Slashdot Mirror
The Year of the E-Bicycle
theodp writes "Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans. That may be about to change. At CES this month, Sanyo showed off its sleek, lightweight Eneloop Hybrid Bicycle. Priced at $2,300, the e-bike sports a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat. Press a button on the left handlebar, and a 250-watt motor kicks in, providing about twice as much power as your own pedaling. Some basic e-bike models, like the Ezip Trailz can be had for as low as $500. Both Trek and Schwinn began selling e-bikes last year, and Best Buy is offering e-bikes in three test markets: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Portland, OR."
The price point for these seems way off.
In China, riding an electric bike conveys professional achievement, even a certain degree of wealth. People in the United States, said Ed Benjamin, an independent consultant in the bike business, don't quite know whether these bikes are fashionable. The e-bike is "an ambiguous statement," Mr. Benjamin said.
I'm not entirely sure what the cultural significance of that is, but it must mean something.
Qxe4
Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?
Qxe4
I do bike a lot, but I don't get the point of those e-bikes (except for old people maybe). I'd like to have additional power on long tours but for those these batteries are just additional weight for most of the trip, which you'll feel when going uphill. City trips (less than 20 km) shouldn't wear out a healthy person, so no good point having them there. My bike is 10 kg now and I still think it's too heavy. I don't see a very big market for them. Also, more parts means more things can break.
That, in fact is not the problem. The e-bikes perform quite well on steep climbs and recharge a bit on the way down. The test has been done on the Mont Ventoux without problems. I do have concerns on how long it takes for the battery to lose it's full power capability. Six months? A year, maybe? And what will be the price of a new battery?
Not all ebikes are built alike.
I ride a mid-drive bike. The motor (built into the bottom bracket) is optimized to work with a rider pedaling with a cadence in the 85-90 range, and the bike just doesn't feel right unless you're working along with it. Indeed, one proponent of a competing product has made a point online of calling us "Optibike huffers", referring (I presume) to our tendency to be getting enough of a workout to be panting at the end of a ride. (My commutes are fast, and fun... but not by any means sweat-free; thankfully, work has showers).
My heart rate is regularly in the 150-170 range for about 90 minutes a day while I'm riding -- which is pretty much where it should be for the kind of exercise I'm trying to get -- and the regime has my employer's health coach downright thrilled with my weight loss, lowered cholesterol, lowered resting heart rate, etc.
So -- enough of the stereotyping, 'kay?
Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes. 250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy. Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.
OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful. It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.
It's not the weight. I can easily do that distance around here (some long hills), although my commute is about 33.
It's that I have no place (shower) to become tolerable to my co-workers for the rest of the day.
With an electric (not the silly Sanyo, but a proper one with a decent CG, and the drive to the rear wheel, if I can ever find one), I can "ride" to work and pedal home. Dragging the extra weight of the batteries would be even better exercise (for that trip) than just a bicycle.
A bicycle is unusable for most people where I live because our town is on the sides of a steep sided valley, and the combination of traffic going up the hills at 30mph, and cyclists at 3mph, on narrow English roads, is lethal. To be really useful, an electric bike needs to be able to go up those hills at 20mph.
If there was a political will for this, there would be a Europe-wide specification for an electric bicycle of, say, about 1200W maximum output and a continuous rating of 800, with a test and licence requirement but zero tax and a State-sponsored insurance scheme to overcome the objections of insurance companies, who detest anything new in the way of risk.
Of course there would be a need for new regulations - such as limiting them to 12mph on cycle tracks - but this is nothing that technology couldn't handle (e.g. a "cycle track mode" which flashes a green light, to assist law enforcement.) But an electric bicycle that was fast enough to be safe in European urban traffic would be vastly better than the current situation, where only the very fit can ride a heavy, limited electric bicycle on anything other than the level.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes. 250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy. Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.
OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful. It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.
Errr... according to this:
Lance Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes, something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds. A professional hockey player might last three minutes and then throw up. (source)
...it sounds like you're either an olympic-level athlete... who reads slashdot... or your gym equipment is severely miscalibrated. I've tried those bikes at the gym, and 250W is
my limit for a 10-15 minute stretch, and I'm by no means unhealthy. Are you sure those weren't imperial units? I know the UK has switched to metric, in theory, but I know some of you poms still get confused. 8)
Haven't ridden there in rush hour, so usually there weren't more than a couple other bikes in view. However, I remember ladies riding the bike and protecting themselves from rain with an (opened) umbrella (Netherland is windy, and the wind is not usually steady).
I shudder thinking about biking with an open umbrella, but that seemed so normal to that lady...
I am in Cambridge at the moment and it is great for bikes. I think it may have the largest bike density in Britain. A combination of a University in the town centre and it being pretty flat are probably the main factors. There are lots of good cycle lanes, many one way roads have a cycle lane in the opposite direction so the one way system hardly affects cyclists. Around the town centre bike is the fastest way to get around, you get more possible routes, and at traffic lights you can just cycle straight past the queuing traffic. Plus with so many cyclists cars watch out for bikes and are considerate generally. It can get a bit crazy around lecture switch over times though and parking your bike can be a problem if you are going to a lecture even though they probably have several hundred places where you can lock your bike (at one busy area near several lecture theatres).
York is good too. York actually has a higher proportion of resident cycle commuters than Cambridge, but Cambridge wins out during term time due to the student population. The fact that both are old citied and the narrow streets would gridlock immediately if everyone tried to drive, is also a factor. Once when cycling across York I beat an ambulance with it's sirens going (and I obey traffic lights, unlike some).
I worked in Houston for a few years - over off Nasa Road One.
I used to walk to work - wasn't that far. A mile or so...
Two things stand out:
a) every few days, someone would stop and ask if I was ok and whether I needed a lift.
On one hand, it was great to see so many caring people. But it just shows that they never
saw people walk before.
b) the path actually went up to people's front doors, so I had to either walk on the road, or follow the path into people's
property. Weird. Again - not built for pedestrians.
Phoenix was a dream to me, I lived there for a year and half and it was growing, so it might suck now. Back in 96 and 97 I rode all over the place on my bike, I took off from my apartment at 27th ave and Camelback, rode around American West Arena, the big downtown library, went to 27th street and Camelback to hang out at my favorite coffee shop, then rode home all the way down Camelback, I estimated that trip to be over 30 miles by looking at a map site years ago, I'm sure I could a more accurate guess by using Google maps now, but it was a dream. I rode on sidewalks I could drive a car down nearly the whole way.
I don't want to hear that lycra shirt wearing cyclist douche talk about sidewalks being a dangerous place for bikes. I was a BMXer, completely different from your useless breaks Trek bike. In Arizona it's perfectly legal to ride on the sidewalk and they went over this with me when I was in defensive driving (yes, speeding in my truck). If you're on the sidewalk you follow pedestrian laws, if you're on the street you follow motor vehicle laws. I did a lot of curb hopping to hit the greens. :-)
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
As an avid cycle commuter I spent 3 years in the 90's in Houston: after experiencing that cycling was impractcal, inconvenient and not entirely safe in the 290/1960 area and then around the Galleria, I did commute to downtown from the Montrose area; and, as posted above, if one stay inside the loop, biking is not so bad, but outside is totally a nightmare.
Note: After Houston I lived in Portland Oregon and now Munich Germany, both of which are a totally different world where cycling is a normal, expected, desirable, supported and respected form of transportation.
As noted by others, the problems in Houston are multifold: designed only for cars, citizens do not expect to see bicycles (= lack of safety), cycling is not respected or desired, etc.) --- the most difficult aspect to comprehend is how socially undesireable it is to be a cyclist in Houston (or most of Texas for that matter): everyone assumes that anyone on a bicycle is either too poor to own a car or pay for gas or has had his driver's license revoked for DWI. When I used to commute the 4 miles to downtown my colleagues would continuously offer me a ride home, ask compassionately what finincial problems i had and if they could help (i couldn't possibly be choosing to cycle so it must be because i had no money!), offer to loan me money, etc. Even after I explained that my car was all good and well but sitting at home in the garage, they simply didn't believe me! THAT is an anti-cycling environment!
P.S. although I love the percetant of bicycle usage in the Netherlands, I do not believe its bike system should be taken as the model, as its system is based on "separate but equal" facilities for bikes, autos and pedestrians (i.e. lots of bike lanes but bikes are generally forbidden to ride on the roads if bike paths are available). Germany follows a similar system in theory where cyclists are often grouped with pedestrians (leads to higher rate of minor accidents), but in practice is somewhat less restrictive as fewer bike paths are available. (It has been shown numerous times in studies that the safest system in urban areas involes biking not on completely separate facilities (i.e. bike paths) nor along with pedestrians (i.e. sidewalks), but along side cars on the roads (either with or without bike lanes), with large numbers of cyclists on the road such that car drivers both expect and respect cyclists on the road).
i've seen bike messengers pedal up fast to delivery trucks
then HANG ON. we're talking 30-40 mph, dense city traffic
can't imagine what the hell they are thinking. i mean if that truck driver hits the brakes fast...
then again i used to room with a bike messenger when i lived in brooklyn, and every other week he would bring home some new constellation of bruises (car doors, etc)
however, i think toronto bike messengers beat new york city bike messengers in the abuse department: one guy held onto a car which swiped him, and the car driver purposefully tried to brush the guy off... into a mailbox, killing him. the car driver was ontario's ex-attorney general who made his name being tough on street racing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bryant_(politician)#2009_criminal_charges
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
mountain biking mecca. And I had much the same experience cycling in the city. There are few bike lanes, but the roads are pretty wide. You wouldn't think there would be a problem. But the motorists often got angry at bicycles simply because they were there. I OFTEN got honked at by passing cars (they'd wait until they were right on your tail or next to you, then HOOOOONK while they yelled out the window) and I got a decent number of things thrown at me.
Worst was a 7-11 double gulp cup that was full. It hit me on the side of the head, the lid came off, I got drenched in Coke and then the edge of the cup got stuck between my crank and my chain causing me to wipe out. I was sticky, covered in soda, and had to walk my bike home and use tools to get the thing out and the bike cranking again.
This was in the '90s before the "national concsiousness of greenness and cycling" hit. Hopefully things are different now.
These days I live in NYC and would cycle everywhere (there are a lot of cyclists and motorists are aware of them) only my wife forbids it, being absolutely terrified that I will succumb to NYC traffic. :-P
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
When I was 10-12 I liked riding my bike to and from two local towns. (No clue how I talked my parents into it.) One was 5 miles away and the other was 8. I went to a day camp in one and 4th grade in the other. Now I didn't ride every day, but maybe once a week and only when it was warm.
Riding home from day camp one day I passed a pickup full of redneck jackasses. 2 up front and 2 in the back. I caught an apple square across the thy, left a bruise that took a few weeks to go away.
Never told my parents, but that was the last time I rode.
So when someone makes logical arguments, they are being bought and paid for by big oil??? When bikers pay into the highway system, then they can have bike lanes. It costs money to build and maintain bike lanes .. how can anyone disagree with bike riders paying their fair share to use them???
.. they would rather fence it off and have my tax dollars pay to maintain it, so a few people can wander around the desert aimlessly for free, get lost in the heat because they didn't bring enough water, and have to be rescued. (Happens every year when it gets hot around here.)
.. maybe if they learned to follow rules people wouldn't get so pissed at them.
This is just like the people around Phoenix who want to fence off mountain areas for the 'enjoyment of the people'. Instead of allow wealthy people to build, and charging them up the wazoo for property tax
Heaven forbid they get on their bikes and ride an hour outside the city where there is MORE than enough room to wander around aimlessly and get lost and no one wants to build there.
We have similar problems with bike riders in Phoenix, which actually HAS bike lanes. I guess bikers are too insecure to ride in single file, I see packs of them on the weekends riding 4 and 5 deep, taking up half the right lane in their funny outfits, even with a clearly marked bike lane. They run stop lights, and dart out across traffic without hand signals.
No wonder people don't want to spend their tax money and throw things at them
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
You forgot washing machines, 2.10x1.20 slabs of 18mm multiplex (wood) and 2x4's. I transported all on a trailer behind my bike, the latter in sufficient quantity to build all my furniture.
Now I live in Sweden where cycling is no nearly as popular as in the Netherlands. Some people look at me like I just climbed out of a flying saucer. They do sell studded tires for bikes here so I can not be the only one cycling in winter...
--frank[at]unternet.org
The interest in these has never been lacking. They simply cost too much for a reasonably well designed model to make any real headway though. If they could get the low end down to below $300 and the high end closer to $800-$1000 they might actually make some progress, but until then, there will be no significant change in the way people use bicycles.
Especially when you consider the fact that most people (in the USA at least) use bicycles because they either can't afford something more practical/versatile or are using it as a way to exercise.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Because the bottles aren't full. (And just hand it to me - too easy to spill it otherwise.)
Yes yes, drivers hate cyclists because all cyclists are idiots, and cyclists hate drivers because all drivers are idiots. Does anyone know which group threw the first metaphorical punch? Until someone stands up and says "I don't know who threw the first punch, but I'll be damned if I throw the next", nothing will ever change.
Not saying you should just stand there and take it, but hatred just breeds hatred.