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Canada's Airlines Face a Privacy Dilemma
Interoperable writes "Canada's airlines are caught between a rock and a hard place in the face of new US regulations that require them to collect and hand over personal information about passengers. Handing over information regarding a passenger's name, gender and birth-date may violate Canadian privacy laws but merely flying over American airspace is conditional on doing exactly that. It seems that the long arms of the TSA are eager to grope at Canadians taking a shortcut to Toronto; no doubt to prevent any terrorist attacks on Lake Huron."
.. to do exactly what they say, or suffer?
Now I didn't see this one coming.
This is precisely why I won't fly into a US airport. Fuck 'em, you country no longer interests me. I admire you attitude. If you want to overfly Rome, you better do as the Romans demand, otherwise, go somewhere else.
Japan already fingerprints and photographs all foreigners when they enter the country.
I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them.
Now, I suppose the US could legitimately demand that any flights crossing its territory make a landing, hence subjecting passengers to inspection per Article 9(b-c), but that's only supposed to be available on a temporary basis.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
If we block them they block us and soon we'll be traveling to Alaska via Russia (which I've heard you can see via some of the houses on the coast)
I have a heck of a lot more faith in Canadian airport security than in American airport security! There are some little differences, e.g., we aren't required to take such ridiculous steps as taking our shoes off. But the one biggest difference: our security personnel are calm, collected, and doing their job well.
Case in point: I recently traveled through Philadelphia. Airport security there was a gong show. All of the TSA personnel were in what looked like panic mode -- running around, not standing in one place for more than two seconds, trying to direct a multitude of people and their baggage at once. Contrast this with YVR, YEG, YYC, YYZ, or any of the other Canadian airports I've been through (and for comparison, YYZ is much busier than PHL). All of the personnel at security screenings are standing in one place, directing people in an orderly fashion. Everyone clearly has a single, specific job to do, and they are giving their full attention to doing it.
You can invent all the crazy policies you want about people not standing up for the last hour of a flight, etc. But, one necessary component of security screenings is having well-organized screening areas. When such simple things as that are neglected (for whatever reason), you're doing everything wrong. So I'd think twice before assuming Canadian airport security has much to learn at all from US airport security.
Since we are not allowed to know if even one, single, lone, terrorist attack in the US has been thwarted by these information lists just what can a citizen do? Sending mail to a congressman or voting according to a position on more of this information collection is absurd as we simply are not allowed to have a clue as to whether this tactic works at all. For all I know perhaps this nonsense simply creates jobs that fat cat politicians hand out to their buddies.
I think I have a solution. We as Canadians should just reclassify all flights over American air space as Cargo Flights. No passengers to report. It's not like the plane is going to land in the States or they are going to pull over an aircraft for an inspection. Of course in an emergency situation where one does need to land in the states, it will be an unfortunate clerical error that lead the incorrect information to be given to the US.
My country has a bill that puts limits on handling of my personal data. It was passed because the EU demands that. But it also demands that my bank passes info about my money transactions to USA. It would be pretty difficult to live without bank account and legally impossible to run a business without bank account. My privacy is screwed and I can't even vote to change that - short of convincing EU to challenge US.
We had stories about US demandingdata about air travelers before. Well, you don't have to travel by air. You can use cash and not wire transfers. You can live without internet if you don't want ISP to log who/when you talk to. You can have your privacy - if you live back in the woods. Thanks God, the war on terrorism works so well.
Handing over information regarding a passenger's name, gender and birth-date may violate Canadian privacy laws
What's worse is that the TSA can't even get any of those three facts right in many cases.
Last Name: "Alphabetic, no numeric or special characters, except dash ( - ) and single quote ( ' ). Do not include suffixes (e.g., jr.). Truncate names longer than 35 characters to 35 characters".
First Name: "Secure Flight allows first initial only;" otherwise, same as last name. Honorifics are not to be placed in the name.
Middle Name: same as first name.
So if any of your three names doesn't perfectly fit this convention, you will be hit with a $100 Change fee, including if you don't have a middle name. This is particularily problematic for asian, greek, or many other nationalities whose names include special characters or when translated to english result in a name longer than 35 characters.
Gender: Once again, the TSA fails to account for any manner of diversity in the human population. Anyone who doesn't conform to the gender stereotype fixed to your official documents will be subject to additional (unwanted) attention. I wonder if they'll be offering sensitivity training for the crossdressers, transgendered, butch lesbians, and intersexed amongst us. And god help you if the Driver's Bureau screws up, or you live in a state that won't alter birth records after surgery, or one of a dozen other very real problems.
Birthdate: Did you know a lot of people who immigrate to this country don't know when they were born? In fact, in developing countries, it's quite common for people not to know their actual age. People assume a person's date of birth is a fixed thing -- how could you screw that up? And if you live in this country, you don't have to worry about this anyway. Well, remember that until the mid-90s the Social Security Administration wasn't so on about immediately registering newborns -- and did you know some people choose to have their kids at home? Some people don't get a birth certificate until they're five years old because parents just plain forget -- and for a variety of reasons, sometimes they fudge the actual date. Try getting this changed later -- it's fun.
In short, there's no real security being added here. All of it can be defeated quite easily in any event by putting a gun to the head of your wife, kid, or anything else you don't feel like losing. And as we make these security restrictions increasingly ethnocentric, the terrorists will adapt their strategies accordingly, because the payoff is so damn good! They sucked the US economy of trillions of dollars and all they had to do was crash four passenger planes. We offer the best "bang for the buck", literally and figuratively. It doesn't matter if they make it ten thousand times more difficult and expensive to pull another 9/11 job -- it's still an amazingly good deal for the terrorists.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
So I say ever other country starts finger-printing and frisking Americans just as a matter of policy.
See how long before the state departments starts whining about that.
This is precisely why I won't fly into a US airport. Fuck 'em, you country no longer interests me.
You obviously don't get out much. Most countries do far worse than the US. There's a lot of anti American sentiment on Slashdot. Try flying into Saudi Arabia with an Israeli passport or even more fun vice versa. If you listen to some people on Slashdot the US is worse than the Soviet Union ever was. I grew up during the Cold War and that's just plain silly. I've also traveled to many foreign countries and trust me the US isn't that bad and most of the bad was in response to foreigners attacking us. We also have one of the more open immigration and residency policies. Virtually anyone can work here, legal or not, yet oddly enough few countries welcome Americans to work there. I've known many Brits, Australians and Dutch, just examples, that constantly bemoaned how awful it was getting work permits here or how bad the country was yet oddly enough they were working here. I wouldn't be welcome in any of their countries without changing citizenship. Canada has an open immigration policy yet Americans aren't allowed to work there. I work in the film industry and oddly enough it's flooded with Canadians both actors and crew but I can't work there. As a writer I need a Canadian to share writing credit to have a film shot there and it's tough as a director even to work there when it's my script. The whole point is for all the bad things done the negative aspects of the US are ALWAYS overstated and the good points generally ignored. We help support a lot of other countries and economies and we're simply expected to with little or no acknowledgement. We get blasted for using too many resources yet we are also attacked for not buying enough from other countries, odd given our trade deficit. Also we export a large percentage of the food grown here then get blasted over biofuels and that we use too much food. What happens is cherry picking. It's childsplay to find bad laws and bad policies, every country has them. With the US it often seems that's all anyone outside the country wants to see. Most Americans don't agree with their government policies but it's a problem that exists in most countries and is hardly unique to this country. We got blamed for the Bush years but few pointed out the majority of Americans voted against him. He won by a technicality. It's ridiculous to blame each one of us for everything our government does. Just because we get stuck with a certain leader doesn't make us all rightwing conservatives like flipping some cosmic switch. Each country has had their political crosses to bear. You don't have to come to the States just hop on a plane to some other countries around the world and actually see what's out there. If it isn't the utopia you pictured then try the US and see if it's as bad as you thought. Ya gotta leave your parent's basement some time.
Canada started using U.S. data a couple of years ago. Sadly Canada this is the downside of our arrangement with you. You don't get just the good part of this arrangement.
Actually, when I flew from the UK to Rome a few months ago, it was very noticeable that the staff on arrival were friendly and helpful, and the visible security consisted of a perfunctory passport check and one guard with a dog.
Flying home to Stansted in the UK, we were greeted by long queues and a passport check by someone looking down their nose at us as though it was beneath them to grant us entry to our own country, under the watchful eyes of several armed police officers who hadn't been properly trained to point their weapons somewhere safe when not using them.
I don't know where it all went wrong in the UK and the US, but the Italians are clearly doing something better than we are.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Speaking as a Canadian...I think we should tell those paranoid xenophobes to go fuck themselves.
Jean Chrétien had a lot of flaws, but at least he had the balls to tell the Americans to stop pushing us around.
If they are concerned about passenger security then they can damn well set up more of those "you're guilty until proven innocent" security-theatre checkpoints on their own soil and search people getting off the plane. Hell, they can even build special security airports at the borders to inspect people's shoes and water bottles.
(Sad to think that would probably be a better use of their funding than most of the stupid crap they've wasted their money on in the last 9 years)
Go ahead and mod me down American nationalist zealots ... I have karma to burn and I'm tired of putting up with America's bullshit.
[/rant]
Come play free flash games on Kongregate!
The US isn't the world's superpower?
Name another state that can project tens to hundreds of thousands of troops across the planet and fight for eight years.
Name another state that has more than three aircraft carriers.
Name another state that has more than ten aircraft carrier battlegroups.
Name another state with more than half of the top 500 super computers - http://www.top500.org/stats/list/34/countries
The United States has a list of strengths no other nation or union of nations possesses. Russia has the natural resources, military technology and nukes but not the industrial base and ability to project power. While the US got involved with Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan while bolstering South Korea, Israel and Kuwait, Russia was bogged down in Chechnya.
The EU has the industrial might and military technology and a good number of nukes, but little ability to project power and no political will to do so. Only the UK and France regularly use offensive military operations, but their militaries are a fraction of the US. The UK has maybe 3 division equivalents while France has 2.
China has older industrial might, older military technology and some nukes, but like Russia and the EU and everyone else can't project power. Going across the Straights of Taiwan will be the biggest thing China could do and even in the next 20 years, thats iffy.
I am an American who opted to move to the UK and I was in no way asked to give up my citizenship and when I did get my citizenship I did so because I get to have my US and UK citizenship and now I have access to work anywhere in the US or EU which is rather handy! Perhaps things were different for you, I do know immigration laws change over time but for at least the last 10 years you could have both citizenships in the UK.
Being a writer you don't even need a work permit as long as you don't intend to do work outside of your field. http://www.skillclear.co.uk/permitfree.asp
I would have said the other places are probably the same but to be honest some countries are getting tired of their people being treated like shit when going to the US so they're returning the favour and I don't blame them to be honest.
That sort of attitude is exactly why the US is not a superpower any more, but hasn't noticed it yet. You assume that a big military is what matters. How stereotypically egotistical!
Where has US military power got it in recent years? It has toppled a government in a far away land, at a vast cost to its economy, not to mention losing hundreds of military personnel and posting hundreds of thousands away from their families for extended periods.
Meanwhile, the US remains the world's biggest polluter and US citizens are more addicted to cars than anyone else. And yet, the US has relatively limited natural resources, and is obviously not immune to any negative effects on the environment.
The US used to be a centre of serious scientific research a few years ago, with a brain drain effect on other leading nations. Now the brain drain is reversing: people who went over to the US a few years ago are coming back home, and we're grabbing some of the top people from the US instead.
The US has a population where more people believe in divine creation than evolution, and US politics is heavily influenced by the religious right.
At a more basic level of education, while the CIA World Factbook may claim a literacy rate of 99% for the US, other studies question the effective reading skills of as much as half of the adult population. Likewise, the US increasingly lags the best nations in surveys of basic mathematical skills.
I have had many discussions on Slashdot with American citizens proud of their nation's economic power, and confident of how much better the US economy was doing because of things like lower holiday allowances and fewer safeguards for employees. I think we can pretty much see that particular house of cards for what it always was at this point, and everything from US stock and housing markets to the value of the US dollar are being punished by just about everyone else in the world accordingly.
Looking at more elementary economic factors, what does the US actually make any more? Fundamentally, quality of life in a healthy economy depends on being able to produce useful products and provide useful services. You don't get points in the long run if all you do is "manage" things and provide "financial services" and other secondary details.
So if you're from the US and you still think you're a superpower, knock yourself out. Just please don't then complain in 20 years, when you don't have the resources to run your military any more, and it wouldn't matter if you did because you couldn't afford to pay the soldiers and sailors and airmen, and it wouldn't matter if you could because you wouldn't have enough skilled and educated people to keep the equipment up-to-date and operational.
Meanwhile, more enlightened nations, having educated their populations to increasingly high standards, advanced their understanding of science and engineering to design newer, better products, used their practical skills and natural resources to manufacture those products, paid attention to the world around them, developed mutually beneficial agreements with other nations to further all of these goals, and built their economies around these values, will be too polite to laugh (too much) at what's left of the US and the ignorance and blind faith that brought them down.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Some factual errors there kiddo
What does the United States make anymore?
Software
BZZTT! Wrong! Well, kinda wrong. If we're talking about commercial software, then you kinda have this one right - Apple for example. But Microsoft has its pony everywhere right now, especially in india (don't believe me? check out the last names in the 'about' box. How many of those are american?)
And then we have open-source, which again is all over the place.
Even games are made almost equally or less in the US than they used to be. MMO's are koreas pony. Ubisoft Montreal, DICE (Sweden).
Aircraft
Will skip this one, since i don't have the sufficient knowledge
Microprocessors
BZZZT! Wrong again!
Sure, intel is US-based. But the best fabs they have is Jerusalem based as far as i know. AMD/ATi is fabless and uses TSMC. Pretty much anyone who isn't intel is using TSMC or something in the likes of those, because making or mainatining a fab in the US is too expensive. Check it out - pretty much all of the components of this computer are made in Asia (CPU - Malaysia, RAM - China, LCD - china, and so on..). The only US thing about is the "Design by Apple in California" text..
Automobiles
Hahahah! Maybe from the perspective from a US consumer, since you all drive hummers and SUVs there. And is GM even still making cars? Like, NORMAL cars? Right now Daewoo is making cars with Chevy brand. How low is that? The rest of the world enjoys the comfort, safety and economy of japanese (toyota, honda) and european (renault, volksvagen, audi..) cars.
Food
If your country cannot even provide food for its own populace, its in for some deep shit. Take a look at some african nations right now for an example. This is NOT a saving grace of ANY kind.
Btw, this was not meant as a flame, but i guess it went the rant-way. Whatever, i got karma to burn, and some Americans here are overdue for their wake up.