Best Buy Abandoning "Optimization" Service?

ddillman writes "According to The Consumerist, Best Buy is apparently dropping some of its 'optimization' services, and will instead provide the 'Best Buy Software Installer,' a new tool that the company says will 'radically simplify how you set up and customize your new PC or upgrade an existing one.' Translation: instead of you paying Best Buy to delete trialware from your new PC, Best Buy will get paid by software makers to try to get you to install it. A page on the Best Buy web site states that the new installation tool will be available January 17th, and 'gives you choices and options to configure your computer, and saves you time by making it easy to discover new software, then download and install with a single click.' According to an alleged internal Best Buy document obtained by a technology blog, Best Buy stands to make an extra $5 per PC just by including BBSI."

Comments

Opportunity

[conureman]

Great chance for noobs to try removing crap until something breaks, and then see if they got a usable "recovery disc" with their OS. That's how I got started with computers.

Re:Opportunity

[rotide]

I hate to bring cars into this (obligatory car analogy?) but it's kind of like saying that it's an opportunity to become a mechanic if the new car you buy needs a lot of "under the hood" tweaking to get to run correctly. Obviously, you can always tweak anything you buy to make it better (aftermarket parts) but the thing should be street worthy straight out of the box.

Some people don't want to be mechanics, they just want the damn thing to work after you pay lots of money for it. If they wanted to put in the effort they would have bought a kit car (newegg or other such a la carte setup) and built it themselves.

I dare say that those who visit a store such as best buy to get a computer (laptops not included, can't do much about those proprietary pieces of *grumble*) generally need a lot of hand holding. You really can't expect the people who fall into that demographic to be the kinds who want to put in a ton of effort.

Re:Opportunity

[Jurily]

Great chance for noobs to try removing crap until something breaks

Except the "noobs" don't want that. They want to play games, watch porn and get on with their lives.

Re:Opportunity

[Adambomb]

Except the "noobs" don't want that. They want to play games, watch porn and get on with their lives.

Then wonder why their computer is getting slow, and eventually think "i should just buy a new one".

Re:Opportunity

[poetmatt]

I still am amazed if that document is true about the $5 just to put it on people's PCs. This is marginally better than "Forced optimization" until people realize they're probably charging extra just to put this best buy installer on the pc.

I am not 100%, but I'll bet there's a charge for "setting up the best buy installer".

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Great chance for noobs to try removing crap until something breaks, and then see if they got a usable "recovery disc" with their OS. That's how I got started with computers.

Actually you have it backwards. The PCs are going to come from he OEM with no crapware pre-loaded on it, then Best Buy puts their installer software on it so that when you first boot the PC you get to go through a bunch of menus and decide what crapware you want installed. For a technically savvy customer this would be a good thing, as their PC would be de-crappified from the word go. Of course, those people don't buy at Best Buy, so in reality you'll get newbs who don't know what they want/need from what they don't and who will select "install every piece of crap you can find" as their option. That's how BB expects to get $5 more per PC from them. Then they'll get calls to the Geek Squad to pay for de-crappification service on top of it. It's a double win for them.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

If all they want is play games, they can buy a game console, or if they want to watch porn, they can buy a dvd/blu-ray player, and if they want to get on with their lives, they can find a gf/bf and don't waste time on chair.

Re:Opportunity

[joebagodonuts]

... they just want the damn thing to work after you pay lots of money for it.

I couldn't agree more. I'd like to see a way of quantifying this type of pain and aggravation (dealing with pre-installed trialware/crapware) into the cost of a PC.

Re:Opportunity

[nine-times]

I hate to bring cars into this (obligatory car analogy?) but it's kind of like saying that it's an opportunity to become a mechanic if the new car you buy needs a lot of "under the hood" tweaking to get to run correctly.

The problem with the car analogy is that, with computers, there isn't as great a divide between "using" and "maintaining". Though few people do as much as installing their own car stereos or even changing their own oil, most people install software on their computer at some point. The skills of installing or uninstalling applications and moving/copying files are central to maintaining a computer, but they're also part of a normal user's repertoire.

Though I fully understand that most people don't want to know the ins and outs of computer repair, I do advise that all computer users learn to back up their files, reformat the hard drive, and install their system from scratch. With modern operating systems, it's not even a difficult process, and if you don't know how to do that much, then I don't know how you could be sure you're backing up everything you need to.

All users should know how to back up their own systems, at least. If I had to compare computers to car repair, I wouldn't compare system backup and reinstallation of the OS to something like replacing an engine. It'd be more like learning how to control a skid, or maybe knowing how to change a tire.

Re:Opportunity

[trum4n]

I would be willing to bed 3 internets that they will come with crapware anyway, then just install more as "security updates."

Re:Opportunity

[Jurily]

Why should they have to learn when they can solve it with money? It keeps the economy going.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh*

I cannot condone the use of pornography, but since I'm posting anonymously I'll just go ahead and say that maybe safe porn will be one of Ubuntu's main features? If it boots up fast and it gets you online securely.. *shrug* If someone gets themselves in trouble online by looking at porn on Windows, my advice is going to be.. ditch Windows.

Re:Opportunity

[hairyfeet]

Funny, I got my first Windows PC (A 486DX running Win3.1) because the guy that had it owed me $100 and had gotten it full of malware and didn't know how to fix it. He figured it was a good excuse to lose the debt and at the same time give him a reason to shell out nearly $3K! on a brand new P100Mhz to play...was Heretic or Hexen first? Ehhh one of the two.

I got into doing PC repair for a living when I stopped by my local shop to score some RAM sticks and heard the boss cussing his brains out. He got stuck with a truckload of Gateway Astro from some guy that owed him a grand, and while they all had restore discs no OS was installed and it refused to take the restore discs. I told him "why don't you just use a standard Win98 disc?" and he swore to me because of the funky USB everything on those it couldn't be done. I bet him the RAM sticks I wanted I could do it, and after the Win98 install simply stuck in the restore discs and installed the drivers manually. He handed me the sticks and said "Grab a seat, there are 40 more of those in the back". I ended up being "the scary biker guy in the back that does great work" for 5 years. It was funny to hear little old ladies go "is the scary biker guy here?"

But back to the topic at hand, the problem with Worst Buy (other than they suck of course) and these other groups that offer "optimization" is they don't actually understand the customer. I too offer optimization, and my customers love it and talk about me like I walk on water. The secret? The average customer does NOT want a faster PC! I repeat, they do NOT want a faster PC they want an easier to use PC. So what I do is basically set them up a "toaster". Any customer that pays the $55 for optimization gets a PC that autoupdates, has AV set to autoscan and autoupdate, it automatically cleans the registry and temp files, defrags itself, has all the codecs (thanks to K-Lite Mega) installed, flash, Java, .NET, Silverlight, all installed, Firefox with ABP and ForecastFox installed, and finally Go Open Office and GNUCash.

When I'm done all the customer has to do is "flip a switch and go" and THAT, not squeezing an extra couple of notches in some benchmark, is what I've found the customers REALLY want in a PC. Unlike my old boss I don't get folks coming back in a month or two infected like a Bangkok whore, but I have found the referrals more than make up for that. Give folks a good value, let them know you care about more than just their wallet, and they will go out of their way to brag on you and send business your way. Worst Buy doesn't care how bad your experience is, once they have your money and that is why they have a bad rep. Well that and the shitty service, pervs that go through your files looking for porn, geeks that don't know the right end of a screwdriver....

Re:Opportunity

[Adambomb]

Because thats a broken window fallacy, by investing in new computers they wouldn't need if their current system was properly maintained they're expending money on something that could otherwise be used for the purchase of something else they do not already have, or even invest it (even if its only to the tune of a small government bond or guaranteed interest certificate style investment).

This holds double for items that have a tendancy to either be primarily imported or made primarily with imported parts.

Re:Opportunity

[RobertM1968]

Your sentiment is correct on it's face... but fact is, nowadays, people (for the most part) do not pay "lots of money for" computers. They pay near nothing, and part of the costs are subsidized by the crapware that comes on the machines. After all, how much do you think it costs to make that $299 laptop at BestBuy (hardware and OS and such)?

Re:Opportunity

[obarthelemy]

I find it actually easier to build from scratch and install from scratch than to try and figure out what Dell components are standard or not, what leads the PSU has... and get rid of all the junkware. It's cheaper, too, strangely.

I've taught a couple of friends to assemble their PCs too. The key is Adamesque: Don't panic ! If you don't try fancy coolers or other things, you won't have to touch a jumper, just be careful to lay out everything, find where it fits without having to force it, and spend half an hour calmly doing all the cables. A bit harder than Lego, but easier than Mecano or model building. And then the Windows install is fully automatic, and the Linux one should be, if you've carefully chosen your components.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Buy a chinese scooter, they always need tweaking to run right. Look up Lance. Hence, I don't buy them.

Re:Opportunity

[ivan256]

Every car I've ever bought new has needed an immediate ad-ware removal (bumper sticker & license plate frame).

Almost all of them, in my opinion, also needed an immediate brake pad replacement as well. Most people are satisfied with the crap that comes on there from the factory, though, even though they spend the first 20k miles scraping gunk off their wheels from the crappy pads, without even getting very good performance in exchange.

Many people buy a new car, and promptly shell out for "dealer options", such as rust proofing, scotch guard, that newish transparent film stuff that is the new version of a car bra, extended warranties, etc...

Really... Buying a new car isn't much different from buying a computer.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad idea. First, let me tell you that I work at best buy. Second, let me tell you that not everyone working here even realizes what optimization is. So doing things like "auto-updating" software in which might break compatibility with other software or just generally cause issues is not a good idea because hardly anyone on the sales floor would recognize or be able to easily explain what "might" happen. And if this DID happen, then they would come back and the consumerist would go off on this aspect of best buy as well. It WILL happen if this were to come into effect, no question.

Also, the current method of "optimization" is a disk anyway that's written by our own programmers. I fail to see how Best Buy would all of a sudden get "Best Buy will get paid by software makers to try to get you to install it.". Now, if this were to come into effect, what I believe we'll see is a slimmed down version of the current discs the Geek Squad uses with a much simpler GUI.

Re:Opportunity

[DigiShaman]

Funny, I got my first Windows PC (A 486DX running Win3.1) because the guy that had it owed me $100 and had gotten it full of malware and didn't know how to fix it.

I call BS on that! Malware/Spyware didn't start becoming a problem until around the year 2000. At that time, most consumer PCs were still running Win98, 98SE, and the occasional WinME. It was usually bundled with shareware programs (Limewire and other P2P apps) and downloadable games. The other vector for getting them was when using Internet Explorer.

A few things about Win3.1 and Malware/Spyware doesn't add up...

1. Win3.1 home machines had between 4 and 8 MB of RAM maximum. I suppose you could add more, but SIMMs were expensive in those days. I seriously doubt a single instance of Spyware running could fit in that space (let alone along with the OS).

2. Malware/Spyware was coded for the Win9x shell and created entries to the registry hive. Win 3.1 did not have a registry hive nor was the GUI (Explorer) coded the same. Also, the installers were not cross OS compatible between Win 3.1 and Win9x to my knowledge.

3. Almost every Win 3.1 box on the internet used Netscape. At that time, you couldn't get Malware/Spyware over the internet.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

You're fucking joking right? Jesus Christ I hope so.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

You just love trolling don't you AC?

Re:Opportunity

[MindlessAutomata]

I cannot condone the use of pornography

I can.

Re:Opportunity

[BitZtream]

So basically, you crap up their machine with a bunch of shit they don't need and/or will have a hard time using since its not consistent with any other app they use.

Good job, you've recreated the same kind of crap setup you claim to be fixing.

Re:Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, sure. If you really DO work at Best Buy, then you don't belong here. /. is for real geeks that actually know how computers work. Not the pseudo geeks that dress like the stereotype in an effort to part unsuspecting consumers with as much of their money as possible.

As a qualifier, I worked for Best Buy several years ago for about 2 months. This was JUST before taking over Geek Squad. I was a seasonal employee in the tech dept. It was a second job to afford a new apartment and furniture. My tech knowledge was so far above all the other techs that it would have been hysterical had it not been so pathetic. As an example, I had to teach most of the other techs how master and slave on IDE worked.

Back then Best Buy was all about how much money they could weasel out of people, and nothing seems to have changed.

Re:Opportunity

[quanticle]

I certainly don't think it costs anywhere near $299. The chips are all standard models that have entered mass production. The operating system license is being subsidized by Microsoft. The real cost is assembly. Do you really think it costs that much to assemble a netbook?

No, the reason that BestBuy is interested in this is that it can't add as much markup to a $299 netbook as a $599 laptop. Therefore, any source of additional margin is a godsend for them.

Re:Opportunity

[RobertM1968]

LoL... I think I said that! ;-)

Re:Opportunity

[hairyfeet]

So in other words YOU sir are part of the problem! You know how many Best Buy computers I've had darken my doors with NO Windows updates since it left the factory, a shitty 30 day trail of Norton crapware, expired of course, and more viruses than a Bangkok whore? Too may to count!

Nowadays with zero day exploits you are frankly a fool if you let a Windows machine loose without having the latest patches and autoupdates running. And those Norton trialwares do nothing but bog the machine down and give the customer a false sense of security. When I am done everything is automatic, the user doesn't NEED to know about Windows updates, or how many days are left on the AV, or whether or not their butts are just hanging in the breeze for some script kiddie to pwn them.

I'm sure corporate policy has your hands tied, which is why I wouldn't work best Buy for all the tea in China. I've had friends work there and all I heard was horror stories about employees that didn't know what they were doing, Dilbert style policies more concerned with wringing maximum $$$ from the customer instead of making the customer safe, etc.

So I'm sorry, but if you let any machine leave your door without AT LEAST Windows Updates set to automatic then you are just setting up the customer to get infected, and that is just wrong. I treat customers like I would want a member of my family treated, and do everything in my power to give them a safe and easy computing experience.

Re:Opportunity

[hairyfeet]

Let me guess, you're the type that lets them loose with an unpatched Windows with no AV? No I do not put trialware, or crapware, or warez, or any of that other crap. a good 90% of mine is set up to use plain old Windows Task Scheduler to run the app at the appropriate time. But you really have to set up a lot of stuff for the clueless or you might as well just install the malware yourself and save them the effort, because they WILL get pwned otherwise.

Every machine that leaves my shop, whether they pay for optimization or not, has a fully patched Windows installed, along with AV and Firefox. Anything less is just setting up the customer to fail. if they pay for optimization they get the registry and temp files set to clean every three days, the hard drives set to defrag weekly at a schedule they choose, all of the codecs and apps necessary to have what is considered a "normal" browsing experience, Flash, Java, Silverlight, etc. And finally I finish up with Go Open Office (with Quickstarter disabled) and GNUCash, so that every task the average Joe uses their PC for is ready to go.

Oh and I use Ninite to give them all the basics with NO toolbars. I have never let a machine leave my shop with a single toolbar. But in the age of zero day exploits most folks simply don't have the skills needed to keep themselves safe, and as I said my customers talk like I can walk on water so I must be doing something right. Their PCs are malware free, take care of themselves, and most importantly let them do what THEY bought a PC to do, instead of spending all their time trying to figure things out. If you call making a PC easier for the common man/woman a "crap setup" BitZtream, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. But it sures makes my customers happy, and that is what counts in my book.

Re:Opportunity

[quanticle]

Sorry, I think my sarcasm meter was broken earlier. :)

Re:Opportunity

[Kleppy]

People like this also come into the store with $400 in their pocket looking to buy the $399 PC only to forget taxes and services like this. By the time they're done they bought 1/2 the PC they were looking at and all the services with it. What's a surge protector? OMG! I need paper with my printer? Should I buy ink? What's the warranty? Does it come with office? What is spyware/adware? Should I REALLY be afraid of Viruses? My Kid wants to play 3D games. Does this burn Discs? Where do I buy CD-R CDs? Most of the time, I gave them the information they needed and told them to come back when they could afford to buy the stuff "they needed" to make a better PC experience. Some of the time they got financing to do so. Some of the time they came back. Sometimes they had more money than sense. As a tech I did the services too and mostly got the same questions, and they were more apt to listen to me, likely because I was wearing a black shirt (later White) and not a salesman in a blue shirt.

Re:Opportunity

[Sir_Lewk]

Malware/Spyware didn't start becoming a problem until around the year 2000

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA [breaths] AHAHAHAAHAA....

Ok, now that I've had my laugh, get the fuck off my lawn.

Re:Opportunity

[DigiShaman]

http://authentium.blogspot.com/2007/05/short-history-of-spyware.html

Now, STFU!

Re:Opportunity

[Sir_Lewk]

Bitch please:

1) blogspot. oooh, your sources have me trembling.
2) spyware is not the only sort of malware.
3) this party most certainly did not get started in the early 2000's

Re:Opportunity

[DigiShaman]

Malware and Viri are not really the same thing. While it is true that Malware can contain (and spread) Viri, it is highly unlikely you will ever find a Virus that installs Malware. Also, Malware is presented to the user a legitimate program to be installed.

Viri on the other hand just needs to be executed once (EXE, COM files etc) for the payload to be installed automatically and without the computer users knowledge.

Like I said, Malware/Spyware only really started becoming a problem in 2000. And I stand behind that statement.

Re:Opportunity

[Sir_Lewk]

Please, you are just making yourself look silly at this point.

Viruses are widely considered to be a subset of malware (malware literally meaning "malicious software"). From wikipedia:

"Malware includes computer viruses, worms, trojan horses, most rootkits, spyware, dishonest adware, crimeware and other malicious and unwanted software"

You might have a different definition of malware, but that definition is pretty much your own. The definition to you seem to be presenting for "malware" seems more in line with "trojans", programs which pretend to be something they are not (you know, like the trojan horse of mythology... no, who am I kidding, you probably don't know).

If you were just claiming that spyware alone only started to become a real issue in the 2000's, then you would have a point. Please note however that the original poster never mentioned spyware at all, but rather just the generic term 'malware'. In a feeble attempt to get some modpoints, you attacked his statement with the intent to contradict. Not a terrible plan, since counterpoints to posts with lots of modpoints also tend to get lots of modpoints themselves. Unfortunetly you know a lot less than you think you know, and you just ended up making yourself look like a fool.

What is disturbing at this point, is that you haven't even bothered to look any of these terms up yet.

After being found out they drop it but now what wi

[Joe The Dragon]

After being found out they drop it but now what will they do with systems? bill you $20 to put on windows updates? and they will still pre install them be for selling systems and only have systems with that added service in stock?

No they didn't!

[Anonymous Coward]

What actually happened is that they ran the optimization service against the geeksquad and it deleted itself in a massive explosion that killed everyone, which solved the problem.

$5 per PC

[rudy_wayne]

Best Buy will make an extra $5 per PC? How many PCs do they sell in the course of a year? This would just barely cover the wages for one of their Geek Squad dorks.

Re:$5 per PC

[Darkness404]

Um, my guess would be millions. For a lot of people, Best Buy is the only physical retailer selling computers that have decent specs at a decent price. Yeah, some people will buy things online, but many times you can find pre-built systems cheaper at Best Buy than at any other retailer online or otherwise. It is really, really hard to beat a $300 laptop that does everything an average person wants while having a decent sized screen (15 inch) and decent sized keyboard.

Re:$5 per PC

[Clover_Kicker]

The margins on PCs are ridiculously thin.

That's why manufacturers have resorted to bundling crapware, and now apparently retailers as well.

Re:$5 per PC

[acedotcom]

well thats the thing and always has been. there is no profit in computer sales. i worked at BB for three years and learned that every time i sold a computer. it was always about the accessories and services. One time i got dragged back into in office and given a warning about my salesmanship because I helped a customer make their computer package better. They had bought $2000 worth of computer and $2500 of accessories (printers, cables, ink...all kinds of stuff). however i got yelled at because i swapped a piece of "learning place" software for a router, they had the same dollar value, but of course the router was less profit. But that wasn't the issue the REAL problem was that it lowered our stores daily sales numbers when applied to other Best Buy stores in the area (not against competing stores).

I was instructed time and time again to "walk" customers if they weren't getting additional accessories or services, and at least once a day i did. So even though we weren't "on commission", something we were told to tell every customer, that didnt matter because we treated everyone like we were.

i know these stories are told every time an article about Best Buy pops up, i just wish more people could hear them. It has never been about providing "exceptional products and services in a user friendly environment", it has ALWAYS been about the fact that BB loses money when they sell computers without attachments.

Re:$5 per PC

[hairyfeet]

The problem with that is the laptop will be a smoldering hunk of plastic two minutes after the warranty expires, which kinda kills the savings. Working PC repair I have had to deal with MANY Worst Buy and Staples "$300 specials" and a good 7 out of 10 on the desktop and probably closer to 9 out of 10 on the laptops I have to tell the customer their best course of action is to shitcan it.

Why is that? Let me count the ways they bone you on those "$300 specials": Laptops- often they will use desktop chips in the laptops, and while Intel has thankfully killed the Netburst (although as late as last year I saw a Staples special with a netburst Pentium in a laptop) even the core desktop chips are WAY too hot for the small plastic laptop cases with those pissy little fans, which equal burnt chips, melted wires, just a mess. Speaking of fans, they screw you hard on the fans for both the desktop and laptop. Shitty fans that don't cool in badly designed cases is a recipe for disaster. Again fried chips, cooked HDDs, just nasty. Shitty plastic and substandard parts. I don't even have to explain what is wrong with that. Shitty heatsinks, again no explanation needed. Starving the OS, ala "Vista Capable". Thrashed drives, overheating, sluggish performance, and that is without the crapware.

Hell I could go on all day probably, but you get the picture. Those "$300 specials" are the most bottom of the barrel scraping junk they can throw together and frankly if it lasts 90 days past the warranty it is a miracle. I would recommend an off lease box before I would recommend a Worst Buy or Staples "$300 special" as they are 90% of the time anything but. Once in a blue moon you can a good deal on last year's model when it comes time to roll out the next one, but even then you would probably get a better deal just buying directly from the manufacturer. Just about every PC I have seen from Staples and Worst Buy that was a "$300 special" was nothing but E-waste.

Re:$5 per PC

[MightyMartian]

When I'm in a big box store like Best Buy, I just politely tell the salesperson to take a walk. Of course, I rarely buy from such stores, tending to go through a few trusted online sources that treat me fairly, and keep the background sales buzz to a minimum.

Re:$5 per PC

[RobertM1968]

CompUSA was much the same... but more so with printers... if you sold a printer, it BETTER go out the door with a USB cable and a set of ink cartridges.

Now some people would say "Well, duh, they need a USB cable since they dont come with printers anymore" but the simple fact is most people dont come in to buy their first printer, so most already have a printer cable, and a large portion of those people have a USB cable (while the rest had parallel).

But again, same reasons... $0-$5 a printer doesnt make the store much money.

Funny thing is, if the merchants made a concerted effort to sell the stuff at slightly higher margin, these issues wouldnt arise. Instead, in their zeal to compete with each other and drive each other out of business, they've shot themselves in the foot as they've decreased their profit margin on the stuff to near zero. Yeah, the Internet helped with that... but even there, Internet prices are so low to compete with the store where you wont be paying shipping.

Re:$5 per PC

[Anonymous Coward]

But read TFA again, they're dropping a service that keeps the Geek Squad dorks employed, so count on their labor expenses to drop too.

Re:$5 per PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, I have a much worse story that happened not too long ago. (tl;dr at bottom)

For me, when I first started, I was told to be the person's friend and to help them with what they really want. Well, of course not everyone NEEDS or even should get services attached, but if we don't sell them, we get "talked" to. I saw the store and sales floor slowly going from helping people to trying to attach services and black tie (the big one, yet not much of an advantage when looking at desktops...).

Anyway, the real horror of this story comes with a couple buying a family computer. At first they were interested and looking at a $800 computer. After settling for a more suitable $510 computer (because we are in a transition period of old/new computers, so the best ones for them we didn't carry and they wanted it NOW. Happens.) and getting services (advanced security and performance, 1 year of antivirus, and software install (this one made me feel bad because it was $30 to install a simple piece of software, but after explaining how easy it would be for them to do it themselves, they just wanted us to do it. The reason was they were looking at a $1400 to walk out the door with everything, but I brought them down to a good $1000). They also got accessories in which we make some good margin (rocketfish). Yes, besides the software install, I felt this family needed this.

Here's the horrible part. The couple needed an email address for the antivirus. So I would set them up with a simple temporary gmail account. Now, I can't go into the back geek squad room (the only computers that didn't have gmail or any other nice online email service blocked) so I asked my manager to do it because my geek squad buddy was busy as hell up at the counter. So my manager (not knowing much about computers and ALWAYS looking at the bottom line and how we compare to other stores) saw that I didn't attach black tie (even though they got $150+ in services and a some accessories that we make nice margin on) and said I should charge them $15 for creating an email address.

tl;dr - charged $15 for email address creation in which took about a minute and a half to create. I felt like total shit after that.

Re:$5 per PC

[Darkness404]

I don't really expect this laptop to last that long, but in general, cheap laptops have served me a lot better than expensive ones. For example, a few years ago I spent all my birthday money to buy a nice $700 Dell laptop, it was pretty good for its time (512 MB of RAM, early Pentium M, nice case design, and a high-res screen) and ran fast... until 6 months into using it the power cord broke, not much of a problem, I sent it in and they sent me a new one. About 3 months after that, the motherboard died. Thankfully I had the extended warranty and they replaced it. About 3 months after that, the replacement power cord they got me broke. When I called, they said that my warranty had expired and they had discontinued my laptop but they gave me the name of a third party supplier of power cords and told me the exact name of what I needed so I bought it and the cord worked for about a month. Then when I came home one day after letting it charge for an hour I smelled a burning smell and all the plastic on the tip of the cord had melted and my motherboard died. As my warrenty was up I just said "screw it" salvaged all the parts I could and used my aging desktop for a while until I bought one of the first EEE PCs and then later this Toshiba. Even if this Toshiba (which is now 6 months old) breaks in a few more months of use and I replace it with another $300 laptop, I still saved $100 compared to when I bought a "good" laptop.

Re:$5 per PC

[darien]

Yes, poor build quality can catch cause problems, but a tenner says you can't provide a link to a laptop on either the Best Buy or Staples website that uses a desktop CPU.

Re:$5 per PC

[Hadlock]

Instead, in their zeal to compete with each other and drive each other out of business, they've shot themselves in the foot as they've decreased their profit margin on the stuff to near zero

The real problem is that computers are a commodity item, and they're trying to sell commodities at retail with a luxury twist. A couple of grocers can get away with selling organically grown corn, but everywhere else, corn is corn, and comes in a cardboard or wood box on a shelf. You can try and sell butter and salt and pepper next to the corn, but as a shareholder, if you're expecting tons of growth from the corn sector, either you're an idiot, or you were lied to. Sadly, Best Buy shareholders are probably largely the former.

Re:$5 per PC

[nerdonamotorcycle]

Funny thing is, if the merchants made a concerted effort to sell the stuff at slightly higher margin,

Colluding with your competitors to set minimum sale prices or minimum profit margins is usually called "price fixing" and, with a handful of narrowly-drawn exceptions, it's illegal in the US,and probably most other places in the First World as well. Or did I completely misread the intent of your post?

Re:$5 per PC

[Bengie]

Since all Vista/Win7 DVDs are the same now, I just download my MSDN image and use our keys to install.

Re:$5 per PC

[Pigskin-Referee]

i know these stories are told every time an article about Best Buy pops up, i just wish more people could hear them. It has never been about providing "exceptional products and services in a user friendly environment", it has ALWAYS been about the fact that BB loses money when they sell computers without attachments.

Exactly what is it you do not understand. A simple course in Business 101 would have taught you that a corporation has to make money to stay solvent, which enables it to pay its employees (you) and possibly return a dividend to its share holders. If you want to do social work, find employment with the Salvation Army.

Re:$5 per PC

[acedotcom]

wow that was kind of an asshole response.

you can assume you didnt read anything else i read, so just STFU.

Re:$5 per PC

[RobertM1968]

Yes, I didnt state it very well. I was trying to say that if they stopped the price wars between each other, they wouldnt be in this boat. But each always has to be the cheapest - until there is little to no margin left.

Still not clearly stating what I mean... but I need more coffee, so that's the best I can do for now. ;-)

Re:$5 per PC

[Pigskin-Referee]

wow that was kind of an asshole response.

you can assume you didnt read anything else i read, so just STFU.

"you can assume"? What am I assuming? "didnt"? Aren't we missing an apostrophe there? "i" is usually capitalized when used as a first person singular in a sentence.

Obviously, I am dealing with an intellectual moron, so I won't bother to respond to any more of your intellectually deficient babble.

Re:$5 per PC

[acedotcom]

wow... a typo...really? thats the best you can do. so i am done here.

Re:$5 per PC

[jp10558]

Well, a Dell $700 laptop is decidedly *NOT* a "good" laptop. Try a Macbook or Thinkpad T series... Of course, disposable laptops can make sense for certain use patterns, and they seem to fit yours. Nothing consumer line, especially a Dell IME, is "good". Build it yourself for a desktop, buy business model laptop or desktops or go disposable (buy one a year)...

Re:$5 per PC

[jp10558]

I'm pretty sure that's against the MSDN license... Hey, it's one of the pitfalls of software(and our legal environment), you've got to follow the license, however stupid it may be. You can only use retail disks with retail keys, VLK disks with VLK keys etc... Of course you *can* ignore the license, but at that point, I've got to wonder why not just go all the way illegal and pirate it to save the money?

Thanks for the warning

[ackthpt]

of the new Virus.

No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

In related news, if you buy big-ticket items from Best Buy, you get what you deserve.

I used to feel bad about the way they take advantage of people who don't understand electronics, but then I realized those people don't understand anything about electronics because they make no effort to. I can't be bothered to feel bad about people who choose to not even attempt to inform themselves about $1000+ purchases.

Re:No kidding

[Clover_Kicker]

$1K for a PC? What decade are you from?

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

$1K for a PC? What decade are you from?

PC

add: big LCD monitor

and then: Cheap shitty inkjet printer

Totals: ~$1,000

How many people buy just the box when they get a computer?

Re:No kidding

[Clover_Kicker]

The Canadian Best Buy website has at least 3 dozen PC + monitor bundles between $400 and $900, throw in another $50 for a printer.

I expect the US dollar would go even further.

The margins on this stuff are razor thin, or even a bunch of jerks like Best Buy wouldn't be resorting to bundling crapware for a measly $5/unit.

Re:No kidding

[dontmakemethink]

How many people buy just the box when they get a computer?

People who are upgrading from an obsolete computer but already have a decent monitor and accessories? Good LCD monitors have been out long enough to outlive a PC's 18-month built-in obsolescence. My monitors turned 4 last month, no desire to replace them yet. And a 4-year-old printer will probably outlast a new disposable one...

Interesting

[davebarnes]

"preinstalled on most PCs, except Dell and HP"
Wonder if they are going to install it on Macs.

suckers

[p51d007]

Other than needing a router, cable or something else on an emergency basis, you get what you pay for at BB. I watch in amazement when I hear someone purchasing a computer and the blue shirt drone is trying to force them into buying all the extra crap.

Re:suckers

[S-100]

There's not a big enough emergency in the world to get me to pay $79.95 for an HDMI cable at Best Buy. For emergency routers, external hard drives and such, I go to the 24-hour Wal-Mart SuperCenter. Always funny going up to the cashier at 3AM with milk, eggs and hard drives...

Re:suckers

[Darkness404]

Actually, I've compared prices and for a lot of things and Best Buy generally has some of the cheapest computers. For example, I am typing this on a Best Buy bought Toshiba that I picked up for $300, for a 15 inch screen, Celeron 900 CPU (at 2.2 ghz), 2 gigs of DDR2, a 160 GB HDD and 100% Linux compatability, its hard to beat it for the price if you are like me and are a student with minimal income. Yeah, for $100+ more you could get a really great laptop, but really, this laptop does everything I want, I can type all day on it without feeling strained (unlike a laptop) and runs all my programs just fine. And I just told them I don't want anything else and they didn't force it on me (not that I use my Windows partition anyways....).

Re:suckers

[Anonymous Coward]

I am typing this on a Best Buy bought Toshiba that I picked up for $300, for a 15 inch screen, Celeron 900 CPU (at 2.2 ghz), 2 gigs of DDR2, a 160 GB HDD and...

I can type all day on it without feeling strained (unlike a laptop)..

Your laptop isn't a laptop?

What will they think of next!

Re:suckers

[YrWrstNtmr]

For example, I am typing this on a Best Buy bought Toshiba that I picked up for $300, for a 15 inch screen, Celeron 900 CPU (at 2.2 ghz), 2 gigs of DDR2, a 160 GB HDD and 100% Linux compatability,

My son has that exact same one. Bought in August. It's in for a new HD right now.
The GeekSquad dude was surprisingly non-pushy about extra services and crap. When he asked about backups and reinstallation, "Nope, I just need a functioning hard drive". 'OK, come back Tuesday'.

Re:suckers

[superslacker87]

I bought my last laptop from Best Buy. It wasn't for me, it was for my wife. She's perfectly happy with all the crapware that's installed. I shudder at it. The computer I purchased for myself came from a military base and was too (probably) loaded with junk. I wouldn't know. I had wiped it before I even had a chance to read the Vista license agreement. Now that said system dual boots Windows 7 and Ubuntu. Not a single bit of crapware in sight on either one.

Oh, as for my wife's system, the only thing I did when she wasn't looking was remove Norton and put in Microsoft Security Essentials. She hasn't noticed a thing.

Re:suckers

[Darkness404]

Gah, I meant netbook.

Re:suckers

[eharvill]

That's why I love buying online and picking up at the store. Purchased an LCD TV for my parents for Christmas and didn't have to deal with anyone trying to push me to purchase an extended warranty, over-priced cables, TV stand, receiver, DirecTV service or anything. I probably could have saved $50 by purchasing from a reputable online store, but it was pretty darn convenient to pick it up that same day. I also got to laugh at the 50+ people in line buying stuff while I was in and out of the store in 10 minutes.

Re:suckers

[D Ninja]

Not a single bit of crapware in sight on either one.

Wait...you just finished saying Windows 7 was installed...

Ba dum tsh!

Thank you! I'll be here all night! Try the veal!

(P.S. I actually like Windows 7, but, the joke popped into my head, and I'm tired...)

Re:suckers

[stephanruby]

Best Buy has decent prices for the things consumers pay attention to, and indeed something like three years ago Best Buy stopped the insane upselling pressure they were putting their customers under, but buyer beware for the things that consumers don't initially pay attention to, or initially comparison shop on.

(Mon$ter Priced) cables, spare Lithium-Ion batteries, or returning/troubleshooting issues, those are where Best Buy will still try to screw you on. You don't have to take my word for it. Just dig up your last Best Buy receipt where you purchased a cable as well, and then compare it to the price you would have paid had you ordered it online through resellerratings.org or newegg.com.

Re:suckers

[BobMcD]

And, I might add, in the case of a true emergency, you could return (unused) things to Walmart with a lot less difficulty, while buying more milk, eggs, etc.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Best Buy Sucks

[Antisyzygy]

Having worked for Geek Squad one summer while in college, I can say that the services they offer are overpriced and not a good value. Management told me time and time again to sell more of their 300 dollar advanced diagnostics tests to people that were suffering from simple issues. They try to package everything into ridiculously priced "package deals". Meanwhile, we werent given the tools to solve many of the problems they claimed we could do, and also encouraged us to try to fix. Its a simple problem of idiotic management, over-zealous marketing, and crappy tools. Don't use Geek Squad, and dont use this stupid utility they are trying to push on everyone. I would bet its just another attem

Re:Best Buy Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I would bet its just another attem

Shit! The Geek Squad already got him!

Re:Best Buy Sucks

[ddillman]

It's hard to sell a $300 service package when a new computer is $300.

Re:Best Buy Sucks

[ddillman]

Not sure, as I don't iPhone at all. However, all of that crapware you see is there because back in the day, people were pissed that the new $2000+ computer they bought had no software, so they had to spend $1000 or more on that before they could do anything. Retailers like Best Buy made big deals with the PC makers and software companies to preload this junk so they could rightly advertise that the machine came ready to run with all of that software. Unfortunately, the software loaded was never top-shelf stuff like MS Office or Lotus 1-2-3 or Photoshop, but always cheap 3rd-party knockoffs, or at best, MS Works. Now people complained about the quantity of shovelware, and that it made the new computer slow, so retailers decided they could charge to remove it...? BTW, side note, MS Works was (IMNSHO) one of the better pieces of software ever to come from MS. It's only drawback was being made purposely incompatible with any other software. It did what 90% of people needed it to do, had a small footprint and was easy to learn and use.

Re:Best Buy Sucks

[jp10558]

I suppose it depends, but on my IBM Aptiva I got in 1995, it did come loaded with the full version of Lotus SmartSuite which included 1-2-3... It also (for some reason) came with MS Works. It was good in that I don't actually recall getting trialware except for the ISP links, but actually full version software. Then again, I suppose at $3500, they could throw in some software.

Buying from the likes of Best Buy

[Lonewolf666]

While it does not happen often, sometimes pre-built PCs actually have an attractive set of hardware. In that case, buying the thing and reinstalling the OS and the applications from scratch may be attractive. I remember a discount PC from the early 2000s that actually had components from reputable brands. A friend asked "can you recommend that?", I said yes and the PC actually worked fine for several years.

Of course, that requires a user that CAN do a reinstall if necessary. A DRM-free pirate version of your preferred software may also help ;-)

Best Buy's stance

[Anonymous Coward]

Geek Squad employee here, I read an internal document that said the complete opposite. I thought about making a copy for myself and taking it home, but I'm not quite that ballsy.

From that memo, it seems that Best Buy admits that there's not much of a speed boost in it, certainly not $40 worth, but they still justify it as a time-saving procedure. That is, if you're some CEO and have a shitload of money but little time, then you don't want to waste it uninstalling trials of NetZero and Microsoft Works (which we don't actually uninstall anymore, we just prevent it from starting up automatically, since some customers complained that their new computers came without the great software trials that HP/Sony/Toshiba advertised).

It didn't seem like they wanted to stop the service, although they DID remind everyone that optimizing more computers than are likely to be sold and then making customers pay for them even if they don't want it is illegal and a bait-and-switch. Which is great, because the managers here in a central North Carolina store were seriously considering optimizing 90% of stock and trying to get rich that way. Bastards.

App store?

[whoami9801]

Isn't this similar to the iPhone Apps store? No-one has a problem with it there. I know it's Best Buy and they suck and all but if this is done right it could streamline the installation of software onto computers. It could be the end of 8 o'clock on a saturday night panicked support calls when your parents have to take a plane in the morning and used the "system restore" feature to roll back from a minor problem they were having and reset the computer to factory... 1 click to re-install all the applications they had previously... I'm not saying that Best Buy is going to build an actual useful program. But they could.

Re:App store?

[ddillman]

Not sure, as I don't iPhone at all. However, all of that crapware you see is there because back in the day, people were pissed that the new $2000+ computer they bought had no software, so they had to spend $1000 or more on that before they could do anything. Retailers like Best Buy made big deals with the PC makers and software companies to preload this junk so they could rightly advertise that the machine came ready to run with all of that software. Unfortunately, the software loaded was never top-shelf stuff like MS Office or Lotus 1-2-3 or Photoshop, but always cheap 3rd-party knockoffs, or at best, MS Works. Now people complained about the quantity of shovelware, and that it made the new computer slow, so retailers decided they could charge to remove it...?

BTW, side note, MS Works was (IMNSHO) one of the better pieces of software ever to come from MS. It's only drawback was being made purposely incompatible with any other software. It did what 90% of people needed it to do, had a small footprint and was easy to learn and use.

hello

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you scan this document and put it somewhere online?

tl;dr proof or gtfo

Re:hello

[Anonymous Coward]

I have work today, I'll see if I can still find it (it was a hard copy, not a digital document). Although to be honest, I don't know how legitimate it will seem if there's a 12 hour delay between me saying it exists and having proof of it.

Re:hello

[mister_playboy]

I'll believe you.

Not too bad

[QA]

I purchased an HP from BB as a gift this past Christmas because I couldn’t build the same thing cheaper (i5, 8gbDDR3, wireless, 1TB, Nvidia, and 23” monitor under 1k CAN).

They attempted to sell me the optimization service first, then a printer, then an HDMI cable, then at the counter, the extended service plan. I’ll bet I burned half an hour of my time telling them to fuck off in a nice way.

The baby geek dude I had to deal with (all of 17 maybe) was just going through the motions, we both knew the score but there was a floor boss or something hovering around, so he had to do it.

The bitch at the checkout was relentless on the other hand. One of those obnoxious people that drank the company Kool Aid and spouted off every tag line she could remember. It was depressing.

Surprisingly I only had to clean off Symantec crap (shudder) and a few HP game demos and that’s it. It was really quite painless.

Shame I had to do it twicethe machine would BSOD every 5 minutes. It was instantly obvious that it was a memory issue so I ran the bios integrated mem test and boom, it found the problem..sort of.turns out it wasn’t the stick of ram because I swapped em around, it was a bad memory slot on the board.

Pete

No kidding they dropped it

[eples]

Yeah, no kidding they dropped the program. This type of fraud is called "bait and switch", and it is ILLEGAL.

Re:No kidding they dropped it

[dontmakemethink]

It's not bait and switch if they stop offering a service in favor of suggestive selling. If they claimed they still offered it that would be another thing, but since it came to our attention, obviously they're not hiding it.

Re:No kidding they dropped it

[eples]

Right, but BEFORE they dropped it, it was certainly bait and switch. Which is why they dropped it. Which is what I said.

Re:No kidding they dropped it

[jvberg]

It was never bait and switch. Ever. Not even a little. Read your own link...

Re:No kidding they dropped it

[Anonymous Coward]

To elaborate for the GP, the "optimization" service was installed on EVERY computer. You go in to buy the latest deal they're offering, and they hard sell you the service. You refuse, and they say that they're out of computers that don't have it. So, you can't get the deal as advertised... hence bait-and-switch.

Re:No kidding they dropped it

[BobMcD]

It was never bait and switch. Ever. Not even a little. Read your own link...

How do you figure? The practice, as I understand it, was:

1) Advertise a unit
2) Customize a (large) portion of those units
3) Sell both, until the uncustomized runs out
4) Refuse to sell the customized units at the advertised price, instead refusing the sale or referring them to another store

Bait - Advertised unit, advertised price
Switch - Customized unit, higher than advertised price

Sweet

[Anonymous Coward]

At the local computer shop I work at, we make a killing cleaning up after Geek Squad's mess for their disgruntled ex-customers. Keep it up BB! Thanks to you business is booming for those of us who actually care about the work we do instead of just shaking customers upside down by their ankles.

Re:Britney Spears analogy...

[JaneTheIgnorantSlut]

Who?

Re:Britney Spears analogy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Its britney bitch

Incorrect summary

[Rudeboy777]

instead of you paying Best Buy to delete trialware from your new PC, Best Buy will get paid by software makers to try to get you to install it

The summary is incorrect. As we learned in the previous Slashdot story, Best Buy's "optimization" service DID NOT delete the trialware for you. They just hid the shortcuts so that the 30-day Norton would still nag you to buy it when the time was up.

If these changes from BB mean trial trash is actually NOT installed, but rather a Best Buy app that links to the trial download, then this is absolutely a step in the right direction - especially if you can get your hands on your parents computer to uninstall the BB app before they try any of the "helpful" suggestions. Bestbuy still gets their software industry kickback to subsidize the system's low price and mom and dad's new PCs don't run like shit.

Re:Incorrect summary

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true. No trialware removed. Only the desktop is cleaned off, windows updates applied, and a geeksquad online service logo installed on the desktop. And some geek had the pleasure of opening your new laptop out of the plastic and then putting it back in the box. Should be illegal...

Re:After being found out they drop it but now what

[Anonymous Coward]

Former GS employee here:

The whole "pre-setup" thing was a crock from the get-go. It was SUPPOSEDLY so people who wanted the service could get a computer faster, but it just ended up being wasted labor. Myself and MANY other employees railed against this practice from the start, and of course management refused to listen.

What would happen is we would get the ads for the next week a few days early. Of the notebooks in the ad, a certain percentage of each we got in were to have the pre-installed garbage done to it. This started out fairly low, but soon we were being pushed to have 40% of each model done this way. And of course the people on the sales floor were told to push the HELL out of these systems. Why? Because technically, if the customer truly did not want the service, we were to restore it back to factory, or simply not charge them for it. Obviously this becomes a problem when a lot of customers don't want the service and they end up getting it for free. This is where they stopped having the in-store people do said service because it was wasted labor to do something for free, and also wasted labor to remove something the customer didn't want. The solution? A heavy internal push to have all of this done by the much-hated "Agent Jonny Utah".

Who is "Agent Jonny Utah", you might ask (other than a crappy Point Break reference)? It's nothing more than Geek Squad Outsourcing. They hook the computer up to the network, and use a customized version of LogMeIn to let someone in Bangalore or wherever do their job for them. Only half the time they don't do anywhere NEAR what a store employee would do. For example, when performing the service upon request, we would remove ALL trialware, make sure ALL updates were applied, and run a few scripts to generally make things a bit quicker and less resource-hungry. I could do about 5-8 computers at a time and have them all done inside of an hour. Agent Outsource? It would be up to 2 hours before they would even TOUCH the system, and then they would proceed to install the updates and give it a GWB-esque "Mission Complete." This meant we STILL had to do work to the computer when they were done, because they didn't really do anything to begin with.

AJU is also the reason you don't take your computer to the store to get it cleaned up. The VAST majority of the time, they will just hook it up remotely (unless it's so infected it can't get an IP, in which case they'll just want to do a restore) and let the remote guys take a whack at it. Surprise, surprise, more often than not they botch the job. And of course when it took 3x as long because of having to re-do the work, customers got upset and WE got the blame. We were NEVER to let the customer even THINK that the machine was worked on by someone other than the people they see behind the counter.

And this is why there is such a backlash anymore. Of the people who were there when I started in GS, only one is left. In my store (not sure about any others), we thought of ourselves as techs first and foremost. Those with that attitude were forced to change or leave, as they don't want techs. They want salesmen wearing a shirt and tie using the perception of knowledge to hock more crap. In the end, all we were there for was to sell services, but not perform them. Software? Have AJU do it. Hardware? Do they have a service plan? Ship it to Louisville. Only a manufacturer warranty? Give them the MFR number.

When I was new to GS, it was a culture of "help the customer, get them what they need, and build lasting relationships." When I left, it had become nothing but "milk as much money out of as many people as you possibly can."



On a final note, if you DO make the mistake of taking your PC to them for service, point blank ask them if THEY will be cleaning it, or if they're just going to hook it up to have some hackjob in Hyderabad run a few scripts and say it's done...

Boring

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the first time you've posted this rant. Stop tooting your own horn.

AC reads everything and forgets nothing. Entertain us better next time.

Agreed

[mister_playboy]

I did a reinstall on a friend's HP Vista laptop, and I was shocked and appalled by the amount of junk on there. The long interactive Flash video that plays when the computer is first booted would also be extremely misleading to a novice, as it appears to be offering software choices, but it's really just a bunch of advertising. This was far worse than any Dell or Sony I have worked on in the past.

The reinstall was needed after I attempted to work on her computer and noticed she didn't even have SP1 for Vista yet. I ran all the MS updates, and ended up with a corrupted NTOSKRNL.EXE and an unbootable Vista at the end of the process. Wiped all that junk and installed a fresh Windows 7 Ultimate. :)

Re:Agreed

[BobMcD]

How much does an upgrade from Vista Home Premium to Windows 7 Ultimate cost?

Re:After being found out they drop it but now what

[RobertM1968]

CompUSA used to do that ($20), but we'd actually optimize the various settings (all the tweaks that a power user would do to increase performance), remove the crapware, install all the updates, activate Windows (and Office or whatever else was bought/came with the machine), activate and update the AV/AS software, configure the network settings so the machine would go online right out of the box (keep in mind this was back in the day when Windows post-setup would pop up an idiotic list of choices on how to get on the Internet that made little to no sense to the average user, followed by the first time you ran IE, it trying to get you to sign up to AOL or connect to their site to choose an ISP... you know... their older, useless, "sell someone else's Internet service for them" Internet Connection Wizard crap, and so on... and it was never mandatory for the customer.

Wasn't too bad of a deal back then, considering just how difficult it was to even get online for the average user without being suckered into an AOL or Earthlink subscription (especially on the HPs which included their own Internet Wizard and post-install full screen pop-ups that hitting exit would just reload a different variant of them until you did that a couple times or went through the steps).

It's easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy a Mac. There is no shovelware/trialware/bloatware installed.

Re:It's easy

[quanticle]

That's like saying the only way to get a drivable car is to buy a Lexus.

Re:It's easy

[demonlapin]

No, it's equivalent to saying that buying a Lexus is a guarantee that you won't have to deal with any bullshit. (Which is true.)

Re:It's easy

[toddestan]

The last one I saw had trial versions of iWork and MS Office, and of course the nagging to upgrade to Quicktime Pro.

Re:It's easy

[quanticle]

That's true. In fact, it brings up a point where computers and cars are very similar. That is, paying more does not necessarily shield you from bullshit. My parents' friends own a Mercedes, and they hate it. While their car gets great performance, the benefits of that are outweighed by the relative lack of reliability and the high costs of repair. The same applies to "performance" computers sold by major manufacturers. You're paying for a lot of shiny plastic, and the costs of repair are going to be higher with the proprietary cases used.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Misunderstanding

[Mostly Harmless]

The problem with the Geek Squad is that Best Buy managers are often so far removed from what the Geek Squad is and how it should work that it becomes a poorly managed mess in many stores. This is the crux of the issues many people have with the Geek Squad.

The truth is that the optimization service is a good one for many people. Best Buy creates the specifics of the optimization service based on feedback from their customers and from the Geek Squad Agents who work on their computers. You must realize that for the majority of the Geek Squad's customers, a computer (tower) is a "router," Toshiba is "Toshibia," Linksys is "Linksky," Windows 7 is "Windows Veesta 7," and that's only if they know the difference between Windows and MS Office (which MANY do not). We're not talking about people with even passing computer knowledge. For these people, not having an icon for Internet Explorer or My Computer on their desktop (as is the case in many freshly-purchased machines) is akin to having a car with no steering wheel or pedals. The optimization service is designed to maximize the usability of a new computer for those customers who need it.

The optimization service takes some time (30 minutes to an hour) to complete. To save customers some time, the Geek Squad will "pre-optimize" a small percentage of their computers. In doing this, they are not violating any laws provided they leave any minimum available quantity (if stated in the weekly ad) unopened. If you attempt to purchase a computer and all they have left are pre-optimized units, they are required to sell you the computer at the normal retail price. They can not force you to pay the optimization fee. They do have the option, however, to restore the computer to factory defaults before they allow you to leave with it, and they do not have to give you an open-box discount. If employees are breaking these rules (laws) it is because of the poor management I referred to earlier, but it is certainly not company policy.

The real villains here are Microsoft and the computer manufacturers for not providing a consistent and customer-friendly experience for new computer buyers. Some of it comes from simply economics and marketing: manufacturers can reduce selling cost by including loads of trial software, not including MS Office and antivirus software, etc. The savings are then (misleadingly) passed to the customer. (I am sure, though, that Best Buy's enormous purchasing power has some say in what the manufacturers do, though.)

Re:Misunderstanding

[Dutch Gun]

The real villains here are Microsoft and the computer manufacturers for not providing a consistent and customer-friendly experience for new computer buyers.

I believe they tried that once. It was called "Bob", and as I recall, it didn't go over so well.

Re:Misunderstanding

[lukas84]

Actually, all the crapware on machines is allowing is to make good money reimaging machines.

Assume we have a small customer, that orders 20 or so computers. Then we additionally sell him Software Assurance (to get reimaging rights and MAK keys), and then reimage all the machines to a company baseline. That's about 8-16 hours for creating the image doing QA on it, plus another 8 hours to do the image rollout.

This way, selling computers actually still makes sense for us as a company.

Re:Misunderstanding

[Osty]

The truth is that the optimization service is a good one for many people. Best Buy creates the specifics of the optimization service based on feedback from their customers and from the Geek Squad Agents who work on their computers. You must realize that for the majority of the Geek Squad's customers, a computer (tower) is a "router," Toshiba is "Toshibia," Linksys is "Linksky," Windows 7 is "Windows Veesta 7," and that's only if they know the difference between Windows and MS Office (which MANY do not). We're not talking about people with even passing computer knowledge. For these people, not having an icon for Internet Explorer or My Computer on their desktop (as is the case in many freshly-purchased machines) is akin to having a car with no steering wheel or pedals. The optimization service is designed to maximize the usability of a new computer for those customers who need it.

Did you even read the consumerist report from the previous article? The optimization service is only good for Best Buy. It's a waste of time and money for anybody else, and can in fact cause more problems than it "fixes" (in that it never actually fixes anything). Your disdain for customers is pretty obvious (from the butthurt, I'm assuming you're a Geek Squad employee). Rather than looking down on your customers, why not try to educate them? Rather than charging them $40 for you to fuck up their computer, why not charge them $40 for a 1-hour class on how to use their new computer? You get the same money, customers who need it actually get something useful, and customers who don't won't have to pay a ransom just to buy a computer.

The optimization service takes some time (30 minutes to an hour) to complete. To save customers some time, the Geek Squad will "pre-optimize" a small percentage of their computers. In doing this, they are not violating any laws provided they leave any minimum available quantity (if stated in the weekly ad) unopened. If you attempt to purchase a computer and all they have left are pre-optimized units, they are required to sell you the computer at the normal retail price. They can not force you to pay the optimization fee. They do have the option, however, to restore the computer to factory defaults before they allow you to leave with it, and they do not have to give you an open-box discount. If employees are breaking these rules (laws) it is because of the poor management I referred to earlier, but it is certainly not company policy.

If optimization only takes 30-60 minutes, why do you sell it to users by telling them that it saves days of time just downloading Windows updates? You might want to get your facts straight. As for selling pre-optimized computers, re-read that Consumerist article. Maybe they're supposed to do what you say, but most stores don't. Besides, if you opened a brand new computer so you could fuck it up (I mean, "pre-optimize" it), I don't want it at normal price. I definitely don't want it at a "pre-optimized" premium price. I want it at open-box discount prices, because that's what it is now -- an open box PC. I can't be sure that all of the parts are included in the box (see the consumerist article again about missing power cords, contents of boxes swapped between different PCs, etc). Not doing so is a scam, and should be reported to the BBB.

The real villains here are Microsoft and the computer manufacturers for not providing a consistent and customer-friendly experience for new computer buyers. Some of it comes from simply economics and marketing: manufacturers can reduce selling cost by including loads of trial software, not including MS Office and antivirus software, etc. The savings are then (misleadingly) passed to the customer. (I am sure, though, that Best Buy's enormous purchasing power has some say in what the manufacturers do, though.)

Microsoft's OOBE is just fine -- you start the PC, answer a couple of questions about timezo

Re:Misunderstanding

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

You must be an Agent or a former Agent.

As a former Agent myself, thank you for attempting to express that the individual employees aren't trying to scam anyone and that WHEN FOLLOWING COMPANY POLICY, management isn't either.

However, managers everywhere go and screw the pooch.

Re:Misunderstanding

[BobMcD]

You must be an Agent or a former Agent.

I had the same thought. I worked for them back before the GS Kool Aid got passed out, and guess what - things haven't changed a bit.

I know what you 'Agents' were told, and I know you're wired to believe it, but unfortunately it just isn't true.

Back to the OP:

The problem with the Geek Squad is that Best Buy managers are often so far removed from what the Geek Squad is and how it should work that it becomes a poorly managed mess in many stores. This is the crux of the issues many people have with the Geek Squad.

No, close, but no. The problem is that Best Buy corporate LIED to you about the mission. GS exists to expand Best Buy's bottom line, period. If they really were some altruistic, independent entity then the overlaps wouldn't exist. Agents wouldn't walk the floor, units belonging to Best Buy wouldn't be 'pre-customized', etc. They can only legally do these things because they're the same entity. At any rate, the managers aren't 'removed' so much as you Agents are. The managers are being reviewed periodically on whether or not they further Corporate's interests. If/When they fail, they cease to manage. So assume that any manager that's been there more than a month is doing EXACTLY what the home office wants done.

Their first effort to refit the Tech Bench with a 'new strategy' failed because most, if not all, of the techs were ex-blue shirts. And we knew how the game was played. We saw exactly how Corporate's desires ran counter to the customer's, and frequently fought back using the same system that was supposed to be turning so many profit dollars. Corporate got wise and washed the whole thing clean, complete with a brand-new cover story. The truth of it, however, is they only did any of that to make it easier to screw the customers by getting their employees jaded attitudes rebooted.

Sorry if that means you need to find a new job.

Re:Misunderstanding

[yuhong]

The problem with the Geek Squad is that Best Buy managers are often so far removed from what the Geek Squad is and how it should work that it becomes a poorly managed mess in many stores. This is the crux of the issues many people have with the Geek Squad.

Yep, once including Geek Squad's founder Robert Stephens who sold it to Best Buy and was able to stay:
http://consumerist.com/2007/03/geek-squad-city-insider-rebutts-founders-retort.html

Its only a matter of time.

[codejunky]

I wonder how long till someone finds a cute little exploit in the software and all these best buy app boxes become part of some fun botnet.

Delete trialware?

[pgn674]

.' Translation: instead of you paying Best Buy to delete trialware from your new PC,

I thought the Best Buy optimization thing only removed the shortcut icons to the trialware, and didn't actually uninstall or delete any of it?

Re:Delete trialware?

[Anonymous Coward]

It might be something that varies from Geek Squad agent to Geek Squad agent. Most I know delete the shortcuts on both the desktop and from the start menu, along with uninstalling whatever software they see as being unneeded advert-ware.

You need only one program to remove trialware

[DigiShaman]

New or used PC, download and run The PC Decrapifier Below is a list of programs it will remove. Very simple to use.

AOL Install
AOL UK
AOL US
Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo XI
Corel Photo Album 6
Corel Snapfire Plus SE
Corel WordPerfect
Dell Search Assistant
Dell URL Assistant
Digital Content Portal
Earthlink Setup Files
ESPN Motion
Get High Speed Internet!
Google Desktop
Google Toolbar
HP Rhapsody
Internet Service Offers Launcher
McAfee
Microsoft Office Activation Assistant 2007
Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007
Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003
Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003
MS Plus Digital Media Installer
MS Plus Photo Story 2LE
MusicMatch Jukebox
MusicMatch Music Services
muvee autoProducer 5.0
NetZero Installers
Norton AntiSpam
Norton AntiVirus 2005
Norton Ghost 10.0
Norton Internet Security
Norton Internet Security
Norton Protection Center
Norton Security Center
Norton Symantec Live Update
Office 2003 Trial Assistant
Orange Internet
PC-cillin Internet Security 12 Trial
QuickBooks Trial
Quicken 2006 Trial
Remove Empty Program Folders Looks for and removes empty 'Program Files' folders
Wild Tangent Games
Yahoo! Music Jukebox
Yahoo! Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Reset IE Home and Search Pages
Roxio Express Labeler
Roxio MyDVD LE
Roxio RecordNow
Sonic DLA
Sonic RecordNow Audio
Sonic RecordNow Copy
Sonic Update Manager
Tiscali Internet
Travelocity Gadget
Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security 14
Vongo
Wanadoo Europe Installer

Re:You need only one program to remove trialware

[GarrettK18]

... Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007 Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003 Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003

Microsoft Office home and student 2007 and standard 2003 seem very important to me, as does Nortan Ghost. Hopefully the program lets you select which programs you want to remove.

Re:You need only one program to remove trialware

[DigiShaman]

No worries. It doesn't just start nuking programs without asking you first. In fact, it walks you through some lists with program check boxes. Simply review your options prior to executing the removal.

If you're in a corporate environment, they even let you interface with it via CLI for making batch jobs. You have to pay for that version though.

Re:You need only one program to remove trialware

[BobMcD]

... Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007
Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003
Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003

Microsoft Office home and student 2007 and standard 2003 seem very important to me, as does Nortan Ghost. Hopefully the program lets you select which programs you want to remove.

Then you'll be disappointed to note that those programs aren't actually 'included' with the PC. All of these you've noted are trials. Office limits you to opening the software a fixed number of times. Norton gives you a short window of protection. In all cases, if you find you like it, you are expected to pay full price.

Apples and Oranges

[ArundelCastle]

The margins on PCs are ridiculously thin.

That's why manufacturers have resorted to bundling crapware, and now apparently retailers as well.

Very true, but I think the greed of all parties (including the crapware developers) plays a stronger part than survival. It's not as if they weren't aware the industry has thin margins. One problem is, if a piece of technology functions well and does everything you need, there is no further consumption until a need arises.

There are thin margins on groceries/produce. It's made up for by sheer quantity because food is a rapid consumable. I think computer quantities are doing pretty good these days despite the cost, and relative longevity. Apple certainly doesn't have a problem with increasing their margins and factoring planned obsolescence. A lot of people find that objectionable, but I can't even use up a whole hand counting the amount of Mac crapware I've been subjected to.

And unsold groceries, like unsold computers, lose their value over time ("shrink"), and can be sold cheaper to avoid 100% loss.
Unless you only buy bagged produce (off the shelf computers), you can choose the best of what's available, piece by piece.
Hmm, time for lunch I think...

Re: New car ad-ware

[davebarnes]

When I buy a new car, I add words to the contract that state: "Dealer shall affix no decals and will remove any dealer markings that are on the car. Dealer agrees to pay all costs of removal."

One car I bought had to go into the body shop so they could the holes created by the screw-on decal.

How did they do in store hardware upgrades?

[Joe The Dragon]

How did they do in store hardware upgrades?

and they shipped out systems that you hard the parts in store to fix sounds like a waste on shipping costs.

Re:How did they do in store hardware upgrades?

[Anonymous Coward]

(different) ex-gs-er here:

In general, for things like RAM and HDD we'd just do it in store. If it was something else, or we didn't know, the motto was "ship it out" so we could get more stuff done.

Also, if we sent something out that turned out to not have a hardware problem, the customer was stuck with a ~$35 non-refundable shipping fee.

Mandated Optimization by Corporate Management

[Anonymous Coward]

This information comes straight out of the mouth of three Best Buy (store 483, Rego Park, NY, US) employees, a blue shirt sales guy, a white shirt manager, and a black shirt Geek Squad guy, on exactly 2009-08-30 and it was said front of myself, my wife, and my mother. Some of the quotes I am paraphrasing from memory since I did not record the conversation, this time around.

BB: "You cannot buy any of the HP G60-445DX that we have [about 8 in stock] locked away in the cage [in front of you] because they all have been pre-optimized and you need to pay for the optimization package already installed." - Best Buy Employees - Blue Shirt and Black Shirt Walking by to Assist

Me: "I want to buy this model HP G60-445DX shown in your circular and also shown on your web site as available in-stock from the Best Buy web site for the advertised price in both places for $529.99 USD. Wipe the machine and use the restore disks to bring it back to the original factory configuration and sell me the laptop."

BB: "No, you have to pay for the optimization package already installed on these laptops. We cannot sell you the laptop and we cannot wipe and restore it. Why don't you leave and come back next week on Thursday when we get another laptop shipment and try to come early and call ahead to get one before we start optimizing all of the ones that come in." - Best Buy Geek Squad Employee (Black Shirt)

Me: "Why can't you sell me the laptop that you have right there in front of me in the locked case behind the gray bars?"

BB: "We [Best Buy employees and management] are ordered by the company to pre-optmize most or preferably all incoming laptops, especially the ones that are advertised in the weekly circular newspapers and we cannot sell them without this package." - Best Buy Employees & Manager

That day I went to purchase a HP-Laptop with AMD Turion X2 Dual-Core Mobile Processor - Model G60-445DX (SKU: 9377104) for $529.99 USD for my mother to replace her old Dell. I wanted the laptop without any optimization package, pre-installed software, or warranty service since I am a senior server admin with experience and certifications for the Microsoft OSes and also laptop hardware certifications (including HP ASP) for the HP laptop hardware and I have access to HP's part replacement system for my own repairs.

We walked out of the store after wasting almost a full hour arguing with employees and managers to buy the laptop. I did not give up but instead used my HTC Mogul web phone to get on the Internet and I placed the order for the laptop on the Best Buy web site for a pick-up in the same store 483 for the original price of $529.99 USD + $47.04 tax for a total of $577.03 without any optimization charges. We paid by credit card on the web site. Magically the order was accepted, and a few minutes later as we were shopping in the mall I got the "Your order is ready for pick-up" e-mail on my phone.

All three of us stormed into the store and walked straight to the Customer Service counter on the right side. We told them we want the pick-up the order number and they went and got the laptop. The white shirt manager who was arguing and refusing to sell us the laptop half an hour past was the one who brought it over to customer service and he did a double-take to see us again. He looked at the order information and my mother's name taped to the laptop and noticed that the total price was $529.99 without the optimization charge. He walked over to the Customer Service girl and told her to hold the laptop while he want to talk to the store manager to verify that he can actually give and sell us the laptop

Re: New car ad-ware

[Anonymous Coward]

>When I buy a new car, I add words to the contract that state: "Dealer shall affix no decals and will remove any dealer markings that are on the car. Dealer agrees to pay all costs of removal."

One car I bought had to go into the body shop so they could the holes created by the screw-on decal.

Dude, you are one BAD ASS. Will you be my friend on MySpace?

best buy is great for

[gearloos]

Best Buy is a great place to buy music CD's and (if the price is even remotely competitive) a TV. Best Buy is NOT a place to buy computers. When purchasing from Best Buy you will NOT be told the truth, You will be told whatever the manager has decided the truth will be today as it affects the inventory that needs to move (If you know enough about them, buy online and get exactly what you want for a cheaper price. If you don't know enough, find someone who does and have them help you. If your even reading this, you know more than anyone working at Best Buy(selling Computers) anyway.

Something we learned

[bruns]

When we purchased our 42inch LCD last year, we had already figured out which TV we wanted, and went to the local BestBuy store to get it. First thing we did when we were approached by one of their people...

"We're here for this TV, and only this TV. We're not interested in extended warranties, or home theater systems and overpriced cables, and we're not interested in someone coming to our house to set it up. We're both experienced IT individuals, we've already got great HDMI and optical cables from monoprice, and a Sony 5.1 sound system that could knock the screens you have on the wall off at 50% volume. If you can't just ring us up, we'll find someone else who can."

He had us rung up and walking us out the door in 5 minutes with our new TV.

One thing we've learned, and it works equally as well with Dell and Verizon sales too, is that if you put it all on the table up front, and make it clear you will walk right then and there if they don't play by the rules, 9 times out of 10 there will be no issues. Hang up and call again, or find another sales person, there will always be someone willing to take your cash if the first person won't.

Re:Something we learned

[BobMcD]

This.

I have, on occasion, bought a computer this way as well. If you know what you want and actually shop the prices on it, eventually Best Buy will beat the online vendors.

Personally I prefer that 14-day window to swap it for a new one to dealing with shipping issues online. And I have in fact used it enough times to worry about it.

They musta stole it...

[CaptainOfSpray]

Their thing "saves you time by making it easy to discover new software, then download and install with a single click".

That's a description of Synaptic and apt-get.

If you buy a computer from Best Buy

[Anonymous Coward]

you deserve the sh!t that comes with it.

Re:Simple Solution to this Dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

assiste

How fancy!

Re: New car ad-ware

[ivan256]

I simply wouldn't buy such a car. Holes? Really? You know what's going to rust out first.

Anyway, every dealership around here puts the crap on when the cars arrive on the lot. And I don't trust anybody to do a damage free job of removing stuff.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Slashdotted

[thetsguy]

We knew of websites being slashdotted, now we are slashdotting the offered services.

We Rule!

OT music question

[zooblethorpe]

...for all the tea in China.

Any chance you've been listening to The Magnetic Fields lately? Specifically, All My Little Words, track 3 on volume 1 of "69 Love Songs".

Just curious. :)

Cheers,

Re:OT music question

[hairyfeet]

Never heard of them. Are they southern? Because "all the tea in China" is a common phrase in the deep south, along with "colder than a witches tit" (which it is here right now, WTF happened to global warming?) "hotter than the hinges of hell" "slow as Xmas" and "dumber than a bag of hammers".

What can I say, we southern folk are a "colorful people" when it comes to language.

Re:OT music question

[Anonymous Coward]

"dumber than a bag of hammers".

I always liked "Dumber than a bag of wet mice" personally.

Re:OT music question

[zooblethorpe]

I'm not sure where the band is from, but one of the members might well be from somewhere southern.

Ah, local color. One of my favorite US town names was "Maggie's Nipples" (I think it was in Montana). The town was unfortunately renamed to something less notable some years after its founding.

But the colorful language goes beyond just English -- the Acadians have been similarly fond of no-nonsense-but-colorful nomenclature, calling one white bayou fish variety the sac-au-lait (bag o' milk).

I grew up with "dumber than a box of rocks" and "getting nipply out". "Bag of hammers" is funnier, though.

Cheers,

Re:OT music question

[hairyfeet]

Well if you like weird town names, you should come to AR! We have towns with such "colorful" names as Toad Suck and Possum Grape. There is even a festival in Toad Suck called naturally Toad Suck days where one of the events is an outhouse race, no shit (pun intended).

But our language has always been colorful, with a mix of AR hillbilly, Cajun, Irish, Black, and Mexican. There are at least 5 separate regions here, each with their own accents and colorful expressions. So if you like weird language AR is the place. It is 35f here, which is officially "colder than a welldigger's ass" which I unfortunately have to go out in to get some new bass strings for meeting my new band this evening. So I'm a fixin' to go to the store and mossey on out of hear. Y'all come back now, ya hear?

catch 22?

[jjmiv]

don't PC manufacturers get paid by software companies to install trial-versions of their software? So then customers pay Best Buy to remove it AND Best Buy gets paid by software companies to load other software. Sounds like you can't win. I used to work for geek squad and it was really annoying removing all of the software that was useless with new computers. Actually, until we got in trouble, we created our own optimization software that removed unnecessary programs and optimized the Windows, the registry and boot up.

Re: New car ad-ware

[BobMcD]

So you... don't ever buy cars?

Re: New car ad-ware

[ivan256]

I've never come across a new car where the dealer ad was affixed using non-factory-drilled holes.

Re:After being found out they drop it but now what

[yuhong]

Yea, I read about most of this on The Consumerist, which wrote a lot of the articles on this in year 2007.
Partly thanks to this, eventually Robert Stephens, founder of the Geek Squad who sold it to Best Buy and was able to stay as a VP, admit the problems in an interview:
"FSB: If you could go back to before becoming part of Best Buy and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be?
RS: Compromise less. Speak up louder. Put my foot down more. Best Buy rolled out Geek Squad really rapidly, probably a bit too fast. Initially it sacrificed a bit of quality, but lately we've improved.
I forgave myself for when I let Best Buy skin our knees a bit - I don't think that I could have persuaded them without letting them take us out for a test drive and scraping us up a bit. At least now we're getting better at avoiding the scrapes."