the US unlocked phones are still locked down...

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's not like an unlocked phone now can be switched to just any carrier.

It's Sprint Verizon, maybe. And T-Mobile AT&T, maybe.

I am not sure about how smartphone differ in this way from dumbphones, but when I tried putting various used Verizon phones on Sprint, it became clear that while the radios would work, the various software support packages from the Carriers wouldn't just accept any phone.

I've heard iPhones moved to T-mobile don't have visual voice mail.

So practically speaking, an unlocked phone is still locked down.

Is it programmed to die after four years?

[KarmaRundi]

I guess after four years you'll be ready for a new phone anyway. Let's see...in the book they were programmed to die as a failsafe. In the movie, it was a technological/biological limitation...wonder which plot they'll follow. And there are three versions of the movie. This could get confusing.

Music?

[kellyb9]

Sounds stupid... but does it play music, and if so, how much storage will it have?

I've seen one

[Anonymous Coward]

Met a Google employee this weekend who had just received their new phone. I did not get to personally play with it but saw it in use. It had a slightly bigger screen than my G1, was very thin, and the UI seemed to be more responsive. They didn't know anything about the actual hardware or what the cost would be. It was running 2.1, which they said should become available on previous released Android phones soon. It had no hardware keyboard, I stopped paying close attention after that, smartphones without real keyboards sacrifice function to fashion and do not interest me. It was very stylish.
It seemed to basically be the T-Mobile MyTouch made thinner and faster as far as I could tell. A nice enough smartphone, but with a dozen other Android phones coming out in the next months I don't really understand why they are bothering releasing their own. Maybe they have some devious plans to become a cell phone company by flooding the market with free smartphones, or maybe they just want a customer base they can beta test the latest versions of Android on without having to deal directly with any existing carriers. Unless they've got something big planned we don't know about I can't see this phone standing out from all the other iphone inspired fashion phones out there.

Re:In the US unlocked phones are still locked down

[bleh-of-the-huns]

The whole visual voicemail thing is a back end service, not a phone provided one. So for Tmobile to support it, they would have to install the infrastructure.

Other then that, any GSM phone with the correct frequency bands will work on ATT or Tmo, including full data, voice and text.

I am the Nexus One...

[RevWaldo]

I want more battery life fucker, I ain't done!
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone

Re:I am the Nexus One...

[AP31R0N]

i couldn't mod your post here, so i gave you +1 Funny on the LoLCat bit in the other thread.

Well done!

Re:I am the Nexus One...

[RevWaldo]

Cheers!

Re:unlcocked? root?

[briareus]

Unlocked is used to refer to the subsidy lock. The second word you're looking for is rooted.

cell phone vs google voice

[Anonymous Coward]

I was under the impression that the phone wasn't a cell phone... no network support, but Google's ultimate goal was to make a phone that purely ran Google Voice on wifi. Therefore, us consumers wouldn't need a cell phone company service provider... just a handset attached to the net.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Google-White-Space-Broadband-By-2009-92928
http://gigaom.com/2008/03/20/verizon-and-att-score-in-700mhz-auction/

Re:unlcocked? root?

[Culture20]

Rooted implies that root access was originally disallowed, but gained by some means. I don't know if there is a term for "you're allowed to use the computer/phone as you want" because that's the natural assumption.

seriously?

[chucklebutte]

How is this even news? The pic being passed around on twitter, looks 100% like my buddies new htc phone by google running droid... So like um who cares? So google gonna release same phone that is already out but its unlocked? I can do that too! Flashing a phone, jailbreaking, unlocking whatever you wanna call it is easy and all it takes is... eh.. a GOOGLE SEARCH! lol So why is this news?

The subject is "Here in the US"

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you lost the argument about the phone's existence

No, he won the argument about the phone's existence within the borders of the United States of America. All of RDW's arguments are UK- or possibly Europe-exclusive.

Transparency

[__aazsst3756]

We need a more transparent system. The subsidy during contract period in a perfect world would be spelled out, and you could see your balance dropping as it is "paid off". Once the subsidy is up it should drop off your monthly bill.

But this is clearly not in the carriers best interest for 2 reasons, people like to think they are getting something free, and the carriers would lose their free money once the contract is up.

I am hoping this is a very compelling phone not sold through carriers

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

they also renaming google to tyrell corporation this is too funny

'Nexus-One' unlocked

[dsektoparchitecture]

I am hoping that the Google 'Nexus-One' is the Internet device I have been waiting to be given to us. I want a truely portable device which is WiFi g/n compatable for searching the Itnternet, while also being able to be used as a portal to the Internet phone system provided through 'Skype'. I don't want any 2 year t-mobile, ATT, or Verizon contract. All I want is the ability to view the Internet with it, and use my Skype account with it through WiFi. It must also come with sufficient memory to be able to be upgraded with future Android versions for 2 to 3 years, and run fairly suffisticated programs through the Cloud. Am I really asking too much for the people over at Google Android?

Re:'Nexus-One' unlocked

[dsektoparchitecture]

Why do we need to subscribe to a 2 year phone contract anyway. Shouldn't we be able to simply use WiFi connections to the internet and to Skype for phone use. I want to simply pay for the Google Phone upfront and simply own it like I would a lap top or a netbook.