Google Docs Replaces OpenOffice In Ubuntu Netbook Edition

uneuser writes "Digitizor reports that the Ubuntu developers have dropped OpenOffice from the default installation of Ubuntu Netbook Edition (UNE) 10.04 and replaced it with Google Docs. Documents in Ubuntu Netbook Edition will now be opened in Google Docs by default."

Comments

Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[BlueKitties]

I think this is good, it leaves more space on your already small disk to do other things. This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ipX]

This is a net-oriented device, afterall.

Yes, with terrible wireless reception. :P

If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer

It's more like... if you want full functionality, install the package yourself?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Darkness404]

The thing is, I don't see really any benefit for this. Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features, most netbooks come with at least 20 gigs of storage (even the SSD based ones) and performance is only increasing. It might have made sense for some of the early netbooks, but with faster and faster netbooks, I just don't see the point.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[vajorie]

on your already small disk to do other things.

Hi there 2007,

The netbooks in the future (2010, welcome) have 160GB+ space... Oh, also

This is a net-oriented device, afterall.

No, it's not.

When are you going back home, by the way?

Sincerely.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Daengbo]

It's also strange to switch from Google to Yahoo! (search) and OO.o to Google Docs in the same release.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[nmb3000]

This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Except that netbooks are also designed to be ultra-portable. Unless you're always around an available wireless access point, not having office productivity software installed might be pretty annoying on that flight, bus trip, on the road, visiting family, etc.

If these NETbooks had some kind of always-available Internet access (say a 3G modem or something else) then I'd probably agree with you, but unfortunately lots of people use these devices while not online. I'm not sure this decision makes a lot of sense given the way the devices are actually used, their misleading name notwithstanding.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[maxume]

Unless they are doing each for separate reasons, rather than for the Glory of the Google.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ozmanjusri]

Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features

For many people in the netbook market, that IS a feature.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[horza]

Eh? I think you are confusing netbook and thin client. I have a netbook and the installed packages are practically identical to my PC except for games via wine. If it doesn't have a decent offline word-processor then you can pretty much kiss goodbye to anybody using it except smart PDA users.

Phillip.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Darkness404]

The netbook market is comprised of about three types of people

A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people.
B) People who go "Ooooh this is tiny I can take this on vacations/business trips/etc" (this is some people)
C) People who go "Oooh this cheap thing is going to be online 24/7, never going to be offline and I want to run no local apps on its 160 gig HDD!" (just about no one)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Thinboy00]

So why is Google bothering with Chrome OS then?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Darkness404]

Because it is a good money maker for Google. Release an OS for free with good support, mine user data, boost user stats of Google's programs. Profit.

Plus, it doesn't require much work (basically they can take Linux and Android experience and rework it) and Google has the name that everyone knows (compare how many people know Google's name compared to Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, etc.) so they can market it to device makers.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ChipMonk]

My netbook (EeePC 901) has no problem running OpenOffice.org; it has more power than the system I first installed StarOffice on (Windows 95 in 1997, converted to Linux in 1998). That was a full-fledged computer, as much as my netbook.

Or are you assuming it has to be something made since 2007? If you want to jump on the three-year upgrade cycle, there's a company in Redmond that would be very interested in doing business with you.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Nested]

Parent should read "rather than ease of access for the NSA."

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I think this is good, it leaves more space on your already small disk to do other things. This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Excellent argument by nomenclature.

I have a 4 gig drive, and was thinking about switching to Unbuntu netbook. Now I'm certainly not. While I often surf the web, I got a netbook because it is small and portable. Typing up documents on the train, outside of wifi access, is one of my primary reasons I bought such a pocketable computer.

I guess I never understood why all ultra-portable laptops are assumed to be net accessing devices. I like autonomy. I like portability.

And, of course, I have a full-fledged computer. But have we real slipped back in time where text-editing requires a "full-fledged computer"? I have over a Ghz of processor, 1GB of RAM, 4GB of memory. My computer can kick the ass out of decade old tech, and I remember when that decade old tech did some impressive things. Why is my machine, perfectly adequate on it's own, get relegated to a thin client. If I wanted that I'd install ChromeOS.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Draek]

Let me ask you: what use does a NETbook have for a dual-core CPU, 1 GB of RAM and a 160 GB hard-drive?

Your point would've been valid when netbooks first appeared, but these days they're really rather just tiny notebooks. And if you've got all that power, you may as well use it for something productive don't you think?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[rtb61]

5 types of people.

D) People who need a cheap portable 2nd computer that wont be too painful when they drop it, step on it, run it over, spill coffee on it, one they expect to replace about once a year. Hmm, I wonder if they will start selling netbooks as an option without any drive at all so you simply plug your old drive from your dead unit into it, maybe a 2nd drive slot.

E) Millions and millions of school children, similar to 'D' but not the same.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[dontmakemethink]

How moot is this argument! We're talking about linux users here. I think they can decide which is right for them and install it themselves. Who cares what comes on the install disc!

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[PopeRatzo]

The question is not if google bothers with Chrome OS but if anybody actually _uses_ Chrome OS.

It's only been available a short time. You'll see plenty of devices using ChromeOS in the coming year.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Anonymous Coward]

with terrible wireless reception. :P

Every netbook has terrible wireless reception? What?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[nocturnus]

Except that it has been possible to use Google Docs offline for almost 2 years now.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ozmanjusri]

>A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people.)

FTFY

For a start, Google Docs is available offline, so the point is moot. http://docs.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?hl=en&topic=15134

Maybe it's just a different demographic though, but most of my friends have wifi at home and wouldn't even know if they were working on or offline. If they take their laptop outside, they'll be looking for a cafe with free connections, and be browsing or IMing. The number of people who want to go somewhere outside to do office work is vanishingly small.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[jellomizer]

Although I am on record for online applications, and I am a big supporter for the idea however there are some software that can be online apps but shouldn't.

Office tolls such as Word Processors and Spread Sheets are a key one.

Why. Yes it is a netbook... However who cares. We have had These tools for generations on computers. So you are saying that these tools cannot work on a system with RAM in the Low Gigabytes, Screen Resolution 800x600+ Most of the features I use in these tools worked well (heck it was overkill) on a 486 50mhz, 4megs of ram, 640x480 display with 256 colors (800x600 with 16 colors) So none of this netbooks are underpowered junk.

Secondly these are features that can work without a network connection. The small netbook can be used in locations were **GASP** no network connection exists. Or the fact paying for a Cell connection just to type a document. It is just silly. We need good office tools default with Linux. Open Office is the closest we have. So it really needs to stay with it. Otherwise Linux will seem like a cheap as in crappy version where if you put some more money you can get a nice install of windows 7

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[WidgetGuy]

Just FYI, you can work off-line with Google Docs. Next time you go on-line, everything is automatically synchronized courtesy of the Google Gears plug-in (for Firefox & Internet Exploder). You only need to be net-connected when you want to send or share a document (but that would also be the case for OpenOffice).

Google Docs gets its "size" advantage because it is browser-based (even when being used off-line). Unless Google Docs has been significantly improved over the last six months or so, though, it's no replacement for OpenOffice (unless you use OpenOffice only to compose emails).

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[phantomcircuit]

Hmm, I wonder if they will start selling netbooks as an option without any drive at all so you simply plug your old drive from your dead unit into it, maybe a 2nd drive slot.

How often is the drive the part that survives?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Billly Gates]

The only good thing about google docs are superior .docx support and its ability to share documents.

Otherwise, I feel like I am using Word 2.0 on Windows 3.0 or macOS 5 back in the 1980s.

Its not practical that it does not even have a grammar check.

How much more powerful is a netbook compared to a late 1980's computer with the same feature set of Google Docs?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ipX]

Every netbook has terrible wireless reception? What?

In general they do. Especially if ur stealinz it from a neighbor. :P

Of course there are good ones too but I would say they are the exception. I've only owned a few netbooks. So that is what I'm basing my opinion on. That and trying to steal my neighbor's wireless signal with them. ;)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[pj81381]

The netbook market is comprised of about three types of people A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people. B) People who go "Ooooh this is tiny I can take this on vacations/business trips/etc" (this is some people) C) People who go "Oooh this cheap thing is going to be online 24/7, never going to be offline and I want to run no local apps on its 160 gig HDD!" (just about no one)

What about tablet PCs and "smartbooks"? Manufacturers seem to think the market is trending towards C. This change makes sense especially considering tablet PCs' limited functionality as a productivity tool, as well as (relatively) limited hard disk space. Even following your assumption that just about everybody is or will be in category A, this change still makes sense for UNR. People in category A can still install OpenOffice or whatever other applications they want, just like they would on say Windows...or (perhaps more appropriate wrt your comment) just install Ubuntu Desktop.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[hairyfeet]

I agree with you and go one step further...if all they cared about was the space why not go with Abiword? It is small and light, thus great for Netbooks, runs on all the major OSes, again great because if one likes it they can use it at home as well as on the road, and gives you a full featured word processor without the bloat.

Who knows, maybe Google cut them a check. But it seems to me Abiword would be a better fit for a netbook than Google Docs. Can anyone tell us how Google Docs runs on ultra low powered devices like low end netbooks? Because I have run Abiword on machines as low as 400MHz and it was quite snappy and very comfortable to work in.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[nine-times]

I can think of two benefits: Google Docs is generally quicker than OpenOffice and it takes up less space. If you're talking about a relatively underpowered computer with a small hard drive, then I can imagine preferring a lightweight, quick office suite rather than a fully-featured one.

most netbooks come with at least 20 gigs of storage (even the SSD based ones) and performance is only increasing... with faster and faster netbooks, I just don't see the point.

With faster and faster netbooks, I start to wonder whether "netbook" is a meaningful classification anymore. When people started talking about netbooks, I asked, "What's the difference between a netbook and an ultraportable laptop?" The answer came back, "It's only really powerful enough to run a web browser and has almost no internal storage. The idea is that you'll mostly only use it to run web applications." As netbooks get faster, have bigger hard drives, and are running full desktop operating systems, I'd like to re-ask my question.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[prockcore]

If it doesn't have a decent offline word-processor then you can pretty much kiss goodbye to anybody using it except smart PDA users.

I don't use an offline word-processor on any of my machines.. I can't even imagine a scenario where I'd need one. So don't speak for everyone.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Nakor BlueRider]

I doubt they expect anyone to go out of their way to use it. The idea is that they can get some companies to use it OEM in the hopes that a lot of customers using those devices won't bother to change their OS.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[tftp]

Although I am on record for online applications, and I am a big supporter for the idea however there are some software that can be online apps but shouldn't.

Also people work with many documents that shouldn't ever be uploaded onto servers that someone else controls. That can be company documents or just your financial data, or anything else you don't want revealed. If you are really concerned, you can install full disk encryption. But that will do nothing for safety of documents "in the cloud" .

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[koona]

with faster and faster netbooks, I just don't see the point................... Well I do,

Ms Office, Ooffice, and other full blown word processors are just too cumbersome for realisticly integrating with fast paced net work. A notepad replacement, or richtext editor would usually fill the bill. Adding a google docs option puts some nice iceing on the cake without all the native overhead involved with the others. I call that lean, clean elegance.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those two "new" points are covered by point A. Cheap device at less the cost of a "real" computer.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[skine]

I almost fall into "D", but not quite.

I have a desktop computer, which serves most functions while at home. Basically, it's my primary internet machine.

I have a netbook (MSi U210), and while its primary use is for note-taking at school (LaTeX in real-time is difficult, but not overly so), I also make good use of the HDMI output.

So basically, I like having the option of a highly portable system that is capable of playing HD video.

I really disagree, however, with the claim that a netbook is something that is not too painful when it is dropped. If you aren't concerned with a loss of a $200-$500 machine, why the hell aren't you buying an ultraportable instead of a netbook?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[CSMatt]

Except that some of us buy and use netbooks because of their portability, not just their Internet access.

I use OpenOffice.org on my netbook to do work, because I do not want to use Google Docs and because carrying around my main laptop has become a hassle. While I'm certainly smart enough to just install the package back in through the repositories, I think it would be much better if Ubiquity asked the user whether he or she wanted to use an online office suite or a local one. Most newcomers to non-Windows platforms aren't going to know that OpenOffice.org is there if they aren't informed of its existence, and I doubt that I am alone in preferring a local suite to an online one, even on netbooks.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Hadlock]

How small is the hard drive on your netbook? I bought the cheapest one I could at retail in October of last year and it still came with a 160gb hard drive. Perhaps first generation Eees have hard drives smaller than 30gb.... but it's time we stopped supporting their (highly flawed) low end specs. 400 vertical pixels? 2gb hard drive? No thanks. Lets aim for the 32gb minimum market segment and move forward.
 
Open Office runs just fine on my Atom 270 processor in UNR 9.10

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Hadlock]

The drive is the only part I port over from computer to computer. My primary drive (just the OS, I use a different drive for the swap and data) is an ancient 7.2gb drive that still loads XP in under a minute. Yeah its kind of strange to have a 7gb boot drive in the same computer with a 500gb "apps" drive and a 1tb "data" drive, but once windows from the 7gb drive is loaded into ram it just spins down and isn't used again. Makes reinstalling windows a snap after a virus too (since all the drivers are local on another hard drive). Hard drives also can withstand insane G-Forces considering all the moving parts (and their impressive precision) they have.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Antiocheian]

Or just ignore Ubuntu and install XP + Openoffice or Office 2003. I am producing documents for my work from a netbook with an external monitor and a Unicomp keyboard on Openoffice right now.

Feels like a full-fledged computer to me.

Google docs ? Why should I depend on the Internet for all my work ?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Knuckles]

OO.o is bloated and slow. Google Docs isn't.

Except that that's not true enough to make much difference. I occasionally support a friend's Samsung NC 10, which has a first-generation Atom, a non-SSD HD, 1 GB RAM, and runs Ubuntu Netbook Edition. It loads OO.org in a breeze and it's totally ok to work with it.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[that this is not und]

My wife doesn't either. The only thing she uses on her computer is her web browser.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[techno-vampire]

Its not practical that it does not even have a grammar check.

Not everybody needs a mechanical grammar checker. In your case, however, I can see how that's a concern.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[that this is not und]

but it's time we stopped supporting their (highly flawed) low end specs.

Who is this 'we' you speak of?

Do you want the whole tech community to abandon support for hardware older than two years, or just the Open Source community, or is it just that you have a hamster in your pocket?

OSes like Linux have the virtue that you don't need to run them on the latest hardware. Or they used to.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[lazybeam]

I think a netbook would have to be classified as a small, cheap ultraportable ideal for using the internet. This includes good wireless connectivity - I just got a Samsung NC10 with a built-in HSDPA modem so I have internet practically everywhere I go. I know not all "netbooks" have 3G but they "should" for great justice. It's like the laptop/notebook difference. I think there is one now (notebooks are smaller) but there wasn't always, as far as I knew anyway.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[geminidomino]

Hmm, I wonder if they will start selling netbooks as an option without any drive at all so you simply plug your old drive from your dead unit into it, maybe a 2nd drive slot.

How often is the drive the part that survives?

Pretty often, if compared with the screen.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[some_guy_88]

Ms office compatibility is important to a lot of people. Google docs is better in this regard than abiword I believe but I haven't used either in a long time.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[blind biker]

I agree with you and go one step further...if all they cared about was the space why not go with Abiword [abiword.com]?

I'll make a guess: they didn't select Abiword, because it's probably still instable and bug-ridden. I try Abiword from time to time, and it usually crashes when trying to open even the simplest Word document, or while I try to edit a formula, or while I try to do something even slightly exotic (read: anything that isn't just plain text without formatting). In my view, anyone who praises Abiword, hasn't used it very much.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[blind biker]

Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features

I am a big OpenOffice fan AND user. I think it's great and I will continue to use it for my scientific documents, presentations and drawings. It's a nearly unbeatable package for many reasons. That said, Google Docs does have ONE feature that none other office suite has, at least not quite as well implemented: groupwork. Google Docs allows concurrent editing in a way and scale that I have not seen anywhere else, and the only reason people are not crazy about it, is (I guess) because it's a paradigm shift in way of working. If/when people realize the potential of groupwork offered by Google Docs, this office suite could become one of the most popular, without actually replacing the others. It could also increase the popularity of OpenOffice and the other office suites that save in ODF formats. I can imagine doing part of the work with Google Docs for parallele editing with a co-author, and then finalize it with OpenOffice. For example.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Hadlock]

The entire market segment only extends back to october 2007 or so. The number of netbooks sold between July 2008 and January 2010 is something close to 100 times the number of netbooks sold before July 2008. Yes, it sucks that your early adopter Eee is underclassed and below modern standards, but I'd rather we go ahead and stop optimizing for the incredibly small minority and start optimizing for the standard atom 270, 1024x600 1gb that is roughly 80% of all netbooks ever manufactured.
 
The 286 does all the office applications you'll ever need, but we standardized on the 386 due to it being vastly superior. Mac System 6 was speedy as all fuck, included a TCP/IP stack and 10mbps eithernet drivers, but we standardized on System 7.5 because it was vastly more extensible. It's good to provide some amount of backwards compatibility for legacy users, but when a vastly better set of hardware comes along and is embraced by the general public, write your standard on that, and move forward.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[priegog]

And to be perfectly honest (anal) about it, you CAN turn on "offline mode" in google docs so that you can access your files offline and create new ones. So, on the contrary to most people here, I don't quite disagree with the "online" side of it, but rather, with the "Google" side of it. Sure, probably everyone on /. has a Google account, but most normal people don't. My granny certainly doesn't (she has hotmail like most of the "vanilla" computer users out there), and she just bought her second netbook. Why should she be forced to create an account with some company to be able to use the office suite? I do agree with the people here who were suggesting abiword, if hdd space and cpu power REALLY were the reason Oo got shafted. This will just hurt Ubuntu

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[blackest_k]

It's quite possible to have a full install of ubuntu on a EEE701 with a 4GB sdd drive and still have swap on.

Space isn't that much of an issue with the sd card slot or usb drives adding more storage is easy. Data can be used easily from anywhere.

Ubuntu does have a few dependency issues with packages being connected that don't need to be really. For example default games or no default games there is no middle ground can't just keep the couple i play now and again.

UNR is a failure for me because they do silly things like this. open office is a good thing to have on a base install disk. However it shouldn't be made awkward to delete it.

UNR could concentrate on fixing the UI's of applications that don't fit on the screen.
or removing unnecessary dependencies such as mono or lumping all the default games into one package

They shouldnt be tweaking the kernel (dropping reiserfs support for one example)
taking nano out of the default install was another annoyance (at least that was easy to add back).

The people working on unr seem to be lacking in experience in fact recently even mainstream ubuntu maintainers seem to be intent on driving people to debian.

I won't use UNR I have no confidence in the maintainers at all. Seems like UNR is training wheels for new distro maintainers.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[azgard]

I use netbook (EEE 901) every day in the subway, and there is no wireless. In fact, I don't use wireless on my netbook except I am at home (where I connect to my router, but since I also have a desktop, I don't do that often).

Either way, I prefer normal Ubuntu (customized a little to take less screen space) to UNR, so I don't care about this move.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[sensei moreh]

If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer

I did - it just happens to be a small (8.9 -inch screen), lightweight (1.1 kg), and lacks an internal optical drive. The really nice thing about it is that it doesn't need to be connected to another device for me to create and/or edit documents and images. I used dumb terminals back in the mid-1970s. Those were not the good old days of personal computing.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[jgrahn]

The thing is, I don't see really any benefit for this. Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features, most netbooks come with at least 20 gigs of storage (even the SSD based ones) and performance is only increasing.

Can you still get SSD netbooks? I see none for sale here. My old Acer Aspire One came with a 8GB one, and OpenOffice. (Of course, that Lin-pus stuff was useless so I blew it all away, and installed Debian. Without OpenOffice; if you like word processors, you're probably better off with Windows.)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[yelvington]

You're living in the past.

This project isn't aimed at the $450 mini-laptops that claim to be netbooks. It's aimed at the $199 reference designs for ARM-powered true netbooks that may have touchscreens and may not necessarily have a keyboard.

If you want Ubuntu for a 10-inch, 2-gig laptop with a 250-gig drive, install the regular version.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[icebraining]

I can think of two benefits: Google Docs is generally quicker than OpenOffice and it takes up less space. If you're talking about a relatively underpowered computer with a small hard drive, then I can imagine preferring a lightweight, quick office suite rather than a fully-featured one.

Doesn't that hold true for Abiword, though? It's faster and definitively smaller (30MB with deps) than OO.o, and supports .doc and .docx.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[pydev]

Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features,

It offers one very important feature: no need to sync anything.

For a netbook, that's exactly what's needed.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Hutz]

And no one would ever need to write anything on a plane or a car or some other location where they don't have internet access.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Haeleth]

If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

"Netbook" is what it is called, not what it is. What it is is a fully-fledged computer that can be held in one hand and fits comfortably in a small bag. It does not have a permanent Internet connection, unless you are in the tiny minority who never, ever travel out of range of free wifi hotspots.

But Ubuntu Netbook Edition is irrelevant in any case. Who uses such things? They offer nothing of value. All these "netbook editions" were dreamed up in the brief days of 7" screens and tiny SSDs. Modern netbooks with 10" screens and hard disks can run the regular version of the OS very happily.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ubrgeek]

And besides, you'll be storing everything in Google's database (or some other cloud repository) so who cares? You just reconnect and you've got all of your data again.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Quietlife2k]

I don't get it.

If the device is powerful enough to run a browser well enough to run Google Docs, then it is powerful enough to run Open Office locally.

When there is *cheap* *universal* wireless broadband then maybe, just maybe I can see the point..

Without it why would I use software that means that I loose needed functionality when I'm in a place with no broadband ? Forget using it when you go camping,hiking,off roading etc..

Flash storage is relatively cheap, exactly how much would an additional 1Gb for local apps add to the final sale price of a netbook if the existing devices are not big enough ?

Would sir/madam like the "works only on the internet" device for $XXX ?
Or would you prefer the "always anywhere" version for $40 more ?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[nine-times]

I still don't think there's a distinction between laptops and notebooks. Those terms are synonymous in my head. I thought it was just a marketing distinction of which term the company who produced it thought sounded better.

The for some reason you have "desktop" computers even though they usually sit under the desk, and laptops usually sit on the desktop. I don't know, I'm not going to go back and reinvent terms, but I don't see the point in claiming "netbook" as a distinct class if it's just an ultraportable which is good at using the Internet. There have been laptops of various sizes that have built-in cellular data access.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[hairyfeet]

I don't know what exactly has been going wrong with your Abiword, but I just used the latest version to open a test doc I keep around for seeing if a word processor or other text editor is gonna choke. This thing is 2.5Mb of headers and footers and page numbers and links and images. A really nasty doc cooked up with no less than 3 versions of Office and 1 version of Open Office. How did it do?

While it took it a little over a minute to open that mess up on a 1.8GHz Sempron, when it did the doc looked correct and was easily edited and saved. Maybe you got a bad install, maybe there is some other problem, I don't know. But if it will open this mess of a doc without spewing word salad or crashing I consider it a pretty decent piece of software and certainly better than giving up my privacy and sending all my work straight to Google.

And as for the other poster who wanted to know if Abiword did spreadsheets like Google docs...uhhh...why exactly would you be working on spreadsheets in a word processor? For spreadsheets there is Gnumeric which is also free, light, and according to the wiki has earned itself a niche in statistical analysis and other scientific jobs due to its accuracy. Sounds to me like a better choice than throwing away privacy and trusting everything to the Google cloud, wouldn't you agree? And for those that want to share and edit documents over the web Abiword has AbiCollab

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Philip K Dickhead]

Google is EVIL. Period.

Google is no cooperating with the NSA. They are a fully-funded CIA company operation, with stock-price manipulation managed in a hideous outgrowth of the "plunge protection" team.

Look. George Herbert Walker Bush and his invisible masters are teh real, secret government in the USA. The former head of the secret police has been the Defense Secretary for the past 2 administrations.

The company captured the US. This became apparent as they engineered the killings of JFK, RFK and MLK - then ensured the downfall of Nixon - to be replaced by Ford, one of the lead stooges on the Warren Commission.

Google is the new name for Big Brother. This is the principal tool for social control and monitoring of the shadow-corporatist government, enforced through the "TLA's"

Use this shit, and it's like kissing your own prison floor.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/02/googles-reported-tie-up-with-nsa-raises-concern-/1

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020304057.html?wpisrc=nl_tech

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/9612

http://groups.google.com/group/global-text-project-general-group/browse_thread/thread/d7256b9b18f0b0a7

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6130M120100204

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CIA_creates_miniGoogle_0331.html

http://www.google-watch.org/jobad.html

http://911review.org/Alex/reference/google_and_CIA.html

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[gandhi_2]

When will the "jew-controlled uber-shadow-government overloards" let their Google search books without weekly legal battles?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[apoc.famine]

In my first generation, heavily used EEE 701 it is. The wireless card died a month ago. The left-click bar doesn't work anymore either. But the drive still works fine.
 
That may be in part because I put the OS on the drive, and put /tmp /opt /var and /home and swap on an SD card, to prevent drive hammering. Figured I'd be easier and cheaper to replace an SD card every year or so than replacing the internal SSD. Go figure that I haven't replaced the SD card yet, and the wireless is dead....

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Crudely_Indecent]

The netbooks I gave my daughters for Christmas have dual-core Atom processors and 160GB drives - and they run KUbuntu Netbook Remix (as opposed to the Windows 7 installation they came with)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Idbar]

Well, although there was a market originally called UMPC (for tiny computers), the so called netbooks appeared as a solution for people complaining about tiny PCs to browse the Internet and typing on small keyboards or using stylus type of devices.

But, of course, that doesn't mean that you can't add functionality and features. The "old" music devices ran off the FM/AM networks, then they added cassette decks, CD drives and now flash memory for your pleasure. Why the NETbooks should be running from Internet, and not allowing people to have their local stuff?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Omestes]

I actually think its a decent idea, and I will probably go scurry off and buy a ChromeOS netbook (or Tablet!) when they come available. It seems that the netbook market has lost touch with the idea that made it attractive (to me at least), that of very small, light, simple portable computers. Instead they are now somewhat cheap, underpowered, laptops for people not willing to spend a lot on full laptops.

To me the ideal netbook would be the one that has the least bloat, is the smallest (10.1" is too big, and 9" seems to gone the way of the dodo), lightest, and uses the least possible amount of power and storage. Ideally, it would fit in a cargo pocket of my pants, have a battery that lasts 6+ hours, and be light enough to not pull down the previously mentioned pants without a belt on. It would not run some complex OS with tons of features (Windows) by default, saving me the work of having to stick Ubuntu on it, which isn't optimal either (being another hideously complex OS).

My ideal netbook won't have a full, memory and resource heavy, office suite. Google Docs is perfect.

I have a rather powerful PC for the heavy lifting. I have a rather midling old laptop for running around doing weighty tasks on the road (okay, gaming), I'd rather a netbook didn't try to fill these roles. I'd rather it be a cheap, light, energy efficient, simple device that I can take with me to work (or coffee) for light web browsing, and lighter still work.

In short, I want the simplest "information appliance" possible. ChromeOS seems wells suited to this.

Yes, my opinion isn't universal. Yes, other people want other things. But, also, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[u38cg]

You mean, you can see *why* that is a concern. And beside's, OP's post was, strictly, grammatical.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[techno-vampire]

I don't like to be a grammar nazi, but if you think the OP's post was grammatical, maybe you need a grammar checker yourself. (Hint: take a better look at the first word of what I quoted.)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[nxtw]

Most netbooks use those craptacular Broadcom chips.

I've seen many with (presumably cheaper) Ralink or Realtek chips. And I improved wireless performance in one netbook by replacing it with a Broadcom card.

In my experience the cheapest way to make the user experience better on a random netbook better is slapping a Intel 3945 in it.

The netbooks I have used have poor quality antennas. I've used the same model Broadcom card in a netbook and a laptop (MacBook Pro), and the MBP had significantly better wireless performance on the same network. (Both were 802.11g, so it had nothing to do with the MBP having antennas intended for use on 5 GHz.)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[AthanasiusKircher]

I don't use Abiword on a regular basis, but if I remember correctly, Abiword was one of the first word processors to support DOCX when MS Office 2007 came out. I couldn't open things in OpenOffice, so I had to use Abiword because of its better compatibility with MS Office. I don't use it on a regular basis, but I've often seen DOC files look better (i.e., closer to the original) when opened in Abiword than in OpenOffice.

As for a comparison to Google Docs, it really depends on what features you want. Most of the formatting tends to be preserved pretty well in Abiword in my experience, while there are some features that Google Docs just doesn't have. For other features, it may be the reverse, but usually I've found Google Docs to screw up formatting more for basic things.

That said, I don't use Abiword because it's buggy and awful, so that's a better reason to ignore it rather than MS Office compatibility.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Petrushka]

While it took it a little over a minute to open that mess up on a 1.8GHz Sempron, when it did the doc looked correct and was easily edited and saved. Maybe you got a bad install, maybe there is some other problem, I don't know.

Different OS maybe? I find AbiWord decent under Windows, but pretty horrible under Linux.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[countertrolling]

The ideal netbook?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[countertrolling]

...and you've got all of your data again.

Yeah, right...

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[dc0de]

I agree with you. My eeePC 1000HE runs full blown Ubuntu, (not the netbook edition), and runs the full version of Open Office. I've only made two minor upgrades, a $28 memory upgrade to 2GB, and a more expensive upgrade to remove the 160GB HDD, and replaced it with a 128GB SDD.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[BrokenHalo]

You just reconnect and you've got all of your data again.

You mean Google has it. If you're happy with that, I guess you're lucky. I just can't bring myself to trust Google with my data, no matter how inconsequential it may seem.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[mikechant]

If it doesn't have a decent offline word-processor then you can pretty much kiss goodbye to anybody using it except smart PDA users.

It only takes a couple of clicks and a password to install openoffice if it's not installed by default.

And google docs etc. work fine offline and then sync when reconnected.

What's the problem?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[mikechant]

But Ubuntu Netbook Edition is irrelevant in any case. Who uses such things? They offer nothing of value. All these "netbook editions" were dreamed up in the brief days of 7" screens and tiny SSDs. Modern netbooks with 10" screens and hard disks can run the regular version of the OS very happily.

Wrong. My eeePC 1000 with 10" screen has a resolution of 1024x600. UNR adjusts dialog boxes etc. which assume 1024x768 so they are fully onscreen.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[eyore15]

I run a System76 Starling with UNR. It's used in my [high school] classroom for projecting Impress presentations and when I'm wandering around the building for things like faculty meetings. The wireless in the Starling is solid; the access points aren't. Having to do everything in the cloud will kill me. It might not be so bad if Canonical continues the practice of offering OOo installation under Synaptic. I hate the idea of using Google Docs. I'm devoted to OOo, have invested a lot of time in learning it, and am not interested in being forced into something else. My desktops all run OOo. I should at least have the option (via synaptic?) of using OOo.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[ubrgeek]

I'm not saying I like, or most likely most of the folks on /., I'm just saying it's going to be the way most people will use it.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook.

[Omestes]

Not even close. The iPad is overpriced for its extremely limited feature set. It doesn't do most of the things I want a computer to do, such as writing documents (no keyboard, don't want to carry accessories for an external keyboard), and browsing the internet (no Flash). It's tied to the terrible "app" micro-payment model.

Its also probably a bit too fragile for my liking. A laptop/netbook format has intrinsic protection for the most fragile component, the screen. I also don't like the idea of the touchscreen being the primary interface.

All of this, mind you, is a matter of preference. I'm not going to hop into any fan boy war. The iPad might be nice for some, but for me it doesn't quite meet the need for a cheap, simple, netbook.

A little heavy for a netbook

[HangingChad]

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook. I think that was a good choice and if you needed a lighter weight word processor, you could always opt for Abiword.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[Anonymous Coward]

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook. I think that was a good choice and if you needed a lighter weight word processor, you could always opt for Abiword.

I use openoffice on my netbook, and it works fine.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[Darkness404]

Um, what are your specs? While OOo was -slightly- sluggish on my first-gen netbook (EEE 701 with a 633 Mhz Celeron M CPU and 512 MB of RAM), it should work just fine on any modern netbook. The thing about a word processor is that its so essential to have a good one for a lot of basic tasks for the older generation. About the only thing I use my word processor for is to write papers, however a lot of older people I know use it to mail physical letters and such.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[PCM2]

Even with an SSD the lauch time is unacceptable.

Well, that "even with an SSD" is a little misleading, since the SSDs that ship in Eee PCs are really slow. On my Eee PC 901, the secondary drive is so slow that its write speed is actually a bottleneck when downloading over a fast Internet connection. The boot drive is faster, but not impressively so.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[Totenglocke]

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook.

There's that word again! Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?

On a more serious note, I don't see how OpenOffice is taxing for even the lowest power netbooks. So it might take a few seconds to boot - big deal. People are so used to programs loading instantly on modern hardware that they forget that it used to be normal to wait a good 30 seconds for a typical program to load and think that waiting 2-3 seconds for a program to load is a crime against humanity.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[Vexorian]

At least the ubuntu 9.10 version of OOO runs just fine on my aspire one D250, and it also ran fine on my old 701 4G ASUS eee.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[drinkypoo]

My EEE 701 boots way faster than my LT3103u. And it's actually running a variety of Jaunty vs. the Karmic install I have on the faster machine (1.2GHz Athlon 64 with 2GB of low-latency memory vs. 900 MHz Celery with 1GB of mediocre stuff.) Karmic has numerous boot time improvements over Jaunty. And I'm talking about logging in and the system becoming usable, with the disk light calming down and all. OO.o was very slow to start on this system, and is plenty slow to start on the 3103. Abiword jumps right up and gets ready to go. OO.o is excessively bloated for a low-end netbook.

I don't know what you mean by boot/secondary drive on your EEE 901, I know nothing about 'em. And maybe you have a fantastic connection, but I sure don't. Also, write speed is irrelevant when we're talking about application startup time, or if it is not in this case, that's just another reason to use Abiword over OO.o.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[harmonise]

if you needed a lighter weight word processor, you could always opt for Abiword.

True, but there's more to OpenOffice than just a word processor.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[tftp]

People are so used to programs loading instantly on modern hardware that they forget that it used to be normal to wait a good 30 seconds for a typical program to load

Yes, they forgot the DOS days, and they are happy about that. Why in the world they'd go back if they don't have to?

think that waiting 2-3 seconds for a program to load is a crime against humanity.

I have a reasonably fast Vista notebook (Windows score 4.2.) MS Word 2003 starts in ... let me measure ... 4 seconds, and I can start typing. OpenOffice starts in ... let me measure ... in 25 seconds. Now, 5x difference is a major one, and this notebook has 2 GB of RAM (a netbook may have less than that - RAM eats power.)

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[shutdown -p now]

If you want a lightweight but good text processor and spreadsheet for Linux, and don't mind having to pay for a closed source application, SoftMaker Office is very neat. The text processor there is fast and more powerful that AbiWord, and way more compatible with MSOffice formats (I think it actually beats OO.org there).

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[r7]

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook

"Heavy", for a "netbook"? what on earth are you talking about? I own an MSI Wind which cost all of $280 USD. It has a 40GB hard drive, 2GB RAM (upgraded from 1GB for $12), 802.11, ethernet, vga, and three USB ports. Openoffice loads in less time on this netbook than on my desktop. Why would I opt for something as feature poor as Abiword or Google Docs given all that OO has to offer?

Ubuntu's deal with Google is nothing more than horse trading. They were simply paid more by Google than by Sun/Oracle. Bottom line, end of story. Install Debian if you don't like corporate back room deals. Or install Ubuntu and run 'aptitude install Openoffice'. But don't for a minute believe the maketing hype that this was somehow meant to benefit netbook consumers.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[pieterh]

It is quite easy to upgrade the secondary (and primary) drives in the Eee 901 or Eee 1000 with fast SSDs. I've done this on two machines including my main travel machine, the Eee 1000.

Without that upgrade, running anything at all from the secondary (larger) SSD is horrible. E.g. FireFox, which continually writes to disk, just blocks for seconds at a time, over and over.

With the upgrade, it all works beautifully.

OpenOffice is, by the way, more than fast enough for working on large 200-page documents. The main known problem with OOo is in editing large spreadsheets. But for documents, and presentations, it's been fast on Linux boxes since 1999.

The main advantage of Google Docs is easy collaboration between different people, and automatic backup. Losing data on random portable devices is a serious problem that hurts more people than performance or feature changes.

So Google Docs is probably a good choice for beginners, and since most buyers of netbooks in my recent experience (after the geeks all bought theirs) are women with little previous experience... it makes perfect sense.

Anyhow, it's Ubuntu! One click and you install OpenOffice.org.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[drinkypoo]

Without that upgrade, running anything at all from the secondary (larger) SSD is horrible. E.g. FireFox, which continually writes to disk, just blocks for seconds at a time, over and over.

Well, this is not my experience of running Firefox with a bunch of extensions under Jolicloud Linux on my EEE 701 SD (Surf 4G) with 1GB RAM. There is very little disk access after launch. Perhaps you need to disable disk caching or something.

OpenOffice is, by the way, more than fast enough for working on large 200-page documents.

After waiting for it to load, sure. Abiword jumps up and lets you work on large 200-page documents quickly.

The main known problem with OOo is in editing large spreadsheets.

I haven't tried editing large spreadsheets in it, but gnumeric starts a heck of a lot faster than OO.o calc, too. Why wait? The average user needs nothing in OO.o that is not in gnumeric.

Anyhow, it's Ubuntu! One click and you install OpenOffice.org.

Pretty sure it takes four clicks and a password. I can't tell though because I've modified my menus etc.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[Totenglocke]

I've run Vista with Office 2007 and Ubuntu with Open Office 3.0 on the same laptop (that's about 3 years old and was only average specs when it was new) and the Ubuntu with Open Office was much faster to load. That's what we're talking about here - Open Office on Ubuntu, not on Vista (which runs everything slower).

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[PCM2]

Apparently the Eee PC Surf 4G uses far better equipment than the Eee PC 901, because my experience is pretty much exactly the same as Pieterh's (above). The secondary SSD that ships with the 901 is about as fast as a USB keychain drive. I have to put my Firefox profile on the boot drive or it's basically unusable (due to slow writes, to the cache etc.). As far as I can tell, in general Eee PC models with SSDs are actually slower than the ones with traditional hard drives. (But speed is not the only reason why you might want an SSD.)

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[r7]

I have a reasonably fast Vista notebook (Windows score 4.2.) MS Word 2003 starts in ... let me measure ... 4 seconds

Never ceases to amaze me how few Windows users know about all the autoloaded applications that put themselves into memory at boot time. MS Word doesn't load in 4 seconds unless it is autoloaded. All those autoloaded applications cause anything that's not autoloaded to run slow because there's less ram available.

Of course OpenOffice can be autoloaded too but it doesn't autoload itself by default, without telling you.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[drinkypoo]

The part of your comment that makes me snicker the most is that I've run Firefox on a USB keychain drive, and it was fine. The app and the profile resided there. I disabled disk caching. Have you disabled disk caching?

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[PCM2]

Have you disabled disk caching?

Nope. Why should I? You started out by talking about how something was slow "even with an SSD," and now you're asking me how many things I've disabled to make a Eee PC run like normal computer? Whatever, man.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[drinkypoo]

You started out by talking about how something was slow "even with an SSD,"

I was talking about something that requires mostly reads and seeks, which is faster on an SSD.

and now you're asking me how many things I've disabled to make a Eee PC run like normal computer?

Single- or narrow-channel SSDs are slow to write, fast to read, no time to seek. HDDs are medium speed to read, medium to write, and have to seek. Use them accordingly.

Whatever, man.

If you misuse technology, it fails. A netbook is not a PC, except when it is. I'd have thought you'd know the difference.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook

[PCM2]

If you misuse technology, it fails. A netbook is not a PC, except when it is. I'd have thought you'd know the difference.

Oh give it a rest, dude. You're not impressing anybody.

how odd

[wizardforce]

The developers have been removing applications that are irrelevant on a netbook.

and

While new ones have been added to provide better netbook functionalities:

gbrainy added (gbrainy is a brain teaser game)

Openoffice is "irrelevant" on a netbook but a game most /.ers have probably never even heard of made the cut? Something is wrong here.

Re:how odd

[FlyingBishop]

Just for the hell of it, I opened up a terminal and typed `sudo apt-get install gbrainy.`

If the program represented a significant change in space, it would have asked me if I wanted to.

Need to get 363kB of archives.

There are single fonts in OpenOffice that take up more space than that. Ubuntu installs it for me without even checking to see if it's okay, because installing it takes less time.

I do think it would be a good idea to include Abiword, but I really don't care about OpenOffice. Both MS Office and OpenOffice need to die. They're huge resource hogs, and most of their resources are devoted to finding new ways to make my documents display differently every time someone opens them.

Re:how odd

[wizardforce]

The point is that they're cutting out a lot of *useful* functionality and using some of the freed space to put apps on the thing that the vast majority of people in all likliness don't know about nor actually use. Besides, I'm pretty sure you could replace Openoffice with smaller alternatives and either gut Gnome or use Xfce and save 350 mb.

Re:how odd

[John Hasler]

> Besides, I'm pretty sure you could replace Openoffice with smaller
> alternatives and either gut Gnome or use Xfce and save 350 mb.

So do so. This is the _default_ configuration. You can easily remove and install whatever you wish.

Re:how odd

[PNutts]

Openoffice is "irrelevant" on a netbook but a game most /.ers have probably never even heard of made the cut? Something is wrong here.

I suppose you're also going to tell me you've never heard of Purble Place?

Re:how odd

[wizardforce]

If that is the case, then they may as well just use xubuntu and scrape off nearly everything.

Re:how odd

[PopeRatzo]

You can easily remove and install whatever you wish.

That's a wonderful sentence. Music to my ears.

May it always be so.

Re:how odd

[biryokumaru]

And just for the hell of it, I ran it.

Worst. Puzzles. Ever.

Here's an example:

Given the following words, what word has the closest relationship to "vinegar:" sugar / sweet ?

Answer: sour (As context here, previous questions provided words as options for answers)

Here's another:

6 hours ago it was as long after 4 as it was before 10 on the same day. What time is it now?

Here's a hint: It's 4 (um, ya.)

Maybe I can't read. Maybe I can't do math. For me, though, the word sour is neither the word sweet nor sugar, and 6 hours after 7 is 1.

Re:how odd

[Locutus]

too bad the idea of parts/components died off in the 90s or else they could have just went with a lighter weight word process part and left it to the user to install a more feather rich part or not.

LoB

Re:how odd

[wizardforce]

That's funny because on my system, gbrainy along with its dependencies took up 22.4 mb of space. This includes mono and a few gnome libraries among other things. The game package its self is 363kb but it would be incredibly misleading to say that the entire shebang was only 363 kb. That irrelevant game along with its dependencies is almost as large as Abiword.

Re:how odd

[Knuckles]

I believe Tomboy and F-spot were installed by default in previous UNE releases, so if you install gbrainy it does not pull in mono, it's already there.

Re:how odd

[cerberusss]

You can easily remove and install whatever you wish.

That's a wonderful sentence. Music to my ears.

May it always be so.

I'm not sure why it's important to you. Useful, yes, sure.

Netbooks, IMHO, are more for stuff like the mentioned Google Docs, Flickr for your photos, Quicken Online for your administration, and for spare time, Facebook or your average European social site.

And of course Twitter.

(didn't see that one coming, did you?)

Re:how odd

[sensei moreh]

Besides, I'm pretty sure you could replace Openoffice with smaller alternatives and either gut Gnome or use Xfce and save 350 mb.

Gutting GNOME can be a real pain, especially when the package manager insists on restoring dependencies you deliberately broke. Last I used it, XFCE was lighter on resources than GNOME when running, but required almost as much space on my hard drive. These days I'm pretty happy using a modified LXDE when I want a lightweight desktop (roxterm replaces lxterminal; geany replaces leafpad). I have to give up automounting of hot-plugged USB drives, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Re:how odd

[wizardforce]

But they removed Tomboy... there's no reason to have Mono anymore except to have this game...

Re:how odd

[Knuckles]

Yeah, you are correct that they removed Tomboy, I hadn't realized this yet at the time of writing. Though I'm not sure that this means that Gbrainy is the only app that depends on Mono because as far as I am aware F-spot is still in the UNE default install.

Anyway, it's all very, very weird and IMO misguided. Ignoring the mono disagreements for the purposes of this argument, Tomboy is a great little note taking app that together with its Ubuntu One syncing is a great tool for netbooks. And having Google Docs as default IMO clashes with the Ubuntu promise that Ubuntu core applications will always be FOSS.

Re:how odd

[PopeRatzo]

I'm not sure why it's important to you. Useful, yes, sure.

It's important to me because the freedom we have to install a wide variety of software on our devices, including programs of our own making is endangered by a trend toward "locked-in" devices, that only run software or content available from one source.

I don't want to rely on one particular "application store" to suit my particular needs.

Re:how odd

[PopeRatzo]

And of course Twitter.

It's important to be tolerant of other peoples' tastes in technology.

Live and let live, that's my motto.

Re:how odd

[cerberusss]

I was horsing you around on the Twitter issue because you love it so much, but I agree on the "one application store" issue.

Apple for example has their user base all locked into this walled garden. For the craziest reasons, they throw developers out.

I am totally fine with application stores. That said, the netbook thing can become a success if and only if it's easy to add new application stores, IMHO. Not sure if Google has that in mind.

why?

[dirtyhippie]

Openoffice takes about 350MB of space, so it is a significant proportion of an ubuntu install, but c'mon. Despite the name "netbook", these devices in my experience spend a significant amount of time offline. This is bizarre choice - more discussion is here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1399012

Re:why?

[ChunderDownunder]

I think you answered your own question in the first sentence - "350MB of space". Though Ubuntu's netbook page mentions CD installation, many netbook class devices won't include one. Thus having a small footprint in order to have a functional desktop via netinstall is perhaps the goal.

That said, ChromeOS will obviously also use Google Docs so familiarity is also a factor. Ubuntu would be aiming for 'gPad' class devices too. i.e. power-users will buy a ChromeOS tablet but wipe the default install so they can have debiany goodness underneath. I expect the RAM and storage for such devices to be substantially lower that of your typical netbook - at least the low cost versions.

In any case, perhaps unlike ChromeOS, OO.org is only a 'sudo apt-get install' away...

Re:why?

[gigabites2]

Interestingly enough, gbrainy is dependent on the mono runtime and all its libraries which seem to take up ~40MB in the alpha. It's not quite 350MB, but it isn't exactly slim either. Granted, fspot and tomboy depend on mono as well. Just something to consider.

Re:why?

[biryokumaru]

Well, they eliminated Tomboy, so Mono's not an issue anymore... wait a second...

Re:why?

[at_slashdot]

Can't you use Google Docs offline with Gears?

Re:why?

[dirtyhippie]

350MB of space, while perhaps 15% of a default ubuntu install, really isn't that much altogether. And as someone who's installed UNR a number of times, it is easy to convert an iso to a bootable USB stick using netbootin, etc.

Perhaps it would make sense to pare the installation down to a oo-minimal package or something, but in my mind ubuntu just lost a big advantage over ChromeOS.

Re:why?

[dirtyhippie]

I've tried it. The answer is - "usually" - if and only if you don't do anything fancy. I haven't taken the time to see how much google goop is in my cache when running offline, but its significant.

Re:why?

[PCM2]

Also, I believe all new Eee PC models come with access to Asus WebStorage, a file/sync storage system, so one of the advantages of Google Docs is negated. You can use your local drive to store OpenOffice and keep your documents in (ahem) "the cloud." I guess the Asus WebStorage driver is not free software, but it is available on Ubuntu 9.10.

Re:why?

[Knuckles]

Ubuntu 9.10 and later come with UbuntuOne which does more or less the same thing: https://one.ubuntu.com/
So yeah, I agree that this negates at least one of the GD advantages.

no internet? no google account?

[Anonymous Coward]

what a smart move! now when i don't have access to the internet i'm screwed! and if i refuse to accept googles bullshit, and distrust them to fuck, i can't access my documents?

why not install Abiword one of the best light weight word processors out there? it opens OpenDocument format documents fine, and MS Word format etc.

also, according to the article, Tomboy is being dropped! that's a great note taking application, and it's a lot faster to load up than a word processor, and you don't have to worry about where to save the notes (unlike if you gEdit).

for the source of the story: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications

Re:no internet? no google account?

[RalphSleigh]

I would guess Tomboy is being pulled because it requires mono. I recall there was a big argument when it was first included in the default Gnome desktop because of all the extra space required by the mono runtime just for some virtual post-it notes. So this move probably saves lots of space behind the scenes.

Re:no internet? no google account?

[X0563511]

Yet gbrainy (which supposedly requires mono) was added.

Hmm.

Re:no internet? no google account?

[biryokumaru]

Good thing they didn't add anything else that required Mono, like gbrainy or something.

Re:no internet? no google account?

[Knuckles]

just for some virtual post-it notes.

Except that Tomboy is more like a desktop wiki, and it's great at that. Also, Tomboy syncs with Ubuntu One, which is a great thing to have especially on a netbook. Take notes on the road and have them sync automatically to your home machine via the cloud. Pulling it is a weird idea. I still love Ubuntu, but some devs do make weird decisions at times.

Re:What about Bing!?

[eparker05]

Maybe they should be paying for Google apps enterprise: it's only $50 per year per user.

Stupid!!

[linuxgurugamer]

The net isn't everywhere. Sometimes people use the computer/netbook in places where there is no network access. So what is going to happen in these cases? It sounds like to me that those people will be SOL, unless they were savvy enough to have installed OpenOffice themselves.

I use Ubuntu professionally, as well as CentOS & Fedora. By constantly changing the application mix they will discourage people from using Ubuntu because of future incompatibilities.

Re:Stupid!!

[drinkypoo]

The net isn't everywhere. Sometimes people use the computer/netbook in places where there is no network access. So what is going to happen in these cases?

Users who need this functionality can, as you yourself suggest, install something else. I hear they're dropping the Gimp, too. What will users who need that functionality do? Oh noes! Maybe they can install it from the easy peasy add/remove programs tool.

Re:Stupid!!

[stickystyle]

Or they will just use google docs in offline mode, like people have been doing for quite some time now...

Re:Stupid!!

[keeperofdakeys]

The situation with the gimp was different. They identified the fact that not everyone needs a tool shed, so could just use a toolbox. With this issue, a user of the OS would be reasonably confident that they have a word processor by default, which they wouldn't if they did not have a connection to the internet. Although I don't know of a total replacement for all of open office, abiword is an example of a possible light weight word processor.

Re:Stupid!!

[drinkypoo]

With this issue, a user of the OS would be reasonably confident that they have a word processor by default, which they wouldn't if they did not have a connection to the internet.

Another problem with your comment is the fact that you can still install openoffice. And an even more relevant one: Ubuntu doesn't remove your installed applications on an upgrade. If you installed Karmic UNR and you've got OO.o, an upgrade to Lucid isn't going to remove it.

Re:Stupid!!

[Vexorian]

That's an excessively lame excuse. Ubuntu is continously losing functionality and replacing it with proprietary solutions just for disk space sake. You claim that it is no problem to have to install fundamental applications everybody uses manually, but you are missing something:
* What about the live cd/usb? In case of emergencies I would be able to use my flash disk/CD to boot into a version of ubuntu that has the tools I needed for my work (ie: you are using someone else's computer, your hd broke and no time to fix, etc). But without openoffice or the gimp I am now screwed.
* Besides of taking precious time from me and making it feel as cheap as windows, there is the little problem that it is not obvious to new users that these useful apps ever exist. New users would just assume UNR forcefully needs web connection to use that limited office service that google docs is...

Re:Stupid!!

[keeperofdakeys]

For most people, a word processor is a fundamental part of the operating system. Some people also do not have access to the internet. This means that there WILL be some people who want to use a word processor before they are able to access the internet, which means they won't have a change to download open office or be able to use google docs. This is why an off-line, light weight alternative should be included.

Re:Stupid!!

[lucian1900]

No proprietary software has been added except drivers and such. Mono may be uncertain from a patent POV, but it's still open source.

Re:Stupid!!

[Knuckles]

* What about the live cd/usb?

What about it? You can install apps in the Live CD, and IIRC if you have an USB stick attached you can even do so persistently.

Re:Stupid!!

[drinkypoo]

Ubuntu is continously losing functionality and replacing it with proprietary solutions just for disk space sake.

I've only got about 400MB out of 4GB free, so that care is welcome.

You claim that it is no problem to have to install fundamental applications everybody uses manually,

No, I claim is is no problem to manually install the applications that you want.

What about the live cd/usb?

Netbooks don't have CDROM drives. That's a distinguishing feature. You can install programs persistently to the USB.

Besides of taking precious time from me and making it feel as cheap as windows,

This statement is a troll until you provide some more support. Then it's just flamebait.

there is the little problem that it is not obvious to new users that these useful apps ever exist.

I agree that it might be useful to offer the user the option to install this kind of stuff at OS install time, if that's what you're saying.

New users would just assume UNR forcefully needs web connection to use that limited office service that google docs is...

I'm pretty sure that someone installing UNR is likely to understand the distinction. The advertising for UNR makes it clear that you can install other apps.

Re:Stupid!!

[selven]

That's an excessively lame excuse. Ubuntu is continously losing functionality and replacing it with proprietary solutions just for disk space sake.

Of course. They have to keep adding new features and improving the operating system while still keeping it inside a single 700MB CD.

Re:Stupid!!

[jnik]

Directing people to a third-party service which doesn't provide source counts as a "proprietary solution" to me. I understand more and more where Debian's apparent fanaticism about "freedom" comes from, slippery slope and all that.

Re:Stupid!!

[colinrichardday]

How many people have 4 gb hard drives? I bought a computer in 1998 with a 4 gb hard drive, but today's netbooks have 160 gb hard drives.

Re:Stupid!!

[Risen888]

"Google Docs Replaces OpenOffice in Ubuntu Netbook Edition." The whole discussion is about proprietary software replacing a free solution.

Re:Stupid!!

[drinkypoo]

How many people have 4 gb hard drives?

The whole first generation of netbooks had 2 or 4GB flash drives. Expanding the disk on an EEE 701 SD is a PITA. But it has a 900 MHz Celeron which in some situations performs better than a 1.6GHz Atom. It's also got the form factor I want for travel — right now I'm typing at a table in the lounge area of the Hotel Pizote Lodge in Puerto Viejo, Limon, Costa Rica. I've got 4GB of SSD and would prefer not to waste it, so I removed OO.o from Jolicloud and installed Abiword and Gnumeric.

I am sure

[Stumbles]

glad I am not a Ubuntu addict.

Re:I am sure

[MichaelSmith]

Why?

What is a netbook?

[sakdoctor]

I don't even know what a netbook is now. At the start they were defined by their tiny form-factors, low-ish power-consumption.
The revolutionary part was the LOW price. Sony VAIOs of similar size had been around for absolutely ages, but those were just shit, overpriced laptops.

Then microsoft moved in and netbook grew in size and power. I think my early eeepc IS a netbook, and despite the 600px screen height, I run stock Ubuntu rather than a netbook specific edition.
Running open office has never been a problem, so I don't see the point in getting all cloud dependent for nothing.

Re:What is a netbook?

[Darkness404]

Exactly, the three things that make a good netbook are

A) The ability to do -real- tasks without a dumbed down OS
B) -cheap- price
C) Size

Price is paramount. When I can buy a "real" laptop for $300 with a 15 inch screen and a 12 inch netbook costs $500 and is far underpowered, something isn't right. I have a feeling that "netbooks" are now just going to be the new term for ultra-portables which have been around for ages but have historically had too low of power and too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

Re:What is a netbook?

[drinkypoo]

My Earlier EEE 701SD has only 480 lines, so I run UNR in the form of Jolicloud. If it were easier to find alt and tab, I would just run ordinary Ubuntu. When I get home again, I'm going to install vanilla UNR so I can run a more recent release and hopefully fix some problems. Jolicloud is a lagger. My LT3103u has normal Karmic, in fact I run with Compiz and Avant Window Navigator. But it also has a 720p display, and it's basically a cheap subnotebook. It came at a netbook price, though...

Re:What is a netbook?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Price is paramount. When I can buy a "real" laptop for $300 with a 15 inch screen and a 12 inch netbook costs $500 and is far underpowered, something isn't right. I have a feeling that "netbooks" are now just going to be the new term for ultra-portables which have been around for ages but have historically had too low of power and too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

And the weight of that "real" laptop is...? And the battery life? Plus can you actually hold it on your lap without frying your... legs?

When it comes to portable devices, smaller and lighter costs more because the components cost more. It is much simpler and cheaper to make a 10 pound, 2-inch thick laptop than a 5 pound, 1-inch laptop.

Re:What is a netbook?

[PopeRatzo]

I don't even know what a netbook is now.

Same thing it was at the beginning: A EEE or a MSI Wind. Maybe a Dell Mini. Cheap, small and useful.

I've got the newest EEE with SSD and I use the hell out of it. When I travel, it's all I need and fits in the front pocket of my backpack. Since there's WiFi just about everywhere I go, it fits my needs exactly. I started out with the hard drive model, but after a year gave it to my daughter and bought the SSD model. Now she uses the hell out of it for school. It doesn't run Mathematica or Maple, but for those she waits until she gets home.

I figure that by the time I'm ready to replace mine, it'll be an Android or ChromeOS machine with more SSD storage, but if it runs some other flavor of Linux, I won't mind.

But I promise this: It won't be any machine that only runs apps from one store, and it won't cost more than $400.

Re:What is a netbook?

[PopeRatzo]

a 12 inch netbook costs $500

A "12 inch" netbook? I think if it's that big it's not really a netbook.

I'll make up a rule: The biggest screen a netbook can have is 10" maybe 10.1".

too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

I bet the computer industry loves you. "Say, this netbook is not expensive enough for me to bother with!"

Re:What is a netbook?

[The Slashdot 8Ball]

It doesn't run Mathematica or Maple, but for those she waits until she gets home.

I run Maple 13 on my EEE 1000 (SSD). It struggles if you want to rotate 3D plots but apart from that it works fine.

I opted for the `linux' edition of the netbook but it shipped with some bastardised version of Xandros. Being new to linux I threw on the netbook remix of ubuntu 9.10 and couldn't be happier.

Re:What is a netbook?

[westlake]

I don't even know what a netbook is now. At the start they were defined by their tiny form-factors, low-ish power-consumption. The revolutionary part was the LOW price. Then microsoft moved in and netbook grew in size and power

The "tiny form factor" becomes a deal breaker as you grow older.

The keyboard awkward and uncomfortable to use. The display hard to read. It's surely no coincidence that Walmart's in-store selection of netbooks has been reduced to a single Nickelodeon branded laptop for kids.

The netbook strikes me as being a second or third purchase - and not the first choice for the low income buyer that the geek fondly believes. That's the second shoe you hear dropping at Walmart.

The low-end netbook competes for attention and sales with a dozen other high-tech gadgets at the same price point - and it just might be the product that gives the retailer most grief.

Re:What is a netbook?

[QuoteMstr]

Of the laptops I've had, the one with the best form factor was the 12.1" iBook. Its keyboard was just big enough for my hands, and it fit into most spaces designed for letter-sized notebooks and papers. The screen's size was good enough for me. I got a lot of work done on that machine.

My current 13" MacBook is cumbersome by comparison: it's too long, and the extra keyboard and screen area doesn't do anything for me. It's still a good machine, but not as elegantly portable as my old iBook (RIP --- it died of an LCD fracture in a car accident.)

Re:What is a netbook?

[panaceaa]

What does size have to do with whether something's a netbook? In my mind, a netbook is something geared towards using Internet applications (such as Gmail, Facebook, Amazon, Google Docs, etc), without all the processor, hard disk and operating system requirements for running local applications.

At least, that's what the "net" part of "netbook" leads me to believe.

Re:What is a netbook?

[westlake]

You can pretty much get three netbooks for the price of one better-than-decent desktop ($200 vs $600). This is also why I generally agree with the positive predictions for Linux and ARM on netbooks; the netbook not running windows doesn't really matter if you've already got access to a windows machine, and once you've passed that hurdle the better battery life and lower price become all the more attractive.

The ARM netbook remains a phantom. The price tag pure guesswork.

At 3:30 ET [Feb 6] Amazon.com has the Win 7 SE Acer AOD250-1695 at $257. If the ARM was to successfully compete against Windows it needed to be in stores this past Christmas.

Re:What is a netbook?

[AthanasiusKircher]

The "tiny form factor" becomes a deal breaker as you grow older.

Depends. What's part of your body starts to go -- your eyes or your back? If the latter, perhaps carrying around 2 lbs. instead of 5-7 lbs. all the time in your bag might be something to look into.

The keyboard awkward and uncomfortable to use.

I agree that used to be the case. I bought an expensive ultraportable a few years back which had an 80% keyboard that was annoying, but usable. Smaller keyboards just hurt my hands. Nowadays, netbooks often have a keyboard that is 90% full-size or larger... not annoying at all. I haven't measured, but they feel like the keyboard on the laptop I had in the mid to late 90s, which was a rather popular model.

The display hard to read.

Why? If you have eyesight problems and can't focus on small things, I agree that this device is not for you. If you're complaining that the screens are dark or not sharp enough or something -- well, look at the netbooks today. Even the cheap ones blow the crap out of the screen on my laptop from 5 years ago that cost 6 times as much.

The netbook strikes me as being a second or third purchase - and not the first choice for the low income buyer that the geek fondly believes.

That's probably true if you're talking about person who is buying both a business computer and a personal one. If, as for most people, their primary business computer is provided by their employer, why the heck wouldn't they buy a netbook for personal use? Most people use their personal computers to do non-processor-intensive tasks that netbooks are designed for, like email, chat, social networking, blogging, online purchases, looking things up, etc.

The iPhone (or similar device) is a good replacement as well, but it suffers from the problems you mention (small display, small keyboard, "tiny form factor") to a MUCH greater degree. And yet lots of people are buying them. For someone who wants the convenience of a small device, but needs to do a little more typing, surfing, etc. so the iPhone is uncomfortable or annoying, why wouldn't they use a netbook?

The low-end netbook competes for attention and sales with a dozen other high-tech gadgets at the same price point

Exactly, like the iPhone. Maybe you're right that people will continue to flock toward iPhones but won't embrace netbooks. But if so, it's not because of the reasons you cite, because the iPhone and similar gadgets in that price category suffer from the same criticisms you mention, except to a greater degree.

Re:What is a netbook?

[Petrushka]

As I see it, the device came before the name; the name is just something someone made up and it happened to catch. When the first Asus EEEs came out, there was no marketingese name for mini-laptops, but the selling point was the size. Even then, when they came with crappy 4 GB drives and 7 inch screens, they still had such an enormous advantage over laptops in portability that they sold like hotcakes. I saw them in a brick-and-mortar shop before hearing about them, and bought one that day -- precisely because of size.

No one cared about net applications then, and only Google -- and Ubuntu, it seems -- cares about that now. As a customer I certainly don't. It was never about net access; it was always size and weight. Then some marketers decided that this new category of laptop needed a name, and they came up with most inappropriate one possible: "netbook". As a result, now marketers want to make "net"books instead of mini-laptops, and the utility of the product is dropping enormously as a result.

(They're ignoring size for good reason, mind. Smaller sizes don't cost extra, after all.)

Personally, I never cared about net access. The reason I've gone through 2 mini-laptops now and am going to be buying a third soon was SIZE, SIZE, SIZE. I can't emphasise that enough. That is the only selling point. Net applications are a gigantic disadvantage if I'm on the go.

</rant>

Re:What is a netbook?

[PopeRatzo]

As I see it, the device came before the name; the name is just something someone made up and it happened to catch.

You make a lot of good points, Petrushka.

For me, too, when it comes to computing hardware for traveling, size is the main issue.

It's nice to have net access too, and thanks to the ubiquitous WiFi in most urban areas, I'm covered, even without expensive 3G.

Re:What is a netbook?

[Darkness404]

Selling point is (and was). Price, price, price.

Re:What is a netbook?

[LordVader717]

I'd say the defining feature was originally the SSD (They were among the first) and the small form. People realized that conventional laptops were totally clumsy designs when all they used them for was 90% web browsing.
I don't think web applications were ever an important aspect. Every device shipped since Asus's eeepc has had more than enough power to run sophisticated office suites, photo processing and almost any other 2D application. I think it's precisely because they run all these other "necessities" that that they're so popular.
Then on the other hand you have some manufacturers that try to convince everyone that *real* laptops come with Blu-ray burners, 500 gigs of hard drive space and have a 20 inch screen with an insane resolution.

The thing I like most about my Netbook...

[longhunt]

....is that it's easy to take on the subway. I get about half of my writing done underground where there is no wireless.

But at least OpenOffice is easy to download if you need it.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook...

[MichaelSmith]

Yeah at the moment I take the tram to work. Its 40 minutes each way. I get a lot of coding done on my eeepc. It is hard to find room for a bigger laptop on public transport.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook...

[ChunderDownunder]

You must have a kindred spirit on the 903 smartbus. There's a guy who's constantly coding Lisp on his device. Me, I'm stuck in Java IDE land which would be painful on such a small device, particularly sans mouse.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook...

[MichaelSmith]

I coded in java on the tram for a couple of months. Then I got into writing openmoko applications in C with the Enlightenment toolkit. I work with a terminal and nedit. On a bigger screen I can keep them both visibible with overlap. On the 701 I keep both maximised and tab between them. Its not ideal but it is worth the small form factor.

Google Docs Offline

[tepples]

Or, more accurately: what do I do if I DON'T have internet access?

That's what Gears and HTML5 offline support are for. And it's supposed to be seamless.

Normal ubuntu

[MichaelSmith]

I run ubuntu on my eeepc 701. It works fine. I have considered uninstalling open office and installing more lightweight office tools. I will do that if I run out of space (again).

Re:Normal ubuntu

[Vexorian]

UNR actually targets even heavier "netbooks". An Atom processor is on the requirements list and also the 1024x600 resolution. In those machines there is definitely no issues with ooo in my experience. In fact I didn't really have much issues on my old 701 either.

Honestly, I think it is just that the current ubuntu heads would just keep using disk space as an excuse to replace perfectly working apps with proprietary ones. I think we need a new flag distro...

Re:Normal ubuntu

[apoc.famine]

Just drop in an SD card and be done with it. I've got an 8gb SD card in it for just that purpose. I partitioned it to hold /tmp /opt /var /home and swap to save lots of read/write cycles on the SSD. So far, it works pretty damn well. /opt and /var usually take up several hundred mb each, unless you're really good about keeping them cleaned out.

Re:Normal ubuntu

[MichaelSmith]

Just drop in an SD card and be done with it.

Yes, same here. But I don't put unix type directories on it. Just my user files and a JDK. 4G is enough for ubuntu.

Answer: Google docs has offline access

[Potor]

Hey AC, you know that Google Docs added offline access, right, about two years ago?

Re:Answer: Google docs has offline access

[batkiwi]

Have you tested it?

-can't create a new document
-can't get to tabs on spreadsheets that you haven't visited while online
-can't (obviously) import a document

It's functional in an "I know i need this ONE document to edit while on the train home" type of way, but not in a "replaces office" way.

Re:can i haz internets?

[biryokumaru]

Well, I have a 4 gig netbook and thought I would be able to save a lot of room by eliminating OpenOffice and doing everything with Google Docs. That lasted about a week.

If I can afford it on my 4 gig netbook, they have oodles of space on a 20 gig one.

Does it work while offline?

[kandresen]

I am skeptic about online applications, unless of course the application can be cached or the Google doc server application in fact is running on the netbook.
I am however totally agreeing that Open Office is way to heavy for a Netbook. I do however myself usually use Abi-word and Gnumerics when finding OO too heavy.
How does Google Docs compare to Abi-word?

Who cares?

[NPerez]

Are defaults really that important? I'd assume that, at least for now, anyone using Linux (even on a netbook) is probably savvy enough to install whatever Office apps they personally prefer. I think installing stuff in Ubuntu is even easier than on Windows - you just check it off & seconds later you have it.

Re:Who cares?

[CSMatt]

Yes, but people have to both know that it is there at all and how to install new software in Ubuntu.

Free software may have a decent usage share overall on netbooks, but most people come from Windows and nonfree software land. Probably the only words in non-Windows marketing and demonstration that they will understand are "Linux" and "Firefox," and even then the former would instill the idea of a "hacker" OS. Overcoming this barrier is hard enough. By the time you get them to buy the thing, one of the first questions they will ask is "Where is Microsoft Office?" If you mention using Google Docs instead, the inevitable "Can't I just use that on Windows instead?" comes up.

Re:Who cares?

[sensei moreh]

Are defaults really that important?

Not for anybody participating in this particular discussion. However, from what I've seen in some of the netbook forums, there are people out there who are using Linux on their netbooks only because that's what came on the SSD. The percentage of those folks savvy enough to install something like AbiWord is probably not all that high.

Re:Who cares?

[bjourne]

Ubuntu is a free software OS. Google Docs is not free software. That the developers are replacing a free alternative with a proprietary one is disconcerting.

kickback?

[pz]

What sort of kickback did the Ubuntu folk get from Google for this? On the face of it, it's a bad decision from the user experience standpoint, as many others have pointed out, because of the potential lack of a network connection. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that there must be a greater good, at least from the Ubtuntu viewpoint, to screwing their users.

Bah. Anything worth writing can be written with vi

[NotQuiteReal]

Or any other text editor of your choice.

The formatting can be done later.

Re:Bah. Anything worth writing can be written with

[ducomputergeek]

Emacs finally got a decent text editor *ducks and runs*

Just goes to show

[dawilcox]

This just goes to show how monopolistic practices kill innovation and industry.

Oh wait! This is Google Docs on Ubuntu and not Microsoft Office on Windows?

This just goes to show how the open source community can embrace and package quality products with their software.

LaTex

[CranberryKing]

run it off the thumb drive.

Re:LaTex

[CSMatt]

Fine for you, but not everyone is willing or even able to deal with LaTeX's learning curve compared to WYSIWYG applications.

Re:LaTex

[colinrichardday]

But without Open Office, how do you generate the ounce sign (unicode x2125)?

Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway?

[Animats]

Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway?

• Why is "soffice.exe" 7MB in size? It's just the launcher. The work is done in "sdraw.exe", "swriter.exe", etc.
• Why is there also "soffice.bin", another 7MB?
• Does OpenOffice have to have its very own full Python installation? It's only used for scripting OpenOffice from your own applications; OpenOffice itself doesn't need it.
• Is the whole Java/UNO system, for scripting OpenOffice from Java, really used much?
• OpenOffice has about 100 DLLs, doing who knows what. How many of those are really used?
• In fact, most users don't need any of the Java stuff. It's mainly for the OpenOffice database engine, and you're probably not running a relational DBMS on your netbook.

OpenOffice could probably be brought down below 100MB for netbooks without much work.

Re:Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway?

[techno-vampire]

* Why is "soffice.exe" 7MB in size? It's just the launcher. The work is done in "sdraw.exe", "swriter.exe", etc.

You do know, don't you, that those files are Windows specific? We're talking about Linux here.

Re:Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway?

[apoc.famine]

Fonts and graphics. And as you mentioned, Java.

Inconsistency: Yahoo! search, but Google Docs

[feranick]

If I am not mistaken, Ubuntu 10.04 will drop Google as the default search engine for Firefox in favor of Yahoo! search. Now it's funny they will be using Google docs, as I am sure it will create a little bit of inconsistency...

What's next, Bing maps?

Re:Inconsistency: Yahoo! search, but Google Docs

[Hadlock]

Doesn't matter; google chrome (which searches google by default) is a far superior browser UI-wise for the 600 pixel high netbook market segment. The Firefox that ships with UNR 9.10 is basically stock Firefox, which is a huge screen real estate hog. Chrome on the other hand uses about half the real estate FF does by getting rid of the file/edit/view/history bar. 20 pixels counts for a lot when you only have 600 to work with! (576 if you're a HP Mini 110 user like me)

So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[Hurricane78]

Because as far as I know, Google Docs is not only closed-source and proprietary. It’s one step worse: It’s not even controlled by you, as it’s on another computer.

No, it being a netbook is not making it OK, that it is only accessible when you have reception. “Netbook” is just a (marketing) name. It’s still just a small computer. It still has to be able to perform normal things without an Internet connection.

This, to me, is one step worse, than replacing OOo by MS Office. At least with MS Office, your private data won’t be sold of to anyone, and you can still cut the connection.
Were they drunk? Was someone payed?

To me, this takes Ubuntu NE out of the equation for all possible uses.

root@livecd ~ # emerge world

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[radtea]

To me, this takes Ubuntu NE out of the equation for all possible uses.

Likewise. I use my netbook offline all the time, and have spotty connectivity most of the day. This would make Ubuntu useless to me out of the box, and it reflects a very strange set of priorities: closed source proprietary remote apps vs open source free local ones is about the worst choice imaginable for a linux distro.

I used to use Abiword on my netbook, an d found it annoyingly sluggish saving largish documents. Replaced it with OOo and have been very happy.

The big thing for me about a netbook is long battery life (> 6 hours) and light weight ( 1.5g). Compared to my laptop it's a feather. Network connectivity is the third priority, and not nearly important enough to give up freedom, privacy and control for.

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[radtea]

1.5 kg, obviously.

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[xtracto]

Yup,

Being plenty of other options aside of OO.o they had to go with the most propertary one.

Geez, it would have better for them to use a Microsoft Office version with Wine (at least, you control the program and your data).

Of course because Google is teh goodzor and Microsoft is teh Evilz, the typical anti-propertary slashdotters are getting warm feelings

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[forebees]

"The big thing for me about a netbook is long battery life (> 6 hours) and light weight ( 1.5g). "

1.5 grams?

Holy Crap...can you post your netbook to me please?

I'll even send you the postage!

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[yelvington]

Google Docs works offline, and has for more than two years. If you have evidence that Google is selling private Google Docs data, I suggest you provide it.

If you don't want to use Google Docs, both abiword and OO are one-click installs. Not a problem.

UNR is clearly being prepped for the coming sub-$200 ultralight, driveless, ARM-powered real netbooks, not the 2-gig, dual-core laptops that masquerade as netbooks now. For those, you're better off with a full Ubuntu install.

Re:So it's now a closed-source distribution?

[Eli Gottlieb]

Do you really think everyone has the time to waste sitting and waiting for Gentoo to compile packages on a netbook?

Google docs is severely limited

[feranick]

I actually use my netbook to give presentations, which I prepare obviously with my regular desktop. Now, I can only imagine the problems and issues that I would have in using Google docs. The files are limited in size and my presentations usually don't fit within the actual limits imposed by Google. The same for text documents, as it is not uncommon for me to receive large (>10MB) word files. What should I do then?

The only consolation is that (hopefully) OpenOffice is only an "apt-get install" away.

Re:Google docs is severely limited

[jvin248]

I bought my netbook for the main use of giving presentations. I needed a model with vga output for the projector. I need the power of OO Impress, which runs great on my HP 110c (on UNR 9.10). .. my prior lug-about that was retired this past fall (still works, but heavier) ... HP laptop from 1999, Pentium 3 @ 550Mhz, 256MB ram, 6GB HDD that runs Xubuntu 8.04 and Open Office 2.4 just fine.

Re:Baby Bath Water

[Frosty Piss]

I'm guessing the Ubuntu powers that be have good 24/7 net connectivity, but forget that many people in the world only connect to the net sporadically

We're talking about the Ubuntu NET book Edition...

Netbook = spying?

[cstec]

Are netbook users really second class citizens with no right to privacy for their work?

I'd rather use notepad than let Google access my private data!

Bradley was spot-on...

[Qubit]

What the everlasting f*ck, guys?

Here, let me go dig up the Ubuntu motto or whatever you're calling it now.

The Ubuntu promise

Ubuntu will always be free of charge, along with its regular enterprise releases and security updates...Ubuntu core applications are all free and open source. We want you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on.

So they took a Free Software application out and replace it with a non-Free application from Google. What a great idea!

Although an office suite isn't necessary for one to run Ubuntu, being able to create and consume office documents is admittedly a very common task. Making UNR able to interoperate "right out of the box" seems like a very high priority.

Bradley Kuhn was spot-on when he recently said "It seems clear that one of Canonical's top goals is to convince every Ubuntu user to rely regularly on new proprietary software and services". Bradley's solution to the problem? Go back to Debian.

My experience with Ubuntu has been, on the whole, a rather pleasant one, so I wish that Ubuntu would find a better solution to this problem. OOo might take up a certain amount of space on netbooks, sure, so perhaps they should install a stripped-down package that doesn't install extra fonts until you need them. Or maybe just prompt the user during the install, letting them know how much space OOo will take up?

I've been willing to deal with non-free drivers and binary blobs in the past, as that has sometimes been the only way to get key parts of my system up and running. But when the only limitation to using a completely Free program is a few hundred MB of disk space, in nearly all cases one could (and should) just get a little more disk.

Software Freedom is worth it!

Re:Bradley was spot-on...

[Vexorian]

Darn I was not aware of that statement Bradley made and now that I read it it is so true and it makes me so sad. Just every new ubuntu version comes with a new idiotic change that had no reason to happen, like ooo to google docs. GIMP to f-spot. Etc, etc ,etc. I think it is because the current heads of the project (Mark is just the owner, not the ones controlling them) have complete disregard of the ubuntu manifesto. It was that manifesto what lead me to choose it, but now it is clear that it is not important at all for them. We need a new flag distro.

Re:Bradley was spot-on...

[Larryish]

IMO Canonical really lost it after 8.04

The newer distros are bug-riddled and klunky.

Hopefully 10.04.1 will be an actual step forward, instead of a big steaming pile of feature bloat.

Re:Bradley was spot-on...

[mei_mei_mei]

You're right, but how come no one else mentioned it to this point? First thing I thought if. Googleopen source

So we still have GIMP for doing images

[Palpatine_li]

...oh wait...I still remember someone said that Openoffice should be enough after dropping GIMP.

WARNING - GOOGLE ALERT

[doug20r]

Quoting from their terms of use for Google Docs "Google reserves the right in its sole discretion to decide whether your conduct is inappropriate and whether it complies with these Terms of Service..." "Google may terminate your access for such inappropriate conduct in violation of these Terms of Service at any time ". Google may for any reason terminate your use of this software causing you damage and loss. Be warned that Google have a bad reputation for such behaviour. They are currently threatening China so do you think they give a shit for us little people! Sorry Google I do not accept your right to decide who can use a document editing system on their own netbook - get your soft wares out of their system. Do not allow Google into your computer, you do not want to be in bed with this commercial entity.

Why haven't they done this for desktop versions?

[masmullin]

I really dont want OOo/Evolution/etc as a dependency to Gnome. If I need these packages, I'll apt-get them, dont assume I need these things please!

I hope Ubuntu does an "Ubuntu lean edition" where only the basic packages to get a Gnome environment are default installed.

Re:Baby Bath Water

[Hadlock]

Yeah sadly your "Net" book becomes a "Book" when the fat guy eating a bag of cheetos sits between you and the only open access point you already had a spotty connection to. Or the youth hostel in Colombia (I'm talking to you, Platypus hostel in Bogota!!!) has a shitty wifi router that you have to stand on your toes holding it in one hand at a funny angle while you type with the other, peering over the keyboard.

Wow, complete Slashdot article based on blueprint

[Pecisk]

For those who want to know: Launchpad blueprints are ideas converted in subprojects. For example, there have been thousand blueprints which while have been completed, have never been implemented.

So first - no official announcement in mailing list, no blog post, but a *blueprint* is a basis of the whole fact in this blog (which is full of ads and snags). Impressive.

https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-arm-webservice-for-office

Wow, first of all, it's for ARM UNE (small subvariant of Ubuntu Netbook Edition), implementation is not started yet and motivation is more clear than ad-riddened blog wrote - OO.o is simply slow on ARM. Yes, you can try to use Abiword, but I think it is not tweaked to run ARM too.

Re: Google Docs work offline

[!the!bad!fish!]

The point is that Google Docs will be available offline.

They should use KOffice instead

[ingwa]

This makes no sense. An office suite like OpenOffice.org can't be replaced with an online service. They should put some effort into KOffice instead and then use that. That's what Nokia is doing for their N900 Linux phone and it's the best choice for this situation. I know that many are going to say now that KOffice will bring in many megs of dependencies, but that's not strictly true. There are ways to cut out what you need from Qt and kdelibs, and that is what the developers did on the N900.

Dropped BY DEFAULT

[Tapewolf]

The article - even the summary - quite clearly says that they're dropping it from the default install. If you want it, you install it. Problem solved.
Personally I ended up removing it anyway since it took too much space on the SSD and I almost never used it while travelling...

Re:Dropped BY DEFAULT

[jonhorvath]

I could either way on this issue. It is nice to have a complete Linux installation with all the basic application already installed. On the other hand, we don't want a bloated Linux distro with tons of unwanted apps. With the Ubuntu netbook edition, it might makes sense to remove OpenOffice to make the Linux distro leaner. The Ubuntu software center makes quite easy for an user to install OpenOffice after the install. I don't agree with removing Gimp from the standard Ubuntu desktop edition. A decent graphic editing program is needed by many computer users.

Re:Wow, complete Slashdot article based on bluepri

[moonbender]

Unlike the blueprint you link to, the other one is not explicitly limited to the ARM distribution. It's also far more broad in scope, dealing not just with OpenOffice but with a range of other (useful) apps, as well. OTOH, it contains as one to-do "Add Cheese", which is weird, since I'm fairly sure Cheese is already part of the default install of UNR. So maybe it really does deal with some variant. That would be a relief, because for the x86 distribution removing those apps is kind of... insane... Especially considering that as far as I can tell you need a Google account to use Google docs.

Re:Wow, complete Slashdot article based on bluepri

[Pecisk]

If you could give a link to that other one, it would be great. Otherwise LP Blueprints search doesn't show it.

Re:Wow, complete Slashdot article based on bluepri

[moonbender]

This is the one. It's in TFA, I thought it was in the summary or I would have linked to it in the first place.

Doesn't really matter...

[IANAAC]

There are a lot of us that want to use our netbooks as a complete off-line machine, as well as on-line.

All this means is that Ubuntu won't be the first thought when it comes to replacing the installed OS. Lately there have been a bunch of other distros that have been made to work well on netbooks.

as long as it works offline

[DavoMan]

As long as it works offline, then nothing is lost. However Ubuntu has gone from having awesome default programs to rather questionable ones: Pidgin: Empathy (no features) GIMP: Replaced with some basic program forgot its name OpenOffice: Now replaced with some web app thing Is anyone going to think that Ubuntu is amazing superior if you cant say 'and it comes with a full fledged XYZ for free!'

I was considering switching to the new suse anyway

[Uzik2]

The version of Ubuntu I tried gets high marks for a great install, but low marks for usability. The cd burner doesn't work at all, the archive manager and file system explorer both have horrible bugs and very poor usability design. That they're choosing to put my documents at risk further emphasizes their poor judgment at the leadership level.

Why not Koffice then?

[nurb432]

Its smaller and lighter. Wifi is not around 100% of the time and not everyone can afford an extra 3G ( does ubuntu even support a 3g usb adapter? ).. so often times your shiny net book becomes just a shiny paperweight.

Marketing, not Specification

[bill_mcgonigle]

This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

That's a marketing term, not a product specification (which would be 'slow, small low-power laptop'.

Let's not let the droids confuse us.

I live in Bhumphuk Novere

[dogzdik]

I like the idea of "connectivity" provided it can be maintained in almost all times in almost all places. The last time someone ran a backhoe through a single fiber optic cable, 2/3 of Australia went "out".... It was several days with much rerouting and other shit, before connectivity could be restored. There are many places in the country where there is no broadband or wireless reception. I dunno - I'd rather have the sock on the foot, in the shoe that I wear; rather than the sock on another country, the shoe in another state, and my foot in the other city. Naaaaa keep it all in the one machine and then collaborate if necessary - from there.

Zoho

[mahadiga]

Why not Zoho? Anybody?