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Craig Mundie Wants "Internet Driver's Licenses"
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer, called for the creation of an 'Internet Driver's License' at the World Economic Forum in Davos, saying, 'If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance.' Of course, there are quite a few problems with this. For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can; and this would get rid of most of the good of internet anonymity while retaining all of the bad parts, especially in terms of expanding the market for stolen identities. Even though telephone networks have long been used by scammers and spammers/telemarketers, we've never needed a 'Telephone Driver's License.'"
will they take away your license?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Now I can tell someone they fail at the internet!
First links that link to blogs that link to articles. Then links to social networks to link to links that link to articles.
Where does the stupidity end?
that MS is just inviting crazy homeless people to come in and run their operations.
since when do laws stop the bad guys?
The road to ruin was paved with good intentions. However, that includes ludicrous ideas.
Considering that enforcing a license requirement just here in the US would be nigh on impossible without rethinking everything and that the odds of doing anything of the sort worldwide is less than zero I'm left wondering just what problem this idea is intended to solve?
Hint, it ain't any problem we users have and it ain't a problem the network operators are having. And since the practice of allowing Microsoft products to connect to the Internet is the bulk of the spam/zombie/malware problem I guess we would license every host as well as user. Any any license scheme that permitted Microsoft crap to operate would be considered toothless and any that banned them would get called 'draconian.' No win scenario. The only winning move is not to play.
Democrat delenda est
Oh, wait...
Craig Mundie is making Dick Brass' point about Microsoft losing its competent people.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
Of course, it would be completely coincidental that Microsoft would offer training, software and certification to help get your Internet driver's license, right?
It was supposed to be a tale of warning about the pitfalls of technology and big government, not a roadmap for where we should be heading. I swear there's a certain class of people that don't understand that concept or maybe they do and they just really hope they get to be the masters pet.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Although Google, et al can chip away at our privacy this would completely stifle free speech and dissent.
I know that some view ACs and their ilk as idiots clogging up discourse, but for a flip side of the coin how about the efforts to 'Out' Prop 8 contributors in Calif so they can be harrassed by gay activists?
-Not that I supported prop 8, but I do mod ACs up if they have something useful/interesting to say.
On the other hand, I don't disagree that there should perhaps be some required qualifications for hosting/administering websites, dealing with credit card transactions, userdbs, etc, but that is very different than (what I think) is being proposed.
I'm just sayin'
In other words, Windows doesn't suck - The users do.
The drivers license analogy is being used to shift some of the blame from the OS to its users.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Bruce Schneier had a pretty good takedown of this kind of argument just the other day.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
So this is like a ham license for landlines which sort of *act* like public airwaves. It's actually not SUCH a bad idea -- it sure keeps the S/N ratio up in the ham bands. Even if the test is virtually unfailable, the overall sense of earned-privilege vs. god-given-right seems to add a few percent to the general level of maturity you get. It'll never happen though!
You should have to have a license to operate Windows. Any other OS you don't need one. Licensing should be issued by the nearest LUG for a small fee.
What the hell is this bonehead talking about? They have a 90% market share. Just make up a required course that people must take to buy your software and be done with it. Or make it so that IE doesn't work unless you have used a smart card that reads your license.
1. It would probably be illegal for the US government to require "drivers licenses" for general Internet use. The Internet is primarily a medium for the dissemination of speech, and the US government is prohibited from demanding that people obtain permission before speaking.
2. Even if done privately, requiring people to identify themselves for any and all uses of the internet is likely a bad idea.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
On a thread that so richly deserves it. Here. Without undue prejudice:
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Seems like there are a lot of more important ones that should get priority.
As much as I like to joke that some people need licenses to operate a computer or use the Internet, this would be a bad thing. We'd all end up with license numbers and sites would start to require us to register with those numbers if we wanted to use those services. For many Internet-based services in Korea, you must enter a citizen ID.
The article linked in the article posted here provides some context. He seemed to have been talking about this as a way of preventing cyber attacks, you'd have your license revoked if your computer was compromised and could be used in an attack. MS seems to have been trying to cover their asses: "It's not our fault, if we would just put this intrusive system in place, which has no chance of working, but more importantly would never be funded and never built, then the problem will be solved." The next time a problem with MS products creates a serious problem, they'll say "We told you so! If you had just put up a billion dollars to make the drivers license system, it might not have completely failed, and this could have been avoided! Your fault!"
we've never needed a 'Telephone Driver's License
Probably because you don't drive a telephone.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Perhaps the licences should be handed out to Operating Systems based on compliance with web standards... I wonder if MS Windows would be given one?
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
I'm NO fan of Microsoft (which I hold responsible for a lot of the malware problems on the 'Net), nor am I a big fan of PKI (I think the implementations are way to fragile), but I think there might be a worthy idea in here.
Drivers Licenses have two uses:
1. Certification of driving skills
2. A nationally recognized identity
Consider this for use #2...
So what if the government issued an "Internet ID Card", with PKI Certs, etc, that would be used to secure email, transactions, etc? This is by no means a panacea, but as a factor in 2-factor ID, it might well cut down on some forms of malware.
Yes, there -are- civil liberty implications. But we always have the tension between known identity and guaranteed privacy.
So as a form of tougher ID on the Internet, I think this deserves to be taken seriously, and the plusses and minuses (as established here...) should be debated.
If users are like drivers, then OS providers are like car manufacturers.
So let's require drivers licenses, if and only if Microsoft:
After all, dangers cars are just as serious as dangerous drivers, right?
Excuse me, why is anyone listening to what MS has to say about Internet security, again?
I just had a packet collision!
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
This sounds like a marketing person annoyed that nearly everyone who is forced to fill out their stupid forms to get some needed content is telling Microsoft that they are 98 year old Afghan woman with an income over $100,000. I love power-tripping types like this: Lifeguards who seem to think that they are there to do anything but pull drunks out of the water. Police who think that they are there to do anything but pull drunks off their girlfriends. TSA people who think they are there to do anything but smell my feet. Politicians who think that elected office doesn't mean that they are really just failed real-estate people. Hall monitors who think they are popular. Waiters who think they have earned a tip by interrupting my conversation to see if everything is all right. Oh and failed programmers who think that by dragging their "Team" into meetings is the road to a great product. But I digress. Would an internet driver's license make the internet a better place? And more importantly who would collect the money for the licensing? That sounds like a monopoly that they could milk for decades longer than their slowly dying OS / Text editor business.
Just another attempt by to regulate and/or control the internet, I can just bet that he has a shiny Powerpoint presentation all prepped about how suited MS would be to manage the corporate planning and data management.
About as subtle as Vlad and the Count soliciting for charitable donations :
"to de Blood bank... I mean Red Cross, yes. No, you don't hawe to come in, ve vill be ower.. , Ve Vill send an agent by right avay! Oh yes it is wery conwenient for you, Ve know exactly vhere you are, I mean, ve hawe your address yes. Thank you for agreeing to be ovr wicte.. heh donor!"
Right down to the 'mvahaha!' and the obligatory Thunder and Lightning.
-Magdalene --"there are 10 types of people in the world, those who read binary, and those who don't"
Those are only the few questions I could come up with in ten minutes time. There are certainly many more beyond these. I would like to hear Mr. Mundie's answers to these questions along with the complete plan for putting this into place. I'll wait.
It's a very dark ride.
Because, if we sat idlely by, unnewsworthy retards would sign any old thing into law. A law that we would have to obey.
Such bullshit will only 'never happen' so long as there are intelligent people sufficiently informed and mobilised to oppose it.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief "Research" and "Strategy" Officer really ought to try getting his own R&D shop under control.
Maybe he should be back in Redmond trying to fix his company's joke of an R&D process (ZUNE!!!) rather than pontificate at Davos to VIPs who actually might mistake him for somebody with a clue about technology.
Tech Public Policy stuff
There's no way Windows would pass any kind of Internet-readiness test, it gets viruses and lacks the basic network security features of Unix systems. So it is weird to hear this guy say our Internet "cars" need certification.
Do you think you need to take a test to use an iPad? The reason so many XP are out there is the massive user training to go to a newer Windows nets no productivity benefit, yet people trade in their old phones for iPhone and without any training the Web browser and a couple of key apps make them immediately more productive.
Apple is working hard so computing is easy, the Unix community is working hard so computing is safe, and Microsoft says you need to take a test and get a license.
Which is all well and good until the philosopher kings who wisely and benignly watch over the accreditation process are replaced by assinine bureaucrats in the pocket of lobby groups and special interests.
Suddenly P2P programs can't get accredited anywhere, regardless of their legitimate use because they 'don't meet standards' or other such vague explanation, and exorbitant fees are charged for processing applications that cut the smaller players out of the market.
I would oppose any measure that seeks to control access to the internet. I'll gladly tolerate spam and phishers if it means I can do what I goddamned well please with the internet I pay for.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
Okay, I kid; this idea really sucks. I'm sure others here have picked up on this, but from just pondering it for thirty seconds:
I'm sure these questions can get addressed with enough thought, but I really hope this doesn't grow beyond that point.
I cannot count the number of times I have seen variations of this kind of idea here in the Comments section of Slashdot. It's funny how the same idea stated by MS is quite suddenly reprehensible...
Is there any fool out there who would actually buy this awful argument?
Here, I have made one up too: We should have licenses for eating! After all, we need licenses to drive. And there are fat people in the world.
NON SEQUITUR.
IT. DOES. NOT. FOLLOW.
I feel MORE secure when people are required to learn rules before they drive. I feel LESS secure when the government decides who can and can't communicate.
I can understand a license to drive, but a license to communicate is stupid...no...it's scary.
...this one is incredibly flawed. Different nation-states have different rules for licensing virtually everything (but not everything virtual, apparently) and getting any sort of concordance is highly unlikely.
Something tells me that if there was a license required for internet use the most common way to lose it would be involve bittorrent...
How about we regulate the banks to provide real two-factor authentication for any online financial transaction? How about we set a standard for smart-cards (hell, add the capability to dirvers' licenses) and require that PCs come with smart-card readers?
If we just had these standards in place, they would pay for themselves extremely quickly.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Microsoft doesn't want you to have to have a license to use the internet. Microsoft wants you to have to pay them for a license to use the internet.
cause that could but Microsoft out of business... Windows; unsafe at any speed.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
I think it would be even better if we mandate a security licence for designing, implementing and deploying operating systems/web browsers/etc that access the network.
For example, if you tried that for a couple of decades and could not get it right, then maybe your licence should be revoked and reinstated only after proving you code correct and only in a limited market first. (For example, desktops only, no laptops, no wireless etc.)
I really hope this will get traction!
There you go.
Fuck you Criag Mundie. Fuck you in your tiny dick hole, you elitist, ruling class, piece of shit. Shall we require government licenses to use our toasters and our televisions so that we will never burn our toast, and will be capable of understanding that not all TV, including the news is real, or good for us?
What the fuck Criag. Die in a fire.
Does he mean to imply that driving licenses have kept morons off the roads? I'm not so sure it is working around here...
I saw Craig speak at the Usenix Symposium on Internet Security in San Antonio back in 1998. I completely forget to this day what his speech was about but I know enough to remember that it doesn't matter. The speech was full of inane misdirected statements, unproven research and illogical conclusions. After speaking a while I think I, and a lot of other people stopped listening to him and managed to allow themselves to be distracted by other things. But one thing I do recall that was amusing to see was Tom Ptacek -- who probably couldn't take much nonsense from this bag of wind -- started calling shenanigans on Craig's flawed conclusions and made a public spectacle of him. To this day I think it was one of the most amusing conference moments I've ever had the pleasure to witness.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Don't feed the troll of the article.
He's Just Another Manic Mundie.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine