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Verizon Blocking 4chan

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the and-nothing-of-value-was-lost dept.

An anonymous reader writes "According to 4chan's owner and administrator 'moot,' Verizon has explicitly blocked all traffic on their network from boards.4chan.org, where all of 4chan's boards are located. Moot explains that only traffic to and from port 80 is being dropped and they were able to confirm that it was intentional. 4chan's downtime for Verizon users has been in effect for at least 72 hours since Saturday, February 7."

37 of 677 comments (clear)

  1. DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by Q-Hack! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Rules #5, #6, and #7

    Verizon, you are doomed. Pissing off 4chan is probably the worst thing you can do on the Internet.

    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    1. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by the+roAm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh yes, Verizon is sooo screwed, one of the largest ISPs in the world might get DDoSed by a hundred retarded people who will actually have the knowhow to DDoS, while thousands of others will wind up downloading trojans that spam 4chan.

      --
      ~The roAm
    2. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by matzahboy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pissing off 4chan is probably the worst thing you can do on the Internet.

      I disagree: http://xkcd.com/591/

    3. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by AndersOSU · · Score: 5, Informative

      for about the 500th time, ISPs are not, and do not want to be common carriers.

      The DMCA safe harbor provision is completely different from common carrier protection and applies regardless of whether the content host monitors their content or not.

    4. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by sys.stdout.write · · Score: 5, Funny

      they'll become liable for any copyright infringement going on their network because they're showing that they are actively monitoring and controlling data, instead of acting as a neutral data routing service

      Some people simply say that they are not a lawyer, rather than feeling the need to prove it dramatically.

    5. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by mrbofus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      is it actually necessary, though, that the be a 'neutral data routing service'? Say I own a restaurant. Let's get fancy, call it a Food Routing Service. If I feel that it's immoral to serve veal, or dogmeat, or endangered animal flesh, or something possibly dangerous like pufferfish, then I can do that. People get to know me as the restaurant with that kind of menu and if someone needs something off my menu, they're welcome to go somewhere else to get it but I just wont serve it.. or is my analogy lacking something? Seems solid to me... There's got to be a hundred-thousand other web pages where a person can get images of -*ahem*, that sort, if it's really that important.

      Your analogy works as long as people have a choice. In some areas, people only have one ISP available to them as a reasonable source of Internet access. If Verizon was someone's only choice, then they can't really go anywhere else. Or, to go along with your analogy, if you owned the only restaurant in town and there were no supermarkets, convenience stores, etc...

    6. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by Trifthen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are bound to get replies that basically amount to "What can Anonymous possibly do to freaking Verizon?!"

      They have no idea what they've done. 4chan isn't your average bastion of internet malcontents. DDOS? Please. Kevin Mitnick could be called a precursor, and we know with the Scientology war, they're more than willing to hack meatspace. If 4chan as a group takes issue with this, everyone down to the CEO of Verizon will be essentially fair game for various levels of harassment. They'll have the address and private phone number of anyone who matters within days, and they, probably more than anyone, know how to abuse such information.

      I really, really don't envy Verizon right now. This of course hinges on whether or not 4chan will actually care, and that's anybody's guess. It's not a good precedent, though.

      --
      Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
    7. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by LoSt180 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Looks like Verizon responded pretty fast via twitter: @Verizon Verizon PolicyBlog Post: 4Chan Not "Blocked" -- Protecting Our Customers & Our Network http://policyblog.verizon.com/BlogPost/697/ProtectingOurCustomersandOurNetwork.aspx

    8. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One has an army of juveniles the other has an army of congressmen. Which one do you think will win?

      It depends on your definition of victory; however in most cases I would bet on juveniles - many are vicious and unrestrained by social norms, while politicians are just greedy and power-hungry.

      To put it differently: who would you prefer to meet in a dark alley in a bad part of town - a group of juveniles or a group of congressmen?

    9. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by mjhacker · · Score: 5, Informative

      He doesn't allow it, people just post it at such a high frequency that it's not possible to delete & ban fast enough.

    10. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by Trifthen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      See, I'm not so sure about that. This is more akin to kicking a nest of fire ants. Generally—but not always—they'll leave you alone if you leave them alone, but deliberately provoking them is hardly recommended behavior.

      4chan is absolutely not a den of terrorists. They're like a microcosm of society, reflecting all the dirty little things we don't like to acknowledge, but exist anyway. It's something most people would not like to confront in any manner, and certainly wouldn't want all those unrelated agendas focused upon them.

      Let's get this straight: there is no unified 4chan. It's just a group of loosely associated contributors. But I guarantee if enough of them feel offended, retaliation will seem like a unified force; that's an illusion. 4chan isn't a terrorist organization. It's not even an organization. But humans trend toward common ground, and threatening that is an "at your own risk" proposition.

      Like I said in my post, it's yet to be determined whether or not a critical mass of 4chan members will care enough about this to take action, but Verizon is playing Russian Roulette regardless of the outcome, or where any of this stand on the issue.

      --
      Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
    11. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you aware of *just* how many posts are on 4chan? The most active board, "random," has over 100,000 posts a day. I think the entire site averages something like 1,000,000. Per DAY. You just can't effectively police something like that with the kind of set up they have. It was never built for that volume of traffic. They'd need to make everyone register, and that'd take away half the appeal of the place.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    12. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by TheTyrannyOfForcedRe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look at what America has become since 9/11.

      When I was a kid it was popular to point to various things in the USSR like the inability to travel freely without "showing your papers" as evidence of totalitarian oppression. Here in 2010 "showing your papers" is as American as apple pie! Fuck, kids can't even bring techie looking projects to school without triggering a terror scare and being in danger of prosecution under insane laws that make it a crime to do anything that some uneducated moron might confuse with a terrorist act.

      They terrorists HAVE ALREADY WON, no doubt about it.

      --
      "Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
    13. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, they are. Demonstrably. They would have long ago forced ISPs to filter if they weren't.

      Please show me the documentation demonstrating that any single ISP, or any group of ISPs, or ISPs in general, have common carrier status.

      The modern ISP marketplace is defined by the very fact that they are NOT common carriers, and thus not subject to regulation under Title II of the Communications Act. This is why we do not have choice in broadband suppliers at the local level.

      Instead, some of the benefits of common carrier status have been conferred upon ISPs via the Communications Decency Act, which made them not liable for 3rd-party communications across their networks. Common-carrier status, however, has not been ascribed.

      The key here is that ISPs get most of the benefits of common carrier status, without any of the drawbacks. They escape the kind of regulation that opens them up to competition in providing data service, and the kind of oversight that would require them to provide decent service... yet they can pick and choose what packets get delivered at what speed (if at all) and at what cost.

      If ISPs had common carrier status, they could not throttle certain users based upon inequitable usage. They could not choose to deprecate certain kinds of data. Data transmission would need to be 100% content-agnostic. I think it makes sense -- but they'd need to shift to a different pricing model, a tiered one based on usage volume, to make it work.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    14. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is that a troll?

      You just learned the difference between throwing out an insult and presenting a well-formulated argument. Being convincing and polite is all about format. tone and attitude.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    15. Re:DOOMED I say... DOOMED! by mysidia · · Score: 5, Informative

      I won't agree "common carrier status" is a valid argument. ISPs don't have common carrier status. But there's another protection that applies to them, that should make the DMCA notice sender think twice, before going any further than sending a notice.

      The DMCA does not apply to ISPs who merely route traffic (and don't host the content on their network, or their equipment)..

      Contrary to popular misconception, the DMCA does not have just ONE safe harbor, it has two separate safe harbor provisions, and each one has different requirements, and applies under different circumstances.

      One of the safe harbor provisions [US Title 17, Chapter 5, Sec 512, (c)] pertains to content providers, web hosters, etc, companies that store content on behalf of their customers, and has the infamous provisions for notice and takedown requirements.
      These people must arrange for an agent to receive DMCA notices, and expeditiously remove content, in order to enjoy that particular safe harbor protection.

      That one is the 512(c) safe harbor.

      This is not the safe harbor that ISPs should rely on.

      ISPs should rely on the 512(a) safe harbor, which does not require having an agent to receive notices of infringing content, and does not require doing anything with such notices, in order to enjoy the protections of this provision.

      Because any copies of the material are "intermediate and transient," there are no notice and takedown procedures

      US Title 17, Chapter 5, Sec 512, (c)
      http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512 " (c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks
      at Direction of Users." versus
      "(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications. ... A service provider
      shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in
      subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for
      infringement of copyright by reason of the provider's transmitting,
      routing, or providing connections for, ...."

      The DMCA doesn't say anything about severing connectivity to computers on a network. That's just what the wronged party wants (if they try to send a notice to an ISP that a user happens to subscribe to, or that their traffic happens to pass through), the collateral damage doesn't effect them, if the ISP cuts off innocent users in the process.

      The current DMCA provides some decent protections for ISPs that don't have unjust requirements like takedown procedures.

      Big **AA organizations ignore this fact, and send notices anyway.

      Because (A) they wished the takedown procedure applied in all cases, or they may even be trying to get the law changed to do that...

      (B) They rely on the misconception; they would like ISPs to think they must disconnect the user immediately on notice.

      (C) They want to minimize the number of "outs" or legal protections any future counterparty might have -- by sending the notice, regardless

      (D) Scare tactic.

  2. Fraud? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So Verizon sold me internet service. Implicit in that is service to all internet hosts.

    Has Verizon criminally defrauded me?

  3. Do they also block goatse? by jonadab · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obviously, Verizon is trying to provide better service for their customers.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  4. rebellion? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Didn't some kid just get three years in jail for participating in an anti-Scientology DoS attack which was organized on 4chan?

    Will that be enough to keep the users in line?

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:rebellion? by santax · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. It will not. Most users are not in the US. Most users will happily participate in an ddos though.

  5. Works From Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was able to connect to boards.4chan.org from a Verizon FiOS connection.

    Sadly, it seems that I have contracted Syphilis.

  6. Misleading Summary by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Informative

    Moot himself said on the 4chan status blog that it's only Verizon Wireless from what they can tell.

    It should be interesting to see the fallout from this. 4channers aren't exactly the paragon of maturity.

    --
    Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
  7. Re:has the blocking stopped by Microlith · · Score: 5, Informative

    What the summary fails to note is that this -only- affects users of Verizon Wireless, namely DROID owners.

  8. Re:has the blocking stopped by eggoeater · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not mentioned in summary: this is only verizon wireless.
    http://status.4chan.org/


    ...

    --
    $7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
  9. Re:I CAN HAZ KITTY PORN? by mdm-adph · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are they also going to block email, then? How about filefront and megaupload?

    Because otherwise it's a hollow reason.

    Not that any reason for censorship isn't hollow.

    --
    It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
  10. Re:I feel split in this matter by harl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Free speech is only free if the speech you hate is free.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.
  11. Works fine for me by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm a FIOS customer and I can get to 4chan just fine at the moment.

  12. Wouldn't want to work at Verizon support right now by ZankerH · · Score: 5, Funny

    "VERIZON YUO HAVE MADE POWERFULL ENIMEY
    ANONIMOUSE IS LEEGON"

    Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like yelling. Filter error:

  13. Re:I feel split in this matter by noidentity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On hand hand this is malignant censorship, the forebode to a society with no free information. On the other hand, this is 4chan.....

    First they came for 4chan, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a 4chan member...

  14. Re:I feel split in this matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine if you will, Verizon blocked Slashdot, and the internet was glad that all those FSF loving Unix-beard hippies would finally shut up about "This is the year of Linux on the desktop" rather than hoping for its return and condemning such censorship. Does that represent a portion of the populace? Sure. But if you loved going there you'd still be upset about not getting it back.

    I love 4chan, I hate /b/, but 4chan as a whole is a unique collection of message boards with a much faster rate of posting than anything else on the internet, its almost part chatroom. The individual boards all have their own culture and sense of humor, and many of them are great sources of discussion and debate (sup /v/).

    Please don't blindly judge 4chan based on /b/ and its stupid memes alone. People got tired of that whole "anonymous is legion" and "lolcat" shit a long time ago.

  15. Re:I feel split in this matter by SilverEyes · · Score: 5, Funny

    On hand hand this is malignant censorship, the forebode to a society with no free information. On the other hand, this is 4chan.....

    First they came for 4chan, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a 4chan member...

    Then they came for... well, they didn't come for anyone else. There wasn't really a good, next logical step in the continuum. The rest of the Internet was safe. Story over.

    --
    Interesting.
  16. Re:Subject to change without notice. by FlyingBishop · · Score: 5, Informative

    Which in no way protects them from a lawsuit.

  17. Re:I feel split in this matter by LoSt180 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Yup, they got one up for you already. According to the Verizon Policy Blog post:

    "Recently, Verizon Wireless security and external experts detected attacks from an IP address associated with the 4Chan family of web sites that was disruptive to our customers and our network. To protect both, we eliminated connectivity to the IP address. At no time was 4Chan itself blocked. Ongoing network security team monitoring has now determined there is no longer an immediate threat. Connectivity to those sites is being restored later today."

  18. Re:I feel split in this matter by kill-1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A DDOS attack originating from port 80 of boards.4chan.org? Think again.

  19. that's not now the quote goes by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Funny

    the correct quote is

    "First they came for 4chan, and I did not speak out--because I was looking at boobies;
    Then they came for fark, and I did not speak out--because I was looking at boobies;
    Then they came for slashdot, and I did not speak out--because I was looking at boobies;
    Then they came for the boobies-and I started building truckbombs, mailing anthrax, and hijacking airplanes."

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  20. Re:I feel split in this matter by metziel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Obligatory Jon Stewart paraphrase: you do realize that, in the original quote, "they came" is actually an euphanism for "round up and kill," right?

    You have my word that when the government starts rounding up and mass-murdering 4chan users, I'll speak up.

  21. Re:I feel split in this matter by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 5, Funny

    Has anybody bothered to find out WHY Verizon took this action?

    For the lulz.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.