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Looking Back At Dungeons & Dragons

An anonymous reader sends in a nostalgic piece about Dungeons & Dragons and the influence it's had on games and gamers for the past 36 years. Quoting: "Maybe there was something in the air during the early '70s. Maybe it was historically inevitable. But it seems way more than convenient coincidence that Gygax and Arneson got their first packet of rules for D&D out the door in 1974, the same year Nolan Bushnell managed to cobble together a little arcade machine called Pong. We've never had fun quite the same way since. Looking back, these two events set today's world of gaming into motion — the Romulus and Remus of modern game civilization. For the rest of forever, we would sit around and argue whether games should let us do more or tell us better stories."

19 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. Well, Pong is earlier then 1974 by sznupi · · Score: 3, Informative
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    One that hath name thou can not otter
    1. Re:Well, Pong is earlier then 1974 by Lando242 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not only that, but Pong was cribbed from Ralph Baer's Odyssey, which he had been demoing around since at least 1968.

    2. Re:Well, Pong is earlier then 1974 by Ihmhi · · Score: 4, Funny

      And all of these are predated by the 0.27.452a Alpha version of D&D, commonly known as Chess.

  2. But unfortunately... by dushkin · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... nobody wants to play D&D with me now that we have video games (THANKS FOR NOTHING, PONG). :( does /. want to play?

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    o hai
    1. Re:But unfortunately... by derGoldstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Few people born after 1990 will likely want to touch D&D, or any other pen-and-paper RPG. I kind of feel sorry for their imaginations. At some point the saturation of visual media will reach a point where practically everything is a close derivative of some other work the artist has seen, and you'll have very little artwork that's created simply by the mind of the designer. This has implications, IMHO, that reach further than just how people draw elves and orcs. D&D made us look up at the *ceiling* and try to imagine a creature, a place, a situation, and the interaction of things that we've never encountered. Kids seeing Avatar today will be, in some way, imagination-impaired.
      (damn, I sound old)

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      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    2. Re:But unfortunately... by nkh · · Score: 4, Funny

      I click on "Reply to This" and type my answer. I eagerly await your next command while sipping some coffee. My program compiled with 5 errors and 12 warnings that I fix as fast as possible. I commit my changes with a quote from Edgar Allan Poe, and click on the Submit button to finish.

    3. Re:But unfortunately... by derGoldstein · · Score: 5, Funny

      A troll appears on the discussion thread. He has not noticed you yet, but he's causing some damage to the surrounding environment. Remember that you'll need fire or acid to cause him permanent damage -- just modding him down won't work.

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      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    4. Re:But unfortunately... by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really? I asked around at church, and we got so many people interested, we had to rope in another DM and organise two games. Most of the people who play are in the 18 - 24 bracket. Although our assistant minister joined us for one game as a cleric of atheism.

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      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    5. Re:But unfortunately... by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 3, Funny

      I cast... Magic Missile!

    6. Re:But unfortunately... by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really? You don't think a minister could get a helluva lot of kicks putting words into the mouth of a proponent of atheism?

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      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    7. Re:But unfortunately... by Sandbags · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I completely agree. "Pen and Paper" has been replaced with digital character sheets on laptops, an electronic map displayed on a big-screen TV (including FoW) to let players know where they are in relation to objects and creatures, and some still prefer real dice but command-line rolling using macros is much more efficient.

      MapTool from RPTools.net is by far the core tool we use. We have custom macros for all the powers each player is using, and it's not that hard to keep them up to date (players only level up about once a month, and don't get new powers every level, and the macros are pretty easy to write). the DM's notebook runs 2 instances of it, one for the DM's view and another on the second screen (TV) for everyone to see. The maps themselves for pregenerated campaigns are available online, though more recently, we've been making our own (from scans mostly).

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      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    8. Re:But unfortunately... by Sandbags · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The kids of all the members our our active game groups are starting to become interested. The oldest is only 8.

      Kids imagine more than you know, and given the wealth of influence from media, movies, stories, and more, they can come up with some pretty hard core stuff.

      We didn't "imagine" as much as you think with D&D either, we had pictures of monters to look at, descriptions and detailed accounts to reference, the only one doing any real imagining was the DM and only if he wrote his only story, or more commonly augmented one to better suit tyhe group). The rest of us were simply "role playing" which is what it's all about. Reacting to events and scenarios as someone else might react instead of yourself. The rest was all simply in the rules. It's a scripted session of pretend, not very far different from the choose-your-own-adventure books from the 70's and 80's. The advantage of it was simply that the rules were basically wide open for any conceivable action to be done by a player instead of a strict set of options on your turn.

      Today, it's better. We have actual play maps (which were allways optional back in the day, and rarely used because of the massive time investment in making them and expense of miniatures). The TV is a central view of the action, initiative, and quest notes. Players use laptops to manage their character and move them about on the screen by joining the server. They can see what monters look like (currently they're simply icons, scanned from the books, so it's really not all that different) Rolling and to-hit calcuations have been replaced by macros which makes combat MUCH more efficient and lets us "play" more and roll less (though some still prefer real dice). It's easier to get a mental image of what's going on, and there's less "narrative" as the GM simply explains your surroundings and relative position to each other.

      We're still huddles in a room over character sheets running through adventures led by a GM pulling the strings of NPCs. The stories now are not much diferent than they used to be. It's quite entertaining, and action happens a lot faster than it used to.

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      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    9. Re:But unfortunately... by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try growing up in a hick town where you're the only D&D fan. Then you won't romanticize it so much. At least the CRPG's gave me someone to play with.

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      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  3. Rogue-like by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Rogue-like games are here since 1972!
    And you have been killed by a troll!

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    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
  4. Nothing more fun? by kieran · · Score: 3, Interesting

    D&D taught a generation of kids that they could make the games they play, and that nothing was more fun than getting together with friends for an evening of games.

    Utter bollocks - an evening of games pales in comparison with a day-long pizza-fuelled session at the weekend.

    1. Re:Nothing more fun? by imakemusic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just as the players themselves paled in comparison to their peers.

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      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    2. Re:Nothing more fun? by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Utter bollocks - an evening of games pales in comparison with a day-long pizza-fuelled session at the weekend.

      ED: You see a well groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.

      ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?

      ED: (Pause) It's white, Eric.

      ERIC: How far away is it?

      ED: About fifty yards.

      ERIC: How big is it?

      ED: (Pause) It's about thirty feet across, fifteen feet high, with a pointed top.

      ERIC: I use my sword to detect good on it.

      ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo!

      ERIC: (Pause) I call out to it.

      ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo!

      ERIC: (Pause) I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?

      ED: No, Eric, it's a gazebo!

      ERIC: I shoot it with my bow (roll to hit). What happened?

      ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.

      ERIC: (Pause) Wasn't it wounded?

      ED: Of course not, Eric! It's a gazebo!

      ERIC: (Whimper) But that was a plus three arrow!

      ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a gazebo! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a *)@#! gazebo!

      ERIC: (Long pause. He has no axe or fire spells.) I run away.

      ED: (Thoroughly frustrated) It's too late. You've woken up the gazebo, and it catches you and eats you.

      ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my Paladin.

  5. Re:DND had it's issues by khallow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Huh, I learned quite a bit about medieval history. Not just of Europe, but other cultures of the time. This sparked a general interest in history that I keep to this day. And D&D helped get me into reading a wider variety of fantasy and science fiction than I had before. D&D was my first practical application of combinatorics and probability. I now have a PhD in math, in part due to this game (and subsequent RPGs that I played). It helps develop basic record keeping and arithmetic. Anyone who has DMed successfully has picked up a little experience in managing groups.

    Frankly, even just learning to draw nice is a useful skill. Simple things like learning how to correct mistakes or to come up with a drawing style unique to yourself can carry over to other activities than merely drawing. And I fail to come up with useful activities that I would have done in place of role playing. Maybe you could have learned more in a comparative religion or practical art class, but would you have? Methinks, there'd be some other distraction.

  6. Excellent opportunity to ask Slashdot by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was a DM during the heyday of AD&D 2nd Ed. I ran successful AD&D and Traveler campaigns for several years, until work commitments and the old gang moving away put and end to that. After ten years of my old roleplaying stuff gathering dust I put it in the library book sale.

    When I was running campaigns, I quickly realized that the rules were not really workable from a DM's perspective. The roleplaying aspect of the game was too open ended to be practical for this set of rules. That's why the ridiculous "dungeon crawl" campaigns were so popular, because they paid back *all* of the DM's work. If you filled a hundred rooms with treasure and monsters, the players would methodically clean out each level.

    In a sense this recaptured the old strategic simulation games from which this kind of thing evolved. If you set up Napolean vs. Wellington at Waterloo, you didn't have to worry about players saying, "I think I'll take my army and move back over Belgian fronteir, then negotiate a treaty which will apparently give Britain what it is looking for, under the cover of which I can build other geopolitical alliances that will undercut her." After you did all the work of researching and setting up the initial conditions for an elaborate battle simulation, the players were jolly well going to play out *your* scenario. But the freedom to do something unexpected is the essence of roleplaying.

    That the rules were really not very adequate didn't hurt, because short of simulating the whole world, they couldn't possibly be. The DM makes up rules governing outcomes as he goes along, and if he does it skillfully the players don't even notice. In fact once I got very experienced at this *most* of the campaign, and usually the best parts of the campaign, were improvised on the spot. Instead of spending five hours preparing for a five hour session, I could spend one hour on something that would make a really big difference.

    The key insight I got was this: roleplaying games aren't simulation. They're "cops and robbers" or "cowboys and indians" with just enough structure to make them interesting and challenging. It's group story telling, not for the end product but for the experience of being in the story.

    Now recently my teenaged daughter expressed interest in learning D&D, so I picked up the latest books. Now before I start yelling at all you kids with your newfangled systems to get off my lawn, let me say that the new rules are impressive. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into them, and they cover contingencies a lot more clearly, and tweak some of the things that were illogical. These are much better *simulation* rules. But they aren't necessarily better roleplaying rules.

    Perfect, even *reasonably good* simulation rules for roleplaying are impractical, in my opinion, because such rules would have to be a reasonably good ontology of some world. Well before you'd get to "reasonably good" you'd reach the point where the rules are cumbersome. What rules ought to do (in my opinion) is provide a framework in which players are forced to make decisions that are meaningful to them (e.g., "Am I up to fighting this guy, or should I run away and heal up?"; "If I want to steal the jewel from the idol, how should I prepare my escape?").

    It seems to me that roleplaying rules should focus on (a) forcing player decisions, (b) being convenient to use and (c) being easy to learn for both gamemaster and player.

    It seems to me the new D&D rules are no better at A, not significantly better at B, and a lot worse at C.

    It used to be that you could bring up a new player with about fifteen minutes of explanation and another fifteen minutes of walking him through his character generation. That coincided with the phase of the evening's entertainment that featured pizza and chatting for the other players. If you wanted to bring a whole group up, you took them all through the half hour orientation then treated them to a one evening dungeon crawl, after which they'd know everything th

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