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"Nexus One" Is Google's Android Phone
xchg writes "It's still not called the 'Google Phone,' but the Nexus One — to be made by HTC — is as close as I think we're going to get. The WSJ cites sources familiar with Google's plans and says that Google has designed this handset and plans to sell it directly to consumers, unlocked."
Good news, if you need some +5 comments for this article, you can find them here! The dupe system in action.
Because the Ion and DevOne weren'nt "Google Phones"?
...I design your camera! Isn't it bad luck to name any advanced electronic device after a renegade robot from a work of science fiction? I wouldn't shave with an ED-209, or drive a Lexus Bolo.
After reading through all the tech blog posts about this phone I fail to see what makes it such a big deal. It runs stock Android, so on the software side there's nothing that actually sets it apart from any other Android handset on the market. It's got some nice, next-gen hardware specs, but then again so does every other Android handset slated for a 2010 release. Snapdragon CPUs and AMOLED displays aren't exactly proprietary technology. In fact, the only thing about this phone that really seems to differentiate it from every other one of the dozens of Android handsets launching in 2010 is that it potentially will be branded as a Google device (oh, and the possibility that it may actually just be a dev phone and never make it to market anyways). So can some please explain to me why exactly everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this?
I was going to buy Motorola's Droid but I think it is sensible to wait for this one. The good thing it will be unlocked.
That said, I fear for the price tag. This beast might be in the range of US$300-400. If Google can accept a payment plan, I would jump on its bandwagon. Otherwise forking out in excess of 1,000 dollars a year with a contract at 100 dollars a month with a carrier does not make much sense in my opinion.
I'm not a google fanboi by any means but this is good news for the general American public who seem to think that the only way to get a phone is to buy a locked one through a network. I havn't bought a locked phone since '99 and the small subsidy they give in order to fob you off with a crippled device is never worth it.
Maybe if this is marketed well there will be more of a separation between device and network. You wouldn't buy a wifi PCI-E card that is only compatible with a certain brand of AP or 'hotspot' network, so why would a phone be any different?
I have a Nokia N900. I love it. I also love the fact that in this newest battleground M$ is virtually meaningless. I would love to see a movie of the N900, the Androids, and the iPhone done by Ray Harryhausen where all 3 are battling with many arms and swords against a backdrop of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile castles.
I say Good. The fone market is where micro computers were in the early 80's.
Innovation, and chaos!
* Carthago Delenda Est *
I'm completely happy with my iPhone but I'd love to have a nice Android-based everything-but-the-phone device (especially with the Droid's screen), like how Apple makes the iPod touch. Does anyone make one?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
'Nexus One' Is Google's First Android Phone
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-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
First, I've got a Jesus Phone and love it- so I won't be making any radical switches to the Google Phone. However, I hope it's popular as hell. I hope it makes handset makers realize that they don't HAVE to sell locked phones to consumers in the U.S. If people weren't so stupid (the world would be better off...) they would realize that most 99 year contracts you have to enter into are a way worse deal than the $500 up front for a phone- I guess it goes to many American's credit isn't real money mentality that has lead us to the financial mess we're in, but I digress. By seeing the true cost of phones (if selling unlocked becomes somewhat more popular in the US) makers will then have to compete on actual prices of phones and the prices will go down. America's biggest hurdle is that half (only counting the big four wireless companies) are GSM [T-Mobile/ATT] and half are CDMA [Verizon/Sprint]. I don't know how much extra it costs, or how hard it is to support all the variations in just the US alone, but I imagine it would raise the price of a phone that was truly carrier agnostic in the US- making a $500 investment a little more palatable. If I was shopping for a phone that would be a huge selling point. That and Fieldrunners.
I'll wait 5 Revs for Nexus Six. Ok, I might settle for the Verizon Pris.
disclaimer: I despise verizon with a passion, and I also hate ETF's..
BUT.. I do not really see an issue with verizon upping the ETF on certain phones. Lets look at your droid for example (other then the fact that Verizon chose to brand it in such a way as to confuse people who do not know the difference between the android OS from google which runs on multiple phones, and is not a particular phone for verizon, my wife, who is somewhat technically savvy got caught in this particular branding trap).
If you buy the GSM version of the Droid, called the Sholes/Milestone unlocked at retail, it runs around $600 to $900 depending on where you buy it. Assuming bulk purchasing that carriers have, they probably get the phone for around $300 to $500 (total guess on my part). Unlocked non subsidized phones are expensive, even cheap freebies you get on contract can run $200 to $300 unlocked and non subsidized.
They are subsidizing the cost of the phone early and make up the difference and profit in service, but if you cancel early, they have the potential to take a large loss on the device, hence the ETF, so in the Droids case, $350 ETF may or may not make up the amount they are subsidizing, since you only paid $199 up front, or less in some places (I vaguely remember seeing the Droid for $99, at some point).
Now the bigger issue I have is with ATT, who while also subsidizes the phones, absolutely refuses to provide the unlock code to remove the simlock in place on their phones, even after you have completed your 2 year contractual obligation.. so if I want to switch to tmobile, I have to buy a new phone, that is absolutely bogus, and needs to be fixed, granted I have unlocked every phone I have every had, and for the most part I pay more for some unlocked devices, but thats not th epoint.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Then how come my bill doesn't go down when I'm done paying off the phone?
From TFA:
"What's interesting is that the head of the Android project at Google has flatly said, more than once, that the company is not interesting in making or selling hardware. Obviously, this changes things. Granted, HTC is actually making the device for Google, but it will be fully branded by Google and the user experience will be Google's and not HTC's."
Really? The company said it wasn't going to make or sell hardware, and HTC is making the hardware, and this changes things? Granted, Google may put marketing might behind it, but they've not really done so with anything in the past, so we'll see.
there was a story last month that Google was going sell an all VOIP phone that would work on AT&T and only cost $20 for the data plan. no voice plan required. there is even some company i read about months ago that sells special versions of cell phones that need a data plan and no voice plan and all the phone calls are over VOIP. all on AT&T
AT&T is working overtime on it's being a dumb pipe telecom strategy.
This is pretty much what everyone in the android community has been calling for.
Google is finally going to push a default phone. And if I had to guess it will
be pretty much sold at cost and be available in both GSM and CDMA. Maybe even
a little below cost depending upon the politics with the carriers.
Google doesn't want to get into the hardware market but this will keep the
price of the phones down and motivate some hardware manufacturers to produce
open phones themselves.
Your bill doesn't go down because the majority of Americans don't understand that they are paying for their "free" or "discounted" phone over the life of the contract. They think they really got a free phone or a discount. They figure their monthly bill is strictly covering their monthly usage of the service. Therefore, the cell phone service providers can get away with it.
Or is that 5 versions away?
i'll take the Sean Young model.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
I have seen those China iPhone clones which have all of the hardware functionality of the iPhone (with lousy software) for $100 so the hardware can't cost much. The software can't cost much when amortized over millions of phones. Seems like there is a lot of profit in phones.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Maybe they'll eavesdrop on your calls to play personalized commercial messages at the beginning of each new call and it saves the costumer calling-costs :-)
Now would that be evil?
If you don't like my sig then don't read it.
So is that unlocked as in "you can use it with any carrier" or unlocked as in "you're allowed access to the root user account"?
Now the bigger issue I have is with ATT, who while also subsidizes the phones, absolutely refuses to provide the unlock code to remove the simlock in place on their phones, even after you have completed your 2 year contractual obligation.. so if I want to switch to tmobile, I have to buy a new phone, that is absolutely bogus, and needs to be fixed, granted I have unlocked every phone I have every had, and for the most part I pay more for some unlocked devices, but thats not th epoint.
After the third month of your contract, tell AT&T you want to take your phone with you on your upcoming trip to Europe, but that you want to unlock the phone so you can use European pre-paid SIM cards in it. They will add International Roaming to your account (drop it on the website later), and then either unlock your phone remotely or give you the number.
My grandmother had an AT&T phone which I wanted to use on T-Mobile. I gave it to a friend who has AT&T service, who got the unlock code and then gave it back to me.
(Submitted Anonymously to protect the guilty.... :) )
Agreed. I've always just gone out, bought a new phone outright, and whacked my existing SIM card in it when I got home. None of this contract crap. But from what I can tell it is very hard/impossible to do that in the US?
The carriers with better U.S.-wide coverage[1] use Qualcomm's CDMA2000 protocol stack.[2] Unlike GSM and UMTS phones, all of which store the service info on a UICC,[3] CDMA2000 phones are less likely to store the service info on a UICC.
[1] Not to be confused with international coverage, which isn't useful to people who never travel outside the United States. AT&T has advertised better coverage than competing carriers that operate in the United States, with the fine print stating "worldwide". But in the States, there's a map for that.
[2] Not to be confused with CDMA modulation, which is also used by UMTS, the 3G successor to GSM.
[3] A removable smart card that holds mobile phone service information. It's commonly called a "SIM", "USIM", or "CSIM" card if it holds service info for GSM, UMTS, or CDMA2000 respectively.
Buy a cheap phone without 3G, because you aren't going to be able to use it on T-Mobile since the frequencies are different.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
My bill does. I call the carrier and haggle them down on the price after the contract is up, since I can leave and it's cheaper for them to discount the service than to acquire a customer from scratch.
Why wait when there already devices out there running Android OS that will likely be more well-used and supported? Eris or Droid anyone (that's on Verizon)?
What will really be big news is when someone (probably Google or Apple) introduces a phone with something like the Gobi chip, now being used in some netbooks. It's a "carrier-neutral" chip, so you can activate the device on whatever carrier you like - GSM or CDMA.
The only reason people buy phones from carriers is to get financing (which is what carriers' phone subsidies really are - rolling the payments into your plan and sneakily continuing them forever). If people are willing to pay up front, or if the manufacturer will finance the handset, you can buy a phone and pick your own carrier, or even activate the same device on multiple carriers. This would be a real game-changer, and would push the carriers further towards being dumb pipes.
I think this would be ideal: make carriers compete on network quality alone, and make handset makers compete cross-carrier on handset quality alone.
It has been confirmed that Nexus One is made by HTC.
Some pics of the beast:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/14/exclusive-first-google-phone-nexus-one-photos-android-2-1-on/
And then there's Sony Ericsson's Xperia X10 which is also a KILLER phone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19Lu-JUW1Q
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/xperiax10#view=specifications
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJExGJ4K60
Both are probably hitting the stores in January 2010.
Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are, since you just supported the argument made by the parent post while attempting to be contrary. After the obligatory contract period is complete (which is the exchange for getting the discounted phone), why doesn't the monthly bill "strictly cover the monthly usage of the service" instead of remaining at the same level it was while "paying for the free or discounted phone"?
My answer is that the contract period isn't really paying for the phone, it's providing a guaranteed revenue stream for the company for a specified period of time. A steady, guaranteed revenue stream is very important for a business, since it makes things a bit more predictable.
For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.
I have never heard of First Google, but I would not get too excited about any product from this company, as I am sure that Google soon will sue it out of existence.
I think, *eventually* that is the way mobile telephony should go. . . but. . . AT&T doesn't have good 3G coverage everywhere it has good voice coverage (although, I suppose 2.5G is fast enough for VOIP, so maybe the coverage is still fairly decent). Still, one thing I know is that a phone with basic voice will currently work most places in the country, but I wouldn't be quite so confident about that with VOIP. Another concern is that, with all the problems AT&T has purportedly had with congestion on their data network, I would be afraid that the VOIP quality would suffer (or cut out altogether) because of insufficient bandwidth at times.
Also, I just have a really hard time believing that AT&T would actually take a move that will cut their average revenue per handset down to about 1/3 of what they currently charge. I think most people with smart phones currently pay about $60-$70/mo for service. Why would AT&T allow them to get, basically, the exact same service, for 1/3 the cost?
You forgot to factor in patent fees. They probably won't get paid for the cheap Chinese knockoffs.
AFAIK a 3g connection module with royalties costs over $100 per device alone.
BTW, Nexus was the name of the project producing replicants (or androids in the book) in Blade Runner. Roy Batty was a Nexus 6.
Here in the UK, you can currently pick up a T-mobile Pulse Android phone, and add an 8Gb micro SD card, for less than the price of the 8Gb Touch.
Here in the US, how much would shipping and customs cost?
Pre-paid 3G net access is only 20 GBP for 6 months on T-mobile
Would such a plan allow free roaming on T-Mobile's US network?
the PAYG iPhone
Doesn't exist.
Wake me when they get to the Nexus-6 model, especially the pleasure units.
There's lots of new Android phones coming out, but HTC seems to have dropped the ball on possibly their greatest innovation - the G1 keyboard and hinge mechanism. Most phones with slide-out keyboards had small keyboards, but the hinging mechanism HTC used for the G1 allowed them to make the keyboard something like 50 percent bigger than any other phone with a slide-out.
It seems to me that HTC needs to do a refresh of the G1, but with upgraded processor, display, Android 2.1, better camera, etc. I want the keyboard of the G1, but don't want to get stuck with older version of Android on a slower processor, with a lower-res display.
I thought phone companies were required by law to provide unlock codes. Was I mistaken? I know my wife has gotten two AT&T phones unlocked over the past couple of years... maybe she just got the nice rep.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are . . .
Hey, you just insulted someone to make your point. Oh well, I'll still respond politely.
My answer is that the contract period isn't really paying for the phone, it's providing a guaranteed revenue stream for the company for a specified period of time. A steady, guaranteed revenue stream is very important for a business, since it makes things a bit more predictable.
Isn't that really splitting hairs? To say that they carrier is providing you with a free or discounted phone to get you to sign a 2 year contract isn't meaningfully distinct from letting you finance the phone over a two-year period. Perhaps it makes a difference to the carrier's accounting, but that's none of the customer's concern.
But even it that were true, that the two-year contract was what the carrier was getting in exchange for the discount phone, why then wouldn't a carrier offer someone who brought their own equipment a somewhat discounted two-year plan? That way they could still get a steady, guaranteed revenue stream for predictability. If they entice the "free phone" crowd with a phone (which costs the carrier something), then why not entice the BYO crowd with a somewhat lower monthly fee, reflecting the lower initial cost due to not providing a discount phone.
Or perhaps, the discount phone really isn't discounted. Perhaps it isn't a loss leader at all, and is just sold to the customer for roughly its cost to the carrier. That would explain why monthly fees aren't discounted for BYO users and also don't go down at the end of the contract: namely, the carrier got a 2-year lock-in from the customer for essentially free.
By way of anecdotal evidence, I offer the case of my wife (then girlfriend). She got a run-of-the-mill phone from SBC (then Cingular then ATT) for the "discounted" price of ~$50. In exchange, she signed a 2-year contract for service, and was talked into an "insurance policy" for the instrument. The policy cost around $7 a month. When she dropped the phone (for the last time), she went to take advantage of the "insurance policy". Doing so required her to pay a $40 "administrative fee" in order to get a replacement phone. I talked her out of that and got her a new phone equivalent to her old one off ebay for $40. She canceled the "insurance policy" after I explained that she could buy 2 new phones per year for the cost of the policy, or 4 new phones for the cost of the policy and two claims.
Anyway, the original "discounted phone" and its replacement were no cheaper than buying an unlocked instrument from a third party. She received nothing of value for signing the contract or for paying for "phone insurance".
I am not a crackpot.
For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.
Unless you're dissatisfied with your carrier for some other reason, why not mention the name and the method you used to get the deal?
I am not a crackpot.
BUT.. I do not really see an issue with verizon upping the ETF on certain phones. Lets look at your droid for example (other then the fact that Verizon chose to brand it in such a way as to confuse people who do not know the difference between the android OS from google which runs on multiple phones, and is not a particular phone for verizon, my wife, who is somewhat technically savvy got caught in this particular branding trap).
As a "free market" customer, my goal is to find the best deal for myself, not to see the logic of the seller's pricing or policies. I don't care why a carrier charges a large ETF, I just want to find the smallest one. If I were a carrier, OTOH, I definitely would be explaining to my customers the reason they should just shut up and accept whatever I wanted to charge.
If you buy the GSM version of the Droid, called the Sholes/Milestone unlocked at retail, it runs around $600 to $900 depending on where you buy it. Assuming bulk purchasing that carriers have, they probably get the phone for around $300 to $500 (total guess on my part). Unlocked non subsidized phones are expensive, even cheap freebies you get on contract can run $200 to $300 unlocked and non subsidized.
Phones equivalent to the "cheap freebies" you mention are available (e.g on ebay -- new) for under $100, some for $25-$50. If you find eBaying a phone a little iffy and unsavory, you can get similar deals in the Amazon Marketplace.
I am not a crackpot.
@bleh - That's funny that you mention problems getting the unlock code - I've had no such problems, even in the middle of a contract. Just call them up and ask, and they give it to me. Couldn't be more straightforward unless they were to put it on a card in the box with the phone. Maybe you just have to be more polite?
It does, in theory, by virtue of your termination fee being prorated. What you should be asking is why the fee schedule is so badly unbalanced.
If you think they can be made and sold for a profit more cheaply then what are you waiting for? Go into business and do it, then sit back and count your millions!
Customer apathy.
Or to put it another way, it's the same reason why your bank doesn't phone you up and point out that they have a great new account with a much higher rate of interest.
A lot of operators will either give you a discount or let you move to a SIM only tariff which is much better value. However just because you can't be bothered to find out what your options are, doesn't mean that they are going to make all the effort to tell you.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
This new phone will be GSM, so it won't work on Verizon anyway.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I guess after four years you'll be ready for a new phone anyway. Let's see...in the book they were programmed to die as a failsafe. In the movie, it was a technological/biological limitation...wonder which plot they'll follow. And there are three versions of the movie. This could get confusing.
No, actually it has to do with whatever rating you have at your phone provider.
Numerous things count into that rating - how much your bill is, if you pay it on time, how often you buy a new phone, how often you call the hotline to ask about stupid shit and on what kind of plan you are (business, private) etc. pp.
The easiest distinction is usually seen between business and private contracts - i have my phone on a business contract (together with 20 other phones), and when the iPhone was released here, you had to wait 2-4 weeks to get one (as a few of my friends in store told me). I wanted one too, but as lazy as i was i didn't go to any store - i just called them up, asked about iPhone availability, they asked for my phone number and corporate account number, told me that they had them on stock and i got it in the mail the next day.
That's what a good CRM system gets you - the more you pay, the better service you get.
Better question: Why does my bill go up when I'm done paying off the phone?
Yes when you leave contract AT&T charges more. That's my primary problem with getting a phone elsewhere I have to pay the higher bill for the phone and for the service. I've talked to customer service about two years ago because the store was refusing to give me a new phone and my bill was getting really high; they flat admitted I would be better of switching carriers. It took 5 phone calls to get a rep who put a note in saying to give me a new phone since I was out of contract.
Offtopic: After the past two years, just stay away from AT&T. Two correct bills in 22 months; its just not worth it. Usually I can get a credit for amounts > $10, but the 4+ hours argueing just isn't worth it.
Sounds stupid... but does it play music, and if so, how much storage will it have?
Not sure why this is getting marked as a troll as I found a couple of articles that talk about Apple's royality troubles.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/29/nokia-vs-apple-the-in-depth-analysis/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/36317-apple-s-iphone-and-the-future-of-qualcomm-part-ii
For the past 6 years or so I've been getting contracts w/o a phone (I buy new phones from private sellers who've gotten phones they don't want with their contracts) and my rates are about half of what they would be if I had gotten plans with a phone.
Unless you're dissatisfied with your carrier for some other reason, why not mention the name and the method you used to get the deal?
Shush this is the internet, proof is for the weak...
You really need to back this up. $100 sounds way, way too high, especially since you can get a 3G aircard for $100 with no contract. In general, most royalties are relatively low on a per-device basis, making it up on the fact that there are hundreds of millions of the devices.
(Practicing what I preach....)
http://www.replaceyourcell.com/product/881U_BLACK_AIRCARD?meta=FRG&utm_source=GBASE&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=&utm_campaign=
Weird, bunch of replies that have been successful, I am always nice and courteous (hell I did ISP tech support at the beginning of my career, I know what it is like on the other end of the phone), yet I get cited company policy in the few times I tried. once was with the tilt2 (I ended up unlocking it and cooking my own rom so that became a non issue), and of course then there is the iphone, which I would have preferred to get unlocked legitimately, if that is even possible, but I jailbroke and unlocked it anyways, I used it when I went to South Africa in Mar, worked perfectly.
Maybe I am just unlucky with the CSR reps I get.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
The whole visual voicemail thing is a back end service, not a phone provided one. So for Tmobile to support it, they would have to install the infrastructure.
Other then that, any GSM phone with the correct frequency bands will work on ATT or Tmo, including full data, voice and text.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
At a guess there are issues with a phone being required to stand up to a lot more abuse than a netbook. Just being in someone's pocket while they are walking subjects the phone to an awful lot of repetitive shocks. None of them may be very large but there's a lot of them to knock things loose. A good phone also has to be able to withstand slipping out of someone's hand on occasion and have a reasonable chance of surviving while most people would anticipate a dropped netbook breaking under similar situations. Then squish everything down to an even smaller size than the netbook.
So why is the Chinese iPhone so much cheaper? Again, at a guess there are two factors. The first is that all that work to improve survivability of the phone costs money. If a Chinese company reverse engineers a phone designed by someone else they can save themselves a lot of R&D expense. They can certainly save themselves the research on the form factor since they are copying the look of another phone. The second is that they can probably cut corners in the manufacturing. If an iPhone breaks under conditions most people would view as normal wear and tear the consumer is going to bring it back to AT&T who is going to then send it to Apple. Since the phone is being sent to Apple from AT&T they are more likely to accept it and replace it than if it came from an individual so it ends up costing Apple money to replace phones that shouldn't have broken. Plus they have to deal with bad PR. In the case of the Chinese phone if it breaks you can't take it to the carrier. You have to take it directly to them and they can bog you down with paperwork and/or just refuse to give you a new one.
I don't know why these phones are so expensive.
Because very few people who buy the product actually pay that price (your carrier doesn't pay retail for your phone), market forces won't drive it down. It's the same reason hotels in fancy casinos charge 4x the usual rate. Book with a travel agent, or a tour group, or through your loyalty card, and you get a much more sane rate. The dummy rate is just there to fleece the few people who will actually pay it.
You know, I was halfway through writing a rant (about how the bill doesn't go down because the cellular industry is an oligopoly and doesn't offer the customer the choice to have a lower rate without a contract and whatnot) when I decided to add an example. I went to the T-Mobile site to research it, and you know what I found?
T-Mobile, at least, DOES have monthly plans that are cheaper when they're not subsidizing a phone! Their 500-minute "Even More" plan includes a phone subsidy, has a 2-year contract, and costs $40/month. Their "Even More Plus" plan that's equivalent except that it doesn't include the subsidy or contract is $30/month. An actual difference! This is something new.... last I checked (a few months ago), the plans were $40/month whether you got a subsidy and contract or not.
Not that I'm a T-Mobile shill or anything -- in fact, I'm currently an AT&T customer -- but that's actually some pretty good progress!
I wonder if any other major carriers have jumped on that bandwagon yet?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Americans aren't stupid. People are stupid. I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity. I have lived in 2 foreign countries, and have visited several others. The thing you learn most when traveling is people are generally the same everywhere.
"But this one goes to 11!"
Why does it cost me the same for early termination if I want to cancel 23 months into a 2 year contract as it does if I cancel in the first month?
"But this one goes to 11!"
Because they don't like people who only pay them month to month, very obviously. Moving you to a higher rate is an enticement to get a new phone, lower rates, and another year or two of commitment.
Why do people suddenly think that the price they pay is always somehow related to the cost of providing the product or service?
I've had T-Mobile unlock two phones for me. You just have to be 3 months into your contract, then either call them or e-mail them, and they'll send you the unlock code within a couple of days. No need to be sneaky.
As a "free market" customer, my goal is to find the best deal for myself, not to see the logic of the seller's pricing or policies.
If those policies affect other aspects of your service, then you may be interested in the logic behind them. If one company has higher fees, but provides a more robust network, and if that is important to you, you may still choose that provider. If another company has high prices but excellent customer service, that may be important to you.
There's more to economics than price. It's all about what you get in exchange for what you give. Not only does the money you pay upfront and monthly make up what you give the service provider, but the contract (a guarantee to continue to pay more money or else pay an ETF) is a part of what you give, so it should be a part of your decision. But what you get back is more than just phone service, so you have to consider all of that as well.
I have lived in 3 different countries, and visited many others, and I can tell you from my experiences you are making generalities, which are rarely accurate. Stupidity is global, and not concentrated geographically to certain areas. And I am not speaking from second-hand experience, I am only speaking from personal first-hand experience. The more you travel, the less you repeat ignorant cliches others have come up with, and start thinking for yourself.
"But this one goes to 11!"
If those policies affect other aspects of your service, then you may be interested in the logic behind them. If one company has higher fees, but provides a more robust network, and if that is important to you, you may still choose that provider. If another company has high prices but excellent customer service, that may be important to you.
I certainly agree with you that price isn't the only factor given that wireless services aren't exactly fungible. I thought that by saying "best deal" I was covering that without delving so much into the details as to be tedious.
But I am still not really concerned with the logic or method by which a carrier determines its pricing and service structure -- I'm only interested with the end result. Board meetings and focus groups and what-not may be part of the behind-the-scenes process at a wireless provider, but all I really want to know is what I'm getting.
I suppose having a fly-on-the wall viewpoint of (e.g.) Sprint's internal machinations might give me an idea of whether human customer service was going to be offshored or replaced by voice jail or something like that that could impact my selection process. After all, the "free market" presumes perfect information on the part of all parties. But that really wasn't what I meant by "the logic of the seller's pricing or policies". Like most customers, I'm only willing to put so much effort into corporate espionage for a purchase/contract of a given size.
I am not a crackpot.
I want more battery life fucker, I ain't done!
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
More cellphone than cellphone
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
I notice the same thing every day - however, I'm in Germany... Trust me, it's not limited to the US.
Unlocked is used to refer to the subsidy lock. The second word you're looking for is rooted.
Well your English skills are certainly shitty enough to be an American's.
Rooted implies that root access was originally disallowed, but gained by some means. I don't know if there is a term for "you're allowed to use the computer/phone as you want" because that's the natural assumption.
That's a long post for something fairly simple. Why don't BYO phone customers get a better deal? Because the carriers can charge what they already charge and people will still buy it. Simple as that.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
The Tiger G3 is a HTC Hero clone, running exactly the same software, for about 30% of the price (comparing sim-free, brand new ebay prices).
What percentage of the phone does the chipset patent account for? The patent fees ought to be the same regardless of whether the device is an super expensive smartphone or cheap handset. I can get a brand new 3G basic Nokia handset for 1/7th the cost of a new HTC Hero - the huge difference can't be down to the patents. I would expect that the more expensive phones require more expensive American and European engineers, more marketing etc. In contrast, the Chinese operations are very efficient, labour costs for engineers and assembly line staff are very low, plus the Chinese market is a lot more competitive due to low artificial barriers on trade (ie. fewer patent and copyright issues).
Actually, T-Mobile just rolled out contract-less plans which are cheaper than the normal ones, but you don't get a phone discount with them.
I don't think the US has an exclusive monopoly on stupidity.
I'm sure that's true, but it is one of your major exports.
In order for it to be an export, someone else has to want to import it. Besides, the US hardly exports anything anymore. Around the time of World War II, the US was the leading exporter of products in the world. Now we are the biggest importer of goods. Thanks Walmart!
"But this one goes to 11!"
How about instead of a title, they either send an unlock code/OTA unlock the phone when the contract ends, or the ETF is paid? That would be only fair.
For CDMA phones, this isn't an issue as much, but for GSM phones, it would be nice to pick up a SIM card in Elbonia when travelling there and use that provider's network rather than hoping for coverage from a US place.
Exactly. I have been a long (7 years) T-Mobile customer, and have been OOC since '07. I'm debating myself between three things, either buying a subsdized phone and a two year contract (paying a bit more monthly to amortize the phone's subsidy), buying a phone at retail price and staying OOC (out of contract), or just hitting Google up for an ADP2, dropping a SIM card in and going that route. Since the retail price of the MyTouch 3G, and Google's ADP2 are very close, I may just buy the ADP2 (both are rebranded HTC Magics.)
What makes me wonder if Google would offer the Nexus One phone as an ADP3, unlocked and allowing root access so I can put a custom OS build on it. Except for the fact that this phone doesn't have a slide out keyboard (which does make a difference when you have a ssh client up), it would be an ideal thing to have all around.
That right there is why I like T-Mobile. After a while in a contract, their CS will most likely be kind enough to give one an unlock code, especially if one is traveling abroad. This is a courtesy that I don't often see with other providers, and this is one reason I have stayed with them for so long. T-Mobile is the best provider in the US to get if you have an unlocked GSM phone, want to plunk down $20 for a SIM card, and start rolling with a plan.
I REALLY hope T-Mobile gets the Milestone (GSM version of the Droid) if they don't get the Nexus One. In the US, T-Mobile's biggest weakness is that their phones tend to be a half generation to a generation behind everyone else's. Right now, Verizon has the Droid, Sprint has the Moment, AT&T has the iPhone, and there is no real front running star of the show in T-Mobile's lineup if one is shopping for a phone first, network second. T-Mobile needs a kick butt phone desperately.
I don't mind their increasing the ETF. I do, however, disagree with:
We need a more transparent system. The subsidy during contract period in a perfect world would be spelled out, and you could see your balance dropping as it is "paid off". Once the subsidy is up it should drop off your monthly bill.
But this is clearly not in the carriers best interest for 2 reasons, people like to think they are getting something free, and the carriers would lose their free money once the contract is up.
I am hoping this is a very compelling phone not sold through carriers
Chinese is cheap because they cheat.
By brazenly counterfeiting, they skip out on the R&D expenditures.
Oh, like the Americans do with oil?
Not that cheap, I get the impression you are working on the "it's smaller so it must be cheaper model", remember supply and demand there is a lot of demand for identical 7" 1024x600 panels used in EeePC's and other netbooks, with phones the panels are of varying size and varying resolutions with each mixture of size and resolution requiring it's own production line. Batteries are also expensive. With comm's chips it's cheap if they use off the shelf chip sets which most phones do but the iphone has a custom chip built by Infineon (who have only really made TPM's previously, no comm chips though).
This easily add's up to US$400 or US$500, now here's the rub, taxes. You have to pay to get it out of the manufacturers nation and you have to pay to get it into your nation. Often it will pass through some holding nation which will require a small import fee to be paid. For example, to get a HTC phone to Australia, we have to pay export tariffs in Taiwan, import duties in Australia (these are quite high unfortunately) and an import/holding fee in somewhere like Singapore. This is all before the local sales tax of 10% is added, or the vendors overheads and margin.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
My $71 iphone clone came with two batteries.
From what I've heard, this custom chip is causing a lot of the poor connection performance of the iphone... it might have been better to stick with something that was proven to work.
My $71 iphone clone came with free shipping and no taxes of any kind... no duty... no import fees... no export fees... no sales tax... free shipping from somewhere in China to my house in the US.
Screens are cheap and will be getting cheaper. There was recently a huge settlement in a price fixing case on phone screens so apparently the manufacturers felt that the already cheap cost of these needed to be augmented to support their profits.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Americans aren't stupid, but you apparently are . . .
Hey, you just insulted someone to make your point. Oh well, I'll still respond politely.
Yeah, my bad - blame it on the Monday morning grumps. I apologize. Thanks for keeping the level of discussion high.
How big and how old. a brand new 1400 MaH battery will be a lot more expensive then an older smaller battery. The standard iphone batteries aren't that good and the iphone clone batteries are even worse.
That's because export taxes would have already been paid by the manufacturer (as well as "tea money"). Don't know about the US but in AU if it's under A$1000 for a private sale (Ebay or online retailers for example) Customs will leave you alone, if it's over A$1000 you have to declare it and pay tax. If you're importing to distribute then you have to declare it regardless of cost.
Iphone clones go for 1700 THB on the street in Bangkok, that's about US$50. A genuine low end Nokia goes for 500 THB (US$15-17). This is how much tax we pay on phones.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Thanks Walmart? You sure mean thanks walmart customers. Nobody forces them to buy there.
Because Apple Fan Boys are the absolute worst abusers of mod power. I've said it before and I'll get marked troll again for saying it again.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Tmobile will unlock your phone for you once you've had your account with them for 90 days.
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
I am hoping that the Google 'Nexus-One' is the Internet device I have been waiting to be given to us. I want a truely portable device which is WiFi g/n compatable for searching the Itnternet, while also being able to be used as a portal to the Internet phone system provided through 'Skype'. I don't want any 2 year t-mobile, ATT, or Verizon contract. All I want is the ability to view the Internet with it, and use my Skype account with it through WiFi. It must also come with sufficient memory to be able to be upgraded with future Android versions for 2 to 3 years, and run fairly suffisticated programs through the Cloud. Am I really asking too much for the people over at Google Android?