Ginkgo Doesn't Improve Memory Or Cognitive Skills

JumperCable writes "Ginkgo biloba has failed — again — to live up to its reputation for boosting memory and brain function. Just over a year after a study showed that the herb doesn't prevent dementia and Alzheimer's disease, a new study from the same team of researchers has found no evidence that ginkgo reduces the normal cognitive decline that comes with aging. In the new study, the largest of its kind to date, DeKosky and his colleagues followed more than 3,000 people between the ages of 72 and 96 for an average of six years. Half of the participants took two 120-milligram capsules of ginkgo a day during the study period, and the other half took a placebo. The people who took ginkgo showed no differences in attention, memory, and other cognitive measures compared to those who took the placebo, according to the study, which was published in this week's Journal of the American Medical Association."

Comments

That's just Western prejudice

[For a Free Internet]

These euro-centric "scientists" can't see pas their narrow-minded blinders to tap into the millenia of cultural experience embodied in Eastern medical and spiritual traditions. The point is, Gingko Baloba has a very potent effect when added to the labels of alternative medical products, causing them to fly off the shelves in exchange for cash. Western medicine is just jealous and probably racist and sexist against peoples like me.

Re:That's just Western prejudice

[Hatta]

Sounds like they should do some tests on this "placebo" stuff to see what makes it as good as ginkgo.

Re:That's just Western prejudice

[Phreakiture]

I know you're joking, but I actually would have thought it really cool if they had a second control group who took nothing, just to see if there is a psychosomatic element in play.

Re:That's just Western prejudice

[Bigjeff5]

The placebo effect is the same as the occasional cancer patient that goes into remission when the best medical science said there was no way to survive. It definitely exists, and there is no good explanation for it. It's like a belief that you will recover, or in the case of placebos that some drug will improve whatever function, triggers something in your body to put out a little extra effort, and it is sometimes enough to turn the tide.

For simple things like a memory test, just believing you have a better chance of doing well allows you to do better than you would ordinarily. If you don't think it works, then it probably won't.

You've got to remember that even cognitive processes rely on physical bodily functions - mood depends on more of one type of chemical firing off than another, so even things like a placebo anti-depressant effect is changing the physical responses in your brain. It's quite impressive, when you think about it.

Re:That's just Western prejudice

[Bigjeff5]

If the Ginko was doing anything, it should have shown a slight improvement over the placebo even at 120mg. If the results come back essentially the same, then it is obviously not the Ginko improving memory.

The placebo effect is powerful on its own, and had they used another control group who took nothing you probably would have seen the Ginko and placebo groups both averaging better scores than the control group. That doesn't mean the Ginko itself actually does anything.

Even assuming you are right that Ginko will have literally no affect whatsoever until the dosage is above a certain level (which I find ridiculous, btw), if it is unsafe to use at its effective dosage, what's the point?

Medical conspiracy!

[vvaduva]

Yes but was it ORGANIC Kinkgo?? That is the question! This test was obviously conducted by real doctors who don't want us to know the truth about the power of eating weeds that grow in exotic jungles.

Re:Medical conspiracy!

[Jason Levine]

No, first you need to grow the Ginko organically. Then you need to increase the potency by diluting it homeopathically. Next, you form it into an ear candle. Once you do that, the the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot will contact the aliens from Vega 7 who will beam increased memory skills and ESP into you. But if any of this is attempted by "Western medicine", it will all fail.

Re:Medical conspiracy!

[The Flymaster]

Well, not to speak for ginko or non-science, but it's not like eating weeds that grow in exotic jungles hasn't helped save a life or two.

Re:Medical conspiracy!

[cain]

I know you're making a joke, but ginko is far from exotic and nor is it a weed (it's a tree). It is widely grown in cities as it is very hardy. If you live in NYC, you see them all over the place and come fall can't help but smell the foul odor of the pods as they fall to the ground and are crushed underfoot.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=200005235
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginkgo_Biloba
&c, &c

Actually works to their advantage

[jarocho]

I bet the herbal supplements industry is hoping its customers will forget all about this report eventually... :)

Re:Actually works to their advantage

[mcgrew]

On the other hand, St. John's Wort has been proven as effective at treating depression as Paxil. So you can't lump all the herbals together. Just because Ginko doesn't work doesn't mean no herbs work.

Re:Actually works to their advantage

[Chris Daniel]

Yes, St. John's Wort is effective. However, you should always consult with your doctor before taking it, as it can interfere with other drugs (specifically, I have read that it prevents or retards the mechanism of absorbing drugs into the bloodstream).

However, do keep in mind that the effectiveness of a single herbal medicine does not change the effectiveness of other herbal medicines.

Re:Actually works to their advantage

[TubeSteak]

You could consider this as evidence that depression is overdiagnosed and a prognosis of "light-moderate" depression is most likely bullshit.

I don't see how this is insightful.
It's like saying that since a band-aid can't staunch a bullet wound, that trauma is overdiagnosed and a prognosis of "paper-cut" is most likely bullshit. /. has a cadre of people who seem to deny/downplay the existence of mental disorders.
They contribute nothing to the discussion other than to shit on decades of medical science.

Re:Actually works to their advantage

[Dan Ost]

What herbal remedies do you recommend?

Why do you believe that these remedies are effective?

How do these remedies compare to the drugs that target the same complaints in both cost and effectiveness?

What qualifies you to be making medicinal recommendations to others? Do you have relevant training?

Over-reliance on synthetics created by for-profit organizations is itself basically a disease. If, say, your first choice for addressing depression is an SSRI prescription, you've been infected by advertising.

What would your first choice be for treating depression? And what, exactly, is your decision based on?

memory no... blood flow very much so

[McNihil]

Aspirin or Ginko?

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/ginkgo-biloba-000247.htm

Better concentration (some subjects thinking that that is one of the memory functions) could be a side effect of them not having headaches due to hypertension. Sample set yadi yada and so on.... statistics and damned lies.

Re:Ginko has a different effect on me

[sakdoctor]

People say the same about crystal meth

Untested drug found useless... wonders never cease

[jeffmeden]

Or perhaps it's best put, wonders often never materialize in the first place. Is anyone really surprised that something sold with a big "these claims have not been evaluated by the FDA" on the bottle has, in fact, been found to do nothing close to the claim?

Hopefully herbal viagra is next, and some day spammers will be emailing about things people actually can use...*

*(warning the claims in this post have not been evaluated by the FDA)

Re:So what exactly then...

[nschubach]

The same thing that the color black is good for. Selling stuff to people.

Re:Ginko has a different effect on me

[Abcd1234]

Well, that or you just assume that's the effect it will have on you, and so you behave accordingly.

But, hey, who am I to argue with a placebo effect that works for you?

Re:Untested drug found useless... wonders never ce

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The "These claims have not been evaluated by the FDA" and its close friend "This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease." are generally a signal that the product is sold as a "dietary supplement" or "nutritional supplement".

Thanks to DSHEA, the FDA legally can't do jack about it unless they have direct evidence of a given product causing serious harm(and their budget for going on epidemiological expeditions for that sort of thing isn't much to write home about).

Whether you consider this a shining beacon of freedom, or an ignoble nest of quacks, it seems likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.

Interesting fact

[static416]

You know what they call alternative medicine that works?.... Medicine.

Supplements industry group replies with BS

[noidentity]

I love the bullshit reply from the supplements industry group:

A supplements industry group, Council for Responsible Nutrition, said other studies suggest the herbal supplement can be effective in improving cognitive function.

"In an area where there are few other safe, affordable options, I would hate to see this study send the wrong message to consumers," Douglas MacKay, CRN vice president said in an email. "I would continue to recommend Ginkgo biloba to older adults as a safe, effective option for supporting cognitive health."

Cue the "but it worked in my case" replies...

Re:So what exactly then...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Ginkgo Balboa is clinically proven to improve your boxing skills...

Re:You know what else it's good for though, right?

[BarryJacobsen]

"Our bear makes other people more beautiful to you"

Is that a Care Bear, or what kind of bear, exactly?

Disclosures: Dr DeKosky Gets Big Pharma Money

[Ron Bennett]

Financial Disclosures: ... Dr DeKosky reports receiving grants or research support from Elan, Myriad, Neurochem, and GlaxoSmithKline and serving on the advisory boards of or consulting for AstraZeneca, Abbott, Baxter, Daichi, Eisai, Forest, Genentech, GlaxoSmithKline, Lilly, Medivation, Merck, NeuroPharma, Neuroptix, Pfizer, Myriad, and Servier. No other disclosures were reported.

Not to say the results of this particular study are necessarily bogus, but sure makes one wonder.

Big pharma dislikes "natural", as in often unpatentable, treatments; discourages their use.

Ron

Re:No surprise because of the dosage

[jeffmeden]

Never mind then that Vitamin C (arguably an 'unrefined plant material') has the odd effect of making you *not get scurvy and die* as a result of a daily dosage of around 100mg.

Relatively small doses of simple things can affect you in lots of interesting ways. Look at medication that treats thyroid disorders; it's a simple material (although it doesn't grow on trees) dosed out in *micrograms*, the slightest variation of which (less than 15 micrograms for some people, myself included) your body WILL feel the difference of.

Most things, sure, your body sends in one end and it comes out the other relatively unchanged. Certain things, though, are profoundly influential.

Re:Ginko has a different effect on me

[Synn]

I just can't get up the energy to take a pill every day. Do you think they could make a pill that makes me motivated to take pills?

Re:Ginko has a different effect on me

[bearsinthesea]

Really? So it works for 30 year olds, probably? Are there any, say, facts you are basing this conclusion on? Any reasoning?

Your post seems to say that drugs that work on younger people generally don't work on older people, or people with health problems. Can you give some other examples of this general rule? Maybe some other scientific studies?

Re:Ginko has a different effect on me

[Aladrin]

I think that your father's boot is used for that. It's an anal suppository.

Re:So what exactly then...

[jollyreaper]

Ginkgo Balboa is clinically proven to improve your boxing skills...

And Ginko Bilboa is clinically proven to get you there and back again.

Re:No surprise because of the dosage

[steelfood]

As somebody else above has said, plant extracts are not a concentrated source of anything. Which means you're probably better off comparing the effects of 120mg of freshly squeezed orange juice on scurvy than 100mg of vitamin C.

No doubt, you are correct. Very small dosages of certain vitamins and minerals can affect the body greatly. But very small dosages of naturally-occurring, unpurified, untreated, otherwise minimally processed things probably don't.