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Scientists Crack 'Entire Genetic Code' of Cancer

Entropy98 writes "Scientists have unlocked the entire genetic code of skin and lung cancer. From the article: 'Not only will the cancer maps pave the way for blood tests to spot tumors far earlier, they will also yield new drug targets, say the Wellcome Trust team. The scientists found the DNA code for a skin cancer called melanoma contained more than 30,000 errors almost entirely caused by too much sun exposure. The lung cancer DNA code had more than 23,000 errors largely triggered by cigarette smoke exposure. From this, the experts estimate a typical smoker acquires one new mutation for every 15 cigarettes they smoke. Although many of these mutations will be harmless, some will trigger cancer.' Yet another step towards curing cancer. Though it will probably take many years to study so many mutations."

235 comments

  1. Benign by Smivs · · Score: 4, Funny

    I didn't use to like skin cancer, but it grows on you

    1. Re:Benign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't make fun of cancer? yes you can sir!

    2. Re:Benign by olrik666 · · Score: 1

      Bad joke!

      If I could, I'd lung at you!

      So please stop these jokes if you can, sir.

    3. Re:Benign by FreakyGreenLeaky · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you have a something else growing in your speech centre.

    4. Re:Benign by CookedGryphon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That reminds me of the awesome Tim Minchin song
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx3kMBoeZh0

    5. Re:Benign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's absolutely disgusting. Cancer is not funny in any way.

  2. Powers by sakdoctor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Although many of these mutations will be harmless, some will trigger cancer

    And some will give you super powers.

    1. Re:Powers by NoYob · · Score: 1
      Oozing puss man?

      Chemo barfing woman?

      Bleeding ulceration boy?

      Radiation Man? (from radiation treatment)

      Tumor boy?

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    2. Re:Powers by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good luck with that. I smoked 45 cigarettes yesterday and all I got was fast metabolism 1, deformed body 1, and teleportitis without TC.

    3. Re:Powers by nmb3000 · · Score: 1

      and teleportitis without TC.

      Oooh, I remember when Lieutenant Barclay got that. Pretty nasty stuff.

      Just have them coalesce your pattern through the transient bypass buffer a few times. That should sort you out.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    4. Re:Powers by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Captain Chemo and the Cancer Crusades!

    5. Re:Powers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lung cancer DNA code had more than 23,000 errors largely triggered by cigarette smoke exposure. From this, the experts estimate a typical smoker acquires one new mutation for every 15 cigarettes they smoke.

      At 1 &1/2 packs a day for 20 some years, that puts me about 14,600 mutations to date... which means I'm safe for at least another 10 years, right? So far no cancer... ...still waiting for my X-Men powers though.

    6. Re:Powers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, I'm going out and buying a carton!

    7. Re:Powers by atisss · · Score: 0

      23000*15/365 = 945 divide that by cigarettes per day, and you got smoking years until cancer.. so for me, that's 945/10 cigarettes per day = 94 years.. i'm already smoking 10, so 84 years until mutation.. not bad :D

    8. Re:Powers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the last one wasn't from the cigarettes... are you sure you didn't eat a tengu? Either way, eat more tengus.

  3. Sadly, the article makes no sense by Thagg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What does it mean that melanoma has 30,000 errors in the DNA? Is it that the one melanoma they looked at had 30,000 differences from the other cells in the patient's body? It appears that, far from finding the needle in the haystack, they've found 30,000 haystacks.

    --
    I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
    1. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The breakthrough isn't in the results, it's in the technique. They're developing new methods and software to perform this sort of analysis faster and faster. That's what's big about this work. They can now do a very difficult task much more rapidly than before.

    2. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by johncadengo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have very little background in this area. But I'm curious. If skin cancer is caused by exposure to the sun, then it must be different for each patient? Because it's cause isn't inherited it seems to me that each patient with skin cancer has a unique and individual genetic cause to their skin cancer. Something akin to snow flakes. Perhaps once they find the absolute minimum change within the genes of an otherwise healthy human to having skin cancer, headlines can claim that scientists "crack entire genetic code of cancer."

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    3. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect they looked at tissue from a bunch of melanomas and have generated data showing where they differ from normal samples.

      But 30,000 errors in the DNA doesn't mean those cells were exposed to 30,000 mutating events (the 1 for every 15 cigarettes or whatever). Generally what happens is that a cell gets mutations in a few critical locations and then subsequent issues during cell division do dramatic damage to the genome.

    4. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Informative

      Is it that the one melanoma they looked at had 30,000 differences from the other cells in the patient's body? It appears that, far from finding the needle in the haystack, they've found 30,000 haystacks.

      Not quite. It's more like they ** think ** they've found a map to the 30,000 needles in a single haystack and they hope that the haystacks (individual humans) are similar enough that they can generalize a bit on how to find the other needles in other haystacks.

      FTFAbstract:

      All cancers carry somatic mutations. A subset of these somatic alterations, termed driver mutations, confer selective growth advantage and are implicated in cancer development, whereas the remainder are passengers. Here we have sequenced the genomes of a malignant melanoma and a lymphoblastoid cell line from the same person, providing the first comprehensive catalogue of somatic mutations from an individual cancer. The catalogue provides remarkable insights into the forces that have shaped this cancer genome. The dominant mutational signature reflects DNA damage due to ultraviolet light exposure, a known risk factor for malignant melanoma, whereas the uneven distribution of mutations across the genome, with a lower prevalence in gene footprints, indicates that DNA repair has been preferentially deployed towards transcribed regions. The results illustrate the power of a cancer genome sequence to reveal traces of the DNA damage, repair, mutation and selection processes that were operative years before the cancer became symptomatic.

      The researchers state (and I haven't really had time to look at the article) that they have identified all, or at least the vast majority, of mutations from a single cancer and furthermore have managed to characterize (see above) the mutations. Other researchers have done similar research for other cancers. The idea is that, after all of this information is digested, somebody can use this knowledge to figure out better treatments for cancers. Of course, this remains to be seen. It's reasonable but by no means certain. The babble at the end of the BBC article is typical hyperbole.

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    5. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by moogied · · Score: 1

      Cancer is basically when your cells are broken and are spawning hellish death cells to kill you. These cells 'break' when they mutate. Errors in the DNA has long been assumed as the cause of the cells turning to cancer, so if they found 30k errors in the DNA of melanoma VS standard issue skin cells.. and that one of those 30k errors may be causing cancer. Yes, it is like finding 30k haystacks... however its better then the infinite # of haystacks we had before.

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    6. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that something as random as sun exposure causing enough of just the right errors to trigger cancer is akin to the midevil theories of spontaneous generation.

    7. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by sevennus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember, it takes three events for a cell to become cancerous. 1. It must mutate to be able to express appreciable amounts of telomerase. 2. It must mutate in such a way that it circumvents its apoptosis (self-destruction) checkpoints. 3. It must mutate in such a way to allow constitutive, amplified replication. True, there are probably a gazillion different combinations of different mutations that can cause allow all of these things to happen, but I'm pretty sure it can't be caused by ONE mutation. But it's just my first post, so don't take my word for it.

    8. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not necessarily. If they can find a protein corresponding to one of these mutations that is not produced in a healthy cell: presto, instant cancer test.

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    9. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by maxume · · Score: 1

      And yet it is well documented that increased radiation exposure results in higher rates of cancer.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    10. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by dave562 · · Score: 1

      I've always wondered about that. The test for cancer is to... swallow a bunch of radioactive isotopes and then get zapped by large doses of radiation that cause the swallowed isotopes to show up in a way that an image can be constructed? That sounds like a bad deal to me.

    11. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by scapermoya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it's not quite that simple. there are many many many events that are required, and it can't really be boiled down to those three categories. there are some key players that are almost always inactivated in some way or another across any cancer types (eg p53 or Rb), but many are unique to particular cancers (eg GSK-3b).

      --
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    12. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by izomiac · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's pretty much on target. UV light is absorbed by DNA, and it causes changes like Thymine-Thymine dimers (ATCG are DNA bases, a T-T dimer is when two adjacent T's on the same strand bind to each other). Cells have DNA repair mechanisms, some of which are accurate, others of which are not. If the repair is inaccurate you have a mutation in a semi-random location (needs something like two adjacent thymines, and it probably needs to not be in it's condensed storage form). A mutation in each of about 8 genes that control the cell cycle will lead to uncontrolled replication and further mutation. Certain types of cells are vulnerable to different things, and require certain genes to be knocked out (or overexpressed) to form certain types of cancer. It's all very random, but there are trends within each type of cancer (hence its behavior).

    13. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Ah, but it is somewhat inherited, because pasty white boy is far more likely to get cancer than ultra-dark black man, because his melanin doesn't block the sun and lets more mutations happen.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    14. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by ppanon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The test for cancer is to... swallow a bunch of radioactive isotopes and then get zapped by large doses of radiation that cause the swallowed isotopes to show up in a way that an image can be constructed?

      Well, I'm assuming you're talking about CT/CAT scanning and that's one way to find cancer early when it's still small. Not all imaging techniques involve ingesting radioactives, though. MRIs use very powerful magnets to interact with hydrogen to detect fine structures in the body. Some cancers are more easily detectable with one imaging approach vs. the other. Another way involves waiting until the cancer has progressed and grown so much that it's easy to notice but very likely to kill you.

      Anyways, it's all about risk trade-offs. Dentists also regularly bombard you with low doses of ionizing X-rays to take a picture of your teeth to detect cavities. Not treating those cavities could lead to needing root canals, pulling the tooth, or even bad gum disease that can affect your immune system and heart health.

      The problem with MRI is that it needs very strong magnetic fields and the rapid drop off of magnetic field strength currently make it impractical for use on a torso, as opposed to a head or a limb. Maybe that will change eventually. However even some radiation from a CATScan is a good trade-off if they suspect some types of cancer and it allows them to detect and treat it early.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    15. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by nacturation · · Score: 4, Funny

      But 30,000 errors in the DNA doesn't mean those cells were exposed to 30,000 mutating events (the 1 for every 15 cigarettes or whatever).

      Enough of your logic. You're upsetting the smokers who want to believe that as long as they smoke less than 450,000 cigarettes they won't get cancer.

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    16. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by RDW · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's true that each patient is extremely likely to have a unique 'cancer genome', a specific combination of mutations found only in their tumour. But the vast majority of these will be 'passenger' mutations that aren't relevant to the progress of the tumour. The trick, as you suggest, is to home in on the 'driver' mutations that are really causing the disease. One way to get at these is to look first at the mutations in the coding sequences of known genes (and because of the human genome project and all the work that's followed it, we pretty much know where all the protein-coding genes are located).

      I just had a quick look at both papers, and it turns out that in the lung cancer case, fewer than 100 of the tens of thousands of mutations actually cause an amino acid change in a protein sequence (for the melanoma, the figure is less than 200). This doesn't mean that there aren't other interesting needles to find in the haystack of mutations (e.g. changes in regulatory sequences), but they might as well go after the 'low hanging fruit' first. With current technology, it's very easy to sequence 100-200 genes in a pretty large set of samples from different patients. Any of these genes that turn out to be mutated in multiple tumours immediately become subjects for further study.

      As the technology starts to ramp up and gets cheaper every year, we can begin to go after the less obvious changes. Each of these studies is in effect an entire human genome project (they haven't just done a low resolution map, they've completely sequenced the genomes). Pretty soon we're going to have a large collection of sequenced tumour samples to compare and use to find common alterations.

    17. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by RDW · · Score: 3, Informative

      In these particular studies, they're only looking at 'somatic mutations' (mutations confined to the tumour, and not found in the patient's normal cells). Anything they inherited that might have made them susceptible to cancer in the first place gets 'cancelled out' by comparing the tumour DNA to normal DNA (e.g. from blood). You have to do a different type of study to find susceptibility genes, e.g. by using a large collection of 'normal' DNA samples from a population and collecting their medical data. Right now, this is being done at a relatively low resolution using 'SNP arrays' that usually only look at a few hundred thousand DNA bases (a few million max). But because of genetic linkage, this can still give you very useful information about where the important genes are. When the genome sequencing technology gets _really_ cheap, we can except this sort of study to be done by sequencing too.

    18. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by atmurray · · Score: 1

      In fact you'll find that CT/CAT scans expose you to a comparable amount of radiation as flying: http://www2.ans.org/pi/raddosechart/pdfs/raddosechart.pdf 1 full body CAT scan is about the same as 220 hours of flying (10 long haul flights) 1 Thyroid scan about the same as 28 hours of flying (just over 1 long haul flight) There's lots of sources of radiation, not only that but studies have started to show that constant low level exposure to radiation may in fact reduce you susceptibility to cancer.

    19. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by protein+folder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      More importantly, since they've shown that they can apply this technique (it's not really specified, but I'm assuming it's whole genome sequencing) and applied it to one patient, there's nothing stopping them (except money) from applying this to other patients with the same condition. Maybe a different patient has 25,000 mutations, maybe another has 27,000, etc. Chances are these mutations are not all going to be affecting the same sequence positions in all the different patients. If they can find mutations that are more common than others or genes that are mutated more often than others, then they can perhaps discover new genes which, when mutated drive the development and progression of the tumor. If you can discover which genes are important you can perhaps design treatments for that.

      That said, the title ought to be more like: "Scientists crack 'Entire Genetic Code' of one melanoma patient's tumor and one lung cancer patient's tumor. This is definitely a very impressive achievement in its own right, and the technology that has made this possible is pretty amazing, but it's a bit premature to say "we've cracked the genetic code of cancer" full stop.

      --
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    20. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does it mean that melanoma has 30,000 errors in the DNA?

      It's a DNA BSOD, the reason why your veins are blue.

    21. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by DebateG · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So I work in biological sciences, and I have the special privilege of having the guy who sequenced the first cancer genome working down the hall from me (he's also my thesis committee).

      There is now technology to sequence entire genomes very quickly using massive parallel sequencing. Ideally, if you were sequencing a tumor from a single person, you would get tissue from the tumor and also from the non-tumor (usually skin) and sequence them at the same time. Then you compare the two to distinguish what is simply variation in each person's genetics and what is acquired by the tumor. In my opinion, that's the best way to do things and probably the most informative because you're looking a tumor in a real person that is subject to all the selective evolutionary pressures that occur in people.

      These groups didn't take that approach for reasons unclear to me. Instead, they sequenced cancer cell lines. If you cut out a person's tumor and stick it in a test tube with various growth factors, it will almost certainly die within a week or so. However, you occasionally get some cells that can grow in this situation because they've acquired some mutation that lets them grow in tissue culture. You then expand and passage these cells until they grow rapidly in culture. The problem here is that you're no longer dealing with a normal human tumor; you're selecting for tumor cells that grow in the artificial tissue culture environment. The second problem is that you're not sure what to compare the tumor sequence with. Due to privacy concerns, you almost never know who actually gave the tumor that was made into a cell line (as an aside, look up the HeLa cell line and its sordid history) so you have to compare to the human genome project. The problem here is that there are differences between people and you can't tell whether the "mutation" you see is just a normal variation or actually something in the tumor.

      These are the important limitations you have to consider when evaluating these papers.

      Now, on to your question. They have 30,000 changes in the DNA compared to their reference "normal" genome. Nearly all of those are in "junk" DNA: as far as we know, they don't code any genes or anything else that regulates genes. Of the ones that are in interesting regions, the vast majority of them are called synonymous mutations which means the DNA is changed but due to the way it is interpreted, the protein that it makes is identical (to use a computer analogy, imagine that an the opcode for JMP was changed from 01 to 02 but both 01 and 02 are translated by the computer as JMP).

      Now, a certain number of mutations aren't like that. They either lead to truncated proteins, alter the amino acid sequence of proteins, alter mRNA splicing, etc. There are also other genetic changes such as duplications where the gene sequence is unchanged but may be copied several times to increase the gene dose. These are really the interesting things because they alter protein function or gene dose. From a brief reading, it looks like there are around 100 of these.

      Now, it's really difficult to tell whether these mutations are really relevant to cancer progression. Some of them might just happen due to tumors just mutating really fast and not really affect the cancer progression one way or another; they are so called "passenger" mutations that just come along for the ride. You can introduce these mutations into cells in lab to see if they do anything, but the real test is to sequence a bunch of human cancers and see if certain mutations are recurrent. This work is currently underway and will prove very informative about how genetically heterogeneous tumors really are.

      So, in short, there are about 100 haystacks. Further sequencing of other tumors will show if these are relevant to cancer in general. In my personal opinion, I think that further sequencing will identify very few common mutations and everyone's cancer will be essentially unique in the mutations it acquires. That will force us to completely rethink how we view cancer on a broader scale as not a single disease but a collection of highly related diseases that need to be treated individually.

    22. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by chooks · · Score: 1

      ...and the rapid drop off of magnetic field strength currently make it impractical for use on a torso, as opposed to a head or a limb

      Good post about CTs, however your statement about MRI being impractical for the torso is not correct. Torso MRI studies are done all the time - in particular to evaluate the spinal cord and vertebral column. Now fitting obese people into your standard MRI machine -- THAT'S impractical.

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    23. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you need an introduction to our good buddy "Very Large Numbers". Unfortunately, while it is easy to write a very large number, it is hard to convey a real affective appreciation of what large means. People kind of glaze out, and anything with more than a dozen zeroes starts to look pretty much the same.

      It is, indeed, extraordinarily unlikely that a given high-energy photon striking a cell will cause it to become cancerous. However, very long odds add up quickly when you consider the number of sufficiently high-energy photons your skin will encounter over years of sun exposure(and, even so, it isn't as though skin cancers affect 100% of the population).

    24. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      There is now technology to sequence entire genomes very quickly using massive parallel sequencing.

      How's that on the cheap/fast/good criteria? Is it feasible to sequence individual, non-millionaire, patients yet?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    25. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Now fitting obese people into your standard MRI machine -- THAT'S impractical.

      Shrink wrap? :-)

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    26. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 5000 Purine base are lost daily from the DNA in each human cell because the body's normal heat breaks their linkages. Thousands of nucleotides in each cell are also damaged each day by free radicals created in the normal process of metabolism, which results from routine eating and breathing. Our bodies continuously repair this damage with few mutations. The common cancers (such as skin and lung) are caused by fairly specific mutations at specific places in the DNA which the repair mechanisms tend to "miss". The task for the scientists will be finding the few mutations within those tens of thousands that are actually responsible for the cancerous behavior.

      Daniel

    27. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 2, Informative

      It costs on the order of $10k to sequence a single genome. But you wouldn't do it for every cancer patient. Instead, you'd do it for a couple hundred cancer patients, and study the results. You'd hope to find a few dozen common mutations which indicate which treatment to use. Checking a cancer for a few dozen known marker genes is considerably easier than sequencing an entire genome.

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    28. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I'm gonna need a car analogy for this...

    29. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by RDW · · Score: 1

      'The problem here is that you're no longer dealing with a normal human tumor; you're selecting for tumor cells that grow in the artificial tissue culture environment.'

      That's a good point. Both studies also used cell lines derived from metastases rather than the primary tumour, so we're already potentially dealing with a selected (though interesting) subclone even before the cells hit the culture dish. Not sure why they chose cell lines for the pilot study - perhaps because these lines were already well analysed by other methods, or because they could be confident that they were sequencing a pure population of tumour cells, or just to ensure they had lots of material to work with. In the lung cancer paper, it's mentioned that primary tumours of this subtype are rarely removed surgically, so it may be hard to get hold of good quality material.

      'The second problem is that you're not sure what to compare the tumor sequence with. Due to privacy concerns, you almost never know who actually gave the tumor that was made into a cell line (as an aside, look up the HeLa cell line and its sordid history) so you have to compare to the human genome project. The problem here is that there are differences between people and you can't tell whether the "mutation" you see is just a normal variation or actually something in the tumor'

      Both studies took account of this by sequencing normal DNA from the same donor, so they must have obtained appropriate samples and consent. For the reasons you mention, this is really the only sensible way to proceed at this point (lots of previously unknown polymorphisms are turning up in each new normal genome that's sequenced, so it would be hard to pick out tumour-specific changes without a matched normal reference).

    30. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by dominious · · Score: 1

      Let's see. I have been smoking for the last ~7 years. If i smoked on average 6 cigarettes per day that gives : 365*6*7 = 15330 cigarettes / 15 = 1022 mutated genes so far.

      So in about 205 years I will reach 30,000 mutated genes. OMG!! Im gonna die!

    31. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by DebateG · · Score: 1

      Cheap: it used to cost millions of dollars to sequence a genome but new technologies are greatly driving down the price. The sequencing guru I mentioned above predicts it will cost about $10,000 some time in the next 10 years Fast: it probably will take a week to sequence. However, the analysis tools are very complicated and will probably take much longer Good: as far as I can tell, this technology is pretty accurate. A good run will sequence every piece of DNA 20 times so sequencing errors tend to get washed out.

    32. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Let's see. I have been smoking for the last ~7 years.

      If i smoked on average 6 cigarettes per day that gives : 365*6*7 = 15330 cigarettes

      At an average cost of a quarter per cigarette, you sucked over $3800 into your lungs. How much health insurance could that have paid for?

      An aside: I heard a health-care worker say "Since you have to show your proof of car insurance when you get pulled over by the police, you should also have to show your proof of health insurance when you buy beer and cigarettes".

      There are plenty of downsides to this approach, but my anecdotal evidence tells me that this would cut down on public health-care costs, because everyone I know that has no health insurance is a heavy smoker and/or drinker. One thing would have to go - either their consumption (well, it'd be harder to purchase, but not harder to consume), or their dependence on the public assistance - both of which would likely lower taxpayer costs.

    33. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering how much car exhaust must be inhaled for the same effect. For that matter how much LA air must be inhaled, surely a lung full would be equal or greater than ten cigarettes.

    34. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Again · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of downsides to this approach, but my anecdotal evidence tells me that this would cut down on public health-care costs, because everyone I know that has no health insurance is a heavy smoker and/or drinker. One thing would have to go - either their consumption (well, it'd be harder to purchase, but not harder to consume), or their dependence on the public assistance - both of which would likely lower taxpayer costs.

      You also might want to factor in the amount of tax that the government charges on cigarettes. At least in Canada here, the tax on cigarettes is very high. I doubt that it is high enough though to recuperate the public health care costs and a quick trip to Google didn't give me any answers..

    35. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by atisss · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of downsides to this approach, but my anecdotal evidence tells me that this would cut down on public health-care costs, because everyone I know that has no health insurance is a heavy smoker and/or drinker. One thing would have to go - either their consumption (well, it'd be harder to purchase, but not harder to consume), or their dependence on the public assistance - both of which would likely lower taxpayer costs.

      Well, when buying alcohol and cigarettes you're already paying additional tax that's supposed to go to healthcare system.. so if you smoke and drink more - you should get better healthcare.

      When I'll get a cancer I should be able to go to government healthcare and show them 2000 packs of cigarettes, saying that I already paid 5000$ in taxes (tax is actually most part of the price) and demanding cure for that price.. actually it should be even more because not every smoker gets cancer, so it's like insurance..

    36. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's hard to guess from your post what country you are in, but here in the U.S., cigarette and alcohol tax revenues do not get earmarked for health-care. Taxes flow into the general fund, and are spent based on the budget.

      Justifications for increased taxes often include things like "to pay for the shortfall of healthcare spending", in the same way that Lottery laws are often justified by "paying for education". But there is NO direct link from taxes collected to projects funded, except when certain government bonds are issued.

      This is Government 101. Pretend that there's a link, so that people side with your increased tax, and pass the bill. Then spend them money any way you want.

      And if you think that the $5000 in tax (uplifted even by 200x) could afford to pay for the cure for cancer that you think you are funding, I suggest you check to see what you are smoking!

    37. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      That said, the title ought to be more like: "Scientists crack 'Entire Genetic Code' of one melanoma patient's tumor and one lung cancer patient's tumor. This is definitely a very impressive achievement in its own right, and the technology that has made this possible is pretty amazing, but it's a bit premature to say "we've cracked the genetic code of cancer" full stop.

      The current state of science journalism seems to have swung more toward grabbing viewers than conveying accurate information. I think this is just another example of that.

    38. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, I suppose calling them "errors" begs the question. You can't call something an error unless there is a "correct " value you can point to.

      However, it's probable that most sets of thirty thousand random mutations generate something other than cancer; probably lots of non-viable genomes. From the cancer genome's point of view what we call thirty thousand "errors" amounts to things going amazingly, fortuitously "right".

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    39. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by LeadSongDog · · Score: 1

      it's a bit premature to say "we've cracked the genetic code of cancer" full stop.

      You were looking for the "We've cracked the full genetic code of every cancerous tumour in all species" press release. I think that one's on page D35, next to the "Help Wanted-Media Relations" column.

      --
      Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
    40. Re:Sadly, the article makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yours is the clearest response yet. Thank You! Try reading "walkking Between Walls" by Greg Bradden! its about filling out the DNA mapping. Creative and spiritual aspects considered into scheme of things as well! BRJP 12 18 2009

  4. Patent? by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if they will patent this so everyone who develops a treatment using techniques discovered here must cough up a royalty?
     
    Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

    --
    If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    1. Re:Patent? by speedingant · · Score: 2, Funny

      If it's lung cancer, they'll be coughing up more than just a royalty. Badom-pish!

    2. Re:Patent? by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

      That's just it, though - the patent is granted for the isolation, refinement, or modification of the gene. The issue is what is considered 'naturally occurring.' Chemical composition patents are granted based on the assumption that the composition isn't just sitting around and easy to get at.

      The policy question is whether just protecting the process used to isolate something is enough, rather than protecting the actual thing itself.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    3. Re:Patent? by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

      I've read interviews with multiple government and legal officials, whose basic point seems to be that patents on genes are a "necessary evil", because research into genomics is really, really, really expensive, and without patents + licensing fees giving biotech firms some way to recover some of their investment now (as opposed to ten years down, when drugs based on their discoveries could conceivably come to market), no businessperson would even think of throwing his money at that kind of research. According to them, without patents, there would be no research and progress in this field whatsoever.

      I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that, but that's the way it is.

      --
      Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    4. Re:Patent? by Tangentc · · Score: 1

      It's mainly in case you ever want to sue any girl you knock up for patent infringement.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
    5. Re:Patent? by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they will patent this so everyone who develops a treatment using techniques discovered here must cough up a royalty?

      Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

      The genes aren't patentable. The methods they developed probably are. Patents are there to provide incentive for the research to take place at all. There may be some problems on how long patents last and process issues, but fundamentally they are supposed to provide incentive to invest in research and science.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    6. Re:Patent? by joocemann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wonder if they will patent this so everyone who develops a treatment using techniques discovered here must cough up a royalty?

      Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

      Both are good questions. And to the latter, I would say it is likely because most of our peers, politicians, and people involved in everything we do in life, do not understand these specific things to any degree to which they can make better INFORMED decisions about them. Most people don't understand what is going on in most sciences, but develop opinions on it anyway; in turn, we shape our cultures and politics in a somewhat similar form (yes, the corps will influence politics heavily with their lobbying/influence, no need to reply to me with that obvious fact). Education, or lack of in this case, is what is key here. The more people know, the better decisions they can make. In even a quick look at so many things that have value/importance to our lives, one can easily discern the impact of the layman's assumption on the field as a whole.

    7. Re:Patent? by ImOnlySleeping · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ICGC's policies and guidelines are very specific, http://icgc.org/icgc_document/policies_and_guidelines/ "The objective of ICGC policy regarding intellectual property (IP) policy is to maximize public benefit from data produced by the Consortium. It is the view of the ICGC members that this goal is achieved if the data remain publicly accessible without any restrictions."

      --
      Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
    8. Re:Patent? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This sort of thing should probably be done by academia or government then. Progress for the greater good doesn't have to be commercially driven.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    9. Re:Patent? by tg123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why are patents allowed on naturally occurring phenomena like genes anyway?

      .......no businessperson would even think of throwing his money at that kind of research. According to them, without patents, there would be no research and progress in this field whatsoever.
      I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that, but that's the way it is.

      The reality is business people / drug companies do not invest in drug research period.

      Business investment tends to goes into marketing the drug its the university's and research institutes that do the drug research.

      http://www.uab.edu/reynolds/MajMedFigs/Index.htm

    10. Re:Patent? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Or, you could leave it up to the private sector with a few caveats. For one, once a patent holding corporation recoups the investment costs (plus a profit margin), the patent is rendered null and void.

      Basically, give the private sector enough incentives to allow capitalism to fulfill its primary role while at the same time not hinder the common good of everyone else.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    11. Re:Patent? by khallow · · Score: 1

      I don't buy the claim that gene patents are necessary, especially since they won't be honored by a number of competitors. There's a lot of money here for private firms to get interested. That seems good enough to me.

    12. Re:Patent? by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      The problem is that a lot of the research within academia and government is being done for corporations or by corporations.
      Did you see that little commercial with the man with the funny ? suit saying there's free government money.
      Well I can tell you most of it goes to corporations or companies where they do the research.
      The thing about the research is that the company doesn't have to divulge everything they found to receive the money.
      All they have to do is show that they tried. In the mean time they may have found out if they tweak things a little bit then they get the results they want. They don't have to tell anyone. They can submit their papers and then later on say surprise we found a nifty twist that makes it work, by the way we are patenting it.
      So commercialism is dictating where science progresses.
      Like it or not this is the direction we are headed until grants and funding are given to academia to support this kind of research. Usually academia can't afford the equipment and maintenance cost associated with running experiments with the latest technology.

    13. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If it's lung cancer, they'll be coughing up more than just a royalty. Badom-pish!

      I have lung cancer, you insensitive clod!!

      (But hey, at least I don't have Alzheimer's!)

    14. Re:Patent? by westlake · · Score: 1

      This sort of thing should probably be done by academia or government then. Progress for the greater good doesn't have to be commercially driven.

      But it does have to be adequately funded.

      Here is an example of a small scale project that has the potential to reap significant benefits. But it still costs $5 million - and there are hundreds - and more likely thousands - of projects no less deserving.

      The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has awarded a $5 million research grant to a Hebrew University of Jerusalem biologist to find ways to combat visceral leishmanisis, a parasitic disease that affects 500,000 annually and, if left untreated - by 30 days of intramuscular injections - kills 95 percent of its victims.

      Co-infection with HIV makes treatment much more complex. Because the immune system is suppressed in HIV-positive patients, Kala-azar relapses are common, and patients have to be treated multiple times. Given the difficulties of treating large populations in remote areas and the bleak prospects for patients infected by both diseases, efforts must be made to protect people living in HIV/AIDS-endemic areas from contracting Kala-aza HU researcher granted $5m. from Gates Foundation to battle parasitic disease

      The charitable impulse is not unlimited. The university has to strike a balance between research and teaching. The government needs a broad political consensus to move decisively in any direction.

      There is something to be said for the guy who is in it for the money.

      Someone who can move quickly but still think long-term and can take very big risks without flinching.

    15. Re:Patent? by FreakyGreenLeaky · · Score: 1

      Yes, academia and government are really known for attracting the best talent. Commercially driven progress will always be more rapid (goodly or badly).

    16. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This research has been largely funded by the Wellcome Trust (NOT to be confused with Wellcome of Glaxo-Wellcome) who are ademently aposed to patents on any form of genetic information. This is the main reason that they funded the Human Genome Project through the Sanger Institute.

      Any research undertaken under the Trust's funding must be put into the public domain.

    17. Re:Patent? by Hian+Bosu · · Score: 1

      No they will not patent this. The work was done by the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute that is funded (unsurprisingly) by the Wellcome Trust which is a big medical research charity. The Sanger Institute releases all of its research into the public domain.

    18. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...that patents on genes are a "necessary evil", because research into genomics is really, really, really expensive...

      But it's not expensive anymore!. The price of sequencing is dropping like you won't believe it, and even if the computational requirements are high, I suspect that's not such a big barrier to entry with the recent ubiquity of cloud computing. Try google gene sequencing price, and see what you get. What other costs are there, apart from researchers? Did I miss something?

      I fear that by the time the new state of things is realized, one or two companies with good automated sequencing-analysis-patenting scripts will have locked up the market.

    19. Re:Patent? by michaelhood · · Score: 1

      Or, you could leave it up to the private sector with a few caveats. For one, once a patent holding corporation recoups the investment costs (plus a profit margin), the patent is rendered null and void.

      Aside from Hollywood accounting, mentioned by a sibling to my reply, there are other issues with that.

      For one, only a tiny fraction of the research and subsequent patents done by a company pay off. This means they have to earn enough on the winners to cover all of their losers.

    20. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The raw data and the results are all as open source asap providing the sequence data is non identifiable.

      Some groups do do defensive patenting but this data will be as freely available as possible

    21. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know, but the outlook is good, the Wellcome trust is a not-for-profit organisation, and was instrumental in protecting the human genome project against takeover by (American) commercial interests.

    22. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great. Don't hesitate to wire them some money.

    23. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She has a pretty strong case that she licensed their use in return for a one time service.

    24. Re:Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should, but it won't be. I work in research. The current political climate seems to think "the greater good" will emerge by magic out of people trying to fuck each other over. In this case, government has artificially created an arena in which to do this by allowing genes to be patented, because the obvious solution -- funding basic research -- goes against the Objectivist ideology.

  5. Better yet by MrEricSir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe we can make cigarettes that don't cause cancer.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Better yet by NoYob · · Score: 1

      Yeah but, I can't stand the stink and they cause many other problems - high blood pressure and heart disease for examples. Also, smoking ages you faster.

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    2. Re:Better yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh, it bothers you so other people shouldn't do it?

      Fat people bother me. No more mcdonalds for you, fatso.

    3. Re:Better yet by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      Like this?*

      * (possibly perhaps maybe)

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    4. Re:Better yet by NoYob · · Score: 1, Funny
      Oh yeah - smoker!

      While you our outside, freezing in the rain smoking your cigarette, I'm nice and warm, in front of my computer, enjoying myself, looking DOWN on you for being sooo weak eating my chessburger - inside!

      So there!

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    5. Re:Better yet by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty much anything that involves inhaling delicious incomplete-combustion products is bound to be a bad plan(it doesn't get the anti-drug crusaders upset, so nobody really cares; but chronic inhalation of the smoke from nasty little heating/cooking fires in the unventilated shacks of the developing world causes enormous morbidity and mortality). Outside the chem101 and/or very carefully tweaked laboratory world of perfect hydrocarbon combustion into carbon dioxide and water vapor, breathing combustion products is pretty much always a bad plan.

      On the plus side, if you just want to deliver nicotine, we have plenty of ways to do that, in pretty much any quantity and release curve you fancy, with health risks no greater than those imposed by the nicotine directly.

    6. Re:Better yet by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, if you just want to deliver nicotine, we have plenty of ways to do that, in pretty much any quantity and release curve you fancy, with health risks no greater than those imposed by the nicotine directly.

      Nicotine is only a small part of the addiction, though. The crinkle of the wrapper, the smell of the pack, the logo on the carton, the mouth feel of the cigarette, the paling around with smoke buddies, and, of course, smoking, are all significant. Straight nicotine probably isn't enjoyable enough to build an industry.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:Better yet by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your attitude makes me sick, you pansy.

      Yeah, we smokers are outside in the rain and snow and sleet and cold because we're dedicated to our habit! We could quit smoking and be nice and warm with the rest of you pansies, but we're tougher than that!

      If they made you pansy bastards go outside to eat your cheeseburgers, you'd probably quit eating cheeseburgers. You're all just poseur addicts. You have no dedication.

      Yeah, sit inside and eat your cheeseburger, you whiny poseur addict. We smokers will be outside in the cold, earning respect from all the real addicts.

    8. Re:Better yet by adamchou · · Score: 1

      That'd be interesting but not that all helpful when the #1 killer of smokers is heart disease, not long cancer. In other words, most smokers won't live long enough to get lung cancer.

    9. Re:Better yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But will they make you look cool?

  6. Cold turkey by capebretonsux · · Score: 1

    Well I just quit.

    (Actually, I've been smoking less and less this week, haven't - and won't - buy a new pack once this last one's gone. With this news, the 1 in 15 smokes stat is a real motivator!)

    1. Re:Cold turkey by incognito84 · · Score: 1

      The best way to quit permanently would be to leave Cape Breton. Its either the cigarettes or the tar ponds!

    2. Re:Cold turkey by schon · · Score: 5, Funny

      the 1 in 15 smokes stat is a real motivator!

      Maybe, but if you only smoke the other 14, you should be OK.

      Unless the 15th one isn't labeled, then it's harder.
       
      /me ducks

    3. Re:Cold turkey by capebretonsux · · Score: 2, Funny

      Been Cape-Breton-Free for years now, on the other side of the country enjoying the oh-so-lovely -28C we've had the past couple of days. Take it from me, it's a truly 'unique' sensation to have snot freeze into icicles as it's comes out of your nose...

    4. Re:Cold turkey by capebretonsux · · Score: 1

      Unless the 15th one isn't labeled, then it's harder.

      This being Canada, of course the 15th (or so) one isn't labelled. But of course, it ain't tobacco either!

    5. Re:Cold turkey by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Wuss!
       
      It was -51 here a couple of days ago. Right now it's a balmy -22 and I have had several people tell me how warm it is today. (Really.)

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    6. Re:Cold turkey by sznupi · · Score: 1

      "...once this last one's gone"? You haven't quit yet ;p

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    7. Re:Cold turkey by ignavus · · Score: 1

      the 1 in 15 smokes stat is a real motivator!

      Maybe, but if you only smoke the other 14, you should be OK.

      Unless the 15th one isn't labeled, then it's harder. /me ducks

      Now there's a business idea: packets of cigarettes with every fifteenth cigarette labelled for your cancer-free pleasure. I am sure the tobacco industry will love it.

      Next up, we will just sell packets of cigarettes with all the fifteenth ones removed.

      And the good news is: I won't even patent this business method! I am giving it away.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
  7. This is good news. by ZERO1ZERO · · Score: 1
    I for one welcome our cure for cancer finding overlords.

    Both my parents died from it and I suspect I probably will too. Or maybe not if they can find a cure.

  8. Two preventable cancers by Meshach · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Interestingly the article seems to only reference "preventable" cancers:

    The scientists found the DNA code for a skin cancer called melanoma contained more than 30,000 errors almost entirely caused by too much sun exposure. The lung cancer DNA code had more than 23,000 errors largely triggered by cigarette smoke exposure.

    Hopefully this will lead to treatments for other cancers as well.

    --
    "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
    Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:Two preventable cancers by RDW · · Score: 2, Informative

      They started off with a couple of common cancers, but the plan is to do many more:

      http://www.sanger.ac.uk/about/press/2008/080429.html

      'The ICGC will identify a list of approximately 50 cancer types and subtypes that are of clinical significance around the globe, aiming to study cancers of all major organs, including breast, ovary, prostate, lung and blood cancers...All the data generated will be made rapidly and freely available to the global research community. '

    2. Re:Two preventable cancers by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Though it would seem more tactful to go first with cancers that are also common, but as far as we can tell essentially "random", with no good working tips @prevention.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:Two preventable cancers by The+Bean · · Score: 1

      I do not see the difference between these cancers and any others. There is no preventable and unpreventable class system.

      Whether the mutations occurred as a result of cigarette smoke, sunlight, red meat, physical damage (think asbestos) or just some other chance event, cancer is cancer is cancer for the most part.

      Maybe they can build

  9. Yea, stop smoking tobacco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    So, since it's cigarette smoke that's the problem... Everyone switch to pot?

    1. Re:Yea, stop smoking tobacco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think tobacco is the problem, but rather all the other crap they put is cigarettes. Odds are if everyone switched to pot, they'd pull the same crap to draw in more customers and then you'd have a bunch of high people with cancer.

  10. Comparison by Jkasd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems that they should do this with cancer cells from several different patients and compare them to find out which mutations actually trigger the cancer.

    1. Re:Comparison by RDW · · Score: 1

      'It seems that they should do this with cancer cells from several different patients and compare them to find out which mutations actually trigger the cancer.'

      Believe it or not, they have thought of this! An international consortium has been set up to use exactly this technology on a really large scale. See e.g.:

      http://www.sanger.ac.uk/about/press/2008/080429.html

      'Each ICGC member will conduct a comprehensive, high-resolution analysis of the full range of genomic changes in at least one specific type or subtype of cancer, with studies built around common standards of data collection and analysis. Each project will each require cancer specimens from 500 patients and have an estimated cost of US$20 million.'

    2. Re:Comparison by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

      I'd bet comparing them is NP-Complete and even W[1] Hard or W[2] Hard (looks like an instance of Max-Clique or Dominating-Set)

      --
      The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  11. How real is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do these guys promise to come back in 2 years and report on their progress?

    1. Re:How real is this? by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      I think they are waiting for journalists to make a comprehension breakthrough. I mean if researchers actually managed to cure cancer one day what would be the headline?

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    2. Re:How real is this? by Bluesman · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Obama Presides Over Cancer Cure."

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    3. Re:How real is this? by amirulbahr · · Score: 2, Informative
      Not redundant. Seriously, think before you mod. You may not like the post but it's definitely not redundant as no one else has made the same comment.

      Try to mod good posts up, rather than look for ones you disagree with and mod down. If you must, then a -1 Flamebait or Overrated would be more appropriate here.

    4. Re:How real is this? by Aanalin · · Score: 3, Funny

      FOX News : Obama's healthcare: Rationing of long care for cancer patient! Oncologist jobless!

    5. Re:How real is this? by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2, Funny

      CBS News: Democrats and Republicans join forces to save jobs; Oncologists seek ban of certain cancer treatments. More at 5.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    6. Re:How real is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's very dangerous for health.
      http://www.coolpennystocks.com/

  12. //HACK ..? by Tei · · Score: 1

    Hacking would be to add or change something on that code on a original but cheap way to produce a practical result. Chop chop.. hack hack.

    The article sounds more like deassembling the code. but IANGE.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  13. Misleading... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is a terrible summary. There is no *single* cancer genome. They sequenced the genome of one cancer biopsy. There are probably as many different cancer "codes" (also a horribly misleading term) as there are tumors in the world.

    Cancer is not a single disease, it is a phenomenon, like evolution. This would be like sequencing the genome of two organisms and claiming to've "cracked the evolution code".

  14. Fuck yea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

  15. So will this mean? by tlpintpe · · Score: 0

    Will this change how the tobacco companies are viewed?

  16. The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flawed by WhiskerBiscuit · · Score: 5, Informative
    Cancer cells start accumulating mutations as a consequence of rapid cell division and poor quality control on DNA replication; they also have problems keeping their chromosomes intact. This is called "genomic instability" and it is a hallmark of cancer.

    The critical point here is that most of these mutations are acquired *after* the cancer gets going, regardless of whether the mutagen in question is still being administered.

    Therefore, it's not proper to infer a linear relationship between the dose of mutagen and the number of mutations.

    Beyond that, the numbers involved in that extrapolation seem to have been pulled out of thin air, and I question whether they knew the smoking history of the individual who donated the material that created that cell line. (The lung cancer in question had 30,000 mutations, so by their logic the smoker must have smoked 345,000 cigarettes, or 17,250 packs of 20. That's a pack a day for 47 years, which is admittedly within the bounds of possibility, but still an awful lot of smoking.)

    Whatever. Smoking is still awful for you, but this kind of nonsensical extrapolation without regard to detail is terribly annoying.

  17. Thank goodness for the free market! by foqn1bo · · Score: 1

    It's exhilarating to see such visceral confirmation of the superior efficiencies of free market capitalism. If the scientists working for this cancer research corporation didn't have the profit motive behind them, who knows how long it would have taken for them to reach this point in their research, that is, if the project had even gotten off the ground at all!

    1. Re:Thank goodness for the free market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you are sarcastic: google wellcome trust
      The Wellcome Trust
      The Wellcome Trust is the largest charity in the UK. We fund innovative biomedical research, in the UK and internationally, spending over £600 million each ...

    2. Re:Thank goodness for the free market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Now we just need to get the political groups who favor laissez-faire to stop firing scientists as soon as they get into office.

    3. Re:Thank goodness for the free market! by NoYob · · Score: 1

      And the patent system that will allow them to have a monopoly so that they'll make (hopefully) plenty of money as incentive and financing to keep researching for other things, show others that they can make money by helping people, the best and brightest will see that they don't have to go into law or medicine or finance to make it "big" or just make enough to pay off their student loans - which will be very important in the near future as college tuition continues its double digit inflation.

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    4. Re:Thank goodness for the free market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forget the massive number of medical breakthroughs that have come from the labs of for-profit drug companies. Not all medical research is done this way. Much is done through private foundations and government grant research. They can all co-exist.

  18. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is 40-a-day for 25 years in a sufferer of lung cancer that much of a surprise?

  19. In other news... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cancer will be issuing a DMCA take-down notice and sue the pants off the scientists for cracking its code.

    1. Re:In other news... by fotoguzzi · · Score: 1

      Cancer will be issuing a DMCA take-down notice and sue the pants off the scientists for cracking its code.
      This might be a useful way for people to (re)gain control their own DNA.

      --
      Their they're doing there hair.
  20. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

    I agree. Most confusing summary.

    Are they saying that all 30,000 mutations are the DIRECT result of exposure to sunlight, or are they saying an initial mutation caused by sunlight exposure was then multiplied by cell division/replication?

    If it was the first case, how did they determine the cause of each mutation? If it was the second case, the question still remains--How did they determine the cause of ANY of these mutations?

    "Whatever. Smoking is still awful for you, but this kind of nonsensical extrapolation without regard to detail is terribly annoying."

    Yes, terribly annoying, but apparently it gets them grant money.

  21. Does this mean by JO_DIE_THE_STAR_F*** · · Score: 2, Funny

    you can smoke 344,999 cigarettes and not get cancer but if you smoke just one more BAM! CANCER!
    I know it doesn't but the article kinda hints at that.
    Wouldn't it be great though if it was that precise.
    15 cigs = 1 DNA error
    23,000 errrors = CANCER
    15 Cigs X 23,000 = 345,000 cigs
    345,000 Cigs = Cancer
    Average life span ~67 years
    If you start smoking at 18 that's ~17,897 days till your dead anyway
    So you can have 19 Cigarettes a day.
    Hey cigarette companies I think I have a new marketing campaign for you. You just need to start selling packs of smokes with 19 Cigs in each.

    1. Re:Does this mean by dominious · · Score: 1

      wow, I've always been buying 20 packs and im thinking maybe the cigarette companies knew what you say from long ago. Conspiracy theorists FTW!

  22. Might be okay, might not. by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, since it's cigarette smoke that's the problem... Everyone switch to pot?

    I know you're joking, but there's no conclusive evidence that nicotine itself causes cancer. It's particulate matter and other smoke residues that seem to drive lung cancer, and we know that there are just as many carcinogens in pot smoke as tobacco smoke.

    Weirdly, however, large studies seem to indicate that there isn't an increased cancer risk from heavy pot smoking. Other research suggests that THC reduced lung cancer growth. However, pot smokers are at elevated risk for other lung diseases that come purely from breathing hot smoke all the time.

    So, if you're going to switch from tobacco to marijuana, consider going with methods other than smoking. You may not get cancer from smoking, but it's still not good for you, and there are much safer ways to get high. (They are also ways that do not force other people in your presence to participate through second-hand smoke, which will bother others regardless of the long-term health risks or lack thereof.)

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Lotana · · Score: 1

      there's no conclusive evidence that nicotine itself causes cancer

      I always thought that the nicotine is completely harmless. You can chew the nicotine gum for every second of your life and you will probably be fine.

      It is the tar from the cigarette smoke that is the culprit. All those smoke particles accumulating in your lungs is probably not a very healthy thing. Only reason why everyone is so anti-nicotine is that it makes you want to get more smoke into yourself.

      Could be wrong though. Just word of mouth stuff.

    2. Re:Might be okay, might not. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      I know you're joking, but there's no conclusive evidence that nicotine itself causes cancer. It's particulate matter and other smoke residues that seem to drive lung cancer, and we know that there are just as many carcinogens in pot smoke as tobacco smoke.

      Weirdly, however, large studies seem to indicate that there isn't an increased cancer risk from heavy pot smoking.

      Marijuana: pick the buds, dry them, grind it up, then smoke
      Cigarette: pick the leaves, dry them, add hundreds of chemicals, grind it up, then smoke

      I thought it was well understood that cancer is mostly caused by the incredible amount of additives that get put into cigarettes. I wonder if putting the chemical frankenstein that is cigarette tobacco into a vaporizer would cause less damage than smoking normally does.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      This is why car drivers that complain about cigarette smokers annoy me. The will spew all sorts of particulate matter and chemicals into the air and then whine when a cigarette smokers do it. Yes, I drive, and no I don't smoke, but I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim that my air pollution is better than their air pollution.

    4. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is why car drivers that complain about cigarette smokers annoy me. The will spew all sorts of particulate matter and chemicals into the air and then whine when a cigarette smokers do it. Yes, I drive, and no I don't smoke, but I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim that my air pollution is better than their air pollution.

      It wouldn't necessarily be hypocrisy to claim that.

      1) Cigarette smoke contains 10x more particulate matter than engine exhaust. There's a reason we have catalytic converters.
      2) Cars don't typically blow smoke at face level or hang around doors (or indoors in more permissive places).

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    5. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's actually not well understood, or at least not well-proven, exactly what it is in cigarettes that causes cancer. Hilariously, everyone I know who smokes weed thinks there's a clear case to be made that weed is "better" because it doesn't have "chemicals". Of course, it's made ENTIRELY of chemicals, just like everything else.

      I read a few years ago that people who drink hot coffee have a higher incidence of throat cancer. Heat is a big factor here, and certain oxidized compounds are likely involved too, but it's not entirely obvious which ones.

    6. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The will spew all sorts of particulate matter and chemicals into the air and then whine when a cigarette smokers do it.

      Drivers don't generally back their cars up next to your face inside an enclosed room and then gun the engine, do they?

      Nor do smokers have catalytic converters.

    7. Re:Might be okay, might not. by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Cars aren't so bad, as other posters pointed out.

      What annoys me are people burning trash in home furnaces. Yes, that might be not a problem at your place, but it is at many, including mine. Formally banning it doesn't seem to do the trick...

      The resulting smoke is choking even for smokers.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    8. Re:Might be okay, might not. by freeweed · · Score: 1

      That actually doesn't make cigarette smoke seem all that bad, to me (for those too lazy to read, it compares one tailpipe to 3 cigarettes, the cigs are 10x worse for particulates).

      If each cigarette is equivalent to about 10 minutes of a car running, and assume the average smoker does 15 cigarettes a day... that's 2.5 hours' worth of tailpipe exhaust. Which is likely about what the average driver drives, easily these days.

      So being in traffic for a couple of hours each day is like being nearly a pack a day smoker. Whoulda thunk?

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    9. Re:Might be okay, might not. by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

      Long-term exposure to nicotine isn't good for you either, kind of like long-term exposure to caffeine. It at least causes heart and stomach problems. But it's much more addictive than caffeine.

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    10. Re:Might be okay, might not. by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Hilariously, everyone I know who smokes weed thinks there's a clear case to be made that weed is "better" because it doesn't have "chemicals".

      You get that with almost everything that's ingested in some way though. I don't know about in the States, but here in the UK "made with 100% natural ingredients" is a fairly common selling point. People seem to forget that hemlock is also 100% natural, as are many other toxic substances...

    11. Re:Might be okay, might not. by MadUndergrad · · Score: 1

      I say: bring on the electric cars. Being near a road doesn't have to be a suffocating, noxious experience.

  23. drivers vs passengers by scapermoya · · Score: 3, Informative

    I just completed an intensive undergraduate course on cancer with a focus on genetics at UC Berkeley. We spent a significant amount of time on cancer genomes, and I have to say this announcement doesn't mean that much unfortunately. Cancers are genetically very unstable, and any given tumor you sequence will have many mutations that are completely unrelated to the cancer's survival and proliferation. they are known as passenger mutations, and need to be separated from the causative 'driver' mutations. sequencing many tumors of the same type and applying statistical analysis has been useful in this area, but considering that there are potentially millions of different combinations of active and inactive genes that lead to tumor formation, this approach has its limitations. this is especially true given that some genes are both tumor suppressors and tumor activators in different contexts (eg the TGF-b pathway). even if you identify a genetic locus as highly associated with a particular cancer, it is hard to go from there to understanding the molecular biology behind that association.

    we have a long way to go before we defeat cancer, and sequencing can only take us so far.

    --
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch.
  24. Population and cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    This pains me to say - a couple of friends of the family have been diagnosed with cancer- one very dear to me and with limited time to live, the other a very decent man and doesn't know his chances yet.

    I can't help but think that cancer is acting as a brake on the population explosion. If we cured cancer tomorrow these people who are dear to me wouldn't suffer, but we'd be even less sustainable and eventually we'd see wide spread poverty and famine. So the question becomes: If we do gather the knowledge we need to cure various forms of cancer so that those dear to us don't suffer, what are we going to do to balance things out and prevent the population from skyrocketing?

    I don't have easy answers. I certainly don't like watching friends and family die, and would like to see a proper cure instead of various poisons in the form of radiation and drugs that take their toll on the person as much as the disease.

    1. Re:Population and cancer by suitifiable · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't help but think that cancer is acting as a brake on the population explosion.

      Umm, no.

      Cancer, in general, happens to people well past the age of reproduction. Which means it has little, if any, effect on population growth rates.

      If there are diseases you'd like to keep around to prevent overpopulation, may I suggest lobbying to return Smallpox to the wild instead? Or just become a pro-AIDS activist, since the latter seems to be doing a good job of cutting into African population growth.

      Seriously, some of you people scare me....

    2. Re:Population and cancer by dikdik · · Score: 1
      It seems to me that any number of debilitating and lethal diseases can be seen this way and that population control should be proactive. If we can cure cancer, it would seem that population control through education would be a far better way to ensure population control without the horrible pain and suffering that the afflicted and their loved ones endure.

      I realize that birth control education/legislation/etc. brings up an entirely new conversation (one I'm not trying to start here) but I'd pretty much support anything that would have kept friends and family from dying a slow, painful death.

    3. Re:Population and cancer by n0tWorthy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nope. There's been a large reduction in cancer deaths due to research and treatment advances (I'm a two time cancer survivor, 1 a stage 4 of the neck) so cancer is having a much smaller reduction on population than it used to. Also, since cancer occurs after the reproductive years in the vast majority of cases there is no breeding it out of the system. If cancer killed people before they reproduced then the genetic causes of cancer would be eliminated pretty quickly.

      You can support your family and get support at the American Cancer Society Cancer Support Network (http://csn.cancer.org/). A lot of people there going through the same things you and your friends are.

      --
      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is facing a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria -
    4. Re:Population and cancer by Lotana · · Score: 1

      Don't worry too much about population explosion.

      It is a mystery to me, but somehow human population is controlling itself. And this is without any war, famine or diseases.

      Look for example at Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_Japan

      There hasn't been any large conflict there ever since World War Two. Haven't heard of any kind of outbreaks or hunger. Yet the childbirth rates are falling.

      Seems like similar is happening in Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_Europe

    5. Re:Population and cancer by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cancer isn't some magical disease that turns up. It's literally coding errors (for the most part). If you want a computer analogy, it's like expecting an hard drive as old as you are not to have any bad sectors - it's possible, but it ain't gonna stay like that forever. And if those errors are in the wrong places - the whole thing becomes a mess that destroys itself. Of course, a lot of the time those errors go unnoticed for decades or even forever if they are in an unimportant part of the code. And there's a certain amount of "error checking and correction" going on in various reproductive processes of the cells that lessens the impact.

      Cancer is, basically, the MTBF of a human. If something else doesn't get you, cancer will eventually catch you up by sheer random statistics - enough time exposed to the sun (not even in a sunny country, or deliberate exposure), or a million and one other factors (which is why *everything* is stated in the news as "causing cancer"), and the cell's DNA "bits" will flip and it'll go crazy and stop all its highly-evolved self-limiting processes until it starts to take over your body. With some people it happens within their first year of life, some people live to 100 and never see it... but live long enough and you'll get cancer.

      You can extend life, you can treat cancer, in theory you can "cure" it (i.e. push its statistical error rate outside the lifespan of a human) but it'll always be there. Try and find someone who's lived past 40/50 and hasn't had either several friends/relatives or themselves have it / die from it... we've all been there. I can name five serious (two fatal) off the top of my head just from blood relations and I'm only 30 - and those are just the ones I know about.

      Cancer isn't a brake on population growth - the genetic factors are rarely subject to natural selection as others have pointed out - it's just the natural lifespan of a human. We didn't have it very much a few thousand years ago because we weren't living long enough for it to have a big effect. In the future, it will always be there even if we "trick" our way around it (there are animals that live longer than us and don't see such a high rate of mutation). Just look at the primary methods of treatment for a condition which sinks billions of pounds of research money - surgically cut it out, poison it or nuke it.

      Pulling some stats from the wiki: Cancer causes 13% of all deaths worldwide and 25% of all deaths in the US. More than 30% of cancer is preventable via avoiding risk factors (which suggests that 70% of it is not preventable at all). It's a statistical function, not a disease, and the more exposure you have to things, the more your chances go up (but, some would argue, the more your quality of life would go down). Nothing brings those chances down below their base rate, though. It can be made more survivable, less painful, less affecting, but you can't "stop" it. Change your lifestyle and you have more effect than researching drugs that few can afford, won't be effective and will have terrible side-effects - the story of all medicine ("Since 1971 the United States has invested over $200 billion on cancer research... Despite this substantial investment, the country has only seen a five percent decrease in the cancer death rate in the last 50 years"). Who here wants to give up alcohol and sex and modern living to live longer? I would guess few. Same as everything else on the planet: Live life, enjoy and if you exercise and take care you'll extend your average lifespan. You could still get cancer tomorrow, though.

      Cancer is what you're left with if you've survived everything else. In the brutal, inhumane terms of statistics, it's not very important in terms of sustaining the planet / population or anything else.

    6. Re:Population and cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope. There's been a large reduction in cancer deaths due to research and treatment advances

      Unfortunately, that's not really true - the overall mortality rate for cancers is roughly the same as it was in 1950, as aresurvival rates for people diagnosed with cancer.

      I would suggest that spending more money on cancer research is unlikely to have a significant impact on survival rates. From the proteins on his surface to the sequence of his DNA, we know the enemy. What we lack is the bullet that can reach him and kill him - essentially the same problem that prevents us from curing AIDS, antibiotic-resistant bacteria, and many genetic diseases. Now that gene therapy has proven to be a dud, there's no incremental advancement on the horizon that could lead to a large increase in cancer survival rates. Funding is unlikely to help because the advisory boards making the money decisions prioritize incremental research deemed most likely to succeed over more ambitious experiments. The few major breakthroughs in treating specialized forms of cancer have mostly come from lone wolves who secured funding from private benefactors.

      No one can argue against funding cancer research while so much of our economic output is earmarked for empire building or making really great sitcoms. But I do not believe that additional funding for cancer research is likely to produce a large increase survival rates.

    7. Re:Population and cancer by SteveWoz · · Score: 1

      Many well intentioned people contribute millions of dollars to increase the rate of death from cancer. They donate to heart research. If you don't die of a cardiac problem, you're more likely to die from cancer. Or you can give money for cancer research and increase the rate of death from cardiac arrest. The total death rate is constant.

      --
      OK a new size TV
    8. Re:Population and cancer by backslashdot · · Score: 1

      Congrats on that. How did you beat stage 4 cancer of the neck? What was the treatment (what were the main drugs) .. also how long have you been cancer free.

      Can you be a little specific like .. how was it diagnosed and how did they start off the treatment and did they use combination therapy.

      Did you have a particular genetic disposition?

    9. Re:Population and cancer by n0tWorthy · · Score: 1

      Maybe some of the saving from strokes and heart disease mean you are more likely to eventually die of cancer. But the death rates from all these diseases have declined steadily since the 50s. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/04/23/science/0424-cancer-graphic.html

      --
      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is facing a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria -
    10. Re:Population and cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why is this not marked 5?

    11. Re:Population and cancer by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Great post. Despite what you say, I believe that the death rate for cancer will be near zero by 2100. Yes, it may always be with us, but at that point, it may be just an inconvenience (like baldness is now).

      On a pedantic note, my "faulty logic flag" went up, when I read this:

      More than 30% of cancer is preventable via avoiding risk factors (which suggests that 70% of it is not preventable at all).

      Actually "More than 30% of cancer is preventable" means just the opposite of what you said.
      If "More than 30% of cancer is preventable" is a true statement, then the statement "70% of it is not preventable" must be a false statement.

      It's possible for "69.999% to be not preventable", but impossible for "70% to be not preventable".

    12. Re:Population and cancer by ledow · · Score: 1

      Totally agree with your logic. Thinko.

    13. Re:Population and cancer by n0tWorthy · · Score: 1

      I beat it because I went in once I found a lump in my neck and they were able to claim "early detection". Most people ignore things until they get painful, I didn't and that has lead to to survival. I was treated with surgery (a radical left neck dissection), Radiation (primary treatment, 71 rads of IMRT proton beam radiation over 33 doses in 6 weeks) and chemo (secondary treatment, cisplatin once a week for 6 weeks). Pretty much any cancer found in the head/neck will be at a stage 4 level because it's big and has a very good blood supply. I was given anywhere from 60% to 90% odds of 5 year survival depending on the doctor. I am at 4 years since diagnosis right now. It wasn't genetic, smoking or drinking caused. It may have been caused by the HPV virus but as far as I know that testing wasn't done. My tumors are in a tumor bank though so they can be used for research.

      --
      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is facing a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria -
    14. Re:Population and cancer by Archimboldo · · Score: 1

      Well, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The study mentioned by the NYT corrected for age and perhaps other factors they had models and data for. But I don't know if they could quantify all environmental factors like exposure to synthetic materials, stress, intake of preservatives and saturated fats, obesity, etc.

      Second, there are specific cancers that they have been able to treat with more success like leukemia. The NYT series did show graphs of age adjusted deaths by individual cancer, but alas these graphs only go as far as 1994, so individual success stories tend to be obscured.

    15. Re:Population and cancer by jcr · · Score: 1

      I had a customer many years ago, who was an oncologist. He said the main reason we see cancer so much these days is because we live long enough to get cancer.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  25. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by dragonjujotu · · Score: 1

    Well the summary actually says it's 30,000 mutations for skin cancer and 23,000 for lung cancer, but at least you got it right in your math.

    --
    Yes, I am obsessed with ellipses.
  26. Re:tHIS iS yOUR fIRST fLAME by auLucifer · · Score: 1

    Oh my. An AC troll without a spelling mistake and good grammar! Sorry Mr AC but you fail

    --
    If I was witty I'd put something funny here but, as it stands, I am not and have just wasted seconds of your life
  27. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the article is total crap. UV light causes very specific kinds of DNA damage (pyrimidine dimers for the most part), but simply replicating too quickly without the proper error repair mechanisms working at full efficiency is more than enough to induce mutations simply from polymerase errors. the parent is spot on: the genetic instability of cancer contributes significantly to the mutations, and only a subset of them are related to the cancer's actual ability to survive/continue proliferating.

  28. "Entirely Caused By Sun" - Show Me The Evidence! by idealego · · Score: 1

    "The scientists found the DNA code for a skin cancer called melanoma contained more than 30,000 errors almost entirely caused by too much sun exposure."
    This is obviously such a ridiculous statement that I'm surprised it made it into the BBC article.
    Show me the evidence that almost 100% of DNA errors in skin cells or skin cancer cells are caused by sun exposure...

  29. Insurance companies must be excited by dippityfisch · · Score: 1

    Ah let me see...my crystal ball says that in the future you will be excluded from insurance cover if your DNA shows cancer markers. What about that job you applied for? Your DNA says that you may have a propensity for borderline personality disorder...go straight to management!

  30. Oh good, another scary number by xrayspx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the things driving me when I began the quitting process was that my back of the napkin math showed I had smoked in the area of 148,000 cigarettes. I had a hard time putting that in terms of anything else. I couldn't compare it to any other non-reflexive thing. I haven't signed my name 148,000 times, or tied my shoes. What have I done 20+ times per day for 20 years?

    Now I learn that that means I have 10,000 cell mutations on top of that. Neato. Of course, 10,000 cells is kind of a drop in the bucket compared to the inner surface of my airway.

    To smokers: Please note his does not mean that I'm not still hopefully addicted to nicotine. Now it just comes in the form of Cherry Commit Lozenges. They work pretty OK. I've had maybe 1 cigarette per month for the last 5 months.

    On the other hand, I miss that I no longer look cool.

    1. Re:Oh good, another scary number by The+Bean · · Score: 1

      I was wondering about that. 10,000 individual mutations is not so bad like you said, chances are a lot of those cells would die off.

      But if that 10,000 number refers to the number of mutations they could find today, ie, mutations that survived and live on in patches of your lung tissue right now, that is a different story.

    2. Re:Oh good, another scary number by Spit · · Score: 1

      I smoked for nearly 25 years and stopped a week after taking up snus. Haven't smoked since.

      --
      POKE 36879,8
    3. Re:Oh good, another scary number by xrayspx · · Score: 1

      I was torn as to how I intended to use the 10,000 number myself.

      A:) 1 mutation per 15 smokes seems bad and will act as a motivator to keep not doing it.

      B:) 10,000 cells over my 20 years is a vanishingly small number in the grand scheme of things, so...What, Me Worry?

      You're right, it seems pretty ambiguously stated though. My initial read on it is that for every 15 cigarettes smoked, you can count on one cell mutation. But it's much scarier if it's 1 in 15 based on how many mutated cells they find down the line.

    4. Re:Oh good, another scary number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other other hand you do smell a lot better now, and we thank you for that.

    5. Re:Oh good, another scary number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, I miss that I no longer look cool.

      Surprise! You didn't look cool.

    6. Re:Oh good, another scary number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, I miss that I no longer look cool.

      I'm in the exact same situation. Once I got rid of my stylish accessory, that's exactly what I was thinking.

    7. Re:Oh good, another scary number by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      I had smoked in the area of 148,000 cigarettes.

      On the other hand, I miss that I no longer look cool.

      148,000 cigarettes, at today's prices (a quarter per cigarette) is $37,000. Wow. You smoked a Lexus.

      I think you'd look a hell of a lot cooler in a Lexus than with a butt on your lips.

    8. Re:Oh good, another scary number by LeadSongDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What have I done 20+ times per day for 20 years?

      Cough?

      --
      Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
    9. Re:Oh good, another scary number by xrayspx · · Score: 1

      Damn no moderating in threads you post in...

  31. If this is true by TheRecklessWanderer · · Score: 1

    If this is true, does that not mean (by cause and affect) that there is a provable direct relation between cigarette smoking and cancer? Would that not indicate that a lawsuit is in order?

    --
    Mean what you say...say what you mean.
  32. Cancer of other things by amazingxkcd · · Score: 1

    Now that these scientists got the genetic code for skin and lung cancer, should we get them to figure the genetic code for the stupidity cancer? I think so, it will be hard, but very well rewarding

  33. Tell That to Monsanto by Telephone+Sanitizer · · Score: 4, Informative

    > The genes aren't patentable.

    Tell that to Monsanto. If the genes from their GE plants turn up in a farmer's soy crop, he's in for hell even if they just drifted over as pollen from neighboring fields.

    In the United States, patents protect not just the device or technique, but also the product of it. Thus, those who patent techniques for isolating genes also have patent-protection for the genes, themselves. Patents do not ordinarily cover "products of nature," but when something exists in a lab in "purified" form, it's exempted from this limitation. http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/patents.shtml

    Here's what Monsanto does with their patents:
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0115-04.htm

    Under U.S. patent law, a farmer commits an offense even if they unknowingly plant Monsanto's seeds without purchasing them from the company. Other countries have similar laws.

    In the well-known case of Canadian farmer Percy Schmeiser, pollen from a neighbor's GE canola fields and seeds that blew off trucks on their way to a processing plant ended up contaminating his fields with Monsanto's genetics.

    The trial court ruled that no matter how the GE plants got there, Schmeiser had infringed on Monsanto's legal rights when he harvested and sold his crop. After a six-year legal battle, Canada's Supreme Court ruled that while Schmeiser had technically infringed on Monsanto's patent, he did not have to pay any penalties.

    Schmeiser, who spoke at last year's World Social Forum in India, says it cost 400,000 dollars to defend himself.

    "Monsanto should held legally responsible for the contamination," he said.

    Another North Dakota farmer, Tom Wiley, explains the situation this way: "Farmers are being sued for having GMOs on their property that they did not buy, do not want, will not use and cannot sell."

    1. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's not entirely true. Chemical patents are process or molecule, not both. And in this case you couldn't patent the gene sequence to begin with since it's a matter of discovery rather than creation.

    2. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 1

      > The genes aren't patentable.

      Tell that to Monsanto. If the genes from their GE plants turn up in a farmer's soy crop, he's in for hell even if they just drifted over as pollen from neighboring fields.

      In the United States, patents protect not just the device or technique, but also the product of it. Thus, those who patent techniques for isolating genes also have patent-protection for the genes, themselves. Patents do not ordinarily cover "products of nature," but when something exists in a lab in "purified" form, it's exempted from this limitation. http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/patents.shtml

      I think you're deliberately misunderstanding a patented product produced by genetic manipulation so that you can introduce a completely unrelated topic.

      Genes are not patentable. Products created through genetic manipulation are. Processes by which damaged genes can be identified are. Genes themselves are not.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    3. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by Telephone+Sanitizer · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you're deliberately misunderstanding a patented product produced by genetic manipulation so that you can introduce a completely unrelated topic.

      Genes are not patentable.

      Sequences of genes are patentable.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_patent

      Many of the farmers sued by Monsanto have never used Monsanto seed and never had Monsanto seeds end up in their fields.

      Often, GE pollen crosses a few fields and contaminates neighboring farms. Monsanto's agents do (sometimes illegal) spot-checks and discover that a farmer's crop contains genes from the Monsanto seeds and then they sue to confiscate the entire crop or to force the farmer to incinerate his fields as an infringer.

      It is not the presence of the original product (the Monsanto seeds) that they sue over. It is the presence of sequences of genes that they own the rights to. If the only thing that they had rights to were the original seeds then they would have no standing to sue over hybrids from pollen from their seeds.

      The situation is getting worse as time goes on and courts get involved more often. When they sue, they try to cover as many broad arguments as they can. Companies patenting sequences of RNA are now even claiming rights over the proteins and DNA that the RNA codes for. As they usually sue poor agrarians who can't afford to put up a good defense, bad judgments are becoming strong precedents.

      Look up "product by process" for more info.

      Here's a start for you:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2220018/

      Patents on human genetic compositions of matter cover a broad array of chemicals and technologies. For example, human insulin, human growth hormone and many other proteins that can be isolated and purified from human blood or urine can be patented. Further, synthesized products can be covered by various patent claims, including (1) claims to the sequences used (both the sequence to be transcribed into RNA and proteins as well as promoter sequences); (2) the virus or other vectors containing the claimed sequence; (3) transfected cells, cell lines and nonhuman organisms created and used in these processes, and, perhaps most importantly, (4) the proteins or other therapeutic products made by these claimed processes. The last, called 'product by process' claims, allow patent owners to prohibit the use or sale of products made by the claimed processes, regardless of where the product is made.

    4. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by dhammabum · · Score: 1

      Well in Australia, you can in fact patent the gene sequence - well not the sequence but the result. There is specific legislation in place - The Plant Variety Rights Act. I don't know if this is replicated in the US but here a loophole allows you to patent a variety merely by discovering and describing it.

      --
      I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
    5. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The contamination in this case should be treated like any other contamination (e.g., oil spill, toxic waste, etc.). The contaminator should be liable for the cleanup.

      Monsanto (or the neighbor) should pay for the contaminated crop at market value at which point they can do with it what they will. Otherwise they forfeit their rights to the product.

    6. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by TheSync · · Score: 1

      Genes are not patentable.

      I think I know what you are getting at, but it is a very fine point.

      US Patents must be be new, be useful, and be nonobvious. Thus I can't patent the gene: "ATG GAT AAC AAT...TAG" by itself without being able to explain its usefulness.

      On the other hand, consider US Patent 5,625,136, which discloses a gene and its usefulness: "DNA sequences optimized for expression in plants are disclosed. The DNA sequences preferably encode for an insecticidal polypeptides, particularly insecticidal proteins from Bacillus thuringiensis. Plant promoters, particular tissue-specific and tissue-preferred promoters are also provided. Additionally disclosed are transformation vectors comprising said DNA sequences. The transformation vectors demonstrate high levels of insecticidal activity when transformed into maize."

    7. Re:Tell That to Monsanto by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      In the United States, patents protect not just the device or technique, but also the product of it.

      Wait, so if I patent topological sorting, I also have a monopoly on the use of sorted lists?

  34. Misleading title... by hahn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Saying they've "cracked" the code to these two cancers (skin and lung) is not really as big a step as the title implies. They've found the genetic mutations associated with the cancers. That's probably the easy part (and it wasn't so easy). The problem in studying cancer is that the function of genes is often dynamic and interdependent. Think of a room with 30,000 light switches. Sometimes light switch #5 will turn on the light bulb, but sometimes it won't. It depends on whether light switch # 7, 100, and 10542 are all on simultaneously or not. And if switch #2742 is on, the light, if it's on, will be very dim. This why even though we give a cancer a single name - e.g. "melanoma" - there are often very different mutations present, any one or multiple ones which can affect the person's survival, but not necessarily all the time. There are cancers which reliably result from single mutations, but the most common ones are due to mutations in many many different genes. To the point that most cases of cancer can or should be considered unique.

    IMHO, where I think the results of these studies may be most helpful with regards to treating people successfully is figuring out which mutations cause the cancer to spontaneously regress, whether it's by self-destruction or immune mechanisms. Even then, maybe it's not even because of a cancer mutation. Maybe some people possess some genetic trait in their immune system that allows them to destroy cancers. In which case, too many people would be looking in the wrong haystack for a needle.

    --
    "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
  35. Great! by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    "the experts estimate a typical smoker acquires one new mutation for every 15 cigarettes they smoke."

    I will now become a heavy smoker in hopes of gaining X-Men-like superpowers.

  36. biochemistry noob asks: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't "crack" slightly sensationalistic?
    Seems like this type of endeavors have recently been fairly routine.

  37. The "real" cause of cancer by reboot246 · · Score: 3, Funny

    After much research and thought, I've come to the conclusion that white mice actually cause cancer.

  38. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the article in Nature (http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091216/full/news.2009.1143.html) reports that it's 15 mutations per cigarette smoked. BBC got it wrong.

    FTA: "The team estimates that every cigarette smoked results in 15 mutations."

    Thereby making it only 100 packs needed to cause cancer.

  39. Re:"Entirely Caused By Sun" - Show Me The Evidence by RDW · · Score: 2, Informative

    'Show me the evidence that almost 100% of DNA errors in skin cells or skin cancer cells are caused by sun exposure...'

    Not 100% perhaps, but from the paper:

    'DNA damage due to ultraviolet light leads to the formation of covalent links between two adjacent pyrimidines. Consequently, C>T mutations due to ultraviolet light usually occur at dipyrimidine sequences. Therefore, to evaluate further the role of ultraviolet light in the pathogenesis of somatic mutations in COLO-829, we examined the sequence context of C>T substitutions...[Lots of technical stuff about the sequence context of the mutations with some impressive looking p-values] ...Therefore, the mutation spectrum and sequence context indicate that most C>T/G>A somatic substitutions in COLO-829 are attributable to ultraviolet-light-induced DNA damage.'

  40. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vaporizers are one way an individual could reduce the particulate matter in the inhaling of most any substance that otherwise needs to be superheated. Most use one for smoking dope but it is just as viable for tobacco. Insert head shop jokes here.

  41. Still no cure for cancer, but hey! by fotoguzzi · · Score: 1

    // Not sure where I was going with this.

    --
    Their they're doing there hair.
  42. Nicotine and FOXM1 by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    I always thought that the nicotine is completely harmless. You can chew the nicotine gum for every second of your life and you will probably be fine.

    There's some controversy over some research that needs to be hashed out over nicotine and FOXM1 expression. Recent research has suggested that if you have a mutation in this gene (which is a precursor to cancer), nicotine may worsen your chances of getting cancer. Nicotine alone won't do it, but if you're already heading down that route...

    Some researchers are skeptical over the study because numerous other studies have shown no link between nicotine and cancer, but only time will tell who is right.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  43. What investment costs? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Seriously, what you are suggesting is ether unreasonable; recoup direct investment costs only, or; basically, the regulated utility model, where you could turn a profit by redecorating the presidents office and old investments where never called failures or obsolete, just run forever (and ever and ever) with guaranteed ROI.

    You've heard of the floating break-even? (Hollywood accounting) Do you really want to inflict that on R&D? That's the first obvious unintended consequence.

    As long as patents don't go the way of copyrights and extend the term unreasonably they remain necessary. There scope is a question to me (not that I've got shit to say about anything). Particularly business method/algorithm patents.

    Your capitalism light around R&D approach fails on capital mobility grounds alone. The R&D capital will travel to the best ROI.

    Leave us with the current capitalism light, at least it sort of works for now.

    I expect old fashioned secrets to return to vogue when the international IP landscape fractures just slightly after the Dollar does (which is to say well after the Pound craters but slightly before the Euro.)

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  44. Michael Chin by mikorangester · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the reasons why slashdot is good is because its readers tend to be aware of the state of the technology. Thanks commenters for precise answers to some very stupid genetic advertising. And yes, skin cancer grows on you....:D

  45. patents don't work financially by pydev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that, but that's the way it is.

    No, it is not. Research is expensive, but a lot of that is already paid for by taxes. Furthermore, the resulting medicines are themselves very profitable and expensive, and a lot of that profit is, again, derived from the government.

    Additionally, market forces aren't working: profitable drugs (the ones drug companies have an incentive to develop) are not the drugs that people actually need. Drug companies love to develop drugs that reduce the symptoms of uncurable diseases and need to be taken for life; the drugs we actually need are drugs that cure diseases with a single dose. They also prefer to develop lifestyle drugs and drugs for common but harmless ailments, instead of developing drugs for curing serious disease.

    According to them, without patents, there would be no research and progress in this field whatsoever.

    We'd have to increase public funding for research and clinical trials somewhat, but on balance, we'd pay a lot less and get better drugs.

    The market works for a lot of things, but it doesn't work well for either research or drugs.

  46. Patent+Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should patent the cancer genes and start suing everybody with cancer for violating their IP! They could make a killing...

  47. The Problem is, by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

    Is this poster savagely mocking the Randroids and Glibertarians that infest /., or is he one of the Randroids and Glibertarians that infest /.?

    "It's exhilarating to see such visceral confirmation of the superior efficiencies of free market capitalism. If the scientists working for this cancer research corporation didn't have the profit motive behind them, who knows how long it would have taken for them to reach this point in their research, that is, if the project had even gotten off the ground at all!"

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    1. Re:The Problem is, by foqn1bo · · Score: 1

      It was totally sarcastic all the way, I'm kind of dismayed that this line of thinking is so ingrained here that it wasn't more obvious.

    2. Re:The Problem is, by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      "It was totally sarcastic all the way, I'm kind of dismayed that this line of thinking is so ingrained here that it wasn't more obvious."

      Indeed! I'm sure you felt it was SO over the top, it could not possibly be mistaken for a serious comment.

      Considering the genuine Randroids & Glibertarians that comment here, it really is damned hard to distinguish sincere from satire.

      My sincere apologies if I gave offense to you!

      To the Randroids and Glibertarians who took offense, please, have some more!

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
  48. So hide in the basement and don't smoke by billstewart · · Score: 1

    See - it's just not a problem for most of us pasty white boy types :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  49. Re:The extrapolation for lung cancer is badly flaw by John+Newman · · Score: 1

    That's a pack a day for 47 years, which is admittedly within the bounds of possibility, but still an awful lot of smoking.

    Never worked in a VA hospital, eh? :) You measure smoking history in "pack-years" (actually packs/day * years). 47 is pretty unremarkable. It's not until you hit triple digits that it seems extraordinary.

  50. Joint by GWBasic · · Score: 1

    So how many joints does it take to get a mutation?

  51. Nominee for Exaggeration of the Millenium by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Though the story is newsworthy, this has the misleading title of the century. They didn't unlock it. They sequenced it. There's a big, big difference. It's the difference between having a map of South America and doing Sharon Stone on the throne of the Lost City of Gold.

    http://seqcore.brcf.med.umich.edu/doc/educ/dnapr/sequencing.html

  52. A slightly more technical summary by Hrshgn · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nature has a nice summary of the original research paper published in the same journal: http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091216/full/news.2009.1143.html

  53. Comparative genomics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the key benefits to this kind of technology will be the potential for comparative genomics to be performed. This will provide the means to discount the vast majority of the "passenger" mutations whilst singling out the drivers. It works, as the name suggests, by taking the genomes of many cancers and comparing them. If you see mutations occurring over and over again in the same genes, regulatory sequences etc. this is a sign that the target of that mutation is doing something important.

    Obviously, if you compare multiple gliomas, for example, you will draw out glioma specific mutations (as well as being able to define subtypes of glioma based on mutations). If you were to go broader and compare all types of blood cancers, say, then you would pick out targets important in the development of those cancers etc.

    Obviously we currently have a complete genome for only two cancers but within the next decade the improvement in sequencing will see this rise exponentially.

  54. For those who still chase gohsts check BrianPeskin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People are looking in the wrong place for the cure.

    Google Brian Peskin and the explanation on what this disease actually is.

  55. Lightweight! by PinkyDead · · Score: 1

    I quit 4 years, 3 months, 9 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes and 52 seconds ago.

    And I don't miss them at all.

    --
    Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
  56. Common damage by AlpineR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you fire a rifle at a running car, it might survive several shots and still keep running. Some of the shots go through the windows, some through the doors, and some just bounce off the pillars. But some shots could poke holes in the body and leave underlying parts exposed. Then further shots might puncture the gas tank or the radiator. A little less likely, shots might break the fuel pump or electric distributor. And just maybe a shot will interrupt the ignition circuit.

    Even though any particular car's damage will be unique, the damage that made cars stop running will be common. Most will involve the gas tank or radiator. And a few will involve smaller parts.

    A study like this is looking for those major parts which are likely to be damaged in cancer cells. It might also reveal common patterns of damage which disabled protective mechanisms and left those key part vulnerable. Then you might have an idea of how to detect critical damage, how to repair subcritical damage, how to armor critical areas, and how to completely disable malfunctioning cells.

    1. Re:Common damage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome... always so much clearer with a car analogy.

    2. Re:Common damage by Sluggy7 · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is an insightful analogy.

      To get significant results, we'll need to analyze the results of firing the rifle at cars thousands of times, and in the case of human genetics, every car is a little different. This study involves four or five cell lines, and they identified one gene with recurrent mutations across them, which may be just by chance. I'd file this under More Research Needed.

  57. Correction by AlpineR · · Score: 1

    You quote the article as saying:

    The team estimates that every cigarette smoked results in 15 mutations.

    I follow that link to find the article saying:

    The team estimates that every 15 cigarettes smoked results in a DNA mutation.

    And now there's a notice at the bottom:

    CORRECTED: This article previously stated that each cigarette smoked could result in an estimated 15 DNA mutations. In fact, the typical smoker would acquire one mutation for every 15 cigarettes smoked.

    Nature got it wrong and got corrected.

  58. That's nothing by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Funny

    Under the new ACTA agreement, this is considered to be an international act of mass genocide. But before they get tried for that, they'll be sued one million dollars per Human Genome End-User License violation (you'll learn more about that when the time comes) - somewhere around 6.8 quadrillion dollars - by the Pharmaceutical Industry Association of Earth (again...you'll find out about that later).

    Remember, the PIAE only wishes to protect your rights as a Human Genome licensee from those who wish to undermine the value of HG code by illegally reverse-engineering, illegally altering, or making illegal copies and illegal derivative works of the code. Without the PIAE, the rightful owners of HG copyrights and patents would not have the money they need to make life better for us all.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  59. Indeed, repeat the experiment over ! by DrYak · · Score: 1

    This is definitely a very impressive achievement in its own right, and the technology that has made this possible is pretty amazing, but it's a bit premature to say "we've cracked the genetic code of cancer" full stop.

    But how then would they manage to catch the attention of enough reader/viewer in order to accumulate enough eyeball-time to sell at an interesting rate to advertiser ?~

    More seriously :

    If they can find mutations that are more common than others or genes that are mutated more often than others, then they can perhaps discover new genes which, when mutated drive the development and progression of the tumor. If you can discover which genes are important you can perhaps design treatments for that.

    Yup. There's some interesting potential in data-mining if this experiment is repeated enough. You could also achieve some interesting result to pin down possible suspect by sequencing *several* tumoral cells and trying to see which mutation are common to most cells of 1 patient's cancer. But it needs to be also repeated over a population of several cancerous patients to obtain a list of "usual suspect" (beyond those we already know about. Like p53, BCR-ABL, ABC-transporters, etc.)

    By having a bigger amount of "gene usually over- / under- expressed in tumor", scientist may find expression pattern which don't- or seldom- occur in healthy cells and thus design drugs which are more cancer-specific.

    In an over-simplified caricature :
    - Lots of current cancer drugs target fast-replicating cells, because that's typical for cancer cell. Sadly, other important healthy cells also do replicate quickly - such as the immune system. Thus people treated with these drugs are immunodeficient
    - Such series of study might reveal a complex network of 30 genes all working together in tumours. Activity of the same genes might occur in other cells, but never more than 3 at a time. One could design a treatment which contain a mixture of two dozens of drugs, targeting these 30 genes and slightly lowering the efficiency of the produced proteins. Healthy cells won't be that much affected : they slightly lose some activity in only 3 crucial proteins. Cancer cells would be much more affected : they have decreased activity in all 30 proteins - this adds up and they might be significantly less good at surviving.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  60. evolution fixes everything? by doug141 · · Score: 1

    If cancer killed people before they reproduced then the genetic causes of cancer would be eliminated pretty quickly.

    Doesn't the presence of childhood diseases that have genetic causes, like cystic fibrosis (to name ONLY ONE), falsify this logic? Heck, doesn't childhood CHOKING have a genetic cause (genes place that windpipe where it is, after all, sure is good for speech though). Doesn't the same genetic trait that causes sickle cell help defend against malaria? Maybe life-form design involves trade-offs, some of which we know of, and some are yet-to-be-discovered.

    Secondly, this logic fails a whole different way by assuming grandparents don't help survival of their young.

    1. Re:evolution fixes everything? by n0tWorthy · · Score: 1

      Evolution is a messy business all right. I know some about cystic fibrosis though because both of my brothers children were born with it. The CF gene is carried by about 1 person in 29 but it affects only those that have 2 CF genes. It's a double recessive so it only effects a much smaller percentage of the population.

      I don't know a lot about genetics though beyond what you read in mainstream media so I can't say for sure why it doesn't evolve out of our species. My guess though would be that there isn't very much of that kind of evolutionary pressure on humans. We can coddle the sickly with our communities and doctors. Somehow I don't think most nearsighted (like me) neandrathals lasted too long yet we still have nearsighted people. Introduce a lot of chaotic violence and war into a society though and the sick , elderly and handicapped sure are at a disadvantage. I agree with you though that there is a lot more to be learned about genetics and why things have evolved the way they have.

      --
      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is facing a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria -
    2. Re:evolution fixes everything? by doug141 · · Score: 1

      Introduce a lot of chaotic violence and war into a society though and the sick , elderly and handicapped sure are at a disadvantage.

      Looking at evolution as people-centric instead of gene-centric is looking at it the wrong way. Two good books are The Selfish Gene (Dawkins), and Guns, Germs, and Steel (Diamond). The second book won a Pulitzer BTW. Here's what they will teach you:

      First, the "sick" can kick ass in a conflict. Europeans came to the new world with germs which killed 95% of the indigenous people without swinging a sword. The physical fighting was just mopping up survivors. So we ought to be real careful about assumptions regarding "handicaps" and "sickness."

      Second, soldiers (and peoples) benefit from generals (and leaders) who are wise. Those wise folk just might be the elderly. The elderly, who share more genes with their soldiers (and people) than with their enemies (and neighbors), assist their own genes by engaging in warfare (and diplomacy) wisely, to the detriment of their foolish young enemies (and neighbors). The book The Selfish Gene presents this idea much more clearly than I can in a concise post. Diamond's recent book "Collapse" also does a great job.

  61. I'm Safe by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I will just throw away every 15th smoke, that should about do it.

  62. Re:my power by daveime · · Score: 1

    Not as "cool" as you wasting one of your two posts to moan about it.

  63. trust me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't look cool. You just look like an addict.

  64. heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    80% of the smokers never get lung cancer. 80% of the people with lung cancer don;t have family history with lung cancer

  65. Worse.... by Hasai · · Score: 1

    ....They found 30,000 needles.

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  66. Cigarette companies contribute to society by nbauman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, cigarette smoking lowers public expenditures. Cigarette smokers are likely to die younger.

    The main savings is in pensions, social security, and health care for the aged.

    An Eastern European country required a cigarette company to submit data on the costs of cigarettes. The company handed the job over to their usual health economists and PR guys, who came up with a report that cigarette smoking would save the country money for those reasons.

    It was nice to see such refreshing candor from a cigarette company. Or maybe I should say, I'm glad they didn't stop to think about it before they released the report.

    Sorry I don't have a citation.

  67. are you sure nicotine not a carcinogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1172650/Chewing-nicotine-gum-increase-risk-mouth-cancer.html

    from wiki:
    nicotine and the increased cholinergic activity it causes have been shown to impede apoptosis, which is one of the methods by which the body destroys unwanted cells (programmed cell death). Since apoptosis helps to remove mutated or damaged cells that may eventually become cancerous, the inhibitory actions of nicotine may create a more favourable environment for cancer to develop, though this also remains to be proven.

    so its quite possible that pure nicotine itself promotes cancer, if only by decreasing the chance that a harmful mutation wont be stopped by one of the bodies safety mechanisms.

  68. Yeah Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like the electric car that was created, with plenty of power and everything (see documentary "Who stole the electric car") in the same way someone did find things about cancer that were not only ignored but also discredited :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuLncndAU0

    So what you read in the above article is nothing more than .... you decide!

  69. Re: Yes. Software patents are way stupid. by Telephone+Sanitizer · · Score: 1

    Wait, so if I patent topological sorting, I also have a monopoly on the use of sorted lists?

    Possibly.

    Adobe got a patent on code for generating tabbed and docking windows and sued Macromedia for using completely different code that would not have in any way infringed copyright, but nevertheless produced similar tabbed and docking windows in a GUI.

    Adobe won.

  70. You are healed today: Cancer is a lifestyle choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Otto von Warburg was given a Nobel Peace Prize for discovering that cancer dies and then is removed by the white blood cells when it's environment is oxygenated and too high of a PH level.

    Raymond Royal Rife discovered under microscope that varying or lowering the PH level of the substrate infected by cancer would cause a lifecycle in the cancer to produce a stage of virus to spread in that host substrate.

    Dr. Simoncini ( http://cancerisafungus.com/ ) is a professional surgeon that no longer cuts cancer out of bodies by scalpel because he has found the relationship of cancer growth to be indistinguishable from a fungus, therefore he only injects a solution of common Baking Soda directly into that cancerous growth and it therefore dies a death indistinguishable from how a fungus would die from the same administry.

    If you don't get enough oxygen, if you eat processed and GMO'd "food" biproducts, then you will get cancers. Cancer isn't caused by mutations in skin cells; cancer adheres to the weekend immune system and cells that it can infect. Raise your body's PH level by diet, hyperventilate yourself in some aerobic exercises, and constantly monitor your salival PH for changes and you'll always remove the cancer. By nature, everyone originally has cancer in their body that only takes root because something is done that causes the immune system to bypass it for a short enough time that it gets out of control.