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Microsoft Dodges Class Action In WGA Lawsuit
An anonymous reader writes "A lawsuit that accused Microsoft of misleading consumers to download and install an update for Windows Genuine Advantage under the guise that it was critical security update will go forward, but not as a class action. A federal judge has refused to certify the lawsuit as a class action, which would have meant that anyone who owned a Windows XP PC in mid-2006 could join the case without having to hire an attorney. As Windows XP was easily the most popular operating system at the time, the ruling means Redmond has managed to avoid hundreds of millions in potential damages."
I never planned on using the corporate justice system anyway.
I used the consumer justice system... I pirated some of their software and then switched to Linux.
...the ruling means Redmond has managed to avoid hundreds of millions in potential damages
All of which would have gone to the lawyers.
If you can dodge a class action lawsuit, you can dodge a ball.
By the time the settlement or judgment is made -- assuming Microsoft doesn't go to trial and win -- the damages would probably amount to a few bucks per end-user anyway. It's the injunctive relief that matters IMHO. Microsoft should be forced to comply with anti-spyware laws. That can potentially happen whether the suit is class action or not.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Seriously - we all know this. Every class-action against a tech company usually results in (at absolute best) a hundred bucks or so to each class-action participant, while the lawyer(s) leading the charge get to go buy a new yacht/house/jaguar/whatever with their take.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
WGA enables other updates to be installed, it pretty much is a security update.
Yeah, sure. It "enables" other updates to be installed, just like DRM protection "enables" movies to be watched.
The converse, however, seems far more true: WGA restricts other updates from being installed, just like DRM restricts movies from being watched.
There is no technical or security reason for WGA's existence. The "other updates" that it "enables" would work just fine without it, were they not arbitrarily designed to require WGA.
Kid-proof tablet..
As in the patent infringement case - even "several hundred million" is only a couple of days' revenue, assuming the crooked bastards lost.
Penalties against Microsoft do not change their behaviour.
you had me at #!
I can see why they would tell a customer that the Windows Gen app was a security update. To a lot of users they just know that if they download a "high" priority update they will be protected.
Take my mom for instance, her entire computer knowledge equates to if I double click the blue E icon Google appears and then I can youtube. So then only way she would know that she should get an update like Windows Gen is if it was declared high priority and had the word security attached.
This lawsuit is fair but I agree that it should not be class action.
"This was indeed a critical security update. An update to secure the legitimacy of the software which we support."
Then the judge rules in favor of Microsoft.
The end.
~The roAm
How about original linkage? : http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/09/04/microsoft.sued.over.wga
The lawsuit is for $5 million for the whole class. You do the math and tell me if this is to benefit the lawyers or the end users. This isn't about MS, it's about lawyers making money. I have a feeling there will be a lot of misplaced outrage in these comments.
Also, it was a high priority update, _not_ a critical security update. Inflammatory summaries again.
How many of the people that were to join the class action suit would have had legitimate copies of XP flagged as illegitimate? I know very few people that had this happen. A few corporations had their volume keys flagged as such, but if the admin was doing things properly, they would have denied the update through group policy (or some other patch management).
For all the individual users - I remember coming across a few who decided to let their beliefs be known at a few functions I attended. They were up in arms over this, how it removed their background, and had a nuisance box pop up on the system tray. I asked if they bought the copy - they said no. So, WTF is the problem? You steal something, then get upset, when you get caught? Be happy, nothing really happens when you get caught. MS is basically saying "we know you pirated this, but no worries, just buy a copy now, we won't tell, we won't take you to court, we won't send Jimmy to break your legs."
Now, we can all be pro-linux, pro-mac, pro-whatever, but the bottom line is, Windows costs money, and like any other company, MS has to make money to continue making Windows, etc. Now, they may be charging TOO MUCH, but this is a case for a monopoly. Just because all the oil makers are in cahoots, doesn't mean we can steal gas because we feel because it is a monopoly their prices are too high. And to jab the Apply fanboys - Apple releases OS updates YEARLY for $130. MS fanboys have had the pleasure of paying $200 retail (or $140 OEM w/ a mouse or stick of ram, or anything else cheap), for 5 years. I bet if MS released OS updates every year for $130, everyone would be up in arms, but when Apple adds a program like Notepad to it's OS, they repackage it, and call it something cute. I'm waiting for Apple Liger (it comes with a new theme!!!!!!!!!).
So, back to reality, if you stole Windows, expect the genuine advantage to show up. And I love it, you know why? Because I'm a legitimate sysadmin, and when I load on Windows XP, Server, or even Linux (Redhat, or another one with support) I purchase the program, and make sure my clients are fully licenced. I have to compete with people who steal software and sell computers with pirated versions. The client usually does not know the difference, until the genuine advantage shows up - and I love this, because it weeds out the PC makers that are cutting corners and pocketing the extra money. The client gets pissed, then the PC maker ends up getting in trouble.
Managed to "dodge"? This is the classic definition of a frivolous lawsuit. this is not a compliance lawsuit. There is no injuctive relief. This is a perceived slight by litigous individuals. Why didn't the entire case get thrown out altogether?
WGA renamed for Vista and 7 as "The Windows Activation Technologies (TWAT)" Your Honor, I rest my case.
What upsets me the most is that if I legally purchase windows for my computer I am limited on how much I can upgrade, but if I illegally pirate it I can actually treat it like I own a copy of the OS. The same is true with the excessive DRM on DVDs and Blu-ray. It doesn't stop people from pirating, it just punishes those of us who own legal copies.
While what you say is true, it doesn't follow that they can be successfully sued for deciding to ensure that only their actual customers can install patches (the purpose of the DRM). Just like folks don't sue Mozilla over the Awesome Bar (which I like, but it seems some folks incessantly whine about).
If a company implements a technical measure to ensure that updates are only able to be installed by their customers - so what?
If Microsoft wants to claim and enforce a draconian EULA, they're effectively saying that by buying their software there's a contract between you and them, and as part of that contract they agree to provide any updates through the supported life of that product. In most businesses, the contracts are much more explicit.
By making a change like this which requires action on your part to continue receiving updates, they've made a substantial change to the contract, without renegotiating. Such unilateral changes to contracts are normally frowned upon by the courts.
What upsets me the most is that if I legally purchase windows for my computer I am limited on how much I can upgrade,
No, you're not. People who legally purchase Windows are allowed all updates, and you can upgrade your computer as you wish. You may have to reactivate it.
What's the problem? I had no problems with WGA on my pirated copy of XP and I was able to get the Windows updates just fine. :p
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/01/21/2014204/Supreme-Court-Rolls-Back-Corporate-Campaign-Spending-Limits
The problem with the case is that plaintiff's' attorneys have failed to meet the legal requirements to certify the lawsuit as a class action. The initial pleading has been repeatedly amended to add and drop plaintiffs, while at the same time it is not able to advance coherent legal arguments backed by evidence. Courts will not certify a lawsuit as a class action based on wishful thinking. The courts require prima facie evidence that the issue is widespread, that many people are harmed, and that judicial economy will be best served by having a single lawsuit. This isn't a "win" for Microsoft or a "loss" for the common man; plaintiffs' attorneys haven't done their homework and met the burden of proof for certifying the class.
What upsets me the most is that if I legally purchase windows for my computer I am limited on how much I can upgrade
Sadly you didn't purchase windows, you licensed it. Welcome to the world: intellectual property gets all the protection that physical property gets, with none of the 'disadvantages' (ability to loan, etc).
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
Guess it pays to get the retail version vice the OEM. Lesson learned.
Because a insecure, compromised OS affects more people than just the owneruser of that OS. Unpatched pirated copies of Windows can be pwned and exploited to send spam, perform DDOS attacks, do distributed cracking of encryption keys, or whatever else the operator of a botnet chooses to do with it; actions that hurt all the users of the internet, including all the legitimate ones.
Patching pirated copies of Windows is in the public interest
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
No... he purchased a copy of Windows, with a license to use it. That's where the sticking point is - just like when you purchase a book, the physical copy is your own, but that doesn't mean you have the right to read it out on the radio or adapt it as a screenplay.
So, it's an invasion of privacy to have your computer regularly sending information back to Microsoft about where you are (they know the IP address at least and the time, so can work it out pretty well), what hardware you have etc.. I know you're trolling, but there's other ways Microsoft could ensure only their customers can install patches, for instance the 'genuine advantage' software could run only when you want to download a patch - with a clear warning stating that information will be sent to Microsoft.
I have an older computer that while in a hurry allowed the WGA to start to install. I wanted to cancel that installation but now was unable. Every time I boot it asked to continue with the install and I cancel out of it. Does anyone know if I will have the option to de-install that feature once it is installed? Or a way to remove the partial installation?
Apple doesn't necessarily release its updates for $130 a pop. Snow Leopard was released as a $29 upgrade.
"Your comment is a perfect example of being off-topic;"
And your comment is a perfect example of being too exhausting to read. I'm sure you had a good point, but I saw that huge block of unbroken text and thought, "no thanks".
Yes, I'm being pedantic, but the "enter" key can be a trusted ally and an aid to communication. Use it wisely.
>> Why would pirates have free access to updates too?
To minimize the pool of botnet-ready machines connected to our internet? Thing that may or may not help you directly but is a good thing anyway. It does cost the same for MS to deliver 10 or 10000 patches.
WGA as any DRM it's broken by design, removing it was easy. Unlike Win 7 wich requires a bit more of struggle and is not 100% a sure shoot. In fact, I'd like to buy the copy of Win 7 just for the sake of not messing around with BIOS mods and the like, IF ONLY Win7 delivers something to improve my workflow.. but it is not, I'm more likely to switch to Linux and emulate Win and spend the money in buying compatible hardware. In the meanwhile my OEM XP license is not going anywhere. YMMV
I have to say that WGA was really the final straw for me with Microsoft. I, being a paying customer, felt from day 1 of WGA that it was an absolute kick in the teeth from Microsoft. It is what turned me from a Microsoft fan over to using my Mac Mini. It was a sad thing for me but I'm much happier now and will never come back. Thanks for turning me away Microsoft!
You assume that these corporate whores give a rat's ass about their paying customers. In the old days, a business competed with other businesses for your dollar and had to care about you; new customers were valuable as there was a limited supply. These days of globalism there are seven billion prospective customers; there's more where you came from.
Free Martian Whores!
Whoever refuses to join the class action lawsuit has illegal copies on Windows!
Yep. I've seen dozens of people running pirated copies of XP, all with WGA installed and humming happily to itself. As usual, the ones most harmed by this measure are those who aren't doing anything wrong.
What upsets me the most is that if I legally purchase windows for my computer I am limited on how much I can upgrade
Sadly you didn't purchase windows, you licensed it. Welcome to the world: intellectual property gets all the protection that physical property gets, with none of the 'disadvantages' (ability to loan, etc).
Well, I don't know whether you are trying to make a point, or you actually believe what you are saying, but "intellectual property" is not something that can be compared to actual property. The concept of property has its origins on scarcity. Intellectual works are not scarce, so the concept of property has no meaning regarding them. "Intellectual property" is about monopoly rights over immaterial works, in this case, copyright. The only thing copyright and property have in common is that confusing term. There is no analogy to be made between property and copyrights, and doing so brings confusion like the GP, who thought he bought something, when he only paid for the right to run certain software under certain conditions. Much more like game tickets, only you have to play yourself in addition to paying.
I bought the OEM version retail (which you can do so long as you're buying hardware in the same transaction) and it reactivates fine. The limit is once every 6 weeks, apparently.
FGD 135
It's people like you that are the reason the rest of us have problems with WGA. Go suck a cock.
That's actually the point of a class action suit. The idea is that the damages per case would be far too low for the average person to afford/bother with suing. This isn't a terrible thing, IMO.
What bothers me is when it isn't a nominal cash award for damages but is instead a $50 coupon off the newest $500 (just to pull numbers from nowhere) product by the same darn company. Those settlements really tick me off.
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070313
It "enables" it, but only because Microsoft requires it, not because there's some underlying technology in WGA that adds any value to the update process. It becomes an artificial prerequisite, not a technical one.
That's the problem with WGA. It didn't fix any security problems with Windows at the time, it was introduced as a gatekeeper to make sure that only verified legitimate copies of Windows were allowed to get updates from that point forward. Though their verification system was pretty good, it was far from perfect so one side effect of this is that a number of legitimate copies of Windows could not be verified as legitimate, and the people who bought and paid for Windows had to buy it again, or call Microsoft and try to prove something they should not have had to waste their time proving. Plus, Microsoft failed to ramp up their call center, so a lot of people wasted a lot of time on hold waiting to talk to a Microsoft rep so they could prove they bought what they had already paid for. Early reports also had a number of Microsoft reps unaware of the nature of the problem and calling people pirates and hanging up on them, without even bothering to ask for proof of purchase.
Fortunately, in my case, I had a legitimate copy, I still had my original install disc, and I got a relatively nice rep after only an hour of waiting on the line. I had to drive down to a local shop to FAX an image of my original install disc with a long number written on the FAX sheet, then the rep got back to me about a day later with the activation code. It only cost me about 3 hours and $2 not including gasoline. But that was for a single copy installed at my home, and it was still three hours of my life wasted to, in my view, no good purpose. I found out later that some people were only asked to read off the code, or describe some small detail of the disc. Others had to produce a receipt (as if most people would keep one!). A few were even charged for a standard support call. So the internal procedures at Microsoft appeared ridiculously inconsistent.
But the REAL complaint about WGA is that it was not disclosed. Microsoft just listed it as a "critical security update" and didn't explain to people what it was or what it could do. WGA, in and of itself, was not a security update, and Microsoft artificially made it "critical" by tying all future security updates to it. You just installed the update and, if you got unlucky, you got the "this copy of Windows will self-destruct in 30 days" message.
Why would pirates have free access to updates too?
They shouldn't. That was the goal of WGA, and that's all well and good, but Microsoft failed to account for the collateral damage they'd cause.
All Microsoft had to do was tell their customers what WGA was, why they were deploying it, and warn people that their machines may come up with the "Your Windows will die in 30 Days if you don't call us and ask permission to keep running it" prompt. Put a dedicated 800# on the lockdown message, and have that number route to a call center with people who know what the hell is going on and have the authority to approve activations.
Throwing it on there as a "critical security update" along with a bunch of other "critical security updates" was reckless and irresponsible. It was neither critical, nor was it a security update. Not telling their internal reps who would start getting angry calls from customers about it.. I don't have a polite word to describe that so I won't.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
And its people like you who just bend over and accept everything a company does that lets MS get away with WGA. Go.. figure.
The XP license is restricted to (i think) 5 reactivations. OEM licenses are restricted to the original machine only and can't be moved. Hardware changes are permitted such that less than 3 of 5 registered devices are swapped out. If activation is required because say a motherboard with lots of onboard cvomponents was replaced, then a simple call to M$ solves the issue. They activate it anyway.
Vista was initially given 1 reactivation on new hardware, but that was later upped to 3 due to pressure. However, the license was NEVER intended to be portable to an unlimited number of machines, and certainly never allowed to be on more than 1 machine at a time. WGA ensures that only 1 copy of a valid license is concurrently installed (aside from VMs on the same hardware which there's an exception for under Pro and Ultimate versions).
If you have a copy of Windows, and buy a whole new PC, its expected if you're re-using a license on that new machine in leiu of buying a new one: 1) the one being moved is not an OEM copy. 2) if it's an upgrade, the original license terms from the last full retail version apply, which may have limits on migrations (upgrades do not have portability unless the OS upgraded was itself not an OEM version). 3) It has been moved fewer times that it was originally allocated for.
I've called microsoft a dozen times on my own personal licenses to have additional activations granted. I've done this a hundred times for companies. Its never once taken more than a 5 minute phone call to get around WGA with a legitimate copy of Windows. On 2 occasions i was re-installing a copy for a customer and it turned out to be pirated (over 1,000 active copies of the licese key were in use in once case) and they refused to activate, but in both cases the customer had other keys on hand that worked anyway.
WGA has never once prevented me from getting a machine activated, and I've done several thousand machines since XP alone. ...and thank god I'm no longer in that segment of the IT industry. I don't even have admin logons anymore :)
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
I've put dozens of hardware upgrades in my home PC. Until very recently when i installed Win7 on it through my renewed action pack subscription, I'd probably reactivated that single copy of XP Pro a dozen times. yea, it stopped auto-activating, but a phone call to an operator who picks up on the second ring (never been on hold for activations ever), got me another activation. All you ever need to tell them is that it's a hardware repair, and they activate immediately (and read you a long string of characters to type in). The first few times you do this, you don't even need to speak to a person...
There is NO limit on "upgrades" The limit is on complete hardfware reaplcement. M$ does consudder the replacement of the board, processor, ram, and video card to essentially be a "new" PC, in fact anytime more than 3 out of 5 analyzed components change all at once, a reactivation is triggered. There IS a limit on how many machines a copy of windows can be MOVED to (remove from old, install on new) and that is spelled out in the licence terms you agreed to. A copy of XP is NOT a lifdetime use copy. They're GENEROUS to even let you re-use it the 3 to 5 times they do (depending on version, it;s changed a few times). Symantec, AutoDesk, McAfee, WebRoot, and many many more do NOT permit application portability to a new machine AT ALL.
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
You're making a rather circular arguement:
Microsoft is breaking its contractual agreement to provide updates to those customers who don't install a particular set of updates.
So, the only people to who it witholding updates are those who explicitly chose not to install some of them.
>There is no technical or security reason for WGA's existence.
I can think of one. Someone unwittingly buys a pirated copy of Windows (it does happen), and that copy has malware hidden all throughout. As soon as the person in question installs WGA, it will alert them to the fact that Windows is pirated, at which point they will hopefully stop using the infected copy of Windows, report whoever sold them the disk, and get a free copy from Microsoft.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
The World Canadian Bureau?
Jesus Tits just fix XP . Sell licenses to who ever needs them for "pre IE8 applications" and keep it alive for IE7 /6 or give us a tool to remove without de-stabilizing our systems. For example pro audio people with working hardware which is train wrecked by Win 7.
We all already know we have to keep our win systems behind a hardware firewall now.
You won't be getting those discount coupons for MS products after all.
No... he purchased a copy of Windows, with a license to use it. That's where the sticking point is - just like when you purchase a book, the physical copy is your own, but that doesn't mean you have the right to read it out on the radio or adapt it as a screenplay.
Minor nit-pick, and you are correct in every way that matters still, but instead of 'right' it should be only 'legal right' since it is our right to do so in every way but legally.
Sadly there is not actually any legal right to restrict distributing 'art' in the way it is being limited by the men with the guns. Nothing in the Constitution, bill of rights, nor any international treaty gives our government the legal right (let alone any other right) to restrict such actions indefinitely like they are (or are trying anyway)
Humanity as a whole, nor any single human being, would be able to exist if we didn't have a natural right to copy. We would have no language, society, and community are rooted and fully based on sharing ideas, none of which would exist if there really was no natural right to copy.
So in reality, they only have the 'legal' right to do this because they have guns and run the prisons. The law of the land specifically states how copyright as we have it now is unconstitutional and illegal. The damage it causes to 90% of society shows it is not a moral right any more than murder is (IE any one person CAN, but to do so is bad for the whole)
Unfortunately things won't go back to normal until all of the control freaks in our government die off and go away or are put to death. Something else our constitution virtually demands (and more than provides for), and just one other thing our government is illegally stopping from happening...
As one of the named litigants in this case, it was never about the money, it was more about setting the precident that software companies do not have a right to steal processor cycles from users.. Doesnt matter how many or how few, Microsoft co-opted hundreds of thousands of us to run checks for them to track down illegal software without our consent..
Now obviously, I have legal copies of XP and I dont like what Microsoft was doing, so one way to change their attitude was to sue. It could never have been about the money, because awards were capped by the EULA to $5, so even the people representing the class wouldn't have made a red cent (The lawyer would have.. but to be fair I put in maybe 100 hours, he put in 1000s and got nothing for it)
As one of the class reps, do please know that I would never have allowed the "voucher" crap that we all see.. I would have protested strongly.. I'd have much rather see the total award given to the EFF where it could do some good preventing these actions in the future.
There IS a limit on how many machines a copy of windows can be MOVED to (remove from old, install on new) and that is spelled out in the licence terms you agreed to
I'm sorry but I never agreed to any license terms. I went to the store, bought a product on display (a box of Windows XP) and paid at the cash. What license terms are you talking about ?
It may be like so where you live, but where I am there is law protecting the consumer, and one of them say that if I have to agree to a contract to use your product, you have to make me sign it BEFORE I buy the damn thing.
Now, if MS don't let me activate my copy of XP when I upgrade my machine, I will just call the consumer protection agency and let them explain the law to MS.
Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
Copyright infringement is not stealing
The geek trots out this argument at every opportunity.
The problem is that copyright infringement was denounced as piracy and theft while the Black Flag still flew over the Carribean.
The geek lost the battle over words 250 years ago.
No. I was so excited about TWAT that I asked my neighbour about it, and she assures me she can get me in next week. Apparently something is wrong with her hardware right now. I'm so excited that I don't even care that she is ugly, as long as she helps me get into TWAT. (I was surprised that she told me to make sure my joystick is in good working order, but then I realized she has been having those hardware problems)
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
WGA enables other updates to be installed, it pretty much is a security update.
Yeah, sure. It "enables" other updates to be installed, just like DRM protection "enables" movies to be watched.
In much the same manner that lubrication "enables" a colonoscopy. (Credit to Illiad Frazier on that one.)
Something to think about, at least in some versions of XP the original (retail/upgrade) license even allowed for it to be installed on 1 Desktop and 1 laptop computer. This was removed in Windows 7 (and probably vista).
The advantages of donating to both sides in every election are obvious now.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
What upsets me the most is that if I legally purchase windows for my computer I am limited on how much I can upgrade,
No, you're not. People who legally purchase Windows are allowed all updates, and you can upgrade your computer as you wish. You may have to reactivate it.
Okay, so you essentially have to ask permission to Microsoft in order to upgrade your computer by a certain amount. I call that a limit on how much I can upgrade. What, you don't think that they'd ever say no?
This is more Product Activation than Windows Genuine Advantage, but the principle is the same. The easiest way to drag everyone kicking and screaming into an upgrade is for them to say "No, we're not reactivating your copy of XP. Buy a copy of Windows 7 if you want to continue using your computer." Don't think it will happen? If there's an avenue for abuse that you allow on the say-so that it will never be used, then you have nobody to blame but yourself when they go back on their word.
Actually there is an easy way to prove it is nothing more than DRM. If it actually was "for security" and not DRM crap then autopatcher wouldn't work, which of course it does. While my XP is legit, I don't want to be dealing with that crap, nor would I install spyware like WGA without a client's permission, so I use autopatcher. Installs all the updates, along with nice reg tweaks I can choose from along with non security add ons like Java and Flash. I highly recommend it along with Ninite after a clean install to give them all the basics like FF, OO.o, and IMGBurn.
But the only ones that "win" in these class action lawsuits is the lawyers. It will not make MSFT do squat differently, the consumers if they are lucky get a coupon they have to jump through hoops for, which most never do (I had a chance with 3 different class actions, but they wanted so much info on me I refused to do it for a lousy $5-10 coupon) so nothing ever changes except the lawyer can afford a nicer trophy wife. Yeah I would say the system is pretty damned broken at this time.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
"Ahhh....I know I shouldn't slap the fanboy, but I'm bored people, and therefor can't help it." - by hairyfeet (841228) on Thursday January 21, @07:58PM (#30854896)
Hairyfeet, You had to "eat your words" numerous times in the exchanges in these very posts which everyone will now see, verbatim, by just going to them here:
----
("Exhibit A", where I merely extolled both SPEED and SECURITY issues in FAVOR of Opera, vs. FireFox):
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30852888
("Exhibit B",where I first caught you in mistakes, regarding SPEED and SECURITY issues in FAVOR of Opera, vs. FireFox):
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
("Exhibit C", where I further caught you in mistakes, regarding SPEED and SECURITY issues in FAVOR of Opera, vs. FireFox):
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
----
(Big mistake(s) on your part, starting up hassles with others by your intentionally trolling!)
ANYONE IS FREE TO READ THE ABOVE, WHERE "HAIRYFEET" HERE FIRST ADMITTEDLY TROLLED MYSELF & GOT HIS ASS HANDED TO HIM, WITH EASE, & LMAO - DUE TO HIS OWN MISTAKES & RANTS!
(Hilarious!)
Whereas, by way of comparison (when I tried to warn he to leave me be no less, initially)?
I stated nothing but verifiable facts in the 1st URL, & subsequently supporting ones regarding BOTH Opera, FireFox (& addons for them).
APK
P.S.=> The result? "HAIRYFEET" ran, like the TYPICAL /. TROLL (or, any other elsewhere) when confronted with facts, vs. his fictions and outrageous technical errors...
However, before he ran (in "typical troll fashion" no less)? He lastly used the OLDEST "troll trick" in the book: Downrating ALL of my posts as "offtopic" & "troll" etc. / et al (Where my replies actually WERE on-topic unlike his largely stupid & erroneous replies no less)...
No, I think from now on here? Well - Everyone ought to see EXACTLY how you & those LIKE YOU, operate around here & elsewhere online as well (and how you UTTERLY "screwed-up" for it on your part also, all per the above examples thereof on YOUR part)... apk
You assume that these corporate whores give a rat's ass about their paying customers. In the old days, a business competed with other businesses for your dollar and had to care about you; new customers were valuable as there was a limited supply. These days of globalism there are seven billion prospective customers; there's more where you came from.
That's because the people who patronize the company are too ignorant/lazy/stupid to ask two questions:
What is this company's track record regarding how they have treated previous customers?
and
Based on that information, do I really want to do business with them, knowing that giving them money for products/services is not merely an exchange, but is also a statement of approval of their business practices?
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
You're fucking nuts man.
A class action is a way of protection a company by consolidating a lot of damaged parties. Seek out some law students who are friendly and can show what you need to file to start up a lawsuit for yourself. Do this 1 million times.
Palin?
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I'm a bit confused about what the actual issue with WGA is. I had a legitimate copy of WinXP on my computer (it came with the computer) for several years. I installed all of the microsoft security updates, including WGA. WGA didn't appear to adversely affect my computer in any way. What is the problem with WGA?
I like my coffee the way I like my women - roasted and ground up into little tiny pieces.
No it isn't. I can recall a time when Microsoft was proud that MS-DOS was he most copied program in the world (at least they claimed so). All the other software companies that made easy-to-copy software became big, often with really lousy software: Lotus (Multiplan was by far friendlier and better), AutoCAD (present versions still suck compared to CADAM in the '80s), WordPerfect, etc.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
P.S.=> The result? "HAIRYFEET" ran, like the TYPICAL /. TROLL (or, any other elsewhere) when confronted with facts, vs. his fictions and outrageous technical errors...
If you don't get any replies, perhaps the problem is you, not them? Ever thought of that ? You should learn about how to write posts such that people feel like they are having a conversation rather than being subjected to a brain dump of incoherent sentences.
Actually I think it is kinda cute. I have my own little pet troll! Here trollie, here boy! While I admit is isn't a well trained troll, and tends to drool and piddle on itself, on the plus side it doesn't speak in "LOL WindblowZ" speek like the Twitter troll I had a few years back. all in all, I prefer the drooling and piddling on itself.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Yes, now everyone knows I have my own Opera troll! On the one hand, it would have been nicer to have a Safari troll, as at least Apple does have taste, on the other I could have ended up with one of those scary basement dwelling "LOL Windblowz" trolls, and from what I understand they are rather smelly. But I expect I will have for the next week or so this lamer following me around.
Hey trollie? I use the same ID on every forum I'm on...lets see how many you can find!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
You'll find the same advantages in day to day use, as you observe as a media centre: efficiency, reliability, freedom from malware, nagware, and crapware, freedom from "progressive Windows dementia", and availability of many useful packages.
Don't take my word for it, try it. I use Linux for my day to day work and it "just works." Take the Windows brakes off and you'll immediately get twice as much value from your PC.
you had me at #!
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
In those 2 links above, hairyfeet? You had your ass absolutely handed to you for your trolling him is all. So much for ITT, eh?
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
Hairyfeet, face it, You had your ass absolutely handed to you for your trolling him is all. You say you want to teach PC tech stuff in your profile, but you sure got "schooled" above. So much for "ITT training" because apparently it's not worth squat, seeing as you got blown away, lmao.
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
Hairyfeet, face it, You had your ass absolutely handed to you for your trolling him is all. You say you want to teach PC tech stuff in your profile, but you sure got "schooled" above. So much for "ITT training" because apparently it's not worth squat, seeing as you got blown away, lmao.
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
Hairyfeet, look. Just face it. You had your ass absolutely handed to you for your trolling your betters, is all. You say you want to teach PC tech stuff in your profile, but you sure got "schooled" above in both urls above. So much for "ITT training" because apparently it's not worth squat, seeing as you got blown away! rotflmao.
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
Folks, we'd like to introduce you to "Professor Hairyfeet" graduate of "Bottom of the barrell university" @ ITT! That's where they teach you to troll others as well as how to lose very, very badly on technical topics, as he demonstrates above. So, when "the POWER of... 'ITT Training'" fails you, as it has the professor above? Well, there is always, "bottom-of-the-barrell U" for you too, as it's where ALL of the proudest loser trolls like the professor above graduated from (including getting their fake sheepskin from a gumball machine, lol). Professor Hairyfeet, You say you want to teach PC tech stuff in your profile here, but you sure got "schooled" above in both urls above there hairyfeet, lmao. Yes, folks - That's the KIND OF EXCELLENT RESULTS you'll be guaranteed to get, when you go to "Bottom-of-the-Barrell U" @ ITT. Guaranteed, or your money back (all 5 cents of it, lmao).
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856394
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1519698&cid=30856658
Folks, we'd like to introduce you to "Professor Hairyfeet" graduate of "Bottom of the barrell university" @ ITT! That's where they teach you to troll others as well as how to lose very, very badly on technical topics, as he demonstrates above. So, when "the POWER of... 'ITT Training'" fails you, as it has the professor above? Well, there is always, "bottom-of-the-barrell U" for you too, as it's where ALL of the proudest loser trolls like the professor above graduated from (including getting their fake sheepskin from a gumball machine, lol). Professor Hairyfeet, You say you want to teach PC tech stuff in your profile here, but you sure got "schooled" above in both urls above there hairyfeet, lmao. Yes, folks - That's the KIND OF EXCELLENT RESULTS you'll be guaranteed to get, when you go to "Bottom-of-the-Barrell U" @ ITT. Guaranteed, or your money back (all 5 cents of it, lmao).
I wan B jus lyk U an Puffesser HairyFeet an grajooAte Fum ITT twaining too
I won go thwu "The POWER of... 'ITT Training'" jes soes ah kin be jes laik Yew, PWUFESSUH HAIWYFEIT. so kin ah be, PWEEZ? YO MAH HEIRO PWUFFESSUH! PWUFESSUH HARRYFEIT I WAN B LAIK U 2.
(ROTFLMAO)
I won go thwu "The POWER of... 'ITT Training'" jes soes ah kin be jes laik Yew, PWUFESSUH HAIWYPHEAT. so kin ah be, PWEEZ? YO MAH HEIRO PWUFFESSUH! DAS ONWY CUZ PWUFESSUH HARRYPHEAT I WAN B JES LAIK U 2.
(ROTFLMAO)
Why are you so fucking stupid?
it makes it more difficult to use illegal copies of windows (what a crime!)
I remember clearly that semiconductor vendors as an example, were happy to provide technical information that helped designers understand the benefits of their products. Piles of handbooks were freely available from a variety of sources, often the sales reps directly, or the vendors support divisions.
Going back as far as CP/M-80, the operating system shipped with developer tools and programming documentation. Until Chuck Peddle stopped shipping the language tools and started charging separately for them. Vendors would put on free seminars to convince developers to support their platforms, and provide free technical support to serious developers needing help to complete products that would enhance the overall market impact of a vendors products.
I remember being shocked and disappointed when Microsoft started charging serious money to be in their developer program. They also priced the development tools rather high, and began an onslaught of versions that never ended, I remember at least half a dozen so called 6-month learning curves alleged to provide developers with the understandings they would need to succeed with their applications. With one hand they charged a lot for assembly and C support, while they talked out of the other side of their mouths about how Visual Basic was all anyone really needed to write applications for Windows. They said you didn't even need to know how to program :-)
Then Novell followed suit and priced up their developer program. Suddenly you had to be a member of several developer organizations at once to get critical mass on information required to create a non-trivial application, and it would not be competitive if you didn't use undocumented APIs like Microsoft did.
Because of Microsoft's marketing style, the other development software vendors fell by the wayside one by one. Microsoft licensed their headers and framework to other compiler vendors, but never the latest version. Eventually the only viable compilers came directly from Microsoft at any cost. And you couldn't write software just with the information contained in the massive pile of refuse called the MSDN Library. It was full of deprecated (or should I say defecated toolkits that were so downlevel that the sample code rarely compiled without massive changes. You also had to buy piles of books, many of which costs more than $70 each. That wasn't even enough, if you were serious, you probably had to attend specific training from Microsoft or approved trainers.
Because of the proliferation of operating system versions, API version, and general DLL Hell, it was rarely possible for small developers to test their products economically on all variations of the target platforms and versions. And Microsoft kept the target moving at all times, complete with misdirections and promises of features and future support that vanished quietly from time to time.
We waited years for a certain version of Visual Studio to come out of Beta, and instead of actually releasing a stable product, they issued what I called the "forgiveness license" that said it was OK after all to ship products using what were previously beta components. The windows of opportunity shrunk to nothing and began overlapping in such a way that linear development was no longer sufficient and cascaded teams were necessary to stay viable in the face of streams of conflicting information and toolkits from Microsoft.
Also if you could not afford the $25,000 support contract, they would just laugh in your face if you asked them a technical question only they could answer in order to complete a product that only operated under their operating system.
So it has really nothing to do with the fact that Microsoft forbids the vendors from making dual boot systems and that Windows must be pre-installed to make a computer's price competitive?
Most developers target Windows because it is the only thing they and their users know. And Microsoft wants to keep it that way.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Same here. I vowed never to install XP because of Windows Genuine Annoyance, and moved from 98SE to Xubuntu. Never regretted it even one day.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
That's exactly right. I have personal experience that Microsoft allowed, and even encouraged, piracy.
how this ended being moded troll just states that /. moderation system is now on hands of Redmond. Guess it's time to leave.
1) this has been covered in US and international case law many times. It it not disputable. The CPA is on Microsoft's side on this one, sorry.
2) The box, on the outside, indicates "License," and fine print on that box in the "requirements" area mandated to be present by law indicates where to get a full text copy prior to purchase. YOUR failure to do this is NOT microsoft's fault, the license is freely available (and Microsoft vendors are ordered to provide you a free copy in paper form as part of their partner agreement should you so request).
3) inside the box, the disk has a seal, which upon opening confirms you agree to the license. Additionally, on installing you further confirm this license agreement.
4) for OEM products, on first boot, you have to agree or decline. If you decline, it must be removed from the machine and then you can get a refund of the OEM license cost (about $30 in most cases).
5) the product registers itself online within 30 days. This is manditory, as spelled out in the License. Doing so further confirms your agreement to the terms.
6) A license is not a contract. It requires no signature on file. It is a right of use, like a ToS, and it CAN be revoked at will.
You CAN refuse the Microsoft license. You CAN return the product and use something else.
Per case rulings, you are not buying the product, you're only buying the license to use it for specific purposes for a limited time. This is covered in the US Code of Commerce, a document defined in the constitution itself, and backed up by numerous laws and the supreme court.
If you don't like it, uninstall it. unfortunately for you, the ONLY OS that can be installed on a computer without SOME form of restrictive license is the one you write yourself. Good luck with that, let me know how it turns out.
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
Mr. Gates' grammar is perfectly valid. There is no hard and fast rule not to put prepositions at the end of the sentence. The aesthetics may displease you, but I'd rather you not force yours on your students, or us.