Craig Mundie Wants "Internet Driver's Licenses"

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer, called for the creation of an 'Internet Driver's License' at the World Economic Forum in Davos, saying, 'If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance.' Of course, there are quite a few problems with this. For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can; and this would get rid of most of the good of internet anonymity while retaining all of the bad parts, especially in terms of expanding the market for stolen identities. Even though telephone networks have long been used by scammers and spammers/telemarketers, we've never needed a 'Telephone Driver's License.'"

Comments

If you drunk e-mail...

[MrEricSir]

will they take away your license?

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[goldaryn]

If Slashdot had a breathalyser, think of all the good Editing we'd miss out on!

goldy (over the limit)

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[SimonInOz]

This is so Microsoft. Their response to any problem is to want more control. (A bit like most governments, actually)

Interestingly, this is the exact opposite of Open Source, or perhaps Wikipedia.

They are absolutely committed to the cathedral, with no thought of the bazaar.

And, for a while, it works.

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[mister_playboy]

or perhaps Wikipedia.

If you read /. often, you'd know Wikipedia is far less free than it used to be. We even have some trolls who post complaints about Wikipedia editors here. They are people who have gotten fed up with the current "I will control whatever happens on my pages" territorial mindset of some of the editors there who have all day to police their "domains".

This sort of thing drives away and discourages many people from contributing.

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[an unsound mind]

And taking a joke too far will carry the death penalty!

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[Nemyst]

I've seen some of my comments on /. removed and show up in somebody else's name a few hours later, I won't bother thinking very hard under circumstances like that.

Surely the other guy's name was Anonymous Coward?

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[chentiangemalc]

Just to clairfy - this is not the position of Microsoft, this is the view of one employee at Microsoft.

Re:If you drunk e-mail...

[VShael]

Interestingly, this is the exact opposite of Open Source, or perhaps Wikipedia.

Have you BEEN to wikipedia lately?

The moderators there LOVE control.

Just what I always wanted

[Droce]

Now I can tell someone they fail at the internet!

Re:Just what I always wanted

[Philip K Dickhead]

In the past, the Internet consisted, mostly, of smart people in front of dumb terminals.
Now, the converse situation dominates.

Slashdot is getting out of hand

[mmcxii]

First links that link to blogs that link to articles. Then links to social networks to link to links that link to articles.

Where does the stupidity end?

Re:Slashdot is getting out of hand

[Interoperable]

I agree. Posting a link to a third-hand source should get you a demerit on your internet licence.

Re:Slashdot is getting out of hand

[Kell Bengal]

I've never reached the end; the final boss is too hard.

Re:Slashdot is getting out of hand

[Miseph]

Actually, the final boss is easy. The second to last boss, Anonymous, is a bitch and a half to beat, but all it takes to kill the kitten is masturbating.

Re:Slashdot is getting out of hand

[dwarfsoft]

You have to watch out for their exploding van. You can defeat them easily with A Dog and some Curtains.

Proof

[Some.Net(Guy)]

that MS is just inviting crazy homeless people to come in and run their operations.

Re:Proof

[goose-incarnated]

Maybe they're trying to up their standards? :-)

Re:Proof

[electrons_are_brave]

Look on the bright side - if Microsoft say using the internet should be licienced like driving a car, then we could sue them like we can sue a defective car manufacturer.

we need a law?

[ralphdaugherty]

since when do laws stop the bad guys?

Re:we need a law?

[GreatBunzinni]

More importantly, this measure is not targeted at "bad guys". When some idiot such as this Craig Mundie speaks about this concept of the "internet driver's license", what he is campaigning for is the ability to not only identify everyone who uses the internet but also the convenience of having any state's repressive power to ban anyone from the internet who disrespected any arbitrary rule these fools are trying to impose on the rest of the world. And the thing is, we aren't talking about criminal acts, as these are already punished by imprisonment. This sort of measure is intended to open the door for the ability to inflict arbitrary punishment on those who do not follow rules set forth by righteous idiots who believe they know better than the stupid masses.

But hey, let's call it "driver's license", as it's a very convenient term to associate with this oppressive measure as it's widely regarded by society as banal government grant. This sort of totalitarian measure desperately needs a cuddly face to be able to fly. Let's not mention what it really is: a corporate-tailored totalitarian attack on individual freedom intended to punish non-criminal acts which are frowned upon corporate execs such as mr Craig Mundie.

From the email cited

[tyrione]

Even here in the U.S., one of the most common Internet-related questions that I receive is also one of the most deeply disturbing: Why can't the U.S. require an Internet "driver's license" so that there would be no way (ostensibly) to do anything anonymously on the Net?

The road to ruin was paved with good intentions. However, that includes ludicrous ideas.

System administrator Driver's License

[enriquevagu]

Great idea, Microsoft! Even more, the Internet Driver's License should be followed by the "System Administrator Driver's License", so only people who know the risks present in Internet, and know their own computer OS, can run with Adminnistrator privileges.

Oh, wait...

Great segue

[thethibs]

Craig Mundie is making Dick Brass' point about Microsoft losing its competent people.

Cui Bono?

[kramer]

Of course, it would be completely coincidental that Microsoft would offer training, software and certification to help get your Internet driver's license, right?

1984 is not a manual

[afidel]

It was supposed to be a tale of warning about the pitfalls of technology and big government, not a roadmap for where we should be heading. I swear there's a certain class of people that don't understand that concept or maybe they do and they just really hope they get to be the masters pet.

Re:1984 is not a manual

[shadowofwind]

I swear there's a certain class of people that don't understand that concept or maybe they do and they just really hope they get to be the masters pet.

I think most of them never reflect enough to be more than vaguely aware of it, they just think in terms of controlling their environment in a way that benefits themselves. A few of the brighter ones do have an idea of where its going, but they don't care.

I think most of the rest of us aren't smart or powerful enough to manipulate the system very much that way, but in a sense we have it coming, because we do not sufficiently value freedom. And I don't just mean freedom from oppressive governments and big business, but also freedom from lots of other things ranging from debt to chronic dependence on prescription drugs.

And yes, almost everyone wants to be the masters pet. You can cut the head off of practically any abusive power structure and it will grow back, because nearly everyone's trying to climb one rung higher on the backs of those beneath them.

On the up side, that's only half the dynamic. Some things are getting worse, but some things are getting better also.

major loss for privacy, dissent

[hguorbray]

Although Google, et al can chip away at our privacy this would completely stifle free speech and dissent.

I know that some view ACs and their ilk as idiots clogging up discourse, but for a flip side of the coin how about the efforts to 'Out' Prop 8 contributors in Calif so they can be harrassed by gay activists?

-Not that I supported prop 8, but I do mod ACs up if they have something useful/interesting to say.

On the other hand, I don't disagree that there should perhaps be some required qualifications for hosting/administering websites, dealing with credit card transactions, userdbs, etc, but that is very different than (what I think) is being proposed.

I'm just sayin'

Translation

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer, called for the creation of an 'Internet Driver's License' at the World Economic Forum in Davos, saying, 'If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance.'

In other words, Windows doesn't suck - The users do.

The drivers license analogy is being used to shift some of the blame from the OS to its users.

Re:Translation

[MichaelSmith]

In other words, Windows doesn't suck - The users do.

The drivers license analogy is being used to shift some of the blame from the OS to its users.

"If the steering wheel stops responding at 70mph, simply turn the engine off and back on!"

You work for Toyota?

Schneier already covered this recently

[StreetStealth]

Bruce Schneier had a pretty good takedown of this kind of argument just the other day.

Accept that you'll never truly know where a packet came from. Work on the problems you can solve: software that's secure in the face of whatever packet it receives, identification systems that are secure enough in the face of the risks. We can do far better at these things than we're doing, and they'll do more to improve security than trying to fix insoluble problems.

Ham radio

[KC1P]

So this is like a ham license for landlines which sort of *act* like public airwaves. It's actually not SUCH a bad idea -- it sure keeps the S/N ratio up in the ham bands. Even if the test is virtually unfailable, the overall sense of earned-privilege vs. god-given-right seems to add a few percent to the general level of maturity you get. It'll never happen though!

It's been proposed before, and it still won't work

[Adrian Lopez]

1. It would probably be illegal for the US government to require "drivers licenses" for general Internet use. The Internet is primarily a medium for the dissemination of speech, and the US government is prohibited from demanding that people obtain permission before speaking.

2. Even if done privately, requiring people to identify themselves for any and all uses of the internet is likely a bad idea.

I Don't See That Anyone Has Yet "Godwinned"

[Philip K Dickhead]

On a thread that so richly deserves it. Here. Without undue prejudice:

HITLER!

HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!

Re:I Don't See That Anyone Has Yet "Godwinned"

[Anonymous Coward]

How did you get that past the filter??

The Führer can get past any filter...

No license for having children

[Dan667]

Seems like there are a lot of more important ones that should get priority.

Re:No license for having children

[bill_mcgonigle]

Seems like there are a lot of more important ones that should get priority.

Do you plan to put people in jail for having children or take their children from them?

Maybe freedom means some people fail.

Re:No license for having children

[StrategicIrony]

Maybe freedom means some people fail.

While I sense this post is primarily founded in snarky sarcasm, I have to point out how profoundly insightful that phrase is.

Freedom means some people fail.

Alas, that is what is lost on so many....

Don't become South Korea

[BlueFiberOptics]

As much as I like to joke that some people need licenses to operate a computer or use the Internet, this would be a bad thing. We'd all end up with license numbers and sites would start to require us to register with those numbers if we wanted to use those services. For many Internet-based services in Korea, you must enter a citizen ID.

Stupid suggestion =/= serious threat

[interkin3tic]

The article linked in the article posted here provides some context. He seemed to have been talking about this as a way of preventing cyber attacks, you'd have your license revoked if your computer was compromised and could be used in an attack. MS seems to have been trying to cover their asses: "It's not our fault, if we would just put this intrusive system in place, which has no chance of working, but more importantly would never be funded and never built, then the problem will be solved." The next time a problem with MS products creates a serious problem, they'll say "We told you so! If you had just put up a billion dollars to make the drivers license system, it might not have completely failed, and this could have been avoided! Your fault!"

Licences for OS

[POds]

Perhaps the licences should be handed out to Operating Systems based on compliance with web standards... I wonder if MS Windows would be given one?

OK, I see some value in here

[david.emery]

I'm NO fan of Microsoft (which I hold responsible for a lot of the malware problems on the 'Net), nor am I a big fan of PKI (I think the implementations are way to fragile), but I think there might be a worthy idea in here.

Drivers Licenses have two uses:
    1. Certification of driving skills
    2. A nationally recognized identity
Consider this for use #2...

So what if the government issued an "Internet ID Card", with PKI Certs, etc, that would be used to secure email, transactions, etc? This is by no means a panacea, but as a factor in 2-factor ID, it might well cut down on some forms of malware.

Yes, there -are- civil liberty implications. But we always have the tension between known identity and guaranteed privacy.

So as a form of tougher ID on the Internet, I think this deserves to be taken seriously, and the plusses and minuses (as established here...) should be debated.

SOMEBODY CALL THE INTERNET POLICE

[blugu64]

I just had a packet collision!

Questions

[bXTr]

Civil rights issues aside, there are other questions about this "proposal".

• What authority would be responsible for issuing these licenses?
• What are the criteria one would have to pass when obtaining a license?
• Assuming one would have to pay a fee for the license (nothing is free in this world), how much would one have to pay?
• What exactly would the monies collected in license fees be used for?
• What authority would be responsible for policing and enforcement of being licensed?
• What would be the benefit to the licensee? What would we get in return that we don't already have now?
• How will the information being collected from licensees be safeguarded from abuse by those within and without the licensing authority?
• If I'm traveling to another country, would the license be valid there, or would I need to obtain yet another license from that country?
• What about businesses that allow Internet access to their employees? Would the individual license be valid at work, or would the company have to obtain its own license?
• Would government agencies also be required to obtain licenses?

Those are only the few questions I could come up with in ten minutes time. There are certainly many more beyond these. I would like to hear Mr. Mundie's answers to these questions along with the complete plan for putting this into place. I'll wait.

Before trying to manage the whole Internet

[alizard]

Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief "Research" and "Strategy" Officer really ought to try getting his own R&D shop under control.

Maybe he should be back in Redmond trying to fix his company's joke of an R&D process (ZUNE!!!) rather than pontificate at Davos to VIPs who actually might mistake him for somebody with a clue about technology.

Re:Actually, I think they have a point

[Kell Bengal]

Which is all well and good until the philosopher kings who wisely and benignly watch over the accreditation process are replaced by assinine bureaucrats in the pocket of lobby groups and special interests.

Suddenly P2P programs can't get accredited anywhere, regardless of their legitimate use because they 'don't meet standards' or other such vague explanation, and exorbitant fees are charged for processing applications that cut the smaller players out of the market.

I would oppose any measure that seeks to control access to the internet. I'll gladly tolerate spam and phishers if it means I can do what I goddamned well please with the internet I pay for.

Funny

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

I cannot count the number of times I have seen variations of this kind of idea here in the Comments section of Slashdot. It's funny how the same idea stated by MS is quite suddenly reprehensible...

Copyright protection

[Spykk]

Something tells me that if there was a license required for internet use the most common way to lose it would be involve bittorrent...

Re:Why do you have a steering wheel in your pants?

[chris mazuc]

[1] [2]

An extension to the idea

[sustik]

I think it would be even better if we mandate a security licence for designing, implementing and deploying operating systems/web browsers/etc that access the network.

For example, if you tried that for a couple of decades and could not get it right, then maybe your licence should be revoked and reinstated only after proving you code correct and only in a limited market first. (For example, desktops only, no laptops, no wireless etc.)

I really hope this will get traction!

Criag Mundie wants to control you.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

There you go.

Fuck you Criag Mundie. Fuck you in your tiny dick hole, you elitist, ruling class, piece of shit. Shall we require government licenses to use our toasters and our televisions so that we will never burn our toast, and will be capable of understanding that not all TV, including the news is real, or good for us?

What the fuck Criag. Die in a fire.

Re: Knowledge about etc...

[TaoPhoenix]

Don't feed the troll of the article.
He's Just Another Manic Mundie.