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Anti-Piracy Windows 7 Update Phones Home Quarterly
Lauren Weinstein sends in news of a major and disturbing Microsoft anti-piracy initiative called Windows Activation Technologies, or WAT. Here is Microsoft's blog post giving their perspective on what WAT is for. From Lauren's blog: "The release of Windows 7 'Update for Microsoft Windows (KB71033)' will change the current activation and anti-piracy behavior of Windows 7 by triggering automatic 'phone home' operations over the Internet to Microsoft servers, typically for now at intervals of around 90 days. ... These automatic queries will repeatedly — apparently for as long as Windows is installed — validate your Windows 7 system against Microsoft's latest database of pirated system signatures (currently including more than 70 activation exploits known to Microsoft). If your system matches — again even if up to that time (which could be months or even years since you obtained the system) it had been declared to be genuine — then your system will be 'downgraded' to 'non-genuine' status until you take steps to obtain what Microsoft considers to be an authentic, validated, Windows 7 license. ... KB971033... is scheduled to deploy to the manual downloading 'Genuine Microsoft Software' site on February 16, and start pushing out automatically through the Windows Update environment on February 23. ... [F]or Microsoft to assert that they have the right to treat ordinary PC-using consumers in this manner — declaring their systems to be non-genuine and downgrading them at any time — is rather staggering." Update: 02/12 02:08 GMT by KD : Corrected the Microsoft Knowledge Base number to include a leading 9 that had been omitted in the pre-announcement, per L. Weinstein.
I wonder how many false positives this will generate? The thing is, for every person who pirates Windows 7, there is a fairly decent chance that they will be doing so with an activation code which a genuine user may have purchased. I wonder if MS has figured out some way to deal with this issue? I wouldn't bet on it.
Lauren Weinstein sends in news of a major and disturbing Microsoft anti-piracy initiative called Windows Activation Technologies, or WAT.
Microsoft Phone Support: Thank you for calling Microsoft, all calls may be monitored for training purposes and to ensure quality of service. Now, what seems to be the problem ... ... ? Sir, you have to give me more information.
Customer: That's right.
*pause*
Microsoft Phone Support:
Customer: I'll tell you my problem. WAT is my problem.
Microsoft Phone Support: Sir, I don't know the answer to that question, you haven't told me yet.
Customer: I didn't ask you a question.
Microsoft Phone Support: Then why did you call? Why do you need help?
Customer: WAT's wrong. I can't activate Windows 7 but I just bought it!
Microsoft Phone Support: Okay, let's try to diagnose this problem. What's wrong?
Customer: Yes, I already said that, I know WAT is wrong! That is precisely why I called!
Microsoft Phone Support: Wait, why are you calling?
Customer: WAT!
Microsoft Phone Support: I said, why are you calling?!
Customer: WAT! WAT, GODDAMNIT, WAT!!!
My work here is dung.
WAT? WATTF!
Like serial numbers, product keys, and activation before, automatic auditing like WGA is proving not to be as effective as Microsoft would like... this is surveillance plain and simple. Looks like I'm going to need to update my article on problems with non-free software... (Free Software or: How I Learned...).
I wonder how many false positives this will generate?
Probably no more than Windows XP, whose "Windows Genuine Advantage" module has the same behavior.
Looks like the Win7 upgrade is off the table for me. Dual-booting XP & Kubuntu for the foreseeable future!
There is a war going on for your mind.
...skip update KB71033.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
I have a machine, purchased by my employer that has to be validated against the key server at the office.
The machine however is at my house. The only way to make it validate is to ensure that I'm connected to the VPN when it attempts to find its key.
Does this mean once a quarter (if I have this update) my machine will downgrade itself, make me hop on the VPN, revalidate etc.?
That's just damn annoying. I'll probably end up cracking my legit install to stop this stupid behavior. When the cracked version of your software is less obnoxious than the legitimate version you have a problem.
I don't see how this is in any way news or shocking. WAT = rebranded WGA.
The only major question I would have, is if it's only calling back every 90 days, how many false positives will it get from people doing major hardware upgrades over that three month span. (I'm assuming it compares the system specs with the license key as WGA did to determine if it was actually the same computer or not)
And at least they just downgrade you - they could instead just shut your system down for a suspected license violation and prevent any log-ins.
Ok, conspiracy theorist point of view here, apologies... but... I mean, they can basically disable/cripple anyone's computer for any reason without notice.
Think of what governments would like to do with this little feature, during wartimes, etc...
Do you really trust Microsoft that much? Do you really want them to have that much control over your computer at any point in time? Your ability to communicate online?
Come on, this is really getting ridiculous.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
You could manage to avoid WGA by unchecking the checkbox when it asked to install via update, then making sure it didn't mention un-selected updates. I wonder if judicious users can keep an eye out for this and do the same?
...they want their mainframes back. This is not unlike IBM charging for use of their hardware and software on a per cycle basis. One of the people I worked with back in the 90s remembers earlier models of mainframes actually had mechanical car-like odometers that were read by a "meter reader" like the gas company, and IBM would send them a bill.
And it is a guarantee that enterprising individuals will come up with a solution to WAT as my former co-worker did; crack the box and reset the numbers. Not enough to arouse suspicion, but just enough that they wouldn't be charged for a huge end-of-month load on the processor.
Looks like I'm going to need to update my article on problems with non-free software
I read your article. It already mentions WGA, and the auditing explained in the article is Son of WGA. But as far as I can tell, one of the big reasons to run Windows 7 instead of Brown Debian is video games. As I understand it, free software developers have historically not done a good job of making those as proprietary software developers. Part of that has to do with the lack of a high-profile free meshes/textures/audio community.
Someone who needs application software for which there is no reasonable Linux/Unix equivalent. Such software includes mid-range accounting systems and point of sale systems.
Windows would be so much better without Microsoft.
My webcomic
The false positives will turn into real positives. When a machine gets marked as non-genuine, it stops receiving updates. Which means is WILL get 0wned by the next zero-day attack.
They are basically just manufacturing more spambot machines with this strategy.
If you buy a computer with windows on it you own the hardware. You never own the software. You license it on the condition that you agree to the EULA. Microsoft's EULA states that you give up all rights, they are not accountable for anything.
Microsoft users have been and will always be slaves to the evil empire.
And this is a nice little wake up call to those folks, telling them to get busy on their Linux port. Again yet more poor strategic planning.
That means I have at most 90 days left!
I'll start spinning counter-clockwise.
In soviet russia the government regulates the companies.
Steps like these need to be taken because, well, people pretty much can not be trusted to do the right thing without the fear of a reprisal looming over their head.
The problem with steps like these is that they will mostly cause problems for people who tried to do the right thing by buying Windows 7 legitimately but now Microsoft identifies it as a pirate key (either because they got it from a shady character who was selling illegal copies with some pirated key, or because the legitmate key they got has since been pirated--or at least identified as pirated). People who knowingly are using a pirated copy will either have developed a work around that avoids this problem, or will be expecting this to come up and have a plan in place to deal with it.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
//Microsoft Employee here//
If you read the blog post it has some valid points about how it works:
1. Voluntary patch :)
2. When non-genuine copies deteced, OS functionality is NOT reduced
3. Yes, Microsoft does decided to notify/annoy you that you're not using genuine software which is a good thing because most people don't know they are.
4. The goal is reduce the number of Windows installations using pirated copies many of which include malicious code.
5. No personally identifiable information is transmitted. Details on this can be found in ANY of our privacy policies which are standard across all Microsoft products.
6. It does not apply to any enterprise installations where Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) is used. @FranTaylor, lots of people use Windows on a server...what planet are you one?
The slashdot headline is a little too Orwellian considering the body of the blog post. Looking forward to all the responses...I think.
What happens if the domain name and IP addresses used for validation are null-routed?
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6uZNz3i1g
Microsoft Licensing, MOTHER FUCKER, do you speak it?
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Who in their right mind would use Windows on a server any more?
Who in their right mind puts windows on a server anyway? Crazy people and masochists, that's who.
Funny how this is happening right after Microsoft won that lawsuit regarding WGA.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Let me see if I understand this correctly. When I finally migrate to Win 7, I will download a cracked copy with all annoying and useless crap stripped out, that fast installs and does not have this call home program in it. So explain how again this stops piracy?
In a word, yes. Microsoft is concentrating entirely too much on a market that is simply not as large as they think it is - namely, the people who a) currently pirate Microsoft software and b) would pay for Microsoft software if pirating it was too difficult. This is a vanishingly small group of people, and in order to get these people to buy Microsoft software they are adversely affecting everyone who buys Microsoft software.
Further, this means of verifying that Windows 7 installations will simply not work. Microsoft is being nice and packaging it in one update, which means that what this update does and how it works will be easily reverse engineered. Once the pirates know how it works, there are a ridiculous number of ways to circumvent it at every step of the process - it would be relatively easy to intercept the downgrade command coming from the server, or change the downgrade routine so that it does nothing, or spoof the current signature with a known-good one (and if Microsoft bans that, they'll be banning every single legitimate user with that signature), or to do any number of other things that would be come apparent after reverse-engineering the update.
So yes, Microsoft shouldn't do anything - because doing nothing is better than wasting money and goodwill on something useless.
Someone who needs application software for which there is no reasonable Linux/Unix equivalent. Such software includes mid-range accounting systems and point of sale systems.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Windows isn't going away until Sage come out with a Linux version
Essentially we don't buy anything anymore. Everyone out there seems to have control of my computer but me. Yes I can spend the time and disable some of the functions but it's constant cold war of disabling the latest functions only to get hit with the next round. I want to use software not fight OSs. Also I'm tired of fighting software licensing, period. I'm not from the camp that wants free software I pay for every piece, except I do love some open source like Open Office. The point is why do I constantly have to deal updates? My bloody HP Printer driver constantly demands to be updated. I'm not stupid and I know they aren't releasing updates that fast. Many of pay thousands of dollars just for our desk top let alone software and yet everyone insists they should have control of our machines at all times. 10, 15, 20 years ago this was not the case. 15 years ago due to corruption issues I used to reinstall my OS and all software once a month. The machine ran better and the software crashed less. It took me a couple of hours and gave me a fresh machine each time. These days I live in terror of redoing a machine. I have a lot of software and at best we're talking days and generally it's weeks before I can get all the licenses squared away again. It's reached the point where I dread buying a new machine.
Forgive me if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer, but I am not a Windows person. How does this work when the machine is not connected to the internet? Say, sequestered on it's own network, but not leaving the room.
All the people who made products you may or may not have in your house just want to stop by once a quarter to make sure they get paid for what they produce. You can't just expect them to do nothing and hope that you'll be nice and pay them. Those books you picked up at the "clearing out old stuff event" at the library? The authors deserve to get paid for what they produce. Representatives for Mr. King will be over shortly to conduct an audit. If you are found to be out of compliance, they will rip out all but the first chapter. You can use the 'downgraded' copy to decide if you want to make a full purchase.
Why does this sound so familiar? Customers are considered thieves as a general rule? Oh thats right, RIAA Playbook and guideline for the Music industry, page 2, "How to treat Customers". Now,if there is a malfunction, we, the consumers, will be forced to take measures to prove to Microsoft that our systems are genuine? Give me a break. The sad thing is 99% of the general public will never hear about this until some server glitch causes their system to stop functioning normally and they have to call Microsoft(and how many will have to bungle through M$ofts cludge of a tech support center and pay for support for fixing Msofts problem). Call me skeptical as we know M$oft has a perfect track record of bug free software and nothing like that could ever happen. More to the point is the nerve of them for expecting consumers to put up with them probing our systems.
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
It nags the non computer-elite into picking up your tab, and hating your for it.
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
Trusted Windows Activation Technologies
Bitter and twisted, DON'T ever FORGET the TWISTED
Every time I don't have an Internet connection,win7 informs me within a few minutes that I "may not be running a legitimate copy". The link it provides to "resolve" this is a essentially a "buy win7 now" page. Without fail a few minutes after the Internet connection is restored, the warning goes away and the desktop watermark accusing me of piracy also disappears again.
I'm actually more than a little peeved about being called a thief every time I resume my session from suspend -- during the few seconds it takes to reconnect -- or use my laptop out of range of my wireless. But my point is that if it wasn't phoning home, it wouldn't be telling me this *only* when there was no Internet connection; and it wouldn't stop telling me *only* when my connection was restored.
Of course, no matter how peeved I am - as long as it doesn't get in my way, it's not worth waiting on hold for 20 minutes of my life to get a solution which may or may not resolve it.
Who in their right mind would use Windows on a server any more?
Folks who've spent their entire lives working on a Windows GUI and can't imagine a computer without a Start menu or a C: drive.
We're a Microsoft shop... That's generally what we sell and install, including servers. Myself, I don't much care what we run. I'm familiar with various flavors of *nix and support them as well. My boss, on the other hand, can't deal with anything non-Windows.
You should have seen his face the first time he sat down in front of a machine running XenServer. He had no freaking clue what to do with it. He kept shaking the mouse around and looking puzzled.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Virus? I believe you mean "urgent security update".
i've been reading and posting here a long time, and i don't remember anyone coming right out and saying "microsoft employee here"
i never expected someone to rip off their clothes, douse themselves in a1 steak sauce, and walk into the hyena enclosure
you are very brave sir
how well read is slashdot at microsoft?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You know that clause in your EULA that states that if they cannot take away a certain right, by law, the rest of the EULA is still binding?
I wonder why they need that clause...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
The problem is that... well... it doesn't work the way they say it does.
I have a legit copy of Win7 Ultimate, received directly from MS at the Win7 launch event. Installed in October, not genuine on November 1st. Called, got reactivated. Not genuine on December 1st. Called, got reactivated. Not genuine on January 1st. Installed WGA crack. February 11th, still "genuine".
It's been legit all along, and I only had a problem with it until I used the same method used by pirates.
This does NOT affect piracy and it never will. It does, however, ensure that I will be attending every Microsoft OS launch event in order to never give them another red cent, eat their free food, and get my free copy of their shiny new toy.
If I had paid for this, I'd be outraged. Knowing that it WILL happen IF I pay means I'll NEVER pay. Period.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
One of my college professors told me this:
"I left windows years ago, and ever since that day I've just found more reasons not to go back."
I switched to linux a few years back, and I feel much the same. I still boot up into windows just to play some games, but more and more I find myself playing less games and spending less money on them. I know that's not the ideal for some, but I'm pretty happy.
>
Looks like you Mac folks will probably get Starcraft 2, I'm a bit jealous.
I would run OSX... but I can't bend over that far.
What happens when MS stop supporting windows 7 and turn the activation servers off?
Does that mean it will become useless 90 days afterwards?
What about for machines which aren't networked, or are on isolated networks which can't or aren't allowed to access the internet?
If they provide a corporate version which doesn't need to phone home, then pirates will simply pirate that instead, just like they did with the corporate versions of xp that didn't need activation.
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