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Judge Orders Permanent Injunction Against Psystar

AdmiralXyz writes "It appears to be the end of the road for infamous Mac clone-maker Psystar, as a federal judge has issued a permanent injunction against the company, banning it from selling its OS X-based hardware products, following November's ruling that Psystar was guilty of copyright infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Specifically, Judge William Alsup's ruling prevents Psystar from 'copying, selling, offering to sell, distributing or creating derivative works of Mac OS X without authorization from Apple; circumventing any technological measure that effectively controls access Mac OS X; or doing anything to circumvent the rights held by Apple under the Copyright Act with respect to Mac OS X.' The ruling does not include Psystar's Rebel EFI software, which (in theory) allows users to boot OS X onto some Intel computers, but Alsup said that too would be unlikely to stand up in court if Apple decides to make a formal challenge."

242 comments

  1. Either Way by flyneye · · Score: 2, Funny

    Injunction or not, it would still be shot at the Israel border as ''Not Kosher".

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    1. Re:Either Way by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      Happy Hanukkah everyone, Ill be here all night!

    2. Re:Either Way by truthsearch · · Score: 1

      Best. Segue. Ever.

      You could write for Letterman.

    3. Re:Either Way by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      So you waited until they won the case and didn't take issue with the fact that Apple made the motion in the first place?

    4. Re:Either Way by tyrione · · Score: 1

      I just smashed my Mac Mini. I hit it with a hammer until it was in pieces. I had bought it only about two months ago, but after this I will no longer buy, nor even use, Apple products.

      I'm now using Linux on my old desktop, rather than supporting Apple by using their products. It was an enjoyable system to use, but it is not worth it if I have to live with knowing that freedom is being stifled like this for no good reason.

      Get rid of that CUPS printing on Linux. Don't use zeroconf. Don't ever install LLVM or GCC ObjC and remove all web browsers with WebKit. You wouldn't want to be seen as a hypocrite.

    5. Re:Either Way by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Ha-ha! /Nelson

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    6. Re:Either Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just smashed my Mac Mini. I hit it with a hammer until it was in pieces.

      Pics or didn't happen.

    7. Re:Either Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have a printer, so I don't even bother to install CUPS.

      My network uses DHCP instead of zeroconf.

      No Linux software worth running is written in Objective-C, so I only install the packages for GCC and G++. GCC compiles everything that LLVM does, and generates better code, so I have no need for LLVM.

      I use Firefox, not Chrome.

      Frankly, Apple's open source contributions have been quite negligible. Good try, though, with your attempt to make it sound like the projects they've essentially "bought out" are somehow critical.

    8. Re:Either Way by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand what zeroconf actually is. It's not just a replacement for DHCP.

      It's amusing that you think Apple's open source contributions are "quite negligible". Compared to yours perhaps?

      And nowhere did the GP assert that those open source projects that Apple has "bought out" (wtf?! so, because they contributed to them, they have somehow bought them out or 'tainted' them? If you don't like their contributions just fork it - that's what OSS is all about right) were in any way critical, just that Apple had made contributions to them, so just to make sure you cross them off your list on your anti-Apple crusade so you don;t look silly when you say "I never use anything made by Apple" in a post from a Webkit-powered browser.

    9. Re:Either Way by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      And if you have a 1394 interface on your mobo you should break out the soldering iron and get that freedom sucking plug out of your life.

      With the exception of a short period of time way back in OS7 land, Apple has always blocked attempts to run their software on other peoples hardware. If they have not gone after PearC yet, they are no doubt working towards that goal.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_clone#Official_Macintosh_clone_program

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    10. Re:Either Way by zieroh · · Score: 1

      I just smashed my Mac Mini. I hit it with a hammer until it was in pieces.

      See, now that was a dumb thing to do. If you had sold it, your actions would have had an impact on the company (however small) by denying them a sale from the person who bought your used Mini. By smashing it, you've guaranteed that Apple has made their profit and that it will never appear on the used market. Nice going!

      Also, you're full of shit.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    11. Re:Either Way by Zencyde · · Score: 1

      But Letterman has TERRIBLE writers and that joke was actually funny. I mean, have you ever actually WATCHED Letterman? Old people must think non-funny things are funny. It's the only explanation.

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    12. Re:Either Way by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Happy Chaka Khan to you too!

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    13. Re:Either Way by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Much better to do what I do:

      Hackintosh!

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Either Way by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      It's amusing that you think Apple's open source contributions are "quite negligible". Compared to yours perhaps?

      This is the fanboi variation of "If you're so smart, how come you're not rich?"

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:Either Way by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, just that an anonymous assertion about something that can be observed by looking it up is absurd.

    16. Re:Either Way by erroneus · · Score: 1

      Actually, I can't side with either after learning more about what Pystar is really all about.

      RebelEFI is just a ripoff work of what the OSx86 project has been doing. They did their best to hide it through encryption and the like, but in the end, it was shown that RebelEFI is a derivative of a GPLed project and they are in violation of the GPL. It's time they released the source code.

      I admire their boldness -- reselling MacOSX preconfigured on non-Apple software. But the GPL thing just sours me on them.

  2. Just for fun by JohnFluxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just for fun..

    Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

    1. Re:Just for fun by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 1

      ... but it seems that they *could* if they wanted to.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    2. Re:Just for fun by falcon5768 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well the issue here is Micrsoft is a SOFTWARE company, not HARDWARE. Apple on the otherhand is the later. Microsoft would have a hard time proving in court that it was seriously effecting their bottom line unless only THEY made those Intel machines. Apple on the otherhand could easily show that it was since only THEY make machines that run OS X.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    3. Re:Just for fun by rackeer · · Score: 1

      Is Windows sold or licensed?

      From November's ruling:

      [MacOS...] are covered by software license
      2 agreements that provided that the software is “licensed, not sold to [the user] by Apple Inc.
      3 (“Apple”) for use only under the terms of this License” (Chung Exh. 26 at 1). Apple’s license
      4 agreements restricted the use of Mac OS X to Apple computers, and specifically prohibited
      5 customers from installing the operating system on non-Apple computers.

    4. Re:Just for fun by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yes, They could go even further and say Windows could _only_ be run on One computer only. It is their product they can do what they want with it good or not for the company. What Microsoft probably couldn't do is say with the existing versions that are already sold change the agreement and AMD can no longer use this, after they released the software and said yes they did back then.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Just for fun by 644bd346996 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They wouldn't be able to do that in a timely fashion without inviting several breach of contract lawsuits from OEMs that sell AMD PCs.

      And given the sizes of Intel and Microsoft, they'd get savagely beat down by antitrust regulators before AMD's lawyers could even mail their threats. (I'm not saying that the Obama administration would be quick or harsh, but Neelie Kroes would be.)

    6. Re:Just for fun by pizzach · · Score: 1

      Previously, only the $399 Ultimate edition of Vista could legally be run in a virtual machine. I don't think that is all that different.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    7. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

      There are different facets of the issue which are being largely missed or glossed over every time some brings up one of these hypotheticals: Copyright law, fair use, and first sale doctrine.

      First sale doctrine allows you to resell something you bought. Fair use allows to modify or extend something you bought beyond what the original copyright holder intended or wants in certain ways. Neither fair use nor first sale allows you to both modify and resell copyrighted material. The key word being 'and'. Copyright law expressly states that permission of the copyright holder is required before modification and redistribution is allowed.

      For those that would bemoan how evil Apple is for protecting their copyrighted proprietary software, realize that Open Source software is based on copyright law. For example both BSD and GPL licenses extend this modification and redistribution clause by allowing it with conditions. In the case of MS (and SCO), they cannot ignore this clause if they wish to respect copyright law.

      The ramifications of an Apple loss would have been disastrous to copyright in general as well as Open Source. It would mean that anyone could take someone else's work, modify it and sell it as their own without regard to copyrights. If I've hated how The DaVinci Code ended, I could republish it with Ewoks and JarJar Blinks. It would mean nothing would stop MS from taking Ubuntu, embracing and extending it with proprietary locks that worked only with Windows, and releasing as MS Ubuntu.

      But to answer your question, nothing prevents MS from making Windows exclusive to Intel. MS is within their legal rights to do so. Many other companies make exclusive software. Can you run AIX on non-IBM machines? What about HP-UX on non HP machines? MS does not because it doesn't make sense to their business model. Since MS does not sell computer hardware, it would mean loss of sales of software if it did.

      That being said, nothing prevents you from buying a copy of AIX and installing it on a non-IBM machine. You could blog about it, rant about it on twitter. IBM has no rights to stop you. The minute you create a business to modify and resell IBM's copyrighted work, IBM would send the Nazgul against you.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    8. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I wouldn't be so sure about the "good or not for the company" part, there is a legal duty of care owed to the shareholders which would seem to indicate this is not the case...

    9. Re:Just for fun by m.ducharme · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Meesa wansa cryptex!"

      "Jub-jub."

      Man, now that image is going to be stuck in my head aaaaaaalllllll day.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    10. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is as much of a hardware company as you are a nobel prize winner, there isn't a sole in the world who buys apple because of their great hardware, they buy it because of the software, and the pretty packages.

    11. Re:Just for fun by timster · · Score: 1

      May be obvious, but by far the majority of Windows licenses are sold exactly that way -- bound to a single piece of hardware. You can't move the standard OEM license you got with your PC to some other PC.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    12. Re:Just for fun by rxan · · Score: 1

      But did they actually modify OS X or did they just provide a software adapter so that it could be installed on the machine? Like how Windows runs on Macs through Boot Camp.

      Seems to me that this would be allowed unless Apple tied the copyright of the hardware and software together.

    13. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      Their process involving installing OS X on a Mac Mini, then installing it onto a generic PC while replacing some system software and the bootloader. Then using the generic PC to image onto other PC machines. OS X does not run on generic PCs without replacing the bootloader at least. Many hackintosh forums describe the process.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    14. Re:Just for fun by StripedCow · · Score: 0

      Neither fair use nor first sale allows you to both modify and resell copyrighted material.

      I think that what Psystar was selling was a means (read: tool) to modify the OSX software. That is, modification is left as a final step to be performed by the end-user. Of course they sell that tool bundled with the OSX software.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    15. Re:Just for fun by eelke_klein · · Score: 1

      Propably not

      However if they made some software for some Microsoft branded computer they would be allowed to limit the use of that software to that computer.

    16. Re:Just for fun by jittles · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They may claim its a license but do you sign a licensing agreement at the time of the transaction? No. Do you ever sign a licensing agreement? No. If you bought the software, opened it, and refused the license would they allow you to return it? No.

      Call it a license all day long for all I care but that sure looks like a sale to me.

    17. Re:Just for fun by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Funny you say that. I've been curious if someone has been behind the company, financially supporting maybe their legal time to test the waters of the issue.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    18. Re:Just for fun by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      What if microsoft added a clause that XBox OS could only be run on an XBox?

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    19. Re:Just for fun by gnasher719 · · Score: 1, Informative

      They may claim its a license but do you sign a licensing agreement at the time of the transaction? No. Do you ever sign a licensing agreement? No. If you bought the software, opened it, and refused the license would they allow you to return it? No.

      This is what happens from a legal point of view: Apple proposes to sell a box with a DVD, plus the right to install the DVD on a single Apple computer, and asks you in return for some money plus the acceptance of the software license. You either agree to this contract or you don't. If you don't, then contrary to what you claim, Apple _will_ refund your money. And contrary to what you say, signing a license agreement is not necessary; you agree to it by installing and using the software.

      Of course you could have just hopped over to groklaw.net and read the court decision, where Judge Alsup states very clearly that the license is part of the contract between Apple and their customers.

    20. Re:Just for fun by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Informative

      The way this issue has been reported on in the past here, they most certainly did not do that - they supplied the modified OS X pre-installed on the machine.

    21. Re:Just for fun by henrik.falk · · Score: 2

      Can you run AIX on non-IBM machines?

      Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Network_Server

    22. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just for fun..

      Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

      It would be still be legal to sell AMD machines with windows on (the hardware), since MS doesn't own the machine itself, you bought it and you can do what you like with it. But it would be illegal to sell (or give away) the copy of windows that was running on that machine, since you must follow the terms of the software license.

      Psystar were basically arguing the former, and Apple were arguing the latter. Apple won.

    23. Re:Just for fun by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, you are wrong.

      They are trying to weasel around the injuction by doing what you describe NOW, but originally they were selling PC's with OSX pre-installed. That means that Pystar was doing the illegal modification and re-distribution. The RebelEFI product they came out with recently is an attempt to shift the burden of legal responsibility to their customers.

      The legal status of RebelEFI was not decided explicitly by the courts injunction, but the Judge indicated that he doubted it would be exempt from the degree, and that Pystar proceeded with its sale at its own peril. That is because selling tools to circumvent DRM is as illegal as doing the circumvention yourself. That the RebelEFI is reported by some to be ripped off work from the Hackintosh community just makes Pystar that much more reprehensible IMO. Many can get behind the idea of "Screw the Man", but they appear to be trying to "Screw the Masses" as well.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    24. Re:Just for fun by dissy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

      They already do, just not exactly as you stated.

      It is already illegal to take an OEM Windows license from one PC and install it on any other PC.
      In that sense the license is definitely tied to ONE computer.

      It is a sad state of things and probably shouldn't be this way, but it has been law for long before Apple (or even Microsoft) started doing this.

    25. Re:Just for fun by John+Betonschaar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      here isn't a sole in the world who buys apple because of their great hardware

      Well I did, I bought my last 4 PC's specifically for the hardware _and_ the software.

      Clue: there's more aspects to hardware than tech specs or CPU architecture. Think esthetics, ergonomics, durability, amount of write-off on your investment over time, etc. Many of Apple's computer products have no comparable alternative from another manufacturere, there's no Mac-Mini alternative that compares to it in terms of size and features, no iMac alternative with the same specifications and ethetics, no MacBook alternative with the same build quality and multitouch features, and so on. If you don't value these things, buy something else, but don't pretend as if there's a cheaper alternative from other vendors that compares on these aspects.

    26. Re:Just for fun by mjpaci · · Score: 1

      Wow. Blast from the past. Nice catch.

    27. Re:Just for fun by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Erm no, that's not true. The look of their machines means just as much too. Otherwise why spend money on the hardware design and just stick it in a generic PC case.

      Macs generally run smoother too and that is down to Apple controlling the hardware and what goes in the machine. A Mac is not a mac just because of the OS.

    28. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Didn't know about that one. My point was IBM dictates the exclusivity of AIX on hardware. In this case, I would think Apple got permission from IBM before they sold this server.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    29. Re:Just for fun by ramzafl · · Score: 0

      Not true. I have done it many times before.

    30. Re:Just for fun by 2obvious4u · · Score: 1

      The ramifications of an Apple loss would have been disastrous to copyright in general as well as Open Source. It would mean that anyone could take someone else's work, modify it and sell it as their own without regard to copyrights. If I've hated how The DaVinci Code ended, I could republish it with Ewoks and JarJar Blinks. It would mean nothing would stop MS from taking Ubuntu, embracing and extending it with proprietary locks that worked only with Windows, and releasing as MS Ubuntu.

      What is wrong with republishing a work with a better ending?

    31. Re:Just for fun by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Actually, there isn't a sole in the world that buys Apple, period. On the other hand, there are many souls that buy Apple because of the hardware. Not many PC's have the nice backlit keyboards and such. There's no PC that's directly comparable to the Macbook Air. And so on.

    32. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Windows did not run on AMD machines without requiring a patch, then yes, resellers wouldn't have a legal way to sell preloaded Windows on AMD machines. If Windows did run without a patch, then no, it wouldn't be illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows.

      If you can't get the job done without creating and distributing a derived work, then you're going to trigger copyright law and then need a friendly license that allows you to get your job done. If the license doesn't allow it and copyright law doesn't allow it, you're screwed.

    33. Re:Just for fun by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      So they installed OS X, then installed some updates to it. Is that really modifying OS X? Suppose Dell installs Windows on a computer, then installs a patch that overwrites a file that Microsoft distributed, then resells the computer. Did they sell a modified version of Windows? Is it a derivative work?

      If not, how is what Psystar did any different?

    34. Re:Just for fun by jittles · · Score: 2, Informative

      No they will not. I dare you to buy a copy of Mac OS X from Fry's, Best Buy, or even an Apple Store and then break the seal and try to return it. They will not allow you to return open software ever. They only permit an exchange if the media is defective. That return policy is pushed on the retailers by the vendors to prevent piracy.

      Since you seem to have read the Groklaw article you'll note that the judge's order had nothing to do with licensing and everything to do with copyright and the DMCA. Allow me to quote Groklaw for you:

      [The] injunction includes forbidding Psystar from intentionally inducing, aiding, assisting, abetting, or encouraging any other person or entity to infringe plaintiff's copyrighted Mac OS X software. (Groklaw empahsis mine)

    35. Re:Just for fun by Demonantis · · Score: 1

      Contracts of adhesion cover this.

    36. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not many PC's have the nice backlit keyboards and such.

      Mod parent retarded. There are a million backlit keyboards available. I have one myself.

    37. Re:Just for fun by The+Snowman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So they installed OS X, then installed some updates to it. Is that really modifying OS X? Suppose Dell installs Windows on a computer, then installs a patch that overwrites a file that Microsoft distributed, then resells the computer. Did they sell a modified version of Windows? Is it a derivative work?

      If not, how is what Psystar did any different?

      Difference is, Apple is in the business of tying their products together even more closely than Microsoft could ever dream of. They have draconian licensing in place to ensure that you only use specific software on specific hardware and do not modify it. Remember, Apple is both a hardware and a software company. While Microsoft does sell hardware (e.g. mouses) they do not sell whole computers. Compared to Apple, they are actually much more permissive about what you can and cannot modify per the license agreement.

      Microsoft has agreements with companies such as Dell that do sell hardware that allow them to modify the operating system and installed software to some extent. This is how you get the mouthful "Microsoft Internet Explorer provided by Dell" in your title bar.

      Apple would never allow that -- I imagine allowing any other company to modify the MacOS operating system or their hardware would give Steve Jobs a heart attack.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    38. Re:Just for fun by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      Of course, the definition of a "PC" is hardly fixed. What happens if you replace components? The CPU? The mommyboard? Replace the case? Is it still the same PC?

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    39. Re:Just for fun by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      You can't move the standard OEM license you got with your PC to some other PC.

      It would be a violation of the OEM license terms, it is quite possible that the provision is not legally binding to a end user, since the End user is not really presented with those terms... System builders/purchasers are, and would be bound. IE that is the issue decided here, is that the License applies to a "re-distributor", it may (or may not) apply legally to a end user. IE it may (or may not) still be a valid licensed legal version of MAC OS-X if a end user purchases OS-X and installs and uses it for their personal use on hardware, even if that hardware is other than that intended by Apple. I am sure many restrictions apply on how you could advertise/sell this "clone" running OS-X, but I doubt it would be considered a "pirated" version. IE you could probably sell the license and hardware in the same transaction but listed as separate items, but you probably couldn't advertise in anyway that you were selling a mac/apple clone running OS-X even if you used the term clone. But I doubt you would have to remove/delete the contents of the hard drive, as long as the OS-X license was transferred to the same person as the computer.

    40. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah I guess that the same ethetics is hard to do ,,,

    41. Re:Just for fun by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

      ...with Ewoks and JarJar Blinks

      You sir are truly evil!

    42. Re:Just for fun by selven · · Score: 1

      Even if Apple is willing to refund you, you still have to go to the effort of returning the product if you don't like the license. It's like mailing someone something and then saying "if you don't mail this back within 30 days, you must pay $500". It's illegal and this should be illegal for the same reasons.

    43. Re:Just for fun by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      JUST Ewoks would be awesome imo.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    44. Re:Just for fun by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is Windows sold or licensed?

      Microsoft says it is licensed, and when the Indian Inland Revenue heard that Microsoft had found a tax loophole that meant they didn't have to pay tax anywhere for the copies of Windows they sold in India, they reminded Microsoft that Windows is actually licensed, not sold, and therefore tax had to be paid in India.

    45. Re:Just for fun by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Since you seem to have read the Groklaw article you'll note that the judge's order had nothing to do with licensing and everything to do with copyright and the DMCA. Allow me to quote Groklaw for you:

      Allow me to quote Judge Alsup's decision: "In sum, customers were contractually precluded from: (1) installing and running Mac OS X on any non-Apple computer system, (2) enabling others to install or run Mac OS X on any non-Apple computer system, (3) modifying or creating derivative works of the software, and (4) transferring the software to others except as expressly authorized by the license agreement."

      And please explain to me why _I_ should buy a copy of MacOS X that I don't need, open it, reject the license, go back to the store when it is _you_ who makes the wrong assertion that you wouldn't get a refund?

    46. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 2, Informative

      *sigh*

      This ruling is about Psystar making unauthorised derivative copies of OS X on their servers, imaging them onto machines which they sold to consumers, then chucking a retail copy of OS X in the box with the machine and presuming that would be OK. That's all. Yes, Apple doesn't want you to run OS X on machines they haven't supplied, but this lawsuit was about illegally making derivative works.

      The hypothetical situation you described isn't parallel to this. What would be parallel would be for Dell to sell a Linux box, put some Windows DLLs on there to be used with Wine, create a custom Linux distro with those DLLs on their servers, image that onto PCs they sell, then chuck a retail copy of Windows in the box with the PC. Would that be illegal - YES. Would Microsoft take them to court and win - YES.

    47. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      But when Psystar bought those copies of OSX to resell to their customers, they weren't making a retail purchase, they were making a wholesale business purchase and entering into a binding contract with their supplier and ultimately Apple. When Psystar modified OSX and imaged it onto the PCs to sell on to customers, they broke that contract and therefore had no right to sell the version of OSX installed on the hard drive of those PCs.

    48. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 2, Informative

      In your hypothetical scenario, Dell has a contract with Microsoft which allows them to resell Windows OEM. Presumably that contract details what Dell can and can't do with that installation prior to reselling it, such as installing updates and drivers (which, incidentally is what the whole antitrust thing is about MS was using that contract to prevent manufacturers from installing Netscape back in the day, which was deemed to be an abuse of monopoly powers, but would have been legal in a non-monopoly situation).

      Anyway... Psystar had no such contract with Apple, they were altering the OS in order for it to run on their hardware and reselling that altered OS (which is a breach of copyright) then putting a retail copy of OSX in with the shipped machine.

      Suppose I bought a million copies of the latest number 1 single, sampled it and produced a derivative work, then resold my derivative work along with a copy of the original single. Would that be legal? Absolutely not. This is no different.

    49. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      So they installed OS X, then installed some updates to it. Is that really modifying OS X? Suppose Dell installs Windows on a computer, then installs a patch that overwrites a file that Microsoft distributed, then resells the computer. Did they sell a modified version of Windows? Is it a derivative work?

      They didn't install "updates" per se. They replaced system libraries with their own, namely the bootloader. Then they resold it. In the case of Dell, it would be a derivative work and a copyright infringement if Dell did not have an agreement with MS that they could do this. Dell (as well as other OEMs) have agreements with MS that allows them to replace certain software like logos, etc.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    50. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, Apple were arguing that it's illegal to modify someone else's software and resell the modified version, which it quite clearly is. This is nothing to do with the license and everything to do with copyright.

    51. Re:Just for fun by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Not true. I have done it many times before.

      They are cracking down on it more and more. Next time you try you might be surprised when they tell you to fuck off..

    52. Re:Just for fun by ramzafl · · Score: 1, Funny

      That would be an interesting error message.

    53. Re:Just for fun by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

      You sir are truly evil! Granted, a little less evil than the parent, but still evil!!!

    54. Re:Just for fun by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      The ramifications of an Apple loss would have been disastrous to copyright in general as well as Open Source. It would mean that anyone could take someone else's work, modify it and sell it as their own without regard to copyrights.

      that may not be entirely correct with that argument, Pystar was paying Apple for a license for every copy of their product that they made, and giving Apple full credit, selling it as "Apple OS-X". Open source already had a similar ruling, IE your allowed to copy, and modify the firefox software all you want but you must not call it firefox (or use their logos) you have to have your own name like say iceweasel and simply give credit, and share changes. I suspect the thing that upset Apple the most (legitimately) with Pystar was more likely associating Apples name, logos, and reputation for OS-X in a attempt to make money on hardware. Pystar should be allowed to (and likely is allowed to) build compatible hardware, modify apples software to run on that hardware, and to sell licensed apple products (OS-X.) Correct, they shouldn't be allowed to sell the modified software as Apple software (or as their own), and probably shouldn't be allowed to use Apples name, logos, etc in association with pyStar hardware. I do disagree with the judge on that last point, A boot loader is not DRM, and thus "Psystar's Rebel EFI" software, that appears to modify apples software to allow a different boot-loader, shouldn't be illegal on those grounds (now if py-star didn't write or license that software, and it is from someone else, they should make that claim not apple.)

    55. Re:Just for fun by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I installed a copy on my Quadra 650 back in 99. Good thing I didn't try to sell it.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    56. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      that may not be entirely correct with that argument, Pystar was paying Apple for a license for every copy of their product that they made, and giving Apple full credit, selling it as "Apple OS-X".

      It doesn't matter if Psystar paid for every copy. Copyright law is clear on this US Title Code 117b:

      (b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation.-- Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.

      Open source already had a similar ruling, IE your allowed to copy, and modify the firefox software all you want but you must not call it firefox (or use their logos) you have to have your own name like say iceweasel and simply give credit, and share changes.

      Open source licenses extend copyright law by permitting "adaptations" under certain conditions. In the case of GPL, any "adaptations" require release of the source code. For BSD, original copyright notices must be kept in the code, etc. Open source is based on copyright law. If the court found against Apple, it would mean anyone could make "adaptations" without permission. It would also mean that open source licenses could not impose their conditions. MS could create MS Ubuntu without releasing any source code. I could create my own version of Windows, etc.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    57. Re:Just for fun by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      The key words were "not many". There are very few backlit keyboards on PCs in general. Go ahead... find me more than, say, 5% of PC laptops that have backlit keyboards. I'll wait.

    58. Re:Just for fun by butlerm · · Score: 1

      The ramifications of an Apple loss would have been disastrous to copyright in general as well as Open Source

      Perhaps if Apple lost due to an extraordinary neglect of 17 USC 106, or an extraordinary expansion of fair use and that treatment was upheld on appeal.

    59. Re:Just for fun by Emb3rz · · Score: 1

      Actually, users installing Windows (or leaving Windows installed) on a computer of their choosing is effecting Microsoft's bottom line.

      Obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/326/

    60. Re:Just for fun by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, every Dell laptop now comes with a backlit keyboard. That would certainly be more than 5% of laptops sold today.

      I do know for sure that everything in their "Studio" laptop line certainly does have a backlit keyboard with multiple brightness levels.

    61. Re:Just for fun by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      Open source is based on copyright law. If the court found against Apple, it would mean anyone could make "adaptations" without permission. It would also mean that open source licenses could not impose their conditions.

      Their was nothing about that in this case. It was never claimed by PyStar that copyright was invalid, Pystar sold a unmodified version of OS-X along with a modified version of OS-X, that was what this case was about. If they sell a unmodified version, can they also include a modified version? (the answer was no) Your just scare monogramming about Oh-my god if the interpret some small part of copyright doesn't always apply in all cases, then all copyright law is immediately invalid. That's crap we both know that, the rest of your post is insightful, that statement is just spreading FUD.

      MS could create MS Ubuntu without releasing any source code. I could create my own version of Windows, etc.

      MS can create a MS Ubuntu without releasing any source code, and you can create your own version of windows (if it is based off of windows you have to have a license for windows to do this.) Those are both completely valid fair use exemptions. Granted these versions can't be distributed without triggering issues, but MS can certainly maintain a modified internal version of MS Ubuntu, as long as those internal to MS can get a copy of those changes. And actually if MS didn't modify any of the Ubuntu source code to produce the "MS Ubuntu" binary, they could sell the modified MS Ubuntu under the GPL, but they couldn't use the Ubuntu name, without releasing any source code. IE they could use a different compiler...

    62. Re:Just for fun by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      They weren't licensed to resell OS X anyway. Apple doesn't license OS X for resale.

    63. Re:Just for fun by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Not obvious if everyone keeps overlooking it, and a good point to bring up. All of the major hardware vendors off Windows bundled to the hardware, and I'm sure most will tell you it's non-transferable. Even Microsoft Windows itself will throw up if you put it on a different piece of hardware due to it's 'Genuine Disadvantage' program.

      If you buy a boxed copy of Windows, you pay a premium above and beyond what a manufacturer will pay, and you can transfer it to any PC you want, as long as it's only on one PC at a time. Software bundled on an OEM PC is not the same, as it will typically state the license is non-transferable. People typically ignore it as they haven't started tying keys to some sort of serial number, but I'm sure they'll probably try this at some point.

    64. Re:Just for fun by Solandri · · Score: 1

      First sale doctrine allows you to resell something you bought. Fair use allows to modify or extend something you bought beyond what the original copyright holder intended or wants in certain ways. Neither fair use nor first sale allows you to both modify and resell copyrighted material. The key word being 'and'. Copyright law expressly states that permission of the copyright holder is required before modification and redistribution is allowed.

      I have my doubts about that. If it were true, your 5-year old could use page 153 of your Harry Potter book for toilet paper when you aren't looking, and it would be a violation of Copyright law to sell the book at a garage sale.

      I think a better distinction is that Copyright law prohibits copying works for resale. i.e. You buy one copy, make duplicates, and sell the duplicates. At least that's what it was supposed to do. The current bastardization of Copyright law which we have now does all sorts of things which have nothing to do with promoting the arts and sciences.

    65. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even system libraries. Just the bootloader. If I installed Windows on a PC, and then installed the GRUB bootloader to boot WIndows, would I be violating anything?

    66. Re:Just for fun by wtbname · · Score: 1
    67. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The ramifications of an Apple loss would have been disastrous to copyright in general as well as Open Source. It would mean that anyone could take someone else's work, modify it and sell it as their own without regard to copyrights."

      No, I don't see how it would have been disastrous - at least not in general. For commercial works, they would still have to buy one copy for each copy they ship. Sounds fair to me. Doesn't seem like it would have any impact on BSD-type F/OSS licenses (the BSD restrictions are so loose (just attribution) that you might be able to protect them with some form of trademark law). The GPL would be a little confusing - download/patch/redistribute would violate the spirit of the GPL. The limitation that makes it meaningful for closed source (that you have to pay for the copies) is meaningless if the copies are free.

      My question would be - what interest of society is preserved by NOT allowing this sort of modify-and-resell behavior? Personally, I see the sort of behavior that Psystar was trying to do as beneficial to society, with little to no negative impact on Apple. (The only sensible claims I have heard - that Apple would suffer due to bugs on unapproved hardware - seem irrelevant; noone is going to blame Apple for the sort of off-label use that Psystar is trying.) It sounds similar to some of the movie annotation cases - a company wanted to distribute an "edited" version of Hollywood movies, with swearing/violence/etc. removed for consumers who wanted a "clean" product. Do you think that someone is going to see your version of Da Vinci Code and mistake it for Dan Brown's original? Your proposed MS Ubuntu also doesn't quite make sense. Suppose they did - still, nothing prevents distribution of the original version of Ubuntu. Microsoft could fork a version right now (as long as it is GPL) and lock it in to Windows.

    68. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Their was nothing about that in this case. It was never claimed by PyStar that copyright was invalid, Pystar sold a unmodified version of OS-X along with a modified version of OS-X, that was what this case was about. If they sell a unmodified version, can they also include a modified version? (the answer was no) Your just scare monogramming about Oh-my god if the interpret some small part of copyright doesn't always apply in all cases, then all copyright law is immediately invalid. That's crap we both know that, the rest of your post is insightful, that statement is just spreading FUD.

      Psystar admitted modifying OS X and redistributing it. It does not matter if they included an unmodified version of OS X with it as distributing an unmodified copy is permitted by copyright law. They did not have permission to modify and redistribute as defined in 117b. As for "some small part" of the copyright law, US Title Code 117 is the basis of copyright limitations for computer programs in US law. It would be the same as you saying "The Bill of Rights" is a small part of legal rights in US law. The implication if Apple cannot enforce 117b is that no one can enforce it. Since open source licenses like GPL are based upon copyright law, they cannot enforce their extensions to it.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    69. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      The argument of Apple was that Psystar violated 117b. Psystar admitted but failed to put up an adequate defense like fair use. Remember Psystar lost summary judgment which means their case was so weak on this point that the judge did not need to go to trial. If Apple lost the case when Psystar admitted their violations, it would mean that 117b has no meaning. Since open source extends copyright law, they could not enforce their conditions.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    70. Re:Just for fun by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      This case was meaningless either way to the GPL, their was never a challenge in this case to the entirety of copyright law. Had the Judge declared this a act of fair use, then copyright law would still exist; the GPL would still stand. Pystar would continue re-selling copyrighted works. The copyright world would not have fallen to it's knees like you claim. Simply Apple would still have a direct competitor.

    71. Re:Just for fun by butlerm · · Score: 1

      I am just saying that there are a number of ways Apple might have lost the case which wouldn't be a disaster for open source. The latter would require an exception large enough to drive a steam roller through, and it doesn't look like Psystar was doing any such thing, trivial modifications and all, aside from possibly not purchasing the required licenses in a handful of cases.

    72. Re:Just for fun by tirnacopu · · Score: 1

      Microsoft already does this. You cannot (are not allowed to) install the Xbox or Zune OS on any other platform.

    73. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I think all the shops that have it on their shelves would disagree with you on that one.

    74. Re:Just for fun by hmar · · Score: 1

      It's like mailing someone something and then saying "if you don't mail this back within 30 days, you must pay $500". It's illegal and this should be illegal for the same reasons.

      Um.. No, it's nothing like that. Apple doesn't send you unsolicited bill's, you need to go out of your way to obtain a copy of OS X. They don't mail it to you unsolicited and demand payment. You pay first, with an assumption that you already have a fair idea what that license is going to say.

    75. Re:Just for fun by hmar · · Score: 1

      If you change enough hardware, Windows has been known to see a whole new computer and lock you out. This requires a call to MS customer service, who are usually willing to give you a new code.

    76. Re:Just for fun by selven · · Score: 1

      So Apple just gets to assume that I know what the license is going to say? I strongly disagree with that. Such thinking assumes that all software licenses are the same, but they aren't - some are unrestrictive, some let the company electronically search your hard drive at any time. If you assume that customers know what's inside the license text, they're all going to assume the worst and other, less restrictive forms of software will suffer.

    77. Re:Just for fun by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      The Dell Vostro 1520 in front of me right now doesn't have that. It's a recent model, made for business.

    78. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Hypothetically yes a lot could have happened. But if Apple can't win the summary judgment when Psystar admits it violated with no real defense, then no one can win.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    79. Re:Just for fun by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Microsoft would have a hard time proving in court that it was seriously effecting their bottom line

      You don't have to prove damages to get an injunction, only to get compensation. The whole point of an injunction is the idea that money cannot fix everything.

      The issue here is not whether or not Apple makes hardware, it is whether Apple holds a copyright on the material, whether the license for said material was valid, and whether Psystar was in violation of that license. The court answered yes on all counts. I don't like Apple's policy, but it's their policy to make.

    80. Re:Just for fun by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Apple accused Psystar of violating their copyrights. Psystar admitted they violated. Remember Apple won on summary judgment which means Psystars defenses (including fair use) were so weak the judge did not feel the need for a trial. Of course the decision could be appealed higher and higher but if no higher court determined that Apple can't win when the defendant admits violations with no defense, then how could it ever hope to enforce their copyrights? No one could enforce their copyrights including open source software or proprietary software.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    81. Re:Just for fun by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's from Ibeetha, Spain.

    82. Re:Just for fun by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      The Dell Latitude on my desk does. The Precision Mobile Workstation at home does, and the XPS my friend has does... Oh yeah, that's right, the Vostro is the tightass model, maybe that's why yours doesn't... ;)

      --
      ... wait, what?
    83. Re:Just for fun by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      So Apple just gets to assume that I know what the license is going to say? I strongly disagree with that. Such thinking assumes that all software licenses are the same, but they aren't - some are unrestrictive, some let the company electronically search your hard drive at any time. If you assume that customers know what's inside the license text, they're all going to assume the worst and other, less restrictive forms of software will suffer.

      But the one for OS X is available at the Apple web site - 3 clicks from the main page.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    84. Re:Just for fun by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Right, so if Windows contained a small bit of code to check that it was an intel machine, then it would be illegal for any company to remove that check and then sell the machine?

    85. Re:Just for fun by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      If I installed Windows on a PC, and then installed the GRUB bootloader to boot WIndows, would I be violating anything?

      If I installed Windows on a PC, and then installed a bootloader based on a modified GRUB bootloader to boot WIndows, without releasing source code for the modifications, would I be violating anything? Which coincidentally brings us to another thing Psystar did.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    86. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the Microsoft OEM license disallows third-party boot-loaders, which is why nobody sells dual-boot PCs.

      However, if you did this as a one-off for a client, then you would be acting as an agent rather than OEM.

    87. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are thinking of Apple AU/X which ran on 68K Macintoshes.

      IBM AIX is for special Power/PowerPC hardware. (ANS was not a Macintosh.)

    88. Re:Just for fun by spidr_mnky · · Score: 1

      So I can buy the eggs, milk, and flour, but I can't sell the cake?

    89. Re:Just for fun by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      There are many backlit PC keyboards available - they can be easily found on any site that sells PC accessories. There are also a million and one little Macbook Air-like notebooks/netbooks (some with multitouch), the only difference is they don't come with OS X on them (and I guess they're not as fashionable).

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    90. Re:Just for fun by timster · · Score: 1

      Whether it's possible doesn't have much to do with whether it's allowed by the license agreement.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    91. Re:Just for fun by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Of all these replies, the ACs are the insightful ones. (I'm replying to everyone else since the AC's won't come back to see this.)

      To all those posting "but Dell has an agreement with Microsoft!" you are missing the point. Thousands of PC vendors do this all the time, and they never have required license agreements. I ran a small business doing this for years. People regularly resell a PC with modified bootloaders, system files, updates, and proprietary software installed. They don't have OEM agreements - they don't need them. These "modifications" do not create derivative works of Microsoft Windows. Installing a bootloader, or replacing system components does not violate a copyright.

      That is why I'm confused with Psystar. The judgement seems to be claiming that installing an OS, then adding a bootloader or replacing system components is a derivative work, and is subject to copyright violation. But this happens 10,000 times a day and up until now, nobody ever considered it to be creating a derivative work, which is a copyright violation. And it has nothing to do with OEM agreements or EULAs.

      This judgement is frightening. Are they saying that anyone who installs Linux on a Windows machine and resells it needs a special reseller agreement from Microsoft? That they are violating copyright? That's preposterous.

    92. Re:Just for fun by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Yes, because you would be modifying a copyright work then reselling it, which would be a breach of copyright. Just like if I modified a music track and resold it, that would be breach of copyright. Just because you, I or anyone else might feel justified in making that modification, it is still illegal. 'Fair use' to make the software run on your own computer might be a different thing, this is about a company profiting from the resale of someone else's modified copyright work.

    93. Re:Just for fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why I'm confused with Psystar. The judgement seems to be claiming that installing an OS, then adding a bootloader or replacing system components is a derivative work, and is subject to copyright violation. But this happens 10,000 times a day and up until now, nobody ever considered it to be creating a derivative work, which is a copyright violation.

      Apple are hypocrites. They put in their EULA that you are not allowed to "reverse engineer or decompile" their system software, but their own "Rosetta" emulator has to decompile 3rd-party software to translate it for the x86 version of Mac OS X, and that, my friends, is a derivative work! If Apple has the right to do that, then we also have the right to do it to Apple.

  3. WIN! by Khris · · Score: 1

    Who didn't see this happening (other than Psystar)?

  4. Re:Dungodung is a loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Like Nawlinkwiki and Chris G.

    Go to this Wikipedia and vandalize it. Tell them Willy on Wheels aka Grawp's Dad sent you.

    Trolls sure are getting demanding these days. How much experience do I get for this quest?

  5. x86 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Heh. What would've happened if they weren't able to create IBM PC Clones in the '80s? Today's computing world would've looked a lot different, I suppose.

    1. Re:x86 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a difference in creating a clone and copyright infringement. Compaq created the first IBM clones by reverse engineering IBM machines. That is, the machine functioned like an IBM machine but the machine was designed and made by Compaq. It used some of the same chips as IBM but it was a Compaq creation (different MB, case, power, etc). What Psystar did would be analogous if Compaq bought an IBM PC, changed a few chips, put it in a new case, and resold it as Compaq's IBM PC.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:x86 by itsdapead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Heh. What would've happened if they weren't able to create IBM PC Clones in the '80s? Today's computing world would've looked a lot different, I suppose.

      ...and probably a lot more healthy than the PC monoculture, with a diversity of different platforms and applications which (by necessity) exchanged data in standardized formats. The big snag of the IBM PC "standard" was that it wasn't really a standard - just a closed proprietary system that got cloned.

      Anyway, the PC clone makers did face legal challenges - but unlike Psystar they were able to prove that they'd produced a work-alike version of IBM's ROMs without infringing copyright (by using a scurpulous "clean-room" programming process). Also, Microsoft was more than happy to license them MSDOS (which always had been available as a standalone product - there were many non-PC MSDOS machines around at the time).

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    3. Re:x86 by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      And if something went wrong, most people would have called IBM for technical support.

    4. Re:x86 by idontgno · · Score: 1

      That's the problem with analogies; you can pick your analogs to prove anything.

      This situation would be almost precisely analogous to Compaq cloning an IBM PC, putting it into a new case, installing IBM PC-DOS instead of MS-DOS, and reselling it as Compaq's IBM PC clone.

      Which, other than the PC-DOS part, is precisely what they did. Installing PC-DOS would have changed NOTHING, except the branding on the software.

      However, even this analogy is flawed too, even if it's structurally closer to the Psystar thing. IBM had, as far as I could tell, no special copyright hold over PC-DOS; it was a tailored and rebranded version of MS-DOS, and still belonged to Microsoft.

      Which goes to show that the only analogies which have any hope of credibility are car and pizza analogies.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    5. Re:x86 by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      That's not what changed the market.
      Also, if Compaq -bought- IBM PC, what's wrong about doing what you said?
      AFAIK, the Psystar design was a pretty generic PC hacked to work with OS X (without copying anything of Apple design, but buying some stuff Apple bought from outside suppliers), and the only thing in the setup Apple owns is OS X, which they purchase rightfully.

      It's like you build PCs from 3rd party parts (high-level, no soldering involved), pick a set of parts and copyright it, despite not owning copyright on any single of the parts and not using any of it in any non-standard way.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    6. Re:x86 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they would not. They would have called the company they purchased the device from.

    7. Re:x86 by faffod · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree. If Paystar had reversed engineered OSX, ie completely written it from scratch without taking a single bit from Apple, then you would have the scenario that you present. Paystar took bits (actually most of them) straight from Apple. This isn't a reverse engineer situation, so your analogy is not "structurally closer"

    8. Re:x86 by name_already_taken · · Score: 1

      What Psystar did would be analogous if Compaq bought an IBM PC, changed a few chips, put it in a new case, and resold it as Compaq's IBM PC.

      Actually, that would be totally legal, because you're talking about a physical object being bought, modified and resold.

      Psystar modified and resold copyrighted works without obtaining a license to do so. That's the problem.

      --
      Putting moderation advice in your .sig lowers your karma!
    9. Re:x86 by JohnBailey · · Score: 1

      And if something went wrong, most people would have called IBM for technical support.

      Why? Would they have not called the manufacturer or the seller of the equipment instead? And as these were business machines, they would have had a support contract in place. Why call IBM?

      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    10. Re:x86 by hvm2hvm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, clearly you have no idea how idiots work

      --
      ics
    11. Re:x86 by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      How is installing a legally bought copy consitutes a copyright infringement?

      Imagine that IBM had specified that all x86 software could be run only on IBM-branded computers.

    12. Re:x86 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Also, if Compaq -bought- IBM PC, what's wrong about doing what you said?

      Depends if Compaq got permission from IBM. And Compaq did not. If they did not it is copyright and trademark infringement and possibly trade secret violations. Other than those intellectual property violations, nothing else. Think about that: Can you take someone else's work and include it with your own without their permission? Even in the case of open source, the permission is explicitly granted in the license provided you follow the conditions (like releasing source code in GPL).

      AFAIK, the Psystar design was a pretty generic PC hacked to work with OS X (without copying anything of Apple design, but buying some stuff Apple bought from outside suppliers), and the only thing in the setup Apple owns is OS X, which they purchase rightfully.

      So the copied nothing from Apple except pretty much all of OS X? Copyright law specifically says that only the copyright holder can grant permission to modify and redistribute. Psystar did not get Apple's permission and it does not matter that they bought a copy of OS X. They did not have rights to modify and redistribute their copy.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    13. Re:x86 by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      1. They changed libraries on their OS X disk imaged machines and thereby created a derivative work.

      2. MicroSoft (thanks to advice of IP lawyer dad Bill Senior) got a contract with IBM where MicroSoft retained distribution rights to DOS. D'oh!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    14. Re:x86 by Draek · · Score: 1

      Of the software, not hardware so the comparison *is* flawed. A closer one would've been if everything went as it did with Compaq assembling their own computers out of generic parts, but MS-DOS refused to run on the 'clone' for some reason, and so Compaq decided to modify it in the name of interoperability then resell the whole package anyways.

      Copyright infringement or allowed modification? either way, I'm glad Microsoft was greedy enough to pimp their OS to anybody and everybody, and we didn't have to find out the hard way.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    15. Re:x86 by Draek · · Score: 1

      ...and probably a lot more healthy than the PC monoculture, with a diversity of different platforms and applications which (by necessity) exchanged data in standardized formats. The big snag of the IBM PC "standard" was that it wasn't really a standard - just a closed proprietary system that got cloned.

      Not really. The unwashed masses are paranoid of choices, one or two they can tolerate but more than that and they'll ignore anything but the two most popular ones. Therefore, the PC world would've turned into a monoculture regardless, we're just lucky it was a relatively open one with an OS whose owner was ready to sell it to anyone and everyone, instead of trying to control the entirety of the user's experience ala Apple.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    16. Re:x86 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, it both contributed and hindered the development of a home computing monoculture. But more importantly, virtually everything we enjoy in computing today is a result of that cloning process. It broke the PC industry wide open and caused the cost of home computers to plummet. Beyond that, the internet only became popular because there were people with computers who could use it. I mean who cares about having 5 makes of home computer, or the proliferation of virii, if a PC is a niche item and there's no useful internet to contract viruses over in the first place?

    17. Re:x86 by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Not really. The unwashed masses are paranoid of choices, one or two they can tolerate but more than that and they'll ignore anything but the two most popular ones.

      Really? Every time I go to buy something other than a computer - from a can of cola to a car - there seems to be a huge choice of very different options. Perhaps you need to get out more.

      we're just lucky it was a relatively open one

      (...by some strange 1980s definition of "open" that actually means "closed and proprietary")

      with an OS whose owner was ready to sell it to anyone and everyone,

      ...provided they agreed not to sell any computers with different OSs...

      instead of trying to control the entirety of the user's experience ala Apple.

      Yeah, because keeping big chunks of the API secret so your applications always give a better user experience than third party ones is so "open". "Windows ain't done till Lotus won't run" anyone?

      PS: don't confuse Apple's tightly closed "appliances" - iPhone/iPod/iTunes - with the Macintosh. You can run whatever the hell you like on a Mac (including most of the major Open Source projects). Apple even throw in the dev tools, plus a point-and-drool tool for dual-booting with Windows. Dell once told me I'd void the warranty if I tried to dual boot even two versions of Windows...

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    18. Re:x86 by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      "Can you take someone else's work and include it with your own without their permission?"

      I can buy a newspaper and sell a paper-mache sculpture I made from it.
      I can buy a painting, frame it, hang it on the wall and sell the whole house with it.
      I can buy a RPG paperback handbook, bind it in a hand-made leather cover and sell to interested people for 10 times the original price.
      I can sell a used game cartridge even if I painted it green because I thought it would be prettier that way.
      I can buy 20 different albums of a band, pack them in a box and resell as complete discography.
      I can preload a Kindle with 500 books then sell it.
      I can buy a PC without OS, Windows 7 OEM, install it, attach the sticker, then sell the PC with Windows, license and all.

      They weren't pirating the system. They were reselling legally purchased copies, license and all.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    19. Re:x86 by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      But more importantly, virtually everything we enjoy in computing today is a result of that cloning process.

      What, like ready-to-use home computers (Commodore, Apple, Radio Shack, et. al.) with Graphical User Interfaces (Xerox and Apple), Word Processing (Wordstar, anyone?) WYSIWYG Word Processing (MacWrite), Desktop Publishing (Aldus on Apple Macs), Photo manipulation (Photoshop/Digital Darkroom started on Apple Macs) Spreadsheets (Visicalc on Apple II), Video Editing (Amiga, Apple), Music (Amiga, Atari, Apple), Games (Atari, Commodore, Sinclair/Timex kickstarted that), PDA/Smartphones (Psion, Palm, Apple Newton), low-power CPUs for smartphones (the ARM started out as the CPU in Acorn personal computers in the UK), Internet (most of the protocols came from Unix, friendly clients appeared pretty simultaneously on Mac and PC)...

      So remind me, what was it that the PC contributed...?

      It broke the PC industry wide open and caused the cost of home computers to plummet.

      Well, mainly it caused the price of PC Compatibles to plummet. There were plenty of affordable home computers on the market before that, often at a fraction of the price of IBM PCs and/or technically superior (Amiga?). Unfortunately, IBM had already used their dominant position to create a proprietary monoculture in the corporate world - the clones just allowed that to propagate into the home/small business market.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    20. Re:x86 by 644bd346996 · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Windows would never have had a larger audience than the Macintosh, which probably would have ended up as the dominant personal computing platform. The lack of a standard x86 platform would have relegated the IBM machines to being low-end business workstations, while all the consumer product lines moved over to 68k. Without the huge back catalog of non-portable DOS software, Windows would have ended up with the same fate as GEOS. Microsoft would have been just another Mac ISV, and the slower initial growth of the personal computing industry and Apple's relatively stronger position in the market would have meant that Jobs probably would have stayed in power at Apple instead of being fired. The technology Jobs oversaw the development of at NeXT would have mostly been created at Apple, and probably a bit earlier; it would have been in mainstream computers a full decade earlier.

    21. Re:x86 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I can buy a newspaper and sell a paper-mache sculpture I made from it.

      You are not modifying and reselling the newspaper's contents so that is irrelevant to the argument.

      I can buy a painting, frame it, hang it on the wall and sell the whole house with it.

      You are not creating a derivative work and not modifying the painting and irrelevant to the argument.

      I can buy a RPG paperback handbook, bind it in a hand-made leather cover and sell to interested people for 10 times the original price.

      Again you are not modifying the content so it is irrelevant.

      I can sell a used game cartridge even if I painted it green because I thought it would be prettier that way.

      Again there is no modification and redistribution as Psystar has done so that is irrelevant.

      I can buy 20 different albums of a band, pack them in a box and resell as complete discography.

      Again there is not modification so it is relevant.

      I can preload a Kindle with 500 books then sell it.

      Again there is not modification so it is relevant.

      I can buy a PC without OS, Windows 7 OEM, install it, attach the sticker, then sell the PC with Windows, license and all.

      Again there is not modification so it is relevant.

      They weren't pirating the system. They were reselling legally purchased copies, license and all.

      There were not just reselling. They modified OS X and resold it. From the ruling:

      Psystar infringed Apple's exclusive right to create derivative works of Mac OS X. It did this by replacing original files in Mac OS X with unauthorized software files. Specifically, it made three modifications: (1) replacing the Mac OS X bootloader with a different bootloader to enable an unauthorized copy of Mac OS X to run on Psystar's computers; (2) disabling and removing Apple kernel extension files; and (3) adding non-Apple kernel extensions. These modifications enabled Mac OS X to run on a non-Apple computer. It is undisputed that Psystar made these modifications (Def. Opp. 6-7).

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    22. Re:x86 by IntlHarvester · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you have that backwards.

      If someone wanted to "Compaq" Apple, they would need to:
      A) Crack Apple's secret hardware encryption keys and design their own mobo to contain a SMC containing them (Intel would be no help here)
      B) Write an OS X-compatible EFI bootloader.
      C) (possibly something with the video card bios)

      Of course, nothing says that Apple has to sell retail boxes of Mac OS X to anyone and everyone! They could kill any potentially legal clone market just by requiring some proof of Mac ownership.

      (When Compaq reverse engineered IBM, MS-DOS was not a retail box product - the only way to get it was to deal directly with Microsoft, who was willing to provide.)

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    23. Re:x86 by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      If I crop an inch from the painting to fit the frame?
      If I arrange the newspaper on surface of the paper mache to display certain lines of the article contained prominently, while hiding some under creases?
      If I replace all the content of the original cover of the RPG book with my writing on the leather?
      If I install "Lite" patches to Windows before selling the computer, so that its memory footprint is reduced, Internet Explorer and Media Player removed?

      All these modifications to OS X achieved was squeezing the original into the hardware. Filing the corners, so to say.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  6. It is Apple's system to do this with by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    Apple is within their rights to do this. If consumers thought it was a problem then it would impact Mac sales for Apple. Based on those sales, it does not appear consumers care. So it goes.

    1. Re:It is Apple's system to do this with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The vast majority of consumers do not buy Apple machines so perhaps it does have an impact.

    2. Re:It is Apple's system to do this with by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      That vast majority are not Apple's target market. They are quite happy with their vertically integrated system as it it right now - it is extremely profitable for Apple.

      This will only be a "bad decision" if their current profitability goes down as a direct result (minus any profits from selling retail copies of OS X to Pystar in the first place)

  7. right, that does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every item I now produce and sell will be accompanied by an envelope only obvious once the buyer has brought it home. When the envelope is opened, it provides a series of restrictions on the person's use and re-sale of the product, not made known to them at the point of purchase.

    Because I have copyright to the designs in the product, I am (apparently) allowed to define how the product is used and sold, not just how it is copied.

    EULA ahoy!

    1. Re:right, that does it by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

      Every time this story is posted, we hear this crap over and over. You're like a creationist. Even though you know what you are saying is untrue, you post it over and over and over. This isn't over TOS, this is about modifying and redistributing copyright.

    2. Re:right, that does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Every time this story is posted, we hear Apple fanboys say "this isn't an EULA issue" over and over. You're like a religious zealot. Even though you know what you are saying is untrue, you post it over and over. This isn't over copyright, this is about breaking a term in the EULA.

      Follow carefully, as any one of these points alone are sufficient to show Apple to be full of shit.

      1. If it weren't for the EULA (or a pre-existing contractual arrangement), it would be possible to install this or any product on any machine and then sell that system with the original software package.

      2. The EULA is adding extra terms to the protections of copyright law. Copyright law does not cover copies made on the computer for the purposes of running that software.

      3. Installing an operating system with drivers to make it work on a particular hardware platform is not "creating a derivative work". The fact that the Judge is an idiot doesn't mean that decades of innovation in computer hardware and software have passed without anyone regarding driver installation as "creating a derivative work" of the OS.

      4. mach_kernel and various other base parts of the OS are covered by more liberal licenses than the closed source UI. Apple is welcome to _try_ to add extra restrictions to what is done with all these components - as a reading of its EULA implies - but, in doing so, it forfeits the right to distribute any of the GPL licensed software it uses. Under copyright law, not EULA.

      Fortunately, Apple hasn't done anything remarkable to enterprise or academia since pushing G5 usage for clustering over 5 years ago. They stopped showing a serious interest in openness when they closed down OpenDarwin, having used them for social bootstrapping of their OS X project. They're just a mid-range mass market consumer toy supplier and fashion accessory peddler: great for the short term profiteer, useless to the long term investor and serious user. Anyone want to buy a late 2006 iMac? It's running Windows 7, so I can actually use it, but I promise to put the original OS X back on it.

    3. Re:right, that does it by butlerm · · Score: 1

      This case did not turn on the validity of the EULA, and that is a good thing, because the EULA's days are rightfully numbered - bizarre legal fiction that they are.

  8. The only question is by garethharris · · Score: 0, Redundant

    who funded this exercise and why?

    1. Re:The only question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who funded this exercise and why?

      well, if you are looking for conspiracy theories, the best I've heard so far, actually making the most sense looking at who is gaining from this, is from a poster above you: http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1479918&cid=30456726

  9. first sale by Weezul · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Sad, the whole case should have hinged upon whether Psystar was buying their copies of Mac OS X.

    The judge should have thrown *this* case out based upon the doctrine of first sale. In response, Apple should have then changed their upgrade path to "free for people with genuine Apple hardware", sued psystar a second time. Apple should have then won easily once their upgrade path no longer required a "sale".

    Instead, the case hinged upon the fact that Psystar didn't have trained monkeys sticking each separate Mac OS X disk into each machine, retarded.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    1. Re:first sale by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The judge should have thrown *this* case out based upon the doctrine of first sale.

      First Sale doctrine does not allow anyone to modify and redistribute someone else's copyrighted work without permission. If Psystar sold boxes of unopened OS X and a computer with no OS and a copy of their software to install OS X onto the blank computer, it would be another matter. The fact they modified OS X to run on a generic PC means they have to get permission of the original copyright owner (Apple) before they make it a business to resell it.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:first sale by Yvan256 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is no doctrine of first sale since software is usually licensed. Two different things.

    3. Re:first sale by couchslug · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "Sad."

      Not really.

      If people want software freedom they should use Free and Open software, and every
      attempt by Apple and Microsoft to micromanage their products is good news.

      I'm fine with Apple blocking clone makers. It doesn't inconvenience me in the least since I don't
      use Apple products or crave their operating system, however good they may be.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:first sale by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "If Psystar sold boxes of unopened OS X and a computer with no OS and a copy of their software to install OS X onto the blank computer, it would be another matter."

      If they sold their clone with two DVD drives and set it to boot one with a Linux live CD , they might be able to modify the installation on the fly instead of requiring a modified OS X image.

      Psystar wouldn't be producing a modified product because the customer could perform the actual installation. The boot DVD could include various other options such as live Linux rescue, memory testing, etc.

      Anyone geeky enough to want an Apple clone should be able to handle installing their operating system.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    5. Re:first sale by Theaetetus · · Score: 4, Informative

      The judge should have thrown *this* case out based upon the doctrine of first sale.

      Instead, the case hinged upon the fact that Psystar didn't have trained monkeys sticking each separate Mac OS X disk into each machine, retarded.

      Well, no, the case hinged on the fact that Psystar loaded an image of OSX (permissible format shifting), modified the image (permissible fair use), and then copied that image (impermissible reproduction), and sold the modified image (impermissible creation and distribution of a derivative work). But sure, go on believing that the judge is a moron who doesn't understand network installs, in spite of the fact that he's expressly referred to them twice in his decisions. I'm sure you know better.

    6. Re:first sale by itsdapead · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Instead, the case hinged upon the fact that Psystar didn't have trained monkeys sticking each separate Mac OS X disk into each machine, retarded.

      No - when monkey sticks disc into machine, monkey makes a second copy of the software (on the hard drive). If that machine's not an Apple, you've violated your licence - go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

      "First sale" means that, if they destroy all the other copies, they can re-sell the original disc. That's all.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    7. Re:first sale by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      First Sale doctrine does not allow anyone to modify and redistribute someone else's copyrighted work without permission.

      This is the part that annoys me, Did Apple include the source code to OS X? If not, how could they have committed copyright infringement? They did not copy ANYTHING, they modified a program(s)?

      A program is compiled set instructions, it is a machine, a machine does not have copyrights they use patents. If we were talking about a car you don't see GM out there declaring custom parts as breaking their copyright on their engines!

    8. Re:first sale by Weezul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First sale clearly should allow modification of copyrighted works though. If you mod a bike, you can resell it. If you mod a MacBook, you can resell it. etc.

      You don't seem to understand that this case will be used by all manor of assholes to attack all sorts of legitimate mods, possibly even classical first sale situations like cars.

      Apple should have won the case eventually, but *only* by modifying their business practice to thoroughly avoid "selling" the OS alone. Apple cannot be compelled to sell the OS alone since they are not a monopoly, btw.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    9. Re:first sale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Compiled instructions are also copyrighted.

    10. Re:first sale by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find the doctrine of first sale applies to retail sales to private individuals. This is about one company purchasing another companies goods, which is a contract to which any terms can be applied (within the limits of applicable law). Plus, even if Psystar bought OSX, they still have to license to modify that copyright work and resell it. If this case had been the purchase, modification and reselling of a motion picture or music track, would you think that was OK?

    11. Re:first sale by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Tangible goods aren't subject to copyright. The design might be.

    12. Re:first sale by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem with your bike analogy is that the bike is not copyrighted. Fair use allows you to modify a copyrighted work in certain ways. First sale allows you to sell copyrighted work "as-is". Neither fair use nor first sale allows you to both modify and re-sell a copyrighted work. Copyright law specifically says only the copyright owner can allow modification and redistribution. Can you take a copyrighted song from an artist, remix it, and then re-sell it? Not without the copyright owner's permission.

      While others may use this as an attack against modders, those who mod have fair use as a defense as long as they don't change anything with a copyright and they don't sell their mods. Modders who sell their mods on ebay, craigslist are in a legal grey area as there have not been many decisions on this. Technically there is enough merit for someone to sue and they have enough defense to make it to trial.

      Where this decision is not grey is that Psystar is not a hobbyist. Psystar is a business. Psystar admitted to violating copyright laws, and provided no real defense for their actions.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    13. Re:first sale by Weezul · · Score: 1

      Yes, but *that* redistribution meant mass produced copying. If I xerox my highlighted textbook, my highlights will actually *add* to my fair use defense, so your argument is invalid.

      Copyright law cannot make sense unless you either say (a) a single copy is a legal entity, i.e. my argument, or else (b) recognize that copyright infringement is question of scale, i.e. return to the historical definition, exclude friend to friend copying, etc.

      Yes, psystar would have been guilty of copyright infringement under (b), but the world has been moving away from (b) and towards (a) for a very long time, largely due to the copyright lobby getting it's panties in a wad over every new technology, like records for example.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    14. Re:first sale by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Yes, but *that* redistribution meant mass produced copying. If I xerox my highlighted textbook, my highlights will actually *add* to my fair use defense, so your argument is invalid.

      Highlighting is not considered modification because copyright in a book's case is the content. You did not change the words of the book. Fair use allows to modify your book as long as you don't sell it. If you re-wrote the book by changing the words and sold it, that is copyright infringement. The key word is "and".

      As for scale, the copyright does not recognize scale as whether the copyright is valid or if infringement occurred. Scale only affects whether it is worth the copyright holder's time and money to pursue the matter (and whether they even know) and the amount of damages if successful. The copyright holder probably won't go after you if you sold 1 book even though they are within their rights to pursue the matter. You could provide fair use as a defense. But Psystar did not sell 1 copy. Psystar is not a hobbyist. It is a business and Apple had a strong case.

      Yes, psystar would have been guilty of copyright infringement under (b), but the world has been moving away from (b) and towards (a) for a very long time, largely due to the copyright lobby getting it's panties in a wad over every new technology, like records for example.

      Copyright Act is very clear on this. The Copyright Act of 1976 (US Title Code 17) has been amended a number of times for new technologies. Section 117 explicitly deals with computer programs. Section a says you may modify your copy to get it to run. Section b says you may sell your copy "as-is" but you may not modify and re-sell without the owners permission.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    15. Re:first sale by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      That is my point, compile instructions should not be copyrighted any more than machined parts. If I make a CAD drawing of a part, the CAD drawing can be copyrighted, the part itself cannot.

      The compiled instructions are no longer in the realm of copyright, they are now a mechanical process and should fall out of the realm of copyright.

  10. Re:ultimate consipiracy by intheshelter · · Score: 1

    Nice theory. On a related note I hear the Flat Earth Society is looking for new members. You may want to apply and supply them with a copy of your last post. Something tells me they will fast-track your membership application.

  11. Re:ultimate consipiracy by jbezorg · · Score: 1

    So,.... shoot yourself in the foot to establish that shooting yourself in the foot is bad?

    --
    I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
  12. Yes - but... by itsdapead · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

    Standard answer to all these types of comment: Microsoft enjoys a monopoly position and hence is subject to antitrust regulations. Apple hasn't (certainly not in computers - more debatably in music) and isn't. There really is one law for Microsoft and another for Apple.

    As far as copyright is concerned. As long as the law accepts that the software you "buy" is licensed rather than owned, the copyright holder can impose whatever terms they want. The principle is no different from saying that some versions of Vista could not be used on virtual machines, or that the OEM Windows that came with your old PC can't be used on your new PC.

    However, since Microsoft have ~90% of the personal computer operating system market, Intel have ~80% of the personal computer CPU market, any attempt to tie them would likely be challenged under antitrust law.

    Psystar tried the antitrust line against Apple earlier in the case but it was thrown out on the grounds that Apple didn't have a dominant position in the personal computer OS market and the judge din't buy the argument that having a monopoly on the "OS X market" didn't count ("Brand X" will always have a monopoly on "Brand X" products. Duh!)

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:Yes - but... by tyrione · · Score: 1

      Say Microsoft added a clause that Microsoft Window could _only_ be run on Intel machines. Would this ruling make it truly illegal to sell AMD machines with Windows on?

      Standard answer to all these types of comment: Microsoft enjoys a monopoly position and hence is subject to antitrust regulations. Apple hasn't (certainly not in computers - more debatably in music) and isn't. There really is one law for Microsoft and another for Apple.

      As far as copyright is concerned. As long as the law accepts that the software you "buy" is licensed rather than owned, the copyright holder can impose whatever terms they want. The principle is no different from saying that some versions of Vista could not be used on virtual machines, or that the OEM Windows that came with your old PC can't be used on your new PC.

      However, since Microsoft have ~90% of the personal computer operating system market, Intel have ~80% of the personal computer CPU market, any attempt to tie them would likely be challenged under antitrust law.

      Psystar tried the antitrust line against Apple earlier in the case but it was thrown out on the grounds that Apple didn't have a dominant position in the personal computer OS market and the judge din't buy the argument that having a monopoly on the "OS X market" didn't count ("Brand X" will always have a monopoly on "Brand X" products. Duh!)

      Cry me a river about Microsoft being put upon while having a Monopoly. I just don't know what I will ever do knowing that Bill Gates won't always be the wealthiest man in the world.

    2. Re:Yes - but... by jmerlin · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why would this only apply to software? We see that in digital media if you purchase a copy, you OWN that single copy, though you're not permitted to make another copy (while the original remains in existence) unless it's fair use (personal backups, short clips in an academic media presentation shown to a small group of people, etc). So then I can watch my DVD on *ANY* DVD player I want (well OK there's been some gray area here, sue me). I can listen to that CD I bought on any CD player I want, and I can rip the songs to mp3 format and listen to them on any mp3 device I have. Why is it that software has this plushy magical "oh noes we're so special we must have special rules in the copyright law" belief? As far as copyright goes, it's been found in federal cases that when someone purchases a copy of a copyrighted material, he/she OWNS THAT EXACT COPY and should therefore be able to do with it as he/she pleases insofar as it does not violate copyright law. We've seen that making copies of software is fine as long as it's "fair use" as well (personal copies, backups, installing it on different machines wherein it doesn't violate the licensing agreement -- as in maximum of 1 machine may have it INSTALLED at any time). So then what's with this judge saying that it's unlawful for someone to take a copy of a piece of software that the purchaser OWNS and saying that they have absolutely *NO RIGHT* to copy it onto another machine that they also own, wouldn't this just be another case of fair use? And technically, if somehow Apple has made a case that copying their software is a violation of the rules of this universe (or whatever bullshit they are spouting here), what about the intermediate copies made loading the software into memory for execution? If I put in RAM not cleared by Apple and/or its corporate bed buddies, and that software is loaded onto that RAM, what then? If I connect any device via USB that has a processor that might serve to run any portion of the software AT ALL (such as shared execution or something, granted this is a contrived example), would this violate some kind of law (maybe that I can't append USB devices to a computer with USB ports?) If I attach an external drive to this machine am I not permitted to copy the data over to it (say I'm upgrading or re-installing OSX)? If I attach a second monitor NOT sold by Apple or "approved" in any manner (just a standard DVI or VGA enabled monitor), can't I have the display run to my second monitor? Can't I change the video card for a better one in some models (not sure on this one)?

      It sounds to me, if those situations are completely legal, then there's absolutely no way that it can be illegal for someone to copy and run the software on another machine, because the above conditions are identical to doing so. From where is this oddity of law coming? It's inconsistent with the copyright laws we've seen but at the same time claims to be a copyright violation? Software is independent of hardware. Unless their software in some way relies solely on the hardware being sold (ie, it's part of the software product, part A doesn't work without part B and vice versa). Otherwise I see this as a tie-in which have been found to be illegal in a lot of cases: you can only buy this product from us (not just at a discount, literally *ONLY*) IF you also purchase another product from us (where this second product is VASTLY overpriced compared with any competitor) where this second product is identical in operation to a competitors product. Oh well. Continue being an evil troll Apple. If I ever buy OSX (which I won't, pirating is better because it doesn't give you money to pursue frivolous and harmful litigation against companies which might provide fairer pricing to the end-users cutting into your "bottom line"), I'll continue to run it on non-Apple sanctioned hardware. Fuck you. And fuck the corrupt judges who found in favor of Apple. Let me guess what they got for Christmas... brand new MacBook Pro laptops donated to everyone in their offices and families? Wouldn't be a shocker.

    3. Re:Yes - but... by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Why would this only apply to software?

      Because virtually every commerical software publisher has interpreted the law that way, and although there is some legal uncertainty, "No Court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.".

      However, since pretty much all commercial software publishers use EULAs to restrict what you can do with "your copy" (e.g. OEM versions, no running on virtual machines, upgrades, educational versions, liability disclaimers, no publishing benchmarks...) why should Apple not be able to do the same?

      Let me guess what they got for Christmas... brand new MacBook Pro laptops donated to everyone in their offices and families?

      I very much doubt it (if only because they're lawyers - $2000 wouldn't cover dinner!) - but if they did I'm sure they just stacked them alongside all the goodies from non-Apple manufacturers who didn't want them to invalidate the principle of software licenses.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  13. There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things the by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things the right way that may take longer (as they will not use a image) but is in the law.

  14. Backwards.... by Viewsonic · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Wasn't the whole Microsoft thing getting fined because Microsoft were telling vendors they couldn't sell their OS if those vendors also sold Linux on the same machines? How is this any different with Apple telling vendors they can't sell OSX on machines? The judge is saying Apple can sell their OS on only their machines, while telling Microsoft they can't?

    What?

    1. Re:Backwards.... by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Wasn't the whole Microsoft thing getting fined because Microsoft were telling vendors they couldn't sell their OS if those vendors also sold Linux on the same machines? How is this any different with Apple telling vendors they can't sell OSX on machines? The judge is saying Apple can sell their OS on only their machines, while telling Microsoft they can't?

      What?

      Companies that have been convicted of anti-trust violations have different laws applied to them. This is a newsflash from 1930.

    2. Re:Backwards.... by fracai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because Apple didn't tell Psystar that they could sell OS X machines as long as they didn't sell Windows or Linux machines as well. They just said, "You can't sell OS X machines."

      This has nothing to do with monopolies or anti-trust.

      --
      -- i am jack's amusing sig file
    3. Re:Backwards.... by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wasn't the whole Microsoft thing getting fined because Microsoft were telling vendors they couldn't sell their OS if those vendors also sold Linux on the same machines? How is this any different with Apple telling vendors they can't sell OSX on machines? The judge is saying Apple can sell their OS on only their machines, while telling Microsoft they can't?

      Basic copyright law. Copyright law allows you to tell people what they can do with _your_ software. Microsoft tried to prevent people from installing Linux. Linux is not Microsoft software. Microsoft has no right to tell anyone what they can do with their Linux software. Apple told people what they can do with MacOS X, which is Apple's software. Apple has every right to tell you what you can do with Apple's software. And Apple allows and even supports installation of Windows and Linux on Apple computers.

    4. Re:Backwards.... by Viewsonic · · Score: 1

      I still don't see how this is different. Microsoft wasn't saying what the vendors could do with Linux. They were just saying if they chose to install it, they couldn't sell machines with Windows. The vendors were still able to do whatever they wanted, it was their choice. It was Microsofts choice of them not selling Microsofts software. To quote you: "Copyright law allows you to tell people what they can do with _your_ software." which is what Microsoft was doing, wasn't it? I bet Apple would have no problem selling OSX via Psystar if they were on Apple branded machines. How is it any different?

    5. Re:Backwards.... by Viewsonic · · Score: 1

      Companies that have been convicted of anti-trust violations have different laws applied to them. This is a newsflash from 1930.

      At this point in time that I was referring to, Microsoft was not yet convicted of anti-trust violations.

    6. Re:Backwards.... by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Companies that have been convicted of anti-trust violations have different laws applied to them. This is a newsflash from 1930.

      At this point in time that I was referring to, Microsoft was not yet convicted of anti-trust violations.

      Since Microsoft first faced anti-trust charges in 1991, and Linux was written in 1991, and you're talking about the "Microsoft thing getting fined because Microsoft were telling vendors they couldn't sell their OS if those vendors also sold Linux on the same machines", I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that what you're talking about was after Microsoft was convicted of anti-trust violations.

    7. Re:Backwards.... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Because Apple have said "you can buy and use this software (OS X) for use on Apple branded machines only" - Psystar were not doing that.

      That's the same as MS saying "we won;t sell you these copies of Windows if you also sell Linux machines" except that it then also brings into play the antitrust issue of using your monopoly position to force your vendors to not carry products you don;t approve of. If Apple did this, then the vendor would say "fair enough, we won't carry Apple products", but if MS say that, it's a little harder to justify removing a product that is going to make up a sizeable portion of your bottom line (PC with Windows preinstalled) - MS knows this and wields the fact like a big stick to push its own agenda (limit Linux exposure to the public).

    8. Re:Backwards.... by butlerm · · Score: 1

      Copyright law allows you to tell people what they can do with _your_ software.

      No, it doesn't. Copyright prohibits people from doing a number of things without authorization from the copyright holder. It has absolutely nothing with the ability to tell people what other things they may and may not do with copyrighted works.

    9. Re:Backwards.... by sorak · · Score: 1

      antitrust laws.

    10. Re:Backwards.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has every right to tell you what you can do with Apple's software.

      If I buy a box containing a copy of some software, that box and its contents are mine. They can tell me what I am or am not allowed to do with some software running on a computer at Apple HQ (their webservers, for example), but what I do in my home, with my computer, and my software (which they happened to write), is my business.

      Honestly - I've even heard people talking about locking down iPhones as 'Apple doing what it wants with Apple's hardware'. If you buy something, you own it. This should not be a difficult concept to understand.

  15. Too bad the DMCA goes against copyright law... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It has no mechanisms to allow for encrypted content to come into the public domain after the copyright term has expired.
    Without said mechanisms, it essentially extends copyrights to eternity through making decrypting illegal forever.
    We need to have publicly available keys that when the copyright term is over, unlocks the content for all future use.

    1. Re:Too bad the DMCA goes against copyright law... by codegen · · Score: 1

      It has no mechanisms to allow for encrypted content to come into the public domain after the copyright term has expired.

      Since you don't seem to have figured it out yet, the copyright term will *never* expire. Congress will keep extending it retroactively every 10 years.

      --
      Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
  16. Live with it... by itsdapead · · Score: 2, Informative

    Every item I now produce and sell will be accompanied by an envelope only obvious once the buyer has brought it home.

    That's already the case with virtually any product more technically sophisticated than a bunch of banannas. Come to think of it, when I buy a bunch of bannanas and pay with my debit card, the checkout flashes up the mystic runes "Refer to terms." :-(

    Apple is just playing the game by the rules in force. Every other non-FOSS software house tells you what you can and can't do with "your" copy, too.

    Oh, and to be fair, the outside of the box for OS X does say quite clearly that you need a Macintosh computer to use it.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:Live with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every item I now produce and sell will be accompanied by an envelope only obvious once the buyer has brought it home.

      That's already the case with virtually any product more technically sophisticated than a bunch of banannas.

      So? I can print a set of terms on my t-shirt saying that by reading this t-shirt you agree to sex me. What matters is not what I write, but whether I can use a Court to make the words on my t-shirt have any legal meaning. Fortunately, no contract can make you have sex with me, and looking at my t-shirt doesn't count as agreement with whatever is written on it.

      Apple is just playing the game by the rules in force.

      No. EULA terms are both accepted and rejected by various courts in various jurisdictions. The majority of jurisdictions globally have never enforced any click-through EULA term. Apple is helping innovate pro-EULA precedent; it's not playing by any rules.

      (Also, what is it with morally bankrupt justification of something by whether it is legal? You realise that corporations only have to strive to do what they say they will do, and that there is no obligation to make a profit at all costs, yes?)

      Oh, and to be fair, the outside of the box for OS X does say quite clearly that you need a Macintosh computer to use it.

      Telling me what's supported is not the same thing as telling me what could result in legal force against me if I don't comply.

    2. Re:Live with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's already the case with virtually any product more technically sophisticated than a bunch of banannas.

      Actually, bananas are quite sophisticated. In fact, they are more on topic than they might first appear since they are in fact CLONES!

      http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unfortunate-sex-life-of-the-banana

    3. Re:Live with it... by OverZealous.com · · Score: 1

      Every other non-FOSS software house tells you what you can and can't do with "your" copy, too.

      Actually, a lot of FOSS tell you what you can and can't do, just as well. For example: with GPL, you can't modify the application, and release the new version under a different license.

      As pointed out above, copyright is a large part of the reason the current FOSS software community currently works.

      Even BSD licensed software requires that you include a copy of the license, and you can't use the original developer(s) names to endorse the new ones.

  17. Future Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would this be the same legal system that will be bringing antitrust charges against Apple at some point in the future?

  18. open source it by StripedCow · · Score: 1

    well now that it is illegal, they might as well open source it...

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
  19. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by compro01 · · Score: 1

    Or do it the same way and open up shop outside the US where the DMCA doesn't exist.

    --
    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  20. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by dbet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Right. Their mistake was modifying OSX. I don't see what would prevent them from selling a computer, a sealed retail copy of OSX, and a short explanation of how to install it.

  21. Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by C_Kode · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Steve Jobs should be beaten to a pulp. So many people hate Microsoft for the what they did yet are Apple fanboys at the same time whom are doing the same @#$%ing thing!

    I think Apple makes some nice products, but I absolutely despise Steve Jobs and how he has cloned Apple into Microsoft 2.0. I hope they get crushed by the EU and at some point the US for anti-competitive practices.

    1. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please elaborate on how you find this to be a bad thing rather than randomly attacking companies without any basis.

    2. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple is the most evil, anti-competitive company in the industry. If the company went under today, it would only be a good thing for the world.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How do you think Unix vendors in the 70s to 90s operated? Do you think it HP, IBM, DEC/Compaq, SGI or Sun would let some unlicensed company buy copies of their operating system and put it on cheap machines and call it a HP-UX/AIX/Digital/Irix/SunOS system? No, it's their software and they can choose how it is redistributed. The end user has a lot more leeway than a reseller.

      (actually for some of those old Unix vendors a lot of it isn't their software, it is merely licensed to them, and they may not have had permission to allow a rogue reseller to operate even if they wanted to)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      They stomp around with their 5% market share size boots and simply crush competing personal computer vendors like Dell and HP!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    5. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I think your sig should read "Nerd Rage Games".

      It would be more apt.

      Microsoft 2.0? Hardly. Read some of the other replies already appended to your post - I don't want to repeat too much.

    6. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're asking this guy to actually EXPLAIN his thinking?

    7. Re:Man, I can't stand what Apple has become by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steve Jobs should be beaten to a pulp.

      And I seriously think you should be arrested, tried and convicted for making such a threat.

  22. yeah by Weezul · · Score: 1

    Fair enough, but the legal precedent against the doctrine of first sale is still bad news. As I said, Apple should have won eventually, just not this easily.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  23. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by rgviza · · Score: 1

    They aren't authorized to sell OSX at all, shrink wrapped or not, and the judge put an injunction on them to prevent them from doing so.

    What they can do is offer a patch on their site. Users can buy OSX at the crapple store, download their patch, patch the OS and do what they want with their copy.

    That's all they need to do to get around the DMCA. Good luck going after users...

    --
    Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
  24. My mind must be in the gutter again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Raise your hand if you misread that title as "... Injunction Against Pornstar".

    /

    1. Re:My mind must be in the gutter again... by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Ooh, there's a pornstar or two I'd like to injunct against!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  25. re: hated for Steve Jobs WHY? by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess I don't follow your "logic" here?

    Apple is essentially running their business the SAME way *all* personal computer businesses did back in the 1980's, before the "PC clone" became the de-facto standard machine. Many of the people I encounter who have a strong dislike of Microsoft are simply saying they hate the way the company's products homogenized everything in the personal computer world. They essentially got things to the point where you either ran Microsoft's OS and flagship applications (like Office), or else your alternatives were pretty much all non-commercial products developed by community (like Linux or BSD). These people LIKE Apple because they're the last holdout of the "old way" of selling computers, where each manufacturer had a proprietary system that they tried to enhance and prove was the "best way" to use a computer. They're pretty much the last relevant competitor to Microsoft products that goes "toe to toe" with them, claiming they offer an "easy to use" solution appropriate for anybody -- even opening hundreds of retail stores to ensure the "average Joe" can view and purchase their offerings locally (since Microsoft products had that same visibility on store shelves everywhere).

    In my mind, Apple is *far* from becoming "Microsoft 2.0". For starters, Steve Jobs has stated on multiple occasions that he has no interest in having the MOST market-share. He's not interested in playing the "grow as fast as possible, as large as possible" game. Sure, he wants Apple to be successful and its market-share to grow ... but if being the "biggest" was his true goal, why would he sit on HUGE cash reserves and not re-invest them in growing the company larger? Additionally, he's refrained from putting any type of Product Activation in any version of OS X. There's not even so much as a CD key to be entered. It simply verifies you're trying to install it on a machine Apple actually built for the purpose, and installs with no hassles. Apple is able to do that primarily because they actually sell their own computer systems, unlike Microsoft. (Hey, another difference!)

    I'm not defending Steve Jobs on a personal level. I get the idea that like many successful CEO types, he's arrogant, demanding, and tends to be rude and judgmental. (I'd also question his claimed religious beliefs, given the realities of his lifestyle and character ... but maybe that's a bit unfair, since religion is such a personal thing to begin with.) But none of that is really relevant to whether or not I think he's running his company well. I think without Steve Jobs stepping in, Apple would be dead or at best, completely irrelevant today.

  26. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by butlerm · · Score: 1

    That is the point of "Psystar 2". What is to stop the owners from forming a new corporation, acquiring the operations of the original Psystar, and proceeding on a more cautious basis, with the legal ability to sell unmodified copies of Mac OS X?

  27. Re: first sale vs. EULAs by butlerm · · Score: 1

    So they say. In reality, a retail EULA is mostly an exercise in wishful thinking.

    At least half of the courts that have addressed the question in the United States have held that retail end user license agreements are legal fictions, because the copy is indeed actually owned by the buyer, and as such a license to use that which you already own is unnecessary (and hence superfluous). See here, for example.

  28. Re: first sale and modified works by butlerm · · Score: 1

    There are several ways to avoid the restriction on reselling modified works. Generally speaking, you have to sell the work to the end user before any modification occurs. Once the user owns a copy of the software, you *can* legitimately make modifications on his or her behalf such that the copy can be utilized on a single machine. When the end user takes physical possession is irrelevant. cf. 17 USC 117(a).

  29. It's over? by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

    So this is finally over...again?

  30. Re:Section 117 vs. 1201 by butlerm · · Score: 1

    Section 117 and 1201 are in conflict here. Section 117(a) specifically gives the end user or someone that they authorize to make adaptations necessary for the utilization of a protected work on a single machine.

    Assuming that making such an adaptation would otherwise violate the DMCA (the wording is awfully vague) it isn't entirely clear whether doing something explicitly allowed by 117(a) would legally be prohibited or not. 117(a) states "it is not an infringement" after all.

  31. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    What PsyStar was doing (modifying, copying, and selling copyrighted software in quantity) is illegal under pretty much any interpretation of copyright law, so they'd only be successful in places without copyright enforcement. It would be illegal to ship their machines to most countries where people might actually be interested in a MacOSX machine.

    Selling a computer with the express purpose of having MacOSX installed on it might well constitute contributory infringement, and PsyStar can expect to be under scrutiny.

    Individual users making their own hackintoshes may well be covered by fair use, and I haven't seen Apple show any interest in stopping them.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  32. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things the right way that may take longer (as they will not use a image) but is in the law.

    There is no way to get around contributory copyright infringement (because the SLA makes installation of MacOS X on a non-Apple computer copyright infringement), and DMCA violation (because there is some rather rubbish DRM in MacOS X that prevents it from being installed on a non-Apple computer unless you do something to get around the DRM).

  33. Re:Section 117 vs. 1201 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    You bring up 117(a) every time this Psystar issue comes up. You selectively forget about 117(b) every time which explicitly forbids modification and redistribution without the permission of the copyright owner. Also "copyright owner" means Apple in this case not the owner of the copy of OS X (end user). Only Apple can authorize modification and redistribution.

    Also 117a allows user to run the software. 1201 expressly forbids circumventing protections. It may be a fair use defense for a hackintosh owner to put OS X onto a generic PC and bypass protections. 117b explicitly forbids redistribution of that modification.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  34. Re:ultimate consipiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SCIENCE!

  35. ...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    Psystar could have the last laugh by open-sourcing their technology before going belly-up. Or, if there is an injuction against that, there's always "leaking" it to the torrent sites.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      It is already well known, and popular. You can build yourself a hackintosh with OS X running on generic hardware with a retail copy of OS X already, and Apple doesn't really care one way or the other. They know all about it, but have yet to do anything to stop it (depending on whether you think that removing the ability for 10.6 to run on a processor that they do not sell was to prevent hackintoshes or was just coincidence).

      No need for any leaks - the information is out there plain as day.

    2. Re:...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Ok, so out of curiosity, what value add was Psystar providing?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Convenience. You open the box, plug it in and it boots OS X.

      It's otherwise identical to a hackintosh you can build yourself.

    4. Re:...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      ...so, it sounds like, nothing of value was lost.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    5. Re:...as Psystar rides gently into the sunset... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the Psystar 'technology' was just lifted from the Hackintosh community and resold. The info is hardly a secret, after all.

  36. Re:Section 117 vs. 1201 by butlerm · · Score: 1

    If you read my comment carefully, you will notice that I in no way suggest doing anything that violated section 117(b). There is no "redistribution" at all.

  37. Uh, How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh, How? How is this copyright infringement as per DMCA when the DMCA says you can break copy protection for interoperability?

    Truly your judges are insane.

  38. They didn't modify the image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They didn't modify the image. They modified the BIOS to fake out the installer to think it was apple provided computer.

    It wasn't Apple's BIOS.

    ------Clue

    O -----You

    1. Re:They didn't modify the image by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1
      If you read the decision, Psystar admitted to replacing the bootloader and some system files:

      Psystar infringed Apple's exclusive right to create derivative works of Mac OS X. It did this by replacing original files in Mac OS X with unauthorized software files. Specifically, it made three modifications: (1) replacing the Mac OS X bootloader with a different bootloader to enable an unauthorized copy of Mac OS X to run on Psystar's computers; (2) disabling and removing Apple kernel extension files; and (3) adding non-Apple kernel extensions. These modifications enabled Mac OS X to run on a non-Apple computer. It is undisputed that Psystar made these modifications (Def. Opp. 6-7).3

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  39. Microsoft doesn't make PC's by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

    Agreed. This whole argument might look interesting at first glance, but they can't force Dell to stop selling PC's with Windows, or Ford Motor Company to bundle GM auto diagnostics with their cars, it has no merit. Apple is a PC Manufacturer in a closed hardware system. They do not license OS X for resale. If you don't like them, don't buy them (or smash them with a hammer if that suits you).

    Microsoft doesn't even make PC's. They are primarily a software company (gaming and zune aside), and all of their popular software, including the OS, is licensed for resale. OS X is not.

    Psystar took another companies OS, hacked the EFI so that it would boot on non-Apple hardware and then sold it, bundled with an 'OpenMac', for a profit. Cheesy name aside, the hardware wasn't the issue. The primary issues was Psystar taking another companies OS, reselling it without license, bypassing DMCA, and violating the license agreement.

  40. Re: hated for Steve Jobs WHY? by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Apple WAS one of those companies from back in the 1980s. They USED to sell one of the most open machines available. You could buy expansion cards to put into it. Circuit diagrams for the expansion bus were available. You could build your own stuff for it.

    In many ways, things have gone downhill since the days when the 6502 ruled the world.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  41. Modern Copyright = You still own it after the sale by N0Man74 · · Score: 0

    This is one of the ways Copyright has gone so off track.

    It has ceased to be simply a way of protecting a copyright holder from their work being published so that someone else doesn't try to publish it and cut the copyright holder out of the picture. It was a legal tool to protect copyright holders from companies.

    It's increasingly moving towards the Copyright holder retaining ownership of the work even after the sale.

    Frankly, if Psystar paid for the OS copies legally, and made it clear that the OS that he was reselling was modified, there shouldn't be a copyright issue. That's not the way it is legally, but it's the way it should be.

    Of all the analogies I see here, I think that it's more in line with someone selling used college textbooks with notes written and additional information marking up the book. Is that a derivative work?

  42. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by butlerm · · Score: 1

    Software license agreements have no power to expand the scope of copyright or declare that something is copyright infringement when the law states that it is not.

    Distributing software that makes an adaptation to disable the Apple hardware check might be a violation of the DMCA in any case, all the more reason to rewrite the DMCA. It should have been written to prohibit devices that expedite illegal copyright infringement, rather than implying the ability for a manufacturer to enforce any restriction it can dream up, by force of law.

    Region restrictions, for example. You buy a DVD in Europe, and it no longer plays when you return to the United States. Should a device that lets you play DVDs purchased in foreign countries really be against the law? Laws like that should be treated with the utmost contempt. The DMCA as written, is a perversion of the first order.

  43. The solution is obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quit buying Apple products, seriously, just stop.

  44. DMCA is the issue by jriskin · · Score: 1

    IMHO they should be able to create a computer that pretends to be a real mac.

    The part that concerns me is "Circumventing any technological measure that effectively controls access Mac OS X, including, but not limited to, the technological measure used by Apple to prevent unauthorized copying of Mac OS X on non-Apple computers."

    Why shouldn't they be able to make an OS X compatible machine? I agree they shouldn't be able to modify AND redistribute OS X. But shipping a machine that allows OS X to be installed seems perfectly reasonable. Activision went through this with Atari early on, making 'compatible software' and later on there are many cases of 'compatible hardware' that have been allowed. But these days the DMCA prevents this sort of thing,

    "(a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures.—
    (1)
    (A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."

    To me that is just unreasonable. As long as it is not a copyright violation, there shouldn't be any rules restricting your rights build your own device/software to interact with any other device/software if it does not cause any harm to 3rd party system. Although, I'm sure this gets sticky when writing an alternative WoW client or some such that 'cheats' or causes some other form of mahem, currently the line is drawn too far in favor of protection over liberty.

    1. Re:DMCA is the issue by butlerm · · Score: 1

      I agree. The DMCA is perversely broad, in a way that has nothing to do with copyright protection. (Mod parent up)

  45. re: systems in the 80's by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I think what you're lamenting is really just the inevitable growth of the industry as a whole.

    I used to have an 8-bit TRS-80 computer, myself, and it, too had circuit diagrams floating around for it, and 3rd. party add-ons that required opening the case and attaching colored leads to certain parts of the circuit board. Expansion cards? Yep, it had them too, by way of "cartridges" that enhanced the basic hardware (speech synthesizer, etc.).

    But can you *really* expect that not to have changed, as the personal computer moved from a hobbyist interest to a staple item for the general public?

    Truthfully, the expansion cards for PC clones became their single biggest "weak spot" and support headache. That's why the PC industry tried to hard to integrate most of that stuff onto motherboards over time, from the sound card to the serial/parallel/IDE controllers, to the ethernet card. I remember PLENTY of times I bought an expansion card, only to discover my PC no longer booted at all with it installed!

  46. Re: hated for Steve Jobs WHY? by mhollis · · Score: 1

    I remember the 6502...

    Manufacturers can currently make cards that will work in modern Mac Pro computers. In fact, I seriously extended the life of my G4 Mac by installing a SATA card in it so that I could use (more modern and faster) SATA drives with the computer. I also upgraded the GPU. I will probably do something along those lines with my Cheese Grater and, maybe, it will be useful for about 10 years like my last computer.

    The idea around the Apple // computer was that hardware hacks were a good way to extend it. And people sold breadboards that you could install and test on your Apple //. But you really needed to know what you were doing, else you could fry your motherboard and that would be really bad. So the Steve Wozniak part of the Apple Computer company did their best to publish warnings and specifications so that hardware hackers would make innovative stuff for the Apple //.

    Today, hardware hackers are still out there. You can get the complete hardware information you need about a Mac Pro as a hardware developer, so that you can make a card to install in the computer to handle digital audio, VTR control, set up a hard disk array or anything else a Mac can do in the workplace. Were that not the case, there would be no Blackmagic Design, no AJA Video systems, no Digidesign, and no CI Design as just a few examples.

    The spirit of the 1980s still lives on, mostly in the software communities that are writing free, open software. I don't see breadboards for sale these days for Apple computers -- but I don't see them for pee cees either. But that doesn't mean they are not being made. That means I'm not shopping for them.

    I like where we have headed. It used to be that animation, destined for video (which is a much smaller screen than the cinema) took overnight to do just a few seconds, with a really expensive SGI workstation attached to a 1" C-format open reel VTR, recording one frame at a time (and you hoped there would be no h-phase errors, else you would have to start rendering all over). Today, we can play Doom real-time on our 24" monitors attached to our inexpensive personal computers with better than 30 frames per second render times for each whole frame in widescreen. The "computer" that landed the Lunar Excursion Module on the moon would probably be an inferior cousin to the processor you find in a hand calculator today. And those computers were really, really expensive. The Apple // did everything in "character mode," drawing things with very crude graphics developed out of an extended character set. Forget about shading, drop shadows and the like. So, looking at my Apple Studio Display, running in 32-bit color at 1920 x 1200 powered by my NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512 MB of video RAM, I'm seeing a nicer image than the Apple //, hooked up to a monitor or a TV using a box that the FCC said was illegal.

    I'm still bummed that Pystar lost, even though they ought to have in every sense. Here were these scrappy guys out there trying to re-invent the Mac Clone. My first experience with Apple's System Software was with a Mac Clone. but I don't want to go "back to the future" and I don't hate Steve Jobs because of the result.

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  47. Re:Modern Copyright = You still own it after the s by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

    I develop and sell a program for $50. You buy the program, copy it say crack the 'copy protection', and sell it as MyProgram for $40. Can you not see the problem with this?

    While I agree that Copyright and Patent system needs reform, it is still needed. If I couldn't develop and sell my program with some kind of protection, the chances are I'm not going to invest the time to do it.

    Personally I think we need two IP system. One for Creative works (art/books/etc) and another one for Business related things. I agree with artists, writers, etc. retaining copyright for the duration of their life times, no longer. For businesses, they should be granted a provisional patent for 7 years. If they aren't producing a product with that patent by then, it expires. If they are, they get another 7 years of protection.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  48. Re: hated for Steve Jobs WHY? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

    I don't understand this complaint.

    All computers - Macs or PCs - use open standards for expansion buses and I/O ports. It's trivial to get hold of the specs for PCI connectors, and you can still build whatever you like to go into the slot.

    USB is easier still.

    The difference between now and the 80s is that the bar has been raised several times. Back then I could put together a circuit on breadboard, run a few wires to a connector and plug that into the school's Apple-][e. Now the connector requires so much more, and the trivial little BASIC programme I could use to read the I/O ports requires a framework, a compiler, low-level I/O system calls and so on. The basic techniques are not a million miles apart, but it's harder to get stuff going.

  49. Re:Section 117 vs. 1201 by Lars+T. · · Score: 0

    If you read my comment carefully, you will notice that I in no way suggest doing anything that violated section 117(b). There is no "redistribution" at all.

    So what youare suggesting is that if Psystar hadn't done what they have done, it wouldn't have been illegal.

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  50. Re: Section 117 vs. 1201 by butlerm · · Score: 1

    No, I am not quite that stupid. What I am suggesting is that it is not entirely clear whether 117(a) overrides section 1201 or not. The DMCA is one of the most ambiguous statutes ever written.

    And indeed, this question is entirely germane to whether Psystar or another company can be in this business at all. If 117(a) does not apply to the Rebel EFI, it sounds like it may very well be a DMCA violation.

    (Note: My other comment apparently got lost somewhere).

  51. Re:There is still room for Psystar 2 to do things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has parallels in other trades; for example you cannot sell a functioning radio transmitter that operates in certain bands at certain power levels, but you CAN sell a 'kit' that, once built, will have the same function.

    If not Psystar, perhaps some other company may try doing it this way...

  52. GPL is not a EULA by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    For example: with GPL, you can't modify the application, and release the new version under a different license.

    Not quite - The GPL offers you a conditional license to copy, modify and re-distribute the application - something that, regardless of whether you "own a copy" or "have a license", copyright law expressly forbids. If you don't re-distribute, you can ignore the GPL.

    Other EULAs forbid you from doing things that would be permitted under copyright law if you had "bought a copy". The GPL lets you do what the hell you like with "your copy" provided you don't re-distribute it - and its fairly liberal about what "distribution" means.

    Ditto BSD etc.: the conditions only cut in if you do something that wouldn't be permitted under regular copyright.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  53. Re:Modern Copyright = You still own it after the s by N0Man74 · · Score: 0

    Note that I said, "That's not the way it is legally, but it's the way it should be."

    I firmly believe that if I buy a piece of software legally, I should be allowed to modify it and change it as I see fit, if I have the ability to do so, as long as I'm not doing it to redistribute additional copies or to use it for illegal copies that go beyond the realm of fair use, regardless of the EULA says.

    I also firmly believe that I should have the absolute right to resell (transfer ownership) software that I buy legally, regardless of what a EULA says

    And yes, I'd even go as far as to say I don't think it should be illegal to buy a legal copy of software, modify it, and then transfer your ownership of that software to a third party, provided that you do not retain any copies of the software, and the third party is aware that it is modified and agrees to make the purchase with whatever limitations might result. I strongly suspect that anyone buying a "Hackintosh" realizes there are hacks involved.

    No in summary, no, I don't see what the problem is other than copyright holders wanting to maintain control of published works after the first sale appears, and beyond the natural protections against illegal copies being made and someone else publishing and selling the software and cutting them out. Isn't that what copyright is supposed to be for?