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Prison Bans D&D For Mimicking Gang Structure
Trepidity writes "In a case that has been winding its way through the courts for a while now, a Wisconsin prison banned inmates from playing Dungeons & Dragons, using the justification that 'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.' The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing. On Monday the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the regulation (PDF) against challenges from inmates. The court appeared skeptical of the ban, sarcastically referring to it as the 'war on D&D,' but upheld it nonetheless as having a 'rational basis.' Law professor Ilya Somin suggests that the court may have had no choice, given how deferential rational-basis review usually is."
What if they played any other sort of RPG?
Or is the law so nutty that they'll ban boardgames like Clue because it features a murder? Or Colditz, because it features escaping from a prison?
Soon, the game Paranoia will be outlawed.
After seeing Oz, the concept of "dungeonmaster" in prison brings on a whole new meaning...
They could be learning to post on /. - the pinnacle of civilized interaction with other people.
No sig today...
Well, I hope these people don't participate in any work training programs. Those are also structured disturbing like gangs, with a leader and people specializing in different things. I think some people have also committed crimes while at work.
The United States Supreme Court banned the government, using the justification that 'one player is denoted the President... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.' The court also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of other presidents once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their governing.
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.'
Clearly, no-one involved in the case has ever played a decent game of D&D. But why bother with facts when prejudice and hysteria will suffice ?
For the 0.0001% of Slashdotters who've never played, a good "dungeon master" (just like a good computer game programmer) creates an interactive environment for players to explore.
What the players decide to do from there is what can make the game an interesting vehicle for self-discovery and excercising one's imagination and problem-solving abilities.
It no more mimics the structure of a gang than someone attending a lecture or watching a play.
"The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing."
My only crime was to CAST FIREBALL at LEVEL 6 and do 6D6 damage to everyone in a huge sphere in front of me...except the ones who made their saving throws.
I wouldn't even be here except I rolled a 4 on my SAVING THROW VS. JUDGES
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Freedom of speech
Beyond prison reach
Societal deportment
So hard to teach
Burma shave
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Most prisons have some leisure time alloted, which wasn't really at issue here--- the warden had no problem with there being leisure time, he just didn't want D&D played during that leisure time. The prison appears fine with inmates watching TV or reading books or playing chess or whatever during that time.
Mostly what caught my eye is the absurdity of "D&D has a dungeonmaster who gives orders, which is like a gang" rationale. There might be some good reason prisoners should have less leisure in general, or should be prohibited from playing D&D in particular, but that particular reason is pretty absurd.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Here's a better idea... ban crimes!
Nip the problem in the bud.
... magic missiles do.
I'ma tell my crew about it tonight after we execute every single one of those goblin mu'fas, take all they bling, and use it to buy mad straps.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
With the exception that once the game ends and you return to your cell, the reality of your situation is inescapable.
You may have thought that you'd escaped for a few hours, but you didn't escape at all, and that taste of imagined freedom turns to ash.
Th cruelest prisons always have a window to the open sky...
I openly admit to not reading ALL comments prior to posting this, but.... I think the top level posters so far are missing the real issue here. These people are in Jail for a reason. Let's not treat them to things they do not deserve.
Jail should be a place to serve a sentance and to hopefully let the the criminals reflect on their crime and hopefully learn a lesson. It SHOULDN'T be a place where criminals get to hang out and play board games. That's just ridiculous. Yes, D&D and any other aformentioned board games are harmless, but enabling someone to have fun in a place of punishment is just downright absurd. I know people who have been to jail, and while they say it was absolutely no fun at all, their behavior after their sentance really didn't change.
The system is broken. We can't let people forget the reason they're being punished...
If they are not treated to any entertainment at all, they will become depressed and kill themselves. Clearly, this is not the intention of jail either, is it? I understand that you have some sort of sadistic need to see these people suffer, but there are limits to how you can treat people (yes, inmates are people too), both stemming from psychology and international law.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
HUMANITY!
This is pure hunter/gatherer humanity: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/12/hadza/finkel-text
Tell me that does not prove that the natural structure of human society is that of gangs!?
Man, stupid, stupid, STUPID.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
There is a DM someone who sets the rules of the game and make sure everyone plays with in the imaginary boundaries. The DM is an authority figure and the players must acquesce to his/her rules. This is basically a model for prison life and some would say life as a "good citizen".
If the rules are in dispute you negotiate and resolve the issue before moving on. Negotation is definitely something you want to teach to violent offenders since they may not have had any 1st hand experience with it.
Basic mathematics and reading. Playing a game and being good at it requires one to learn the rules of the game. You want to find that numbers advantage? the DM isn't going to hand it to you on a silver platter. Many small gamers learn to read so they can figure out what to do next or what the screen is telling them and the same can apply in a prison setting with low literacy rates and math skills.
Abstract problem solving skills. Ok this makes the criminal more dangerous but it could be a skill set that could be used for good and finding a respectable job. (yes I know about job aps and disclosure of arrests/prison time)
As some one said before socializing with others as well as team work to accomplish goals together.
open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
I doubt that is the case. Unless you believe that a very large percentage of Americans have personality disorders and don't qualify as humans.
You present a non sequitur. First of all, that's not what I said. Only around 3% of the general population have anti social personality disorder. Secondly I made no comparison to other countries. However Up to 80% of prison populations have this disorder (the cited article says 75%, in med school I learned 80%). This is logical since the people who commit the crimes are more likely to be caught and sent to prison, so you will end up with a concentrating effect of the disorder in the prison population. No one said "American", and I don't have comparative data for other countries around the world. However it would be reasonable to assume that there's nothing special about "Americans" in particular, and similar statistics must exist in other countries.
If you wanted to create a well-adjusted person would you lock your child up with a bunch of murderers, arsonists and rapists as the only humans to interact with?
I do not think that the current model is the best model. As a preventive and deterrent system, it is clearly broken. As for rehabilitation, well, that's a joke too. Frankly my own views are rather extreme, and will never be implemented, and are certainly a violation of human rights. But we were talking about the actual world we live in.
The problem is that putting people in prison for rehabilitation is the worst plan since Abe Lincoln said to his wife: "I'm sick of sitting around the house, let's catch a play."
Agreed. But you just can't hang them in public anymore.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Heh... So, instead of playing D&D they will just shank other inmates in their free time. I'm betting this isnt about security, or gangs, or any of that shit in reality. It's about the warden being a poostabbing griefer. Well, I hope they knife him to death when the riots come.
$10 says that when you boil this down there is a silly bible-thumper at the root of this.
There is a war going on for your mind.
I'm shocked by how many people in this discussion seem to think that prison inmates are subhumans who don't deserve any rights and should be driven to suicide.
How does that help? The only thing you'd ensure would be that those who do make it out have a justified hatred towards society and will definitely commit more and worse crimes. And, of course, everyone who does commit a crime would have a strong incentive to kill all witnesses as prison would be designed to crush the inmates' soul and capital punishment wouldn't offer much of an additional threat.
And all of these observations are besides the fact that the very statement that inmates don't deserve to be called human is a sign of complete moral bankruptcy and nothing short of appalling.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
I have rights, and I have the right to call people on their nonsense when they try to brand D&D as being related to gangs, and that it's a negative influence.
Would it be okay if the prison decided to ban reading the Bible? Imagine the uproar that would cause.
In prisons there is also: "one [person] is denoted the [warden]... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other [people]... [which] mimics the organization of a gang."
The general definition of a gang of people being just a group with a leader is so general that every human on average probably could be considered to be in 5+ gangs.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Prison is also supposed to rehabilitate.
And even if you think this is nonsense: Prison should under no circumstances produce better criminals.
As someone who was a long-time AD&D player who also worked for a time in a maximum security/close custody prison facility, my perspective may be a bit different from other who have replied here. In the prison environment, there are strict rules regarding fraternization among the incarcerated (prisoners/inmates). Often, there are limits on the number who may gather at one time, rules regarding proximity to others, and rules regarding communications. Inmates might not be allowed to carry stacks of personal papers or items from room to room. Any time inmates gather, it is suspect. Any time they are talking in hushed tones, it is suspect. Any time they are passing notes, it is suspect. Any talk of weapons or violoent actions puts the guards/officers at a heightened state of alert. Anything that might be viewed as gang-like behavior is suspect. Anything that could be viewed as cover for gang behavior is suspect.
Now, if you have been an AD&D player (or a player of any number of other RPG games), think about the dynamics of game play. Games often include more than two or three people. Players often carry a stack of papers (e.g., maps, character sheets, game manuals) to and from game sessions. The group might get loud, but some members of the group might have a secret side conversation with another player or the DM. Notes might need to be passed (e.g., "I want to pickpocket the baron", "I want to move into the shadows behind the paladin"). Table conversation will include various weapons and tactics. Althought talk of some medieval weapons could easily be discerned as fantasy (e.g., "I'll run him through with my halberd"), others could easily match a contemporary context (e.g., "I'll knife the guard while you try to get his keys"). Most groups with which I've played held the DM in high regard; it was as if the DM had his own cult following or at least a lot of resepect. That behavior, to the untrained observer, would appear to mimic some gang behavior. Prison guards have no way of knowing if such a behavior is just a game, overt gang activity, or a game being used to hide gang activity. To strive for safety and control, they must err toward interpreting events as the worst possible scenario.
If you are an RPG player, think through things that were said around your game table, and try to imagine hearing them as a prison guard or corrections officer. How might you interpret them?
People who really got into their game playing often would talk about the game anywhere and everywhere. Can you imagine a guard in a lunchroom overhearing AD&D players discussing a plan to escape the tower by feigning illness before attacking the guards when they come to investigate? Can you imagine players discussing plans to dig an (in-game) escape tunnel while having recreation time in the yard? The game could easily be used as a veil to allow the player to communicate real escape plans out in the open while the rest of the facility thinks they are just a bunch of RPG geeks. I can't say I fully agree with the decision to bar AD&D, but I can say that I understand the reasoning behind the decision.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...