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Prison Bans D&D For Mimicking Gang Structure
Trepidity writes "In a case that has been winding its way through the courts for a while now, a Wisconsin prison banned inmates from playing Dungeons & Dragons, using the justification that 'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.' The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing. On Monday the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the regulation (PDF) against challenges from inmates. The court appeared skeptical of the ban, sarcastically referring to it as the 'war on D&D,' but upheld it nonetheless as having a 'rational basis.' Law professor Ilya Somin suggests that the court may have had no choice, given how deferential rational-basis review usually is."
Well not really, they would rather ban Monopoly and its ... "Get out of jail" card ...
That could give ideas to inmates.
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Well, I hope these people don't participate in any work training programs. Those are also structured disturbing like gangs, with a leader and people specializing in different things. I think some people have also committed crimes while at work.
The United States Supreme Court banned the government, using the justification that 'one player is denoted the President... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.' The court also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of other presidents once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their governing.
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.'
Clearly, no-one involved in the case has ever played a decent game of D&D. But why bother with facts when prejudice and hysteria will suffice ?
For the 0.0001% of Slashdotters who've never played, a good "dungeon master" (just like a good computer game programmer) creates an interactive environment for players to explore.
What the players decide to do from there is what can make the game an interesting vehicle for self-discovery and excercising one's imagination and problem-solving abilities.
It no more mimics the structure of a gang than someone attending a lecture or watching a play.
"The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing."
My only crime was to CAST FIREBALL at LEVEL 6 and do 6D6 damage to everyone in a huge sphere in front of me...except the ones who made their saving throws.
I wouldn't even be here except I rolled a 4 on my SAVING THROW VS. JUDGES
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Freedom of speech
Beyond prison reach
Societal deportment
So hard to teach
Burma shave
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
... magic missiles do.
I think this comes under socialising and if you don't let people people socialise to a minimum extent it can screw up their minds.
In other words if you lock someone up in a room with nothing but a pile of food,books and some weights equipment for a few years they probably come out more than somewhat messed up in the head.
It occurs to me that it's like someone found that making their child go sit in the corner alone for 10 minutes when they were somewhat bad was a decent punishment and then tried to just sort of scale up the time and how far away the corner was for more serious offences and didn't consider that some things don't scale well...
You don't sound elitist, you sound sadly unaware of the very basics of human psychology.
Do you realize that the most severe punishment in any United States prison is solitary confinement? The human need for socialization is the very foundation of Sociology, Psychology, Political Science, Anthropology and many other schools. This is not opinion or conjecture, it is a basic assumption of most of the soft sciences and there have been many experiments that have shown the extreme adverse effects of solitary confinement.
Do yourself a favor and read Discipline and Punish. You'll start to understand that the prison system is not in fact as old as civilization but a very new, very disturbing invention.
The stated goals of prisons are to rehabilitate, they are called "correctional facilities". You cannot rehabilitate humans if you treat them like animals. All this ruling, and many like it, achieve is: a further sense of marginalization among the inmates, further reducing the chance of rehabilitation, a loss of a very positive venue for personal expression and imagination which could greatly aid in resocialization, more institutionalized, life long criminals. Our current system does not work nor is it meant to. Prisons are big business, and just like everything else, they are run by big business.
Personally, I just think the Warden doesn't want them having FUN.
And when you get down to brass tacks, it is a fucking PRISON.
When I looked at this from that perspective, it makes quite a lot of sense. Prison isn't supposed to be fun, folks.
"Hey! I never have to work again, my room and board are provided for me and I get to play D&D all fucking day!" This is most old-school gamers wet dream. The only thing missing is Mom cleaning up the basement for you once a month.
C'mon folks. We have to make it a deterrent, not something to look forward to. The only reason this is fucked up is because they don't just come out and state it that way. Instead, they rationalize and tie this shit up in a courtroom. They could have just said "No fucking games" and been done with it.
"In other words if you lock someone up in a room with nothing but a pile of food,books and some weights equipment for a few years they probably come out more than somewhat messed up in the head."
If you replace the word "weights" with "computer" you have a good definition of the stereotypical slashdoter.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
It took me until the end of the comic to realize it wasn't a joke. WTF?
THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Not to get off topic, but it should be clarified that this is what *some* Christian fundamentalists believe. I would be categorized as a Christian fundamentalist, and I would categorize Jack Chick as a conspiracy theorist lunatic fringe nutjob Christian fundamentalist. There are a number of things in his tracts (aside from the weird stuff) that he presents as Biblical that aren't in the Bible (no matter how liberal/conservative your reading of it.
Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
I'm shocked by how many people in this discussion seem to think that prison inmates are subhumans who don't deserve any rights and should be driven to suicide.
How does that help? The only thing you'd ensure would be that those who do make it out have a justified hatred towards society and will definitely commit more and worse crimes. And, of course, everyone who does commit a crime would have a strong incentive to kill all witnesses as prison would be designed to crush the inmates' soul and capital punishment wouldn't offer much of an additional threat.
And all of these observations are besides the fact that the very statement that inmates don't deserve to be called human is a sign of complete moral bankruptcy and nothing short of appalling.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Do these elements show socialization skills? Cooperative ability? Evaluation of morals? Imagine if the prison ruled that all players must be Lawful Good. All these scenarios acted out in imagination helps decision-making, provided there's a good GM in charge of player role accuracy. I actually think role-playing games could be very useful. Role-playing is quite useful in psychological counseling, is it not?
If I were imprisoned, I'd consider it a significant investment in an opportunity to work hard on improving myself, so as to no longer be a detriment to society. I would certainly not expect to be permitted to write Mein Kempf, or plot my next Una-Bomber attacks, much less communicate with folks on the outside to plot the next tragic act in my Jihad against the Great Satan.
Prison should be about rehabilitation, not detention. In there, it is a battle for hearts and minds on an individual level, and the treasure of redemption. I say someone takes the fight into the dungeons, and helps slay the dragons on the inside of every man's heart.
As someone who was a long-time AD&D player who also worked for a time in a maximum security/close custody prison facility, my perspective may be a bit different from other who have replied here. In the prison environment, there are strict rules regarding fraternization among the incarcerated (prisoners/inmates). Often, there are limits on the number who may gather at one time, rules regarding proximity to others, and rules regarding communications. Inmates might not be allowed to carry stacks of personal papers or items from room to room. Any time inmates gather, it is suspect. Any time they are talking in hushed tones, it is suspect. Any time they are passing notes, it is suspect. Any talk of weapons or violoent actions puts the guards/officers at a heightened state of alert. Anything that might be viewed as gang-like behavior is suspect. Anything that could be viewed as cover for gang behavior is suspect.
Now, if you have been an AD&D player (or a player of any number of other RPG games), think about the dynamics of game play. Games often include more than two or three people. Players often carry a stack of papers (e.g., maps, character sheets, game manuals) to and from game sessions. The group might get loud, but some members of the group might have a secret side conversation with another player or the DM. Notes might need to be passed (e.g., "I want to pickpocket the baron", "I want to move into the shadows behind the paladin"). Table conversation will include various weapons and tactics. Althought talk of some medieval weapons could easily be discerned as fantasy (e.g., "I'll run him through with my halberd"), others could easily match a contemporary context (e.g., "I'll knife the guard while you try to get his keys"). Most groups with which I've played held the DM in high regard; it was as if the DM had his own cult following or at least a lot of resepect. That behavior, to the untrained observer, would appear to mimic some gang behavior. Prison guards have no way of knowing if such a behavior is just a game, overt gang activity, or a game being used to hide gang activity. To strive for safety and control, they must err toward interpreting events as the worst possible scenario.
If you are an RPG player, think through things that were said around your game table, and try to imagine hearing them as a prison guard or corrections officer. How might you interpret them?
People who really got into their game playing often would talk about the game anywhere and everywhere. Can you imagine a guard in a lunchroom overhearing AD&D players discussing a plan to escape the tower by feigning illness before attacking the guards when they come to investigate? Can you imagine players discussing plans to dig an (in-game) escape tunnel while having recreation time in the yard? The game could easily be used as a veil to allow the player to communicate real escape plans out in the open while the rest of the facility thinks they are just a bunch of RPG geeks. I can't say I fully agree with the decision to bar AD&D, but I can say that I understand the reasoning behind the decision.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...