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Half of All Data Centers Understaffed

alphadogg writes "Fifty percent of IT executives say their data centers are understaffed, and companies are still looking for more ways to cut costs, according to Symantec's latest 'State of the Data Center' report. Sixteen percent of survey respondents said their data centers are extremely understaffed, and another 34% called their data centers somewhat understaffed. At the same time, data centers are becoming more complex and harder to manage, with more applications, data and increasingly demanding service-level agreements. 'Data center complexity has led to a lot of staffing challenges,' says Sean Derrington, director of storage management and high availability at Symantec."

211 comments

  1. Th e other half by ascari · · Score: 5, Funny

    And the other half runs Linux!

    1. Re:Th e other half by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Laugh all you want, but there's a kernel of truth in that. All the *nix servers in my care mostly run on autopilot, and I pop in only once in awhile to check up on them, change/enter something in BIND, occasionally patch the ESX machinery, or put in the occasional patch that yum or ports can't get out of a repo (e.g. our custom help desk site software).

      OTOH, a huge chunk of time is spent in Exchange and SharePoint - mostly chasing down errant mails, or fixing bugs and glitches. To be fair, those two bits are customer-facing, thus more open to calls - but even still, so is our help desk site (which runs on Linux), and I rarely have to bother with that on the back-end. Also, I've run pure *nix email setups before, and it never ate as much time percentage-wise as Exchange does now - even when chasing bounces.

      On average, the 'doze servers eat about 95% of my time, but they comprise only 60% of the population.

      Nota Bene: One thing I've found to be awesome - get up a script that sends a copy of your Exchange logs to another box... that way you're not fighting store.exe for RAM when you want to parse through them, and you can use a real text editor (vi or EMACS - you pick) to read them.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Th e other half by ka8zrt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      -1 or more about not thinking this through though. (and not funny at all)

      As someone who has until recently done research in data centers and their operations, and personally dealt with the *NIX side of *NIX vs. NT years ago, I know the reality as opposed to the half-thought-out dreams some have. Yes, *NIX makes it much simpler to manage a machine, and increase the (servers/admin) ratio, among others, but it is not a solution which scales to where one person can administer 10K servers. As you add servers and applications, that ratio will reach a limit where you have to add yet another admin (operational, network, hardware, etc.). And should that site not be willing to do so, you end up with one of those "understaffed" data centers. Where that point is reached depends on a multitude of factors, including the behaviour of those using the data center (stupid developers, hands on users or workload characteristics cause that point to be reached sooner), the applications (a bunch of database servers will likely reach it before an equivalent amount of web servers), the amount of storage on those servers, and even the individual admins and how they are organized themselves. Throw in things like buying the cheapest hardware, or buying bleeding edge hardware (say 1.5TB drives when they first come out, or 10Gb ethernet cards), and it gets even worse as you try to deal with first generation drives failing or buggy drivers.

      Can two people administer 500+ servers with 1.5PB of storage? I know personally that it is possible. But to do it and keep everyone 100% happy? No. And that precludes things like having people who are hard to satisfy, having to backup all that data, running it in a non-university production environment, etc. When I left CompuServe in 1997, the numbers were far different, with IIRC 25-30 operators of varying skill levels, about 10 of us in admin positions (who were called upon by the operators when they could not handle something), and around half a dozen or so network and hardware folks. Total number of servers? Around 1200 running BSD/OS, and around another 1000 running either our proprietary OS on systems which came out of the DecSystem 20 designs, or systems running a specialized NT 3.51 load, and perhaps a total data storage of around 1.5TB. And things were simplified by things such as having dozens of machines which were identical handling application X. Of course, we also had 3 data centers, and did backups of at least one of each machine in a given group. And then there is the fact that some applications required the developers to administer the application itself.

      And looking forward... There were no regular 12 hour shifts at either of these. Yes, I was on call darn near 24*365 (I got vacation time off at my latest employer, but at CSI, I was on call even during vacation, and averaged 80hrs/week at the end). But when the fecal material hit the fan, and we had unusual problems like a computer room flooding or a critical server failing... it was possible to have to put in a 24 hour shift. Such is the life of a senior systems engineer in an operations group, which is one reason I try to avoid positions like these.

      --
      Helping build UN*X and the Internet since 1981. :)
    3. Re:Th e other half by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nota Bene: One thing I've found to be awesome - get up a script that sends a copy of your Exchange logs to another box... that way you're not fighting store.exe for RAM when you want to parse through them, and you can use a real text editor (vi or EMACS - you pick) to read them.

      We grab the Exchange logs off the box every 15 minutes and shove them into Postgresql. We can then use a PHP interface to view them. Very nice compared to notepad on the Exchange box.

    4. Re:Th e other half by Eskarel · · Score: 2

      You're not really comparing apples to apples there. Of course basic services which aren't used directly by end users and which are based on technologies from the stone age don't really require an awful lot to administer. They never do, regardless of their manufacturer. Even IIS doesn't really take all that much looking after once you've got it configured properly and it's probably one of the crappiest web servers around.

      Exchange on the other hand is user facing and has a complex feature set. I know a lot of tech's who don't really understand what exchange is all about, lord knows it took me years to work it out, but exchange isn't in any way comparable to an IMAP or POP server, if all you're using it for is e-mail then you're probably using the wrong product.

      Then you get sharepoint which is, in addition to being complex and user facing, also based on relatively new technology. I can tell you from having to work with one of their competitors on a regular basis, that there are a lot worse things to administer and manage than sharepoint in that space.

    5. Re:Th e other half by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      You can use "less" or "emacs" under CygWin instead, unless Windows file-locking causes trouble.

    6. Re:Th e other half by Tiger4 · · Score: 1

      Send everyone back to TTY dumb terminals. One set of apps for everyone, controlled in the central computing facility by a couple guys in white lab coats trying to stay warm in the meat freezer cum datacenter. All this distributed computing independence nonsense has gotten way out of hand.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    7. Re:Th e other half by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      there's a kernel of truth in that.

      +1 Terrible Pun

    8. Re:Th e other half by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Even IIS doesn't really take all that much looking after once you've got it configured properly and it's probably one of the crappiest web servers around.

      I cropped it to this to make a point: Even a basic IIS vs. a basic Apache site can show the differences: w/ even a busy Apache site, I rarely have to shut down the entire server (that is, reboot) for a server patch... only a kernel patch requires that. An IIS-based website OTOH has to be shut down at least every other month, just for patching.

      I agree that Exchange is damned complex - but Microsoft goes out of its way to make it even more complex than it should be. If I were to replace it wholesale with OpenXchange or Zimbra, I could cut my downtimes in half (at least), without sacrificing the featureset. (...and if only the IT management hadn't drank the koolaid, I could at least get up a trial server and prove it to them). For example, patching exchange requires (in 2007) that ALL exchange servers get the same patch level, or OWA is broken. To my knowledge, no other product requires that.

      ...therein lies my point.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Th e other half by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      IIS is definitely more work than Apache, though your specific example is actually related to windows and not to apache itself, since the same thing would apply to an apache site hosted on a windows server. There's certainly differences in different applications within the same sphere. My point was that most of the linux services you were mentioning aren't comparable to the windows services you were saying they were easier to maintain than. Sharepoint is not BIND.

  2. What a Shocker by Xeleema · · Score: 1

    Seems like only supervillians have fully-staffed datacenters these days...hopefully Dethklok can turn that trend around.

    --
    "When I am king, you will be first against the wall..."
    1. Re:What a Shocker by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      How? By killing off half their staff in the most accidentally brutal manner possible?

    2. Re:What a Shocker by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure Dethklok qualifies as "accidental supervillains".

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  3. Yes, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are they half full or half empty?

  4. More Jobs Then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish that this report would mean more data center jobs becoming available!

    I can only wish... :(

  5. In other news... by HBI · · Score: 4, Funny

    50% of all datacenter operators lie about their staffing levels.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:In other news... by halcyon1234 · · Score: 4, Funny

      50% of all datacenter operators lie about their staffing levels.

      The other 50% didn't return calls in time to be included in the survey.

    2. Re:In other news... by INT_QRK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that staffing levels are very often highly subjective. For most concerns, the complaint of being "under staffed" only indicates that the current staff feels overworked, a condition almost universal in all sectors of a healthy, i.e., growing, organization. For the ISO 9000-ish (or ITIL?) crowd, under staffed might mean that some formal document published a desired level at some specific point in time, the best against a workload study, and industry rules of thumb. But, since every such study measures a specific point in time, they become out of date, often obsolete by the time full staffing achieved. So, "fully staffed" is ever elusive, and this applies to every sector. We're all Bozos on this bus. In fact, any staff that's manned to the point that they're not feeling some pain risks being seen as over staffed, and a target for reallocation or cuts. Sorry to put a damper on any delicious feelings of workforce martyrdom. People also get mad at me when I point out that, by definition, nearly half of the population ranks below mean intelligence.

    3. Re:In other news... by kiehlster · · Score: 1

      Hey it's true. My hosting provider, during a facility migration, told me at first that they couldn't support my server (in the old facility) because the admins were busy with other tickets that preceded mine. I found out later through poking and prodding at phone support that they had one, yes, ONE system administrator handling all of their support operations at the old facility while the rest of their staff was reassigned to server migration tasks. The reason they couldn't get to my support ticket was because the guy lived on the east coast and was asleep at the time.

    4. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other 50% didn't return calls in time to be included in the survey.

      They were to busy covering the first half's shift.

    5. Re:In other news... by barzok · · Score: 1

      The other 50% didn't return calls in time to be included in the survey.

      Because they were too busy trying to fix too many problems with too few staffers on hand.

    6. Re:In other news... by andymadigan · · Score: 1

      " People also get mad at me when I point out that, by definition, nearly half of the population ranks below mean "

      That's because you're wrong, nearly half ranks below the median, that doesn't mean nearly half ranks below the mean. If you rank intelligence from 1 to 10, and you have 10 people with a rank of 1 and 2 people with a rank of 10, you get an average of (30/11)=2.72. It actually doesn't matter what the number is, by definition half would not be below the mean.

      Now, it may well be that half the population is below average intelligence, but that isn't the definition.

      Note: I'm avoiding IQ here because that is actually adjusted based on intelligence of the population.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    7. Re:In other news... by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Regarding median, yes, you are absolutely correct, half above, half below. Regarding your quibble, however, I guess I need to amplify by saying that over a large enough sample (or given a sufficiently large population), intelligence (or any trait for that matter) will tend to be distributed roughly half above and half below the mean, or top dead center of a standard distribution, or "Bell," Curve. Mmmkay?

    8. Re:In other news... by NFN_NLN · · Score: 1

      " People also get mad at me when I point out that, by definition, nearly half of the population ranks below mean " That's because you're wrong, nearly half ranks below the median, that doesn't mean nearly half ranks below the mean. If you rank intelligence from 1 to 10, and you have 10 people with a rank of 1 and 2 people with a rank of 10, you get an average of (30/11)=2.72. It actually doesn't matter what the number is, by definition half would not be below the mean. Now, it may well be that half the population is below average intelligence, but that isn't the definition.

      That's a great sample size of 3 you have there. If you have a sufficiently large sample size it will start to more closely resemble the normal-distribution model. Keep in mind the normal distribution still has variables to tweak the model, so no I doesn't have to a perfect and/or symmetric classic bell-curve.

    9. Re:In other news... by turtleshadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very, Very few Center Managers actually performed any kind of statistical process control analysis for quality in the datacenters I worked for which were huge and did work for .gov, finance and top 500 and they barely did it. They eventually fired the poor guy as he kept proving management wrong. We had long conversations that helped me understand technology for what it was: "La Technique: L'enjeu du siècle" was an eye opener.

      Very few managers understood what project management & change windows were in a datacenter and usually managed to a staffing model which could only break in times of heavy load, inducing a bigger emergency later on.

      Really management held the mentality of "the Maytag repair man" is who they need to hire by the business plan but the reality was a team of MacGuyver's were needed for the workload over several clients.

      Even educating them on vendor patch cycles and technology refresh could not break them out of scarcity = profit mentality.

      The admin team experienced over and over that that next month is the month where Microsoft is going to pound us with new critical patches. Despite explaining this, management also put the work of putting unrelated project X into motion or finishing that same next month.

      Extensive studies about patch cycles or changes (failed, back out, succeeded) take a long view - an X bar control chart shows spikes and abnormals. It then takes some analysis to then determine staffing levels that can handle the work on average. It takes a huge business insight to understand why something fell outside the norm and how to handle it when it comes again. Really I don't think the technology today can be managed to wholly eliminate outlying events like traditional manufacturing processes. The now typical 3 year tech cycle prevents such work.

      It is true statistical process control can be made to lie but it is better than uneducated guessing.

      To me datacenters are huge machines you can walk inside of, really no different than megawatt power generation or pharmaceutical manufacturing and ought to be better managed. I say this in that when they go offline or do not function well an aspect of human safety and productivity is jeopardized.

      My favorite manager who I worked for briefly before he retired said, "Cowboy managers and admins have no place in my shop. I want science put back into Computer Science, don't snow me with new technology."

      I agree with him.

    10. Re:In other news... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      In other news, odds are good that almost 100% of IT staffers would say their data centers are understaffed. IT people (and geeks in general) tend not to say "no" until things are beyond what they can possibly handle. At this point, they're way beyond what should be considered "overloaded". Most managers are not from this group, so they don't comprehend that when we say we can handle something else, we often mean, "I'm superhuman and I can pull it off, but it's coming out of my stomach lining and you'd better recognize just how amazing I am for doing this."

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other 50% didn't speak enough English to do so.

    12. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by definition, nearly half of the population ranks below mean intelligence.

      You mean median. Sure, if you assume intelligence is distributed normally, it works out the same, but then you don't get to say "by definition."

    13. Re:In other news... by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      If you have a sufficiently large sample size it will start to more closely resemble the normal-distribution model.

      Only if the entire population follows a normal-distribution. Nothing guarantees that any arbitrary population follows a normal distribution.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    14. Re:In other news... by unkmar · · Score: 1

      Actually, his sample size was 12 and his math is off. He states 10 people with a rank of 1. (10 * 1) = 10
      And 2 people with rank of 10. (2 * 10) = 20
      Total rank: 10 + 20 = 30
      Total people: 10 + 2 = 12
      Avg rank: 30 / 12 = 2.5
      BTW, it works the other direction as well, if you switch rank values you get the following.
      (10*10) + (2 * 1) = 102
      Avg rank: 102 / 12 = 8.5

    15. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The happy ones are staffed by people with H1b visas.

  6. 12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    12 hour shifts are not the answer as well makeing people work every weekend holiday night while the boss / PHB never does any of that.

    1. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by scarolan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      12 hour shifts are not so bad if you only work three or four days a week, alternating every other week.

    2. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      preferable 3 days back to back with 4 the next week 7 on 7 off is so nice.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    3. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      For almost every company I worked for the Boss seems to work an average of 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week and Always on call. I had to do some traveling with my Boss once. Although it always seems like he comes in from 10-3 every day. They are usually working for the rest of the time.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by scamper_22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      100% of all IT jobs understaffed.

      Methinks it is about time we got a professional body (or for those so inclined a union). They would set things like standards, work requirements, exams to work in a data center, and of course we can use it to make sure job stay local as the other professions do. I mean how can you trust your data to a non-professional data center. I mean, do you trust people to manage their own medicines?

      I say this only have cynically. If you can't beat em, join em. We have to stop pretending we live in a free-market and use the government like everyone else to protect our turf... all in the name of benefiting society... of course.

    5. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      ...in a strip club.

    6. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The problem is when the company requires you to work "on-call" for 6-7 days a week on the 12-hour night shift. If/when problems arise you are required to stay for the 8AM morning meeting, and boom, your little 12-hour shift from 6PM to 6AM becomes a 15 hour shift because you have to explain why the accounting database was down for 45 minutes last night, and all the reports based on it are backed up by 2 hours because the batch process had to be restarted. Followed by another 12-hour shift in a few hours.

      The problem is, offshore programmers aren't taught a lick of JCL to run the code properly.

      I worked in Data Centers for years, I was happy and enjoyed the night shift until working for "Big Blue". They would promise clients dedicated operators, but "double-dip". Sunday nights you would routinely be watching 2 or 3 client systems at the same time, clients who were asking for / requiring dedicated operators. Sure, you ran an IPL on Sunday night and nothing was going to happen for most of the night, but it's still wrong.

      The pay was great. Overtime was paid at time-and-a-half. But working 70-80 hours a week for 6-weeks straight did a number on me. It was the reason I left IT. The client system I was responsible for had 3 operators working 12-hour shifts when I came in as the fourth. That's right, 3 people covering 12-hour shifts 7-days a week, 365-days a year. That's why there was double-dipping. Just have an Operator watching another system and keep an eye on this one. It happened with almost all the clients that hired out Mainframe Operations (The majority were run this way). Management fought against bringing me on, and after I left, did not fill the position.

      As for the Brazillions IBM sent some jobs to, they came to Boulder to train (It's called Boulder, but the IBM facility is closer to Niwot). The majority of them had never used a computer, and they all claimed the only requirement for the job was to speak English. It was a slap in the face for the American Operators, who had to have a college degree plus experience for the same positions.

      In closing, I would go back to 12-hour shifts at a company with a dedicated Data Center. I would never go back to a service company like IBM that treats operators like junk.

    7. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by Pointy_Hair · · Score: 1

      I see a special assignment in your future ;-D

    8. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by the+phantom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't see how forming a union involves the government, nor how it violates free market principles.

    9. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by scamper_22 · · Score: 1

      I was speaking more in terms of professional organization... which... yes involve the government.
      Doctors count of the government to prevent anyone else from treating patients.
      Ditto laywers...

      And with respect to unions? Most western countries have special rules in place governing unions. Unions are not simply voluntary associations of employees gathering together. if they were, it would be fine, but they're not. Unless you are in one of the 'right to work' states, in most union shops, you are *forced* to join the union if you want to work there. The employer doesn't have a choice in this matter. There are special union rules like you can't close down a shop simply because it became unionized...

      As I said, while theoretically a union doesn't requirement government... in practice... they make heavy use of government and special pro-union legislation.

    10. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Methinks it is about time we got a professional body (or for those so inclined a union) [...] to make sure job stay local as the other professions do."

      There are trades and trades. Just try to force a company to maintain its datacenter on local personnel and next you'll see is the datacenter being outsourced as a whole. How many japanese cars were roading in USA by the sixties?

      On the other hand, for profiles that cannot be easily outsourced, yes, professional bodies and unions are the way to go no matter how "antiamerican" the big tycoons try to make it seem. What do you thing a corporation is but a union on the financial side? If the financial side can unionize why the labour part shouldn't?

    11. Re:12 hour shiths are not the ansaser by shirotakaaki · · Score: 1

      I thought you were going to say "12 hour shifts are not so bad if you only work three or four of the 12 hours". Nine to eight hours on Slashdot is a little extreme though.

  7. Would this be a good time for a union? by starbugs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > 50 % understaffed, 16 % seriously.
    So how many of you have to answer your blackberries after work?
    Is this not the kind of situation that a Union would prevent?

    (just an honest question btw, I'm not trying to troll)

    1. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You aren't trying to troll and neither am I. It IS the kind of situation a union would prevent, however considering everything else that has been done for union's sake lately (see: destruction of US auto industry) I would suggest you take the unionization decision VERY seriously. How exactly, considering that funding isn't sufficient for staffing at the current expense, do you expect companies to afford to bankroll a union AND get more staff to man the servers? In all likelihood you will end up with lower pay and more work; but hey at least you will have a contract!

      In all fairness, (not trying to troll, honest) unions aren't for educated workers who can make rational decisions. Unions were invented to protect unsuspecting workers from manipulative business owners, when the education gap was huge. Now, you probably have a very comparable education to your boss, and probably to his boss and most of the rest of the organization. You are smart, start making your own decisions.

      You know what else would prevent you from having to take work calls after hours? Stand up, tell your boss you won't give up your personal time anymore, and let him fix the situation or fire you. Presto, no more late nights!

    2. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by grasshoppa · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's never a good time for a union. Ever.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    3. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by gclef · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's going to be very dependent on the union. (Devil's always in the details.) Many IT folks still have the free-wheeling "just get out of my way & I'll get this fixed" attitude, and in those cases union interference in their work will not be welcomed.

      Basically, a collective bargaining agreement is one thing...having someone outside the organization set the bounds of your job (and set limits on how you can be promoted, or which incompetent f-up can be fired) is quite another. I won't say a union is impossible, but it probably wouldn't be one of the big names.

    4. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problems with Unions is not that they exist, but that they forgot what their job was. Their job is to protect workers from employer excess. For instance working 80+ hours a week for very little pay and no overtime. And keeping working conditions safe instead of letting safety go to increase profit, because the lawsuit would cost less then the safety measure. The problems with unions is that they forgot that and started focusing on pay and benefits. Essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul. And in the process hurting the employer by creating pay structures and job restrictions that are not sustainable. However, upper management did the same thing by paying top executives way more then they were worth. If executives were not paid 300x more then employees the company would have more money to properly staff. So unions needed to protect employees from the employers, but needed to protect employers from themselves.

    5. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course a union would prevent it, but not necessarily in the way you hope. Offshoring the data center will stop your Blackberry from ringing.

    6. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      however considering everything else that has been done for union's sake lately (see: destruction of US auto industry) I would suggest you take the unionization decision VERY seriously.

      Hahaha. As much as I dislike unions, the destruction of US auto industry was caused by complacent & incompetent US auto industry management.

      The US auto industry kept designing & building cars at a price point that few people wanted to buy. Simply put, foreign car companies (on average) made better, more reliable cars.

      The union wanted better salary & benefits for their members (entirely understandable, we all want to make more money). But if management agreed to ridiculous levels of compensation, to the point where the business is no longer viable, then that is the fault of management for making stupid decisions.

    7. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a good time for a union when a rich employer has a monopoly over jobs but is keeping wages low despite increasing profits.

      Unionism is just another negotiating tactic. People who don't like them are either rich and fear them, hopeful that they might one day be rich and not want them to exist, or a bit on the dim side. I suspect you are one of the latter group. Never mind.

    8. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what else would prevent you from having to take work calls after hours? Stand up, tell your boss you won't give up your personal time anymore, and let him fix the situation or fire you. Presto, no more late nights!

      Ah, I see you are independently wealthy or have connections that are willing to get you another job pronto in a tight market. Most people don't have that luxury.

      Unions are a great thing to threaten management with and a lousy thing to have to actually live under. Go figure.

    9. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Unions are a great thing to threaten management with and a lousy thing to have to actually live under. Go figure.

      So are nuclear weapons!

    10. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Geoff-with-a-G · · Score: 1

      Is this not the kind of situation that a Union would prevent?

      Short answer: Yes, it would likely provide that benefit, but with several other large costs, some unforeseen.

      Slightly longer: It's all a trade-off, no free lunches, so decreasing workload would require more spending on staff (either more hires as existing ones become less productive, or compensation for overtime, etc) which would either make the service increase in cost or decrease in quality. Unionizing isn't always a win or always a lose - there's some industries/scenarios where it's a good fit and others where it's a bad fit. For many reasons, IT is a poor fit for unions, despite the individual workers' desire to get paid overtime, work 35 hour weeks, and never get fired.

    11. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by kionel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've been an advocate for an IT Union ever since my father-in-law and I talked about how the CWA helped his career.

      Consider this: The Union forced his major telco management to:

      Plan changes well in advance.

      Coordinate technical resources to ensure no overloading.

      Allowed the technical resources the legal right to push back on after-hours changes, due to labor laws.

      Provided hefty compensation bonuses for technical resources forced to work more than forty-five hours per week.


      As a result, he couldn't fathom why I was always working fifty hour weeks, was always tired, was always on-call, was always working no-notice changes...you get the idea. When I would tell him about the late-in-the-day drive-by requests, he just didn't understand that we as engineers couldn't say "No!"

      Remember, folks, that the businesses we work for cannot exist without the skills and experience that you bring to the table. Even in this economy, businesses stand to lose a lot if they let you go and are forced to replace you with a cheaper resource. You not only have a skillset, you understand the interpersonal relations, the political paths-of-least-resistence, and the office culture that will take a lot of time for a new person to pick up. That's worth a lot.

      Remember, you have the right to defend your vested interest in the business arrangement that is a corporate job. The moment you forget that is the moment you allow yourself to become a technosurf.

      --
      "'My Country Right or Wrong'is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober,'" -- Chesterton
    12. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 0, Troll

      Seriously, you just copied and pasted that off the UAW web site, right?

      Because the Unions in the Auto Plants forced the automakers to become very inflexible and ossified in how they conducted operations. Any minor change in process required expensive retraining, and lord help them if a new process made it possible for something to be done with fewer employees.

    13. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that the Telcos were too blamed dumb to run their business the right way, and they have the Unions to thank for straightening them out?

      You have the right to refuse to do any work you wish. But the moment you forget you're an employee, you might not be one any longer.

    14. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      There is a wide range of classifications for people who do not like unions. You forgot the big one; people who have been, or are in, a union and got fucked over by the "Been here forever" mentality. I was in a meeting last week where the union rep said with a straight face that seniority means more than merit.

      That's a mode of thought I will never understand.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    15. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by br00tus · · Score: 1
      I think there will be manned missions to Mars before a real union of IT workers is formed in the US, nevertheless I find some of these statements to be incorrect.

      "everything else that has been done for union's sake lately (see: destruction of US auto industry)"

      And what destroyed the US textile industry? North Carolina has the lowest unionization rate in the country, 50 of 50, yet over the past years textile factories have been closing all over North Carolina and moving to other countries. What you're saying makes no sense - manufacturing has been moving out of the US to developing countries for some time. Whether it is very unionized like the auto industry, or with virtually no unionization like the textile industry in the Southern US, all have been affected the same. If unionization was what is doing it, then the textile factories in the South wouldn't be closing at the same rate that auto manufacturing plants are.

      "How exactly, considering that funding isn't sufficient for staffing at the current expense, do you expect companies to afford to bankroll a union AND get more staff to man the servers?"

      There are three places money goes out to in any company - buying (especially replenishing) goods, wages and profit. Regarding goods - for an IT company keyboards, mice, monitors etc. get worn out and are replaced over time, electricity is used and so on. As far as wages - this is what people are paid. As far as profits - in large companies these are sent out as dividends to stockholders, in smaller companies they are often reinvested to buy more goods and pay wages to more people. Unions are focused on profits, and getting more of it into the wage slot. Take a company like Verizon - it has a union, it also has a de facto monopoly on the local loop, no matter what the law says. Verizon sends a fat dividend check to its shareholders every quarter, and the check would be even fatter if the CWA was not a union at Verizon. The Verizon techs and workers do all the work, create all the wealth, so they organize to pull more of that dividend check to their wages. Anyhow, the union goes after the profit, so that is how the union is "bankrolled". If the company has no profit to go after, there is no point in a union.

      "In all likelihood you will end up with lower pay and more work; but hey at least you will have a contract!"

      Virtually every economic study done in every country in every time period shows this is not the case. Unionization almost always tends to a higher pay per hour. As unions ask for overtime pay (IT is exempt from mandatory overtime pay) the hours worked tend to be less as well, although this correlation is less strong. If they have to pay overtime, they pay 3 people to work 40 hours a week instead of 2 to work 60 hours a week.

      "Now, you probably have a very comparable education to your boss, and probably to his boss and most of the rest of the organization. You are smart, start making your own decisions."

      While you may be correct that unions, or labor organizations, or whatever you want to call them may need to adapt to the changing economy, your statement is self-contradictory. You talk about "Your boss, and probably...his boss" and "you". Well there you have it right there, you already have two educations against one education. Who is smarter, both of them put together or you? You make my point in your statement. The boss has the management structure, human resources, lawyers and a lot of money on their side, you are one, isolated individual. It is like a basketball team versus one player. Who is going to win?

      "You know what else would prevent you from having to take work calls after hours? Stand up, tell your boss you won't give up your personal time anymore, and let him fix the situation or fire you. Presto, no more late nights!"

      For unionized workers, this is not even a conversation they would even have to have. Which is the point. They are automatically paid for overtime, they don't have to argue with their boss over whether to come in on Saturday or not.

    16. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously, you just copied and pasted that off the UAW web site, right?

      Nope. The decline of the big 3 has been going on for decades.

      Because the Unions in the Auto Plants forced the automakers to become very inflexible and ossified in how they conducted operations. Any minor change in process required expensive retraining, and lord help them if a new process made it possible for something to be done with fewer employees.

      And who agreed to the union demands? Management. Look, if the union can get management to agree to something like "jobs bank" where thousands of employees are paid not to work, good for them. Management didn't have to agree to that kind of stupidity. Management didn't have to structure their operations so that a targeted strike at a small parts plant brings their operations to a standstill.

      Maybe the big 3 should hire someone from Walmart to teach them about union relations.

      And frankly, the actual labor cost difference between domestic/foreign cars is not that big. The fundamental problem is that foreign automakers make BETTER cars that more people want to buy.

    17. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      There is a wide range of classifications for people who do not like unions.

      Nah, there's just two:

      1. Business owners
      2. Frikkin Morons

      The problem isn't unions, the problems is people. As proven by Enron, Worldcom, and the credit swap bubble that collapsed last year. But funny enough, you don't find these same Frikkin Morons ranting on how all business is bad because some businesses are bad.

    18. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Uberbah · · Score: 0

      The problems with Unions is not that they exist, but that they forgot what their job was.

      Hardly.

      The problems with unions is that they forgot that and started focusing on pay and benefits.

      I can't believe someone would type something that stupid and have enough brain power to keep their lungs functioning. First of all, on what planet are workers not concerned about pay and benefits? And where do you think pay (overtime) and benefits (a weekend) come from? That's right, unions.

      And in the process hurting the employer by creating pay structures and job restrictions that are not sustainable.

      Nonsense. Unions want businesses to be sustainable and profitable, just like management, for the same reasons: more take home pay. Unions have taken enormous cuts in pay and benefits to keep jobs, but for some reason they get pissed when workers are expected to make the sacrifices while the executives continue to get their golden parachutes and 15% annual increases in compensation.

    19. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      Just keep telling yourself it's as simple as that.

      Unions were created to fix a problem, I don't doubt that. I question their lingering legacy.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    20. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Seriously, pull your head out. Process changes in private businesses also require retraining, but of course you knew that already.

    21. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "In all fairness, (not trying to troll, honest) unions aren't for educated workers who can make rational decisions."

      Because? On one hand you have big corporations with money even to press government to pass laws as they see fit, on the other hand your bare strengh. The only rational decision seems to be to unionize to counterbalance the hughe different in strenghs and power.

      "Presto, no more late nights!"

      And "Presto, no more money to pay for the mortage!"

    22. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by gclef · · Score: 1

      I understand your point, but it somewhat feeds the point I was aiming for as well: a number of IT people see the telcos as process-bound and slow-moving, and they feel that's not an environment that they want to work in. If that sort of environment is the end result of unionizing, then a lot of IT people (obviously not all, but many) won't want to unionize.

      It's obviously a trade-off: if you want the protection a union offers, then some bureaucracy comes with it. But, so far most IT people haven't been willing to make that trade.

    23. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Unions get the blame for the destruction of the auto industry, but I'm not convinced it's deserved. The auto industry did many things wrong, including taking the money they had pledged to the rank and file for pensions and handing it over to CEOs for their 'performance bonuses' instead. Now they cry that the pensions are breaking the bank. Of course they'll never cry that they'd like the several hundred million back from the CEO, he's the one doing the crying.

      Unions CAN be about helping less educated workers deal wioth more educated management. They can also be about simply allowing workers to present a unified front to the management's unified front.

      You know what happens when you stand up and say no more after work calls? You become "not a team player" and first in line to be cut when the CEO needs a new yacht. Unless, that is, nobody else is accepting after work calls either because of a union contract.

    24. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by sjames · · Score: 1

      It does call for a different approach. For example, rather than prohibiting working after hours, require that the time be fairly compensated. Rather than ending on-call, simply insist on on-call pay.

      It's notable that the most outrageous rule-driven unions got that way as a defense from management playing with loopholes. Why can't an under-performer be fired easily? Because management decides who is an under-performer, and somehow, magically, anyone who actually stuck up for the union became one. Why do they get bent out of shape if an assembly line is a tiny fraction of a percent faster than specified? Because management tried to "boil the frog" a few years ago.

    25. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by gclef · · Score: 1

      I agree that a different approach would be good. Personally, I'd love to see one that didn't make a distinction between management & employees, but instead enforced a "don't be a dick" policy across the board. I'd like to see a "union v2" (for lack of a better term) that had procedures/policies for how employees should act, and others for how management should act, and enforced those on both ends with the company's cooperation.

      Basically, I see no reason why the organization that punishes management for promoting a crony over someone qualified should be any different from the one that punishes an employee for sleeping on the job. If the checks & balances worked in both directions, I suspect the organization would be much healthier.

    26. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, (not trying to troll, honest) unions aren't for educated workers who can make rational decisions. Unions were invented to protect unsuspecting workers from manipulative business owners, when the education gap was huge. Now, you probably have a very comparable education to your boss, and probably to his boss and most of the rest of the organization. You are smart, start making your own decisions.

      Unions were not invented to protect stupid people from smart. Unions were formed to protect poor people from the rich. Specifically, they were meant to protect the employee from being blackmailed into a bad deal by an employer in the situation of surplus workforce.

      You know what else would prevent you from having to take work calls after hours? Stand up, tell your boss you won't give up your personal time anymore, and let him fix the situation or fire you. Presto, no more late nights!

      And no more wages, in all likelihood. On the other hand, if you're part of a union, the union can say "we're not giving our personal time anymore, fix this problem or go bankrupt".

      Unions exist to balance the power between employers and employees, and thus give them an equal negotiation position.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    27. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      So *very* many companies manage to have vast, effective, happy work forces without the need to unionize... While we can sit here all day and go back and forth about who should have the power, management or employees, the fact remains that it is demonstrably possible to have a sizable company with a diverse work force succeed without a union of any sort...

      The other thing that is hard to argue is that supply and demand is a bad thing for a free market economy. If a company is treating their employees poorly, the employees leave to go to another company. If a union steps in to decide how much employees should make, and who gets hired/fired (along with taking a nice cut for themselves) all you accomplish is a short-circuit of the free market and the company then gets to live and die by it's union contract negotiating skills alone. GM and Chrysler are examples of this. Management certainly played a role but ultimately the management could have been as good or bad as they wanted to be; the contracts of old didn't meet with the auto market of new, plain and simple.

      Unions exist to balance the power between employers and employees, and thus give them an equal negotiation position.

      The Federal and State governments exist to ensure safe, effective working conditions. Unions exist for a far more nefarious reason; 'balancing power' is only where they start, in the long run they are a god awful mess. But this isn't an anti-union rant, really. It would be much worse if it were.

    28. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by juicegg · · Score: 1

      Some people here have mentioned that unionizing for IT workers might do some good, but it is either not feasible due to nature of IT work or has other drawbacks. I think IT workers (a broad category I know) should be talking about organizing first, unions second. Many of the official unions are just a different set of bosses, often fairly friendly to the original set. This does not mean that our attempts to collectively improve our conditions are doomed to harm us. Instead, how much the union works their members, how much for themselves and how much for the company depends mostly on how organized and conscious people already are in their workplace. When workers want to work more reasonable hours for a better pay and are willing to fight together, they will force their union to do the job. When the workers are apathetic, the union will manage them. The main advantages of the union are legal protections and national support, so it makes a sense to have one if people in a workplace already want to get organized, but it makes almost no sense to ask for outsiders to come from the union and organize the workplace.

      IT workers organizing is not unprecedented. The first real IT strike I know of took place in 2004 at Schneider Electrics aka the GE of Europe, which produces electrical components and control systems. The company was planning to move 400 local IT workers (mostly doing tech support) to a different french company, which does outsourcing services. This meant each employee would take a 500 Euro monthly paycut and would work in worse conditions at the outsourcing shop. In response to these plans, IT workers went on strike, occupied their offices and seized some servers. The union was not happy and provided almost no support. The workers had their own daily assemblies where they discussed their situations and decided how to act. They received some support from factory floor (blue collar) workers. Ultimately they voted to end the strike and occupation, since the company wasn't willing to negotiate and the union was not willing to defend them. Although this was not a measurable victory, it's not defeat either - this sort of action makes it harder for the company to outsource people in the future. For the IT workers it was their first real strike, which changed their attitudes towards work and collective action. Some of them were not union members, but described the strike as something they had to do - the pay cut meant trouble paying mortgages. A more detailed account (unfortunately rather politicized and not always clear, but still very valuable) is here Strike and occupation of IT workers at Schneider Electrics.

      Organizing Info (union or no union)
      Workplace Organizing
      General Organizing

    29. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by juicegg · · Score: 1

      I forgot to mention a story from Forbes about Indian tech workers unionizing, which cuts the drive to outsource US tech jobs. Indian Technology Industry Workers Get Organised

    30. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No matter what they were "invented for" (and that is speculation) the most powerful professions have what amount to unions to protect their interests: Lawyers (ABA) and Doctors (AMA), which prevent competition, regulate their members, and set barriers to entry, etc.

      There is no comparable lobby/professional interest group/'union' in IT.

    31. Re:Would this be a good time for a union? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Just keep telling yourself it's as simple as that.

      Because it is that simple. Americans have been snookered by corporatist propaganda that appeals to their own greed and egos.

      I question their lingering legacy.

      I suppose you could see it that way, if you're from some other planet where workers are paid what they are worth and are not abused or put in dangerous situations needlessly. But here on planet Earth, Wal-Mart gets busted for forcing employees to work off the clock and airline pilots are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps or have to take a second job.

  8. Should this be surprising? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this really surprise anyone?

    Many data centers these days are no longer run by engineers or technologists, who have at least some idea regarding the technical aspects of the operation. Rather, many of them are run by people who received their higher education in finance, commerce, accounting, "business" or (perhaps worst of all) even marketing.

    Of course, such people have a very hard time seeing beyond the numbers, since they usually have absolutely no understanding of technology, nor what it takes to truly run an effective data center. They insist that the current number of staff are sufficient, even when they clearly aren't, and even when they could easily afford to hire more employees.

    I think this just reflects a greater problem of the American corporate society as a whole. People with actual technical knowledge in a specific field get pushed out in favor of people with meaningless MBAs (but all of the right "connections"). So it's no wonder American productivity and competitiveness is grinding to a halt.

    Other areas of the world, namely Asia, India and Eastern Europe, realize that it isn't the accountants and financiers who provide productivity, but rather the engineers, scientists and technologists. That's why they can build better cars at a far lower cost than their American competitors can, for example. That's why Korea and Japan have broadband networks that put to complete shame anything in America.

    1. Re:Should this be surprising? by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      I don't think that it's a big deal that people with diverse backgrounds get into IT. Either they are competent or they are not, and there's no reason someone in finance can't become competent in IT and switch careers.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    2. Re:Should this be surprising? by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think that it's a big deal that people with diverse backgrounds get into IT. Either they are competent or they are not, and there's no reason someone in finance can't become competent in IT and switch careers.

      No problem, but put them at the end of the very long line of folks whom already know what they're doing.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Should this be surprising? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't think the parent is talking about the people actually setting up the servers, installing hardware or software, designing the networks, and monitoring it all, but rather the management who tells them what to do.

      I haven't worked in IT in a long time, but when I did in the '70s and mid-'80s, everyone in management, even up to the CTO or CIO or VP of Technology, had degrees and extensive background in electrical engineering or computer science. This was true at the five separate companies I worked for during that time, from insurance to healthcare to large engineering firms.

      From my relatives who work in IT at various places, I hear this isn't the case any longer. Most of their managers were brought in externally, and aren't technical at all. Some of them were saying that they spend more time fighting their management for basic resources than they do actually performing their IT duties.

      - James

    4. Re:Should this be surprising? by jittles · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's why they can build better cars at a far lower cost than their American competitors can, for example.

      Ahh I was somehow under the false impression that they were able to make cheaper cars due to lower wages, less environmental regulations, and the lack of labor unions.

    5. Re:Should this be surprising? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd be surprised. Remember the US (and other developed nations) are the beacons of advanced nations, so what you usually get in the developing nations is not an understanding of the reasons the advanced nations are advanced but more of a lets do what they're doing mind set which squarely focuses on the now.

      So in the end you get an even worse situation. I live in a developing country and it's already the MBA's and connections and "soft skills" that are taking/took over. Expect to get nowhere like this.

      I understand the importance of those individuals after actually getting there, but sustaining and/or building a nation? No way...

    6. Re:Should this be surprising? by Himring · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IT will forever baffle the top brass in most companies. Your dollar-men didn't get their via tech, but by handling the blood of the place -- the money. Engineers -- or those with that inclination and aptitude -- stay in the lower echelons. Those at the top are the game players, politically savvy -- honestly, cold. I think most engineer-types dolefully lack the ability to play the political games needed to rise to a CO position in a company. Is it any wonder that CIOs are the least positions to ever make CEO?

      All of this being said: a data center is technology, and technology is a mystery. To top it off, it's not getting any easier to understand. "Cloud computing? What's that?" Says the old CO who still uses an AOL account ... that he hasn't logged into in years....

      Bottomline: spending money on tech is always something the big brass knows they have to do, but do so begrudgingly....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    7. Re:Should this be surprising? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> So it's no wonder American productivity and competitiveness is grinding to a halt.
      Actually American productivity has made tremendous gains during the recession as more people are stuck doing the jobs of their laid-off colleagues along with their regular jobs, all for the same pay.
      I do completely agree that the managers are only interested in short-term results, and the only goal of government policies is to increase the power of government which is used to justify the greedy pay and benefits of the ruling class.

    8. Re:Should this be surprising? by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ahh I was somehow under the false impression that they were able to make cheaper cars due to lower wages, less environmental regulations, and the lack of labor unions.

      Actually it only takes about $2K of labor to build all cars and trucks. Some robot factories cost less, some cost more.

      Most of the revenue goes to executive bonuses.

      I'll buy American made, Japanese managed, cars. But I won't buy Mexico made, American managed, cars.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    9. Re:Should this be surprising? by gusmao · · Score: 1
      This is not a problem specific to data centers, but rather to IT in general.

      In the company I work for, the development team was first reduced by half (all contractors were let go), and then further sliced by 20%. Nobody from the business/management side was dismissed, and keep in mind that those people's job is just to tell the engineers what to do. Things got to the point that now we have more people giving orders than people to actually follow them through.

      Meanwhile, the deadlines got more aggressive, the plans more grandiose, and micromanagement ever larger. Funny thing is, when the projects are late or incomplete, the IT guys are somehow to blame for it.

    10. Re:Should this be surprising? by TheLink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are also the past commitments the companies made like hefty pension schemes.

      If your company never got itself into those, costs are lower. Otherwise you might find that one worker has to be productive enough to pay for 2 retirees, (as well as the CEO's cut ;) ).

      --
    11. Re:Should this be surprising? by assertation · · Score: 1

      Aside from Japan, those countries also have cheaper labor so cost is less of an issue with hiring

    12. Re:Should this be surprising? by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      nope. if for less money they can come up to speed fast enough and become sufficiently competent in what needs to be done, then they are the right person for the job. If that pisses off those who "already know what they're doing", it might mean they overvalue that knowledge and experience. of course 'fast enough' and 'sufficiently competent" are highly subjective terms.

    13. Re:Should this be surprising? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'll buy American made, Japanese managed, cars. But I won't buy Mexico made, American managed, cars.

      I don't trust the cars today, and if you go into the past you automatically get into buying German cars from Germany, American cars from Estados Unidos Norteamericanos instead of Mexico, Japanese cars from Japan, etc. Every car I've ever owned has actually been built in the country that hosts the automaker. Most of them have been crap anyway :)

      It's not that I think there's no good cars being made now, it's that there hasn't been enough time to figure out which ones are good...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Should this be surprising? by Fastfwd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually it only takes about $2K of labor to build all cars and trucks

      That's probably true of most things/services. There is an amazing amount of "friction"(ie: added cost) from all levels of management, marketing, etc. Some of it is necessary, a lot of it is not. It's strange that the people you are 100% sure you need(engineers/builders) are often at the bottom of the salary food chain.

    15. Re:Should this be surprising? by maxume · · Score: 1

      What does most mean? Here are Ford's income statements, it sure doesn't look like most of anything is going to executives:

      http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=F&annual

      Alan Mulally does appear to get quite a lot of money each year:

      http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0709/gallery.women_men_highest_pay.fortune/20.html

      But $50 million isn't really that much compared to $150 billion. I guess there could be thousands and thousands of executives that get million dollar bonuses, but I doubt it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    16. Re:Should this be surprising? by diamondsw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's why they can build better cars at a far lower cost than their American competitors can, for example.

      Ahh I was somehow under the false impression that they were able to make cheaper cars due to lower wages, less environmental regulations, and the lack of labor unions.

      In Japan and South Korea? Are you joking? These countries are the very essence of technology-driven.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
    17. Re:Should this be surprising? by Eskarel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be honest, Ford is the least incompetent and corrupt US auto manufacturer by a rather long stretch. Of course they're not really entirely a US auto manufacturer anymore either, but that's really beside the point.

      Unions have certainly gone too far. Particularly in regards to the ratios of show stewards(I think that's the term) to actual workers. In some places it got as bad as a two to one ratio, so a total of 1/3 of the people who were actually supposed to be doing things were useless, not even counting all the usual dead wood. That said though, management incompetence is still one of the top three reasons companies like this go down.

      I don't know if a union is really the answer in IT, or in any professional job for that matter, but that doesn't mean that you have to bend over and take it. IT skills are really something you can learn or something you can't, and to be honest there aren't really all that many of us in the "can" pile and not all of us end up in IT. Just because your job could be filled by some idiot who paid 5 grand for someone to give him a few useless certifications doesn't mean that that idiot can actually do your job. Competent people are actually fairly rare, that's why you end up answering calls at 3 am in the first place. Certainly some degree of out of hours work is part of doing a support job, but if you're working 80 hours a week and getting paid for 40, you're probably making such a low hourly wage that you don't really have anything much to lose, even in this economy.

    18. Re:Should this be surprising? by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're confusing Sweden with China. In Sweden (and most of Western Europe) environmental regulation is actually tougher than they are in the U.S. And wages are not that far behind ours.

      Funny you should make that mistake when all the right wingnuts are making so much noise about the imaginary conspiracy to turn the U.S. into a "European Socialist" economy that can't compete at all:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/opinion/11krugman.html?em

    19. Re:Should this be surprising? by 7213 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I don't know if a union is really the answer in IT, or in any professional job for that matter"

      I think that's where your making your mistake. Trying to put my substantial ego aside, the business is trying there damnedest to make Datacenter IT folk a commodity, and it's working. We're decidedly not unskilled laborers but in most cases, no matter what we want to beleave, we can be replaced without a big impact to the bottom line. You are not a beutifull and unique snowflake. There is a substantial part of Systems Administration work that CAN be done from halfway across the globe, or by the guy in the cube next to you (or who's resume just hit the boss' desk).

      Part of this comiditization is eliminating overtime pay, not respecting personal time and expecting we're available 24x7x365 for whatever whim management has.

      A union, or similer group, are the collective bargening leverage that would make my (& your?) personal time a thing the company must value. Forcing the employer to have to take into account when the CIO is playing Veruca Salt on a Saterday "I WANT IT NOW!" for the project he'll end up canceling by Tuesday.

      I'm not a fan of unions, don't get me wrong, but I think the pendulum is swinging too far in the directions of a Dickens novel these days & rugged individualism isn't fixing it.

    20. Re:Should this be surprising? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Actually it only takes about $2K of labor to build all cars and trucks. Some robot factories cost less, some cost more.

      Most of the revenue goes to executive bonuses.

      Citation?

    21. Re:Should this be surprising? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Trying to put my substantial ego aside, the business is trying there damnedest to make Datacenter IT folk a commodity, and it's working.

      And what is so wrong with that? There's no real reason why IT work, i.e. being a Data Janitor, should be an artisan skill. The whole IT business is, what is the word for it? Automation. Yes, that's the term that I think gets used.

    22. Re:Should this be surprising? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      "Cloud computing? What's that?" Says the old CO who still uses an AOL account ... that he hasn't logged into in years....

      The interesting fact is that the 'old CO' can get by without knowing the buzzword-of-the-moment. The real work is getting done, the numbers are looking fine, and product is getting produced, sold, and shipped. The filing clerks, the people who keep toner in the printers, and the other people performing custodial tasks like IT can fritter away in their little enclaves and trade jargon and fad ideas all they like.

      BTW: how is the dude 'still using an AOL account' if he hasn't logged into it for years? Maybe 'the Internet' (that icon on the machine with Windows 95 on it in his basement) isn't very important in the circles he travels in.

      Don't start sputtering and go furious at that last sentence. I meant 'the Internet' as represented by that icon. Everybody knows how significant the Internet Revolution has been on business practices. Why, paperclips are even a different shape now. Manilla file folders come with a barcode on them!

    23. Re:Should this be surprising? by jittles · · Score: 1

      Well, that was why I included unions into the equation. It is the pension programs that the unions helped negotiate that are so costly.

    24. Re:Should this be surprising? by jittles · · Score: 1

      Sweden may have stricter standards than the US, but I think the US has stricter standards than Korea, China or India. I'm not sure about Korea though.

    25. Re:Should this be surprising? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "That's why they can build better cars at a far lower cost than their American competitors can, for example.

      Ahh I was somehow under the false impression that they were able to make cheaper cars due to lower wages, less environmental regulations, and the lack of labor unions."

      A false impresion indeed. Germany is not under lower wages, less environmental regulations and have strong unions. Despite of that they manage to build BMWs, Audis or Mercedes.

    26. Re:Should this be surprising? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Then you were under the wrong impression. Many of the "Japanese" cars on the market in the U.S. were made in the U.S. following U.S. environmental regs and paying better than the union wage.

    27. Re:Should this be surprising? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Only because, in spite of knowing those obligations existed, they chose to blow them off year after year and hope they could screw the retirees later.

    28. Re:Should this be surprising? by 7213 · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with it: unless your me & on the other side of it ;-)

      Seriously, I think you just made the point I was trying to make in a shorter post. We are being comoditized, because we must be for the sake of progress. And there are too many of us who think we're a 'beautiful & unique snowflake' who could never be steamrolled by progress.

      Not just us data janitors, but so goes the life of the source code assembly line workers before us.

      NOW is the time to unionize, not latter when we can be replaced in a second. There's nothing wrong with being comoditized, there is something wrong with not realizing it.

    29. Re:Should this be surprising? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Well if you were a 50+ year old CEO in the 1960-1970s, you'd be satisfying the unions back then (thus get things moving and save your job), and hardly anyone blames you in 2010 when the company goes bust. So why care?

      It's similar on a country scale. There is a temptation in democracies for politicians to bribe the voters with money from the voters AND future generations of voters.

      That's why smoking and obesity is good in some cases - these "costs" tend to die off earlier, rather than collect $$$ for extra decades and then eventually die of something that's still expensive (and paid by the medical plan too ;) ).

      --
  9. What is "understaffed" by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe understaffed means no one (in the US) is replying to the following ad:

    Want to hire data center cat5 cable install tech, mandatory 60 hr week overtime, weekend 2nd 3rd shift and holidays required, require CCIE, MBA, at least masters level degree (prefer phd), minimum ten years experience with "windows server 2008R2" yearly salary $25K/yr no benefits.

    Golly, we got us a shortage, best open the H1B floodgates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:What is "understaffed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wait, you mean you've read the ad from my company?

    2. Re:What is "understaffed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is a topic we should talk of more. Currently is see a LOT of jobs with this kind of advertisement. On the other hand they require a lot of stuff that took maybe 6-12 years to amass and then they want you to do a job to which your clearly overqualified to do.*

      But then I only work 30 h a week to start with (I don't need more money). What the hell do I know of stuff like this.

      * Just for the privilege of complaining about workers who dont commit.

    3. Re:What is "understaffed" by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      ... require CCIE, MBA, at least masters level degree...

      You forgot SAP, Oracle and MCTS.

      ... minimum ten years experience with "windows server 2008R2"...

      No, no, you'll attract all the old forgies. You should specify "windows server 2011R4". I guarantee you'll attract the very best!

    4. Re:What is "understaffed" by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      > You should specify "windows server 2011R4".

      Make sure they have 4 years experience in "windows server 2011R4" too.

    5. Re:What is "understaffed" by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Is someone twisting your arm to take this job? Are you being coerced?

      Don't whine and blame "corporate America" when you find out your CS degree doesn't guarantee you a $125k a year salary with a company car and medical cover. That boat sailed long ago, and you're not the first / you won't be the last to realise it. You are a commodity now. You're either a prodigy and make yourself very well known, or you fade into the pool of imported skills and labour, many of whom come from backgrounds where your idea of "a hard day's work" is vacation time.

      Someone else is willing to work harder than you for less money. Either lower your expectations, change your work ethic, or prepare to be swept aside by 10 others who aren't as pompous.

      Things change. Adapt.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:What is "understaffed" by BVis · · Score: 1

      There's a huge gap between $25k/no benefits/mandatory insane hours/no dignity and $125k and Cadillac benefits packages. How about $60k (adjusted up/down for COL where you are), medical coverage, 401k, reasonable leave time/holidays, rotating call coverage/overtime, and a working environment that doesn't make you want to rip your own fingers off to improve your situation?

      How about just some of those? Or any, for that matter?

      Honestly, I'd get 25k/yr and medical coverage if I were unemployed. I couldn't afford to take a job like the one the GP described.

      (I'm sure someone will point out the unemployment benefit number and start bitching and whining about the 'welfare state' and how there's no incentive to get a job blah blah. YOU try supporting a family on a $25k pay rate that only lasts six months, then you can complain.)

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    7. Re:What is "understaffed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're missing the point here. Windows Server 2008R2 has been out less than a year...certainly less than 4 years. I went through a series of interviews with various companies years ago in which I was asked if I have 5 years experience with DotNet. DotNet had been around for about 6 months at the time.

      It's not pompousness. Although I quickly got there. I'd have some HR person ask me the question to which I would respond with a "no" qualified with why. They only ever heard "no" and would tell me I didn't meet their requirements. I got tired of trying to explain that it wasn't possible. I went so far as to tell one recruiter that anyone who said they could meet those requirements was lying to them. I got laughed at.

      I might be a commodity when I'm on the market for a job. When I've been with an employer for 5 years or more I'm worth more to that employer than I am to a prospective employer. I'm not a commodity. I'm an knowledge store. I document my work but I don't need my documentation. I'm efficient in ways a new employee can't be until they've been here for years. The new PHB doesn't realize it. He's cut our staff by 15%, insulted us with the raises offered, put ridiculous demands on a smaller work force, and generally annoyed the hell out of us.

      Most of us have taken this career path because we want to adapt. We want to learn. We want to keep up. We enjoy it. What we don't enjoy is watching companies treat us like cheap mules after we've spent years ensuring they are successful. I work for a privately owned company. The owners brag about their record revenues, show off their pretty toys (cars, motorcycles, etc). Meanwhile they tell us they have no money to give us a raise that isn't an insult. They increase their standard of living while telling us to tighten our belts. I don't want all the toys. I just want to provide a comfortable life for myself and my family. The cost of living goes up and my compensation doesn't.

      I know. Shut up or get out. I'll be getting out before long. I have a feeling this is the case with a lot of people. I see a big shake-up coming across IT in general. Companies have taken the chance this economic downturn has provided them to screw over their valuable employees. They've squandered their good will. People are going to leave their jobs because of this and companies are going to lose a LOT of their knowledge base.

    8. Re:What is "understaffed" by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 0, Troll

      How about $60k (adjusted up/down for COL where you are), medical coverage, 401k, reasonable leave time/holidays, rotating call coverage/overtime, and a working environment that doesn't make you want to rip your own fingers off to improve your situation?

      There will always be somebody who's willing to take $55k. Like I said, "the market" decides what you get paid. If you don't like the pay, you find another job / sector and work your ass off getting a job there.

      I somehow knew I'd be modded troll, but I see it as more "-1 Uncomfortable Truth." Coming out of University with $xx,000 in debt and a qualification another 1m people across the country also got isn't the way it's done anymore, but business hasn't caught up. They want the Degree level education of a graduate, but the lower expectation of an unqualified H1B employee. They get the latter, as it costs less, and at the moment the bottom-line is the bottom-line. The question is whether you're willing to slip yourself into that segment in order to get experience, or become part of the "welfare state" so to speak.

      FWIW, a friend of mine left his cushy job as QA for a large game publisher around 4 months ago and went onto benefits (contract ended, so he qualified). His outgoings are less by as much as I earn more than he gets in benefits, so we have a comparative lifestyle. The difference is that when he comes to seek employment, he has to explain why he's been a bum for 6 months. I only have to use the words "Economic downturn. I didn't want to go on benefits." to explain why I took lower pay than the job is worth. He benefits short term.

      It won't last forever, and we can benefit long term. Just got to play by their rules for a while.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:What is "understaffed" by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I didn't miss the point. The Decade in experience with 2008R2 was obviously put in there as a joke. You must have not gotten that.

      The end of my reply to the other child post is essentially a summary of what you've said; They make insane demands, don't get them met, ship in H1B workforce and reap short term reward. In the end, they'll fail. That doesn't help you now, though.

      My point is very much "If you can't stand the heat..." There are plenty of jobs available, just not jobs a graduate of the past 10 years would expect to do. Still jobs which can lead to very good careers, though. Cable monkey for $25k is better than beatnik for $0k. Have to play the game by today's rules, not yesterdays.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    10. Re:What is "understaffed" by ITJC68 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The sick part is this is what you see. They want all this experience and pay nothing. I don't know about everyone else but getting degrees and certifications "cost" money to obtain. When the IT guys (myself included) stop selling ourselves short then the market will change. The problem is they starve some out and they will take a job they are overqualified for and get paid peanuts then the rest of the industry thinks this should be the norm. I have been in IT for over 10 years and this trend has not changed. At least not in the midwest. I see more jobs with temp to hire, wanting all these certifications and experience but the pay doesn't match. Go in the interview and if you ask for "proper compensation consideration" and you know you won't get the job because they mark you as greedy. In this job climate this is what you are going to see. It is an employers market. With over 10% out of work this is the way they want it.

    11. Re:What is "understaffed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's not his point.

    12. Re:What is "understaffed" by rastilin · · Score: 1

      I didn't miss the point. The Decade in experience with 2008R2 was obviously put in there as a joke. You must have not gotten that.

      It wasn't a joke

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    13. Re:What is "understaffed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the requirements for JAVA developer job I tried to apply for and explain to the HR the impossible requirement back the late 1990's. The JAVA job required 10-15 years of hands-on JAVA work and the HR refused to accept the fact that was impossible claim for anyone to make in the late 1990's.

    14. Re:What is "understaffed" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      They want all this experience and pay nothing. I don't know about everyone else but getting degrees and certifications "cost" money to obtain.

      I'm confused by those sentences. Did you want experience, or wallpaper artists?

    15. Re:What is "understaffed" by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      That's why IT people need to get over conservative propaganda and their own egos and get a damned union already. There is nothing about unions that limits your earning potential (see athletes, actors) or shelters the lazy (as if union workers want to do someone else's work any more than you do) that isn't at least as prevalent at non-union shops.

    16. Re:What is "understaffed" by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      The new PHB doesn't realize it. He's cut our staff by 15%, insulted us with the raises offered, put ridiculous demands on a smaller work force, and generally annoyed the hell out of us.

      That's why man invented unions.

    17. Re:What is "understaffed" by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Cable monkey for $25k is better than beatnik for $0k.

      Those aren't the only two choices.

      Further anybody with half a brain can earn better then $25k just by going independent.

      25K/year isn't even tweaker recycling scrap metal with a beat up pickup money.

      The Mexicans in front of HomeDepot won't work for that daily wage.

      The 25K/year cable monkey job will stay unfilled (as it was designed to do).

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re:What is "understaffed" by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      They want all this experience and pay nothing. I don't know about everyone else but getting degrees and certifications "cost" money to obtain.

      I'm confused by those sentences. Did you want experience, or wallpaper artists?

      [Managers] want all this experience [from prospective employees] and [will only] pay nothing. I don't know about everyone else but getting degrees and certifications "cost" [me] money to obtain[, so I need a certain salary to recoup my investment].
      Easier?

    19. Re:What is "understaffed" by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Golly, we got us a shortage, best open the H1B floodgates

      How to not hire American workers

  10. One small part of the study by jamesl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The original Symantec study listed seven bullet points and staffing was number four.

    Staffing and budgets remain tight with half of all enterprises reporting they are somewhat/extremely understaffed. Finding budget and qualified applicants are the biggest recruiting issues. Seventy-six percent of enterprises have the same or more job requisitions open this year.
    http://www.symantec.com/about/news/release/article.jsp?prid=20100111_01

    More important and certainly more interesting was the finding:
    ... the study found that mid-sized enterprises (2,000 to 9,999 employees) are more likely to adopt cutting-edge technologies such as cloud computing, deduplication, replication, storage virtualization, and continuous data protection than small or large enterprises to reduce IT costs and manage increasing complexity.

    1. Re:One small part of the study by Spad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really surprising; they fall into the range of companies who tend to have enough money to invest in new tech but lack the corporate clusterfuck that stops them from achieving any kind of change.

    2. Re:One small part of the study by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      "First we're gonna deduplicate it, then we're gonna replicate it! Why? Cutting edge cost savings, that's why!!!"

  11. Not all managers are oblivious by mc1138 · · Score: 1

    Thankfully I work for a company, that while it wants to cut costs all the time, they aren't ignorant of what needs to happen to make things run. Both my immediate supervisor and the manager one level up feel that there might be some staffing issues, and are taking the time to get a full data center assessment to both identify areas we are lacking, help with a road map, and most importantly put it all in a language the higher ups can understand and appreciate.

  12. Data Centers by electricbern · · Score: 5, Funny

    1. Lay off staff 2. Hire Oompa-Loompas 3. Profit!

    --
    alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls /dev > il && tail daemon.log'
    1. Re:Data Centers by electricbern · · Score: 2, Funny

      Due to cost cuts the previous post has no brs.

      --
      alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls /dev > il && tail daemon.log'
    2. Re:Data Centers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Due to cost cuts the previous post has no brs.

      Due to cost cuts the previous poster is a web monkey with no semantic HTML skills.

    3. Re:Data Centers by DaFallus · · Score: 1

      It works because they think they have a good union, but they don't. They're basically slaves.

      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
  13. Well duh! by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Funny

    The vast majority of companies said they are having trouble finding enough money and enough qualified applicants to keep their data center staff at healthy levels.

    It's because they filter out qualified people who use an AOL email account!

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  14. Shouldn't a good Data Centre...? by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't a good data centre be staffed by no one at all?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Shouldn't a good Data Centre...? by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      Well, you need someone to clear the bugs, cockroaches and moths, otherwise the systems will eventually be filled with bugs.

    2. Re:Shouldn't a good Data Centre...? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Windows needs constant baby sitting.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Shouldn't a good Data Centre...? by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Windows ME called; they'd like their meme back.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    4. Re:Shouldn't a good Data Centre...? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Windows ME called; they'd like their meme back.

      As soon as Vista stops crashing* on me, I'll get right on that.

      *Vista did an update. Now when it boots it says "Critical error. Machine will restart in 1 minute". I'm also getting a BSOD every once in a while, but it doesn't stay on the screen long enough to read.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  15. Not only data centers by bogaboga · · Score: 3, Informative

    Banks are "guilty" of under staffing too. You call a bank for help or a query on something very dear to you and here's what you are likely to face:

    1: A long wait for service after being informed that they've been "receiving higher than normal call volumes..."

    2: You then face a menu system that tries to keep you away from speaking to any human being...

    3: When you finally get to speak to a one, this human being knows nothing about what you need...or cannot help you!

    4: Or if he/she can be of any help, their accent makes you take "too long" to actually get service...

    5: When you decide to 'attack' your branch office to "actually get service", you realize that you are dealing with a fella who is paid small amount of cash...almost minimum wage...that they are actually inefficient...

    These financial institutions are guilty guilty guilty too.

    1. Re:Not only data centers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4: Or if he/she can be of any help, their accent makes you take "too long" to actually get service...

      Doesn't it scare anyone that their personal sata: DOB, SSN, Mother's Maiden name, etc... is being scattered willy nilly all over the World by these banks?

    2. Re:Not only data centers by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      My bank has none of these problems. When I call their main number, I go through an automated security system to identify and authenticate myself. I'm then transferred directly to a rep at my local branch, who already has my account information up.

      Of course my bank is small, 5 branches and a central office. The issues you describe are inherent to larger national banks. I wouldn't classify them as "guilty" as if it were a crime or a weakness. Those issues you describe are a combined cost savings and complaint deterrent measure; it makes it much harder for you to successfully contest charges and fees. That is part and parcel with having the advantages of such a large bank (i.e. greater banking services and ATM locations).

      You could avoid those problems by simple picking a smaller financial institution that is more focused on the satisfaction of their individual members.

    3. Re:Not only data centers by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Is why I've always done my business with Credit Unions. Even when I worked for First Union (merged with Wachovia, bought by Wells Fargo). And yeah, I call in, hit 0, I'm speaking with someone just 6 miles away. Very easy to work with. Also, Credit Unions, being non-profit, tend to be more conservative in their lending and less likely to fail. There's still been a lot of CU failures in the last 2 years but nothing near the rate of banks. Pretty safe for regular folks to keep their money in.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    4. Re:Not only data centers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think you forgot a step between 3 and 4...getting hung up on several times so they can close out their call tickets and put "disconnected by caller" in the logs.

  16. Cloud computing is cheaper? by Vermyndax · · Score: 1

    Is this why cloud computing is supposedly cheaper (right now)? Someone should look at this as a data point and consider what the remedy might do to that cheap cloud computing. Here's a dot - it should be connected.

    1. Re:Cloud computing is cheaper? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, here's one idea: there's a shitload of houses sitting empty all over the country. Perhaps the time has come for micro-data-centers which also provide lodging to their couple of employees. Sure, economies of scale provide some benefits. But in a cloud model there's less penalty for having computers scattered all over the planet...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. The % would be higher except... by Zarf · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... most of the data center staff we tried to poll were too busy to answer the poll.

    --
    [signature]
  18. Start here by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    http://www.infrastructures.org/

    There's more, but it's a good start.

    --
    Deleted
  19. Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    12 hour shifts are not the answer as well makeing people work every weekend holiday night while the boss / PHB never does any of that.

    Don't like it, find another job.

    Then, I'll jump in and take it. I would love to have that job.

    Of course, one day, all of that will be automated and they're will be just one guy with a GED to make sure everything is plugged in but, before that it will be sent to cheap countries.

    In the meantime, get on your knees every morning and thank your personal god that you have a job.

    1. Re:Whatever. by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the meantime, get on your knees every morning and thank your personal god that you have a job.

      It's attitudes like that why wages stagnate. Gonna get flamebait for this, but what happened to the yankee spirit? The Founders would puke at the current complacency.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the meantime, get on your knees every morning and thank your personal god that you have a job.

      It's attitudes like that why wages stagnate. Gonna get flamebait for this, but what happened to the yankee spirit? The Founders would puke at the current complacency.

      It's called living with reality and the economy.

      There are so many unemployed people out there that sticking up for yourself just isn't feasible. They can just can you and replace you. IT skills are a penny a dozen and considering how many qualified IT people are being pumped out in third world countries....

      I can't believe your were modded up.

    3. Re:Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Gonna get flamebait for this, but what happened to the yankee spirit?

      Outsourced.

    4. Re:Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I can't believe your were modded up.

      He was modded up because he's absolutely right.

      America was not built with "outsourcing" in mind.
      When the going get's tough, you get off your ass and get tougher!

    5. Re:Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America was built to outsource from England :D
      Lumber, raw materials, etc.
      Same was attempted in Canada with Jean Talon.

      The spirit of DIY and personal entrepreneurship are what's going thin these days - it's all about international corporate allegiance.

    6. Re:Whatever. by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      The Founders would puke at the current complacency.

      The Founders would puke at the idea that there's no such thing as a "career" anywhere anymore, except in Congress.

  20. What they say VS what they do by petes_PoV · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's a survey, folks - not real life.

    If you want to get a true picture of life in a data centre look at what the management actually do, what they spend money on and what they produce. If you rely on the answers they give you'll end up broke very quickly. The only way to tell if datacentres really are understaffed is if they start hiring more people: any other action just shows the lie in their responses.

    When managers say they need more staff, they generally mean they need more cheap staff (often to replace the expensive staff they already have). They could always fill any critical needs very quickly by offering more financial incentives (the only ones that really mean anything), but this almost never happens. Somehow they manage to bumble on with their "staff shortages" and still meet their targets.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  21. Data center woes by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

    16 petabytes storage in production, two dozen or so unix machines, two mainframes, a godzillion Windows servers of the real and virtual variety, and 12 sites to service, two of which have not been migrated to our mainframe system yet and are using old, out of service systems that are not being properly maintained. 12 hour 1-man shifts after the last lay-offs (firings).
    All of that is shared between two sites and only two people per day. God yes, we are understaffed. Granted, we're in a transitory period, but still. It sucks. I used to love my job, but now I leave work praying that I managed to catch everything that might have gone haywire before I left out of fear that the two ass-hat tattle-tales who never lift a finger to help anyone but themselves will go straight up and tell the boss(es) that I'm not doing my job in an attempt to make themselves look better. Back when we had two men onboard each night, we had each others back. Now everyone's trying to stab each others back and we can't even cover our own backs enough because there's almost too much work for one person to do.

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
    1. Re:Data center woes by boner · · Score: 1

      Not to forget that the business unit manager sold non-existent capacity in an effort to lock-in his bonus...

      Data-centers are businesses, even if they are wholy owned by the company. The business of a data-center is delivering reasonable service at minimum cost. When you think long and hard about it, you can only conclude that a data-center is in the commodity business. The past ten years have clearly shown what happens to commodity businesses... The main problem however is that data-center competition and customer demand lead to the same end-result: shitty service at an acceptable price. In the end, large data-center screw-ups are rare and most companies do try to make an educated guess on their risk.

      For data-center management to be fun again, we need: better tools, less proliferation of half-baked OSes, standardization of management APIs etc... Is it likely to happen: no, because it is a commodity and not enough people care....

      To make you feel better: when cars where new and exciting, most people knew how to change a flat, check the oil, fix a bulb and manually crank the car, becuase cars would break down. Nowadays the average person may know how to check the oil and change a flat, but only if their dashboard warns them.... The same is true for data-centers, technology is amazingly more robust and easier to manage, to the point that most users don't care or know any better....

    2. Re:Data center woes by scsirob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If it is really as bad as you describe, take a couple of days sick leave. Have them figure it out for themselves that your job isn't easy and that they do not have a backup.

      Perhaps when one of those out-of-service systems dies in the interim, they feel the pain. They may look at you as being a valuable asset.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
  22. Don't forget Western Europe by brucmack · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work for a Swedish company that understands the value of IT and invests resources in it accordingly. Based on my experiences with other Western European countries, this isn't abnormal.

    The difference in work culture between here and the US is astounding. While it seems most American companies see IT as the place to save costs, the companies I've dealt with here recognize that our IT systems contribute directly to our competitiveness in the global market, and invest accordingly.

    1. Re:Don't forget Western Europe by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      The difference may stem from the US tendency to turn EVERYTHING into a data center. Have 100 employees? You need a room full of computers for that! 1:1 server ratio, after all, your team of medical transcriptioners needs sub millisecond response time for their document shares and non-work-related emails about cats saying funny things.

      I don't have any evidence to back it up but I would suspect that more mature companies (read: Western European ones) realize how and where to apply IT. In the US, it was a free for all with no expense spared up until the dotcom crash, which left a lot of people scratching their heads asking "do we really need 50 servers for our company web page that serves 1000 hits a day?"

      There are plenty of US companies that still spare no expense when it comes to IT; the ones that are understaffed are probably almost exclusively the ones that shouldn't be in the business of owning a data center in the first place.

    2. Re:Don't forget Western Europe by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      While it seems most American companies see IT as the place to save costs, the companies I've dealt with here recognize that our IT systems contribute directly to our competitiveness in the global market, and invest accordingly.

      There are some firms like this in America too but the properly run firms with low profiles and steady profits don't often make the news, unless their name is Google, because they are "boring" and "un-interesting" from a news standpoint (and I use the term "news" loosely here because most of the trade rags that publish these sorts of "tech news" stories are little more than front operations for PR firms). In any case, the marketplace and globalization will settle the matter as to which sort of organization is "superior" and the less able tech firms or firms which handle tech less ably will eventually find themselves in receivership; provided that governments don't intervene to preserve "zombie" firms and old ways of doing business at the expense of progress and creative destruction.

  23. Perception by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They are surveying enterprises of certain size, and asking someone (who? the manager?) if their perception is if they are understaffed or not. Similar sized networks could be seen as under or overstaffed depending of how much troubles they have, how much busy they feel, a quiet datacenter with half of the usual staff could be seen as overstaffed if no troubles or most of the common trobles are solved automatically, compared with a chaotic one with lots of troubles. Where i work in a year we passed from a perception of understaffed situation, where troubles jump at every moment, to an almost overstaffed one, same datacenter size, almost half of the people, but better architecture.

  24. Startups don't have data centers by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    Startups outsource data center work to cloud providers. These big companies that are struggling to manage their data centers are really only battling their own inertia and internal vested interests while the world around them changes. There is no reason, from 2010 onwards, for 90% of current data center efforts to not be in one of the clouds. The growth in usage of Amazon's AWS cloud is amazing. Avoiding data center management is the reason nimble companies working to get there.

    1. Re:Startups don't have data centers by 7213 · · Score: 1

      Somebody mod this guy up, that's hilarious.

      say 2012 or so, you might be right, but right now.... not ready yet.

  25. Not so meaningful by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

    These statistics don't mean much.

    The report says 50% of IT executives feel their company's IT is understaffed, 45% say it is appropriately staffed, and 5% say it is overstaffed. But how often do department managers of any type in any situation say they are overstaffed? 5% maybe? And how do these figures compare with the same question asked 5 years ago?

    So what's the next enlightening question? How many IT professionals feel they are underpaid?

    1. Re:Not so meaningful by jacobsm · · Score: 1

      I'll take a wild guess and say 100%.

  26. Re:The other half by Geoff-with-a-G · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Server OS is not the only thing in the datacenter that needs staffing. Facilities work (cabling, power, cooling, etc), SAN, Network infrastructure, and that's without even getting into the middleware or applications themselves.

    Even if your base servers administered themselves, it still takes quite a staff to actually do something with those servers.

  27. Get Your History Right by mpapet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unions were invented to protect unsuspecting workers from manipulative business owners

    No. It was really much simpler than that. People were tired of working for peanuts. Lots of people were tired of working for peanuts. Lots of those people were plenty smart. How else do you think they got organized?

    Before unions, the institution of the 5-day work week was another long, hard-fought, pitched political battle that business was *sure* would absolutely end the U.S. economy. When Ford doubled pay and shrank working hours, the rest of American industry would not follow because from a capitalist's perspective, you are blowing your labor costs out of site! History suggests it seemed to have worked for Ford.

    You don't get to blame organized labor for all of the auto industry's ills. Maybe you recall the Pontiac Aztek as possibly the apex of bad auto product? The labor that allocated resources for that project and a long history of uninspiring ones before that, weren't part of a Union. What's the managerial ratio at those companies 'burdened' by Union labor? What are the managerial labor costs at those firms 'burdened' by Union labor? I think you will find them both expensive and inefficient non-union workforces.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

    It's time to bury that notion that Unions cripple an economy. It's used primarily to reinforce the ridiculous American ideal of 'rugged individualism triumphs over all" and concentrates power and resources to the least efficient few.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Get Your History Right by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      It's time to bury that notion that Unions cripple an economy.

      It's time to bury the early 20th century notion that Unions 'save the workers' from some horrible plight.

      Ford's wage-doubling action was an ideological Taylorist move. It's really surprising to see someone supposedly on "the working man's side" citing it in a positive light.

      But then again, it's all just rhetoric, when it comes to backing The Union Bosses in these sorts of discussions.

    2. Re:Get Your History Right by mpapet · · Score: 1

      It's really surprising to see someone supposedly on "the working man's side" citing it in a positive light.

      Ford's workers were paid more, were more productive, and had more leisure time to spend the more money they had. Ford's business was better off too. Everyone in that arrangement is richer at the end of the day.

      It may be frustrating for some Americans because it is neither a 'Red State' nor 'Blue State' ideology. Too bad it has come to that in the U.S.

      --
      http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    3. Re:Get Your History Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unions reward lazy workers.

    4. Re:Get Your History Right by TopChef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, while Unions may serve a role in blue-collar jobs, I don't agree that they have much of a place it IT jobs. Especially when it comes to protectionism and "seniority". I work at a public university and our IT is unionized. It is basically impossible to fire the old IBM mainframer who refuses to learn anything new because he is retiring in 5-10 years and pines for the old days. So in these difficult budget times, we have to lay off the young, productive staff and are stuck with the useless ones. As is probably typical in the unionized government sector, if you could pick and choose the 20% to lay off, you would save a ton of money and productivity would probably go UP! As it is, you get rid of the modern, young talent and productivity actually goes down far more than the 20% you are laying off.

    5. Re:Get Your History Right by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      You make a good point, but I defy you to correlate the success of foreign auto makers in the US with the decline of US auto makers in the US without noting that unions are a huge part of the equation.

      Let's see, GM, Ford, Chrysler: Unionized.

      Toyota, Huyndai/Kia, Honda: Non unionized.

      They all develop and produce cars inside the US, for the US. They all borrow and/or share designs with overseas companies/subsidiaries/etc. The only real difference is the union status and the parent companies' nationality. I will concede that there is certainly a component of 'Americanism' in play at all levels of management decision making.

      Nevertheless, how can you say with a straight face that a) the US auto makers aren't hindered at all by wildly expensive and inhibiting union contracts, and b) the foreign auto makers would be more competitive if they had unions? That's the burden of proof unions are up against if they want a place in the US going forward.

    6. Re:Get Your History Right by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      You know what would make everyone more productive, give them more leisure time, and make their bosses happy? Eliminating the 25% federal taxes they pay and giving them the time off instead. Employees only work 30 hours and those 30 hours are wildly productive because they get to take home just as much as if they worked 40. Their bosses like that they only have to keep the lights on for three quarters of the time.

      Oh, wait. It turns out that doing something just to make everyone happy doesn't always work out in the long run. Funny, that.

    7. Re:Get Your History Right by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Yes, because private businesses never suffer from waste or bad employees that manage to avoid being fired. The problems you describe aren't due to unions, but due to human beings.

      It is basically impossible to fire the old IBM mainframer who refuses to learn anything new because he is retiring in 5-10 years and pines for the old days.

      And I worked a shop that made Wal-Mart look pro-union, yet they never managed to fire a Navy vet who would spend more time telling management how to run the place than doing his job, when he wasn't sexually harassing female employees.

      Therefore, private businesses are bad and should be banned.

      So in these difficult budget times, we have to lay off the young, productive staff and are stuck with the useless ones.

      There is nothing about unions that prevents bad employees from being fired anymore than at private businesses. And you haven't worked at many non-union shops if you've never had to do the work of another employee that wasn't pulling his own weight. What makes you think union workers are any more happy to do that than you are?

    8. Re:Get Your History Right by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see your point, but there's a flip side to that argument. Just wait until you get older and have to find work.

      The classical career arc that was in place from the late 40s until maybe the mid to late 90s went like this for college graduates:
      - Graduate high school
      - Graduate college
      - Get a company to hire you in some kind of traineeship
      - Work your entire 40-year career for the same or related companies, with a series of progressively responsible positions that were designed to meet your need for more income and responsibility
      - Make progressively more money in a safe job, and not be afraid to do things like buy a house or car.
      - Get a gold watch and retire with full benefits and heartfelt thanks from a company who was happy to have the institutional knowledge preserved for that long.

      For non-college graduates, you could get a job in a factory, work your butt off for 40 years and still come out OK due to union negotiation of wages and benefits. A bachelors' degree wasn't a mandatory admission ticket to a job, so fewer people were burdened by student loans for degrees they didn't even need.

      During this time, there was a huge middle class that was able to spend more money on goods and services. People weren't constantly in fear of layoffs or downsizing. And yes, it came with a price of higher wages and a stronger labor movement.

      Today, the pendulum is back near the other extreme. In IT it's worse, because there's no career path for most people above a certain age. Your example of the mainframe guy is valid...but too many employers think that everyone over 40ish is unwilling to learn anything. I know incredibly talented colleagues have had to get lucky and find companies who value experience over the willingness to work 80-hour weeks to compensate for sloppy processes or bad work. On top of that, inflation of education requirements means that more people are being force-fed through college. That's good for the university system, but bad for the economy. To make an economy flow smoothly, you need jobs tailored for different intelligence levels. A secretary doesn't need a BA in Communications to answer the phone. A factory worker doesn't need an engineering degree.

      I actually like the model of state employment, which follows the classic model. You may not be able to be as much of a rock star in front of your colleagues, but nothing beats job security and safety. The problem, as you point out, is that people do tend to abuse the system as they progress. However, having a steady stream of consumers who aren't afraid to spend real (non-credit) money is what actually drives business.

    9. Re:Get Your History Right by TopChef · · Score: 1

      I call BS. There may be many private companies who don't fire useless people for whatever reason, but that is their CHOICE. In the unionized environment, we are forbidden from the union contract from doing a layoff except in strict seniority order. Big difference.

    10. Re:Get Your History Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see, GM, Ford, Chrysler: Unionized.

      Toyota, Huyndai/Kia, Honda: Non unionized.

      That's in the USA. Toyota, Honda & BMW are all unionized back home in Japan/Germany, and they still make great cars that people want to buy.

      Odd, isn't it?

    11. Re:Get Your History Right by eharvill · · Score: 1
      --
      At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
    12. Re:Get Your History Right by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      In the unionized environment, we are forbidden from the union contract from doing a layoff except in strict seniority order.

      Right, because "first hired, first fired" only applies to unions. Right.

      You BS.

    13. Re:Get Your History Right by TopChef · · Score: 1

      I guess you don't seem to understand the difference between a company stupidly deciding to implement seniority vs. being forced to by union rules.

    14. Re:Get Your History Right by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      No, what I don't understand are working people opposed to job security for working people doing their jobs.

    15. Re:Get Your History Right by TopChef · · Score: 1

      I'm opposed because it is too easily abused. Job security should be based on your skill set and what you can contribute not based on how long you've been there. I work with staff daily whose skill set is 10+ years out of date and they have no interest in learning anything new since they are 5 years or so from retirement. Butthey have seniority so the skilled employees are the ones who are being laid off. Believe me, management would love to keep the skilled staff, but they have no choice.

  28. What to DC drones do? by blhack · · Score: 1

    Forgive the really really stupid question here, but what kind of staff do DCs really need? IO just opened a MASSIVE datacenter in Phoenix (where I live), and I've been trying to get an out-of-work friend of mine to apply there, but neither of us really know what you *do* in a datacenter.

    --
    NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    1. Re:What to DC drones do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on what computers they have. But simply put, you get paid to watch and make sure everything is running and nothing catches fire. Say you have company XYZ that has stores across the globe. Store computers take all sales/inventory/what-have-you and report them to the corporate headquarters Data Center. The Data Center then takes the data, compiles it into reports, then puts the reports into easy information for the middle-managers. The middle managers boil this information down in their own programs for smaller reports for the upper executives. They take this information, build a strategy and go with it.

      Working in a data center in this situation, you would make sure the computers are all running (nothing froze up), all the reports are running in their normal time (Nothing is hanging), no computers crashed or caught fire, and that all the stores are reporting on-time. You follow it up with making sure all the reports go out on time. My first data center had a small print shop where we printed all the daily/monthly/quarterly/yearly reports and distributed them in department mailboxes, which was also mixed in our duties.

      The hard/fun part of a datacenter isn't when things go right, but when things go wrong and you get to fix them.

      And each datacenter is different, too. Some have the physical computers there, with generator rooms for backup power (And you have to do monthly checkups on the generators), others are just a room with terminals where you watch programs to make sure they are running. It all depends on what's going on.

      The sure way to get a job is in the interview say you don't mind working any and all hours they throw at you, you're willing to earn and you always own up to a mistake as soon as it happens.

    2. Re:What to DC drones do? by 7213 · · Score: 1

      What you described is maybe half of the job (and in my opinion not the fun half). The other half is the constant churn of hardware/software upgrades. In a large enough datacenter there's always new equipment coming in and old going out, and those projects can be challanging & fun. I.e. replacing all the switches in a SAN, installing new bladecenters & migrating apps over, etc.

  29. I can cut IT costs by 100% by Gorkamecha · · Score: 1

    Unplug all the users PCs...Given the way most companies calculate their IT cost/benefits it's almost impossible to get an IT budget down to the point that accounting says it's great without just removing IT entirely.

    Most major companies only track ticket closure and uptime as a metric of IT, while other departments get the credit for "innovation". (Sales cut its overhead by 20% instituting a new electronic help desk for customers! In other news, IT is over budget again as trouble tickets have increased 40%)

  30. Is the Glass Half Full or Half Empty? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    Is it possible that Half of All Data Centers Are Overstaffed?

    If the work continues to get done at these 'understaffed' data centers, maybe there's room for some housecleaning at the other data centers.

    I know, I know. Unpopular idea. All kinds of people working in Data Centers who, uh, are hanging out on Slashdot will disagree with me.

  31. I'm conflicted... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    I'm conflicted by this statistic. IT executives will tend to say that their data center is understaffed whether it is or not, (or more importantly whether they know it or not) because it serves to increase their empire.

    That said, I've been in some frightfully understaffed datacenters. It doesn't appear to bear much relationship to the work that actually needs to be done, more so with how good a salesperson the data center manager is. We have two power companies in my area, both do about the same job with about the same amount of yearly sales. Yet one has four times the data center budget than the other. I believe it's more a mark of the drive and character of the IT executives than it is the actual workload.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  32. Unionize or bust!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unionize or bust!!! Past twenty years corporate profits up 354%. Wages up 14%. Not even enough to match inflation (the poor tax). We no longer live in a world of nations, but rather in a world of corporations!!!

  33. WIndows technical edge. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    "get up a script that sends a copy of your Exchange logs to another box"

    Woah! Are you saying you invented syslog for Windows.

    I would patent it. Fast.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:WIndows technical edge. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Woah! Are you saying you invented syslog for Windows.

      Most Exchange admins I know tend to do it the hard way for some reason. *shrug*

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  34. Poor sod. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    No self respect, no self belief, no planning.

    No sympathy from me frankly.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  35. Yeah, blame the unions. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Like if producing gas guzzlers that are inefficient and brake easily is the fault of the unions.

    I thought that the geniuses commanding those huge bonuses, golden hand shakes and parachutes were the ones dictating corporate policy.

    But hey, whatever rocks your boat matey.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:Yeah, blame the unions. by claytonjr · · Score: 1

      Gas guzzlers don't brake easy, they break easy. ;)

  36. Unions work fine for German, British and others. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some of the most productive car plants in the world are there, the Unions in Germany (who actually have input in how the companies are run) would be classed as nothing but communist by most Usians from their brainwashed point of view of world politics.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  37. (cough) Symantec? (cough) by afabbro · · Score: 1

    "Fifty percent of IT executives say their data centers are understaffed, and companies are still looking for more ways to cut costs, according to Symantec's latest 'State of the Data Center' report.

    Gee, you'd almost think Symantec sold software for data center management...oh wait, they do.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
  38. Location of datacentres an issue. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    One recent problem (at least in Europe, I suppose this may be more prevalent in the US) is the tendency of many companies to move, sensibly, datacentres out of town centres or business districts, but then forgetting that most administration can be done remotely (even Windows, ha, ha, ha) and trying to relocate their IT staff in the middle of nowhere as well.

    Any IT person worth hiring would desperately try to find a new job in a civilized place, thus companies are left with people that are not necessarily the best.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  39. Shifts and other professionals by turtleshadow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree with the statement but not the reason.

    Doctors, Nurses, Medical Staff, Police, Fire/rescue often work 12 hour shifts and holiday.

    However those professions realize and have by experience been bitten by the consequences which aid them in helping the professional know their limits and the limits of their peers.

    First these professionals make mistakes during the day. More so when overtired, Even more so when out of their normal sleep pattern. Technology professionals somehow ignore this and think they are superhuman and often promote this.

    "Oh I stayed up all night to fix your server!" Pat me on the back! While probably true, I don't want to hear that sentimentality from my admin. It meant something went horribly wrong and I don't want it to ever happen again.

    Doctors, etc as cited know that they would perform in a diminished capacity the next day and not schedule surgery and/or the hospital management would know to give them a resting day as the liability of mistake be too great. Safety services know that some other station has to possibly cover a crew that just came off a fire/rescue and be very wary to send the same crew back in. Technology companies ignore this to their own embarrassment which is justly earned.

    Second doing business changes (minor or major) on weekends or holiday nights is _bad business_ in that it demonstrates the fragility and unreliability to which they do not admit to customers. Why not do the same operation during normal hours?

      Would anyone take their business' truck to the car mechanic for an Oil change and accept, "well we have to do it between 3am and 4am so as not to impact your business."

    But it's an OIL change, it happens frequently, everyone ought to expect it to happen! This is exactly the same to me as a minor patch, price lists, firewall rules, and application rules for business policy. Such ones are expected, frequent and shouldn't have to be done like as they are now at a forsaken hour in the morning.

    The more complex example is "Oh the engine overhaul is going to be b/w 3 and 4am" - I would say give me another truck that does the same thing and I'll be back after you fix my truck during the day when your awake. The analog is the system upgrade. Providers go into fits -" but but your system was so tweaked, We can't simply move it to another CPU", etc... Blah. Its because most centers don't know how to offer a real solution.

    IT Professionals ought to advance the profession and figure out why they are working 12 hour shifts and holidays and then systematically eliminate these events as much as possible till only having to do so when a human life or safety systems is jeopardized.

    Why IT professionals are not publicly beating up IT vendors for poorly written OS, barely redundant equipment, poorly designed apps, etc, is beyond the scope here.

    Who is going to be the next Ralpf Nader, who will write "Unsafe at Any Speed" for the IT industry/Computing Science.

    1. Re:Shifts and other professionals by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Would anyone take their business' truck to the car mechanic for an Oil change and accept, "well we have to do it between 3am and 4am so as not to impact your business."

      Your analogy is wrong because you're missing the point.

      An oil change is done when the owner doesn't need to use the the car, and hence will not be bothered by its absence. Similarly, things like patching and maintenance are done when the owner (that is, the business) says it doesn't need to use those services - which, since it depends on them to function, is inevitably NOT during regular business hours.

      IT Professionals ought to advance the profession and figure out why they are working 12 hour shifts and holidays and then systematically eliminate these events as much as possible till only having to do so when a human life or safety systems is jeopardized.

      Because few businesses are prepared to pay the cost of completely redundant systems and, in many cases, full redundancy is simply impossible because the relevant application doesn't support it.

    2. Re:Shifts and other professionals by turtleshadow · · Score: 2, Informative

      Analogy and metaphor are never perfect.

      However I stand by my statements. When a vehicle I use for business is not working, it is not making money for me (in fact it is losing money). Oil Changes are actually regularly scheduled preventative maintenance. Its not to be done _just whenever_ I don't happen need the vehicle.

      It is a fact _regularly scheduled_ maintenance is to be performed as normal course of business. It is for sure I want to keep the vehicle operating as much as possible as to why it is done in the first place! It's not that I don't need just then the vehicle -- server or apps. I really need the minor _regularly scheduled_ maintenance change to it to better offer the primary service, and that is what must function perfectly.

      Regularly scheduled IT maintenance ought to be predictable, repeatable, and quick and seen to be done as course of business not late at night on weekends. That time is for really necessary things that can't be done otherwise.

      You bring up regular business hours... but don't realize that means exactly nothing in IT. 06:00-16:00 GMT or 08:00-18:30 EST? What day is not a regular day: Boxing Day, the last Thursday in November for the USA. That the customers (internal or external) will of course be on the IT guy's same calendar schedule is a misjudgment.

      You say that few business are not prepared to pay the cost of a completely redundant system. I'd say that IT models exist where this is not necessary. Virtualized hosts are one way that is just now being explored but conceptually and actually has been around since S/390. The consumers haven't asked to their vendors why redundant systems are so expensive. Business has to vote with their purchasing and vendor allegiances.

      10 years ago you could buy a truck for your company that had more built in "safety systems," "3rd party crash & reliability analysis", and monitoring telemetry than a WinTel server. Today that has changed, HP has improved iLO, IBM has done a bit with RSA, and RealWeasel saved a few butts Im sure.

      Yet, today I still meet admins that don't know without going to google how to collate & leverage the results from SMART, thermo sensors, and serial/terminal console hardware errors. These are "free" predictive monitors when the system is up.

      Fewer out of techschool/university know about IBM RSA, HP iLO, DELL DRAC or similar technologies that you have to use after the server is casters up. I don't see them just as out of band management but "flight data recorders" as well -- if you know how to use them.

      Still missing is the "3rd party crash & reliability analysis." Why purchase IBM over Dell servers? What is the defect rate of Seagate HDD over XYZ? At what rate are PSU failures, rate of memory failures, etc... What are the vendor RMA rates? All this is hidden actually by IT having poor practices. Firestone nearly went bankrupt with its fiasco of popping tires - federal investigations I think were held. If you get a bunch of bad capacitors (The capacitor plague of late 90's) into crucial product lines no one screams, no one calls for investigations. IT scrambles and survives and hopes not to repeat the mistake.

      Any such reliability rating & metrics for software producers of consumer products has been self deemed impossible or too expensive by IT professionals and thus not seriously spoken of anymore. This is the greatest cop out and con job of the 20th and 21st Century.

      A great step forward and yet backward for IT professionalism.

      Lastly, other industries and businesses know how to hire skilled labor to maintain their business _while_ the business is running (Bankers, doctors, nurses, janitorial, construction, plumbers, etc). These skilled professionals know how to effect changes to the work place discretely and to not give bad impressions to the customer.

      IT as an industry isn't picking up the same "we work in the background unnoticed, perhaps just screened off" but instead loudly and obtrusively makes business bend to IT practi

  40. Symantec has zero credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and they are trying to sell you something.

  41. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I admin about a dozen machines. I have never actually been to the datacenter. I only impose on the datacenter people when a physical action needs done, like removing cables, powering it back on, and other things that the KVM or IPMI can't handle. This so far works until the machine requires hardware repair, which has happened once, in which a twin to the machine was scrapped for parts. That is when the data center had to charge us hundreds of dollars for service (I believe they had to call in a contractor for it.)

    Everytime I've gone on vacation (without fail) one of the servers crash... which is why I take my laptop with me. It's like it throws a tempertantrum when I'm not logged in via ssh. D:

  42. In releted news ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... 55% of all data center employees feel that they are overmananged.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  43. I can understand why they might say this... by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

    While this might just be the typical "we don't have enough qualified candidates" complaint to get around H1B requirements, I actually see the point here.

    Some or all of these might be influencing this thinking:
    - Fewer people are taking IT jobs because of the employment prospects, meaning they actually do have an applicant shortage,
    - Companies keep paying less for IT work due to the economic situation and a general erosion of perceived value. This would translate to fewer people wanting to work for that company unless they really needed a job.
    - Especially in data center support, with the advent of PCI, ITIL, HIPAA, SOX, and other standards, IT has become a lot more regimented. Couple that with sometimes unattainable SLAs, and the job becomes more paperwork than process...there's just less to actually do.
    - The study is sponsored by Symantec, who makes truckloads of money selling data center automation products. :-)
    - Companies now see that they don't need their data centers, or at least they don't need them to be right next to headquarters. So let's say the company is in New York or Boston or Seattle - they're going to jump at any chance they can to move their data center to Middle of Nowhere, US. Fewer people want to work in Middle of Nowhere, where the wages are half that of New York. They also don't want to live 100 miles from the nearest city.

    I actually went through the last one...my last company relocated their IT department to the south and I chose not to go. If you've lived in the Northeast your whole life, you might not like living in a place where the weather never goes below 80 degrees and it's 90+ five months out of the year. On the flip side, real estate is half the price there. But in my mind, what good is a huge house if you hate where it's sitting??

  44. Same old story... by YankDownUnder · · Score: 1

    Large corporates want to have IT service, dependability, SLA's on-time, etc etc etc, however, they don't want to pay for proper staffing, consistently hire inexperienced cheaper labour, and whinge about "not having an MCSE"! Right. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. If they don't want to pay for proper staffing, don't want to pay for proper training, don't want to pay for (insert whatever here), then they're not going to get what they want. Having worked in many HUGE corporate structures, I can very easily see that there are MANY employees that are employed that really don't need to be there - and have very little positive function - why not get rid of the chaff in the management structures and make room for those that you really need (IT administration and staff)? IF your data and applications are that important, PAY to protect that asset - instead of trying to always "go the cheap" on the IT.

    --
    YankDownUnder Veni, Vidi, volo in domum redire
  45. This has been getting worse for several years by Whuffo · · Score: 1
    Somehow the management types got the notion that this kind of work was like working on an assembly line. So they observe what goes on for a while, see that there's X failures per month and each tech can fix Y failures - then they do the math and reduce the headcount to just enough to keep up with the status quo.

    That works well until it's time to roll out some new servers - or some new virus / worm raises hell in the server farm. Then there's not enough warm bodies to respond adequately and it's a mess. Of course, its those overworked IT drones that get the blame.

    If management could see that IT people aren't "productive" as much as reactive - and that when you really need them they're worth their pay thousands of times over - then maybe they'd see that having "too many" people isn't such a bad idea.

    I'm not expecting it to change any time soon - too many managers took the same stupid classes earning their MBA and they're not likely to be able to see that you prepare NOW for the disaster that's coming. It's not if, it's when..

  46. dc staffing- tech's POV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wont bitch about working on a 24hr schedule because thats what I agreed to. At our dc, the workflow is too inconsistent to say we are understaffed- rather, we are easily overwhelmed during off-hours if several customers have issues at once.

    My main gripe is that our staff are stretched so thin that we can't use any of our vacation time without screwing over the rest of our coworkers, who have to work 14hr shifts to cover for us. Our biggest time sucks are:

    1. Crappy tools mandated by corporate when we were required to standardize our toolset. When your new ticketing system has bugs in it like "can't send emails through ticket system, and ticket system scrambles the content of any emails sent via exchange", you know you picked a winner.

    2. Managed services customers who are too cheap/lazy to fix chronic problems and would rather pay us to treat the symptoms all day. Windows admins are the worst about this- they would rather pay us $$$ to reboot a server twice a week so they can pretend a problem isn't there...

    Then again, most datacenter techs i know dont stay in that occupation for log.