Google Releases Chrome OS Tablet Concept Demo

MojoKid writes "With all of the iPad buzz stirring up the tech world over the past couple of weeks, Chrome OS has almost been forgotten. Though Google has yet to officially release the netbook-centric operating system to the public, the company continues to keep details flowing about their forthcoming lightweight operating system. In their own response to all the recent tablet fanfare, Google decided to release some teaser shots and a demo video of the Chrome OS running on a concept tablet device. The Chromium team suggests that a screen of 5" to 10" is optimal for enjoying Chrome OS and of course tablets, netbooks and MIDs all fit that size class rather well. Couple a streamlined Google-based OS with NVIDIA's Tegra 2 processor in a design like this and the iPad could have serious competition."

Comments

Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not going to buy a device that is so fucking locked down. I'm going to suggest to everyone I know that they not purchase such a locked-down device.

I don't want any company deciding which applications I can or cannot run on a system that I purchase. I don't care if it's Apple, Google, or some other company.

Not even Microsoft have been bastardly enough to so blatantly limit the user's freedom like Apple and Google are trying so hard to do.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[tomhudson]

Not even Microsoft have been bastardly enough to so blatantly limit the user's freedom like Apple and Google are trying so hard to do.

How soon people forget ... "Embrace, extend, extinguish."

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

Microsoft is actually one of the most open player there, in terms of what you can do with their devices. Sure, their OS and programs isn't open source, but you are allowed to run and install anything you want on your devices (both desktop Windows and Windows Mobile). Everyone is able to develop for their platform and distribute applications and games in a way that suits them.

Now I don't understand where Google comes with this, since as I understand you're allowed to run anything you want on Android. Their OS being open source isn't that much more better than Microsoft though, as it's generally pain in the ass to get compiled and you don't get the drivers and everything else required to run it on your phone manufacturers device.

But Apple definitely is a problem here. They're blatantly restricting everything you can install on iPhone and iPad and need to buy all the software from their App Store. And for developers it's hit-and-miss to get their apps there and takes many months. At some point this will most likely be true for OS X too - maybe even on the next major version.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

Maybe it's because it is in the video (which I can't view at work)...but where are you seeing lockdown with this device? From what I read in TFA, I didn't see anything that implied you would be restricted to Google-approved programs...

Re:Too much lockdown!

[MozeeToby]

Assuming they follow a similar plan to the Android phones, I don't see a problem. I can install any software I want on my phone (Settings->Applications->Unknown Sources), including overwriting the operating system. There are certain kinds of programs that I agreed not to run when I signed up with my service provider, but that doesn't have anything to do with the device.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[PenguSven]

Everyone is able to develop for their platform and distribute applications and games in a way that suits them.

This has been especially helpful for the developers of apps that contain trojans, not to mention the drive-by-download virus writers.

At some point this will most likely be true for OS X too - maybe even on the next major version.

What exactly are you smoking?

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

I do hate the full integration with Google accounts and services though, I don't want to login to my Google account just to use my phone (and save all the information and possibly GPS position and so on at Google's servers). I can just boot my Windows Mobile, type PIN and it doesn't try to integrate me in to any other bullshit or be in constant contact with MS servers.

Yeah you could get the source, but it's pain in the ass to set up the environment and even then you don't have the drivers and stuff for your phone, so it's pretty much out of the question.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[blueZ3]

You've completely missed the point that Apple is a hardware company, whereas MS is a software company. Of course MS doesn't try to lock you out of "their devices" since the devices aren't MS's in the first place. You can "install anything you want" on OS X, and there are plenty of other phones that are locked down--heck, my Motorola phones were MORE locked down than any iPhone, since there was no way to install software except OTA.

How's the weather up there in Redmond, anyway?

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

Everyone is able to develop for their platform and distribute applications and games in a way that suits them.

This has been especially helpful for the developers of apps that contain trojans, not to mention the drive-by-download virus writers.

So do you instead prefer fully-locked-down, all apps from our App Store PC's? Do you prefer a fully-locked-down environment and living in a police nation to save you from those who abuse the freedom?

It's funny that people always complain about DRM, locked-down consoles and proprietary standards and want more open and free, but when it's about Apple then it doesn't matter anymore. btw, you can blame Apple for HTML5 video never going to happen - they're pushing hard towards H.264, which is never going to be reality for Firefox because it can't be distributed in the source code.

At some point this will most likely be true for OS X too - maybe even on the next major version.

What exactly are you smoking?

Why do you think it's so out of the question? Apple is already doing it on every other device they have, and it's good market for them.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

I haven't missed that point. My point is, maybe it's not good that Apple is all of hardware company, software company and a marketplace, having vested interest in locking down their devices, locking down their software, and strictly controlling all of it via their App Store (which generates them even more money)

MS develops the OS and lets other companies to develop the hardware, and then lets other developers to freely develop application and games for it. In my point of view, that is more open, free and better environment.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[jo_ham]

There is no way the iPhone app model will be used in OS X - just what evidence do you have that it will? Apple released a slew of new OSS features in Snow Leopard, with GCD and OpenCL being chief among them, and have encouraged developers to use them. Why do that if they are going to limit OS X?

The iPhone and iPad are designed around a different software model, to be more like appliances - it doesn't mean OS X will go this way, not even "likely" - I would put a [citation needed] response on that one, it is so absurd.

As to taking "many months" to get your app on the store... again, [citation needed].

How long does it take to get an app into the iTunes App Store? While we’ve seen some estimates of up to 20 days to have your app approved, we’ve had apps accepted in as few as five.

from my first google hit: http://mashable.com/2009/06/10/build-iphone-app/

If you do not like Apple's model, you are free to *not buy into it* and instead buy an Android device, or some other competing product. It's not like Apple are the only player here. There are many ways to skin a cat, and Apple's "one gatekeeper" approach works extremely well for them, and no one is forcing you to take part (unless you want an iPhone, but want to do something else with it, but then... why buy the iPhone in the first place - buy a Nexus One or something).

Let me just repeat - Apple's model for OS X is totally, completely separate from the iPhone. They are not going to put iPhone OS on Macs and control the software you use on it. All evidence so far suggests they are in fact, opening up OS X a little more than before, starting at an OSS level for some of their new core technologies rather than opening them up later (or keeping them closed source), they support the installation of pretty much anything you can port over, and they don't make it difficult - the dev tools are free, and they provide an X window system if you don't want to (or can't due to various reasons) rewrite the UI to be native. They have a thriving third party commercial software industry going, much like Windows does, and there is no reason to change that.

By your logic, the Xbox OS is pretty locked up, so that must mean that "the next version of windows" is "likely" to be all closed up as well, with MS having to approve all software you install on it, and only being able to buy apps for Windows via Xbox Live, right? Seems very likely.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ByOhTek]

Yes, MS is a software company... and yet, they don't lock down any of the software options within their operating systems.

Yet, when you run their operating systems (including mobile variants of windows), in any form, MS does not prevent you from using a competitor's software within that OS. Apple, however does restrict you.

If Apple is a "hardware" company, then why do they restrict competing applications.

Because they are not a hardware company, they are either a package company - wanting to sell you on the whole deal, hardware and software, or they are a PR company, more concerned with convincing you to buy something, than with the actual nature product. It depends on your view of the company as to which category fits them best...

Re:Too much lockdown!

[bonch]

What nerds don't get is that most people don't care about "user's freedom." They're happy to buy a controlled but stable device that lets them browse the web.

Do you add and remove components of your car's dashboard? Do you drive a stick-shift, or do you let the computer in the car change gears for you?

Re:Too much lockdown!

[recoiledsnake]

You've completely missed the point that Apple is a hardware company, whereas MS is a software company. Of course MS doesn't try to lock you out of "their devices" since the devices aren't MS's in the first place. You can "install anything you want" on OS X, and there are plenty of other phones that are locked down--heck, my Motorola phones were MORE locked down than any iPhone, since there was no way to install software except OTA.

How's the weather up there in Redmond, anyway?

If Apple is a hardware company what do they have to gain from banning Opera, Firefox, Chrome and political apps that Steve doesn't like from the iPhone and iPad? It's all about control and that nice 30% forcible cut of every non free app.

We're talking about the iPad too, which is being hailed as a tablet computer, not phone. The point is that MS could've locked developers out of MS-DOS and Windows by banning competing applications and those that 'duplicate functionality' or leeched off them by forcibly taking 30% of cost of AutoCAD etc.

It's funny you call him a paid shill while being ready to whore for free.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

But Apple definitely is a problem here. They're blatantly restricting everything you can install on iPhone and iPad and need to buy all the software from their App Store.

Both iPad and Andriod/ChromeOS have the ability to restrict your from modifying the OS or running unauthorized programs. The only difference is that iPad ships with this in the 'on' position and ChromeOS in the 'off' position. ChromeOS has built-in support for detecting tampering and re-imaging itself. Google can flip that switch at any time to 'on' and lock you out of your computer.

Suppose Google, once ChromeOS achieves ubiquity, flips the lockout switch to 'on'. Being open source means it has fewer bugs, so fewer opportunities for the community to jailbreak the device. Being open source doesn't help you, because the hardware won't let you run your modified version that you control.

And all Google has to do is subsidize ChromeOS-only products so that they cost much less (just like Microsoft and Intel have done to maintain markets). Sure, a manufacturer could make a hardware that didn't enforce ChromeOS so you could run your ChromiumOS, but if the cost to the buyer is $300 instead of $100 with subsidies then few will buy that version. So nobody will even make that version, even without exclusive or other shady contracts.

Apple is being completely up-front in what they are doing. Google is saying 'trust us, we are not nor ever will be evil'. Microsoft is saying 'just pay us some money for each new computer and then you can do whatever you want'. That Microsoft is clearly the good guy here is pretty sad.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[glebovitz]

At least in the locked down device market there is going to be some competition.

Steve Jobs may call the Google "Don't be Evil" mantra bullshit, but I don't see anything evil in a little market competition.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Sepodati]

So do you instead prefer fully-locked-down, all apps from our App Store PC's? Do you prefer a fully-locked-down environment and living in a police nation to save you from those who abuse the freedom?

Wow... exaggerate much? App store to police state?

I can see where a locked down, "trusted" source for apps can be useful in certain situations. I think my parents would have a much easier time with an iPad versus a laptop. I, however, have no use for such a thing as I require the flexibility a laptop gives me.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ink]

What nerds don't get is that most people don't care about "user's freedom." They're happy to buy a controlled but stable device that lets them browse the web.

AppleTV failed because it wasn't open; it can only play content from the iTunes store, or painstakingly transcoded files. People would rather use devices that are convenient, which implies a certain amount of give and take with the user's needs (see XBox 360 and the PS3). People will want to listen to Pandora while using other applications, and if the iPhone/iPad OS4 still has a single-tasking mentality, it will be fundamentally broken, just like AppleTV is. Ditto with receiving instant messages while playing a game or browsing the web; OS3 can only do that on the 3G network. The iPhone was enough of a revolution for people to see past these faults (heck, I own one); but when the competition starts in earnest Apple will need to adjust.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to believe.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[PenguSven]

So do you instead prefer fully-locked-down, all apps from our App Store PC's? Do you prefer a fully-locked-down environment and living in a police nation to save you from those who abuse the freedom?

Wow, way to miss the point. I was making light of the fact that windows is notorious for security breaches and a plethora of shitty apps that come bundled with shite the user doesn't want.

It's funny that people always complain about DRM, locked-down consoles and proprietary standards and want more open and free, but when it's about Apple then it doesn't matter anymore. btw, you can blame Apple for HTML5 video never going to happen - they're pushing hard towards H.264, which is never going to be reality for Firefox because it can't be distributed in the source code.

HTML5 Video isn't going to happen? H.264 is never going to be a reality? Because Firefox isn't going to support H.264? Yeah, that's stopped people before. If someone is using firefox, they already know how to download a DIFFERENT browser. If Firefox doesn't do what they want, they'll get a better one.

Microsoft is expected to support HTML5 in IE9.. And I know where I'd be putting my money when it comes to Microsoft supporting H.264 or the lower performance, lower quality, non-hardware accelerated Ogg/Theora video.

Why do you think it's so out of the question? Apple is already doing it on every other device they have, and it's good market for them.

I think you're very confused about what constitutes a "device".

Of the Apple products that allow user installable applications (so, all computers, iphone, ipod touch and ipad), seven allow "full access", and three rely on the App store for distribution of apps.

Every time I hear someone complaining about the App store, I'm reminded of all those sweaty linux fans living in their parent's basements, who think all software everywhere should be free and run under fucking Gnome and look like it was raped at birth by a horse.

Get a fucking life. If you don't like the iPhone OS, don't buy a device that runs it. There are plenty of alternatives out there, and I keep hearing how a Dell running Windows 7 for all of 45 minutes will be such a better experience while you watch it running a fucking virus scan for the first 30 minutes.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[itsdapead]

Now I don't understand where Google comes with this, since as I understand you're allowed to run anything you want on Android.

Chrome is Google's PC/Mac/Linux Browser.

Android is Google's phone OS.

ChromeOS is Google's new idea - its a stripped down Linux-based OS that only runs the Chrome browser. The idea is that you run everything via the "cloud" - if you want to write an app for ChromeOS you write it in AJAX and stick it on a server (which means it will most likely run just as happily on the iPad, Android or a PC running Chrome browser). Of course, Google would prefer you to use Google's cloud apps, and the first thing ChromeOS asks you to do is to sign in to Google - but I haven't heard any suggestion that its going to be locked to that.

At some point this will most likely be true for OS X too - maybe even on the next major version.

Citation needed.

Its not impossible but it would basically equate to Apple walking away from the general-purpose PC market, and conceeding a big chunk of their Mac sales to Windows. Now, selling OS X Apps through iTunes sounds like a logical next step - but lockdown would be a major and very, very risky U-turn.

If Mac sales were flagging, I could imagine Apple dumping the Mac range and switching entirely to "appliances" like the iPod/Pad/Phone - but AFIAK Macs are still gaining market share.

What interests me is that nobody rails against the broadly similar system in the Games Console market (developers need to be licensed; sellers of mod chips get sued to a smoking hole in the ground; if you "jailbreak" your console and it breaks you get to keep both pieces...)

Re:Too much lockdown!

[The End Of Days]

It's the same wankery that everyone got up to about the iPad. Might even be the same people.

Basically, Chrome OS devices are not meant as general purpose computing devices, they are meant as information appliances. Same concept as the line of Apple iDevices, different execution. The people who complain miss the point, deliberately or no.

Some people just have the opinion that they are entitled to everything being how they want, and they bitch a lot when they don't get it. That's life, I guess.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[tomhudson]

Apple is being completely up-front in what they are doing. Google is saying 'trust us, we are not nor ever will be evil'. Microsoft is saying 'just pay us some money for each new computer and then you can do whatever you want'. That Microsoft is clearly the good guy here is pretty sad.

I'm just wondering if the money gained from the crapware that is installed on new computers is enough of a subsidy to offset the Microsoft tax.

For example, if Microsoft charges OEMs $50, but the OEMs also manage to get $50 from crapware installers, then it's a wash when you buy a laptop and wipe it down. If on the other hand, the manufacturer only gets $10 for the crapware, you're out $40.

The ideal situation would be where the manufacturer gets MORE for the crapware than it costs them for the Windows license - then crapware software manufacturers who target Windows are subsidizing your switch to linux.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[billcopc]

That's real cute, but what irks me, as an iPhone user, is that this fancy shmancy app submission process does nothing to ensure quality. Every goddamned week I see hundreds of those "daily babe" apps, all seemingly made by the same 3rd-world developer slapping new pics on his 99 cent app. You're trying to convince me someone actually reviews these submissions ? If I want suggestive imagery on my iphone, I can get them off the web like everyone else, no need for a freaking ad-riddled app.

The app store review process is all about Apple's selfish interests. It offers a false air of legitimacy to any apps hosted therein, and by that sole trait I consider it a fraud.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[v01d]

Do you drive a stick-shift

Yes. Why?

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

The ideal situation would be where the manufacturer gets MORE for the crapware than it costs them for the Windows license - then crapware software manufacturers who target Windows are subsidizing your switch to linux.

I believe that was the case for a while with Dell. I haven't checked lately, but I think a Dell laptop with Linux costs the same as the equal-in-hardware Windows laptop.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[boethius78]

Do you prefer a fully-locked-down environment and living in a police nation to save you from those who abuse the freedom?

If so, move to the UK. We're doing our best, and we'll get there soon.

</flippant>

Re:Too much lockdown!

[recoiledsnake]

Wow... exaggerate much? App store to police state? .

That's not that big of an exaggeration. See here: http://www.juggleware.com/blog/2008/09/steve-jobs-writes-back/

FreedomTime was a app that displayed a countdown till the next president was elected. It was banned by Apple for being too political.
The developers email:

Dear Steve,

A quick note to let you know what kinds of apps are being rejected for the App Store.

This app is not defamatory, harmful or speaking untruth. It is lighthearted and humorous. Does it imply critique? Of course it does, but not without crossing any lines of decency or the boundaries agreement.

For a quick screen shot:
http://www.juggleware.com/iphone/freedomtime/
Sincerely,

Alec Vance
juggleware llc

His Steveness' reply:

Even though my personal political leanings are democratic, I think this app will be offensive to roughly half our customers. What’s the point?

Steve

That's only of many examples, which include political caricatures etc. etc.

So while you play with your shiny phone, freedom is being trampled.. and even the tech savvy Apple Slashdotters are not even aware of it..or maybe they're busy brushing them under the carpet while making and modding up posts that rationalize Apple. Just think of the mom and pop types that get an iPhone because everyone else has it, no one will care, while developer freedom is lost. This is Microsoft's wet dream.. and Apple is realizing it.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

I was one of those people who complained about the iPad...but I was complaining because the iPhone OS restricts what you can install based on what Apple has approved to appear in the App store, not because it isn't a "full" OS (although that would be nice).

There is no such restriction with Google's OS, even though it too is a stripped down operating system. I can live with the reduced functionality, but not with being told what I can or can't install on my device.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

That brings up a good point, but it failed simply because it wasn't flexible enough. It could play any content that it had codecs for (which of course came out of the box with only iTunes compatible bits). Had it been more flexible, I would buy one. That said, the mini does everything the TV does, but being a computer, it does it better with the ability to install my own codec support with a few clicks.

I think they got the iPhone right in that it offers a huge array of apps that eliminate the need to jailbreak the thing for 99% of the people who use it.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[mcgrew]

Looks like MS shills have mod points today. Waste some more of your mod points on this comment too, shills, so informative comments like the one above you modded down won't get buried. You won't hurt my karma any.

I do understand why you MS stockholders and employees want everyone to forget. Sucks to be you.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[lupis42]

If you do not like Apple's model, you are free to *not buy into it* and instead buy an Android device, or some other competing product. It's not like Apple are the only player here.

This is basically what the OP was suggesting, and was immediately attacked for.

(unless you want an iPhone, but want to do something else with it, but then... why buy the iPhone in the first place

What reasonable excuse is there for Apple to have any control over what people do with their iPhones? Once you've bought it, it's yours and you ought to be able to do whatever you want with it.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[jo42]

Apple's [user experience] model for OS X is totally, completely separate from the iPhone

Agreed, 110%, however what a lot of people don't realize, at least those that aren't iPhone or Mac OS X developers, is that the iPhone OS and core Mac OS X share over 80% of their source code [Apple WWDC'09]. You also use the same tools and many of the frameworks to develop apps (in Objective-C, C and/or C++) for either platform. It is plausible to have the same code base and then change a build target to create a Mac OS X or iPhone version of a product.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Totenglocke]

If Apple wants to just be a hardware company (and they do make good hardware), then they need to act like one and let you install whatever the hell you want on said hardware. Nvidia doesn't tell you what OS or software to use with their cards, Intel doesn't tell you what you have to use with their hardware, Dell / HP / every other company doesn't try to force you to use only the software they tell you to. There's nothing wrong with pre-installing an OS / software, but there is something wrong when you claim to be a hardware company and then prevent people from using said hardware in the manner in which they choose.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Totenglocke]

What nerds don't get is that most people don't care about "user's freedom." They're happy to buy a controlled but stable device that lets them browse the web.

Except that when they see that for less money they can buy a netbook with the same size screen that lets them do a hell of a lot more then browse the web, a lot of people will stop and think "why the hell should I get this?" The only people I know planning on buying the iPad (and before the details were released, I was very eager for it as well) are the diehard Macolytes who would buy and eat Steve Job's shit as long as it was called iShit and branded with the Apple logo. Everyone else has said "the functionality is so limited that it's not worth buying - my netbook and phone already cover all of that and cost less".

Do you add and remove components of your car's dashboard?

Actually, even professional modders rarely do that. I think you don't really know what you're talking about here. But then again, your lack of a clue when it comes to cars is backed up by your next sentence...

Do you drive a stick-shift, or do you let the computer in the car change gears for you?

I absolutely drive a manual. I refuse to own an automatic because they cost more, up until recently they were slower and got worse mpg, and you don't have as much control over the car. There's a reason why the US is the only country that views manuals as evil - because the US is the only country too lazy to learn how to properly drive a car. That's why car choices in the US are so limited for me - because most cars don't have the option of a manual and are automatically (no pun intended) disqualified.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[farble1670]

Now I don't understand where Google comes with this, since as I understand you're allowed to run anything you want on Android

android != chrome OS (today anyway, it might in the future).

Re:Too much lockdown!

[BitZtream]

you can blame Apple for HTML5 video never going to happen - they're pushing hard towards H.264, which is never going to be reality for Firefox because it can't be distributed in the source code.

Yea, its not like they can just opt to make a closed source plugin or anything ... this is a bullshit excuse, and considering how little momentum Firefox has at the moment, I wouldn't even worry if its not supported.

If your licensing model prevents you from working with other software then its your problem. If everyone else can play by those rules and you can't, its your problem, not theirs.

The only reason you've given is 'its not open source'. I don't recall anything anywhere in Mozilla's licensing that prevents you from joining it with closed source software. I know for a fact that there isn't any such restriction as I and many other software developers use Gecko in closed source software, Mozilla even has a nice list of some rather well known closed source software packages that use Gecko.

If you require OSS and can't make an exception then it sounds like you have a problem, not everyone else.

I prefer OSS if all other things are equal, but I don't let some retarded philosophy rule me. I use the right tool for the job, if its open source, AWESOME. If its not, well that sucks, but lets be realistic, 99.9999999999999999999% of the people using open source get no value from the 'open' part of it. VERY VERY few people actually bother to make patches or add features themselves, most people just use it and the OSS part is just a battle cry for what they really mean as 'free' as in no cost.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[jo_ham]

No, I'm not making an objective or even subjective assessment of the quality of the system, just that people can choose to avoid it by not buying an iPhone.

My actual assessment of the one gatekeeper approach is that there really isn't a lot of benefit, beyond removal of the most obvious of scam/malware apps. There are a hundred "fart noise" apps, and "iPhone torch!" apps that just make your screen go white.

Even with those, however, Apple's system is working for them - the iPhone is selling like hot cakes, and people are downloading lots of apps.

I really wish it did have a more rigorous quality assurance system, to remove apps that really are useless - how many Torch apps do we really need, for example, or those apps you mention that are really just vehicles for advertising. I think a lot of the QA slipped when the store was faced with such a backlog of approvals to process.

Plus, one man's "awesome" fart app is another man's "total waste of time" - the store is filled with all manner of apps I personally find pointless, but some people love them.

I think the best we can hope for in the near future is for the approval process to go away. I don't think that the single point of access will disappear, at least not yet, but I think eventually you may see it become much easier for a developer to publish an app onto the store.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

What nerds don't get is that most people don't care about "user's freedom." They're happy to buy a controlled but stable device that lets them browse the web.

Many oppressed people aren't aware of it, either. Example: living in the USA. Living here, I have far more freedoms than most of the world, but since my government has the capability to spy on just about everything I do, I'm just living in a really big, well furnished cage. A well furnished cage is still a cage.

Do you add and remove components of your car's dashboard?

Not my current car, because I'm keeping it relatively close to stock, but in the past yes. I have installed different gauges to read various pressures and display that the stock dash doesn't monitor. I would LOVE to have a configurable dashboard as a standard option in vehicles, but that's asking a bit much currently.

Do you drive a stick-shift, or do you let the computer in the car change gears for you?

Until the day that I am mentally or physically unable to do so, I will always drive a manual.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[BitZtream]

Its not that no one knows, its that no one cares.

Not everyone agrees with your idea of useful, and it is their store.

Do you bitch that walmart doesn't sell music with explicit lyrics? Are you even aware of that?

Of course they aren't the only place to buy music, but they were until recently the largest source.

The reason no one cares about that little app being rejected is well ... it had no significant value.

The percentage of rejected apps for any reason is so small its hardly worth noting that apps get rejected. As long as it stays that way, no one is going to give a shit in general.

You call it rationalizing, which is entirely correct. When you look at it from a rational point of view, its really not a big deal like you make it out to be.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Gilmoure]

Darn you Apple and your computing monopoly. Darn you to HECK!

Re:Too much lockdown!

[jo_ham]

On the second point, I agree - and jailbreaking is a pretty big community. Apple hasn't gone after people who jailbreak their phones, in the same way they haven't gone after (individual) people who make hackintoshes, or the people who promote the EFI tools that make it possible. I'm an enormous Apple fan, but I end run around them all the time - mostly by doing my own hardware work on their "welded shut" computers, and I'm sure they don;t mind. Sure they want me to send the powerbook back to them to have a bigger HD installed, but they're not really going to care if I do it myself.

Where I make the distinction is assertion that Apple's (or anyone else's) business model is somehow wrong because it doesn't match up with what the user wants to do from the outset. This was my beef with the FSF's protest about the iPad.

Obligatory car analogy: Ford doesn't sell a car in the particular shade I want, because it's not popular enough, but it doesn't stop me respraying it after I buy one. Apple don't offer an open, install from anywhere iPhone by default, but you can modify it afterwards.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[drinkypoo]

You are either trolling or just amazingly obtuse. The unlocked iPhone (and presumably, iPad) actively restricts what software you may install to the device. You need to jailbreak before the software will run. So far, there is no evidence that any Chrome OS devices released from Google will put any more impediment to your installing a package manager and installing any Linux/X11 apps (Chrome OS is Linux+X11+Chrome+A custom window manager, period the end) of your choice.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[jo_ham]

I agree (although I had an arguement on /. yesterday about whether the iPhone ran OS X at all), but the original assertion by the GP was that because the iPhone OS is all locked up, with single app purchase point that Apple will "likely" make the next version of OS X this way, which is just totally not going to happen.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

I don't have some OSS philosophy either. The reason I mentioned why H.264 is not much use for Firefox is because of all the forks of it.

Mozilla License indeed does allow putting in closed source code, but they obviously cannot release that proprietary code as open source. This means only the official Firefox will be able to use H.264 - any Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD or other fork in Windows will not be able to do so. Not that I care that much, I use Opera (though they're against H.264 too and want to use Ogg, but Apple and Microsoft aren't going to do that)

Re:Too much lockdown!

[drinkypoo]

What nerds don't get is that most people don't care about "user's freedom." They're happy to buy a controlled but stable device that lets them browse the web.

That is not yet clear. Nobody has sold a device limited to web browsing yet. Or if they have, they've not been very successful. Even Apple recognized the need to allow the development of actual applications for the iPhone, which was not the original plan.

Do you add and remove components of your car's dashboard?

Yes. All my vehicles have aftermarket stereo systems. I even added a custom in-dash screen to my Impreza. My F250 has an aftermarket pyrometer and boost gauge.

Do you drive a stick-shift, or do you let the computer in the car change gears for you?

Yes. My Subaru has an automatic, but they were kind enough to provide a manual mode in which it will only lug down a gear (and if you put it in third, it will only lug down to second!) if you are attempting to stall the car. In 1st gear manual mode, it locks the center diff to a spool, making it 4WD instead of AWD. My Mercedes has a euro-style shifter which encourages manual shifting, which is very useful even though it has a grade sensor, for preventing unwanted upshifts.

Don't make car analogies, you suck at it.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

Yes. My Subaru has an automatic, but they were kind enough to provide a manual mode in which it will only lug down a gear (and if you put it in third, it will only lug down to second!) if you are attempting to stall the car. In 1st gear manual mode, it locks the center diff to a spool, making it 4WD instead of AWD.

Jeebus. I knew some of the variations on the Impreza had some complicated transmissions/gear boxes/differentials, but that is just crazy considering how low the price on those cars tends to be.

Still, I prefer the good ol' 6-shifter manual on my 04 RSX Type-S :-) BTW, in case anyone is looking for a good CAI/Cat Back exhaust combo, go with an Ingen CAI and a Borla stainless steel cat-back, with a Hondata intake manifold gasket for good measure. In regular use it's fairly quiet, but has a real low growl to it. Once the V-Tech kicks in though, it sounds like a top-fuel dragster.

I rattle windows, bitches.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[drinkypoo]

Jeebus. I knew some of the variations on the Impreza had some complicated transmissions/gear boxes/differentials, but that is just crazy considering how low the price on those cars tends to be.

Pretty much all Subarus of the modern age (Impreza from MY1993, Legacy from IIRC 1994, and the ilk) which are AWD (which includes all non-Kei-class MY1996+ Subarus) have some sort of advanced center differential. The simplest ones have rear-wheel lockout and/or spool mode. The stuff in the transmission is done in software, and required only some additional code and a stick-mounted button... oh, and an idiot light.

Once the V-Tech kicks in though,

You can make some really bitchin' phone calls. V-Tech makes crap electronics, Honda makes engines with VTEC. Brought to you by the department of pedantry.

I would have preferred a stick, but I got the car for $1500, and I was willing to make a small sacrifice. I added WRX wheels and some nice Kumho Ecsta ASX rubber and a custom intake. Now I'm trying to get the factory intake back on and can't figure out where the air injection goes; I think the pipe I got was 48-state. I'll probably just add a fitting to the airbox, before the filter, which is where it looks like it belongs. I also ended up having to replace the TPS. Fantastic deal on a great runner... and SOHC models are non-interference. The car outhandles most things in the twisties and the factory suspension soaks up bumps in Lake County, California (which are amazingly prevalent) in a way that no firmer, street-oriented aftermarket suspension would. The most fun you can have with four wheels and 100HP...

Re:Too much lockdown!

[rsborg]

I'm just wondering if the money gained from the crapware that is installed on new computers is enough of a subsidy to offset the Microsoft tax.

So it's the Windows+crapware tax? Linux/OSX never sounded better.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple went from being nearly kaput 10 years ago to the juggernaut they are today. They didn't pull a bait and switch on anyone, so it's obvious that making the whole widget does have a certain appeal for a significant segment of the market.

Apple's success doesn't mean that they have somehow snuck into a leadership position, they earned it.

Other models like Microsoft Operating systems, which are less couple to the hardware and Open Source exist as well, and can be more successful than Apple within their respective areas/niches.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[das_io]

Yes, MS is a software company... and yet, they don't lock down any of the software options within their operating systems.

But they do. The Xbox 360 is locked down and software can only be installed if it passes certification from Xbox LIVE.

or [Apple is] a PR company, more concerned with convincing you to buy something, than with the actual nature product.

Apple only spends about a third of the marketing budget that MS expends.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

You can make some really bitchin' phone calls. V-Tech makes crap electronics, Honda makes engines with VTEC. Brought to you by the department of pedantry.

::hangs head in shame::. I...I can't believe I made that mistake...

The car outhandles most things in the twisties and the factory suspension soaks up bumps in Lake County, California (which are amazingly prevalent) in a way that no firmer, street-oriented aftermarket suspension would

I got the A-Spec kit on my RSX-S...the kit is overpriced compared to going aftermarket, but the suspension is AWESOME. I swear I can feel individual bits of gravel through the tires. Adding a strut bar up front and the RSX-R floor bar in the rear really helped tighten things up. It has some slight oversteer, but I got used to it fairly quickly.

With the wheels straight, if you put your hand at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel and start driving, the car will go in whichever direction your hand is pointed at 1:1. I love that little car, SO much fun to drive.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[thetoadwarrior]

An open source OS is more open than anything MS offers. Yes it can be hard to do something with it but not everything was meant for the average person.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[sopssa]

No, what he meant is that the crapware like Norton Antivirus trial preinstalled on a Windows computer could be used to subsidize the cost of OEM Windows. If Windows costs $50, and the manufacturer gets $50 back to preinstall those trial programs, the actual Windows costs $0 for the manufacturer. Then they can sell the actual computer without Windows tax.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[drinkypoo]

Before the Subaru I had a 1989 240SX with Eibach springs at about four times the stock rate and with a 3.5" front and 3" rear drop, a front strut tower brace, koni yellows, and a 300ZX viscous limited slip diff (2-way, of course.) You had to shift twice to get to 60 and it was gear-limited to 124 MPH (and electronically to 115.) But it was amazing to drive, until I bent two of my TSWs (totally soft wheels, inc.) hitting potholes. I had to get rid of it at that point, and get something less bouncy, hence the Impreza. Now I'm selling it because I want all turbo-diesels, and I have a MBZ 300SD and a OBS F250 that fit the description.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Pojut]

The RSX is only the second vehicle I've used as a daily driver...the other was an '88 6 Cylinder 4Runner...had 326,000 miles on it when I sold it. Still had the original transmission and engine!

Re:Too much lockdown!

[iluvcapra]

What reasonable excuse is there for Apple to have any control over what people do with their iPhones?

Apple openly touts that it will babysit your phone, will curate the apps available for it, that it provides this as a service to its owners, and that this is a positive selling point for the device?

People have been buying subsidized phones for years, and this proved the principle that people are willing to reqlinquish control over something they owned in exchange for something else of value: lock to our network, we give you money to buy the handset -- the handset is still "yours," but you give up some control over it. Apple's offer is similar: give up some control, and we give you a better experience.

One man's big brother is another man's "Find my iPhone," one man's walled garden is another man's "Parental Controls", one man's sandboxed single-tasking is another man's anti-spyware. These are Apple's solutions to these problems; they are extreme ones, no one disputes that, but I don't think there is any doubt at this point that people are really receptive to these solutions, even given the drawbacks.

You can either see the people accepting these conditions as making a decision, or as ignorant morans. Up to you.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[iluvcapra]

AppleTV failed because it wasn't open

This seems like a highly speculative conclusion, given that MythTV hasn't exactly taken over my TV credenza just yet. Are you sure AppleTV hasn't failed on account of the fact that people prefer to pay for cable/ DVR over paying for shows episode-by-episode? I think the AppleTV model just doesn't match up with how people want to pay for content at the moment. There's a lot more perceived value in being able to record all-you-can-eat off of 300 channels onto a 30-hour DVR over actually paying for episodes.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ink]

This seems like a highly speculative conclusion, given that MythTV hasn't exactly taken over my TV credenza just yet. Are you sure AppleTV hasn't failed on account of the fact that people prefer to pay for cable/ DVR over paying for shows episode-by-episode?

Sure, that's one reason -- but another is that AppleTV can't do what a PS3 or 360 can do (among other set-top boxes and blueray players). Apple was trying to herd users to their store in the same way the iPad is attempting for books. They placed artificial restrictions on the formats and distribution channels for AppleTV (no Netflix, no Hulu, etc.). My Mac Mini can do all of that just fine, and is a much better Apple TV than AppleTV is.

Consumers have picked better alternatives that are more convenient, which in that instance means that it must play a variety of formats and be able to read media from a variety of sources (Internet, USB, home network, etc.). They wanted something more open. They aren't mindless Apple-buying zombies, although some of those do exist (and they probably bought the AppleTV).

Re:Too much lockdown!

[geekoid]

This has nothing to do with freedom or police state.
Let me know when Jobs has people killed. The you can use terms like police state.

developer freedom lost? I didn't realize someone was putting a gun to peoples heads and making them build apps.

They could build Apps for the G1 is it is such an issue. Oh wait, you said police tate so I better hide before some one kicks in my door and kills me in front of my family bacause it's not an Apple phone.

Police state, please.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[PopeRatzo]

The reason no one cares about that little app being rejected is well ... it had no significant value.

Shouldn't the consumer be the judge of what has "significant value" and what does not, rather than Apple?

Re:Too much lockdown!

[geekoid]

MS actually applies a lot of pressure as to what hardware vendors adapt. The hardware DRM crap costs the vendors money and they don't want to put it in their hardware. Yet they are being forced to if they want to compete in the consumer system market.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[geekoid]

really? try playing an 1080p movie onto a non approved monitor.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[geekoid]

Because they want to control what goes onto there hardware to ensure it meets their standards.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[PopeRatzo]

You've completely missed the point that Apple is a hardware company

Yet, they run an "app store".

Re:Too much lockdown!

[geekoid]

". I can just boot my Windows Mobile, type PIN and it doesn't try to integrate me in to any other bullshit or be in constant contact with MS servers."
MS want's you to be completely integrated with their services as well.

You don't need to be integrated into Google to use an android based phone. My G1 could hook into many different email and calendaring systems.

Personally, I use Google services, so it's a nice feature for me, but it's certainly not mandatory.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[PopeRatzo]

Apple went from being nearly kaput 10 years ago to the juggernaut they are today.

Apple went from a being a ground-breaking and highly individual manufacturer of computing platforms to a consumer electronics juggernaut.

Good for them. Apple stock paid for the down payment on my house and I'm very grateful. But those of us who remember when Apple Computers was a serious player in educational computing and in the arts and in publishing and a company that was out to change the world lament the fact that it's become a purveyor of expensive toys to rich douchebags and fashionistas with credit cards.

Their personal computer division, which seems to have given up on any innovation besides cosmetics, could really change the world if they released a version of OSX that would run non-Apple branded hardware. If Apple hardware really is so fantastic, then they shouldn't worry about selling a version of OSX that I can install on my own x58 i7/12gig/Radeon 5870 machine. Clearly, their hesitation is that by making OSX run on standard hardware it might expose Apple hardware as being overpriced and technologically ordinary.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[iluvcapra]

Sure, that's one reason -- but another is that AppleTV can't do what a PS3 or 360 can do (among other set-top boxes and blueray players).

I don't follow. You're comparing an AppleTV (a media appliance thingy that buys content off iTunes and plays Quicktimes) to two consoles (which play videogames, several movie formats of varying openness, and optionally BluRays, don't have media buying options, thus their movie-playing functionality just exists to facilitate bittorrent piracy).

Hulu works on PS3? I thought there was some "artificial restriction" on that; same thing for XBox, actually. Neflix has been admirable in their support of these consoles, but on the other hand they are actually collecting MONEY from their subscribers, and they didn't exactly open-source their player, nor did Xbox or Sony open-source their interfaces. Netflix support on consoles is a closed, opaque business decision between small numbers of huge media players.

People accept all kinds of boneheaded restrictions just fine as long as you sell them on the primary benefits: lets you watch the stuff you wanna watch for good price. People prefer paying for Netflix over AppleTV, clearly, but attributing this to "openness," when all of your counterexamples involve proprietary videogame consoles, proprietary or patented/licenesed media formats, proprietary client software, and streaming non-saveable movies, is a bit rich.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ergo98]

Not even Microsoft have been bastardly enough to so blatantly limit the user's freedom like Apple and Google are trying so hard to do.

I didn't watch the video, however I'm assuming that your post is of the "take the words about the iPad and turn it against Chrome OS" ilk.

If so, you are misdirected.

Here's the thing - from all that I've heard about the ChromeOS platform, it is intended to be usable only as essentially a web appliance. The apps that it uses are no different than the apps that anyone can use on any other modern web device, including, humorously, the iPad.

Your bank won't gloat about their new "ChromeOS Banking Application", nor will your doctor, etc. The public won't be bifurcated into various walled gardens.

Now personally I have zero interest in Chrome OS: Give me a real notebook any day. But I can see its purpose, and I don't see the same (gigantic) pitfalls that I see with the iPad.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs has applications killed. That's the parallel. A developer can invest a huge amount of time in an app, and Apple can fail to approve it for any reason it wants (or no reason), and prevent any iPhone user from using it legally. You never know until you submit, and cross your fingers.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ink]

People prefer paying for Netflix over AppleTV, clearly, but attributing this to "openness," when all of your counterexamples involve proprietary videogame consoles, proprietary or patented/licenesed media formats, proprietary client software, and streaming non-saveable movies, is a bit rich.

I was using the term "open" in contrast with "fucking locked down" as per the gp, not open in a FSF sense. And, yes, those proprietary systems are all much more open than AppleTV was, which consumers saw. It's all a matter of degree. If the Google device is more open, in a non-pedant-FSF-way, then consumers may well pay attention to it.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[selven]

Quite a few people do, and I'm sure there are lots of people on the car enthusiast front fighting modern locked-down cars. We're a Linux/copyright/Apple/Google site so we don't exactly hear much from them.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ramandu]

"There"? I'll assume you mean "their", but that doesn't make much more sense than what you typed. You see, if I pay for a computer I expect to have the rights that go along with ownership; which includes the right to put what ever legal software I have on it. If Apple was loaning me a computer, I could see them not allowing me to install what ever I wanted on it. But such is not the case.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

In hindsight, I think Steve is a genius. How's that hope and change work'in for ya

Re:Too much lockdown!

[iluvcapra]

I was using the term "open" in contrast with "fucking locked down" as per the gp, not open in a FSF sense.

I'm not sure you've even established your point to that standard. Is a PS3 less "fucking locked down" than an AppleTV, or just "fucking locked down" in a different sort of way? At least when you put an iTunes movie on an AppleTV, you can at least play it in HD, without having to worry about network buffering -- there's your tradeoff.

Either way, the Mac mini and console-modding solutions are pretty thin gruel to argue on success or failure of an entire strategy, considering how little penetration they've achieved compared to Plain Old Satellite/Cable/DVR. I don't think any of these has shown a true "way out" of the cable block-channel-subscription model. Everything out there in the Internet Television world is still pretty half-assed compared to cable, and when we try to assign the reason for something like AppleTV failing, you have to show why people didn't buy it instead of X, and if X in 90% of cases is cable TV, then arguing the comparative merits of PS3 modding is sorta unresponsive.

The AppleTV was a test device to see if people were willing to do what people on slashdot have been begging to do, namely, "let me pay for only the shows I want!" It's a cable-killer: in it's primary use case, it makes cable redundant. Lo and behold, this prospect didn't actually appeal to alot of people. Which is interesting, and says a lot about how much "freedom" people are actually willing to pay for.

Apple's attempts to restructure their sales in a more all-you-can-eat way, most recently reported before Xmas, have failed, primarily because many of the largest content creators, Time-Warner, Disney and Sony, have huge interests in cable distribution. This is remarkably similar to how the plain film industry was organized up to the early 1950s, and studios back then would essentially pull the same crap that cable providers pull on their customers -- they'd force theater owners to book two bad films in order to be able to book one good one, they'd use formula deals to create artificial scarcity, etc. This was finally resolved by the SCOTUS forcing the studios to divest their theaters on anti-trust grounds... I wonder what the chances of that happening again are :)

Re:Too much lockdown!

[illumin8]

It's funny that people always complain about DRM, locked-down consoles and proprietary standards and want more open and free, but when it's about Apple then it doesn't matter anymore. btw, you can blame Apple for HTML5 video never going to happen - they're pushing hard towards H.264, which is never going to be reality for Firefox because it can't be distributed in the source code.

Wow, troll much? HTML 5 is an open standard. HTML 5 video just requires a codec to function properly. Right now, there is H.264, which is a patent encumbered codec (you must pay to license it) and is bundled with Chrome and Safari, or Ogg Theora, a free codec bundled by Firefox.

I know I'll probably get downmodded into oblivion, but I would rather have an open standard that is relatively cheap to implement and just works like H.264, than a closed standard like Flash for video on the web. Mozilla can harp all they want about how they are trying to free web standards by using Theora, but there may be submarine patents that come to bite Theora implementations, and personally, when I want to watch Hulu or something on the web, I don't want to worry about whether I have the right codec installed. I'll just use Chrome and let Google pay the $1.50 or whatever it costs to license the H.264 codec.

H.264 also has the advantage that there are hardware accelerated decoding chips in most mobile devices and a lot of new netbooks, so I don't have to drain my battery in 30 minutes of watching video.

Sorry, free software is a great thing in theory, but in practice, I just want to be able to watch video that actually works, and doesn't drain my battery too fast.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[yelvington]

Yeah, it's just terrible the way Google locks down ChromeOS ... no, wait a minute. ctrl-alt-T ... what's this Linux thing? You mean I actually have to type my PASSWORD to get root? Evil bastards!

Re:Too much lockdown!

[ink]

Look at the number of formats and sources available between the two. The PS3, the 360, my Pioneer DVD player, and numerous other devices will play many of: plain-old MPEG-2, MPEG4/2, H.26x, WMV, sorensen and others. They typically accept Quicktime, AVI and other envelopes. Additionally, with those devices you can often browse network shares, the Internet or use various streaming servers open-source or not. They attempt to play what consumers want to play.

The AppleTV is tied to iTunes, and can only play very specific MPEG4 in Quicktime envelopes.

Perhaps Apple's ala-carte plan would have been more successful if they had coupled it with the ideal that gave us Rip. Mix. Burn. The iPod supports MP3 and allows consumers to directly use their content from external sources (ogg notwithstanding). This, in addition to their preferred format. If AppleTV had allowed importing of existing content without re-encoding, and (legalities aside) made it easy to import DVDs into a library -- and THEN offered the ala-cart iTunes episodes, I wonder what would have happened.

I won't hold my breath on the SCOTUS doing anything pro-consumer right now. ;-)

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

So you gonna run around screaming stalker as usual because you got odded down Mcgrew?

I see no sign of MS shils, just realism.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Reaperducer]

So does Intel.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is that MS could've locked developers out of MS-DOS and Windows by banning competing applications and those that 'duplicate functionality' or leeched off them by forcibly taking 30% of cost of AutoCAD etc.

It's funny you call him a paid shill while being ready to whore for free.

It's funny that Microsoft has already done worse than this, indeed : ban competing applications, using *illegal* tactics: see the famous DR-DOS false bug under Windows 3.1. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

Re:Too much lockdown!

[itsthebin]

Let me know when Jobs has people killed.

directly or indirectly

http://www.slashgear.com/foxconn-engineer-commits-suicide-after-losing-iphone-4g-prototype-2149841/

Re:Too much lockdown!

[iluvcapra]

Again, you have to compare like to like. An AppleTV replaces a cable subscription. A console cannot. A console is always going to be half the package, you still have to actually have a way of getting the content into the house, and getting money from the customer.

You keep wanting to make the AppleTV into one of these hobbyist gizmos that people are using to play their stolen movies and ripped DVDs, but it's specifically designed to not do that; it is, exactly like a cable box, simply a storefront that provides the same content but with a different payment model. Why are the cable boxes winning and the AppleTV losing?

The iPod supports MP3 and allows consumers to directly use their content from external sources (ogg notwithstanding).

There is a quicktime component for ogg, but this is undermining your point, since iPods can't really play a wide span of media, iTunes has to keep transcoded versions of anything that ain't Linear PCM, MP3, AAC, or Apple Lossless. Cable doesn't let you the user control any of this, it just gives you a button to press and shows you the show.

Perhaps Apple's ala-carte plan would have been more successful if they had coupled it with the ideal that gave us Rip. Mix. Burn.

No vendor provides this -- if this isn't how cable or consoles are winning it can't be how the AppleTV is losing.

Ripping CSS DVDs is forbidden in the United States, and is illegal -period- in the UK and most of the rest of the first world. That doesn't keep you or I form doing it, practically speaking, but it definitely keeps Apple, Sony and Microsoft from putting it on the box. Which brings me back to my original point that the only way a console could possibly compete with cable is by leveraging media piracy to obtain content. Consoles just don't have good storefronts, and where they do have programming, they offer no real advantage over the iTunes store.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[blueZ3]

I think that more likely their unwillingness to support OS X white boxes has to do with their experience with the clones, and the fact that currently their support costs are negligible. If they had to support every random piece of crappy x86 hardware out there, they'd soon be in a world of hurt.

Re:Too much lockdown!

[mcgrew]

Stalker? You're the only stalker, bozo. That comment would only be flamebait to someone who wanted the world to forget "Embrace, extend, extinguish", and only MS stockholders and employees would wish that.

Like I said, mod me down all you want. I get 5s every day.

iPad buzz?

[sakdoctor]

I haven't seen any actual buzz, as in people genuinely talking about it.

I have see, press releases, astro-turfing, slashvertisements, and spam.

Re:iPad buzz?

[XxtraLarGe]

My wife just sent me an e-mail today saying everybody is asking her about the iPad, especially about how the wireless works. She works in a non-tech environment, so a tablet with a simplified OS is probably the perfect thing for most of them. They know I'm a Mac user, so they always ask her Mac related questions to relate to me.

Re:iPad buzz?

[sakdoctor]

Well obviously the hardcore fanboys lapped up the apple PR, but most people, including hitler were pretty underwhelmed.

Re:iPad buzz?

[uncanny]

they were talking about it on Bob&Tom before it was even premiered, and now they talk about it a bunch. They dont even know anything about it, but it's "shiny object" appeal has already won them over! Unfortunately they have a nationwide audience.

Re:iPad buzz?

[sopssa]

Considering how Jobs got the idea for iPad, it's no surprise.

Re:iPad buzz?

[Monkeedude1212]

Ah, so you're one of those lucky saps that doesn't have any Apple controlled friends.

Re:iPad buzz?

[poetmatt]

lots of people have interest in the ipad, but that doesn't mean purchasing or even positive interest. Just "hmm, something interesting from apple - lets look up more info".

This is a result of the hype and the ipad underwhelming in general.

Re:iPad buzz?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, just because you don't see talk about the iPad on slashNOT doesn't mean it isn't happening. This is the same site that denigrated the original iPod as an also ran. You people are imbeciles when it comes to predicting what technology is good and what technology is popular. For the love of christ, I still see you losers talking about Linux on the desktop. ROTFLMAO.

Re:iPad buzz?

[XxtraLarGe]

Well obviously the hardcore fanboys lapped up the apple PR, but most people, including hitler were pretty underwhelmed.

I was pretty underwhelmed as well, which is why I have no intention of buying one.

Re:iPad buzz?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for letting us know.

Re:iPad buzz?

[Anonymous Coward]

"My wife just sent me an e-mail today saying everybody is asking her about the iPad"

Maybe her coworkers were just out of tampons

Re:iPad buzz?

[severoon]

The buzz is: that's buzz. (The economy's not doing so hot, so marketing folks will take what they can get.)

Re:iPad buzz?

[Anonymous Coward]

oooooh, Apple has a product and Google has a 3D rendering...oooohhhh

Re:iPad buzz?

[rolfwind]

It's usually underwhelming to geeks... which doesn't always mean much.

Maybe the iPad will be a success. Maybe it won't. But geeks are a small demographic, some of who have an extremely myopic view of the importance of some features.

Re:iPad buzz?

[eNygma-x]

I was underwhelmed... the only thing the ipad did do for me is spark my interest in competing tablets. =) (Future or otherwise)

Re:iPad buzz?

[iluvcapra]

She works in a non-tech environment, so a tablet with a simplified OS is probably the perfect thing for most of them.

If I told my boss that I had invented a new computer that was in the tablet form-factor, had good Office-type apps, he might buy one for himself. If I told him that, as an added feature, it made using AIM and streaming media over the internet a total hassle while doing work, he'd probably buy 20 :)

Re:iPad buzz?

[poetmatt]

It's underwhelming to everyone, including apple fanatics. So no, not just geeks. You are backwards. Geeks are the group who want this the most in comparison, actually. Meanwhile, geeks are still underwhelmed in many cases.

Re:iPad buzz?

[Anonymous Coward]

Over this weekend I met with two different groups of friends. In both groups, the iPad was brought up. People are interested. BTW, none of them were talking with me but amongst themselves.

Re:iPad buzz?

[mdwh2]

Actually I would say it's the opposite with Apple, they're more popular with geeks.

You have a lot of geeks using Macs, but they're a niche in the total market. Same with the Iphone - praised endlessly here on Slashdot, by people deluded enough to think it's the market leader, but in the real world over 95% of people are using non-Apple phones.

Re:iPad buzz?

[mdwh2]

People are talking about it, because of the endless hype, astroturfing and free advertising it's being given from all over the media.

And much of the talk is to say how useless it looks, or how disproportionate the hype is, in my experience.

Oh boy more marketing!

[Bill_the_Engineer]

In response to Apple's iPad announcement, Google proved that it could draw a tablet and post it on the web.

My point being that maybe there is something more interesting than tablets. We already know that we'll see a fresh batch of articles on tablets / iPad in about 60 days.

Re:Oh boy more marketing!

[Vanderhoth]

Don't they work on a four week cycle?

Re:Oh boy more marketing!

[Thelasko]

I'm shocked that the ChromeOS shown in the animation has such rich multitasking. They're really aiming high with this one.

Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[fatherjoecode]

I hate virtual keyboards. The other touch sensitive concepts are cool, but I'm a touch typist and to have to use a virtual keyboard is the pits.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[nedlohs]

So why do you care enough comment on a form factor that doesn't have a physical keyboard?

There are plenty of devices with keyboards and they aren't going away.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Pojut]

I agree with you, I despise virtual keyboards. In fact, the lack of a physical keyboard is the primary thing that prevented me from buying an iPhone (I have an HTC Ozone).

That being said, this is a Tablet...it isn't supposed to have an actual keyboard -_-;;

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[just_another_sean]

It's better then a stylus though. I have an HP tc1100 and while it has a detachable keyboard I
tend to use it without that. Almost everything I need to do is fine because I generally just
use it for reading but at those odd times when I want to do something on it that requires
typing, and I'm too lazy to get up and find the keyboard, I would rather use something like the
v-keyboard in the video then the tiny on screen keyboard and stylus combo.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Explodicle]

You can get a keyboard dock for the iPad.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Sir_Lewk]

Why do you care enough to respond to a post that you disagree with?

There are plenty of people you are going to disagree with and they aren't going away.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately it is a barely real keyboard unlike most keyboards

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[zippthorne]

And I hate physical keyboards on devices where the keys are so small my finger covers five at a time. I hate the wasted real-estate that could've instead been used for a bigger screen, and therefore a bigger screen-keyboard with almost proper-sized key-contact-patches.

I hate them even more when they waste space making a "full" qwerty keyboard half the size of a deck of cards. I'm a touch-typist, and such things feel like a cruel joke at my expense. If you must have a physical keyboard of that size, put some UI research into making one with decent-sized keys, perhaps a chorded setup. People can learn to play the guitar in a month, they can learn to type on a chorded keyboard, too.

Touch-typing is about muscle memory, which you can't possibly have transferred from a full-sized keyboard to a phone-sized or book-sized device (and which in my experience actually does transfer pretty well to screen keyboards if they're big enough and not oriented vertically). If there is a new device that touch typing would make sense on, that doesn't mean that qwerty touch-typing is the answer: there may also be a new layout and style of touch-typing that makes more sense for the form factor, like the aforementioned chorded keyboard.

So you can take your old-man "I don't want anything different" whining and buy one of the billions of physical key devices that are constantly being excreted onto the market by unimaginative cost-cutters like RIM. Let there be a few devices that cater to those of us who are willing to try new UI vocabularies and evaluate them on their own merits.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[nedlohs]

I don't disagree. In fact I like physical keyboards over large touch screens. I just don't see the "have to use" part as making sense.

And you messed up the analogy. Mine was X and !X, yours is X and X and hence makes absolutely no sense.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[jDeepbeep]

Unfortunately it is a barely real keyboard unlike most keyboards

Can you not plug in a keyboard of your choosing?

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[prockcore]

You can't tell from the photo, but that keyboard doesn't even have an escape key... instead it's a special "home" key that does the same thing as the home button on the iphone.

That'll hurt us vim-users.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Sir_Lewk]

I read the second section of your post as "virtual keyboards", and worded my response accordingly. That'll teach me to read more carefully.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[nedlohs]

A virtual virtual? :)

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[Sir_Lewk]

Read it as "There are plenty of devices with virtual keyboards and they aren't going away.". No doubt Freud would have some snide comment about my mother or penises for this. ;)

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[geekoid]

If you were a good touch keyboardist, it wouldn't bother you. It's not like the keys change position~

Also, you can get a keyboard for it, although that is besides the point.

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[fatherjoecode]

There are plenty of devices with [virtual] keyboards and they aren't going away.

Said the "hunt and peck" typist...

Re:Ugh, another virtual keyboard...

[fatherjoecode]

I am a good touch-typist in that I never look at the keys. With a virtual keyboard every key of keyboard screen feels like every other part of the screen and there's no way to tell what key you're on.

Thanks Marketing!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can suggest that a 10" screen is optimal all you want, a tablet that is 8.5x11 inches is optimal.

Re:Thanks Marketing!

[tomhudson]

You can suggest that a 10" screen is optimal all you want, a tablet that is 8.5x11 inches is optimal.

How about legal-format size - 8.5 x 14 (a 17" laptop is 9 x 14.5) - turn it sideways and it's almost perfect for hd widescreen format viewing without letterboxing. More than one person can look at it at a time, any virtual keyboard could be almost full-sized, and still leave more half the screen in landscape mode, more room for heat dissipation through the housing, for a webcam, usb connectors, flash card readers, multiple hard drives, a real multi-tasking operating system and all the other things the iTampon doesn't have.

THAT would sell.

Re:Thanks Marketing!

[Tibor the Hun]

THAT would sell, but why stop at legal? Tabloid size WOULD sell twice as much!

Re:Thanks Marketing!

[billcopc]

If tabloid size sells twice as much, then broadsheet will sell eleventy times more!

The pictures show a hovering tablet..

[Anonymous Coward]

.. top that, Apple!
Lenovo already has.

multiple windows

[hey]

The video shows 2 windows open. Probably best not to have multiple apps sharing the same screen.

Re:multiple windows

[abigsmurf]

This is actually an area where they could take a cue from Windows (specifically 7). The 'drag to top to maximise' etc. window shortcuts seem to be something designed to make handling windows in a touch screen a lot less cumbersome.

Re:multiple windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Just because people can do something doesn't mean they will, sure on a small device i want 1 fullscreen app 90% of the time, but putting out an os that can't handle the other 10% in 2010 is retarded. Say I'm having an IM conversation with somebody, chances are I want to be browsing the web at the same time, drag/drop links , etc, I could easily do this on a 7-10" device, hell the browser will be about the same size as an iphone browser. Then again i think when not using the OSK an iphone would easily be big enough to do something similar 2/3 IMs at the bottom of the screen and inbox listings up top.

Google has gadget envy... again..

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again Google is trying to play catch up with Apple.. and if it's anything like the Android it will once again be a total waste of time.. It's interesting to see how badly a company ran for and by technology orientated people does in comparison to a company ran by people orientated people.

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

I'm more concerned that Google is becoming a "jack of all trades and master of none".

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorta like GNU/Linux?

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Sorta like GNU/Linux?

No.

"Linux" is a kernel. It does only one thing.

"GPL" is a license, it does only one thing.

"GNU/Linux" is a fabrication of RMS that has a single task of giving the GNU foundation the illusion of being directly involved with the kernel development.

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[billcopc]

Would you rather they spin off different company names for these side-projects, instead of taking them all under the Google brand ?

They nailed search, then went looking for the next frontier. This is what they DO. This is what most intellectually-minded people do, they figure something out, then move on to a new challenge, building upon their accrued knowledge. If you stop trying the moment you've mastered something, you're deadweight.

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

If you stop trying the moment you've mastered something, you're deadweight.

So you assert they mastered voice communications, web applications, and web browsers and are ready to move ahead into OS development and Mobile applications...

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[slim]

"GNU/Linux" is a fabrication of RMS that has a single task of giving the GNU foundation the illusion of being directly involved with the kernel development.

Quite the opposite. Just as TCP/IP means "TCP using IP as the next layer down", GNU/Linux means "GNU using Linux as the next layer down".

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Quite the opposite. Just as TCP/IP means "TCP using IP as the next layer down", GNU/Linux means "GNU using Linux as the next layer down".

I only believe your half correct.

True "TCP/IP" is the accepted name for that Internet Protocol Suite which are two layers made by the DOD.

However, "GNU/Linux" is a name that is a fabrication of the FSF (via RMS).

I agree with Linus Torvalds when he was quoted in Revolution OS when asked about the 'GNU/Linux' controversy as saying "Well, I think it's justified, but it's justified if you actually make a GNU distribution of Linux ... the same way that I think that "Red Hat Linux" is fine, or "SuSE Linux" or "Debian Linux", because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux, you get to name the thing, but calling Linux in general "GNU Linux" I think is just ridiculous.".

Re:Google has gadget envy... again..

[geekoid]

GNU/Linux applies to Linux packages that have GNU items in it, like Suse.

However you do list the correct reason.

Monster screen size in the video!

[KanadaKid19]

The article says 5"-10" screen size is ideal for Chrome OS, then they go and show a video with what looks like what, a 30" screen? The reality distortion field has spread, and it stretches rulers now too!

Re:Monster screen size in the video!

[Rockoon]

I would argue that their video shows something closer to a 20" screen, and such a size might be optimal for what I'd want.

Now picture this.. a low-horsepower tablet that is convertible into a wireless LCD touch-screen monitor for your high-horsepower desktop computer.

Re:Monster screen size in the video!

[proxy318]

no, that was a 10" screen, they just had a 2' tall person demonstrating it.

Re:Monster screen size in the video!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now picture this.. a low-horsepower tablet that is convertible into a wireless LCD touch-screen monitor for your high-horsepower desktop computer.

/salivate

Re:Monster screen size in the video!

[Idbar]

In fact, they were showing that even a baby can use it!

Older Systems

[MonsterTrimble]

Am I the only one that is chomping at the bit to play with Chrome OS on an older (5-10+ years) system? I have Lubuntu on my old P3 and it flies - relatively speaking.

Re:Older Systems

[daveisfera]

Then give it a try: http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/

Not sure if I care

[93 Escort Wagon]

I realize this entire discussion will probably devolve into a GNU/Free versus Closed argument, or a Mac Lovers versus Mac Haters flamefest, but...

Having watched the demo video, I'm not convinced. This really just seems like another Tablet PC, except it's running Chrome OS instead of Windows XP. The demoed functionality is almost exactly like the application switcher that's available in both PC and Mac (alt+tab cmd+tab), and the resizing functions just use your fingers instead of a mouse pointer. Personally I think that's an issue - I'd rather use a mouse for most of that functionality.

I know there are some people that mock the iPad because it's not running a tablet-ized version of the full OS X; but when I see demos like this, it just reminds me of why Tablet PCs never escaped their niche. For a lot of typical desktop functionality, it is easier to use a mouse. There's no compelling reason making me wish to be able to do those exact same functions using my fingers. It's not that those Tablet PCs were running Windows - it's because they offered no compelling reason to exist for most of us!

Now, hopefully Google will have some additional tricks up its sleeve, and there'll be a reason to care beyond "it's running Linux". And I do believe competition is a rising tide that lifts all boats (yup, I'm pulling out the cliches now). But hopefully Google has studied the past and will try to look at why the Tablet PC never really made it, rather than just duplicate the same mistakes Microsoft made.

Re:Not sure if I care

[jo_ham]

I think this is what both Apple and Google are doing. Apple could easily have released a tablet that ran retail OS X with some extra touch screen function built in, but they chose to scale up the iPhone/iPod Touch and go that way. I don;t know if it will be at all successful, but I think it has more of a chance than if it was a tablet with a desktop OS running on it - there are a fair number of those already, and they're hardly setting the world on fire. They are very useful in niche markets, but beyond that are pretty limited.

The iPhone has been a big success for Apple, and I imagine that the thinking went "people really like it but wish they had a bigger screen for reading the news or watching a film when they're at home on the couch, the iPhone is great for them on the train, but they want it bigger for casual browsing on the couch or in bed".

If they can make a market just for that (and I think it is a little expensive at the moment to really be the thing you pick up when your iPhone is just a little too small and you wished you had a bigger screen), then it will sell quite well. I don't think it will be quite as successful as the phone, but I really can't tell - people said the Kindle would be a huge flop too and that is doing pretty nicely.

If it only works for education then it will be a worthwhile product: I would love a device that I could put all my textbooks onto, including my huge Organic Chemistry one that I could use to beat a whale to death, and be able to buy a latest edition, or perhaps even incrementally update my old editions with small downloads, and have more detailed diagrams and perhaps even videos and animations. Buy one at the start of your university course and get all your textbooks on it - it would be fabulous, even if I never used it for anything else, ever. (note, that it would not replace a computer - it would supplement it - I'm not going to be typing reports on the thing.)

Re:Not sure if I care

[slim]

I'd rather use a mouse for most of that functionality.

I've seen this a few times. I don't get it. A mouse is way of moving a "finger analogue" around a screen. Surely a real finger is better. Especially when you can use lots of fingers at once -- a mouse can only be one.

OK, if your screen is in the traditional desktop position, you'll tire your arms out by holding them up. That wouldn't work. But a tablet wouldn't be in that position. It would be ergonomically similar to writing on a pad of paper.

Re:Not sure if I care

[geekoid]

If it includes a video camera, has the iPad for factror and ties into my Google accounts over wifi, I'll get one.

Come on, an easily portable video phone that can be operated while carrying it? Shit, all's I need is sliding doors and a Vulcan side kicks and I'll be set!

And I can get sliding doors. Those windows tablets were over 1000 bucks. That placed them firmly into the cost of niche device.

Re:Not sure if I care

[swb]

I am the last person in the world to buy into Jobs/Apple BS. I've only had an iPhone since the 3GS, but find it brilliant, and have long wanted an iPhone with a bigger screen for the reasons you mention -- casual use on the couch, in bed, at the breakfast table.

I use my iPhone now in those places but it is ultimately a less than satisfactory experience, especially consuming printed media (way too much scrolling and type that's a tad tiny for comfortable reading) and "normal" web sites that lack an app/mobile version. A laptop, even a small one, is not a satisfactory replacement. Too bulky.

Are there limitations and things that don't make sense with Apple's iPad? Of course. We've heard many of them and like the weird quirks and limitations of the iPhone, they in no way detract from its use by most people.

I really like the iPad and think it was exactly what needed to come out. It bridges the gap between readers like the Kindle and a laptop without being overly complicated to use or own.

Re:Not sure if I care

[gmhowell]

Tell you what, you can have the Vulcan side kick, I want the green skinned chick in the miniskirt.

A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[RobotRunAmok]

the iPad could have serious competition

Once Apple has figured out to whom this is being marketing.

The whole Apple-Yahoo-MS-Google circle jerk posturing is delirious. If next week Steve Jobs called a press conference and sliced his dick off with a silver scalpel in a room full of stunned reporters, I have no doubt that -- not to be outdone -- Sergey Brin would cut off his with a chainsaw on nation-wide TV seven days later.

And no one in the tech punditry -- all happy just to have jobs and something to write about besides the latest PC graphics card -- would question *WHY* these idiots are emasculating themselves, they'd just write tedious "thought" pieces contrasting the metaphors of Job's elegant, shiny castration versus Brin's use of loud horsepower.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Pojut]

And no one in the tech punditry -- all happy just to have jobs and something to write about besides the latest PC graphics card -- would question *WHY* these idiots are emasculating themselves, they'd just write tedious "thought" pieces contrasting the metaphors of Job's elegant, shiny castration versus Brin's use of loud horsepower.

I think they would do it for the lulz...at least I hope so, because that's what they would be providing. In excess.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[aicrules]

I think you overestimate how elegant a castration via scalpel would be. Sure the initial incision would be a bit more subtle, but the time it would take once more gristly bits were reached and the added effort needed to make it through would surely be equally as gruesome. In fact the idea of it makes me shudder blech...

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the best comment on Slashdot that I can remember. +1546 funny/insightful.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Anonymous Coward]

-1 Overthought

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole Apple-Yahoo-MS-Google circle jerk posturing is delirious.

The only circle jerk is Slashdot where only submissions linking two or more of the above named companies are posted.

And no one in the tech punditry -- all happy just to have jobs and something to write about besides the latest PC graphics card -- would question *WHY* these idiots are emasculating themselves, they'd just write tedious "thought" pieces contrasting the metaphors of Job's elegant, shiny castration versus Brin's use of loud horsepower.

You don't remember the tablet PC and how radical they were? Well, they flopped. Here comes Apple, a monster in the CE industry with it's take on the tablet years later. Why wouldn't tech pundits be all over this? Whether you like it or not, Apple, Yahoo, MS, and Google are titans in the tech industry at the moment. Slashdot is the one staging imaginary fights between them encouraging spectators to fight in the stands.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Gilmoure]

Oh, you'd be surprised at how well a scalpel can cut. But even better, one of those Japanese style chef knives. I've taken off a turkey leg with one swipe with one of those.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Anonymous Coward]

You really need to get off your high horse. GP was perfectly correct. Case in point: Steve Jobs comments about Google the other day. It's all one big phallus wagging exercise between the 'tech titans'.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[geekoid]

Newsflash:

"Companies compete is same arena, RobotRunAmok whines."

This is good for the consumer, what's your beef?

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[springbox]

With the right blade, all you need to do is hit it hard enough.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[VGPowerlord]

The whole Apple-Yahoo-MS-Google circle jerk posturing is delirious. If next week Steve Jobs called a press conference and sliced his dick off with a silver scalpel in a room full of stunned reporters, I have no doubt that -- not to be outdone -- Sergey Brin would cut off his with a chainsaw on nation-wide TV seven days later.

True, btu at least Sergey could use any Android-compatible chainsaw or bandages, rather than just ones gotten from the Apple Grocery Store.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[Reaperducer]

But the Apple ones will have at least gone through some quality control process and will likely be suitable for the job. Meanwhile the Android bandages were made with parts scavenged by the side of the road and may or may not carry infection.

Re:A Marketing Shark Feeding Frenzy

[mdwh2]

The problem is that there are plenty of other titans in the mobile industry (most notably, Nokia), who are completely ignored. There are tablets and other portable devices around.

Serious Competition

[whisper_jeff]

Ok, when they have something more than entirely made up concept stuff, then we might be able to have a discussion about serious competition for a given product. Until then, it's made up shit. I can make a video of someone using a supercomputer the size of a wrist watch, if I want - until it's actually made, however, it's just concept art.

Re:Serious Competition

[painAlley]

I bet you can't. Your just using a rhetorical device here, not actually stating a fact. I think you are incapable of making "...a video of someone using a supercomputer the size of a wrist watch..." As a result, I don't think this post qualifies as "Insightful". pA

Must have apps.

[LWATCDR]

Web apps just don't cut it Google. Apple found that out with the iPhone, Palm has learned that with the Pre. People want to have stuff that runs even when there is no internet even if it is just a game.
We also want to carry some media with us so if we are stuck on a plane with no WiFi or anyplace with no WiFi or 3G we can watch or listen to something.
Stop working on the Chrome OS and improve Android or just go right to a tablet Linux.

Re:Must have apps.

[argent]

Absolutely. If I can't use it when I'm in a lab at work (electrically noisy racks)... or for that matter a restroom near it... I'm not going to buy into it.

You can't do EVERYTHING in the cloud. The whole idea is so 1974.

Re:Must have apps.

[icebraining]

http://gears.google.com/

Re:Must have apps.

[LWATCDR]

Still limited to Javascript+Html. Actually they are dropping Gears and going to HTML 5 which is supposed to have some kind of storage model.

Just limiting it to a single language is bad enough but Javascript?

Re:Must have apps.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is because they never had the brains that Google had to actually make web apps work.
More and more Google "Apps" are becoming offline-enabled, either via Google Gears or native HTML5.
Offline Applications section of HTML5 is pretty thorough, and incredibly simple to setup. Even IE has some support for it now.

Re:Must have apps.

[jo42]

In case you haven't heard, Google has deprecated Gears in favor of the HTML5 wunderkind.

Re:Must have apps.

[icebraining]

http://pyjs.org/

Re:Must have apps.

[LWATCDR]

Still converts to JS.

Re:Must have apps.

[geekoid]

10s of millions of people play apps that won't work without an internet connection. People still play them.
Web apps are fine.

Chrome OS is going to kick the shit out of Linux in the device market if you keep up that attitude. Year of the portable device is far better then year of the desktop.

Re:Must have apps.

[nickyj]

Uh.. with google gears you don't need a constant internet connection, you don't need a connection at all. I use gears on my netbook and I can still read/compose emails, read my google reader, make new and modify docs/spreadsheets all without an internet connection.

Re:Must have apps.

[yelvington]

It don't know which is more sad: That you have no idea that Web apps can work offline, or that you got modded "interesting." http://www.google.com/google-d-s/hpp/offline_en_in.html

No worries, now Google Docs works offline: Edit your documents and view your presentations and spreadsheets – all from your browser. Changes are saved offline and sync automatically when you're back online. You don't have to do a thing. Add a Google Docs shortcut to your desktop to quickly access your documents. Learn more or watch a video about Google Docs offline.

This is not new.

Re:Must have apps.

[LWATCDR]

No I did know that. I even know that Google is planning on dropping gears because the next version of HTML is going to support gears like operations.
I just don't think that it is going to replace apps. Even with a fast connection I and many people would just rather use native apps. Also JavaScript is still just not as fast as native code even with a JIT.
Also web development actually makes it harder for small developers and even harder for FOSS developers.
With a Webapp I have to supply a server architecture that will support how ever many users decide to use my app. If my servers are slow then my app will be slow. All that costs money.
It gets worse if you go with FOSS because you can not just toss your project on a website and have people download it. Some how you must pay for a server to run the server side of your app.
I just don't see people writing apps that do any heavy DSP or image processing using JavaScript.
You are not going to write GIMP, Vorbis Ogg, Shazzam, Audicity, or any number of other apps in Javascript.
Web apps by nature are limited. Sure they can try and expose more and more functionality by expanding it and adding more built in functions but you will then be left at the mercy of the vendor and face a huge issue with platform fragmentation.

Also I have heard of race conditions happening when trying to sync Google Docs using gears. I would be careful with multiuser docs.

I've seen buzz

[RelliK]

Right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eF0y0IfpPU

No competition

[dokebi]

Ok, so iPad isn't even out yet, but google still feels threatened enough to put out a hastly put together "concept art" as a "demo". Sheesh.

One thing everyone seems to have missed about the iPad announcement is the fact that apple will have iWorks on it for $30. This has two implications:
1. Nobody else will write a full on office app for iPad.
2. Nobody will write a full office app for any other touch tablet.

Chew on that for a while.

Re:No competition

[Monkeedude1212]

I don't think I see how the second implication is being... implied?

If Open Office can run on Chrome - how hard would it be to make a tablet Port? Would those who write OO not be interested in this? Or whatabout our friends at Microsoft, who are giving away licenses for MS office in the hopes to keep their hold of office applications as tight as possible?

Re:No competition

[MindCrusher]

Ok, so iPad isn't even out yet, but google still feels threatened enough to put out a hastly put together "concept art" as a "demo". Sheesh.

On the original chromium page the video is listed as uploaded on the 25th of January. If I am not mistaken that is two days before Apple's iPad event.

Re:No competition

[recoiledsnake]

Ok, so iPad isn't even out yet, but google still feels threatened enough to put out a hastly put together "concept art" as a "demo". Sheesh.

One thing everyone seems to have missed about the iPad announcement is the fact that apple will have iWorks on it for $30. This has two implications:
1. Nobody else will write a full on office app for iPad.
2. Nobody will write a full office app for any other touch tablet.

Chew on that for a while.

Wrong on both counts. Well #1 is kind of true, but that's only because Apple bans competing applications. #2 is just plain wrong, because the full Office 2007 runs on touch tablets.

Re:No competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that KOffice is already running on the Nokia N900... I doubt it would be very hard to get it running on the gOOpAd. :>

Re:No competition

[drinkypoo]

Chew on that for a while.

I chewed on it for a couple seconds, and what I came up with is that Chrome OS is based on Linux and X11, so nobody has to develop an office suite for Chrome OS; you can just run OpenOffice.

Chew on *this*.

DVORAK support

[Anonymous Coward]

I just hope they don't make the massive oversight that Apple did with the iPad: no DVORAK keyboard support. I realize that probably fewer than 1% of people will use it, but how long can it possibly take to program that feature in? 5, 10 minutes?

Re:DVORAK support

[whisper_jeff]

How is not adding a feature that "fewer than 1% of people will use" (which I think is missing "significantly" at the beginning...) a massive oversight? It's an insignificant oversight, given your own numbers.

Re:DVORAK support

[Anonymous Coward]

At least on the simulator in has support for remapping an external (bluetooth or dock) keyboard to DVORAK. But so far you're right, the on screen keyboard layout can be changed but right now it doesn't have a DVORAK option.

I'm just waiting for this

[killmenow]

Notion Ink Adam

Re:I'm just waiting for this

[Rockoon]

Ah yes..

There was once another computer named Adam. After release it quickly became known as Coleco's "Adam Bomb" ..

..and if you wanted to set your house on fire, all you had to do was put it into a long print cycle..

Feature wise

[hdd]

We know it can ran from a flash drive, but does it actually support FLASH?

The IPad's going to have competition?

[eagee]

How could something no one wants to buy have competition?

Re:The IPad's going to have competition?

[Monkeedude1212]

You mean like Flash and Silverlite?

Re:The IPad's going to have competition?

[eagee]

>

Well, give those a name so strikingly similar to a feminine hygiene product that even my nine year old makes the association, then only allow one instance of them at a time... wait no... no, only allow one instance of other stuff because those won't be supported, throw an ungainly dongle here and there, and then yes. Yes - that's exactly what I mean.

:)

Re:The IPad's going to have competition?

[Graham J - XVI]

At least you can run "other stuff" unlike Chrome OS which runs one and only one native app.

Re:The IPad's going to have competition?

[eagee]

I mean... yea that's awesome... running lots of "other stuff" was good when I had a 286, too. I was a Newton fanboy, so I'm just bitter about the whole thing. Don't mind me.

Re:The IPad's going to have competition?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does no one -1 beat no one?

fDros7 pist

[Anonymous Coward]

name on 7he jar of An arduous what they thi8k is mod points and

Yawn

[Angst Badger]

Five to ten inches? Thanks, but I'll pass.

Is it just me, or is there anyone else out there who wants a big tablet instead of some small, sleek, fashionable, and largely useless piece of overpriced tech trinketry? At this point, I'm about to pick up an old Thinkpad on eBay and make one myself -- and still probably come out cheaper than the latest and greatest. And no, I don't need a touch screen. I'd be perfectly content to mount a few programmable keys down one side and the Trackpoint hardware on the other. All I want to do is be able to read PDFs in color and at a reasonable scale.

Re:Yawn

[drinkypoo]

Five to ten inches? Thanks, but I'll pass.

Size queen.

All I want to do is be able to read PDFs in color and at a reasonable scale.

There are numerous tablet PCs which do this already. You can pick them up used for around four hundred bucks. Still pretty spendy, I admit, but they do exist, in sizes up to 15" or so. Not having a touch screen, however, is crazy talk. I'd really like a wacom-equipped LCD tablet myself; I wouldn't even mind having to use the stylus, given its incredible increase in functionality over a touch screen.

I can't wait...

[Graham J - XVI]

...to see the iPad haters explain why a tablet that only runs a browser is better than one that can run any of thousands of touch-designed apps.

Re:I can't wait...

[shutdown -p now]

I'm an "iPad hater". They both suck out of the box; however, Google tablet would (presumably) be much more hackable in a sense that you could run other non-browser applications in it - it's just not exposed in UI.

Anyway, what I want is either something really lightweight with Win7, or an upscaled N900.

Re:I can't wait...

[Graham J - XVI]

From what I've read the "OS" will detect intrusion attempts and rewrite itself. By contrast I've got tons of hacked code on my iPhone (including video wallpaper, Android-style lock screen and Pre card-style multitasking) so my guess is the iPad will be more hackable.

Jeff Han

[copponex]

Jeff Han did this four years ago:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_han_demos_his_breakthrough_touchscreen.html

He now has a company spun off from his research at NYU:
http://www.perceptivepixel.com/

I'll use this opportunity to make a larger point: you're not going to get much progress out of the corporate game of developing a product. The difference is in these two questions:

1. What is possible to sell?

2. What is possible?

Competition would be great

[paimin]

Here's hoping that BOTH the iPad and the Chromepad are successful. A little competition here might actually make these devices pretty sweet.

Google Maps Mobile

[rwa2]

I've been playing with android-x86 on my eeepc. It's nice, but doesn't seem to have any applications.

Mostly I'm interested in getting Google Maps Mobile running on it... it's the only thing I really miss from having a Blackberry. Is there any way of getting Google Maps Mobile on a laptop / netbook?

I don't really care for an Android / iPhone / Blackberry / Symbian device and accompanying data plan just to get gmm going... it would be nice to get gmm running on a larger netbook running it and tether it to my existing data plan.

I've tried using Google Earth Plus in the past, and had it hooked up to a GPS... but it wasn't quite as useful... for one thing the zoom level was fixed to something inconvenient after each 1second GPS marker update :-/

Apple is doomed!

[Gilmoure]

Hah! They're in the middle of their tablet disaster and meltdown and now here come Google. It's gonna' be Godzilla vs that fisherman guy on the beach outside of Tokyo. Or Bambi.

Stoopid Apple, they should never released a tablet now that Google has theirs out.

it's a TRAP!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a well-guarded secret that Jobs has been a nullo since the cancer surgery. Any such public emasculation would obviously a trap to trick others into emulating him.


Mac OS X, derived from eunuchs

Digging out the old toy box

[kiehlster]

I feel like this whole iPad business is just a regurgitation of an product we've seen on the markets for ages with comparatively less power between these new iterations of tablets and today's modern PCs and those tablets of yesterday compared to the modern PCs of that day. I'd be impressed if they had these new tablets running Crysis at 90fps, but that's impossible. This news has been like watching Steve Jobs go up to his attic and digging out something from the old toy box, dusting it off, and telling the world, "Hey, I just invented this." That followed shortly by everyone else doing the same thing.

What the tablet format needs...

[Geeky]

I've been thinking about this tablet format, and I think it's got a few limitations.

For a start, you've got to hold it up or prop it against something while you use it. So, how's this for an idea... give it a hinged lid that can be used to protect the screen and as a stand when it's open. Better yet - if you've got the hinged bit at the front, why not put a physical keyboard in there to save screen space and for easier typing.

Wonder if anyone's come up with any products like that?

Re:What the tablet format needs...

[geekoid]

yes, but they are crap to walk around and use, a pain in the ass with it's limited touch screen, and a waste of space.

Re:What the tablet format needs...

[Anonymous Coward]

I plan on propping it up against the massive hardon I have after purchasing all this \/1@6R@ that's been advertised to me over the years. You can keep your keyboard AND your hinge!

Serious competition?

[Anonymous Coward]

A TRS-80 CoCo would be serious competition for the iPad. Seriously, no multitasking, expensive add-ons (keyboard dock, etc.), no camera? What were they thinking?

Small hands demo

[1155]

Did anyone else notice in the demo video that the hands on the person were freakishly small? I think Google is trying to tell us something:

ChromeOS is not for manhands.

That's right folks. Forget your hopes and dreams of manhandling the ChromeOS, this OS isn't for you. It's designed and built for those with small hands. Midgets, small children, and perhaps rodents will be able to use it. But not manhands.

Draw your own conclusions. I think that googlers are looking for people who have small hands, like women. Then the googlers will have a source of information on available women with which they can actually take on a date. It's quite an ingenious plan.

Re:Small hands demo

[pydev]

Yeah, be afraid. Carnies. Circus Folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.

Re:Small hands demo

[shadowrat]

considering it's a 5" - 10" screen, i'd say the scale of the depicted hands is positively impish. I'm fairly certain those were not drawings of human hands.

Re:Small hands demo

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel sorry for dudes with sausage fingers. all the tech nowadays have their keyboards and touch uis designed for people with long thin fingers.

How is this a Troll?

[drinkypoo]

Lately I have witnessed an explosion of Troll mods on things which are clearly not trolls. Let me help you failed moderators understand: "Troll" means saying something you do not believe in order to elicit a desired response. The above comment is Flamebait at worst, but more realistically, it is insightful. Microsoft was actually convicted of anticompetitive behavior by the USDOJ, though Ashcroft gave Microsoft a free post-conviction pass. Some other nations have also found them guilty of anticompetitive practices, and they are not giving Microsoft any free passes. I can't speak to whether that's because they have realized that the world would be better off without Microsoft, or whether they simply see a chance to prop up their sagging economies with a nice little infusion of cash, but either way they are not amused.

Re:How is this a Troll?

[tomhudson]

There's an article here about kickback against the whole idea that the world would miss Microsoft.

We have to keep in mind that a lot of people don't know anything *but* Windows. To them, Microsoft invented the PC. They don't know what it was like to "pay your dues" and help create the consumer computer market by buying all those primitive 6502 and 6808-based "home computers", often spending thousands of dollars. They would never believe that you could have a working graphical multi-user multi-tasking environment in 128k of ram @ 2 mhz.

To them, Microsoft is just "a natural monopoly". They don't remember Microsoft programs looking for specific mouse drivers to try to determine if they were running Digital Research DOS and then going "OMG YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM IS INCOMPATIBLE!" or other dirty tactics.

Re:How is this a Troll?

[Anonymous Coward]

And I moded both you and the fucking troll down. You often post semi-interesting stuff. But you need to know that Tom Hudson is the troll of fucking trolls. One of the original "troll tuesday" founders, or whatever the fuck day it was. I don't give a shit what he wants to post - he's been a fucking troll for so long, he gets a troll mod no matter what the fuck he says. I don't bother to read it. Notice that Smitty Mcgrew also got down modded for saying the same shit. We're sick of hearing his rants about how he's old and friends with prostitutes. He's a troll too.
 
Protip: Ignore those two. Otherwise you look like a similar troll, and will get modded into oblivion like they do, regardless of their posts.

Re:How is this a Troll?

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen!

And while we're at it -> APK can die in a fire too.

Meh...

[JohnLaibach]

To me it looks like a larger iPad with multi-tasking.
If you look at it more, you could conclude that it wouldn&rsquo;t work (multuple windows&#8230;) all that nice on a screen the size of the iPad.

No really new stuff. But also the iPad doesn&rsquo;t show something revolutionary.

Nonetheless, it&rsquo;s nice to see different concepts by different people.

Re:Meh...

[ascari]

When it comes to tablets slightly bigger is actually slightly better. And multitasking is never bad.

sad, sad, demo?

[farble1670]

i have swallowed the google pill for sure, but that demo just makes me sad. for goodness sake, there are already companies with *real* android tablets and many of them were demoed at CES. why did google feel the need to put together shoddy youtube video showing a fake tablet running a mocked up OS?

why don't they just spend a few more dollars to make people aware of the awesome android tablets that are already announced? for example, the vega tablet,
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/vega-tablet-beats-apple-and-crunchpad/

and the MSI tablet,
http://phandroid.com/2010/01/29/msi-android-tablet-harmony/

Re:sad, sad, demo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I know Google will become the next Microsoft

They are releasing mockup vapour ware when another competitor already has a product coming out. Sounds like what MS use to do to freeze the market while they work feverishly to catch up.

To your point, Google probably doesn't want to dilute the "brand" with such pedestrian implementation like the products announced. Yes that was sarcasm.

Re:sad, sad, demo?

[geekoid]

I would rather break my own fingers then use an MSI product.

real competition

[awb131]

I've been saying since the Apple announcement that the real competition for the iPad will not be the Kindle, or existing netbooks running Windows, but the as-yet-unreleased machines running ChromeOS.

Both are targeted primarily at "average" consumers who don't want a full-on computer, but rather an appliance that "just works," more like a phone, for certain tasks -- browsing the web, watching movies, reading books, keeping track of their photos.

That's why geeks like us find both of them to be a bit lackluster; they're not aimed at us. They're aimed at our parents.

Re:real competition

[zuperduperman]

> They're aimed at our parents.

This has been the most fascinating thing about the iPad discussion in the last week. I've had multiple Mac fanbois tell me "this is aimed at your parents" as in, a device for senior citizens to use. I find this simply astonishing - seriously - Apple is marketing a device for senior citizens? This is their new demographic? Not young, hip, mobile & trendy financially well-endowed folks, but people who live off a pension and scrape together money for bingo every Friday night? This conjecture that these people are all going to run out en masse and buy a piece of hot new technology, or that Apple would in any sane universe actually target this demographic, seems amazing.

me too?

[pydev]

I don't see why this got the "me too" tag. People have been working on Chrome OS and Android-based tables for as long as those operating systems have been out. The first Android tablets probably will ship before iPad.

this is of more commercial interest to our company

[peter303]

We mainly develop on Linux-Java platforms. Android is closer to that than the AppleOS-ObjectiveC platform.

Variable sized keyboard?

[blitzen]

The variable sized / changing position of the virtual keyboard seems like a bad idea to me. I wonder how accurate the demo video is meant to be.

You are off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

If I hadn't blown all my mod points modding your cussing flames as flamebait and trolling, I'd mod you offtopic.

Serious competition?

[gig]

The same $500 hardware with everything stripped out except the browser is "serious competition"?

This is embarrassing coming from Google. Didn't Nexus One hurt their brand enough? iPad is almost $100 cheaper than Nexus one and with a $30 data only plan and Skype is more like what the Google Phone was rumored to be.

Apple is bigger than Google and for Apple this is a full-time job, not a hobby.

Small hands -- for women? That's stupid

[jonaskoelker]

Draw your own conclusions. I think that googlers are looking for people who have small hands, like women.

Yeah, that seems stupid. Based on /. statistics, they're only like 2% of the market...

(Sorry for the teasing, ladies :P)